vLSO Beta release

[Paddles]

I'll email you an audio file for "clara lineup", I have one.

Thanks! Got it. Added it. It works!  By the way, during my 'Clara lineup' tests I scored (by chance) an OK3 

[GOONIE]

Thanks! Got it. Added it. It works!  By the way, during my 'Clara lineup' tests I scored (by chance) an OK3 

Maybe the LSO's were "CLARA" when grading your approach! 

[Paddles]

Not sure - someone kept repeating 'On glideslope... On glideslope...' 

Ok, I have a question. What time to use for LIG (long in the groove) comments? I suppose the times may differ for various aircraft?

[GOONIE]

Actually that was a pretty spot on approach! I would have given you an OK3 since you never saw the ball with the Clara call!

LIG I agree should be aircraft dependent (approach speed) and wind dependent, and apply only to CASE I recoveries. For the Hornet I thought the goal was ~18 seconds in the groove, assumes rolling into the groove at 3/4 of a mile. Is that right? So anything over 22 or 24 seconds could be LIG? Just a guess. Doubt the LSO watches the clock, but it is probably pretty apparent when you roll into the groove at over a mile distance, and take you sweet time to get to the ramp.

GOONIE

[pyroperson87]

The times definitely vary by aircraft.  As per the NATOPS for the F-18C/D as well as the F-18E/F, groove times should be between 15 and 18 seconds.  Given the limitations of FSX however, I'm not sure that the 15-18 seconds in the groove will give pleasing results with vLSO...just my honest opinion.  I second Goonie...LIG after 22-24 seconds.  Most of my passes if I roll wings level into the groove just at 3/4 of a mile are somewhere between 20 and 22 seconds.  IRL it is my understanding that a lot of the more experienced guys are just past the 45 when calling the ball and actually don't roll into the groove until closer to 1/2 of a mile.  I believe there are some youtube videos that support this, I think from username Ian Schmidt.  I'm at work right now so I can't find the few specific instances I'm thinking of.

[SpazSinbad]

Perhaps this is the video being referred to as the 21 second groove?

As an aside I was lucky enough to be able to use the mirror which allowed easy 'fly the ball' from just after the '180' as you americans say. Being with a bunch of old timers from the Sea Venom era initially our day carrier circuits were at 400 feet. Our low level day circuit at NAS Nowra was 300 feet (no lower - not viable) in the A4G Skyhawk. The Venom pilots were given assistance by their Observer in the right hand seat who called the airspeed at one knot intervals I believe, or repeated the same airspeed regularly, so that the Venom pilot could look out and not inside at the airspeed indicator (they had no aural or visual indication otherwise). Things were different in some UK RN Venoms I'm told, which apparently had an aural tone for being at optimum airspeed. Anyway I did not fly the Venom from HMAS Melbourne, only ashore at NAS Nowra, without an Observer, so that I had to look inside for airspeed - a real pain around base turn etc. What this bad view for the Venom pilot meant was that a short groove was ideal from a low circuit (reminiscent of the old prop days). However in this era of Venoms/Gannets there was no LSO aboard HMAS Melbourne. BLISS!  

All our day circuits were done visually, even though we had TACAN it was not as accurate as the TACAN in use today. We were used to it so making the extra height caused quite a different picture downwind but of course we had a better slant view of the carrier also.

Long story short we flew these 400 foot day A4G carrier circuits, flying the ball as soon as we could see it in the mirror, consequently the groove length was short, not allowing too many pilot errors. It was quite an adjustment when the USN trained LSOs convinced our old timer CO to use the NATOPS 600 foot day carrier circuit height, usually meaning groove length longer. I cannot recall how long it was except we were expected to have tight circuits with short grooves. Anyway on with the show.... I'll make an excerpt of the groove to put online.

F/A-18 Super Hornet Carrier Flight (2012) Published on Jan 7, 2013  

"AIRBOYD: Courtesy Video Defense Media Activity - Navy | Produced by Petty Officer 2nd Class James Evans.
Lt. Michael Loringer, assigned to Strike Fighter Squadron 22, pilots an F/A-18F Super Hornet during a mission flown from the flight deck of the Nimitz class aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson. USS Carl Vinson and Carrier Air Wing 17 are deployed to the U.S. 5th Fleet area of responsibility."

JUST THE GROOVE FROM THE START....

[pyroperson87]

Spaz,

That looked to me like Case II/III ops with that low cloud deck and rain, in which case groove time isn't a grading factor AFAIK.

The video I'm referring to actually shows the opposite, and extremely SHORT groove time.  It's HUD footage showing him just crossing the wake at 3/4 of a mile and rolling into the groove at about .5 or .6, which yields a much shorter groove time than 15 seconds.

EDIT: I rewatched the clip...not sure how I thought that could have been Case III.  Could still be Case II though.

[SpazSinbad]

Fair enough. It will be nice to see the short groove clip whenever it is found.

[pyroperson87]

I found one example.  The footage is split into two segments unfortunately. First watch at about the 1:21 mark for a bit after crossing the wake, not in the groove yet, TCN distance shows .6 on the HUD already. Then some more footage from the same pass can be seen at about 1:43, settled in the groove, .5 on the HUD.  I'm sure you or someone might think "how do you know that's from the same trap?"  I'll concede that I am making assumptions, but they are based off of a few things: Max G load shown on the HUD for both clips is 6.3, carrier is on the same heading in both clips, and the time of day appears consistent.  Feel free to dispute my claim if you see anything that I am missing that indicates those are two separate traps.

Either way, enjoy the clip!

EDIT: Apparently I suck at HTML (not a big surprise to me) so here is the link:

[SpazSinbad]

Your link is invalid. Is this to the world famous '$hitHotBreak' Video? Somehow this video is blocked. I have a copy so I'll look at the segments you describe. Already I have made a short clip from same video showing the control movements. Is this clip from the same video you look at (but we cannot see)?

EDIT Addition
'pyroperson87' has provided the direct link which will be encapsulated in "youtube" html brackets below:

Nope - does not work with standard youtube bracketed HTML - I have read this video is banned due to the songs perhaps - maybe the $shit bit? Dunno.

[pyroperson87]

One and the same!

[Paddles]

I think this is the video

My observations on this approach:

video 0:48, HUD time 07:41:05, speed 575 - carrier abeam, break begins
video 2:01, HUD time 07:41:36, speed 210, 1.2 nm - landing gears go down
video 2:30, 0.5 nm - wings level, on glideslope, on lineup
video 2:42 - touchdown and trap

So, it took him some 30 sec to bleed airspeed and to arrive to somewhere between the 180 and the 90 (I'd call it 120, according to HUD tape readouts). The actual groove time, if we only consider it starts when the plane is wing level, will be some 12 sec, which is very short.  

I'd grade it as a perfect pass, since there were no glideslope and lineup deviations and that was a good sample of an expeditious recovery.

PS. A good LSO reading, by the way

[SpazSinbad]

What a good video (understatement). I will guess the pilot is flying the ball during the turn and he is spot on (notwithstanding the camera position compared to his eyeball position). From long ago memory that would be about the time in the groove for an A4G flying the 'mirror' ball during the turn etc. By the end of a cruise if you are not nailing the day approaches - you should go home. 

[pyroperson87]

I've seen that clip before, it's definitely an interesting one.  Note that he has the 9 Mike still selected until it is overridden by the gear going down.  Also, I noted something I have never seen before...At about 2:04 a solid dot appears on the lower left of the HUD and then by 2:07 it's gone.  It doesn't look like a waypoint indicator, but it definitely looks ground stabilized...anyone know what it is? 

It's also interesting to see the inaccuracies of the needles in close and at the ramp, and particularly how different they are on each ship.  Take note of the needles at 0.1 AD...glideslope needle goes HIGH and lineup needles goes LEFT.  Now compare that to the HUD footage from $hit Hot Break.  At 0.1 the glideslope needle goes LOW and lineup needle stays nearly dead center on the velocity vector.  Pretty significant difference.

And definitely a short groove time.  It is my understanding that the ball is visible and useable (i.e. shows accurate g/s info) from about the 130 which is how these guys are rolling into the groove already at 1/2 of a mile.

Are there any plans to incorporate this into vLSO?  I'm not sure of the programming hurdles you would have to get past in order to get vLSO NOT to wave you off or give you a poor grade if you aren't already on centerline by the time you call the ball.  Not that it matters if it WERE a part of vLSO...I can barely get it right when I roll into the groove at .8! 

[Paddles]

Are there any plans to incorporate this into vLSO? 

Yes, it's already on my to-do list, by Goonie's request