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General Category => Unofficial F/A-18 Acceleration Pack board => Topic started by: Paddles on October 29, 2011, 06:28:46 pm

Title: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on October 29, 2011, 06:28:46 pm
Well guys...
The Beta 0.8.2.7 is here (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3pFCe8B4_FGSWxmVkdETXRFMDg/view?usp=sharing) (full package)

To install the program unzip this archive (keeping its internal folder structure) to a temp folder and read the manual.

What's new?

0.1b
More grades. All the grades, actually.
Totally new approach data acquisition and evaluation system.
More eyecandies and user interface improvements (handwritten logbook for example)
Manual ball call option for you, hardcore simmers.
Additional views in the CarrierTrials mission (PLAT, paddles and Air boss)
No more areas and triggers in missions. I encourage you to test the program with any FSX carrier missions available.

0.2b
The LSO talking control has been replaced with two separate controls:
Less annoying LSO speed calls (now at least 1.5 sec for continuous speed deviation).
Following aircraft now fully supported:
The abeam issue has been addressed

0.3b
A PDF manual added (at last), just read it.  ;D

0.4b

0.5b

0.6b

0.6.3.7b

0.6.4.0b

0.6.5.0b

0.7.0.0b

0.7.0.2b

0.7.1.0b

0.7.1.2b

0.8.0.0b

0.8.1.0b

0.8.1.1b

0.8.1.2b
A 'Range check error', occured when flying around an FCLP area, has been corrected.
Some small cosmetic changes.

0.8.2.0b

0.8.2.0b

0.8.2.2b

0.8.2.5b

0.8.2.6b

0.8.2.7b

Happy landings!  ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Ost on October 29, 2011, 06:53:54 pm
Thanks a lot !

Ost
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on October 29, 2011, 09:34:07 pm
Serge,

Great improvements from the Alpha version, thanks a lot, it has made a happy Saturday morning for me. I really like the new logbook. I also appreciate that after a "Wave Off" signal, you can still land and look at the analysis of your flight.
I don't get the "Abeam" signal, maybe I have been flying too high after taking off.
One question though, and it might not be possible in the mission environment, but is there a possibility to control the clock and reset the time back, so that using FS Recorder I can replay a flight?
Thanks again, beautiful job.

Johan

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on October 29, 2011, 09:58:17 pm
Serge,

Awesome bud! Really looking forward to trying out the beta this weekend. Can you explain more how the manual ball call works? Or how it is implemented? Thanks for all your efforts!

-Capt
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: MikeB54 on October 30, 2011, 01:15:39 am
Excellent!  Now I just have to hope my power stays on long enough to go flying.  Can someone remind me why I moved back to the Northeast?  LOL

Mike
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on October 30, 2011, 04:26:09 am
Can you explain more how the manual ball call works? Or how it is implemented?

It's pretty simple (I guess)  ;)
If you take a look at the vLSO.ini file, you'll notice that a new section has been added. Particularly there's a new parameter - ManualBallKey. By default it's commented out, that's why the manual ball button on the vLSO main window is disabled.
First, you have to have an unassigned FSX function/key. Or you can reassign an already used function/key. It's up to you. Well, in my case I use the 'water rudder' command, because I don't use any water rudders in the Hornet. So, the ManualBallKey is set to TOGGLE_WATER_RUDDER. I took this string from the http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc526980.aspx (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc526980.aspx) table under the 'Aircraft Miscellaneous Systems'. If you choose other function, you'll need to locate it on that page, copy its SimConnect name from the 'String Name' column and replace the ManualBallKey value. Don't forget to uncomment this parameter.
Now, when you start the vLSO, you'll see that the manual ball button now is enabled and you can push it to toggle this mode on/off.
You can use this function if your aircraft is at 3/4 NM or closer from the ramp.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on October 30, 2011, 06:49:55 pm
Serge...

Installed and flew a few times. Looks good so far... will try to fly alot tonight and get you more detailed feedback. I'll try the MANUAL "ball call" and see how it works.

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on October 30, 2011, 08:07:08 pm
The program seems to work outside of a mission context, just in free flight, with Javier's AC even at a stop in the bay...
Great!
Thanks again Serge,

Johan
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on October 30, 2011, 10:30:12 pm
Serge,

Really enjoy the new beta release! The additional grades and the ability to manually call the ball are great! I've assigned the manual call button to my throttle (comm thumb button) and can call the ball when rolling into the groove which adds to the realism. I also like the wave off debrief graphics, and extra eye candy like where you call the ball and get waved off. I also noticed my hookup passes were correctly labeled as T/Gs and not bolters, awesome.

Couple questions, can you clarify what is the difference is between the moderate and meduim vLSO calls? Not sure what calls drop off at each level. I think I understand full and zip lip. Also when does the clock start for groove time? When you manually call the ball? I got 13 seconds, with a tight turn and calling the ball IM. Are all the LSO calls implemented from the Sound's folder? How do you get a "very nice" call?  ;) Finally what is the difference between a wave off and wave off pattern? Is one worse?

Two things I noticed which might need tweaking, first is the speed sensitivity and grading. I understand you have to be on speed, but some of my passes I am getting a little fast in the LSO write up grade, but the debrief visualization line is yellow. Not sure what is going on here, maybe I had a yellow dougnut and red chevron at the same time. Second is the PLAT camera is slightly off from the PLAT cross hair guage, or at least it looks that way on my display.

Well I will keep testing and flying, these were just some of my initial feedback and thoughts, really awesome job!!!  ;D

-CAPT
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on October 31, 2011, 12:13:44 am
Tested vLSO it works good except is there going to be a setting for the T45 and the F/A-18E?




Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on October 31, 2011, 12:16:29 am
Yes its me landing and no I'm not perfect, but I've made worse approaches. ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on October 31, 2011, 03:56:19 am
The program seems to work outside of a mission context, just in free flight, with Javier's AC even at a stop in the bay...

Suitability for any carrier missions, with Javier's or FSX carrier, either moving or stationary, is one of my goals.
You can test the vLSO with one of the FSX carrier missions, or with the TGS missions. Just rename their Sound folders to something like Sound.bak, or you'll hear the vLSO and those missions' voice calls overlapped...  :)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: micro on October 31, 2011, 04:11:46 am
Serge, while I do appreciate the freeware you are kind enough to give us, you have the potential to make a LOT of money with your skills. I just tried it out and it is phenomenal. Amazing work.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on October 31, 2011, 04:54:33 am
I agree I've tested it with the Sludge and also T45 works with both but not VRS SH. Is there plans to add support to SH and F-14 etc in the future?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on October 31, 2011, 05:08:54 am
SUBS17,
Currently the vLSO supports both the default and Sludge F-18A Hornets, Dino's T-45C Goshawk, Dino's F-14D Tomcat and KAHU A-4G Skyhawk. It also should support VRS Super Hornet... Please, can you tell me what's the value of ATC_MODEL parameter under [General] section in your VRS SH's Aircraft.cfg file? AFAIK it should read F18E.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on October 31, 2011, 05:10:44 am
...can you clarify what is the difference is between the moderate and meduim vLSO calls? Not sure what calls drop off at each level. I think I understand full and zip lip.

Good question!  :) This abundance might really confuse people. I agree that it's better to get rid of these four levels and leave only two - FULL and ZIP-LIP. However, why not to add another switch (or a pair of buttons) instead, setting how 'tough' is the vLSO, say Nugget and CAG. This way, when in Nugget mode, the vLSO could be very talkative and more forgiving, but when in CAG mode the vLSO would be less talking but less forgiving at the same time. What's your opinion?  ;)

Quote from: capthaltli
Also when does the clock start for groove time? When you manually call the ball? I got 13 seconds, with a tight turn and calling the ball IM.

The clock starts when you call the ball, either manually or automatically.

Quote from: capthaltli
Are all the LSO calls implemented from the Sound's folder? How do you get a "very nice" call?

Yes, all the calls are from the Sound folder. And, as you noticed, there are some calls that are not implemented yet. I reserved them for future use. Maybe.  ;D

Quote from: capthaltli
Finally what is the difference between a wave off and wave off pattern? Is one worse?

Don't really know which one worse. The NAVAIR 00-80T-104 specifies both WO and WOP as LSO symbols without any explanations. I found this call on a T45 clip, and just modeled the same situation, so when you keep approaching high and not descending you may get WOP. Both WO and WOP currently score one point. If someone has more info on this, it would be awesome...

Quote from: capthaltli
Two things I noticed which might need tweaking, first is the speed sensitivity and grading. I understand you have to be on speed, but some of my passes I am getting a little fast in the LSO write up grade, but the debrief visualization line is yellow. Not sure what is going on here, maybe I had a yellow dougnut and red chevron at the same time.

Right, that's because you had a doughnut and red chevron at the same time. This means you AoA was somewhere between 6.9-7.4. The debrief line gets red when the AoA is less than 7.4. Should I change it to 6.9? Or maybe to something like 7.1, halfway to pure red chevron?

Quote from: capthaltli
Second is the PLAT camera is slightly off from the PLAT cross hair guage, or at least it looks that way on my display.

I didn't even attempt to sync the PLAT camera and the PLAT gauge. I just put the camera in a point where deck centerline and datum lights plane cross.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on October 31, 2011, 08:07:21 am
Serge...

Wow, this is such a great program, I dont know where to start. Great job!! The addition of the MANUAL Ball Call, along with the ability to use OUTSIDE of missions in FREE FLIGHT just kicks the doors in! I have a test setup where I can take off from Miramar, head out and catch some traps on a Javier-based carrier (carrier tracks 1 and 2, ai traffic), then go do some tanking afterwards. Needless to say, the tanker went to Vegas on his own this night. No time for him today. Was smiling like I won the lotto when I did an ICLS approach and made the ball call at 3/4 mile... then greeted back with Roger, ball, and responses.

OK, some observations, now that I'm coming back down to earth.

My input would be for 3 levels: Nugget - ALL COMMS; Fleet - Ball Call, big corrections ("lined up LEFT", "youre high"), safety of flight; CAG - Ball Call, safety of flight ONLY ("POWER, POWER!!", "WAVEOFF, WAVEOFF!!").

What are the parameters for the Abeam? 590-610 ft and 1.2-1.5 NM TCN? What's your baseline number and margin of error? I'm asking, so I know what to fly.

And here's my problem with the Ball Call distance. When I called the first ball, in-flight/on-HUD it was 0.7NM, but the vLSO GS/LU screens had me at approx 3900'.

Finally, the last problem is that I keep getting the "youre low" when I'm crossing the threshold over the rounddown and into the wires. Is there a way you can shut off ALL COMMS at that point? Maybe WAVEOFF, but if you are that close in, I think WAVEOFF would be dangerous? Just my opinion there, but I think the glideslope gets too sensitive when it gets close that it over-reads the glideslope and calls "low" even though I'm cresting the ball (one ball high) into the wires.

I can take some pics of this if you want?

Again though, minor criticisms, just helping you perfect the best! Great program, friend!!

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Orion on October 31, 2011, 08:16:37 am
Heh, Sludge, nice approach! ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on October 31, 2011, 08:22:02 am
Orion...

Thanks but I was all over the damn place, you should see my REAL approaches. Have you tried the vLSO yet? Its tough but the coolest part is now you can do it on any carrier and it responds, its friggin awesome.

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Orion on October 31, 2011, 11:12:04 am
Nope, haven't had a chance yet.  When I do, though, I'll probably manage to set the record for worst approach and quickest wave off. :P  Haven't flown the Hornet for a while.

Edit: Even though I probably shouldn't be wasting my time this early in the morning with school later...  I gave it a shot anyways.  I pretty much crashed. :P

If you want to see the horrifying video of me crashing...
&hd=1 (much worse than my pitching deck landing, if that's any reference)

Edit 2: That's about as close as the drunk flying I see from others sometimes, I think (previous edit was at 3:30 AM).  Sleep deprived flying. :P
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on October 31, 2011, 04:59:58 pm
Orion...

That was far better than I've seen alot of approaches. And AR, you stuck with using power to control RoD (as you should) and tried keeping the W on the 5.

However, in light of your "drunk driving", you should go by your new callsign "Drunken Master" (or DM for short) and use this image as your avatar. The heading reads: "Don't cross his path when he's drunk."  ;D  All you'd have to do it change it to read: "Don't cross his FLIGHT path when he's drunk." I know that one guy in multi (forgot his name, "you're supposed to have a STERILE cockpit") could use it too, as he drank alot during our sessions and got really cranky, but I thought you could get it first.

Later
Sludge

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: micro on October 31, 2011, 05:11:40 pm
Just flew a couple of patterns in Dino's T-45 and found a curious thing. I'm on speed most of the time but the LSO constantly telling me I'm fast. I took this vid of a lap I did:



And here is the debrief:
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on October 31, 2011, 05:13:13 pm
Orion...

BTW, I see you got 16 secs in the groove. Did you do a full pattern or a straight in approach? Reason I'm asking is that I have done both but cant get it under 20. I see that you have 25 kts of WoD, think I'm gonna change it and see what happens. The one thing that this vLSO program does well now, is make you fly a good pattern (abeam, rollout, and time in groove)... and I've been working on that all the time.

Did you use your SF Carrier mission?

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on October 31, 2011, 05:23:21 pm
Micro...

Seriously dude, you suck. That's the smoothest pattern I've ever seen. Did you actually fly that from the backseat? You could easily superimpose your video with the REAL WORLD Y/T "Lap around the boat" T-45 video and there would be very little difference. The abeam turn was nice and easy and the turn to final was buttah. You were all but setup for a OK 3 pass from the start.

I'm guessing the approach is still F-18 centric. I think you can use a T-45 but it still gives you F-18 speed calls? Thats just an outside observation, you'll have to wait for Serge's final verdict.

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on October 31, 2011, 09:36:08 pm
micro as Sludge is saying 'a very good video'. The video is very atmospheric also with the views outside suggesting it was a completely visual circuit/approach. I don't have sound to guess that that is good also? BZ. A great example of what can be done in FSX carrier landings.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on October 31, 2011, 09:45:34 pm
Good question!  :) This abundance might really confuse people. I agree that it's better to get rid of these four levels and leave only two - FULL and ZIP-LIP. However, why not to add another switch (or a pair of buttons) instead, setting how 'tough' is the vLSO, say Nugget and CAG. This way, when in Nugget mode, the vLSO could be very talkative and more forgiving, but when in CAG mode the vLSO would be less talking but less forgiving at the same time. What's your opinion?  ;)

I like Sludge's suggestion, three settings: Nugget, Fleet, CAG.

Right, that's because you had a doughnut and red chevron at the same time. This means you AoA was somewhere between 6.9-7.4. The debrief line gets red when the AoA is less than 7.4. Should I change it to 6.9? Or maybe to something like 7.1, halfway to pure red chevron?

Does anyone know how real world LSO's grade AoA (on speed)? Do they grade speed at the 0.1 degree level of AoA? I am not an LSO, but I would assume they use the AoA indexer on the nose gear and also aircraft attitude. Using that logic, the cockpit AoA indexer could show a yellow doughnut and red chevron at the same time when the nose gear AoA indexer would only show yellow (I think this is correct). Here is a picture showing AoA varies during the approach with the ultimate goal of being on speed. What do others think or does anyone have any real world input?

-CAPT

 

 
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on October 31, 2011, 10:43:15 pm
SUBS17,
Currently the vLSO supports both the default and Sludge F-18A Hornets, Dino's T-45C Goshawk, Dino's F-14D Tomcat and KAHU A-4G Skyhawk. It also should support VRS Super Hornet... Please, can you tell me what's the value of ATC_MODEL parameter under [General] section in your VRS SH's Aircraft.cfg file? AFAIK it should read F18E.

Yes it shows atc_model=F18E
Now where can I find the Kahu I'll have to take that for a spin.
I'll do another test later today BTW regarding the ball would it call Rhino ball for an F?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Orion on October 31, 2011, 11:49:16 pm
Orion...

That was far better than I've seen alot of approaches. And AR, you stuck with using power to control RoD (as you should) and tried keeping the W on the 5.

However, in light of your "drunk driving", you should go by your new callsign "Drunken Master" (or DM for short) and use this image as your avatar. The heading reads: "Don't cross his path when he's drunk."  ;D  All you'd have to do it change it to read: "Don't cross his FLIGHT path when he's drunk." I know that one guy in multi (forgot his name, "you're supposed to have a STERILE cockpit") could use it too, as he drank alot during our sessions and got really cranky, but I thought you could get it first.

Later
Sludge
Hehe, thanks.  Must be my actual flight lessons rubbing off on my virtual flying. ;D  I'm sure I can do better, though.  I'll post another pass when I get time.

Thanks for the callsign suggestion, but I'll leave that for ATPJET, since he's the actual drunken pilot master. :P  I've actually picked out a new callsign for next time we're flying multiplayer carrier ops. 8)

Orion...

BTW, I see you got 16 secs in the groove. Did you do a full pattern or a straight in approach? Reason I'm asking is that I have done both but cant get it under 20. I see that you have 25 kts of WoD, think I'm gonna change it and see what happens. The one thing that this vLSO program does well now, is make you fly a good pattern (abeam, rollout, and time in groove)... and I've been working on that all the time.

Did you use your SF Carrier mission?

Later
Sludge
I tried doing a pattern, but wound up about two miles behind the carrier on my base.  I got a too close abeam call from the vLSO as well, if that gives you a sense of the pattern I tried making. :P

And no, I didn't.  I have a custom single player flight/mission type thing set up for myself. :P
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on November 01, 2011, 12:58:56 am
Some interesting questions for an LSO to answer. IMHO a WOP would be for a poor pattern - too wide / too close abeam and too long in the groove the most prevalent of a WOP I guess. The LSO will not tolerate 'long time in the groove' because that messes up the other aircraft in the pattern. Better to wave off the one too long to save the other 3 or more which are correctly spaced to be recovered expeditiously rather than to allow the chap who is long to land and waving off the other three.

LSOs become very good at gaugeing all kinds of subtle clues from the aircraft attitude, smoke out the back, noise if it can be heard and the nosewheel lights. There are ways for the aircraft to be on speed but carrying too much power for example that are beyond the vLSO capability probably. Remember the LSO is a human and not a computer. There are many variables in any approach while the LSO notes what he considers important at the time.

I have not been test flying the vLSO but have an inkling of what it is like from my testing of the FCLP pattern V1 and V2 with fsxnp. Being absolutely accurate is likely only in one person's opinion. Yes at the ramp the LSO should stop talking unless an Emergency Wave Off is warranted (foul deck) with a faint hope that it will be successful; or the aircraft will clear the ramp for a taxi one or better. Sounds to me like fsxnp is doing a great job with vLSO.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on November 01, 2011, 01:17:47 am
subs17 asked about the 'KAHU'. It is a cheapware FSX version of the A-4K Skyhawk upgraded / modified by the RNZAF in the late 1980s - early 1990s to the 'KAHU' standard with a HUD amongst other things. The Kiwi chaps making/modifing the FSX version were not familiar with the AOA indexer nor with requirements of carrier landing. My attempts to have them change the parameters (I was the flying characteristics tester) to get a better landing configuration response were not viable. They only consider it as a land runway version. The view is not so good out the front either. It is not a good candidate for carrier landings but OK for land landings. :D  Otherwise the model is excellent with accurate flying responses and working everything otherwise correctly and it looks very nice when doing all those things including the wonderful parachute out the back on landing. A lot of old style earlier than FSX A-4 aircraft used to fly like Lear Jets and drop out of the sky when the spoilers were activated. None of this happens with the KAHU. The leading edge slats work as well as the spoilers, speedbrake and brake parachute, with opening canopy etc.

Here is a video of a test flight (I always took off in the same configuration because the circuit was where the changes needed to be made, so that aspect is not realistic, a good circuit is a tight circuit). The brake chute was made larger and more realistic also.



http://www.flightsim.com/main/review/a4k.htm
&
http://www.fspilotshop.com/product_info.php?products_id=2465

This was their old website: http://www.fratbrosdesign.com/

Did not realise there is now so much info available on it online. Whatever.

I hope one day to see an accurate (as accurate as the Hornet) Skyhawk available (without the HUD being in the way) for some old style carrier landings. Meatball, line up and airspeed (Optimum Angle of Attack).

Someone may find the engine response and carrier landing flying qualities OK so don't let me put you off a very good FSX aircraft.  ;D

RNZAF A4K KAHU Skyhawk - test circuit NAS Nowra

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on November 01, 2011, 01:42:57 am

What are the parameters for the Abeam? 590-610 ft and 1.2-1.5 NM TCN? What's your baseline number and margin of error? I'm asking, so I know what to fly.


Serge,

I have the same question as Sludge: what parameters are you using for the Abeam? I have flown at least 50 passes at distances and elevations close to the ones Sludge mentions, without an "Abeam " call. Although I am making good approaches and landings, without this call I am not happy with my flight :)

Johan
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: micro on November 01, 2011, 02:00:19 am
Thanks for the compliments guys. I’m still having the same problem with the T-45. It seems like the speeds in the debrief don’t jive with the approach. Like in my vid, I’m on speed most of the time except for at 3:01 I go to a red chevron just before the ramp. In the debrief it shows me fast during the entire approach except for when I actually did go fast. At that point it shows me on speed. Beats me.

Also, It seemed like the LSO started timing right after the catshot. Right at the end of the stroke I heard “you’re a little fast”. This also correlates to the time in the groove which is 111 seconds. Anyway, it is still a ton of fun. Good times.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 01, 2011, 03:22:14 am
Well guys
Thanks for your input! Indeed, this is merely a beta therefore is not free of bugs and glitches. That's why we test it  :)

Abeam. Yes, there are some inconsistencies, I guess I'll have to rework this part of the program.

AoA. Good observation, micro! The program is set for the Hornet's AoA numbers, but as it appeared the Goshawk has almost one degree less on-speed AoA. That's why you were getting 'a little fast' warnings while flying an on-speed approach.

Thanks again.  :)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on November 01, 2011, 04:13:13 am
Well guys
Thanks for your input! Indeed, this is merely a beta therefore is not free of bugs and glitches. That's why we test it  :)


Serge,

You are the one to be thanked. Your program is outstanding, I have never seen such a level of commitment to get to perfection in the sim environment.
Thank you,

Johan
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Orion on November 01, 2011, 08:36:17 am
Okay, think I did this one a little better. :P

&hd=1

Edit: Apparently, for some reason, the vLSO didn't record the wire caught.  As shown in my video, I had the wire trap gauge running, and I got a 3 wire.  The main GUI of the vLSO says I got an OK, but the debrief screen says fair.

Edit 2: Yays~  Got an OK 3 from the vLSO! ;D  Not sure if I actually deserved it, though.  Didn't seem like that good of an approach.  See 2nd debrief screen and video:
&hd=1.

Edit 3: Does OK in parenthesis mean fair?  Anyways, spent way too much time on this for tonight...  I should really be getting some rest.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 01, 2011, 09:49:08 am
Orion,
You shouldn't get an Ok 3 because of your lineup deviations. But currently the program grades your approaches based only on the glideslope deviations. I'll fix this in the next beta version, so hurry up making more Ok 3's  ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 01, 2011, 01:03:13 pm
I like Sludge's suggestion, three settings: Nugget, Fleet, CAG.

We are agreed  :) Plus Zip-Lip button.

Quote from: capthaltli
Does anyone know how real world LSO's grade AoA (on speed)? Do they grade speed at the 0.1 degree level of AoA? I am not an LSO, but I would assume they use the AoA indexer on the nose gear and also aircraft attitude. Using that logic, the cockpit AoA indexer could show a yellow doughnut and red chevron at the same time when the nose gear AoA indexer would only show yellow (I think this is correct). Here is a picture showing AoA varies during the approach with the ultimate goal of being on speed. What do others think or does anyone have any real world input?

Right, the ALA (Approach Light Assembly) on the nose gear shows only one color, not two at the same time, as the AoA indexer does. This is a coarser indicator. This means that LSO can't see that aircraft is 'a little slow' or 'a little fast', he can only see it 'fast' or 'slow'... This also means that I should change the way the vLSO checks on-speed deviations. And this eliminates the need for those 'a little slow/fast' voice calls, too...
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on November 01, 2011, 02:00:35 pm
Right, the ALA (Approach Light Assembly) on the nose gear shows only one color, not two at the same time, as the AoA indexer does. This is a coarser indicator. This means that LSO can't see that aircraft is 'a little slow' or 'a little fast', he can only see it 'fast' or 'slow'... This also means that I should change the way the vLSO checks on-speed deviations. And this eliminates the need for those 'a little slow/fast' voice calls, too...

That seems to make sense to me Serge, but again I am not an LSO.

-CAPT
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on November 01, 2011, 06:44:22 pm
The LSO may not make a radio call "a little fast/slow" or any other 'a little' condition except perhaps during initial carqual or beginners FCLP, he will make notations though for debrief. The LSO is very good at seeing any deviations from ideal and he/she does not rely on any one indication such as the nosewheel light except perhaps when conditions such as night time preclude looking at other aircraft benchmarks as mentioned earlier. The LSO is trained to be the expert.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Letourn on November 02, 2011, 03:11:55 am
Thanks you Serge for that new Beta lots of fun and some really good new features.

I think i also have the same problem that the other people hard to get the abeam call.

Thanks again!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on November 02, 2011, 04:39:42 am
subs17 asked about the 'KAHU'. It is a cheapware FSX version of the A-4K Skyhawk upgraded / modified by the RNZAF in the late 1980s - early 1990s to the 'KAHU' standard with a HUD amongst other things. The Kiwi chaps making/modifing the FSX version were not familiar with the AOA indexer nor with requirements of carrier landing. My attempts to have them change the parameters (I was the flying characteristics tester) to get a better landing configuration response were not viable. They only consider it as a land runway version. The view is not so good out the front either. It is not a good candidate for carrier landings but OK for land landings. :D  Otherwise the model is excellent with accurate flying responses and working everything otherwise correctly and it looks very nice when doing all those things including the wonderful parachute out the back on landing. A lot of old style earlier than FSX A-4 aircraft used to fly like Lear Jets and drop out of the sky when the spoilers were activated. None of this happens with the KAHU. The leading edge slats work as well as the spoilers, speedbrake and brake parachute, with opening canopy etc.

Here is a video of a test flight (I always took off in the same configuration because the circuit was where the changes needed to be made, so that aspect is not realistic, a good circuit is a tight circuit). The brake chute was made larger and more realistic also.



http://www.flightsim.com/main/review/a4k.htm
&
http://www.fspilotshop.com/product_info.php?products_id=2465

This was their old website: http://www.fratbrosdesign.com/

Did not realise there is now so much info available on it online. Whatever.

I hope one day to see an accurate (as accurate as the Hornet) Skyhawk available (without the HUD being in the way) for some old style carrier landings. Meatball, line up and airspeed (Optimum Angle of Attack).

Someone may find the engine response and carrier landing flying qualities OK so don't let me put you off a very good FSX aircraft.  ;D

RNZAF A4K KAHU Skyhawk - test circuit NAS Nowra



Hey Spaz that is a cool addon I wonder did the RNZAF ever land any of their A4s on the Aussie Carrier? I'm surprised they never allowed the AoA indexer to be modeled since the K has got alot incommon with the F-16 which has one next to the HUD. I wonder if the real K had one in the same location.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on November 02, 2011, 05:51:20 am
subs17, short answer is that the Royal New Zealand Air Force flew the A-4K a couple of years after the RAN FAA started (both sent crews/maintainers to the USA). However the New Zealanders had no requirement to carrier deck land. When the fixed wing component of the Royal Australian Navy Fleet Air Arm was stopped (along with the only aircraft carrier being sold for scrap) around 1984, the Kiwis bought the remaining 10 A4G/TA4Gs, flying them back to New Zealand from NAS Nowra in mid 1984.

Later all the RNZAF Skyhawks were upgraded to KAHU status. Initially the older RNZAF pilots had some difficulty using the new HUD. One such tore off a main wheel in the under run during this transition, having to make an empty drop tank landing (partly arrested) on foam. The Kiwis were not so savvy about arrested landings even ashore. These stories and more in the PDFs online (see sig below URLs).

The FSX KAHU does have an AoA Indexer working but not so accurate as that in the Hornet for example. The AoA can be seen in the HUD and as seen in the video it jumps around a lot. Not a big deal. My concern was the poor engine response in landing mode. OK for long straight in approaches but not good enough for carrier landings IMHO. As mentioned others may find it OK. Otherwise it is an excellent aircraft for shore operations.

From memory (not a lot of details are actually available about the KAHU to date but now that the aircraft have been given to museums or sold to a commercial warbird interest in the USA - these details may become more public knowledge) the old AoA indexer was incorporated in the cockpit unique design which does have a lot of F-16 commonality due to the radar used.

If there is a good USN Skyhawk for FSX out there it would be good to know.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on November 02, 2011, 06:33:05 am
It is very important to fly 'dirty' delta winged aircraft in turns at Optimum Angle of Attack or above (the A-4 Skyhawk is a good example) . At less than optimum there is a danger the aircraft will fall out of the sky very quickly, especially if engine RPM is low and full power needed. One reason why the AoA indexer was invented by the USN in the mid to late 1950s. Flying an airspeed without taking weight into account was too dangerous. Here is a pic showing the old A-4K AoA indexer (with the KAHU HUD) which was used by the RNZAF for landings ashore but after a while I'm told they transitioned to using only the HUD AoA indications.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 02, 2011, 08:58:46 am
And here's my problem with the Ball Call distance. When I called the first ball, in-flight/on-HUD it was 0.7NM, but the vLSO GS/LU screens had me at approx 3900'.

Sludge,
There's no problem  ;) The HUD TCN reading has format 4.1, which means that 0.74, and 0.70, and 0.65 are all rounded to 0.7, but 0.64 to 0.6 etc. So, if you're at the distances from 0.74NM to 0.65NM, you will get the same 0.7 TCN reading...
Simple computations will give us

0.70NM * 6076' = 4560'
0.65NM * 6076 = 3949'
0.60NM * 6076' = 3650'

Actually you called ball at approximately 4200'..4100' from the touchdown point, so this is still 0.7 TCN.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on November 02, 2011, 08:20:58 pm
Serge...

OK, so try to call it right as the HUD TCN changes to .7, that way its on the topside of the rounding and closer to your depicted BC zone?

Also, not only is this question for you Serge but for everyone as wel. Other than Orion's one-time 16 sec groove, has ANYONE been able to get the NATOPS 15-18 sec groove time? I for one havent even been close. I even set 25 kts WoD just to try and I got it down to 22 secs. I even tried straight-in approaches just to makes sure it wasn't a pattern issue and sure enough, still 22 secs or more. Am I missing something (obvious or not)?

Not sure why but we here in FSX NavAv just cannot get into the sub-20 groove time? What real-world/FSX disconnect is happening?

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on November 02, 2011, 10:36:25 pm
Sludge,
My groove times with correct ball call (manual) distance of 3/4 of a mile are ~23 seconds. I have had groove times in the 13 second range but realized this is due to manually calling the ball inside of 3/4 of a mile, more towards the IM range. We may have to adjust either the aircraft carrier speed (decel) or reduce winds to get a faster ground speed and groove time, what do you think?

-Capt
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on November 03, 2011, 12:46:36 am
CAPT...

Yeah, I just dont know what will cut it. I'll re-try some passes at 25 kts WoD, but my last passes were low-20's and the WoD was 25 kts (15 kts ship/10 kts wind down the angle). So I just dont know where the disconnect is...

I'll try some "creative" things to see if we can get WoD at 20 kts total, and then see what happens.

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on November 03, 2011, 03:02:49 am

has ANYONE been able to get the NATOPS 15-18 sec groove time?

Later
Sludge

Sludge,

My best is around 17sec in the groove, but with WoD=0. All my other passes with WoD>0 are around 22sec.

Johan

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on November 03, 2011, 05:23:43 am
Is it possible for the LSO to have a specific radio freq and for the LSO chatter to be overheard in MP on radio. And another idea is for a carrier ATC to request landing prior to approach. What is the procedure etc for an approaching aircraft to join the pattern and make an approach?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on November 03, 2011, 05:31:05 am
"Charlie Time - Assigned time for carrier aircraft to land, generally meant as the time that an aircraft crosses the RAMP. "Your Signal Charlie" means 'commence approach immediately, and land upon arrival.'"

http://www.hazegray.org/faq/slang1.htm

Carrier/Land briefing will nominate a 'Charlie' time if otherwise the brief states going to carrier perhaps for CarQual when making contact the Carrier might clear aircraft into the day pattern for example.

The carrier will like only to be steaming into wind for the shortest time possible with a ready deck. Being late is reason for a good talking to from the CAG (Air Boss).

Instrument/Night approaches will have aircraft in a stack waiting to be streamed onboard under control.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on November 03, 2011, 05:31:33 am
SUBS...

Seriously. You trying to give Serge an aneurism? Now you are in big-time Christmas-wishlist land. Let the man fix the basic problems first.

Johan...

So with WoD total = 0, did you have a static carrier? IF so, that sucks, 'cause thats really confusing as to how we can get into the groove for 15-18 secs.

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on November 03, 2011, 05:54:50 am

Johan...

So with WoD total = 0, did you have a static carrier? IF so, that sucks, 'cause thats really confusing as to how we can get into the groove for 15-18 secs.

Later
Sludge

Sludge,

Yes, I did have a static carrier....which helped reduce the time in the groove...I understand the dilemma...
However, I have another pass with WoD=37knots in Serge's configuration where the carrier is moving (attached). I made 17.5 sec but the LSO was screaming at my speed, although he didn't give me a wave off.

Johan


Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 03, 2011, 08:57:00 am
OK, so try to call it right as the HUD TCN changes to .7, that way its on the topside of the rounding and closer to your depicted BC zone?

Sludge, excuse me for my miscalculation...

0.70NM * 6076' = 4250' (not 4560' as I wrote)
0.75NM * 6076 = 4560' <--- This number is for .75NM

My auto ball call is set at .757, should I move it closer and set it exactly at .75? The difference is just ~43'..
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on November 03, 2011, 04:35:58 pm
Serge...

Thanks. And I think your existing BALL CALL distance is fine. I think I'm just being nit-picky. I'll fly some more tonight and let you know as I find out.

On CAPT's idea, I would agree, have the ACTIVE vLSO (opposed to the debriefing sheet AFTER the pass) speed calls be a little lenient. I would say base it more on the ALA assembly (as thats what I presume he sees and uses), so if the ALA goes RED, then he says "you're fast". Same for "you're slow". I think you get the meaning.

Later
Sludge

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on November 03, 2011, 08:22:04 pm
SUBS...

Seriously. You trying to give Serge an aneurism? Now you are in big-time Christmas-wishlist land. Let the man fix the basic problems first.

Johan...

So with WoD total = 0, did you have a static carrier? IF so, that sucks, 'cause thats really confusing as to how we can get into the groove for 15-18 secs.

Later
Sludge

It was just a few ideas for later when and if someone feels like adding it and also I am curious on the procedure from launch to landing/pattern entry etc. This is quite an awesome mod I am amazed I landed the VRS SH yesterday very cool seeing the Rhino call.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on November 03, 2011, 09:52:17 pm
Okay, think I did this one a little better. :P

&hd=1

Edit: Apparently, for some reason, the vLSO didn't record the wire caught.  As shown in my video, I had the wire trap gauge running, and I got a 3 wire.  The main GUI of the vLSO says I got an OK, but the debrief screen says fair.

Edit 2: Yays~  Got an OK 3 from the vLSO! ;D  Not sure if I actually deserved it, though.  Didn't seem like that good of an approach.  See 2nd debrief screen and video:
&hd=1.

Edit 3: Does OK in parenthesis mean fair?  Anyways, spent way too much time on this for tonight...  I should really be getting some rest.

I'm making a video of the A-10C checkride which you might find interesting regarding this stuff. The BFT checkrides help pilots fly the aircraft the way its supposed to be flown. When the video is finished I'll post it so you can see but the point is if such missions are possible for FSX based on the real F/A-18A/E/T45 pilot check rides. You being the mission maker guru might be interested anyway.

cheers

Subs
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on November 03, 2011, 10:14:59 pm
Subs17 said: "...also I am curious on the procedure from launch to landing/pattern entry etc..."

Not certain what the question is about. Sludge has given detailed FSX Hornet Carrier Circuit explanations with details and FSX Videos. Otherwise there are plenty of NATOPS diagrams in threads. Is this what you are after?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on November 03, 2011, 11:32:34 pm

On CAPT's idea, I would agree, have the ACTIVE vLSO (opposed to the debriefing sheet AFTER the pass) speed calls be a little lenient. I would say base it more on the ALA assembly (as thats what I presume he sees and uses), so if the ALA goes RED, then he says "you're fast". Same for "you're slow". I think you get the meaning.

Too add to this speed discussion, I think it would make sense to have the vLSO look for a duration of time the ALA goes red or green, before a call is made, or log is made in the vLSO book. What I mean is you would have to trend fast or slow for at least one or two seconds before you got a call "you're fast" or "you're slow", or got a grade as little fast or little slow. I thought the LSO is there to catch bad trends, not to give "sugar" calls for every little deviation (unless a nugget). So you might go fast or slow on AoA for a brief second when making corrections, but as long as you are not trending slow or fast, and get on speed (correct AoA) promptly you do not need input from the LSO. What do you think?

-CAPT
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on November 04, 2011, 12:10:59 am
Subs17 said: "...also I am curious on the procedure from launch to landing/pattern entry etc..."

Not certain what the question is about. Sludge has given detailed FSX Hornet Carrier Circuit explanations with details and FSX Videos. Otherwise there are plenty of NATOPS diagrams in threads. Is this what you are after?

Immersive mission creation based on real life procedures, coms and check rides. I'll chek out the rest of that stuff when I get a chance.

cheers

Subs
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on November 04, 2011, 02:06:32 am
capthaltli makes a great suggestion about LSO radio calls it would seem. Nothing worse than an LSO 'gabbing' (talking) a lot. In fact their aim is to say as little as possible and for the pilot to obey 'WaveOff' calls without question - otherwise - the CHOP (disqualification).  ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 04, 2011, 01:44:51 pm
...it would make sense to have the vLSO look for a duration of time the ALA goes red or green, before a call is made, or log is made in the vLSO book...

I agree
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: K6952 on November 06, 2011, 03:31:35 pm
FSXNavyPilot,
 What are the "locus" parameters in the .ini file? The first 2 numbers are (obviously) max and min range in feet for each stage of the approach, but what are the next 4 numbers?
Thanks,
-Rabbit
"Flaring to land is like squatting to pee"
WWW.FSXCarrierOps.Com
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 07, 2011, 10:46:04 am
Look at this:
(http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4138.0;attach=10550;image)

The [Locus] section of the vLSO.ini file defines the locus of points in the vertical plane from which the aircraft will reach an on-glideslope condition at the ramp (OK GS and OK rate-of-descent) (see the RHE-NAV-90-TR-1, pages 137 and 138).
You're right, the first 2 numbers are max and min distances for each stage (or range) and the next 4 are extreme glideslope deviations at these distances. If your position at any given time is not within these boundaries, the program will consider your approach as bad and wave it off.
The reason I put this into the ini file was that anyone could tweak it, if needed. But nobody complained so far and I think I will omit this section from the final release.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: K6952 on November 07, 2011, 06:15:28 pm
Look at this:
(http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4138.0;attach=10550;image)

The [Locus] section of the vLSO.ini file defines the locus of points in the vertical plane from which the aircraft will reach an on-glideslope condition at the ramp (OK GS and OK rate-of-descent) (see the RHE-NAV-90-TR-1, pages 137 and 138).
You're right, the first 2 numbers are max and min distances for each stage (or range) and the next 4 are extreme glideslope deviations at these distances. If your position at any given time is not within these boundaries, the program will consider your approach as bad and wave it off.
The reason I put this into the ini file was that anyone could tweak it, if needed. But nobody complained so far and I think I will omit this section from the final release.

 Yeah, I figured as much. I tweaked the numbers to match the "H" and "L" limits so that it won't wave-off an approach unless there's an actual safety-of-flight deviation. We were having issues with it waving off what should have been "fair" grade passes. This also made it compatible with more aircraft.

Thanks,
-Rabbit
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on November 07, 2011, 06:25:35 pm
Thanks, Serge.
 
Do the wave off G/S values you use in the .ini file match the automatic wave off lights on Javier's carrier IFOLS?

Also, in the carrier mission you created, several of the menu options are greyed out (aircraft, time/date, weather), is there a way to allow the user to change these settings on the fly (FSX running) and not only through the .flt file?

-CAPT
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on November 07, 2011, 06:28:48 pm
Serge...

I would leave that in the final release IN-CASE people would like to tweak it. Some people MIGHT have been tweaking it already WITHOUT telling you or us about it here at FSDT? I know your vLSO is a BIG HIT over at VRS, as many of them have been testing it in the multiplayer too and saying it works like a champ.

CAPT...

I think you just click on the CHECKBOX "allow changes in mission" before you select his carrier mission, then those choices shouldnt be greyed out.

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: K6952 on November 07, 2011, 06:58:30 pm
Thanks, Serge.
 
Do the wave off G/S values you use in the .ini file match the automatic wave off lights on Javier's carrier IFOLS?

Also, in the carrier mission you created, several of the menu options are greyed out (aircraft, time/date, weather), is there a way to allow the user to change these settings on the fly (FSX running) and not only through the .flt file?

-CAPT

 I can tell you that the default values do not match the auto-waveoff values for Javier's. They are wider at the start and much tighter in-close.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: K6952 on November 07, 2011, 07:51:47 pm
Serge,
Are the extreme deviations at-range measured in degrees?
-Rabbit
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Essex on November 07, 2011, 10:09:02 pm
Hi Serge
Meant to say thank you for the latest beta, excellent work.

I haven't played around with the ini file but I did manage to get the Ark Royal to 'work' with the beta by adding these lines to it's sim.cfg

[fltsim.1]
title=CVN68_R9
model=
texture=

Obviously the deck angle etc are wrong (but not deck height in this case).
Could it be possible in future to add custom carrier entries to the ini file ideally with parameters for its geometry as well? The Locus isn't something I'd necessarily want to change.
Also ideally could we add custom aircraft entries with their optimum AOA?
End of wish list.

Cheers and Thanks again.

BTW, Sylvain has released a gauge package RFN_Tacan.zip to give any aircraft Tacan etc from any carrier with a catapult. Although I haven't updated my gauges as they already work fine. Instructions in English here;
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?59144-Carrier-Tacan-available-on-RFN

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: K6952 on November 07, 2011, 11:25:35 pm
Nevermind. I have confirmed that the values are in degrees.

Here's the locus profile I worked out:

[Locus]
Range.1 = 5600, 2500, 1.3, 1.3, -1.6, -1.6
Range.2 = 2500, 2200, 1.3, 1.3, -1.6, -1.6
Range.3 = 2200, 2000, 1.3, 0.8, -1.6, -0.8
Range.4 = 2000, 1600, 0.8, 0.45, -0.8, -0.45
Range.5 = 1600, 1300, 0.45, 0.45, -0.45, -0.45

2200' and beyond, it will wave off concurrent with the Javier waveoff lights. HI, LO
2200' to 1600', it will wave off any excursion greater than 2 balls. HI, LO
1600' and closer, it will waveoff for any excursion greater than 1 ball. (HI), (LO)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 08, 2011, 04:34:31 am
Thanks, K6952
Here's your locus (in bold colors) compared with the default locus (in faint colors). There were no exact numbers in the RHE_NAV_90_TR_1, so I just used 'rule of thumb' to specify the locus limits. Your numbers look good, I hope people will give it a go  8)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 08, 2011, 04:49:33 am
...I did manage to get the Ark Royal to 'work' with the beta...

...

Obviously the deck angle etc are wrong (but not deck height in this case).
Could it be possible in future to add custom carrier entries to the ini file ideally with parameters for its geometry as well?
...
Also ideally could we add custom aircraft entries with their optimum AOA?

Sounds good, but you are right - the AR's deck geometry is totally different, so the vLSO will not work properly with this carrier. Does this carrier have an OLS similar to FSX CVN68? I mean is that OLS as precise as FLOLS?

The vLSO currently supports following aircraft:

F/A-18A
F/A-18E
F-14D
T-45C
A-4K

And it's no problem to add support for any other carrier capable aircraft. I will add this feature to the next beta release.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 08, 2011, 11:45:44 am
Well guys,
The Beta 0.2 is here http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=4915.msg45464#msg45464 (http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=4915.msg45464#msg45464)

Read, install and test...

Some more details on the program.

The correct abeam position now depends on aircraft type and follows its NATOPS numbers:
F/A-18A - 1.25-1.5 NM
F/A-18E - 1.10-1.3 NM
F-14D - 1.0-1.25 NM
T-45C - 0.9-1.1 NM
A-4K - 1.0-1.25 NM

Too close abeam and too wide abeam areas both are 0.5 NM wide (again I used the rule of thumb here), abeam altitude limited to 800' (we'll discuss CASE III ops later)

LSO levels currently implement voice levels only:
Nugget - all voice calls,
Fleet - advisory and imperative calls,
CAG - imperative calls.

Happy landings!  ;)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on November 08, 2011, 04:20:17 pm
Thanks again Serge! Looking forward to the new release. Couple questions, is there anything one needs to do to have the vLSO adjust AoA values and abeam position for different aircraft or is it automatic? (e.g. T-45C vs F/A-18C). Did you mean F/A-18C 1.25-1.5NM, or F/A-18A?

Second, for the carrier mission you developed, can one add a support ship (destroyer, cruiser) 1NM behind the carrier by adding these lines of code to the .FLT file for the saved mission? Of course I would need to update the lat/long to match the carrier starting point with offset? I typically use the support ship to help fly the airplane from the 2D cockpit, as a visual reference for getting into the groove.

[Sim.245]
Sim=VEH_destroyer01

[SimVars.245]
Latitude=N36° 26' 27.60"
Longitude=W74° 30' 9.36"
Altitude=+000008.99
Pitch=0
Bank=2.5401646986622414e-027
Heading=79.075232246543749
PVelBodyAxis=0
BVelBodyAxis=-2.3020198699624645e-028
HVelBodyAxis=2.3773682295426338e-031
XVelBodyAxis=-3.2886623520653484e-027
YVelBodyAxis=7.4110606801254932e-020
ZVelBodyAxis=16.88761451793836
SimOnGround=True
OnPlatformHeight=-9999999999

[Slew.245]
Active=False

[Freeze.245]
Location=False
Altitude=False
Attitude=False
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 08, 2011, 05:23:01 pm
...is there anything one needs to do to have the vLSO adjust AoA values and abeam position for different aircraft or is it automatic? (e.g. T-45C vs F/A-18C). Did you mean F/A-18C 1.25-1.5NM, or F/A-18A?

The vLSO now automatically sets AoA and abeam values for the supported aircraft, which I listed previously.
Is there an FSX F/A-18C?.. Did I miss something?  ;D

Quote from: capthaltli
Second, for the carrier mission you developed, can one add a support ship (destroyer, cruiser) 1NM behind the carrier by adding these lines of code to the .FLT file for the saved mission?

Of course! You are free to modify this mission to your taste. But I think it's better to add ships to the mission's XML file, via Object Placement Tool, so the ships could move along with the carrier.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on November 08, 2011, 05:42:11 pm
Thanks Serge, my mistake, I thought there was a Charlie model in FSX.

Based on your earlier post, are you planning to develop a CASE III vLSO and mission? I was looking into using Instant Mission Maker to develop a Case III CV1 Approach mission, based on real world comms. The mission would be at night (new moon) and begin with the hornet in the air returning to the ship. You would receive marshal instructions (using real world comms) and an expected approach time. You would then have to meet the parameters for marshaling and then fly the CV1 approach to the carrier, meeting all parameters for the approach and making proper calls. I was hoping to include a tanker in the mission, so if you didn't trap on the first pass you would have to tank. I thought it would merge nicely with your vLSO ( which works on any carrier and would become active when transition to the ball at 3/4NM on the CV1 approach). Let me know if you are developing a mission or need any input. I am looking into developing this mission, but not sure how successful I will be, don't hold your breath.

Thanks again for the update .2 to the BETA vLSO!  ;D

-CAPT
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Tregarth on November 08, 2011, 06:39:48 pm

FSXNP,

I am still trying to fly the El Centro FCLP mission 1.  I am making (slow) progress; can you please tell me how to connect the vLSO to El Centro?  Hopfully one day I will graduate to Coupeville!

Thanks,

Tregarth
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on November 08, 2011, 10:07:08 pm
Fellas...

Just to clarify, the Sludge Hornet is an F/A-18 ALPHA with CHARLIE engine power. It has the 11k' static thrust settings. So, basically, you can call it an ALPHA PLUS (A+).

Tre...

Unless Serge has incorporated the vLSO program into the FCLP, AFAIK, the vLSO needs the carrier's "locus points" to work. You might get something similar that works with the FCLP AFTER he completes the initial vLSO into a full release version?

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Essex on November 08, 2011, 10:29:56 pm
Quote
Does this carrier have an OLS similar to FSX CVN68? I mean is that OLS as precise as FLOLS?

I assume it's the same OLS as the standard acceleration carrier, although I normally cheat and use the IFLOLS gauge instead.

Quote
please tell me how to connect the vLSO to El Centro?

You could do a similar trick as with the Ark Royal. Download the FLOLS Trailer (or use some other object), then rename the Arresting Gear in the sim.cfg to something like;

[fltsim.1]
title=CVN68_AG
model=ArrestingG
texture=

Then place the Arresting Gear on the runway (probably easiest with AICarriers), I guess you'll need to place them at an angle and experiment with the positioning. I haven't tried this myself, but you've got me thinking that perhaps I can use this 2nd object method to get vLSO working perfectly with Ark Royal and any other carrier.

Cheers.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: K6952 on November 09, 2011, 02:07:39 am
Hmm...

 I ran 4 passes in a Sludge with decent results (Fair 3, OK 3, Fair 1, OK 2) and then transitioned to the IRIS Phantom... And I got no LSO calls whatsoever and my passes weren't recorded. Has something been changed in Beta 2 that's disabling the vLSO from calling unknown aircraft? It worked in the first Beta.
-Rabbit
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 09, 2011, 03:29:10 am
K6952,
Yes, the 0.2b doesn't work with unknown aicraft.

Following aircraft now fully supported:

    F/A-18A Hornet (both Acceleration and Sludge)
    F/A-18E Rhino (VRS)
    F-14D Tomcat (Dino Cattaneo)
    T-45C Goshawk (Dino Cattaneo)
    A-4K Skyhawk KAHU

However, I plan to add support for custom aircraft. You will have to know and specify some numbers, particularly AoA fast, AoA slow, abeam position, etc.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: K6952 on November 09, 2011, 03:42:51 am
Okay. Not sure why, but the Alpha A-3 Skywarrior still works. What is the program using to identify the supported aircraft?
 I'll see if I can compile a list of alpha figures and abeam distances for the unsupported aircraft to help out.
-Rabbit
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 09, 2011, 03:45:27 am
You could do a similar trick as with the Ark Royal. Download the FLOLS Trailer (or use some other object)...

Essex,
I don't think that using this trailer is a good idea... When working on my FCLP missions I discovered that it's precision is twice as coarse (see the picture). This is due to limitations of technology Sylvain has used for his trailer. That's why I had to create my own Mk.14 IFLOLS replica, which fully meets Mk.14 specs. Unfortunately, it couldn't be used as a separate object like Sylvain's trailer, it's a part of an FCLP scenery. Yet another tech limitation...  :(
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 09, 2011, 03:48:34 am
Not sure why, but the Alpha A-3 Skywarrior still works.
OMG... Does it really work with the 0.2 beta???? Could you tell me what's the value of its atc_model parameter under [General] section of its Aircraft.cfg, please?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: wilycoyote4 on November 09, 2011, 04:15:06 am
I don't know if this a proper place to mention that Iris has made the T-6A II Texan freeware.
The model seems not have a hook and I don't know if this aircraft ever made a carrier landing in real life nor a cat launch.

Hook and cat can be added to the cfg file.

Touch and go ----bolters ----- perhaps?  Anyway, part of real Navy training.
http://irissimulations.com/product-classics-t6a.php
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on November 09, 2011, 04:29:20 am
RF-4B Phantom (USMC) NATOPS Carrier Circuit .GIF diagram with relevant NATOPS pages. I'll look for more AoA and other info in the NATOPS to add later if relevant.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on November 09, 2011, 09:15:34 am
RF-4B Phantom NATOPS FCLP .GIF diagram and a 4 page PDF about AoA.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Tregarth on November 09, 2011, 12:11:21 pm

Having read the replies I think I will simply ask FSXNP to add the vLSO to the FCLP missions when he has time.  I am sure many others would really appreciate this.

Tregarth.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 09, 2011, 12:39:24 pm
Tregarth,
Sure I will make the vLSO compatible with the FCLP missions.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: K6952 on November 09, 2011, 01:14:53 pm
RF-4B Phantom NATOPS FCLP .GIF diagram and a 4 page PDF about AoA.

 Spaz,
 IIRC, the actual F-4 ran a flatter, faster pattern than most. Unfortunately, the IRIS doesn't fly that way. Anybody know how to get AoA data without installing a gauge?
-Rabbit
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on November 09, 2011, 02:18:32 pm
K6952, attached is my reading of the second F-4B Phantom NATOPS 'Approach Airspeed' Chart which I take as showing the 'Optimum Angle of Attack' Airspeed for a given landing weight. However the AoA Indexer should show the correct indication with this chart being only a cross reference check airspeed (not used for approach). Chart shows Approach Weight of 30,400lbs giving an ideal Approach KIAS of 130 knots (Optimum Angle of Attack - Approach Indexer Indication). [Red Vertical & Horizontal lines]

The NATOPS Carrier Circuit Diagram shows Approach Weight of 31,000 lbs giving an ideal approach airspeed of 132 Knots. [Purple Vertical & Horizontal lines]

Next is text straight out of RF-4B NATOPS (same as in the two NATOPS PDF extracts available on this thread). I'll look for more information tomorrow.

"...LANDING TECHNIQUE [FCLP] (NATOPS RF-4B)
For a normal field landing with a gross weight of approximately 31,000 pounds, fly the pattern as illustrated in figure 3-4, Enter the pattern as local course rules dictate, utilizing the throttles and speed brakes, as necessary, to maintain pattern altitude and airspeed. At the break, reduce thrust and extend the speed brakes (if required), As the airspeed decreases through 250 knots lAS, lower the landing gear and extend the wing flaps. Retract the speed brakes to decrease buffet, however, some buffet and noise will come from the nose wheel well as the landing gear extends. This noise and buffet will disappear as approach speeds are reached, Continue to decelerate to, and maintain, 150 Knots IAS. After the gear and flaps have been checked and reported, roll into the base leg and establish a mild rate of descent, maintaining an "on speed" angle of attack indexer light (140 to 150 knots lAS). Use the angle-of-attack indexer and maintain the "ON speed" indication except that 125 knots will be the minimum final approach speed, When on final approach, utilize a power setting of 84 to 86% rpm, This will provide an "on speed" angle of attack indexer light with a 2 1/2° to 30 glide slope and a rate of descent of approximately 700 fpm. Attempt to land within the first 1000 feet of runway whenever possible, however, do not chop power prior to crossing the end of the runway. The sudden loss of boundary layer control air will cause the airplane to settle immediately. At touchdown, retard the throttles to IDLE and deploy the drag chute,..."

...CARRIER LANDING PATTERN
The carrier pattern (figure 3-6) starts with the break at 600 feet, 250-300 knots IAS maximum on the starboard bow of the ship. The break interval will be one-half of the desired ramp interval time. Radio procedures will be in accordance with ship procedures. Fly the pattern at 600 feet above mean sea level. The 180 turn is commenced when abeam the LSO platform, On rollout to final, slightly overshoot the ships wake.

GLIDE SLOPE
The technique of flying the glide slope is the same as FCLP except that more power may be required and line-up will be much harder to maintain. With rough seas and subsequent pitching decks, some erratic meatball movements may be encountered. If this is the case, average out the "bouncing ball" to maintain a smooth and safe rate of descent. In no case overcorrect if the ball moves to a high indication...."
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: K6952 on November 09, 2011, 07:06:11 pm
Spaz,
 Yeah, I hear ya... but as I said the IRIS Phantom doesn't fly like an actual Phantom. I'll have to work out the numbers for what has been modeled rather than the actual aircraft.
 
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on November 09, 2011, 08:04:33 pm
K6952, I hear you also but cannot comment on what you suggest, as I do not have the IRIS Phantom nor will I have it. Is there a trialware version?

The NATOPS specs are more for general interest and especially for fsxnp work on the vLSO parameters. fsxnp has to have some kind of baseline to work with I gather.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Letourn on November 10, 2011, 12:02:53 am
Spaz,

 you can find the Virtavia freeware 3 packs at flightsim

Not sure about the Iris just saw some texture only
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: texxasal on November 10, 2011, 12:22:39 am
I have a question regarding the abeam and ball calls. I am flying the VRS F/A-18E Superbug which seems to cause an erroneous display of fuel weight during those calls. I have attached 4 different images of various parts of a session I just ran using vLSO 0.2b with Javier's Nimitz and the "bug".

I believe the fuel quantities that FSX "thinks" it has are different from those actually in the Superbug, but perhaps the VRS guys can better explain. I know we can't "fuel" the aircraft from the FSX option, but must use the fueling capabilities of the "bug" (either ACM, Tanking, or SHF+F).

Could this erroneous fuel input into the vLSO cause him to give what seem to be "a little off" with his speed calls?  Just wondering.

This software is great, and I don't mean to "nit pick".

Thanks for all your efforts
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on November 10, 2011, 01:01:07 am
Thanks 'Letourn', I guess this is the one?
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?49121-AlphaSim-FS9-Phantom-packs-now-freeware
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on November 10, 2011, 02:01:38 am
Looking forward to the Greenie Board!

CAPT
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Letourn on November 10, 2011, 02:07:11 am
spaz if you are using FSX i suggest to go to flightsim.com do search file "phantom Chicilo" you will find tree packs update for fsx then run another search for "phantom Bodenstedt" for some fix files.

There is also some gauges update here
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?linkid=4466&catid=117
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?linkid=4486&catid=117

to tell you the truth its been awhile since i install that F-4 but i do remember installing the three pack fist then some gauges fixe after that.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Letourn on November 10, 2011, 02:10:42 am
CAPT you cheated right? ;)

Now its sure that i will never post one of my pattern here.

Great flying CAPT
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: K6952 on November 10, 2011, 03:09:26 am
Looking forward to the Greenie Board!

CAPT

Holy crap! O_o
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on November 10, 2011, 04:47:18 am
Thanks again for Phantom for FSX info Letourn. Not sure if I'll have time to check it out though. Others may find them useful however.

IMHO from long experience with all 'supposedly' Naval aircraft until FSX came along with the Hornet - these older aircraft were not worth much in that regard. The SLUDGE (with various helpers) Hornet fix and the T-45C from Dino Cattaneo + HUD helpesr are terrific, with all the improvements made in FSX by various people all posting here. Of course there may be other 'naval' payware/freeware FSX aircraft by now but I'm very happy with the two mentioned. Many thanks to all concerned again as well as to 'fsxnp' and the 'terrifying' Mission 5 FCLP!  ;D ::)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on November 10, 2011, 05:59:04 am
CAPT...

Looking forward to the Greenie Board!

CAPT

You are ready to snatch the pebble from my hand, grasshopper. :D Haha. Seriously, great pass. ;D I see that you are still in the low 20s for groove time but I've given up on that, as I'm still working (and succeeding, thanks much to our in-house genius Serge) of re-writing the XMLs.

Once I get that and a few other things done for the Sludge v1.2 Delta, I'll start working patterns feverishly again to try to figure out the disconnect between REAL WORLD and FSX in this regard. I'll let you know as soon as I figure something out.

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: K6952 on November 10, 2011, 01:19:44 pm
CAPT...

Looking forward to the Greenie Board!

CAPT

You are ready to snatch the pebble from my hand, grasshopper. :D Haha. Seriously, great pass. ;D I see that you are still in the low 20s for groove time but I've given up on that, as I'm still working (and succeeding, thanks much to our in-house genius Serge) of re-writing the XMLs.

Once I get that and a few other things done for the Sludge v1.2 Delta, I'll start working patterns feverishly again to try to figure out the disconnect between REAL WORLD and FSX in this regard. I'll let you know as soon as I figure something out.

Later
Sludge

 That was the other thing I wanted to mention. Time in the groove doesn't actually start at the ball call, but rather when the aircraft is within lineup limits and wings level.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on November 10, 2011, 05:46:23 pm
Serge,

I thought of a cool trigger for your "very nice" sound file (.wav), it would trigger for a smoking hot CV break. What do you and others think about adding a voice trigger to the vLSO, similar to the abeam trigger "paddles copies" .wav, that would trigger when flying over the carrier at 800ft agl (+- 50ft) at 300KTS or greater (or should it be faster)? Maybe also add a note to the LSO debrief line, for SHB  ;) Two videos of smoking hot CV breaks!  8)





Also, I know OK are typically reserved for emergencies, but do you think you could add criteria to the vLSO to make getting this grade possible if the approach is flown almost perfectly? Not sure what that means, but my first guess would be -+0.1 deg G/S and lateral tracking on speed entire approach.

CAPT

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: K6952 on November 11, 2011, 12:47:43 am
Not sure why, but the Alpha A-3 Skywarrior still works.
OMG... Does it really work with the 0.2 beta???? Could you tell me what's the value of its atc_model parameter under [General] section of its Aircraft.cfg, please?

 Nothing listed there for ATC_ID or Model. That's probably why it still works.
 After reviewing the list of aircraft that I had in mind, it's probably a better idea to add a function that allows the user to make new profiles rather than trying to work them all out myself.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: burner12 on November 12, 2011, 01:09:20 am
I don't know what my problem is ,but I installed the program but never hear the sound only text at the top.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: micro on November 13, 2011, 11:11:56 pm
Been away for awhile and just now got to test out the new Beta. I’d say it’s just about perfect except that it promotes to long of a groove length. Specifically, it wants you to be wings level prior to ¾ of a mile. Yes, glideslope intercept and the ball call are at ¾ of a mile, but to get a proper groove length you won’t be wings level until somewhere like 0.6 – 0.5. When I do that, it grades me as “very lined up left at the start”. Is there a way to start the groove time and the grading when you roll wings level?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: micro on November 13, 2011, 11:48:16 pm
Here's a vid of what I mean. I roll wings level at 3:00 and thus have a 17 second groove length. This is a replay using FS-Recorder so the "airspeed" displayed is really ground speed. It was a 3 wire the first time around but the replay must have been off a touch as it shows a 2 wire. Sorry about the sound.

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 14, 2011, 03:50:58 am
micro,
thanks for your input!

...it wants you to be wings level prior to ¾ of a mile. Yes, glideslope intercept and the ball call are at ¾ of a mile, but to get a proper groove length you won’t be wings level until somewhere like 0.6 – 0.5. When I do that, it grades me as “very lined up left at the start”.

Currently the vLSO doesn't care about your banking. It just starts the groove timer and grading as soon as you call the ball, either automatically (i.e. passing the ¾) or manually (in this case you can be closer to the ramp).

Is there a way to start the groove time and the grading when you roll wings level?

No problem, let's give it a try. I suppose that the banking angle of ±3..5 degrees would be nice  :)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: micro on November 14, 2011, 04:08:44 am
I guess I should say that it wants you to be within line-up limits by ¾ of a mile. To do that you would have to be wings level somewhere like 0.7nm giving you about a 20 second groove at best. I used the manual ball call in the previous beta but it doesn’t seem to be an option in the new one. Am I missing something?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 14, 2011, 04:18:25 am
Have you set a button for manual ball call? By default this setting is disabled (commented out) in the .INI file.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: micro on November 14, 2011, 04:27:05 am
Ah, my bad. I didn't update the .ini file. (Face Palm).
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: WilliamCall on November 15, 2011, 03:24:00 am
Serge,
Awsome mission!  I see where several folks have gotten vLSO to work in free flight mode, no joy here.  Not sure where to begin to debug.  For starters, I'm using Vista 32 as an operating system.  Initially, I had the vLSO folder located on my G: drive, inside my Microsoft FSX folder.  I've since moved the vLSO folder to my C: drive, inside My Programs folder.  The mission works great, but can't get vLSO to work in free flight mode.  Any thoughts?  Thanks!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: syn on November 15, 2011, 06:34:14 pm
Hello,

Awesome program, real fun to practice patterns with it. Really hard to get a OK 3.

Just some feedback. I'm using Dino's T45 on Javier's Nimitz and sometimes the LSO would say that I trapped on wires 3 or 4 when I actually boltered. Haven't tried the f18 yet.

syn
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 16, 2011, 03:41:11 am
Yes, there are still some inconsistencies with trapping/boltering... I'm working on this..
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 16, 2011, 03:45:43 am
...The mission works great, but can't get vLSO to work in free flight mode.  Any thoughts?  Thanks!
The vLSO should work in any missions and free flights provided 1) there is a Nimitz class carrier and 2) you're flying one of the supported aircraft.
Are you sure your free flight meets these requirements?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: WilliamCall on November 16, 2011, 04:07:38 am
...The mission works great, but can't get vLSO to work in free flight mode.  Any thoughts?  Thanks!
The vLSO should work in any missions and free flights provided 1) there is a Nimitz class carrier and 2) you're flying one of the supported aircraft.
Are you sure your free flight meets these requirements?

Yes, I believe so.  I'm using Javier's Nimitz class carriers and flying VRS Super Hornet.  I thought that maybe I needed to run vLSO as an administrator, but that didn't make any difference.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 16, 2011, 04:28:05 am
One more question - when flying, are your vLSO's SimConnect and FSX indicators green?
If yes, you can also try to start the vLSO after FSX.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: micro on November 16, 2011, 04:33:54 am
This brings up a question for me. Does the ICLS need to be tuned in for the vLSO to function?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 16, 2011, 04:48:28 am
No. The program doesn't depend on ILS.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: WilliamCall on November 16, 2011, 05:01:00 am
One more question - when flying, are your vLSO's SimConnect and FSX indicators green?
If yes, you can also try to start the vLSO after FSX.

Serge,
Yes, they are green.  I will launch vLSO after I launch FSX.  Will report back later.  Thanks!


Later - I just tried running vLSO after launching FSX, no joy in free flight mode.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on November 16, 2011, 09:56:01 am
One issue mentioned if AI carrier spawns near an FSX AI carrier on the move the vLSO goes to the FSX AI carrier.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: K6952 on November 16, 2011, 01:44:48 pm
 Here's what we've found so far on the FSXCarrierOps beta test so far:
-For some reason, it won't work when configured to autostart with FSX.
-The abeam fix seems to be incorrect. Altitude should be 600'.
-There seems to be some discrepancy between the trap record and the carrier itself. Occasionally it will record bolters as traps and some traps aren't given wire numbers.
-As mentioned repeatedly above, the groove length is too long. The clock shouldn't start until the aircraft is wings-level in the groove.

The rest of these are requests/ suggestions from the team:
-More of the parameter data should be directly editable in the .ini file if possible.
-We'd like to see it wave-off a bad lineup if possible.
- Multiple skill levels on the profile so newbies won't get frustrated by constant waveoffs and give up.

I've included 3 skill levels and refined the standard profile to smooth it out.

Level 1 is "FUNGUS" as in "F*** you New Guy You SUCK". It won't wave you off unless you're out of the limits for safety of flight.

[Locus]

Range.1 = 5600, 2500, 1.3, 1.3, -1.6, -1.6

Range.2 = 2500, 2200, 1.3, 1.3, -1.6, -1.6

Range.3 = 2200, 2000, 1.3, 1.3, -1.6, -1.6

Range.4 = 2000, 1600, 1.3, 1.3, -1.6, -1.6

Range.5 = 1600, 1300, 1.3, 1.3, -1.6, -1.6



Next level is "RAG".

[Locus]

Range.1 = 5600, 2500, 1.3, 0.94, -1.6, -0.95

Range.2 = 2500, 2200, 0.94, 0.91, -0.95, -0.90

Range.3 = 2200, 2000, 0.91, 0.89, -0.90, -0.85

Range.4 = 2000, 1600, 0.89, 0.86, -0.85, -0.82

Range.5 = 1600, 1300, 0.86, 0.75, -0.82, -0.75

 
 Finally, there's "Fleet level".

[Locus]

Range.1 = 5600, 2500, 1.3, 0.75, -1.6, -0.77

Range.2 = 2500, 2200, 0.75, 0.68, -0.77, -0.72

Range.3 = 2200, 2000, 0.68, 0.66, -0.72, -0.71

Range.4 = 2000, 1600, 0.66, 0.57, -0.71, -0.60

Range.5 = 1600, 1300, 0.57, 0.45, -0.60, -0.45

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on November 16, 2011, 03:13:29 pm
Serge,
Did you see my earlier post on the "smoking hot break" trigger, and OK score? Just curious what you thought.

I have had similar discrepancies to those K6952 posted, with wires not being recorded in vLSO after trapping and bolters being counted as traps (this has happened only a few times).

I noticed that the vLSO comes to life (audio) when you watch your approaches from the LSO platform in FSX, very cool!  ;)



Thanks again for all your efforts on this amazing program
-CAPT
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 16, 2011, 04:24:41 pm
One issue mentioned if AI carrier spawns near an FSX AI carrier on the move the vLSO goes to the FSX AI carrier.

SUBS17,
Do I get it right that you're using AICarriers utility? The vLSO looks for a carrier within 4000 m, or some 2.2NM,  radius from your aircraft. Thus, if you spawn another AI carrier in front of a (moving or static) FSX carrier, then the vLSO will 'catch' this FSX carrier first, because it's closer to you. And vice versa, if your moving carrier is at, say, 6 NM and you spawn another AI carrier at 5 NM, then the vLSO should work with the latter...
I just took these 4 km by the rule of thumb...  ;)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 16, 2011, 04:45:44 pm
K6952,
Thanks for your detailed input!

-For some reason, it won't work when configured to autostart with FSX.
How do you autostart the vLSO? In a .CMD file or what?

-The abeam fix seems to be incorrect. Altitude should be 600'.
Right now the abeam altitude is limited by 800'. I agree that this is probably incorrect, but what the upper margin should be? 650' or even more? And, what should be the vLSO's reaction when you fly above that level?..

-There seems to be some discrepancy between the trap record and the carrier itself. Occasionally it will record bolters as traps and some traps aren't given wire numbers.
Yes, I know. I'm still working on this issue.

-As mentioned repeatedly above, the groove length is too long. The clock shouldn't start until the aircraft is wings-level in the groove.
In the beta 0.3 the timer will start as soon as your aircraft is wings level, i.e. bank angle is less than 5 degrees.

-More of the parameter data should be directly editable in the .ini file if possible.
No problem, what parameters?

-We'd like to see it wave-off a bad lineup if possible.
Surely will be done.

-Multiple skill levels on the profile so newbies won't get frustrated by constant waveoffs and give up.
I like this idea. The .INI file parameters are there already  :) One could keep three or more copies of .INI files with various locus settings and change them at one's own discretion.

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 16, 2011, 05:01:21 pm
Did you see my earlier post on the "smoking hot break" trigger, and OK score? Just curious what you thought.

Yes, I did.. An OK is already there, but temporarily disabled...  ;) As for the hot break, I think it's possible, but I'll have to figure out how to do that.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: MacK on November 16, 2011, 11:28:37 pm

I didn't realise I was always pulling to the left on my landings.     ::)

Cracking program - absolutely superb and a great help!     

Thanks very much.

 :D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: WilliamCall on November 17, 2011, 02:30:22 am
One issue mentioned if AI carrier spawns near an FSX AI carrier on the move the vLSO goes to the FSX AI carrier.

Subs,
Thanks for the reminder.  I mentioned that in the other forum, maybe not this one.  That does appear to be my problem.  I depart Oceana NAS to meet Javier's carrier, but vLSO doesn't work.  I fly a few miles up the cost to Norfolk ship yard and see the Microsoft carrier coming into port.  I do an approach to the Microsoft carrier and vLSO suddenly works.

Serge,
I notice on the landing log page, in the date column, the letter N or D after the date.  Does that mean DAY trap or NIGHT trap?  If so, then I've got another problem.  The traps that I made using the vLSO mission all have an N after the date, even though they were all flown during the day time.  The traps that I've flown usinf free flight mode, all have a D after the date, and all were flown during the day time.


What I'll do is continue testing, varying time of day, and see what haapens.  I'll also do some flights, changing my departure airfield.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 17, 2011, 03:24:30 am
I notice on the landing log page, in the date column, the letter N or D after the date.  Does that mean DAY trap or NIGHT trap?  If so, then I've got another problem.  The traps that I made using the vLSO mission all have an N after the date, even though they were all flown during the day time.  The traps that I've flown usinf free flight mode, all have a D after the date, and all were flown during the day time.

Yes, these letters mean Day and Night. There are three times in FSX - day, night and dusk/dawn. You can play with your calendar [in free flight] and see how these times change. Another good example are runway lights, which FSX turns on when it decides that the day time is over. The dusk/dawn was my big concern, because it's hard to programmatically determine when it becomes really dark, so I've decided that the program would consider dusk/dawn periods as night, too. Yes, sometimes you'd say that early dusk or late dawn do look like day.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: WilliamCall on November 17, 2011, 10:52:24 am
Well, I still can't get this to work in free flight mode.  I just did two flights, no joy!  First flight, I took off from Oceana and landed on the carrier. Then I paused FSX, started vLSO, and resumed the flight.  I stayed in the pattern and landed on the carrier, no LSO calls.  I stopped the flight, looked at the vLSO log, no new entrys.  So I quit vLSO, started a new flight departing from Pensacola.  I landed on the carrier, paused the flight, started vLSO, then resumed the flight.  Again, I stayed in the  pattern and landed on the carrier, no LSO calls.  Exactly, what is the procedure for getting vLSO to work in free flight mode?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 17, 2011, 11:43:30 am
Oh boy...  :o
Then I have some questions. Is there a carrier in your free flight? What time of day you take off from Oceana, where to fly to find that carrier? I'd like to re-create your situation here and see what's wrong with the program...
Does this carrier have a working FLOLS and arresting gear? Another place to look at is your FSX/SimObjects/Boats folder, with two subfolders named veh_carrier01_high_detail_sm and veh_carrier01. There are sim.cfg files in each. Please look at each and tell me what read their title= parameters?
Thanks!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SandPro on November 17, 2011, 08:06:28 pm
Serge, a big thanks for this software. Great work !

In case you have missed it (post by Burner on the 14th), I would also like to let you know I have several pilots that are experiencing intermittent... or NO audio with ver2. I am also seeing like reports on another forum. Personally, I have NOT experienced this problem. I have attempted to help these folks by going through all the normal diagnostics, with no joy.  This includes from how they unzipped and run vLSO (including using Admin rights), computer settings, etc.  Two are using XP and one using Win7. I know that is a little vague. Was wondering if there is anything "special" required to invoke the audio... not knowing how the audio is attaching within the exe.  For example.. Is there a possible conflict; depending on which java version they may be running? As of yet, I have not been able to isolate or help them resolve this issue.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: WilliamCall on November 18, 2011, 03:22:04 am
Oh boy...  :o
Then I have some questions. Is there a carrier in your free flight? What time of day you take off from Oceana, where to fly to find that carrier? I'd like to re-create your situation here and see what's wrong with the program...
Does this carrier have a working FLOLS and arresting gear? Another place to look at is your FSX/SimObjects/Boats folder, with two subfolders named veh_carrier01_high_detail_sm and veh_carrier01. There are sim.cfg files in each. Please look at each and tell me what read their title= parameters?
Thanks!

Serge,
I'm using Javier's CVN68, it does have a working FLOLS and arresting gear.  I've installed "carriertracks1and2", which have several compiled traffic .bgl files.  Two files of interest are: trafficNASeast.bgl and trafficNASeast2.bgl, which are located in Addon Scenery/scenery folder .  These traffic files allow the carrier to follow a traffic "flight plan".  By using these traffic files, they allow the carrier to show up in free flight mode, cruising on a given course and speed.  I'm not sure what goes into creating the .bgl files, I'm guessing it's compiling the .FLT files.  So, maybe the title in the .FLT files are important, which are:  Carrier Oceana, and Carrier Pensacola, respective.  Before I start free flight mode, I set the time of day as Day, everything else defaults to current year and day of month.

The title in the veh_carrier01_high_detail_sm config file is the same: veh_carrier01_high_detail_sm .  Same goes for veh_carrier01 config file:  VEH_carrier01 .  These are great questions, and by the nature of these questions, I'm guessing that the titles in the .FLT files (Carrier Oceana and Carrier Pensacola), which were used to create the compiled .bgl files, is the problem.  Let me know if there is anything I can do, and thanks for looking into this.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 18, 2011, 03:24:53 am
SandPro,
thanks for reporting this issue. Here's how the program works...
All the sound samples are stored in the Sound subfolder, within a folder where the vLSO.exe, vLSO.ini, SeanHand.ttf and Logbook.dat (this file appears after first run of the program) files are located. So, first make sure that this subfolder is present and there's a bunch of .WAV files in it.
Next, this program doesn't depend on Java or any other interpreting systems, it's a standalone, self-sufficient piece of software which doesn't need any usual windows installation procedures. All you have to do is to properly unzip the downloaded .ZIP to a folder of your choice. Again, properly means 'keeping its folders structure', i.e. the Sound subfolder has to be there. What it really does depend on are FSX Acceleration and its SimConnect componenet.  :)

Hope this helps..
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 18, 2011, 04:00:17 am
...  I've installed "carriertracks1and2", which have several compiled traffic .bgl files.  Two files of interest are: trafficNASeast.bgl and trafficNASeast2.bgl ...
Ok, I'll d/l this pack and see how my program handles these traffic carriers. Will report ASAP  :)

Edit.
Looks like you are using Javier's Nimitz_Ike_version2 carriers pack, right?  ;) Well, the program currently 'knows' only CVN68 carrier, whereas your traffic .BGLs use both CVN68 and CVN69. When starting the Pensacola saved flight, for example, take a look at the superstructure and you will see the number 69. That's why my program doesn't work with this carrier. The beta 0.3 will work with both CVN68 and CVN69 carriers.
BTW, the well known AICarriers2 utility allows you to use in free flight other Nimitz-class carriers, namely CVN71, 72, 73 and 76. They are all variations of the Acceleration carrier, not Javier's. Should I add support for these too?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SandPro on November 18, 2011, 04:29:17 am
Thanks for the info.  Yes, the file structures are correct.

I know there is a separate Simconnect build tool that uses Visual Studio 2005 or Visual C++. I assume that is how you are making that connection.

That leaves me a little confused on trying to isolate the issue, due to the fact that in the case of AICarrier2... the program uses the simconnect function provided via JAVA. As an example...If, you try to run AiCarrier2 without FSX running.... you will get about 9 Java errors... ie.. java.net.blindException:Cannot assign reqested address:connect and flightsim.simconnect.SimConnect.openNetworkConnection(simConnect.java:283), etc.
That is why I was questioning a possible Java conflict ?


Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: WilliamCall on November 18, 2011, 10:48:07 am

[/quote]
Looks like you are using Javier's Nimitz_Ike_version2 carriers pack, right?  ;) Well, the program currently 'knows' only CVN68 carrier, whereas your traffic .BGLs use both CVN68 and CVN69. When starting the Pensacola saved flight, for example, take a look at the superstructure and you will see the number 69. That's why my program doesn't work with this carrier. The beta 0.3 will work with both CVN68 and CVN69 carriers.
BTW, the well known AICarriers2 utility allows you to use in free flight other Nimitz-class carriers, namely CVN71, 72, 73 and 76. They are all variations of the Acceleration carrier, not Javier's. Should I add support for these too?
[/quote]

Serge,
Thanks so much for looking into this!  Yes, when I start my flights from Oceana, Pensacola, or Key West and land on the carrier, the carrier is indeed the USS Eisenhower (CVN69).  If it's not too much trouble, I'd like to see support for CVN71, 72, 73, and 76.  Thanks again!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: K6952 on November 19, 2011, 01:37:34 am
Serge,

Thanks for your detailed input!

Oh, no. Thank *you* for all your hard work!


How do you autostart the vLSO? In a .CMD file or what?

It's an XML file called "Exe.Xml". I don't really understand how all that works, but the computer geek who walked me through it says it's detailed in the SDK.

Right now the abeam altitude is limited by 800'. I agree that this is probably incorrect, but what the upper margin should be? 650' or even more? And, what should be the vLSO's reaction when you fly above that level?..

I would say +/- 100' is easily doable by most pilots if they're paying attention to their scan. Generally the LSO will inform the pilot if he's a little off at the abeam if the pattern's not loaded. "Bullets 203 paddles contact, slightly high and close aboard", that sorta thing.


No problem, what parameters?

 I would say any parameters that would be useful to tweak for different aircraft (AoA, abeam distance, eye-to-hook, etc), but others have suggested that *all* variables should be external to the .exe in order to make it more adaptable.

 FWIW, I have another idea for the OK trigger: If you get an OK 3 pass with absolutely no additional comments, it upgrades it to OK 3.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Orion on November 19, 2011, 07:41:38 am
It's an XML file called "Exe.Xml". I don't really understand how all that works, but the computer geek who walked me through it says it's detailed in the SDK.
Actually, it's not detailed in the SDK at all (that I recall, anyways).  Fortunately, it's not hard to understand, either.  Whatever you put in a Launch.Addon node (with its appropriate sub-nodes) gets launched when FSX is loading.  Simple as that.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: K6952 on November 20, 2011, 02:46:46 pm
It's an XML file called "Exe.Xml". I don't really understand how all that works, but the computer geek who walked me through it says it's detailed in the SDK.
Actually, it's not detailed in the SDK at all (that I recall, anyways).  Fortunately, it's not hard to understand, either.  Whatever you put in a Launch.Addon node (with its appropriate sub-nodes) gets launched when FSX is loading.  Simple as that.

 Thanks for the clarification. The problem here is that doing this successfully launches vLSO, but the sound doesn't work.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 20, 2011, 04:27:08 pm
That's because the vLSO can't find its Sound folder. By default the program tries to open the Sound folder in its current folder. In case you launch it via Exe.xml, the current folder is FSX main folder, not the folder where the vLSO is. This will be fixed it the 0.3 beta and the vLSO will no more depend on it.
BTW, the SDK does detail Exe.xml. You can find it here SDK/Core Utilities Kit/SimConnect SDK/SimConnect.htm#TheEXExmlandDLLxmlfiles
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Orion on November 20, 2011, 06:28:06 pm
Ah, thanks Serge.  I've got some reading to do. ;D

And on a side note, by default the exe.xml uses paths relative to FSX, but you can use absolute file paths too.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 21, 2011, 03:41:03 am
Yep, it works  :) Perhaps I'll add a commandline option like /auto or something, so that when FSX quits the vLSO will terminate too.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on November 21, 2011, 10:22:18 pm
Fellas...

Wont take away from this thread's content by posting the video here, but look at the Cool Videos thread, where I'm gonna post VFA-2's cruise video. It shows how much the guy is working the stick and throttles during a pass... almost unreal.

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on November 22, 2011, 08:16:11 am
Serge,
Did you see my earlier post on the "smoking hot break" trigger, and OK score? Just curious what you thought.

I have had similar discrepancies to those K6952 posted, with wires not being recorded in vLSO after trapping and bolters being counted as traps (this has happened only a few times).

I noticed that the vLSO comes to life (audio) when you watch your approaches from the LSO platform in FSX, very cool!  ;)



Thanks again for all your efforts on this amazing program
-CAPT

FSXNAVYPILOT is now officially a LEGEND.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Caleb on November 23, 2011, 04:44:00 am
Look forward to using!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: davidbuderim on November 25, 2011, 05:41:27 am
I've just finished my first 50 passes since getting vLSO a few days ago. What a magnificent piece of kit. Many thanks.
I could land the VRS superbug OK before this but it was way too fast. And who knew where I was on glideslope and line up.
Looking forward to the next 50 passes and less wave offs!!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on November 30, 2011, 07:03:16 pm
Serge,

Just thought of a good addition to the vLSO. Trend Analysis!

One of the jobs of an LSO, and the reason they are there is to spot and correct bad trends. Right now with the vLSO we have to look at each approach debrief individually (to see our lateral and vertical/speed performance). What if you added a button to the main vLSO that would show every approach in the logbook.dat file on one graph at the same time, so you could see good and bad trends in your glideslope (e.g. you always are little low in the middle) or lateral performance overtime.

What do you and others think?

-CAPT
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on December 01, 2011, 08:10:14 am
Capt,
No objections, because it is already in my 'to do' list  :) A couple of months ago Spaz has sent me this APARTS PDF http://www.faa.gov/library/online_libraries/aerospace_medicine/sd/media/brictson.pdf... See page 3, I think this idea could be well developed and implemented in the vLSO.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on December 01, 2011, 03:00:43 pm
Serge,

That is great! In addition to the trend slide shown in the APARTS PDF for scores, I was thinking of a vertical and lateral trend graph like the picture attached below for glideslope trends (fictional data).

-CAPT
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on December 03, 2011, 05:42:01 pm
Ok, the beta 0.3 is ready, see the top of the thread http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=4915.msg45464#msg45464 (http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=4915.msg45464#msg45464)

Just briefly some new features:

New locus descriptions
The lineup locus (Locus.LU)
Variable number of locus ranges allowed
A commandline option auto for auto termination when FSX quits
Custom aircraft support
VRS SH fuel quantity issue fixed

Happy landings!  8)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: ExNusquam on December 04, 2011, 07:59:58 am
I've been using vLSO over the past few weeks, and It's rather awesome. Really adds to the sense of realism.

The only change I can think of would be to change the call from "A little low" to "Little power". The scant few videos with LSO chatter in them seem to use directive calls more than advisory ones.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on December 05, 2011, 04:53:57 am
Joeairplane79,

These are actually two different calls. According to NAVAIR 00-80T-104, the You’re (a little) low call is informative, it means that Aircraft is (slightly) below optimum glide-slope and is used to inform pilots of existing situations. The A little power call is imperative, it means that Aircraft is decelerating or settling and is used to direct the pilot to execute a specific control action...
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on December 05, 2011, 06:53:31 pm
Thanks, Serge for the latest release!  ;D

I looked at the PDF, but still had a couple questions:

Is the "Groove Time" assessment working better in beta 0.3?
Are any vLSO notes added to LSO Logbook for abeam performace (too wide/ too close/ high / low)?
Are any vLSO notes added to the LSO Logbook for Smoking Hot Break?
Finally, I noticed in the PDF, you show the points awarded for various scores (OK = 4 points, etc), do you plan to implement a score card or running average in the vLSO to see if you are above the required 3.0?

Also, does anyone know the correct values for the A-6E Intruder (Razbam)
[Aircraft.1]
ATC_model=A6
Modex=Intruder
Name=A-6E Intruder
Slow=8.2?
Fast=6.2?
AbeamClose=1.0?
AbeamWide=1.25?

-CAPT
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: K6952 on December 06, 2011, 01:01:17 am
Uh-oh...

 I'm getting an error message.

First I get a Range Check Error in a dialog box.
 Then it says
Access Violation at address 0047E1F3 read of address 00000008.
Access Violation at address 004AD208 read of address 00000008.

 After that, it comes up, but no pics, log entries and doesn't work.
 I can't close it. It just keeps repeating the same errors.

-Rabbit
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on December 06, 2011, 03:17:11 am
Capt,

Is the "Groove Time" assessment working better in beta 0.3? - I hope so, the timer starts as soon as your wings are level
Are any vLSO notes added to LSO Logbook for abeam performace (too wide/ too close/ high / low)? - not yet
Are any vLSO notes added to the LSO Logbook for Smoking Hot Break? - not yet
Finally, I noticed in the PDF, you show the points awarded for various scores (OK = 4 points, etc), do you plan to implement a score card or running average in the vLSO to see if you are above the required 3.0? - yes I do, this will be used for trend analysis etc.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on December 06, 2011, 03:19:35 am
I'm getting an error message.

Access Violation at address 0047E1F3 read of address 00000008.
Access Violation at address 004AD208 read of address 00000008.

This version is not compatible with any previous, so you have to remove the Logbook.dat file. Sorry for the inconvenience...
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on December 06, 2011, 03:18:06 pm
Thanks, Serge.

The groove time is working better but need to test it out more. Will look forward to the other additions I mentioned. I think the groove time, break, and abeam position/distance could eventually be used for doing a complete vLSO assessment.

One thing I noticed which might need to be tweaked is the OK3 scoring criteria. I noticed you implemented the _OK3_ since I got two of them last night; however, on both of the approaches I had minor errors on speed and g/s which were in the LSO logbook. I think this score should be reserved for only those approaches where no parameters are flagged in the LSO logbook entry, besides just an OK three wire, what do you think?

I like when you catch a three wire (and get the OK3) the LSO in FSX says something like "very nice" or "great job" it is hard to hear, but I did notice it.  8)

Also, is there a way to make the OK3 score in the vLSO completely underlined like OK3, not just underlines to the left and right of the _OK3_ ?

CAPT
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: candy on December 06, 2011, 10:30:41 pm
After launching vLSO the abeam call only sound off once and never again till you re-launch the program
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on December 07, 2011, 04:31:47 am
One thing I noticed which might need to be tweaked is the OK3 scoring criteria. I noticed you implemented the _OK3_ since I got two of them last night; however, on both of the approaches I had minor errors on speed and g/s which were in the LSO logbook. I think this score should be reserved for only those approaches where no parameters are flagged in the LSO logbook entry, besides just an OK three wire, what do you think?
Yes, the scoring system currently is just basic and primitive and really needs to be tweaked. I will concentrate on this in the next betas.

Quote from: capthaltli
I like when you catch a three wire (and get the OK3) the LSO in FSX says something like "very nice" or "great job" it is hard to hear, but I did notice it.  8)
The vLSO says something like that, too. Didn't you hear it?  ;)

Quote from: capthaltli
Also, is there a way to make the OK3 score in the vLSO completely underlined like OK3, not just underlines to the left and right of the _OK3_ ?
Yes, it's easy. Fixed in beta 0.4

Quote from: candy
After launching vLSO the abeam call only sound off once and never again till you re-launch the program
Oops... That's my fault. Fixed in beta 0.4  :)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on December 07, 2011, 11:45:20 pm
The vLSO says something like that, too. Didn't you hear it?  ;)

Just got it, "beauty" for an OK3


-CAPT
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on December 08, 2011, 08:40:59 pm
CAPT...

Got that "beauty" for an OK, 3 pass last night. I usually fly at Fleet level but havent tried CAG level yet. Thatll wait for a few nights this weekend.

Serge...

I'm having problems with the Abeam distance call, still get "TOO CLOSE ABEAM" at 1.3 NM on the HUD. I'll try to get more passes, and give you a more comprehensive data set to work with. Obviously flying the Sludge, and doing the standard pattern. Not sure why I'm getting that but I do have a request for the next release. Can you make all the aircraft parameters (name/type/call abeam and [locus] info) selectable like you do with the "custom aircraft"? That way we can customize it.

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on December 09, 2011, 05:52:01 pm
I'm having problems with the Abeam distance call, still get "TOO CLOSE ABEAM" at 1.3 NM on the HUD.

Sludge,
Remember this discussion http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=3093.msg30177#msg30177 (http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=3093.msg30177#msg30177)? Look how this work with the vLSO...
The HUD shows the slant distance from your aircraft to the TACAN antenna, located at 205' AMSL. The vLSO computes the horizontal distance from the glideslope origin. Because of that this origin is some 280' afore, the slant distance between these reference points is about 350' (that's just for your information).

So, if you are at 1.24 nm abeam the GS origin (i.e. TCA for the Hornet), it will give us 7534' of horiz distance. However if your altitude at this position is 600', this equals to 7717' of slant distance, which is 1.27 nm, or 1.3 TCN on the HUD. And the higher altitude, the longer the slant distance...

Finally, the slant distance for 1.25 nm abeam at 600' AMSL should be 7777', or 1.28 nm, which is the same 1.3 TCN on the HUD. Bummer!...  ;D
That's why you shouldn't rely solely on TCN readings when flying abeam.

FYI. The HUD rounds TCN distances this way: 1.20 is 1.2, but 1.21 is 1.3 and 1.29 is 1.3 too....
Hope this helps...  :)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on December 09, 2011, 06:40:35 pm
Serge...

Quote
Remember this discussion http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=3093.msg30177#msg30177? Look how this work with the vLSO...

O yeah, I remember that discussion and I see what you're saying.

Quote
Finally, the slant distance for 1.25 nm abeam at 600' AMSL should be 7777', or 1.28 nm, which is the same 1.3 TCN on the HUD.
Bummer!...  That's why you shouldn't rely solely on TCN readings when flying abeam.

So I think we can just use 1.4 NM? The reason I'm asking is that what else do we use? We dont have an HSI readout (HSI w/TCN filter set @ 10 NM range setting;left wing of AC symbol on the carrier TCN) to help us get the correct starting abeam. I'm guessing 1.4 HUD TCN will be a good starting point and then go from there.

As JJ says: these are "training wheel" numbers. For me, these will help us non-real world naval aviator wannabe's get a good starting abeam position, so we can see the correct outside visuals (at the 90, crossing wake at 45; in FSX) that will let us fly good patterns once we get the feel of it.

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Orion on December 13, 2011, 05:11:47 am
Just curious: will the vLSO recognize J.R.'s Combat Hornet?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on December 13, 2011, 07:44:09 am
It will if its Atc_model is F18. If not, you can add one as a custom aircraft (see the PDF)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Orion on December 13, 2011, 08:00:09 am
Ah, clever.  Wonder why FSX doesn't use atc_model for better aircraft substitution...
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on December 15, 2011, 03:15:16 am
Serge,

Can I modify the .wav files in the sound folder, or are the audio files hard coded into the .exe now? Not sure if that changed in the beta updates, but it seems like it.

CAPT
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on December 15, 2011, 05:40:44 am
Yes, you can. Currently, at its startup, the program browses the Sound folder and randomly selects .wav files for different voice calls. I mean if there are more than one similar files, like RogerBall1, RogerBall2 etc., it randomly selects RogerBall3, for example. Just keep your new files reasonably short (about 1 sec) and follow my 'naming convention', i.e. NameX.wav where X is a consecutive number. By the way, the Name part is hardcoded.
Are you going to add some new wavs or edit the existing ones?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on December 15, 2011, 05:48:52 pm
The reason I asked is that I changed some of the .wav files in the sound folder, used the same naming convention you used to replace the original files, but I am still hearing the old .wav sounds when flying (e.g. you're high and you're slow), any thoughts?

-CAPT
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on December 15, 2011, 05:59:09 pm
That's because of random selection, I guess... The program makes it only once, at its startup. The easiest way to make sure your new files are ok is to (re)move all original files to a safe place, leaving only your files in the Sound folder, and run the program. You should hear your new sounds.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on December 15, 2011, 06:05:11 pm
Thanks Serge I'll give that a try!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on December 22, 2011, 06:13:41 pm
How do I get the debrief taken as a screenshot?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Orion on December 23, 2011, 01:04:10 am
How do I get the debrief taken as a screenshot?

Use the PrtScn key on your keyboard and save the image in your clipboard with the program of your choice (e.g. Microsoft Paint).
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on December 24, 2011, 04:18:23 am
Thanks.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Nike619 on December 31, 2011, 05:52:25 am
Okay guys, I have some serious questions here.

But first, Awesome Initiative. Can't wait to use it..

However, I can not get it to work, Brand new FSX Gold Install, Sludge 1.2, T45 V2, F-14D and The Default Whorenet and nothing will work, at all. I've read this thread twice. Trying all the fixes. Currently VLSO is installed to the Microsoft Games folder, I've opened before, after and during my flight, Will not work.  ???

Checked all the ATC_Models. All correct. All green on Simconnect as well. I'm at a dead end here.

Any ideas guys?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on December 31, 2011, 08:59:02 am
That's strange...
What beta version do you use?
Do you have both Simconnect and FSX indicators green? If yes, then everything's ok with your system setup.
Make sure that the Sound subfolder is present in your vLSO folder.
What carrier do you try to land on? Do you extend landing gear prior to that?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Razgriz on December 31, 2011, 09:00:54 am
Do you have FSX Acceleration installed?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Nike619 on December 31, 2011, 11:15:00 am
.3

Everything is green, And Javiers CVN68. Gear is down.

And Razgriz,

"Fresh FSX Gold Install"

Reading the post helps.

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Razgriz on December 31, 2011, 12:27:43 pm
.3

Everything is green, And Javiers CVN68. Gear is down.

And Razgriz,

"Fresh FSX Gold Install"

Reading the post helps.



The FSX Acceleration expansion pack is required.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on December 31, 2011, 03:56:24 pm
Microsoft Flight Simulator X: Gold Edition combines the Deluxe Edition and the Acceleration expansion pack into one.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Nike619 on December 31, 2011, 07:40:16 pm
.3

Everything is green, And Javiers CVN68. Gear is down.

And Razgriz,

"Fresh FSX Gold Install"

Reading the post helps.



The FSX Acceleration expansion pack is required.

As I said, Pays to know what you're talking about.

EDIT:

Haha! Success! Have no idea what changed but it's suddenly working! Great program guys.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Razgriz on January 01, 2012, 02:39:28 am
Microsoft Flight Simulator X: Gold Edition combines the Deluxe Edition and the Acceleration expansion pack into one.

ooooooooooooooooooops, I mixed up FSXGold with FSXDeluxe.. :P
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Orion on January 01, 2012, 02:49:31 am
ooooooooooooooooooops, I mixed up FSXGold with FSXDeluxe.. :P
Well, to be fair, Flight Simulator X Gold Edition does include Deluxe.  It just also includes Acceleration. :P
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Nike619 on January 02, 2012, 10:43:15 am
 ;D I freaking love this guys. Great work. Just found the catapult fix as well.

How about a session soon guys?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: fael097 on January 13, 2012, 06:18:47 am
guys, do you have any tips to keep the centerline? this was one of my best landings, but still a little tricky to keep centerline, as it's not aligned to the carrier's heading.

thanks
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Razgriz on January 13, 2012, 06:36:08 am
guys, do you have any tips to keep the centerline? this was one of my best landings, but still a little tricky to keep centerline, as it's not aligned to the carrier's heading.

thanks

When you're lined up, aim for the 'crotch' (at least that's what I think its called) of the ship.

Here's a picture of what I'm talking about:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9850355/crotch.png

A few reference videos:

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on January 13, 2012, 06:21:17 pm
Here's another picture of the "crotch". Sounds terrible I know  :-\

I've put a cartoon Flight Path Vector (HUD symbol) on the picture to show how you line up with this area using the FPV. Doing so accounts for the ship moving forward and the runway moving to the right.

Also one vLSO picture of how if this technique is used, you can fly mostly down the center for an OK3  8)

-CAPT
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on January 13, 2012, 11:07:29 pm
Had an approach and noticed when I didn't catch the wires that "Bolter, Bolter" did not come up on the radio. Can this be modified to happen in the event someone gets a wave off but continues anyway?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: aaron886 on January 21, 2012, 05:24:31 am
This is an awesome program! An excellent idea and great implementation.

Could this be extended to work with any ILS, to facilitate land-based operation or fixed scenery carriers?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: ESzczesniak on January 21, 2012, 09:31:33 pm
I only just noticed this program and must say it's fantastic.  Wish I had known about it earlier.  It is very nice to be able to analyze you landings.  Of course it helps that of two passes I've flown with it I boltered and followed it with an OK(underline), 3 wire using the fleet LSO  ;D.  Guess CAG LSO it will be.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 22, 2012, 03:10:31 pm
aaron886,

Could this be extended to work with any ILS, to facilitate land-based operation or fixed scenery carriers?

No, this program doesn't use ILS/TACAN data. It works with AI carriers only, both Acceleration and Javier Fernandez's. Other carriers, like user pilotable or static, are not supported due to their limited functionality, i.e. not working/not present OLS, catapults etc. I see no point in carrier landings without OLS visual references...  ;)
BTW, my two FCLP sceneries at KNJK and KNRA will be fully supported in future releases.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on February 02, 2012, 06:04:29 pm
Ok, guys
The beta 0.4 is here http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=4915.msg45464#msg45464 (http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=4915.msg45464#msg45464)

Feel free to comment/suggest/criticize  ;)

Happy langings!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on February 02, 2012, 08:34:13 pm
Thanks, Serge!

Really like the CASE III addition! Bravo Zulu ;D

-CAPT
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Orion on February 03, 2012, 05:57:23 am
Just had a go- my first carrier landing in a couple months; however, I have been taking real flying lessons lately.  Maybe it's rubbed off on my FS flying skills. ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Victory103 on February 03, 2012, 09:53:47 am
BZ to CASE III ops, could not find a way to post the CV-1 approach plate, but here is at least the voice calls one would be expecting to use/hear during CASE III:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/95/USNavy_CV1_approach_to_carrier.jpg/494px-USNavy_CV1_approach_to_carrier.jpg)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: theoklahomaaviator on February 03, 2012, 04:17:15 pm
I can't get .4 to work for me.  I have green for SimConnect and FSX when running, but no matter what I seem to try I can't get the LSO to talk behind the boat.  I'm using the Crowded Deck 2 Nimitz via aicarriers.  I do have my FS/Acceleration installed in C:\FSX rather than the normal program files folder.  Shouldn't matter I wouldn't think due to it indicating that it is connected to FS.  Any ideas?  Am I doing something wrong?  It was a fresh install and no other prior versions are present.  Thank you gentlemen!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on February 03, 2012, 04:37:43 pm
theoklahomaaviator,
Make sure that the Sound folder, as well as its subfolder Marshal, are in the same folder with the vLSO.exe.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: adiemus on February 03, 2012, 09:34:28 pm
Forgive me if I'm missing something obvious.

The only download link I can find is for 0.4, but doesn't include a manual, which I read was included in 0.3.

Combined with the instructions on the download post: "then copy/move it to a folder of your choice and replace the existing files" I'm wondering if all I've actually done is download an update archive, and am missing the complete package.

Does downloading the 0.4 archive provide a complete install or do I need something else first?

(I am able to make graded passes, sometimes, but the intermittent functionality I'm guessing is likely related to my potentially incomplete installation)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: theoklahomaaviator on February 03, 2012, 09:58:44 pm
theoklahomaaviator,
Make sure that the Sound folder, as well as its subfolder Marshal, are in the same folder with the vLSO.exe.

I have both folders placed properly within the vLSO folder and vLSO run as administrator.  I would like to try to revert to v0.3 in attempts to isolate the problem to 0.4, but I don't have an old copy available.  Suggestions are more than welcome! This is a great piece of software and it only gets better! Thank You!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: MikeB54 on February 04, 2012, 02:33:16 am
Forgive me if I'm missing something obvious.

The only download link I can find is for 0.4, but doesn't include a manual, which I read was included in 0.3.

Combined with the instructions on the download post: "then copy/move it to a folder of your choice and replace the existing files" I'm wondering if all I've actually done is download an update archive, and am missing the complete package.

Does downloading the 0.4 archive provide a complete install or do I need something else first?

(I am able to make graded passes, sometimes, but the intermittent functionality I'm guessing is likely related to my potentially incomplete installation)

Adiemus,

The 0.4 is a complete release, minus the manual that was included in 0.3.  If you want to private message me your email address I will send it to you.

Mike
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on February 04, 2012, 08:28:44 am
Guys,
The manual is now attached to the first message, so you can get it there.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Orion on February 04, 2012, 09:28:54 am
Two things:

1. Can you add a font option in the ini file?  I don't care for the handwritten style, and whatever it defaults to without it doesn't really suit my tastes either.
2. Was I supposed to get a "Ball call" speech bubble type thing on the debrief page (see screenshots on the top of this page, attached to my post)?

Edit: Just saw the comment in the manual- so the ball call speech bubble only applies to the manually trigger?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on February 04, 2012, 09:35:38 am
1. Can you add a font option in the ini file?  I don't care for the handwritten style, and whatever it defaults to without it doesn't really suit my tastes either.
2. Was I supposed to get a "Ball call" speech bubble type thing on the debrief page (see screenshots on the top of this page, attached to my post)?

1. Actually it is already there, but not enabled (nobody requested that until now). Will make it active in the 0.5 release.  :)
2. Assign a manual ball key (see the pdf) and you'll get that bubble.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Victory103 on February 06, 2012, 05:12:48 pm
Love the CASE III, even if it is basic right now. Might be a small detail, but like the manual ball call, anyway to "manually" call needles? Still getting a "Too Close Abeam" out to 1.5nm, which looks far from the cockpit, different site picture I guess and test this more.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SandPro on February 06, 2012, 06:19:29 pm
Great job.   Really working well.

Small issue.... every once in a while, I am seeing an error box pop up:
    vLSO 0.4b      Range Check error.       

Not sure what the issue is.   I have noticed I did loose the abeam paddles call... even in range .. after that.

Keep up the great work.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: texxasal on February 08, 2012, 06:33:21 pm
A small request to the developer;

can the voice "calls" be routed to the FSX "VOICE" sound device rather than the "SOUNDS" device?

It currently comes out with the engines, cockpit, and environment stuff to my speakers, while all my radio traffic (which I would assume the "calls" to be) such as ATIS and atc, are routed to my headphones.

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on February 08, 2012, 08:28:54 pm
Serge...

Quote
A small request to the developer; can the voice "calls" be routed to the FSX "VOICE" sound device rather than the "SOUNDS" device?

I've been meaning to ask the same thing but was gonna wait til you weren't as busy w/the vLSO. Also, if you can re-route the Betty stuff in the same way, would be much appreciated as all your work is here.

Using Doug's Sound gauge, he said it was possible. Here was my similar request at FSDEVELOPER.

http://fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=140127 (http://fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=140127)

Thanks
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: jimi08 on February 08, 2012, 09:31:11 pm
This is one amazing product you have put together!  You have really brought carrier op in FSX up to the next level.  I know many have already said it, but THANKS.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Orion on February 08, 2012, 11:49:22 pm
I doubt it.  Perhaps changing the audio device the vLSO plays on, but not routing it through FSX.  Doug Dawson's sound gauge has nothing to do with the vLSO, as it's simply an interface for XML gauges to play sounds.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: texxasal on February 09, 2012, 12:53:53 am
It really doesn't matter how it gets done, just so we can get the sound of radio traffic from controllers routed to our choice of location. In my case it sounds pretty silly to have the LSO coming out of the surround-sound instead of my headset. I know they yell a lot, but not above jet engine and airplane noise at 3/4 of a mile. :D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Herbie on February 09, 2012, 06:34:01 am
In FSX under Sound Setting, there are 4 sliders: Engine, Cockpit. Environment and Voice. Set your sliders to 24,55,45,70 try this, also below under Windows Sound Devices: Set Sounds to Speaker and Voice to Headphone. If this dos not separate the 2 voices, you may need a Sound-card and Motherboard sound ship. This give you 2 sound sources. Herb
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: wilycoyote4 on February 09, 2012, 07:06:11 pm
found some time to do a coupla flights, really like beta 4, thanks
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: neutrino on February 09, 2012, 09:22:42 pm
I finally had a chance to test the vLSO - what can I say, it makes you want to fly again and again :D Great work, Serge, thanks for the amazing product!

I wanted to post a screenshot with a nice landing, but ended up making a whole 2m50s video ;D I hope you enjoy it, the vLSO briefing pages are at the end of the video - the landing was recorded live with FRAPS:

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: micro on February 10, 2012, 01:12:51 am
Very, Very nice!  :o
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: MikeB54 on February 10, 2012, 01:26:41 am
Guys,

I'm having a bit of a problem that isn't specifically a vLSO problem, but it's related to it.  I know it's a PC problem, I just haven't been able to fix it.

When vLSO starts it starts way off to the right with half of the vLSO window off the screen.  It's a simple enough thing to drag it back to the left, but it's getting annoying and I would like to resolve it, if possible.  The Debrief window does the same thing.

If anyone has any suggestions, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks,

Mike
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Orion on February 10, 2012, 03:55:03 am
Nice video, J.R.! 8)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on February 10, 2012, 10:16:52 am
Wow this looks good, nice video neutrino.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on February 10, 2012, 10:31:19 am
Whats Case 1/2/3 etc? Sorry I'm still a noob at this techo jargon. ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: MikeB54 on February 10, 2012, 01:34:18 pm
This describes recovery operations pretty well:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_United_States_Navy_carrier_air_operations#Recovery_operations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_United_States_Navy_carrier_air_operations#Recovery_operations)

Mike
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: wilycoyote4 on February 10, 2012, 08:35:26 pm
This describes recovery operations pretty well:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_United_States_Navy_carrier_air_operations#Recovery_operations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_United_States_Navy_carrier_air_operations#Recovery_operations)

Mike
excellent, thanks again Mike
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on February 10, 2012, 11:12:25 pm
This describes recovery operations pretty well:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_United_States_Navy_carrier_air_operations#Recovery_operations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_United_States_Navy_carrier_air_operations#Recovery_operations)

Mike

Thanks thats very useful.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on February 10, 2012, 11:37:51 pm
Wow 0.4 rocks that is getting very good I'm getting very good landings with it. So whats the deal with CASE II and III? How does vLSO recognise these conditions and give the pilots vector to the stack? I'm thinking perhaps a Carrier ATC could be added since FSX supports missions having options this would involve some editing by a mission maker but you could have slightly more added to it for immersion perhaps T45 trainning mission using both vLSO and a mission script with AI wingmen.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on February 11, 2012, 12:36:01 am
After looking at this:



Maybe FSDT should work with Javier, Orion and FSX Navy pilot and make the ultimate carrier addon payware with animated crew etc. I'd buy it ;D.

Another good idea how about a military base version as well. ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: wilycoyote4 on February 11, 2012, 12:54:56 am
neutrino @
Super vid, really liked it, learned from it, thanks aplenty

SUBS17 @
I think Aerosoft has a similiar system ----AES--- released some months ago.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on February 11, 2012, 11:21:16 pm
Sweet I'll buy it if anyone makes such a mod.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on February 12, 2012, 08:06:49 am
I can't get .4 to work for me.  I have green for SimConnect and FSX when running, but no matter what I seem to try I can't

Make sure that the Sound folder, as well as its subfolder Marshal, are in the same folder with the vLSO.exe.

I have both folders placed properly within the vLSO folder and vLSO run as administrator.

Gentlemen,

Been trying to make 'vLSO' run since yesterday but am not able to.

Have read through the complete thread, and have 'tried' to learn from about everything that is posted here, but no joy.

FWIW, the last version that worked for me was ver 2. I didn't check out ver 3 at all. I made sure that I delete the old folder before installing (copying) the new folder.

vLSO is installed in C:/vLSO path. All sub-folders are positioned correctly. The exe.dll is modified to ensure that vLSO starts/shut down automatically with FSX. The program starts, and I see all the 'greens' for FSX/Sim Connect, but it doesn't grade any landings.

I have tested it out only with VRS SH till now, and not with any other plane.

Any help is appreciated.

Happy landings.

Mickey
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on February 13, 2012, 07:33:20 am
Mickey,

1) Do you fly with manual ball enabled? If yes, vLSO won't monitor your approach until you press a manual ball key being in the groove.
2) If not, make sure you roll into the groove prior to 3/4.
3) Try another aircraft (the Sludge or Goshawk). However, no Superbug driver has complained yet
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on February 13, 2012, 03:19:07 pm
Dear FSXNP,

I thank you for your response.

I was just about to make a post in response to my own post, but you beat me to it. I think, I have figured out the 'what' of the issue, even though I have no clue as to the 'why' of the issue.

My sim was set up such that VRS Rhino was the default airplane (instead of the Aircreation trike). When I started a flight, and loaded in with the 'bug', the vLSO did not work for me. I made the above mentioned post, since I had not tested out any other airplane.

Later, when I changed my airplane to Dino's T45, the vLSO started to work. I reloaded the flight with VRS Bug again, the vLSO continues to work.

Bottomline....If I load a flight with VRS Bug, vLSO doesn't work. But, if I load the flight with any other airplane, it works.

I have no clue 'why', but that's how it works.

1) Do you fly with manual ball enabled? If yes, vLSO won't monitor your approach until you press a manual ball key being in the groove.

I am not sure, what is correct response to this query.
When I look into the vLSO.ini, I find that ManualBall=O & ManualBallKey=TOGGLE_WATER_RUDDER entries are 'not commented'. Notwithstanding, I hear the LSO call the ball automatically, and I do not need to press the 'Control+W' to manually call the ball.


2) If not, make sure you roll into the groove prior to 3/4.

With my flying skills, I roll into the groove prior to 2 miles, lol.

3) Try another aircraft (the Sludge or Goshawk).
Did that sir. Should have done that myself, before making the post.

However, no Superbug driver has complained yet

I am certain that my 'bug' is more 'buggy' than others. I have made posts on various 'typical' issues on VRS support forums too. But, since these are issues I can live with, I haven't pursued them much. For example, whenever, I load the VRS Bug into a session and do my 'rig' check, my left engine flames out. Each and every time. This is something that doesn't happen with any other bug driver I know, but it does with me.

I figure, who ever (or whatever) switches off my left engine, is the one who scares the vLSO away too.

Never mind sir. Your package is 'awesome'. The bug is in my setup. If nothing else, this post will serve to help some other blokes like me.

Happy landings.

Mickey
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on February 14, 2012, 04:07:27 am
Mickey,
Yes, there's definitely something very strange about your Superbug setup. Perhaps a complete reinstall of the SH (or even FSX) will fix the problem?
Anyways, much thanks for your feedback, I really appreciate it. It helps me to make vLSO perfect, because Don’t be afraid of perfection – you can never reach it  ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on February 14, 2012, 02:51:45 pm
Perhaps a complete reinstall of the SH (or even FSX) will fix the problem?;D

(http://i842.photobucket.com/albums/zz345/AviaScorp/download.jpg)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on February 16, 2012, 03:54:08 pm
Serge,

I was thinking the FCLP and "nugget" vLSO could include LSO calls/corrections that start from the 180, I know this is no small task, but based on real world T-45 qual videos, you hear the LSO giving calls helping pilots fly the correct pattern from the 180 to the groove. Just a thought.

Here is a video I created that tried to mimic a real world video, crazy how similar they are  ;)



-CAPT
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on February 17, 2012, 08:24:03 am
Guys,
The beta 0.5 is here http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=4915.msg45464#msg45464 (http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=4915.msg45464#msg45464)

This time only a minor cosmetic change - customizable logbook font, as per Orion's request.  :)
And a modified PDF, indeed...

I was thinking the FCLP and "nugget" vLSO could include LSO calls/corrections that start from the 180 ... Just a thought.

I'll think about it. There's also SHB call on the list...  ;)

can the voice "calls" be routed to the FSX "VOICE" sound device rather than the "SOUNDS" device?

It currently comes out with the engines, cockpit, and environment stuff to my speakers, while all my radio traffic (which I would assume the "calls" to be) such as ATIS and atc, are routed to my headphones.

Yes, it's easy. Just assign FSX "Voice" to your system's primary audio device (see Control panel) and FSX "Sounds" to your secondary audio device. This way, vLSO will 'speak' on the same channel with ATC (because vLSO always uses primary audio device), not with engines...
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Orion on February 17, 2012, 08:34:07 am
Nice, thanks. :)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on February 17, 2012, 10:15:34 am
Serge...

Quote
Yes, it's easy. Just assign FSX "Voice" to your system's primary audio device (see Control panel) and FSX "Sounds" to your secondary audio device. This way, vLSO will 'speak' on the same channel with ATC (because vLSO always uses primary audio device), not with engines...

This didn't work for me.

Just to make sure we are on the same page and avoid any confusion:

In my FSX setup, I have 5.1 speakers (primary Windows audio device) and a headset/mic (secondary Windows audio device). Before doing your change, the externals (engines, cockpit noises, etc) played out of the 5.1 speakers, along with the vLSO voice comms; the only thing I got in my headset was ATC comms ("cessna n2743, contact socal approach...").

After trying your fix, I had ATC and vLSO coming out of the 5.1 speakers; and the externals now play thru the headset. It seems that vLSO will only play from the main speakers no matter how the FSX sound setup occurs.

My request, along with TEX' as well, is can we get vLSO to always play in the secondary audio device? So we can have this setup (5.1 speakers=externals; headset=ATC w/vLSO). Not sure how that would affect people who use 2.0/5.1 speakers for all FSX sounds but if its too much pain or cant work, just say so and I'll let it go.

Thanks
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on February 17, 2012, 11:33:06 am
After trying your fix, I had ATC and vLSO coming out of the 5.1 speakers; and the externals now play thru the headset. It seems that vLSO will only play from the main speakers no matter how the FSX sound setup occurs.

Yes, vLSO always plays sounds via system's main audio card (the one you set first in the Control panel). The idea was to use this output device for voice comms and the secondary audio device for other sounds. So your headset should be plugged into the main sound card and the speakers into the secondary (number two in the Control panel). In FSX you just reassign 'voice' and 'sounds', if required...

Quote from: Sludge
My request, along with TEX' as well, is can we get vLSO to always play in the secondary audio device? So we can have this setup (5.1 speakers=externals; headset=ATC w/vLSO). Not sure how that would affect people who use 2.0/5.1 speakers for all FSX sounds but if its too much pain or cant work, just say so and I'll let it go.

I couldn't manage to do that, but still hope...  ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on February 17, 2012, 06:57:30 pm
Serge...

Quote
Yes, vLSO always plays sounds via system's main audio card (the one you set first in the Control panel). The idea was to use this output device for voice comms and the secondary audio device for other sounds. So your headset should be plugged into the main sound card and the speakers into the secondary (number two in the Control panel). In FSX you just reassign 'voice' and 'sounds', if required...

OK, I see what you're saying. Bummer, probly wont be able to get this to work, as I have my sound card powering the main speakers and my USB headset is completely independent of the soundcard both physically and in Windows. Oh well.

Thanks for trying. Keep up the improvements to this great program.

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: jetjam619 on February 18, 2012, 07:18:19 am
Tried it and got an Underlined OK  3Wire on my second trap..........great update.....
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on February 20, 2012, 05:23:54 am
Case 3 approaches are quite cool I did some today and the radio coms is quite good.


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/SUBS17/CASE31.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/SUBS17/CASE32.jpg)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: sonofabeech on February 20, 2012, 10:00:25 am
Subs...I see you left the next photo out ...the one of you being crapped on by the LSO for landing after being waved off  ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on February 20, 2012, 10:40:18 pm
 ;D

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/SUBS17/The_simpsons_homer_simpson_vs_famil.jpg)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: syn on February 24, 2012, 04:22:53 pm
I was testing the latest beta, great job!

Still having some problems with Dino's T-45 and Javier's Nimitz though. I can only trap on the 4th wire if I don't want to get a (LO)AR (and I still get tons) and I even did some bolters when the debrief shows a perfect glideslope (and no, I'm not flaring!).

Am I the only one with this problem?

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: neutrino on February 25, 2012, 01:19:38 pm
I was testing the latest beta, great job!

Still having some problems with Dino's T-45 and Javier's Nimitz though. I can only trap on the 4th wire if I don't want to get a (LO)AR (and I still get tons) and I even did some bolters when the debrief shows a perfect glideslope (and no, I'm not flaring!).

Am I the only one with this problem?



Same things happens on my landings with the T-45. I assume the glideslope plane must be lowered for the T-45. If it is calibrated to the F/A-18, the T-45 because it is smaller will pass the 3rd wire and catch the fourth (or bolter), or if you want to stay on the ball and catch 3rd wire, you will get (LO)AR.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on February 25, 2012, 05:57:36 pm
Yes, that's right. Different aircraft have different Hook-to-Eye distances, so the glideslope must be adjusted for each H/E. In real life the LSO uses IFLOLS lens roll axis to compensate for that. The roll angle is increased when changing from an aircraft with a small H/E to an aircraft with a larger H/E. In FSX we have the glideslope, which is hardcoded and set for the Hornet. That's why you have to fly a little low to catch #3 wire in the Goshawk.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on February 25, 2012, 08:42:26 pm
Just to add another graphic to fsxnp explanation. The PDF url no longer works - perhaps the
PDF can be found elsewhere:

RHE-NAV-90-TR-1 | OUTER-LOOP CONTROL FACTORS FOR CARRIER AIRCRAFT by Robert K. Heffley

http://robertheffleyengineering.com/docs/CV_environ/RHE_NAV_90_TR_1.pdf

Other excerpts from this PDF are available on this forum here:

CarrierLanding+LSOstuff only RHE_NAV_90_TR_1.pdf (.3Mb) - all the very long URL must be cut/pasted or otherwise find the thread with this info.

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=rhe-nav-90-tr-1%20outer-loop%20control%20factors%20for%20carrier%20aircraft%20by%20robert%20k.%20heffley&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCgQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fsdreamteam.com%2Fforum%2Findex.php%3Faction%3Ddlattach%3Btopic%3D3211.0%3Battach%3D9153&ei=4TlJT-jOIa6YiAe11oi1Dg&usg=AFQjCNG_-2bQc7GZmfpaMpeDvbiij_gSgQ&sig2=ihyqVrvmP42wH_Vd0c1c8Q
_________________

In meantime have found new website for Heffley docs: http://www.robertheffley.com/pages/lib.htm#Aircraft%20Design

Sadly this doc not available there now. I dunno.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Jonathan livingston on February 26, 2012, 12:37:06 pm
Yes, that's right. Different aircraft have different Hook-to-Eye distances, so the glideslope must be adjusted for each H/E. In real life the LSO uses IFLOLS lens roll axis to compensate for that. The roll angle is increased when changing from an aircraft with a small H/E to an aircraft with a larger H/E. In FSX we have the glideslope, which is hardcoded and set for the Hornet. That's why you have to fly a little low to catch #3 wire in the Goshawk.

Hello,
I wonder what is the most realistic "Locus.GS" to put in the .ini for glideslope  with a F/A-18E of VRS. Original, Nugget, ... ?
Thanks for your help.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on March 02, 2012, 07:27:46 am
Just tested 0.5 with SFCARRIERS2.5 and found the LSO did not work.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: syn on March 05, 2012, 02:58:04 am
I was blaming the H-E distance as the main cause of not getting OKs at all, but actually it seems it had nothing to do with it. I just realized that I was getting (OK)s with the T-45 for late ball calls (manual ball call enabled) as I was rolling wings level at about .6NM. If I lengthen my groove to .75-.8NM I get OKs as well with Dino's T-45.

However this results in longer than desirable groove times (~25 sec while CV NATOPS and CQ instructions say 15-18 ideally), doesn't it?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SandPro on March 07, 2012, 02:42:22 pm
Range Check Error:

Re: vLSO Beta release « Reply #206 on: February 06, 2012, 06:19:29 PM »
Every once in a while, I am seeing an error box pop up:    vLSO 0.4b      Range Check error.   


vLSO: 05b   Still see the Range Check error... as I reported on 2/6.  Any idea what is causing this ?
   
   

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: MikeB54 on March 07, 2012, 10:17:01 pm
I get the Range Check errors on occasion myself.  I think it is when I wait too long after a launch to start my turn to downwind.  My guess is that the error is generated when you fly outside the airspace monitored by the program.

Mike
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: tpollen on March 08, 2012, 10:20:01 am
Great little addon, here's a little video I took today:

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on March 08, 2012, 11:33:06 pm
Cool video.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: ExNusquam on March 09, 2012, 04:15:59 am
I was blaming the H-E distance as the main cause of not getting OKs at all, but actually it seems it had nothing to do with it. I just realized that I was getting (OK)s with the T-45 for late ball calls (manual ball call enabled) as I was rolling wings level at about .6NM. If I lengthen my groove to .75-.8NM I get OKs as well with Dino's T-45.

However this results in longer than desirable groove times (~25 sec while CV NATOPS and CQ instructions say 15-18 ideally), doesn't it?

26 seconds in the groove and it still gave me a fair.

(http://i.imgur.com/OoDEJ.png)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on March 09, 2012, 09:25:24 am
(http://i.imgur.com/OoDEJ.png)

The 'only' way I can get this debrief window is through 'Photoshop',  :D.

Awesome flying Joe!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: syn on March 09, 2012, 04:12:00 pm
26 seconds in the groove and it still gave me a fair.

Joe, try shooting a straight in approach instead of a case I pattern and call the ball ASAP and you will see what I mean. That's how I realized that turning to a 15-18 second groove (around .6 DME ball call) seems to be somehow affecting the grading algorithm.

Edit: typo
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: mjrhealth on March 09, 2012, 09:17:33 pm
I am enjoying this, my carrier landings are getting better thanks for the hard work. One question, would there be a chance to work with the guys from RFN to get it working with the Clemencau with french accent, thanks again.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on March 10, 2012, 07:21:49 am
I run my FSX on a two monitor setup, and my vLSO is configured to start/shut down automatically with the FSX.

The issue I'm facing is that, for some reason vLSO considers both my monitors to be one single monitor and starts 'centered'. So, what I see is that one half (left) of vLSO shows up on one monitor and the other half (right) shows up on the other monitor.

While, I drag the program window to my secondary monitor, but it does the same with 'debrief windows' too, and, over a period of time, it kinda gets to be a bother.

I was trying to upload some screen shots...but for some reason, my photobucket account is not working correctly.

Is there a setting/flag that I could tweak and ensure that vLSO only shows up on my secondary monitor.

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Herbie on March 10, 2012, 07:25:15 pm
I run my FSX on a two monitor setup, and my vLSO is configured to start/shut down automatically with the FSX.

The issue I'm facing is that, for some reason vLSO considers both my monitors to be one single monitor and starts 'centered'. So, what I see is that one half (left) of vLSO shows up on one monitor and the other half (right) shows up on the other monitor.

While, I drag the program window to my secondary monitor, but it does the same with 'debrief windows' too, and, over a period of time, it kinda gets to be a bother.

I was trying to upload some screen shots...but for some reason, my photobucket account is not working correctly.

Is there a setting/flag that I could tweak and ensure that vLSO only shows up on my secondary monitor.

Thanks in advance
quote]


Hello Mickey!
What O/P? Windows 7/64bit? I have my set under Multiple Display to: "Extend this displays" I can drag it over no problem. One problem could be, you can't re-size the vLSO window and it's to big for a small monitor. It won't fit my old 15". Try it out. Herb
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: mjrhealth on March 10, 2012, 11:29:52 pm
Herbie, its not the dragging over he says is the problem, what he is saying is it always starts in the middle, he would refer it started on the right screen. A bit like thunderbird etc, if you close it on the right screen it will open next time on the right screen it remembers its last positions, if you open a new email it too will open on the right screen. It isnt a major issue,but would be nice.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Herbie on March 11, 2012, 02:33:38 am
Herbie, its not the dragging over he says is the problem, what he is saying is it always starts in the middle, he would refer it started on the right screen. A bit like thunderbird etc, if you close it on the right screen it will open next time on the right screen it remembers its last positions, if you open a new email it too will open on the right screen. It isnt a major issue,but would be nice.

I read yours and yes my windows 2nd monitor on the right side, if I close with a program in the window, it will start-up the same. See setting above. Herb
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on March 11, 2012, 06:41:38 am
Herbie, its not the dragging over he says is the problem, what he is saying is it always starts in the middle, he would refer it started on the right screen. A bit like thunderbird etc, if you close it on the right screen it will open next time on the right screen it remembers its last positions, if you open a new email it too will open on the right screen. It isnt a major issue,but would be nice.

mjrhealth,

You are right. Dragging the vLSO window is not the problem.
I am running Windows 7 64bit on a i7 920 (not OC). A picture of my two monitor setup is as shown below:-

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/--TCvqMYFT9o/T1w5WInJEsI/AAAAAAAADIo/hmqyt6a16ok/s821/vLSO2%2520desktop%2520settings.png)

The part of vLSO main screen that shows up on my left monitor is as below:

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-nb9rRPeo__w/T1w5VB27GsI/AAAAAAAADIk/JRW1qnl-VcA/s576/vLSO1.png) and the rest of program window shows up on my second monitor as below:

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ziMJIYFSkAU/T1w5WpqaUOI/AAAAAAAADIw/M6QBWV__cUU/s576/vLSO2.png)

And, like you observed, dragging the window is not a problem. I'm able to move it where ever I want, on either of the monitors. However, unlike other programs, which remember which monitor they were open on, when closed. vLSO doesn't seem to remember its position, and always starts 'centered' between the two monitors. It's the same issue with the 'debrief' windows too. They too start up centered between both the monitors.


I think 'herb' was trying to show me some settings, but I'm not able to understand them at this moment.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on March 11, 2012, 07:10:43 am
Guys,
the new 0.6 beta is here http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=4915.msg45464#msg45464 (http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=4915.msg45464#msg45464)

Happy landings!  ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: mjrhealth on March 11, 2012, 09:19:53 am
Tried the new version, having the LSO in headphones is so much nicer, but still the program always opens on the left screen it does not remember the place it was closed, right screen. Thanks for all the hard work, having fun with this. well i will do when i stop getting wave offs.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on March 11, 2012, 09:26:28 am
mjrhealth,
Please tell me more about your setup. What is your desktop's resolution? After you have placed the program on the right screen and quit the program, open the vLSO.ini (with Notepad for example) and see what are the Top and Left params?

Edit: I have modified the 0.6b, which now should address the muli-monitor issue. Those, who have more that one monitor, please report if this works ok or not on your multi-monitor / multi-videocard systems. Thanks!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: texxasal on March 11, 2012, 05:41:45 pm
Sir,
Thank you very much for the updates to vLSO. They are extremely helpful and add to the convenience and usability of the product. :D

BTW, I run an ATI 5870 EyeFinity 3-monitor image (3x22" monitors resolved to a single image of 5760x1080). Once I "found" where Windows7 put the vLSO, I moved it to where I wanted it, and now it comes up in the same place where it was shutdown. No more "Treasure Hunt". ;D

My son who shares my "man-cave" really appreciate not having to listen to my being "waved off" over and over, while he's reaching field marshall level in MW3 or BF3 or whatever it is that he's doing. The sound routing is really neat. :)

When you get around to the "export to Greenie Board" function, can you please make it possible to specify the dataset and folder for the destination? The reason I make the request is my group will be using vLSO for currency, and I would like the ability to combine the various individual outputs into a single Green Board for each squadron.

What would be an "Ultimate" Enhancement would be the ability to run vLSO on a Multi-Player server, and have it record the traps for all the players onto a single Green Board.

Under the VRS Superbug "TacPack" we have the ability for the host to spawn and control a Javier's carrier for all mp players to utilize with full functionality (Tacan, ILS, Ball, Cats, etc.) for everyone.

Thanks again for a great product.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: mjrhealth on March 11, 2012, 08:03:31 pm
I just run2 wide screen monitors, off 2 different video cards, will check resolution when i get home, and the b version. Thanks again.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: mjrhealth on March 12, 2012, 09:21:41 am
Hi have a GTX 560TI and 8800GTX at 1920 X 1080,

VLSO ini has

[Main]
CommMode=0
LSOlevel=0
OnscreenMsg=1
Callsign=BusyB
SoundCard=Speakers (Creative SB X-Fi)
Top=161
Left=2085
Monitor=1

Changed monitor to 2 and it didnt change anything. And I shut down both from the quit button and the usual widows X

Thanks
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on March 12, 2012, 10:51:25 am
mjrhealth,
so, does vLSO start from where it was closed or no?
BTW, monitors are numbered starting from 0, i.e. your first monitor is 0, the seconds is 1, etc.

Are your two video cards merged into one big desktop of 3840x1080?

Thanks!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on March 12, 2012, 06:15:42 pm
FSXNP,

Same issue as mjrhealth with me too.

Just to check if vLSO was writing to my ini correctly, I changed the values for call sign, sound card etc, and it updates the ini file correctly.
I have a two monitor setup as well (please refer my post #261 above).

The ini file has Monitor=1 setup, but the vLSO ALWAYS starts of monitor '0'.


Edit:

No matter which monitor I place the vLSO window, when I shut it down, it resets the ini file to Monitor=0, and that's where it starts the next time. Even if I manually edit the ini file the vLSO window still starts on monitor 1
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on March 12, 2012, 06:31:10 pm
Did a little more testing with this 'glitch' FSXNP.

I moved the vLSO window around on the primary monitor (monitor 0) and closed it. No matter where I placed the window on the primary monitor, it always remembered its position while starting again.

Next, I moved the window to extend a little to the secondary monitor (monitor 1), and then progressively a little more to the secondary monitor.
What I see is that, as long as, any small part of the window remains on the primary monitor, even if it is just the teeny weeny left boundary of the window, it still remembers its position, when you start it again. However, the moment you move the window completely to the secondary monitor, it looses its memory, and defaults to left edge of primary monitor.

Hope that helps and provides you with any additional clues to help you debug this glitch.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Herbie on March 12, 2012, 07:15:19 pm
Here is my monitor set-up. What i said before about the vLSO screen, I can Not re-size it like other windows, It will not fit on my second 15" Monitor. See screen-shot, all info is there. Herb
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: mjrhealth on March 12, 2012, 08:01:22 pm
I run them as seperate monitors. The Ini shows monitor 1, but it always starts on the left monitor, even if i drag it to the right monitor, and quit from there, it will restart on the left.Isnt programming fun.

thanks for all your hard work.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on March 13, 2012, 11:15:24 am
Guys,
Thanks for your feedback. Looks like I've finally managed to fix this multi-monitor glitch. Please download this 0.61 beta http://www.gamefront.com/files/21424691/vLSO_6.1.zip (http://www.gamefront.com/files/21424691/vLSO_6.1.zip) (only the executable in there, so just replace your current 0.6 exe) and make sure it works ok. If it does, I'll replace my main download pack.
On my two-monitor, one-videocard, test setup here it runs as planned.  :)
Sorry for any inconveniences...

Next, I plan to make the program's windows resizable a bit, as per Herbie's request.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on March 13, 2012, 04:42:49 pm
Thank you FSXNP.

Preliminary tests suggest that it works, quite nicely now.

The reason I say 'preliminary' is because, there is another problem I face with vLSO, which I think is peculiar to my computer and I shall cover it a little later. Due t this problem, I'm not able to 'conclusively' test the 0.61b version.

But, it seemingly works as intended.

Thank you again.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on March 13, 2012, 07:29:05 pm
FSXNP,

Further to my post#274 above.

Please see the attached picture

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-8ZsuD4jrxW8/T1-Pf-6qQtI/AAAAAAAAABA/iQlBfQe3o8c/s1209/vLSO3.png)

Do you notice that the whole vLSO window is enclosed by a 'red' box. In the earlier versions of vLSO, I would see this box, every once in a while. But, with the latest 0.61b release, this box shows up each and every time I start vLSO. It doesn't matter, if I start it by using its desktop shortcut or it starts automatically with FSX.

Whenever this red box shows around vLSO, the program automatically quits after about 45 odd seconds. When the program is running in this red window, it doesn't save any changes that I make either (changes to call sign, audio device etc).

The UAC on my computer is off, and I run vLSO with admin privileges.

I'm at my wits end trying to figure out what is not working? Can you figure it out.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on March 13, 2012, 08:15:52 pm
Further to my post above.

Did a little more testing.

While releasing the ver 0.6b, you had released another 'exe' file for multi-monitor setup. I just tested the vLSO with both versions of vLSO.exe file for 0.6b version, and they work absolutely fine (except the window placement thingy).

However, the 0.61b version does not run for more than 45 seconds on my computer. It always starts with that red box around the program window, and automatically shuts down after a while. So, I'm guessing, whatever the issue is...its with the 0.61b version of the file.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on March 14, 2012, 03:25:53 am
Mickey_Techy,
That's strange... Never seen that red frame myself, neither heard about it before. The only difference between 0.6 and 0.61 versions is that 'always primary monitor placement' glitch removed.

Does this frame only appear when you start vLSO on your secondary monitor?

Edit: I have just run the program on a Win7 64 single-monitor system - no red frame, no 45 sec shutdown.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: mjrhealth on March 14, 2012, 09:05:48 am
Works fine, thanks again. that red line could be antivirus, avast did originally run it in a sandbox, once i changed it to open normally it was fine. Mind you i did not see the red box.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on March 14, 2012, 02:01:20 pm
Does this frame only appear when you start vLSO on your secondary monitor?

Nope. It didn't matter, if the window was on the primary monitor or the secondary. On the 0.61b version, the red frame/45sec shutdown happened each and every time.

...that red line could be antivirus, avast did originally run it in a sandbox, once i changed it to open normally it was fine....

That was awesome mjrhealth.

It WAS an Avast sandbox issue. On your clue, I created an exclusion in the sand box and now vLSO works like a charm.

Thank you FSXNP/mjrhealth for the headsup.

The issue is now conclusively solved.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on March 14, 2012, 06:20:31 pm
Lovely!
Is this Avast issue worth mentioning in the manual? Looks like other antiviruses are not that suspicious  ;D

Herbie,
what is the resolution of your 15" monitor? My program's main window is 1187x701 and if it doesn't fit in your 15" screen, I guess its resolution is good old 800x600. I'm going to limit resizing of the window to these minimums.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on March 14, 2012, 07:23:48 pm
....Is this Avast issue worth mentioning in the manual? Looks like other antiviruses are not that suspicious....

I propose, "Yes".

There is no harm with additional information. If I faced this issue, at some point in time, there might be another bloke who might face it too. And, if the fix is already there in the manual, it is additional help info already available.

Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Herbie on March 14, 2012, 07:33:28 pm
My 15" Monitor runs at 1024X768. Thank You for your nice program you made. If I could re-size, that would be nice, but I can live without it too.
Those fellows with problems, I wounder how bad is their Hardrive, what I mean is Defraging as per Nick. Google for: "New FSX set up guide from Nick Needham" exception is a SSD Hardrive. Herb
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: robertorizzo on March 14, 2012, 09:06:04 pm
I can't get vLSO working.

Hi guys,
I downloaded it one week ago but i can't get it working.
Or, it just worked the very first time i used it with Dino's Goshawk, since then my logbook remains blank, no screen messages, no sound messages. FlightSim, onscreen messages, Simconnect and Manual ball call windows all green, (yes I pressed CTRL+W). Here's a pic of my screen with vLSO window and FSX. The same with F-14 and E-2. Nope. Running as Admin. The prob aroused after i deleted the first (and only) line of the logbook. Since then not a landing has been tracked and logged. Tried .5 and .61 versions. Avira antivirus both on and off, it doesn't change.
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertorizzo/6836667372/)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertorizzo/6836667372/

I must say the first time i executed the vLSo, i always got a message from FSX for permission, but now I no more get them.
It seems to me that even if the green fsx box is ok, the two programs do not "talk" togeter...

Here's my ini file from the beginning to dino's Gowshawk but it continues with raz A-7 E-2 and so on.

[Main]
CommMode=0
LSOlevel=1
OnscreenMsg=1
Callsign=BusyB
SoundCard=Altoparlanti (VIA High Definiti
Top=55
Left=55
Monitor=0

[Font]
Name=Franklin Gothic Medium
;File=Framd.ttf

[Manual]
ManualBall=1
ManualBallKey=TOGGLE_WATER_RUDDER

; Custom aircraft definitions.
; All the properties are required! Aircraft section numbers must be contiguous.
[Aircraft.1]   ;Default/Sludge/Combat/Blue Angels 2012
ATC_model=F18
Type=Legacy Hornet
Name=F/A-18 A/B/C/D
Slow=9.3
Fast=6.8
AbeamClose=1.0
AbeamWide=1.5


[Aircraft.2] ;  VRS Superbug
ATC_model=F18E
Type=Rhino
Name=F/A-18E
Slow=9.3
Fast=6.9
AbeamClose=1.1
AbeamWide=1.5


[Aircraft.3]  ; Dino's T-45
ATC_model=T45
Type=Goshawk
Name=T-45C
Slow=18.1
Fast=15.8
AbeamClose=0.7
AbeamWide=1.1

Yes i use Sylvain's Tacan ILS Carrier gauge.
Could anyone help me please? What am I doing wrong?
Thanks in advance. Roberto.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on March 15, 2012, 10:01:09 am
Roberto,
Thanks for your feedback. That was a bug in my program, which prevented you from using some customized aircrafts.
Please download this 0.62 beta http://www.gamefront.com/files/21431348/vLSO_6.2.zip (http://www.gamefront.com/files/21431348/vLSO_6.2.zip) and make sure the program now works with your .ini file.

BTW, are you sure you want to use 18.1 and 15.8 for the Goshawk?...
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: robertorizzo on March 15, 2012, 11:15:10 am
Hi navypilot,
thanks for your kind and fast answer.
I'm at work now and since I'm not a navy pilot I must wait till this evening (european time) to try it. I'll read back you. Settings are taken from SandPro's Corner site, I thought they were proved to be the best. I really even do not know what they stay for (the settings, not the site).
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: robertorizzo on March 15, 2012, 09:21:29 pm
Still nothing.
Tried with Razbam A-7 , DinoT-45 and VRS F-18.
No lines on the logbook despite my carrier landings and green windows. No sounds, no screen messages. When doublecliking on the files in sound folder i hear the sound.
I may say I installed Accu Feel. Could be Accu feel the cause?
Then switched accu feel to off for the selected F-18 but nothing.
Launched as admin, antivirus off.
Modified exe to launch vLSO when launching FSX, worked the launch but still vLSO not working.
vLSO has its own folder in FSX even tried to cut and paste it elsewhere, nope. :'( :'(

Vista 64, FSX accel....
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on March 15, 2012, 11:25:10 pm
I experienced the same problem with 0.5 so rolled back to 0.4.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on March 15, 2012, 11:56:39 pm
I've found that 0.62 is not picking up my approach, also it is cool to see the carrier Quals options on the menu pity the vLSO is not working though unlike 0.4 which did pick up my approaches. win7 64 bit.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: ExNusquam on March 16, 2012, 04:25:23 am
What carrier are you flying approaches to, and what aircraft are you using? I've found that vLSO is rather picky when it comes to carriers/aircraft, so chances are it just doesn't recognize the carrier you're flying the approach to. Try flying the 'nilla hornet to the acceleration carrier.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on March 16, 2012, 09:00:03 am
Could be Accu feel the cause?

It can't be Roberto. I use accufeel as do a few other virtual aviators that I know. So, I can say with certainty that accufeel doesn't interfere with vLSO.


vLSO has its own folder in FSX even tried to cut and paste it elsewhere, nope.

I'm not a specialist on this, but I do remember a tip from Sandpro...."Don't keep the vLSO main folder on your desktop". On my own, I also recommend, "NOT" to keep it in the "Program Files or Program Files (x86)" folder either. Anything in this folder will require elevated permissions to work correctly. I'm not saying this will solve your problem, but just sayin..

Mickey
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: robertorizzo on March 16, 2012, 11:45:33 am
1) it seems i'm not alone, this gives me some courage.
2) till now I always used Javier's CVN-68/69 single #2 configuration as  simple AI as aicarrier
3) vLSO folder in F:\Microsoft Games
4) yeah accufeel is just the only thing i modified after installing vLSO, but you feel it works outside fsx.
5) Could anyone be so kind to share with me a previous version of vLSO?

I agree that something tells me the carrier isn't recognized by vLSO even if i do not know what.

Some days ago i was flying around the Persian Gulf with my E-2, i was searching for IKE i placed as AI, Sylvain's TACAN gauge on frequency 112.00, i got, with my great surprise, a green text line on the screen saying something about the ship, maybe the last weather conditions close to it. But then i landed on the carrier without any sign of life from vLSO.

Going to try with default acceleration carrier.

By the way, what and when, during my approach should I notice vLSO is working?

I may say the only time vLSO worked i landed directly straight on the carrier, then i always made my circling at 800'
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on March 16, 2012, 04:59:20 pm
Roberto,
That green text line on the screen is the CVN tower's Case approach report. This proves that vLSO has found your carrier. Then, vLSO starts watching your approach, provided you have lowered your landing gear, i.e. your aircraft is in landing configuration.

PS. No ILS/TACAN required for vLSO.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on March 17, 2012, 12:12:52 am
What carrier are you flying approaches to, and what aircraft are you using? I've found that vLSO is rather picky when it comes to carriers/aircraft, so chances are it just doesn't recognize the carrier you're flying the approach to. Try flying the 'nilla hornet to the acceleration carrier.

Javiers carriers is what I'm using.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on March 17, 2012, 12:17:42 am
Roberto,
That green text line on the screen is the CVN tower's Case approach report. This proves that vLSO has found your carrier. Then, vLSO starts watching your approach, provided you have lowered your landing gear, i.e. your aircraft is in landing configuration.

PS. No ILS/TACAN required for vLSO.

After checking out 6.2 and noticing the options in FSX(thats without vLSO detecting my approaches though- why is that since 0.5 onwards its not detecting my approaches) for Carrier Quals I reccomend you team up with Orion and make a Carrier Quals mission which combines the vLSO with a mission then you can have a reward after completion of carrier quals. You could even combine vLSO report with a reward for most 3 wires in a row etc. Superhornet qual, Hornet, T45 etc. You could even take things further with a mission eg adding ATC to the carrier etc.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on March 17, 2012, 11:35:47 am
Okay Gents,

I got my first 'OK' 3 wire (Night Time, Case III) trap today and with a 'Beauty' grade from vLSO. I feel very nice, and wanted to share it with all my virtual aviator friends. I fully realize that this post is not relevant to this thread, but I just wanted to share this moment with all of you. Admins feel free to delete this post in a day or two.

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-UkYc8xkYMWg/T2RnvcYKBGI/AAAAAAAAABM/I8YmoVm_h6I/h120/OK3+Beauty.png)
LSO's grade

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-KOvMnorTFsY/T2Rnvuj9nAI/AAAAAAAAABU/ALJBPrJE4uA/h120/OK3+Beauty+1.png)
The Glide Slope, and

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/--qTq_7zwGUU/T2RnviYVZbI/AAAAAAAAABQ/8MfXWJkDwTI/h120/OK3+Beauty2.png)
the Line Up.

Thank you all and thank you FSXNP.

Mickey
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: syn on March 17, 2012, 11:38:43 am
Congrats Mickey, nice pass!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on March 17, 2012, 01:47:46 pm
Nice Mickey! One goal of the vLSO is to have a greenie board so folks can upload their passes, should add to the fun and competition.

-CAPT
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on March 17, 2012, 02:02:15 pm
Nice Mickey! One goal of the vLSO is to have a greenie board so folks can upload their passes, should add to the fun and competition.

-CAPT

Thx Capt,

I await the day, when Serge makes that feature available.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: robertorizzo on March 17, 2012, 03:23:14 pm
A friend of mine sent me version 03b.
NOW IT WORKS.
Definitely versions .5, .6, .61 and .62 do not work on my rig.
Thanks
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on March 17, 2012, 05:28:08 pm
Oddly enough, but I didn't change anything about carrier/aircraft data acquisition code since version 0.1. Bummer...  :-[
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: robertorizzo on March 17, 2012, 08:37:29 pm
For now i'm going to enjoy my new toy, in a few days i'll try new paths, merging things in the vLSO folder hoping to use any new version. If I get results I'll tell you for your next releases. Bye.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on March 18, 2012, 12:42:54 am
Oddly enough, but I didn't change anything about carrier/aircraft data acquisition code since version 0.1. Bummer...  :-[

Hi Serge,

First, thanks for all the improvements to the vLSO, I have been a follower since the very beginning.
I noticed that 0.6b is not working when I operate from Whitbey (KNUW) with ORBX Pacific North West scenery on. It is working when that scenery if off though....
Would there be an obvious reason of conflict between the two?
Just curious, so don't spend time unless the cause is obvious. I will try with previous versions of vLSO that I have kept.
Thanks again,

Johan
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on March 18, 2012, 09:03:25 am
Johan,
Is your ORBX scenery Prepare3D compatible? I read on forums that using non-P3D addons under Prepare3D requires some manual intervention.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on March 18, 2012, 03:48:16 pm
Johan,
Is your ORBX scenery Prepare3D compatible? I read on forums that using non-P3D addons under Prepare3D requires some manual intervention.

I don't believe my ORBX PNW version is Prepare3D  compatible. The P3D compatible version was announced on 1/5/12 and my install is older than that.
Thanks for your insight though. It doesn't bother me to do AC operations when this scenery if off. Your vLSO is great.
Thanks Serge,

Johan
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: syn on March 19, 2012, 11:50:57 pm
Hi, still to more issues after beta 6

- vLSO seems to be using baro altitude as read on the airplanes altimeter and not true altitude. A wrong altimeter setting (must be significant, lets say 2mb or .07inHg) causes weird outputs in vLSO and wave-offs on, otherwise, normal approaches.

- Still getting worse grades when rolling out on a .6DME case I 15-18 sec groove (ref: F-14 NATOPS, T-45 NATOPS) than when rolling out at .8 even with manual ball call for approaches with no significant deviations.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: syn on March 20, 2012, 12:55:53 am
Follow-up on the second point of my previous post. Both of these are touch and goes on a straight-in approach. The only significant difference is the point at which I call the ball. I can reproduce this consistently and I will always get at least an OK with the far ball call and an (OK) only with the close-in ball call, unless I **** up the pass  ;D

(http://picwizz.com/upload/2174-8963.png) (http://picwizz.com/upload/2174-8963.png)

(http://picwizz.com/upload/2175-2384.png) (http://picwizz.com/upload/2175-2384.png)

EDIT: typo
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on March 20, 2012, 02:23:12 pm
Earlier there was a question or related question about 'hook/eye' HE distances. Have come across a poor quality page with some data from latest LSO NATOPS PCL:

http://www.hrana.org/documents/PaddlesMonthlyApril2011.pdf

Graphic is best I can do to make it readable.

Super Hornet HE is 17.15 feet

Now attached is a second attempt at making a good graphic from a not so good original.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on March 20, 2012, 03:00:17 pm
Syn,

I've noticed that when using 'manual ball call' the vLSO seems to grade harder or at least I am unable to get an OK3 even when it is a perfect pass (no comments from vLSO) to a three wire. I can only get an OK3 when in 'auto ball call', not sure what is going on here and Serge is aware of the situation. I too try to roll into the groove at .6-.7 DME on the TACAN, but my groove times always seem long >20seconds, not sure what is going on here either.

-CAPT
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Herbie on March 20, 2012, 10:10:40 pm
I had a Wave-off and got a 3 Wire. I think, we may ask to much. It's only FSX each set-up on a different Computer. If you like to be real graded, we all should use the same computer. Herb
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on March 22, 2012, 01:54:29 am
Johan,
Is your ORBX scenery Prepare3D compatible? I read on forums that using non-P3D addons under Prepare3D requires some manual intervention.

Serge,

I downloaded and installed the updated version of FSUIPC4 and it fixed the bug. I can now to carrier ops in PNW (ORBX) with vLSO on. Just as an FYI for others.
Thanks for all your work,

Johan

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on March 22, 2012, 04:20:48 pm
Johan,
Thanks for the info! By the way, does PNW need/use FSUIPC?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on March 22, 2012, 04:42:08 pm
Johan,
Thanks for the info! By the way, does PNW need/use FSUIPC?

Serge,

I believe it does, at least to fix all the CDT issues that were known with PNW, occurring around KSEA. After installing the new version (unregistered, only the freeware), I did several flights last night with no CDT issues. Then I set Javier's AC north of Whidbey (KNUW) and ran vLSO, and everything worked well.

Johan
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Tregarth on March 25, 2012, 07:19:14 pm
Dear FSXNP,

A while ago you said you were working on a version of vLSO for El Centro and Coupeville; can you please tell me if you have finished them or what has happened to them?

Thank you,

Tregarth
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on March 26, 2012, 05:31:05 am
I got LSOv0.62 to work but the sound file was missing so I'm trying to use the 0.4 sound files for it.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on March 26, 2012, 06:51:12 am
Tregarth,

A while ago you said you were working on a version of vLSO for El Centro and Coupeville; can you please tell me if you have finished them or what has happened to them?

There will be support for FCLP, be sure, and I hope it won't be limited to the above mentioned locations.  :)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on March 27, 2012, 01:30:18 am
v0.6b works good on my PC nice work FSXNAVYPILOT.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: tgiesige on March 27, 2012, 03:37:44 am
Well, here is what I am getting with VLSO flying the VRS Superbug FA-18E. I recieve transmissions from LSO when approaching the carrier, and upon calling the ball, the LSO is always calling me high with the wave-off. Even the debrief shows me high. But if I follow the lSO commands and stay lower, it puts me below the deck just so he don't call me high at which there is no way I can land. I'll run into the back of the carrier way below deck every time. Is there a parameter I am needing tweaked, or is it just me? :'(
Maybe someone can enlighten me on this.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on March 27, 2012, 04:58:04 am
Oh my..  :o
A few questions, please?
- What carrier are you attempting to land on?
- Any changes to the vLSO.ini file, like adding a custom SH definition to the Aircraft.* section?
- May I have a copy of your Logbook.dat file (via email)?

Thanks
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: tgiesige on March 27, 2012, 10:21:50 pm
Using the carrier, CVN 68-69 nimitz by Jav, have not altered anything in VLSO. Yes I could send ya my log book if you point me as to how!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: tgiesige on March 28, 2012, 12:45:54 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtL9oSxVAVU&list=UUxlmGXU_dRI_81oJuyVC97g&index=1&feature=plcp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtL9oSxVAVU&list=UUxlmGXU_dRI_81oJuyVC97g&index=1&feature=plcp)
Two short approach's showing VLSO callouts
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: tgiesige on March 28, 2012, 02:11:51 am
Think I figured out the problem. Had to toggle key command mode in the bug so I could reset altitude. I was showing deck height of 200ft. Now I display correct deck height at 60ft.
LMAO, now getting called too Low, Ha go figure! Been telling me to high all this time because of my mistake. Now like re-learn all over ! Great program, and some what tough !
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on March 28, 2012, 04:26:19 am
Cool!  ;D
BTW, both your approaches were in fact too low as the waveoff lights were flashing, which means you're well below the glidepath.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Victory103 on March 28, 2012, 12:05:35 pm
"Right for lineup". If it was easy everyone would be doing it.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Jonathan livingston on March 28, 2012, 09:30:46 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtL9oSxVAVU&list=UUxlmGXU_dRI_81oJuyVC97g&index=1&feature=plcp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtL9oSxVAVU&list=UUxlmGXU_dRI_81oJuyVC97g&index=1&feature=plcp)
Two short approach's showing VLSO callouts

It seems to me that the waveoff is caused by the lineup (too left). I suggest to look at your debrief and use ILS.
Hope that helps.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on March 29, 2012, 04:32:32 am
No, the waveoff lights on FSX carriers are triggered only if you're beyond the limits of the 4.0 glidepath (too high or too low). No lineup deviations whatsoever. It's a feature of FSX FLOLS, not a bug  ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on March 31, 2012, 07:50:57 am
Serge...

I would recommend making "groove time" start approx. 3500' regardless of ball call range, IF the ball call has been made beforehand. I would also re-designate your LSO debrief page to have a BR (Ball Request; case I/II/III) as the starting (rightmost) designation at 5000' vice 5200'. This will coincide with the 0.8 TCN that the IFLOLS flashes for Case I. Then have the pilot "ball call" (auto) at 4400', as this gives the pilot time to respond. Then the LSO responds at 3900', finishing at 3500', and thats when the pass starts (X) when grading is based upon.

** Notice on my pic: I flew a really solid pass and only got a fair. If I fly the same pass and the ball call is made closer to the BC area, I get an OK.

This is the real world video I'm basing this on... and I've flown the numbers and they seem to work well for ball call and groove time.
(the LSO finishes w/"roger ball, hornet, 38 knots port" at 3:27 and the Hornet hits the deck at 3:45 for an 18 sec approach... which conforms to most videos I've seen.)


Whether we are missing some real world piece of the puzzle to make FSX match the real world "groove time", I think this is a good FSX fix 'til we have an exact answer.

Also, what distance do you have setup for proper abeam? I keep getting "too close abeam" when I'm at 1.3 TCN on JRs "Realistic HUD". Now, I remember you said we shouldnt use that, but if we don't, what do we use in FSX? Only the VRS SuperBug can use the "HSI wingtip on the boat at 10 NM expansion" method... we (Sludge fliers, Combat Hornet, JR/Printz HUD users) have to rely on the HUD TCN, so what TCN distance will get us at the right distance abeam?

Later
Sludge

 
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on March 31, 2012, 06:40:48 pm
Serge...

Since I got a good night's rest, I'm revising my request. Instead of always starting the groove at 3500', I'd say start the "groove time" counter once the pilot has rolls wings level within 5-10 deg of final bearing IF they have already called the ball (manual or auto). I'll fly some passes and find out what HUD TCNs correllate (for FSX fliers) and their approximate display on your debrief screen in feet (so you can build a window). Tonight, I'll fly passes, saving an FSX screen shot and the accompanied vLSO debrief window for each pass. Then we can work out a "groove time" 15-19 secs that will ALLOW for the user to get an OK pass if they roll wings level onto final bearing in that 15-19 sec window.

Once that "groove window" gets figured out, I'm guessing you'll need to revise your debrief window to read some like this:
600' - AR; 1500' - IC; 2300' - IM; 3100'-3600' - X; 4000' - BC; 5000' - BR
And instead of a solid lines for the start, use dashed lines. This would make the start variable, a window, as it should be for each pass.

Here's another video that adds to what I'm saying:
(you see just after 5000', Paddles gives a BR (ball request)... pilot answers at 4000' and LSO final reply finishes at 34-3300'.. and thats and 0:10 secs... he hits the ramp at 0:27)

(granted this video and the video I used before are CASE III approaches, but they show when the LSO goes out for a BR, when the pilot responds, LSO final reply and the start of grading. So transposing, Case I, ZIP LIP, the vLSO BC should be around 4400' and the grading should start ["roger, ball"] when the pilot rolls wings level and approximately on final bearing.)

I'd also add, if you don't already have it (I think you do)... if the pilot rolls wings level onto final bearing and doesnt have a ball (too high/too low to be visible), they get a "waveoff, pattern". As well, once all this "groove time" stuff is worked out, you can add "waveoff, pattern" (Case I) if the pilot doesnt roll wings level inside that "groove window".

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: MikeB54 on April 01, 2012, 05:18:14 pm
There is one thing I would like to see incorporated in the program.  This is something that Chris mentioned to me when he flew with vLSO.  Once you pass the IC point you shouldn't get a waveoff for a deviation that falls into the "a little" category, i.e. "(LO) A Little Low", or "(HI) A Little High".  Since the cone has shrunk considerably by the time you get to the IC point, corrections for (LO) or (HI) are easily and safely done with small power adjustments.  The attached image is a perfect example.

Mike
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: tgiesige on April 04, 2012, 12:04:20 am
Well, here is some more short clips flying VRS Super Hornet using the latest VLSO link "FSXNavyPilot". Not working well with the Bug, Now the exact opposite, getting called high when in fact right on the glide slope and in the groove as per debrief window. Constant "Don't Settle" from LSO ! Why? Is there some sort of parameters that needs to be tweaked by me in order to get the call right? watch the altimeter in the HUD on the approaches as you can see I am on the glide slope but getting called high.
I would really like to get this to work with the VRS Superbug. I am also using auto throttle control on approaches. At any rate not sure how to tweak or what to do to the configuration settings file.  ??? Thanks for your time, I am such a tard at times LOL.
VC97g&index=1&feature=plcp
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on April 04, 2012, 04:11:59 am
TGiesige...

What level of vLSO are you using?

I'd recommend NOT using ATC (auto throttle control) on the 'Bug. Its a known issue (doesn't hold 8.1 AoA) that they may or may NOT fix? So get used to using manual throttle on approach and keep the "E bracket" (HUD AoA) centered on the velocity vector by keeping the nose close to the 5 deg nose up on the Pitch Ladder. There's also an physical AoA indexer for that on the left bracket. I'd also advise working on lineup during your approach, as you start right of F/B (Final Bearing; ICLS needle left), let it "drift" over and then get left of F/B (ICLS needle right), then settle for left touchdown while aiming right. This doesnt help the approach at all and is evident when you land and almost tip over at trap.

Personally, I'd turn of ICLS when its not night/Case III. Its not like civilian cat-III ILS needles that can take you down to the runway. If you fly the needles, you'll always chase them and it wont get you on deck at the right wire. Once you get to the 3/4 mile, fly the ball ONLY.

Also, you are wayyyyy over weight. Look at the listings for "max trap weight" and I'm sure 14k will not even be close. On your FMD (Fuel Mgmt Display), its reading 14k, and thats why you make a pass at 155 kts. Thats far too fast. Not sure about the Super Bug but a CLEAN Legacy Hornet is 8.5k total fuel for MAX trap weight, w/145 kts approach speed.

The "dont settle" call means dont pull off anymore power cause you are going below glideslope. If you look carefully, you can see that you are starting to settle AR because thats what ATC on the Bug will do.

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: ExNusquam on April 04, 2012, 04:23:30 am
It works perfectly with my VRS. As for your videos:
1st Pass: You were low. That wasn't "On Glideslope". You were a solid ball or two below the "OK" region, and not correcting.
2nd Pass: You got a "Don't Settle" at the ramp because your sink rate was over 1000 fpm. The "Don't Settle" call is used if the AC is on GS, but the current sink rate will take the AC below it. vLSO shouldn't have given you a waveoff over the ramp, but, in real life, a sink rate of 1000 fpm anywhere on the pass would be a recipe for a waveoff or no grade, at best. It's highly unstable.

Also, as Sludge said, you are over max trap weight. Max trap weight for the SH is 44,000 lbs (You can find it on the CHK page), which should give you an onspeed KCAS of 137 kts.

Quote
The "dont settle" call means dont pull off anymore power cause you are going below glideslope. If you look carefully, you can see that you are starting to settle AR because thats what ATC on the Bug will do.
As per the LSO NATOPS, a "Don't Settle" is a call for more power, as the current AC sink rate is going to take it below GS. "You're a little low" would be the next call if corrective action is not taken. Also, I'll have to fly an Auto approach, but I've never noticed anything odd about the VRS's ATC. You get crappy FSX ground effect instead of the burble, which is why it pulls power, but I've flown OK3 passes with ATC on.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: micro on April 04, 2012, 05:16:53 am
Joeairplane and Sludge pretty much nailed it on the head from what I saw in those vids. Right for line-up and fly a "cresting" ball, not the needles.

P.S.: Joe, I like the sig! BKR!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on April 05, 2012, 07:02:41 am
Had my first Bolter today great work this mod is awesome.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on April 05, 2012, 10:23:09 am
... I'm guessing you'll need to revise your debrief window to read some like this:
600' - AR; 1500' - IC; 2300' - IM; 3100'-3600' - X; 4000' - BC; 5000' - BR
And instead of a solid lines for the start, use dashed lines. This would make the start variable, a window, as it should be for each pass.

Sludge,
Fair enough. However, my suggestion slightly differs:  ;)
600' - AR; (1/4 nm) 1500' - IC; (1/2 nm) 3000' - IM; 4000 - X, BC; (3/4 nm) 4500' - BR
My guess is that the Start is where the pilot starts calling the ball, right? Given the approach speed of 145 kts, we'll have some 16 sec in the groove, and at 130 kts groove time will be exactly 18 sec...  :)
And it's ok to add some randomization, or a window. But currently no dashed lines, sorry  ;D

...Once you pass the IC point you shouldn't get a waveoff for a deviation that falls into the "a little" category, i.e. "(LO) A Little Low", or "(HI) A Little High".  Since the cone has shrunk considerably by the time you get to the IC point, corrections for (LO) or (HI) are easily and safely done with small power adjustments...

Mike,
You can adjust the waveoff limits in the [Locus.GS] section of the vLSO.ini file:

[Locus.GS]
; The glideslope locus.
; This is a boundary which represents the locus of points in the vertical plane from which
; the aircraft will reach an on-glideslope condition at the ramp.
; Distances are measured in feet from the touchdown point.
;---    Dist  Up     Down
Pos.0 = 5200, 1.30, -1.60
Pos.1 = 2500, 0.75, -0.77
Pos.2 = 2200, 0.68, -0.72
Pos.3 = 2000, 0.66, -0.71
Pos.4 = 1600, 0.57, -0.60
Pos.5 =  600, 0.45, -0.55

Last two numbers are the glideslope deviations, up and down respectively. Generally, 'a little' area starts from 0.3 degree up to some 0.8 degree...
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on April 05, 2012, 05:09:19 pm
Serge...

Cool, we will have to see what happens with a 27 kt WoD and starting the pass around 4000'. Hopefully, this will work to keep groove times closer to real world. One thing I always preach and may have overlooked here is that we are using a 4.0 glideslope. This might increase groove times, since it makes you higher... common sense and geometry would suggest that it takes longer to get to a certain point. Food for thought.

There it is, your [Locus.GS] parameters, that I didnt see in this last iteration of the vLSO .INI file. Can you send out the default [Locus.LU] as well? Thanks in advance and always appreciate the explanations and feedback.

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on April 05, 2012, 05:15:46 pm
There it is, your [Locus.GS] parameters, that I didnt see in this last iteration of the vLSO .INI file. Can you send out the default [Locus.LU] as well? Thanks in advance and always appreciate the explanations and feedback.

Sludge,

If you are going to tweak those locus parameters further, will you please share them will all of us.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on April 05, 2012, 05:54:08 pm
... Can you send out the default [Locus.LU] as well?

[Locus.LU]
; The lineup locus.
; This is a boundary which represents the locus of points in the horizontal plane from which
; the aircraft will reach a lined-up condition at the ramp.
; Distances are measured in feet from the touchdown point.
;---    Dist  Right  Left
Pos.0 = 3100, 3.50, -3.50
Pos.1 = 1500, 2.50, -2.50
Pos.2 =  600, 1.50, -1.50

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on April 05, 2012, 05:59:28 pm
Serge...

Much thanks. Just got into work for the day, so I'll incorporate those when I get back and get time.

Mickey...

No problem, when I do some testing, I'll give you the numbers I used and how they worked.

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Jonathan livingston on April 07, 2012, 06:51:23 pm
I use vLSO and it works very well with my F18 (VRS).
I also practice aerial refuelling with this aircraft, FS recorder and KC135 (fixed drogue). I wonder if a kind of program like vLSO doesn't exist for aerial refuelling.
That would be really cool. I think the team who developped vLSO should be able to realise an addon for aerial refuelling : lead the pilote till the connexion with voices, a log, a debrief, some statistics, ...

Anyways. Thanks for vLSO.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on April 07, 2012, 07:31:03 pm
 (http://[/url)

I also practice aerial refuelling with this aircraft, FS recorder and KC135 (fixed drogue). I wonder if a kind of program like vLSO doesn't exist for aerial refuelling.


Livingstone,

I had seen your post on VRS forums. Based on your suggestion out there, I started a separate thread with just this request (conveyed on your behalf).

You can find the thread at ]http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=6374.0#new] (http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=6374.0#new)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on April 07, 2012, 08:49:43 pm
Fellas...

Quote
I think the team who developped vLSO should be able to realise an addon for aerial refuelling.

I can't speak for Serge, but please... one thing at a time. There is NO TEAM, its Serge doing this BY HIMSELF and the rest of us give him feedback and inputs. Not saying your idea doesn't have merit but keep in mind that this is still in BETA form and its ONE GUY doing the developing.

I'd advise keeping your idea on the backburner 'til the vLSO is it's FULL RELEASE form, then bring it up again when Serge can decide if he wants to do it.

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on April 08, 2012, 08:05:47 am
VRS Tacpac is going to have a tanker call feature which will allow you to place one anywhere aside that you just have to use FS Recorder or an AI Flight plan.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Jonathan livingston on April 08, 2012, 09:24:41 am
VRS Tacpac is going to have a tanker call feature which will allow you to place one anywhere aside that you just have to use FS Recorder or an AI Flight plan.

That must be almost what i do currently with the bug and it works fine. Thanks for the info and good news. That means that we'll found the feature with Tacpac.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Razgriz on April 08, 2012, 09:34:39 am
VRS Tacpac is going to have a tanker call feature which will allow you to place one anywhere aside that you just have to use FS Recorder or an AI Flight plan.

TacPack isn't out yet?

...lol?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on April 09, 2012, 10:01:28 am
Serge...

OK, finally got done with modding the Sludge for the moment and got some testing done. I'm having the same problem others are in that, I get the "POWER...POWER" calls even though I'm a tad overpowered and I got an OK3 UNDERLINED.

I even tried "opening" up the LOCUS.GS numbers to allow for more leeway.

Here's the numbers I used:
;---    Dist  Up     Down
Pos.0 = 4000, 1.30, -1.60
Pos.1 = 2500, 0.75, -1.27
Pos.2 = 2000, 0.68, -1.15
Pos.3 = 1500, 0.66, -1.60
Pos.4 =  600, 0.57, -2.85
Pos.5 =  100, 0.45, -3.40

I took the FSX screen shot the moment I heard "power, power", so I'm guessing that call comes based on RateOfDescent and not the GS?

FYI, I was using the AUTO BALL CALL setting, and CAG level w/ZIP LIP disabled.

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Razgriz on April 09, 2012, 12:14:22 pm
holy approach
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on April 09, 2012, 01:20:10 pm
Sludge,
Thanks for your input! Yes, the program issues that 'power, power' call when you're a little low (and lower) at the ramp. I think this call is useless at that range, because there's no time remained to correct. So, I'll fix that in the next beta release, i.e. no power calls when 'a little low' and 'low' at the ramp. However I'm not sure should I remove it for the 'very low' condition too?

As for the locus, it just describes a boundary of a safe approach - fly beyond it and you'll get a waveoff. It has no connection with voice calls other than waveoff.

Thanks again!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on April 09, 2012, 03:33:56 pm
FSXNP,

On the VRS Superbug, I repeatedly get a waveoff at about 0.8nm, even though I have the cross centered. I have tried both Case I and III approaches.
If I fly slightly below GS, then there is no problem.

With the ILS cross centered, on VRS SH, I get waveoff's even much closer to the boat (0.3 nm, 0.5 nm etc). I have even gotten a OK3 by flying about half a ball width below GS. How do I correct this for the SH.

On the T45 however, there is absolutely no problems at all. Haven't flown the Sludge Hornet with vLSO much, since I know the original assembler (lol) would be testing it extensively, in any case.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on April 09, 2012, 06:00:28 pm
Serge...

Quote
However I'm not sure should I remove it for the 'very low' condition too?

Yeah, I think this is a good idea, as in some of the CRASH Y/T's we've seen, you can hear the "POWER, POWER!!" calls when he's about 1-wire/ramp-strike RoD approach.

Quote
As for the locus, it just describes a boundary of a safe approach - fly beyond it and you'll get a waveoff.

Thanks for the info., so now I can go back to the regular numbers realizing that the LOCUS.GS numbers have nothing to do with those "POWER, POWER" calls. Which reminds me, those numbers should have the vLSO waveoffs COINCIDE with the boat waveoff lights (upper and lower limits), right? If so, they are probly good as is, but I'll re-confirm when I get home.

No problem, always trying to help make your product the best it can be...

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on April 09, 2012, 06:24:01 pm

...... always trying to help make your product the best it can be...


...Like....
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on April 09, 2012, 06:34:42 pm
Serge...

Quote
Sludge,
Fair enough. However, my suggestion slightly differs:  ;)
600' - AR; (1/4 nm) 1500' - IC; (1/2 nm) 3000' - IM; 4000 - X, BC; (3/4 nm) 4500' - BR
My guess is that the Start is where the pilot starts calling the ball, right? Given the approach speed of 145 kts, we'll have some 16 sec in the groove, and at 130 kts groove time will be exactly 18 sec...  :)
And it's ok to add some randomization, or a window. But currently no dashed lines, sorry  ;D

I would suggest something closer to 3600 for Start (X) because using a nominal LSO NATOPS Case I WoD, using a natural wind of 12 kts + 15 kts boat speed (27 kts WoD), I calculate about 3350' at 137 INDICATED (110 TRUE). If we get up to 145 kts INDICATED, we get 118 TRUE (145-27=118) for 3600' (3584' rounded up). This is all assuming an 18 sec groove time. The numbers obviously get less/closer with a 15 sec groove time; such as a Start (X) at 3000' (2987' rounded up) using 145 INDICATED (118 TRUE).

Quote
My guess is that the Start is where the pilot starts calling the ball, right?

Let's get JJ's take on this and if the pass starts at pilot Ball Call or wings level on Final Bearing AFTER Ball Request.

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on April 09, 2012, 06:48:11 pm
....those numbers should have the vLSO waveoffs COINCIDE with the boat waveoff lights (upper and lower limits), right? ...

No. Unfortunately they don't. :(
As you can see, the locus limits are not straight lines:
(http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4138.0;attach=10550)

I'd say these lines are a function of the distance and the glideslope deviation...
FSX waveoff lights depend on the angle of view only. Thus you'll see flashing red lights even if you're in a safe position just below LO  (or above H) somewhere at 2700-3000'...

------
As for the distances.... BC = 4000..3900', X = 3700..3600'. Are we agreed?  ;)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on April 09, 2012, 06:58:30 pm
Serge...

Yeah, I see what you mean in the illustration, but shouldn't the vLSO waveoff calls be in concert with the boat waveoff lights and separate from the grading LOCUS.GS?

I'm asking this as a question not a statement because I don't know if the vLSO is already programmed that way or if its something you've already discussed here and I missed.

As for the numbers, definitely agreed!!

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on April 09, 2012, 07:09:26 pm
Serge...

I think this is the piece we were missing, the RELATIVE vs INDICATED airspeed approach plus 4.0/3.5 glideslope differential in FSX vs real world numbers. Here's my thinking... the RELATIVE vs INDICATED airspeed gets us right into the ball park and IF we had a 3.5 ball, we could be on the correct RADAR ALTs (450 at THE 90, approx 1.2NM TCN), along with getting a slightly faster (+2 kts) approach speed due to a tad less uptrim to control on-speed. This goes hand-in-hand with how much we see real world Hornet videos doing in the 140s indicated while the default/Sludge are always in the mid-high 130s, even at MAX TRAP. BTW, this is how it was in the sim, the Hornet easily stayed in the low-mid 140s all thru the pattern and on final bearing approach.

I'll try to confirm all this tonight and see how close we get.

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on April 09, 2012, 07:34:25 pm
Totally agree! The hardcoded 4.0 GS makes a huge difference and this is where this simulator starts disconnecting from real world. MS developers didn't even think that such serious guys would fly their sim  ;D

The locus... If the vLSO waveoff calls were in sync with the FSX waveoff lights then the locus settings would make no sense at all  ;D The locus allows a pilot to reach an on-glideslope position even from a relatevily poor start. That's how they do in real life, I guess. In case of FSX lights the pilot would be waved off right there, at the start... That's why I added this feature to the program.  ;)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on April 09, 2012, 08:19:38 pm
Serge...

Quote
Totally agree! The hardcoded 4.0 GS makes a huge difference and this is where this simulator starts disconnecting from real world. MS developers didn't even think that such serious guys would fly their sim

Yeah, I usually fly my patterns with a VERY SERIOUS FACE!! No funny business at all. Haha.

Quote
The locus... If the vLSO waveoff calls were in sync with the FSX waveoff lights then the locus settings would make no sense at all.

Quote
FSX waveoff lights depend on the angle of view only. Thus you'll see flashing red lights even if you're in a safe position just below LO  (or above H) somewhere at 2700-3000'...

I see what you're saying, and agree for the most part (especially the precision limited LOCUS and closer), with the exception that at the 2000' point and farther out, the LOCUS points should mirror the H and the L points out to start at 3600'? And I know we are dealing with FSX lims here in the viewable area of the glideslope but shouldn't a pass that starts out beyond those lims (even FSX) be a "waveoff pattern"?

Sorry, actually did some re-reading and Forum member K6952 already did the work. Learn to read, Sludge.
http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=4915.msg45835#msg45835 (http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=4915.msg45835#msg45835)

I'll just use his numbers for the 2000'/farther, and your's for 2000'/closer. Probly use the numbers for two balls (4 on your IFLOLS gauge) or lower AR, so we get the waveoff if going two low and into ramp strike territory.

Finally, I did some calculations with the Abeam calls. Now NATOPS pattern illustration says 1-1/4 to 1-1/2, which calculates to 7595'/8195' (1.25NM/1.35NM; distance/distance plus 600' height). Is this why I'm getting the TOO CLOSE ABEAM calls when I'm 1.3 on the HUD TCN? I'm at 1.3 TCN and you've set it up to be greater than 1.35 TCN? After being in the sim and using 1.3 HUD TCN (as Chris said), I would ask if we could split the difference and use 7895' (1.3 HUD TCN as the closest before getting an abeam call)? What's your view on this?

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on April 09, 2012, 09:33:51 pm
VRS Tacpac is going to have a tanker call feature which will allow you to place one anywhere aside that you just have to use FS Recorder or an AI Flight plan.

TacPack isn't out yet?

...lol?

(VRS Tacpac is going to have a tanker call feature)  As mentioned above.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: MikeB54 on April 10, 2012, 02:17:23 am
I took a somewhat less scientific approach to getting the Locus.GS numbers to what I felt was reasonable behavior.  Here is what I am using:

[Locus.GS]
; The glideslope locus.
; This is a boundary which represents the locus of points in the vertical plane from which
; the aircraft will reach an on-glideslope condition at the ramp.
; Distances are measured in feet from the touchdown point.
;---    Dist  Up     Down
Pos.0 = 5200, 1.07, -1.30
Pos.1 = 2500, 1.05, -1.25
Pos.2 = 2200, 1.03, -1.00
Pos.3 = 2000, 0.75, -0.80
Pos.4 = 1600, 0.59, -0.61
Pos.5 = 600, 0.50, -0.52


I started with numbers I found at FSXCarrierOps.com.  I was still getting waveoffs when it took minimal corrective action to still get a 3 wire.  About the only thing I did was open up the Pos.5 (AR) range.

Mike
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on April 10, 2012, 05:03:47 am
Sludge,
Obviously there's something wrong with my abeam position calculations. I'll check it again and fix the bug.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on April 10, 2012, 08:43:00 pm
Fellas..

Had a go with the new numbers last night and it was pretty good. My numbers are alongside Mike's numbers, but give just a touch more waveoff leeway AR (600') to IW (in-the-wires; approx 200').

When I get home, I'll make sure to post the numbers.

A good way to test them will be to fly a solid on-speed and on-G/S approach. About 0.3NM, while holding the the "W" (nose) at 5 deg up, pull off the power til the velocity vector is between the 1-wire and the rundown. As soon as you start sinking, you should get the waveoff. Also, during the debrief screen, you should see the "waveoff balloon" right about the FIRST RED LINE. This seems to me a good place for that to happen, as you can still kick in burner and salvage a waveoff without an IFE (inflight engagement) of the arresting cable.

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on April 10, 2012, 08:53:15 pm
Serge...

Since my modding will be in concert with carrier ops at this point, I'll try to get you more data on the "Range Error" problem.

I read some of SANDPRO's posts and have encountered some of those problems myself, recently. It might be the effective range of the program as I do alot of "SLEW" approaches for my testing. And yes, I've probly flown on the order of hundreds of traps doing this as anyone who has Skype'd with me can attest... "its sooo pretty". I talk alot of trash during my OK3 passes.

I noticed that when I SLEW'd past 2.0 NM, after my initial straight in pass, I would get the error message, so I'll do some more testing to confirm this. This is a new occurrence for me, as I usually SLEW to 1.5NM and 1500', and start my "test pass" but this time, when I went past 2.0 and noticed I got the "range error". I will also get you the relevant data (aircraft config., distance from carrier, etc.) on any other instances I get the error.

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on April 11, 2012, 07:30:31 am
Fellas...

Here's my numbers for the LOCUS.GS, test them out and see how they work for ya. Just copy/paste into your vLSO.INI file and let it rip.

[Locus.GS]
; The glideslope locus.
; This is a boundary which represents the locus of points in the vertical plane from which
; the aircraft will reach an on-glideslope condition at the ramp.
; Distances are measured in feet from the touchdown point.
;---    Dist  Up     Down
Pos.0 = 5200, 1.30, -1.60
Pos.1 = 2200, 1.30, -1.60
Pos.2 = 2000, 0.80, -1.20
Pos.3 = 1400, 0.45, -0.85
Pos.4 = 600, 0.45, -0.75
Pos.5 = 250, 0.45, -0.85

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on April 13, 2012, 05:05:57 am
Just a question to FSXNAVYPILOT, those Qualifications in the menue has anyone completed them and if so what is the result? Unfortunately my Cougars pots are wearing out and it'll be a couple of months before I can get some Hall sensors. So is there a reward for your logbook if you succeed in 6 or 10 traps concecutively? Also is it based on just trapping on the boat like the FSX carrier practice mission or is it based on scoring from vLSO?(so it still counts even if its a wave off)

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on April 13, 2012, 05:21:46 am
SUBS17,
The idea was to simulate the real qualification procedure - you fly one or two warmup T/G passes, then make those 6-10 (or whatever) consecutive SUCCESSFUL traps and get LSO's comment 'sure you're qualed'.  :) No additional scoring or logbook marks (are there any in real life?) BTW, what they do in reality in case of a waveoff during quals?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on April 13, 2012, 06:11:27 am
I've had a couple of attempts at it but my Hotas is spiking on the roll axis so they are hairy attempts at best. Some ideas though you could have a reward to go into the pilots logbook to show he has completed the qualification. Also you could do a separate reward for doing the same during CASE III or even worse conditions one. Its a great idea adding that stuff I thought that it would have to be within a mission but forgot that FSX gives rewards for total landings etc. One thing might help is a counter or a comment by the IP 2 down 4 to go etc. You could even add IP comments(T45) if you wanted to add immersion as it is the vLSO is brilliant. 
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on April 13, 2012, 07:13:11 am
Just be warned - one of the previous betas had FSX CarQual menu items, but no actual implementation. So upgrade your Cougar to Halls with no hurry, there is still time...  ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on April 13, 2012, 08:16:41 am
fsxnp asked: "...BTW, what they do in reality in case of a waveoff during quals?"

As I recall there was a discussion about this on an earlier thread/page? Anyway a Hornet Pilot USN would have qualified firstly with the T-45C then it is a matter of qualifying on type. I believe these requirements were rewritten or modified for latest version of the LSO Reference Manual or whatever (NATOPS?). Still have not found the 2010 edition of the Refence Manual online yet....

Anyway it all depends what the 'waveoff' is for. If pilot makes own waveoff then it won't count. If for a badder pilot reason :-) [LSO calls waveoff for bad approach] then it may be a problem if pilot in Hornet already attempting to qualify. I have read stories of pilots being sent back to the beach, to either 'face the music' or do more FCLP. Probably in real life most waveoffs are for a foul deck or for practice (to ensure pilot obeys the 'waveoff'). There are waveoffs to get seriously messed up pilots OFF the ramp. Now that would be an interesting LSO debrief to attend. Or not. :-)

ADDITION: One needs to keep in mind that a Hornet pilot will have made many FCLPs ashore to the satisfaction of the LSO that will supervise his / her CarQual. If that pilot is not good enough then they will not go to the carrier. Wasting carrier time by unnecessary pilot waveoffs would be discouraged. I'd expect that all pilots do rather well with some exceptions (read the story about the Night Qual pilot using the needles to touchdown/rampstrike).

Weather conditions can make the carqual more difficult but allowances would be made for that to some extent. Otherwise some really good pilots go out there ready to qualify and not mess about.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on April 13, 2012, 05:19:31 pm
One needs to keep in mind that a Hornet pilot will have made many FCLPs ashore to the satisfaction of the LSO that will supervise his / her CarQual. If that pilot is not good enough then they will not go to the carrier. Wasting carrier time by unnecessary pilot waveoffs would be discouraged.

Exactly! But in this sim no one could guarantee that a pilot has completed at least a half-dozen FCLP periods prior to carquals. No one could prevent a casual flyer from trying to qualify. We'd better leave it up to that poor chap  ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on April 14, 2012, 07:52:55 am
You could add that, the BFT Campaign is similar to the FSX lessons missions where you have to pass specific flights to get a particular qualification. eg Private Pilots, Student Pilots in FSX require a series of trainning missions followed by a check ride after which the pilot recieves a certificate that they can actually print on the printer. ;) (which the die hards can hang on the wall)So you could expand to a more realistic scenario where there is similar trainning missions requiring FCLP after completion the pilot gets a certificate and you could even go as far as passing FSXNAVYPILOTS check ride. ;D Then move onto Carrier Quals. FSX BTW does allow for pilot coaching for things such as circuits so you could even make use of that although unlike the FSX trainning missions the lane boundarys somehow have to move with the carrier like the carriers ILS. ;) (you could even go as far as a signature as a reward etc)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on April 16, 2012, 06:53:17 am
SUBS....

Quote
You could add that, the BFT Campaign is similar to the FSX lessons missions where you have to pass specific flights to get a particular qualification

WTF?! What is BFT? Does it pertain to FSX? Can we even do that?

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: micro on April 16, 2012, 06:55:30 am
Quote
WTF?! What is BFT? Does it pertain to FSX? Can we even do that?

Later
Sludge

Double ditto
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on April 16, 2012, 12:06:48 pm
SUBS....

Quote
You could add that, the BFT Campaign is similar to the FSX lessons missions where you have to pass specific flights to get a particular qualification

WTF?! What is BFT? Does it pertain to FSX? Can we even do that?

Later
Sludge

The answer to that is yes you can do this in FSX as the Learning Centre/Lessons use a similar type of method of trainning. BFT is the series of missions for the Flight Qualifications Campaign which allows players to be trainned to fly. Its quite good at the moment its just for DCS A-10C but FSX already has some missions which cover some of this stuff. Carrier Quals is a trainning type enviroment and fits right in for this type of instruction.



(check out the last minute in this video)

Heres a After Action Report on the campaign.

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3544403/DCS_A_10C_Maple_Flag_Basic_Fli.html#Post3544403

So for FSX it might be a mission which involves starting up, taxi, take off, fly to the carrier, enter the circuit, carryout 6 or 10 traps then fly back to base or park up and shut down on the carrier. FSXs carrier tutorial featured a moving carrier and the voice from the instructor was triggered as the player flew over ships that were in specific areas in the circuit such as down wind/base leg. Eventually when such missions are used on the next generation of sims once qualified it'll probably be logged and rewarded and regarded as a sim Qual. 8)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on April 16, 2012, 12:11:03 pm
Quote
A-10C Basic Flight Training Qualification


 A 12 Mission Campaign that covers Basic Flight Training Qualification in the A-10C Warthog.

The A-10C Pilot Qualification Course has the following phases:
 
Phase 1: Academic Classes and Pre-Flight Training
 Phase 2: Basic Flight Training Qualification Campaign
 Phase 3: Advanced Aircraft Training Fighter / Bomber Track Qualification Campaign
 
Hopefully you have completed Phase 1 and are familiar with the A-10C aircraft systems and instruments. If not, please read the DCS A-10C Flight Manual before continuing.
 
The goal of the A-10C Pilot Qualification Course is to prepare Cadets for combat operations flying the A-10C in a number of mission roles. Commanders require pilots with the skills and training necessary to be successful on the battlefield.
 
Each Phase of training will contain individual Performance Objectives (POs) that must be met to pass the course. Performance Checks (PCs) will be used to determine if you have met the requirements of the PO.

Following each flight (known as a Check Ride) your Flight Examiner (FE) will rate you using one of the following proficiency levels as directed in A/OA-10 – Aircrew Evaluation Criteria: AFI11-2A-OA-10V2:
 Qualified (Q): Performance is correct. Quickly recognizes and corrects errors.
 
Qualified Minus (Q-): Performance is safe, but indicates limited proficiency. Makes errors of omission or commission.
 
Unqualified (U): Performance is unsafe or indicates lack of knowledge or ability.
 
In addition for any flight missions:
 
Qualified (Q): Altitude +/- 200 feet, Airspeed +/- 5%, Course +/- 5 degrees / 3 NM (whichever is greater)
 
Qualified Minus (Q-): Altitude +/- 300 feet, Airspeed +/- 10%, Course +/- 10 degrees / 5 NM (whichever is greater)
 
Unqualified (U): Exceeded Q- limits
 
Basic Flight Training Qualification has the following objectives:
 
Contact Stage (VFR):
 1. Perform Ground Handling
2. Perform Take-Off and EFATO
3. Fly Traffic Pattern
4. Perform Approach and Landing
5. Perform Basic Maneuvers
6. Perform Advanced Handling
7. Perform Aerobatics
8. Respond to Emergencies

Instrument / Navigation Stage (IFR):
 9. Instrument Approach (Landing)
10. Instrument Flight Plan Navigation

Formation Stage:
 11. Fly 2 Ship as Wingman

Low-Level Stage
 12. Fly Low-Level Flight Plan
 
Good luck Cadet.  You are going to need it!
 

Although this is a payware campaign for DCS A-10C its actually very good for pilot trainning.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: micro on April 24, 2012, 06:09:37 am
I've been taking a vacation from FSX but had the urge to make a mini-vid tonight. It's not "pitching deck", but it sure is fun. Give it a try.

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on April 24, 2012, 06:48:08 am
I've been taking a vacation from FSX but had the urge to make a mini-vid tonight. It's not "pitching deck", but it sure is fun. Give it a try.



Micro, nice video, seems quite realistic...how do you get the voice telling you how far away you are from the AC ("two miles", "one mile"...)? I am not sure it's coming from Serge's vLSO...
Thanks,

Johan
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on April 24, 2012, 07:25:07 am
Nice video micro.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on April 25, 2012, 09:12:20 pm
Check out these mods:

http://royalefrenchnavy.gratisim.fr/RFN-Creations.htm

Quote
A virtual landing officer
Improved FLOLS visibility
CAT end speed adjusted to GW
ILS & TCN

Maybe you guys should have a chat with them and exchange ideas etc. This website looks quite good and I'll try to download it and test it sometime this week.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: micro on April 26, 2012, 07:57:47 pm
Johan, I sure hope it's the vLSO making the distance calls. Otherwise my computer is haunted.  ;)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on April 26, 2012, 08:29:42 pm
Johan, I sure hope it's the vLSO making the distance calls. Otherwise my computer is haunted.  ;)

Thanks Micro, I need to check why I don't hear the distance calls on my computer...I hear all the rest alright, especially the "wave-off's".. :)

Johan
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on April 27, 2012, 07:57:36 am
CASE III in bad weather conditions or at night is where the vLSO will call distance etc.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on May 07, 2012, 07:28:41 am
Serge...

Also, was thinking about the FCLP mission... do you have those set for a 3.0 GS or are those IFLOLS trailers also auto-set to 4.0?

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on May 07, 2012, 05:17:15 pm
Sludge,
if my memory serves me right, the Mk14 IFLOLS trailers were set to 3.75 at KNRA (NOLF Coupeville) and to 3.5 at KNJK (NAF El Centro).
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on May 07, 2012, 09:22:00 pm
Serge...

Am still trying to find the exact reference, but I thought the shore-based FLOLS/IFLOLS are based on a 3.0/3.2 Basic Angle GS due to lack of WoD. Whereas shipboard FLOLS/IFLOLS are set at 3.5 Basic Angle, that goes down to a 2.8 effective with ~27 kts WoD.

Not definitive, I know, but if I can get the reference information, CAN YOU change that in IFLOLS trailers?

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Victory103 on May 08, 2012, 09:38:51 am
Trying to find/dig in my CNATRA pubs for FCLP numbers.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on May 08, 2012, 10:11:17 am
LSO NATOPS has the info but I do not remember what the settings were during my testing of FCLPs for FSXNP some time ago now. FSXNP would have better access to that info. I recall that having a strong wind really helped with whatever glideslope was selected to use with whatever SLUDGE Hornet was in use at that time. As I recall the FSXNP FCLP Missions were set up with a strong wind, no turbulence, straight down the runway to give a better look at things and a slow groundspeed for practice.

Here is a bit of text from the LSO NATOPS. I'll post some pages soonish [now attached]:

http://info.publicintelligence.net/LSO-NATOPS-MAY09.pdf (2Mb)

"3.3.3.3 MK 14 System Set-up
The MK 14 has precision bubble levels installed on it for easier set-up. These bubble levels are mounted on the back of the source light box (Unit 1) and located just above jack 3, see Figure 3-4. One bubble is for roll and two for pitch. There is a 3.0° pitch bubble and a 3.25° pitch bubble. Typically the IFLOLS sites have concrete pads, which the MK 14 sits on, and the five jack locations are marked on the pad. The MK 14 is moved onto the pad and jacks 1, 2 and 3 are used to level the trailer in pitch and roll...."
&
"...Relative wind over the deck needs to be considered during FCLP to select a reasonable compromise on glideslope angle used, considering pilot senses, aircraft power response, LSO sight picture, and aircraft aerodynamics. When selecting a basic angle for FCLP with relatively light winds at the field, a 2-3/4° or 3° glideslope may have the pilot and the LSO seeing a low, flat glideslope. Additionally, the ball will be considerably more difficult to control as the aircraft approaches touchdown. This may become apparent in an excessive number of bolters or early touchdowns...."

There are two videos of one each of the dusk/night missions here:


&
[Mission 5 is very difficult] :-)



Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Victory103 on May 08, 2012, 10:22:16 am
3.25 for FLOLS. Each cell on the FLOLS is 1.5* wide, and 1.7* on the IFLOLS as found in CNATRA P-1211.

https://www.cnatra.navy.mil/pubs/ppub_t45_str.htm
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on May 08, 2012, 12:35:17 pm
IF this forum is searched for FCLP Missions there is a lot of info about it. FSXNP and myself found a lot of information about airfield lighting and all the other stuff required and many settings of lighting intensity and glideslope angles were tested to find the right fit with right weather conditions for the 5 FSXNP FCLP Missions (Rev2?) available now. I recall even the time of year was important to place the rising full moon above the horizon during the base turn. It helps. No clouds either I think?

I would guess that if someone wants to change the WX conditions in these missions then this is possible. Perhaps FSXNP could provide another 'different glideslope' mission or missions but that is up to him.

In the meantime here are some FCLP pages from the now very much out of date 'LSO Reference Manual Rev.B'. If anyone finds the most recent edition online then please let us know. It was revised in late 2010. PDF pages attached.

The last page has links to online Utube videos of FCLP for T-45C where the pilot notes the G/S is 3 degrees. However for the specific FSX Missions for FCLP I recall asking for higher G/S and strong winds as described earlier for the SLUDGE Hornet for those specific conditions. Try it - you'll like it.  ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on May 08, 2012, 12:55:39 pm
Thread page by FSXNP about the 'Vol.2' FCLP Missions excerpted here from here:

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=3211.120

"The FCLP Missions pack vol.2 is ready to go. You can get it from Avsim.com. search for FCLP Missions pack vol.2 or use direct link:
http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?DLID=155351&CatID=fsxmsn

File Description:
FCLP Missions pack vol.2 is an updated version of the original FCLP Missions pack. The new pack features an authentic IFLOLS Mk.14, a custom FSX lights texture and modified El Centro and Coupeville sceneries as well as the missions.

Filename: fclp_pack_vol2.zip
License: Freeware
Added: 25th December 2010
Downloads: 61
Author: Serge Luzin
Size: 21253kb
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on May 08, 2012, 01:15:50 pm
Latest edition of the USN LSO Newsletter has a page about FCLP (attached) from:

http://www.hrana.org/documents/PaddlesMonthlyMay2012.pdf (1.2Mb)

Back to the Basics: The Pattern

"As a young student naval aviator in VT-22 flying FCLP’s for the first time, a wise LSO once told me that 80% of a good pass can be attributed to flying a disciplined pattern and getting to a good start. After that the monkey skills of “meatball, lineup, angle of attack” that are developed in FCLP’s take over for the remaining 20% of the pass. After years of flying behind the ship and waving students, I think there is still a lot of truth to that. Whether you believe those percentages or you have some of your own, we all agree as LSO’s that a good start generally leads to a good pass. Whether it’s “on and on” at ¾ mile at night or stabilized on glide slope and centerline and on speed rolling into the groove during the day.

Any Training qualified LSO in the FRS or CNATRA will tell you that you don’t really appreciate the intricacies of the day Case 1 pattern until you have to teach it on a regular basis. Whether a pilot is learning to land on the ship for the first time or learning a new aircraft, you can’t assume they know everything there is to know about the pattern and it’s our job as LSO’s to teach them. Numbers in the crosswind turn, downwind gouge for getting to a good abeam, a good instrument turn off the 180, numbers in the approach turn, etc. are all critical to getting to that good start window that we all expect.

From my experience in the fleet, the basics of the Case 1 pattern are sometimes glossed over by LSO’s because of the experience level in the squadron or the need to teach other advanced topics like Airwing SOP to nuggets. However, it’s never too late to review the pattern with your squadron or airwing to ensure your pilots stay predictable behind the ship and to keep bad habits from adversely affecting performance. I think the best time to do this is during workups when you are briefing FCLP’s to your ready rooms. Instead of just telling a joke and briefing course rules to and from the outlying field, FCLP briefs are a great opportunity to reinforce the basics. I guarantee that you will learn a thing or two about the pattern that you may have forgotten since your days in the training command or FRS and you will be a better LSO and pilot for it.

As always, job security is high for Wing qualified LSO’s in Meridian and Kingsville. If you like flying 2-3 times a day and waiving (sic) ;D then the Training Command is calling your name. Keep ‘em safe and off the ramp.

LCDR Jim “Notso” Breitenfeld CNATRA LSO (8 years and counting)"
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on May 08, 2012, 07:20:36 pm
Thanks, Spaz.

I noticed in one of the documents you posted that the FCLP runway lighting includes a light that marks the abeam position (red light should be visible from the 180, faces the downwind). It is located a few lights up on the centerline, not sure if this is possible to do in FSX, but thought is was a cool idea.

-CAPT
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on May 08, 2012, 08:06:41 pm
FSXNP has the abeam light in Missions 4 (dusk) and 5 (night) at NOLF Coupeville. It is visible in the video. I'll try to get a screenshot. However most likely less visible once the very high quality video made by FRAPS (which I no longer have) is crunched down it is probably less visible. Anyhoo.... This 'enhanced' screenshot from what is now a low quality video online does not show it [abeam light] but the carrier deck lights have been 'highlighted'. FSXNP spent a lot of time getting the 'abeam light' visible correctly. Thankfully on a dark night the lights are visible from the correct distance including the carrier deck lights as seen from the deliberate left side approach. On my computer with the final setup the ball was visible beyond 1.5NM as I recall. Each mission is setup to be what it is with the WX and whatever Glideslope.

As mentioned in LSO NATOPS having too flat an approach at night makes the lights less visible amongst other effects in light wind. So having the mission with higher than normal perhaps G/S and strong wind down runway no turbulence increases the carrier deck visibility from higher start etc. A good thing at night. FCLP is never going to be the same as an actual carrier landing and this is always acknowledged. The purpose of FCLP is to get the pilot to concentrate on 'meatball, lineup and airspeed (Opt AoA)' without distractions of daytime visibility or night time lights at a main airfield for example. Hence everything is BLACK for night FCLP with a higher circuit height etc.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on May 08, 2012, 10:15:12 pm
Thanks, Spaz. I don't see it in the picture, but I will look for it next time I fly some FCLPs in Serge's mission.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on May 08, 2012, 10:45:06 pm
When you are within the 'abeam' parameters you should hear an abeam call if I remember correctly? I don't have FSX installed at moment to check.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on May 10, 2012, 02:10:50 am
I think this is it right? (white arrow pointing to the red light/abeam light)

CAPT
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on May 10, 2012, 02:16:02 am
A couple of ideas how about the LSO voice remaining to one character per each approach or is there more than one in each landing IRL? (could have randomised selection for the LSO voice or a cycled character for each approach eg voice 1 approach 1, 2 for approach 2 etc)I've checked out all the audio files and the Tanker calls sound cool it will be great when a tanker is added.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on May 10, 2012, 05:34:22 am
'capthaltli' thanks, nice screenshot. Attached is my modified .GIF version of your screenshot to better display the 'carrier deck' lights for FCLP with the 'abeam light'.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: bentwing on May 10, 2012, 06:07:02 pm
Hello Folks:

First of all, I'm new to carrier ops in FSX, so please excuse my ignorance. I'm learning and was quite excited to discover vLSO a few days ago. Great stuff!

Unfortunately, vLSO has me beat! Its not working. I've been scouring the forums both here and VRS, reading and rereading to figure out what I'm missing. No luck.

In a nutshell, I'm having the exact same problem robertorizzo was struggling with in posts# 283, 286, 291. I'm running Win 7-64, FSX Accel, aircarriers, Nimitz-EisenhowerV2, and the most recent versionn of vLSO.  vLSO starts up fine and recognizes the carrier (green message bar in upper left providing data from carrier tower) and I hear the marshalling distance calls at night and in bad weather, but thats it. I hear no LSO calls, get no landing grades, and no log file is generated in the vLSO. I beleive I've  tried everthing suggested in the forums (make sure the right options buttons are pushed, gear down, run as admin, etc.) except for testing an earlier version of vLSO (0.3 or 0.4), which seem to work for some folks.

And so. . . hat and hand I'm in search of help. What am I doing wrong? Where could I find an earlier version of vLSO to try?

Thanks in advance!

Bentwing
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on May 10, 2012, 07:11:27 pm
Bentwing, sorry for the issues.

Are you in manual ball call or auto in vLSO?

CAPT
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: bentwing on May 10, 2012, 09:55:14 pm
Yes, this has me baffled!

I've tried both modes with no luck.

Bentwing
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on May 11, 2012, 09:15:00 am
Check that you have the audio files as there was a version which had them missing which is why it did not work for some people. Try the latest vLSO 0.6b from the start of this thread and also if its giving you a CASE 1 or III call then its working. If its not detecting you at 3/4 of a mile then you must be outside the parameters for it to detect you so try checking ILS bars and also meatball is centre and not red might help.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: bentwing on May 11, 2012, 04:34:11 pm
Thanks for the feedback.

I'm using version 0.6B, and the sound files are present. Based on ILS and meatball I believe I've been within the parameters at 3/4 of a mile.

I'll try again, and double check. Maybe I am just that bad!

Thanks,
Bentwing
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on May 12, 2012, 02:59:05 am
Are you approaching the right carrier? ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on May 12, 2012, 04:38:24 am
Guys,
I slightly modified the program so now you can have a log file (vLSO_log.txt), where the program registers some crucial events. Just run the program with the log command line option, i.e. vLSO.exe log for example, and the program will create (or append) the vLSO_log.txt file in its main folder.

Note a new version numbering scheme - 0.6.3.7 beta  :)

Get it from http://www.gamefront.com/files/21686848/vLSO_0637_zip (http://www.gamefront.com/files/21686848/vLSO_0637_zip)

In case of problems with the gamefront try this http://www.filedropper.com/vlso0637 (http://www.filedropper.com/vlso0637)

bentwing,
Could you run the vLSO with the log option and then post here your vLSO_log.txt file?
Thanks
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: wilycoyote4 on May 12, 2012, 06:38:51 am
I haxen't been able to download from this link.  Any other way?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release Manual & audio sound files
Post by: Artopsy on May 12, 2012, 09:30:28 am
Just want to say wow and thanks. great program!!!
Those of us that are new to carrier ops need something like this and I'm sure vets do too.

I notice zip files of versions b6.1, b6.2 and the latest vLSO_0637, found on game front, don't have the the needed sound files, VLSO Manual, font or ini file these are 4 to 5 meg files and just contain the exe
It still works (at least on win 7 with FSX accel) but no sound.

If you don't get sound this might be why. Find the full package, here it should be 15-16 megs

http://www.gamefront.com/files/21417589/vLSO.zip (http://www.gamefront.com/files/21417589/vLSO.zip)   I think this is the 6.0 or 6.1 dated 3-11-2012   I would guess you can then  then update the exe to taste.

It took me a while to put all this together so I thought I would post a reply for other noobs like me who aren't on the ball

and thanks again fsxnavypilot  great work!!!!!  



Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on May 12, 2012, 12:31:19 pm
That's right! Here is a complete 0.6.3.7 version with all the bells and whistles - http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=4915.msg45464#msg45464 (http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=4915.msg45464#msg45464)  :)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: bentwing on May 13, 2012, 04:49:19 am
I think I've found my problem, and its between my ears!

Yesterday, I was able to get several graded carrier landings. I upgraded to the latest version of vLSO this afternoon and got a couple more. I stink at carrier landings, and my grades are VERY ugly! I'm inconsistent and definitely need alot more practice and study!

I supect my entire problem was my approaches were nowhere near spec for vLSO to recognize them as landing attempts or warrant LSO calls. What I thought was acceptable clearly wasn't. I think working on this for the last week or so simply improved my skill enough to actually get some grades and LSO instruction.

I've attached my logbook.dat, just in case a software glitch might appear as a contribuiting factor. A software glitch would ease my bruised ego, but I doubt  one will be found!

Despite my troubles, this is an AWESOME piece of software!!! I definitely have a new found appreciation and deepest thanks for the developer and everyone who has contributed to vLSO, and to all of our carrier veterans who did this stuff in real life in service to their country.

Thanks everyone!

Bentwing
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on May 13, 2012, 08:42:38 am
Awesome work FSXNAVYPILOT why were the other features removed eg the 6 traps/10 traps qual etc?
Title: Re: vLSO 06.3.7 Beta release
Post by: SandPro on May 13, 2012, 03:34:48 pm
After installing and running, I was getting windows errors on any audio callout issued. An error expample:  Cannot open file "C:/Windows/System32/"PaddlesContact". The system cannot find the file specified.  Of course I heard no audio.... with about 20 repeated windows errors popping up until I paused.

I closed and ran (via command prompt) vLSO.exe log. The log file was created and the audio is now working fine. Of course, I no longer received any more audio errors.

I deleted the log file and ran again normally... Again the error on any audio calls.
I tested creating an empty vLSO_log.txt file.. restarted normally and again received audio errors.

For me, it appears I MUST at least run vLSO.exe log ... at LEAST ONCE.. to generate the log file... for it to run without the audio errors.
The the folder must contain a generated log file to work properly?

(win7 64bit)

SandPro
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on May 18, 2012, 09:43:49 pm
Hi Serge,

I have a question for you:
As you are able to launch vLSO automatically through the EXE.xml file, is it also possible to launch aicarrier2 automatically through EXE.xml, setting a carrier on a specific lat/long location and going forward?
Thank you,

Johan

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Orion on May 19, 2012, 12:30:32 am
As you are able to launch vLSO automatically through the EXE.xml file, is it also possible to launch aicarrier2 automatically through EXE.xml, setting a carrier on a specific lat/long location and going forward?

If you just want a carrier at a predefined location, it'd be much more simple to create an AI boat schedule.  You can do so with Lamont Clark's utility, AIBTC: http://lc0277.gratisim.fr/boat/.

However, I did suggest adding functionality to vLSO similar to AICarriers2r2: http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=6374.msg55910#msg55910.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on May 19, 2012, 12:56:10 am
Thanks Orion, I will try the AI boat schedule, and yes, I am following your previous request with much interest.

Johan
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on May 20, 2012, 08:17:09 am
Might want to add A7D/E to list of aircraft for vLSO.

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: texxasal on May 31, 2012, 02:12:06 pm
Rel 0.6.3.7

A request for some additional information:

I have noticed that is a very rare occurrence when the Comments field is more than 50% populated with information. :-\

I would like to see an additional column added to the LSO Logbook; :-*

   CASEx Operation (so we can track the circumstances of the approach/landing) 8)

I think this information is easilly available, since the "Marshal" gives the call for the type of operation that's in progress, and the the field to provide the information would be the same size as the "WIRE" field. :D

Thanks very much for a most useful tool. ;)

Al Rosenberg
www.cvw-2.org

   
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Letourn on June 01, 2012, 02:32:52 am
Hi Serge,

I update the VLSO from 0.6b to 0.6.3.7 and now when i open it I get a smaller windows and i cannot resize it.

Did not have that problem with 0.6b. Im running in surround resolution at 6005 x 1200.

thanks
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on June 01, 2012, 04:30:11 am
Letourn,
Please check your vLSO.ini file and make sure these parameters are set as follows:
Width=1187
Height=701
The resizable windows were introduced to fit small monitors running at resolutions 1024x768. Is it a useful feature?

texxasal,
I thought D/N date notation would suffice  ;) What would be better - just replace D/N with Case info or sacrifice some logbook space and add another column?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: texxasal on June 01, 2012, 04:45:23 am
As a matter of personal preference, I would op for the reduction in size of the Logbook Space, since I don't often see the commentary taking up more than 1/2 of the space of the field. ;D

Thanks again.
This tool is an integral part of our operations with the VRS Superbug & TacPack.

AL
www.cvw-2.org
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Letourn on June 03, 2012, 12:13:00 am
I did verify the setting in the vLSO.ini file and these parameters are set as follows:
Width=1187
Height=701

I did some more testing and found out that if i use a shortcut in windows it does give me that problem but if i execute the file directly i dont have this issue.

So i went back to 0.6b and can use the shortcut and everything is fine.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on June 03, 2012, 05:11:38 pm
Ok, could you open your shortcut's properties window and see what Run setting is selected - normal window or maximized?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Letourn on June 03, 2012, 09:26:14 pm
yes i verified That before posting. i tried them both but still have the same problem.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on June 26, 2012, 05:48:05 am
For all the CarrierOps lovers, I recommend this great addon FSX2BMAP by Koji Tsubakimoto (available at simviation and flightsim), which let you see your AC Carrier traffic (and other ship traffic) on a separate screen. You can spot them 40 miles away...It is a really nice app, no FPS impact.

Johan
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: mangold on July 17, 2012, 06:30:05 pm
Guten Tag.
vLSO newbie here. Started with v0.6.3.7 beta. Excellent prog, thanks very much !!!
Sometimes vLSO is running perfectly, sometimes not.
Some of my data: Win7 64bit*FSX Gold*vLSO in C:\Program Files (x86)*Sound and Marshal files present*.ini file unchanged*SimConnect+Flight Sim X show always green*LSO level NUG selected*Ball Call auto*I fly VRS F-18 E v1.2.1.0 SE*Javiers AICarrier2*always free flight, no missions.

I often run freeware FSXGET http://fsxget.codeplex.com/ * FSXGET connects FSX via SimConnect like vLSO.
I observed FSXGET makes vLSO stopping to work. Even when I stop FSXGET vLSO does not recover. I must restart FSX without FSXGET to regain vLSO.
Also Javiers AICarriers, FSUIPC, VRS F-18 and FSX make use of SimConnect (correct me if wrong)
I have zero knowledge about programming. Perhaps a look into the SimConnect-part of vLSO can help to clear some issues some simmers report in this thread.
vLSO remains a fine peace of software. Perhaps a newbie-observation can help to make vLSO finer.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on July 18, 2012, 10:43:48 am
mangold,
My guess is that the problem is in FSXGET, which uses SimConnect and obviously intercepts all SimConnect event messages. Do other SimConnect clients, like FSUIPC or AICarriers work well when FSXGET is running?. Do you start vLSO prior to FSXGET? I'm not sure, but try to start FSXGET first, then vLSO and see what happens.
Thanks for your observation!  :)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: mangold on July 18, 2012, 07:26:36 pm
fsxnavypilot thanks for reply.
AICarriers and FSXGET are working well together most time.
Sometimes FSXGET crashes without crashing FSX.
Sometimes FSX crashes while AICarriers is running. Dont know why.
Next I will test vLSO start before/after FSGET.
St by I call back here.


Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on July 19, 2012, 03:48:49 am
Hi Serge,

I just acquired EZCA (Ezdok) and Track IR5. vLSO works great with EZCA, but doesn't seem to engage with EZCA and Track IR on at the same time...although the menu is here and all the checkboxes are green...I am looking in the forum if this was already discussed, but can't find it.
Any advice?

Thanks,

Johan
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on July 19, 2012, 06:14:02 am
Johan,
There were some EZCA-TiR5 incompatibilities reported. Both use SimConnect and perhaps that's the reason vLSO doesn't work properly. I have none of them so I can't recreate your situation and try to sort it out... However, you can google and read lots of discussions on this issue:
http://forum.naturalpoint.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=51546
http://forum.avsim.net/topic/316385-track-ir-fsx/
http://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/48683-ezca-trackir-and-movement-freeze-need-advice/
etc....
Hope this helps
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on July 19, 2012, 07:15:08 am
Thanks Serge, I'll check these out.

Johan
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: mangold on July 19, 2012, 07:34:08 pm
vLSO and FSXGET can function side by side flawlessly - thanks again fsxnavypilot.
VLSO has to be started before FSX and a strict set up sequence has to be complied with.

However each aircraft chrash (not FXS crash) disables vLSO in that no more flights are logged (SimConnect+Flight SimX cont showing green)
FSXGET continues working unharmed after aircraft crash, same Javiers AICarriers.

To regain vLSO I have to shut down FSXGet+FSX+AICarriers and reset every thing from scratch.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Jymp on July 22, 2012, 02:26:48 pm
I don't have FSXGET and cannot keep vLSO connected, I've only been able to do three passes at the boat (Javier's Nimitz/Ike) with it, and that was only with Sludge's Hornet, and sometimes it will not stay connected with that, I've tried Dino's F-14D and T-45C but it will not connect at all with those birds.
Title: Re: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: ruprecht on July 22, 2012, 02:32:16 pm
Just wanted to say thank you for this epic mod. After 20 passes today, it's working like a champion.  Got my first OK 3 on pass 18 :) that made my weekend.

One question: I get perma-scrollbars in the logbook and debrief, even on 1920x1080 screens.  I can't seem to resize it over the default size, even maximising it only pushes it up into the top left corner.  Is this fixable, or planned? Apologies if I've missed this in the thread, I read all of the pages but may have missed it.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: ruprecht on July 22, 2012, 03:14:22 pm
er, also while I think of it... are there any plans to track currency in accordance with NATOPS, including day and night CQ?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Jymp on July 23, 2012, 02:26:57 am
Cannot get vLSO to connect at all now, it connected 3 passes yesterday, but will not connect at all now, haven't changed anything, weired.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on July 23, 2012, 06:10:09 pm
er, also while I think of it... are there any plans to track currency in accordance with NATOPS, including day and night CQ?

Ruprecht,

Serge did talk about adding such a feature to track the number of approaches flown (day/night), and then give a "qual'd" call from the LSO based on your grades. Seems like this could be added to the vLSO interface (UI), with a simple function that looks at the number of approaches flown over the past days/weeks, grade point average (>3.0), and then determines if you are current/qual'd in accordance with NATOPS. Don't know the NATOPS numbers off hand, but let's say you flew 7 approaches in the last 10 days, you would get a "day qual'd" indication on the vLSO, once 11 days pass, you would need to get requald or something, and the indications would change. Again these currency numbers are made up, not NATOPS.

See pic below for an example, could add qual status, including expiration to the GPA table.

CAPT

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on July 23, 2012, 08:53:13 pm
Jymp...

Cannot get vLSO to connect at all now, it connected 3 passes yesterday, but will not connect at all now, haven't changed anything, weired.

What sequence do you start the vLSO? Do you start up FSX then load vLSO? Or the opposite, vLSO then FSX? Win 7? Obviously, you have FSX w/Acceleration for the Hornet to work, so anything else you are running with when you load up FSX, such as REX2?

Just trying to help you give Serge a bigger picture of what is happening when you get the "non-connect" errors on vLSO. The best help you can give Serge is to give your full system specs, then tell him how you start both FSX and vLSO. Finally, post a screenshot of the main vLSO window when its NOT connected, so Serge can make his evaluations and advise you further.

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Jymp on July 23, 2012, 11:18:20 pm
System specs are : Intel i7 950, Nvidia GTX285, Asus P6T Deluxe V2 Motherboard, 6GB Mushkin memory, 750 W power supply, 2 Raptor HD's, FSX on it's own drive (E), Doesnt matter which way I try to start vLSO, before FSX or after, says its connected on the vLSO UI, but on the task bar near the Microsoft flag, it changes from green to gray as I change from plane to plane, or date, or location, hope this helps.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on July 24, 2012, 01:24:38 am
Jymp...

System specs are : Intel i7 950, Nvidia GTX285, Asus P6T Deluxe V2 Motherboard, 6GB Mushkin memory, 750 W power supply, 2 Raptor HD's, FSX on it's own drive (E), Doesnt matter which way I try to start vLSO, before FSX or after, says its connected on the vLSO UI, but on the task bar near the Microsoft flag, it changes from green to gray as I change from plane to plane, or date, or location, hope this helps.

Thanks. What WINDOWS are you using? Can you post screenshots of the vLSO screen AND the taskbar as the situation occurs?

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on July 24, 2012, 01:40:43 am
'Jymp' I have not used vLSO etc. but looking at the specs I see that FSX is not on the system D: drive. I think this alone will introduce problems. Try installing FSX on D: drive if that is feasible? Always I allow FSX to install 'as advertised'. In the past attempting to install to another directory or drive has always caused problems of some kind. However 'your mileage may vary'. YMMV.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Jymp on July 24, 2012, 01:44:12 am
Windows 7 64 bit, hmmm, not sure how to post screensshots, all I know is whenever I click something in FSX, the little circle goes from green with a check mark to grey with a check mark, the vLSO UI however is still green as if I'm connected, the three times I did connect I had a green bar at the top of my FSX screen saying something about CVN68, it went away and then I heard LSO chatter as I was taking off from KNTU going to the boat
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on July 24, 2012, 05:51:02 am
Jymp
Doesnt matter which way I try to start vLSO, before FSX or after, says its connected on the vLSO UI, but on the task bar near the Microsoft flag, it changes from green to gray as I change from plane to plane, or date, or location, hope this helps.
There's something wrong with your FSX installation, I guess. The vLSO taskbar icon changes from green to grey whenever you toggle FSX master sound switch (the Q key by default). I've never seen that FSX toggles master sound when changing planes, locations etc. If the icon is grey, vLSO mutes all its sounds and you can't hear any calls, but FSX and SimConnect indicators remain green, i.e. the program does work. Try pressing the Q key and see what happens.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Jymp on July 24, 2012, 12:57:04 pm
I'm sure the FSX install is fine, it finally runs very smooth, I'm going to re-install vLSO, see what happens then, I tried the "Q" key, no difference in vLSO, it did toggle the FSX sound as it should, I just think it strange when I first installed vLSO it worked fine, now nothing, and I didn't change a thing, except planes, location and time.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Jymp on July 24, 2012, 01:07:17 pm
Just re-installed, same thing, when I start vLSO I have a green icon next to the Windows flag, when FSX starts its still green, but when I change to a Hornet, Tomcat, Goshawk etc. it turns grey, however it still says I'm connected in the vLSO UI, but I can't be because I don't hear any vLSO sounds, all the other sounds are there.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: ruprecht on July 24, 2012, 02:50:04 pm
[Don't know the NATOPS numbers off hand, but let's say you flew 7 approaches in the last 10 days, you would get a "day qual'd" indication on the vLSO, once 11 days pass, you would need to get requald or something, and the indications would change.

Yep that would be awesome.  NATOPS requal requirements vary according to how long it's been since you were last qualified, but that could definitely be extrapolated from the dates.  I suppose the FCLP requirement could be moved to a boat for sim purposes.  There could even be a leaderboard on the proposed greenie upload showing the drivers with the longest continuous period of qualification, draw attention to newly qualified nuggets, etc?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: ruprecht on July 24, 2012, 02:52:04 pm
See pic below for an example

I note this pic doesn't have scrollbars on the vLSO window, so I must be doing something wrong on both my systems because I can't get rid of them.  Is it a font thing maybe?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Jymp on July 25, 2012, 12:22:31 am
Is there a certain procedure to starting vLSO ?, I can't understand why it ran fine the first three passes I used it but cannot connect since, I hate that because the times it worked it was outstanding, LSO calling distance etc., just as a real LSO., small update, just noticed I can click on "Missions", "Multiplayer" etc. the green icon will stay green, when I click on "Free Flight", it goes grey, don't know if this will help but thought I'd pass it along.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on July 25, 2012, 04:47:46 am
Jymp,
The program doesn't require any installation procedures, all you have to do is just run its executable.
What is really weird is that FSX toggles master sound as you go for free flight, change planes etc. The vLSO just receives SimConnect notifications on switching FSX sounds on/off and toggles its own sounds respectively. To inform the user it also changes its icon from green to grey and vice versa.
I have no idea why your FSX toggles sounds by itself... Perhaps there's something wrong with SimConnect part of the installation?.. Can you reinstall FSX and try again? As a guess, maybe there are lost clusters on your HDD or something?...
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: JamesChams on July 25, 2012, 10:39:12 am
Mr. "fsxnavypilot,"

A very lovely and useful addon - Bravo! 8)

... So, I decided to test it today for the first time with the new Blue Angles F/A-18 v12.3.1, Dino's T-45C v2.21, & VRS' SH and ran into a few minor issues that I wanted to bring to your attention.

I know its a work in progress (WIP), so I wanted to mention a couple of technical issues that hopefully you can resolve at some point, which are mainly functional to the interface and the sim.
1. I cannot adjust/extend the width or height parameters for the GUI; either in the vLSO.ini on the application parent window.  Even if the GUI is maximized it is unchanged and will NOT fill the screen. (Please see vLSO.png)
2. despite having the module code statements in exe.xml file and trusting it, it does NOT load along with the Sim; I have to manually launch it by double clicking th application (vLSO.exe) file.
Code: [Select]
<Launch.Addon>
    <Name>vLSO</Name>
    <Disabled>False</Disabled>
    <Path>C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Games\vLSO\vLSO.exe</Path>
    <CommandLine>auto</CommandLine>
  </Launch.Addon>

That aside, I only had a few runs at it but found it quite enjoyable.  I will play around with more of its features soon.  keep up the good work and thanks for making this freely available. ;)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Jymp on July 25, 2012, 12:54:40 pm
Thanks for your help fsxnavypilot, very appreciated. I start vLSO, little icon is green, on the UI "Simconnect" is green, "On Screen Messages" is green, "Flight Simulator" is red, I start FSX and it goes directly to the default Trike Ultralight Friday Harbor default flight in "Free Flight", "Flight Simulator" in vLSO is now green, little icon is now grey, if I switch to "Home" "Missions" "Multiplayer" "Pilot Records" "Learning Center" or "Settings", icon will turn green again, so whatever the issue is it must have to do with "Free Flight".   Hope this helps.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Jymp on July 25, 2012, 07:12:35 pm
Just took a look at the .cfg in vLSO, the only plane there is a S-3 Viking, shouldn't there be a listing for a F18, F14, T45, F18E etc ?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on July 25, 2012, 07:18:40 pm
Jymp...

Just took a look at the .cfg in vLSO, the only plane there is a S-3 Viking, shouldn't there be a listing for a F18, F14, T45, F18E etc ?

In the MANUAL, there's a list of all the planes that are built as DEFAULT into the program. I'm at work, but I think its the default, the Sludge, the VRS, the T-45C, and maybe the F-14? You can look at the exact list in the manual that comes with it. The S-3 is an additional that also gives you a template/format so you can add your own aircraft as they come along.

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Jymp on July 25, 2012, 08:50:36 pm
All I know is when I select Free Flight, the green circle turns grey, when I select anything else it will go back green, however the 3 times it worked I was in Free Flight, I'm completely baffled as to why it will not work now
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on July 25, 2012, 11:41:48 pm
Jymp...

All I know is when I select Free Flight, the green circle turns grey, when I select anything else it will go back green, however the 3 times it worked I was in Free Flight, I'm completely baffled as to why it will not work now

Fair enough, was just trying to help with the troubleshooting and letting you know that most of the commonly-used aircraft are already included in the program itself.

Still puzzled about your button/functionality "grey out" problems. Hopefully, Serge is getting some traction figuring out what's happening? Anybody else have something similar?

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Jymp on July 26, 2012, 12:32:50 am
Must have something to do with "Free Flight" Sludge, all looks good until I go there, then its grey only, thanks for trying to help.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Jymp on July 26, 2012, 04:55:24 am
Ok, bit of a development here, when I downloaded vLSO I extracted it to a new folder on my desktop, I've been trying to run the .exe from there, just for the heck of it I made a copy of the .exe and put it on the desktop, tried Jimi08's Hornet from Oceana out to the Nimitz, It works !, I hear all the LSO calls, get graded and everything, but....(You knew one was coming) when I try to change planes to Sludges Hornet or Dino's Tomcat, I don't hear anything but the plane flying, but the little green icon is green when vLSO is running.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on July 26, 2012, 05:50:22 am
Ok guys,
Here's a special dev release 0.6.4, mostly for Jymp and JamesChams  http://www.gamefront.com/files/22036549/vLSO_64.zip (http://www.gamefront.com/files/22036549/vLSO_64.zip)
There are two exe files inside the zip, they are almost identical, but the vLSO_1.exe doesn't care about FSX master sound switch and its windows can't be resized.

Both support a new command line option log, which creates the vLSO_log.txt file in the program's folder. To activate this feature run vLSO.exe log command, or add this option to the vLSO shortcut.
Run the program and FSX, fly your airplane and close the program. Then you can open the vLSO_log.txt and see all the registered events.

Please try both versions to see any difference.

And finally, these are not compatible with previous 0.6.3.* versions, so you'll have to remove your Logbook.dat files first.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Jymp on July 26, 2012, 12:52:31 pm
Just ran both, still no LSO sounds, in fact I now get several boxes with a red X, telling me "Cannot open file" "C\users\John\AppData\Local\Temp 7z0D374.tmp\Waveoff" the system cannot find the file specified", the other boxes say the same but instead of "Waveoff" it says "Call Ball", could this problem have anything to do with I have FSX Accel. on its own drive to itself ?, I have a "C" drive for everything, and a "E" drive for FSX Accel. only
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Jymp on July 27, 2012, 02:22:33 am
Ok, thanks for the help guys, I'm going to have to delete this program, it ran good the 3 or 4 times it did work but I've tried most of the day but cannot get it to work anymore no matter what I try, thanks again.      EDIT :Wow, this is one hit and miss program, at least for me, I try one last time before deleting it and it works fine, I shut it and FSX down, restart both and cannot connect at all, uurrgghh
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on July 27, 2012, 04:52:49 am
Jymp,
Did you try the log option? I'd like to take a look at your vLSO_log.txt file....  :)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Jymp on July 27, 2012, 05:05:03 am
I tried that newer version you posted for James and me, couldn't get that to work at all, got a bunch of boxes with red X's on them, but if you walk me thru the .txt file idea I'll sure try it and send it to ya.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on July 27, 2012, 05:19:15 am
Ok, the easiest way is to create a shortcut to the program, i.e. vLSO.exe, and set the option as explained in the manual, page 6 (just replace the auto option with log).
After you run the program, you'll have the vLSO_log.txt file in the program's folder. This is a plain text file and you can open it with any text editor, Notepad for example.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Jymp on July 27, 2012, 10:31:54 am
Ok, will try it
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Jymp on July 27, 2012, 12:52:38 pm
I can't get it to connect to register any events, but here's my EXE.XML file as I found it without any changes, its a bit different from whats in the manual, should it say "vLSO", instead of "ai carriers"   ??, the "ai carriers" I believe is from Javiers Nimitz, also I have the extracted program in a folder on my desktop, then I have a shortcut of vLSO.exe on my desktop.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on July 28, 2012, 06:30:28 am
Jymp,
Just add another section to your EXE.xml file, like this one (from my personal setup):

   <Launch.Addon>
          <Name>vLSO</Name>
     <Disabled>False</Disabled>
     <Path>C:\vLSO\vLSO.exe</Path>
     <CommandLine>auto log</CommandLine>
   </Launch.Addon>

Note, that my copy of vLSO is kept in its own folder on the C: drive (it could well be any other drive or folder, whatever), this hepls to easily find it. I just hate keep things on the desktop...
So, your FSX should now launch both AICarriers and vLSO. Hope this helps  :)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Jymp on July 28, 2012, 01:59:33 pm
Thanks, gonna try this, one question, being my FSX is installed on its own drive by itself should I put vLSO in its own folder on that drive under FSX, or just put it on C drive with AI Carriers, or move both to the drive with FSX ?      Edit : Tried to copy and paste your file to mine but I cannot paste or add anything to my XML file, what am I doing wrong here ?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on July 28, 2012, 06:50:44 pm
Ok,
First open your exe.xml in Notepad and paste the section from my previous post. Save it.
Then create the vLSO folder on the C: drive and follow the procedure described in the manual:
To install the program just unzip the downloaded archive, maintaining its internal folders
structure, to a folder of your choice. For example, we'll create a new folder at the root folder of
C: drive, name it vLSO and unzip the archive to this folder. You should have there these four
files and two subfolders – Sound and Sound\Marshal

In this case C:\vLSO is that folder of your choice  :)
Now your FSX should launch vLSO automatically.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Jymp on July 28, 2012, 07:32:18 pm
Well tried it, didnt work of course, when I open my XML file with notepad, its all one continuous line across top of screen, when I try to edit with your XML file edits I get a line of the word "False" all across my screen in my XML file, another question, I have both Jimi08's FSXBA Hornet and the Sludge Hornet, could that maybe be a conflict ?, but it will not work with Dino's Tomcat or T45C so I don't know, is there anyone here that ever gets on Teamspeak ?, I think it would be a help, also I remember the few times I got it to work I had the realism settings to "Hard", I usually keep them on "Medium"
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Jymp on July 28, 2012, 10:23:29 pm
Just took a look at the VRS forums, seems there quite a few folks there who have the same problem as I with vLSO, while its not good folks are having issues, at least I know it not just me
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Jymp on July 29, 2012, 12:09:18 am
I put the vLSO folder in C, program files, put shortcut on my desktop and it works like a charm, go figure
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: JamesChams on July 30, 2012, 02:36:59 am
Mr. "Jymp,"
I put the vLSO folder in C, program files, put shortcut on my desktop and it works like a charm, go figure

You might have an *OLD unrelated issue* to do with a corrupt registry entry for FSX path within Windows which prevents app.'s working with FS to find FS directory structure from FS' exe.xml, dll.xml, scenery.cfg, fsx.cfg, etc....

Here is a tool that fixes that from Flight1's Main Page: http://www.flight1.com/view.asp?page=library
DOWNLOAD HERE: FSX/FS9 Registry Repair Tool (36KB) (http://www.flight1software.com/files/FS_Registry_Repair.exe)

Enjoy! :)

*******************************************************************************

Mr. "FSXNAVYPILOT,"

Thank you for the update(s); however, it did NOT quite work out as expected.  While re-trusting and restarting FSX before launching vLSO (under "auto log") did work, I am still having issues with the MDL Parent window (i.e. resizing) and the panes NOT resizing together correctly in either of these versions (both vLSO v0.6.4 - vLSO.exe & vLSO_1.exe).
[Please see attached]

Thanks! :)

EDIT: Attached vLSO LOG file bellow (at the bottom)!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Jymp on July 30, 2012, 05:11:08 am
Thanks James, reckon I will try it, cause vLSO isn't working again, uurrgghh.     EDIT : Just tried it, didn't work, anyone else have any ideas, well I guess it does say beta.   EDIT 2  This is strange, I just tried to run this program 10 times, everything the same all times, only 3 out of ten was I able to connect.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on July 30, 2012, 05:20:41 am
I am still having issues with the MDL Parent window (i.e. resizing) and the panes NOT resizing together correctly

Well, here's my latest 0.6.4 update http://www.gamefront.com/files/22054052/vLSO_64.zip (http://www.gamefront.com/files/22054052/vLSO_64.zip). Now the window's width and height are set explicitly and should not exceed predefined limits (1187x701). I have no idea how this could happen, but on your system the program counts its window's sizes much larger than they should be, that's why you see those strange pictures. Hope this update will work fine...
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Orion on July 30, 2012, 07:13:07 am
I have no idea how this could happen, but on your system the program counts its window's sizes much larger than they should be, that's why you see those strange pictures. Hope this update will work fine...

High DPI?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on July 30, 2012, 01:13:00 pm
Bingo! Orion, thank you for the heads-up. Here's the updated program http://www.gamefront.com/files/22055042/vLSO_64.zip (http://www.gamefront.com/files/22055042/vLSO_64.zip), which now supports various screen resolutions, not just the default 96 dpi. It was successfully tested on 120 dpi and 72 dpi modes.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Tregarth on July 30, 2012, 06:18:11 pm
Dear FSXNP,

Is this download only for 64 bit Win 7 or will it work for 32 bit as well?

Also, will it work for El Centro in FCLP?

Thanks,

Tregarth
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on July 30, 2012, 08:25:10 pm
Tregarth,
Is this download only for 64 bit Win 7 or will it work for 32 bit as well?

Also, will it work for El Centro in FCLP?
I do not plan to create a separate 64-bit version, so this program should work equally well on both 32 and 64 win versions, win7 or xp.
Currently there's no FCLP support, sorry... But it will be in future releases, be sure.  :)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on July 30, 2012, 08:37:25 pm
But it will be in future releases, be sure.  :)

Awesome!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Jymp on July 31, 2012, 01:28:23 pm
In trying to help development from my experience with vLSO, heres what I've found :, I run vLSO, then start FSX, select one of the vLSO default planes ie: Sludge Hornet, Dino's Tomcat or T45C, set up location and time, click "Fly Now", select Javier's Nimitz, vLSO does not do anything, I end flight, then restart flight and vLSO connects everytime and works fine,  I see the green bar at top of screen saying Case I or III recovery, hope this helps.      Also fsxnavypilot, could you add jimi08's Hornet and maybe the Iris FSX Tomcat to the default list  ?, and will vLSO work with the new FSX Enterprise just released ?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Tregarth on July 31, 2012, 06:43:49 pm
But it will be in future releases, be sure.  :)

Awesome!

Can't wait!!

Tregarth
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Doum76 on August 01, 2012, 06:52:13 pm
Greetings,

I've got all working fine exept one thing, since i've been doing some Case III Approches, once in a while i get no sound/calls exept the 3/4miles and roger ball ones, once in a while i can get the Marshal CV-1 approach call and all the miles calls, paddles, 3/4 mile and roger ball, but some others all i get is the green line a 10 miles about the CASE III Recovery/Approach and no other voices/calls as i said until the 3/4 miles... is there any trigger or something?

Thanks,
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Orion on August 01, 2012, 06:56:37 pm
Are you flying perfect OK 3 approaches? :P
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Doum76 on August 01, 2012, 07:16:00 pm
Nah no Ok 3 underlined so far with Case III :P

humm hold on a sec, i just thought about something, my first tries were night and dusk time, and i decided to made them day time with bad weather, in day time would be easier for a movie since it's brighter, and just realised the green line on my daytime CASE III stated Case I.... didn't seen that before, so it detect night time for a Case III, but even if daytime, with less than 1 mile visibility it.s still state Case I.... gonna try this out, same weather but make it night time.

Here's a little vid i made, showing, Dawn, Day, Dusk and Night and ending with anotehr Day with visibility down to 1/2 mile.... Is there anyway way we can make the calls even in day time, or is it entirely part of the application?



Thanks
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Doum76 on August 01, 2012, 10:10:19 pm
Humm,

Well i'Ve tried to install the latest version found a few post up, the 0.6.4.0 as i was reading the thread.. and now odds stuff occurs, i always get No Grades and same comments, very high from the start up to the ramp.... i replaced the .exe application, deleted the log book... did a few tries and always get the same, No grade etc... so i decided to delete my folder, re-install the first version from the upper post in this thread, so i use the default files, then updated the exe with the lastest mentionned up here... and now, no matter what, i get wave off calls, ending up in cut-offs with the same comments. Always very high... As you can see in this vid, i might not have been on ball all the time, but i wasn't for sure Very High. :) Ok i landed a bit hard.... bit still, not enough to damage the LSO's helmet with the shockwave so he can miss interpret my landing!  ;D Am i the only one with a prob. with this version? Is it normal the Glideslope states 3,99 deg  in the debrief?

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: MikeB54 on August 02, 2012, 03:50:23 am
If it makes you feel any better, I'm getting the same thing.  The grades say very high even though the graph shows me low.

Mike
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Doum76 on August 02, 2012, 03:22:07 pm
Are you flying perfect OK 3 approaches? :P

Well, i decided to re-install the 0.6.3.7 versions which gives me proper comments and grades... and as i remade my so wanna-be Case III approach i got my first OK 3 underline with a Case III Approach. :P Nothing so special but glad of it. :) Ok, ok it wasn't that perfect, was a bit hard on the trap and was a little low at the ramp. but still, i haven't smashed into the tower.  ::)

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: neptune07 on August 02, 2012, 11:18:11 pm
I have version 0.6.3.7, and it seems to work fine (windows 7 - 64 bit). My problem is that it only works with Javier's Nimitz, but not my new SDB USS Enterprise. The new Enterprise is totally acceleration compatible (uses the same cables and cat system). What needs to be done so that vLSO will recognise this new carrier?

Bill
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: JamesChams on August 03, 2012, 06:48:52 am
Mr. "fsxnavypilot,"
I am still having issues with the MDL Parent window (i.e. resizing) and the panes NOT resizing together correctly

Well, here's my latest 0.6.4 update http://www.gamefront.com/files/22054052/vLSO_64.zip (http://www.gamefront.com/files/22054052/vLSO_64.zip). Now the window's width and height are set explicitly and should not exceed predefined limits (1187x701). I have no idea how this could happen, but on your system the program counts its window's sizes much larger than they should be, that's why you see those strange pictures. Hope this update will work fine...

Thank you, I will test it shortly and get back to you. :)

*****************************************************
To everyone that's asked this question,
....The new Enterprise is totally acceleration compatible (uses the same cables and cat system). What needs to be done so that vLSO will recognise this new carrier?

I take it that none of you'll have seen this in their manual???  ::)
(Please see attached)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: skimmer on August 03, 2012, 10:12:18 pm
Doum76, I was woundering how you get the approch to ship voice . Such as 5 miles and call the ball . I know they are from ship atc but do I need to purchase VRS F-18 ?    Nice video by the way. :)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Doum76 on August 03, 2012, 11:17:28 pm
Skimmer,

Thanks for the comments, and humm well how can i answer your question.... i give you a hint for the voices..it starts with vLSO and finishes with, the application/add-on mentioned in this thread. ;) You get the voice calls starting when you're around 10,7 miles back of the carrier, starting a Case III Approach. (in this case, no matter what the weather is, i was only able to get it at night and dusk) but the other voices you get them doing normal pattern also (Abeam call, ball call and roger ball). Try it out, it's a brilliant little app helped me out a lot to fix my miss-aligenements ;p

To know with what airplanes it works and carrier, read the vLSO readme/manuel .pdf for more details, but no, you don't necessary need the VRS, it also works with the default Acceleration Hornet.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: skimmer on August 04, 2012, 06:32:08 am
Man I wish I wasnt so darn slow somtimes . :-[ Now I gotta go by your hint to answer my ? I will read some more on this post and if I get the answer I will buy you a cold one! ;D   

vLSO             Hmmmm ::)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Jymp on August 04, 2012, 02:04:22 pm
In trying to figure out the connection issues I've had, just noticed to get vLSO to connect everytime and run perfectly I start FSX and set everything up, aircraft (Sludge Hornet, Dino's T-45 or Tomcat, I don't have the VRS SH) location, time date, start AI Carriers, set up the Nimitz configuration and location, ESC out of FSX, start vLSO, go back into FSX, I will then get the green Case I or III bar at the top of my screen depending on the time of day, then vLSO will work perfectly, at least for me, hope this helps, just passing along info for development.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Doum76 on August 04, 2012, 02:17:07 pm
Man I wish I wasnt so darn slow somtimes . :-[ Now I gotta go by your hint to answer my ? I will read some more on this post and if I get the answer I will buy you a cold one! ;D   

vLSO             Hmmmm ::)

;) You're on the right path i gotta admit that.  :D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Doum76 on August 04, 2012, 02:24:03 pm
In trying to figure out the connection issues I've had, just noticed to get vLSO to connect everytime and run perfectly I start FSX and set everything up, aircraft (Sludge Hornet, Dino's T-45 or Tomcat, I don't have the VRS SH) location, time date, start AI Carriers, set up the Nimitz configuration and location, ESC out of FSX, start vLSO, go back into FSX, I will then get the green Case I or III bar at the top of my screen depending on the time of day, then vLSO will work perfectly, at least for me, hope this helps, just passing along info for development.

That's what i mainly was doing also, do all i had to do, once the carrier is down if using Ai Carrier, then i start vLSO, i mainly fly with window mode on. If i retart the flight, i don't take any chance i close vLSO agian, do all i have to do in all menus, then when ready to launch, take-off, i start vLSO, it somtimes seems to be a problem if, for exemple i get back in a menu like weather, then vLSO seems to loose connection, so as Jymp said, do all your stuff, setp-ups, once you'Re ready to take-off, start LSO. If you don't use window mode, when you wanna head back to desktop to start your vLSO, a trick that some might not know, instead of ALT-Tabing which sometimes freeezes as any many games, simply go on window mode, ALT-Enter, start your vLSO and re ALT-Enter when in FSX and ready to go.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: skimmer on August 05, 2012, 01:26:02 am
Doum76. game over as my ? is answered on first page . Thanks for the fun. Now to dwnld and install. I am also getting the big E. :) :) ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Doum76 on August 05, 2012, 04:53:30 am
Doum76. game over as my ? is answered on first page . Thanks for the fun. Now to dwnld and install. I am also getting the big E. :) :) ;D

Cool, and good choice, you'll have plent of fun with it, if you have any question let me know. :)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: fsafranek on August 05, 2012, 08:54:20 pm
....The new Enterprise is totally acceleration compatible (uses the same cables and cat system). What needs to be done so that vLSO will recognise this new carrier?

I take it that none of you'll have seen this in their manual???  ::)
(Please see attached)

The Audible LSO with the Team SDB Enterprise only "speaks" to you from the point of calling the ball to catching the wire or wave off.  The distances and parameters for the flight path adjustment calls from the LSO are at the top of the "carrier.xml" file placed in your Gauges folder during installation.  At the bottom of that same file are the assigned wav files for the LSO calls.  We didn't make new ones but just used the Texan (no offence) sounding ones from the Acceleration missions.  We didn't feel anyone on the team had the right "radio voice" to make our own.  But doing so is on my short list for any patch.  In the interim if someone feels like coming up with a list of new wav file assignments that could be called from another package it would be great to know and share.  But with the vLSO installed it probably isn't necessary.

---
Frank Safranek
Team SDB
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on August 06, 2012, 08:03:56 pm
FSAFranek...

We didn't make new ones but just used the TEXAN (no offence) sounding ones from the Acceleration missions.

Thats funny, I dont care who you are...

the right "radio voice" to make our own.

right "radio voice"= DJ voice

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on August 10, 2012, 02:15:43 am
Lol was that your voice Sludge. ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: fsafranek on August 10, 2012, 06:48:34 am
Lol was that your voice Sludge. ;D
If it was someone here's voice how about a new set with no reference to an aircraft number? 
These are the English equivalents to the French messages that Sylvain Parouty included in his RFN_Tacan gauge package.

Wire1_msg="Wire number 1!"
Wire2_msg="Wire number 2!"
Wire3_msg="Wire number 3!"
Wire4_msg="Wire number 4!"
TooHigh_msg="Too high!"
TooLow_msg="Too low!"
LineUp_msg="Line up!"  // no left or right call
CallBall_msg="Call the ball!"
WaveOff_msg="Wave Off! Wave Off!"

---
Frank Safranek
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: skimmer on August 19, 2012, 07:47:11 pm
What does this mean= Don't forget to uncomment this parameter ? I have dwnloaded vSLO from the first page of this post on 08/13/12 and Ive read and read but I cant get the manual ball to define(work). I did what instructions said but the problem is most likely the uncomment part. This is how the config file looked like when I dwnloaded it=


[Manual]
ManualBall=0
;ManualBallKey=TOGGLE_WATER_RUDDER

I have even deleted the TOGGLE_WATER_RUDDER part and copyed it from event IDs table and placed it where you see it. I just have a hard time understanding it :)
All else I get. Now the config file is the same as ini file ,right?  ??? I have Windows 7,64 bit and FSX and AI Carriers2.
                      
                                                                                                     Thankyou
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on August 19, 2012, 08:58:34 pm
I am thinking, it must be a typo.....but the square bracket should enclose manual, like so [Manual]

Otherwise, rest of config/ini file looks okay. "Un-commenting" actually means removing ";" before the ManualBallKey=....." command.  Un-commenting will make that command 'active', so you will have to press Shift+W (Toggle Water Rudder Key) to 'call the ball' yourself.

Try starting vLSO AFTER you are already in the sim. For some people this works too.
In my case, I have found, if the hook is down 'before' the break, the vLSO will more often than not..work correctly.

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: skimmer on August 19, 2012, 09:40:41 pm
The ] was included when I dwnlded it ,I must have missed it when I copyed it for this post ( I just put it back.) So I will now remove the ;  start FSX and start vLSO while sim is on.

                                                                                             Thank you Mickey

                                                                                                     
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on August 19, 2012, 09:49:34 pm
The ].......So I will now remove the ;  start FSX and start vLSO while sim is on.....................

No. Please do not do that, just because I said so.

You must do that ONLY if you want to manually call the ball. Un-commenting the Key Command for manual ball call, will also (probably) require you to change the value from '0' to '1' in the previous line of the code.

Personally, I fly with 'auto ball call' and am quite happy with it.

As far as I'm concerned, the software mostly works for me. Sometimes it doesn't, but what the heck. It's still beta and FSXNP continues to refine it.

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: skimmer on August 19, 2012, 09:51:33 pm
Okay Mickey. That worked fine and it will also start when sim is off. ;D ;D ;D.  Thanks for the help and now its on to add the default F-18

Ooops ,dont have to its already on ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on August 20, 2012, 12:42:09 am

As far as I'm concerned, the software mostly works for me. Sometimes it doesn't, but what the heck. It's still beta and FSXNP continues to refine it.


Hi Mickey,

vLSO works for me too most of the time, unless I use it with Track IR. Are you using Track IR by any chance? I am looking for someone on the forum who uses successfully vLSO and Track IR together.
Thanks,

Johan
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on August 20, 2012, 08:12:47 am
I am looking for someone on the forum who uses successfully vLSO and Track IR together.

Your looking stops here Johan. Ever since I got introduced to TrackIR a few years back, I have never flown my sim without it.

And both TIR5 & vLSO work together.

I haven't been careful to take notes, but I will stick my neck out and confirm that vLSO works for me about 95% when in single player with AI boats. I only have trouble in MP sessions (with AI boat or with drivable one).

Hope that helps!

Happy landings,

Mickey
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: robertorizzo on August 22, 2012, 11:19:49 am
Is there any way to have THIS vLSO working with big E besides Javier's and acceleration carriers?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: CoolP on August 24, 2012, 09:53:31 pm
Thanks for your work on this nice program.  :)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: dave76 on September 17, 2012, 08:59:12 pm
hallo everybody, :D :D :D
first of all just want to say hallo and that i really appreciate vlso, since its first release.....
now i have a problem.....i have installed last version of vlso. but i cannot get it working....i have LSO voice while i trap but the program is connected to fsx (green ).
i have a normal installation with VLSO installed in C:/ PROGRAMS/ VLSO.....and it always worked fine with previous installations.
also, i had assigned the manual ball key , but it doesn't work...what can i do to fix it?????? thanks a lot :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Herbie on September 23, 2012, 11:21:53 pm
Hello All!
I will use this Tread to find out "what do I wrong". I'm just fraction of a second before getting a wave-up and flashing red light, but I land on Deck wire #1. See Screenshot. If I go lower, I'm below the deck  ???...BDW, I have No Locus Range entry in my vLSO INI-file. Herb
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on September 24, 2012, 01:26:34 am
Herbie, Could you describe an approach in reference to that screenshot (or a new one) please. In the screenshot (according to the IFLOLs) you are too high and would be waved off for that. I'm not sure if you then continue to land. Anyway a longer description will help. Of course if you can make a movie that would be terrific. Thanks.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Herbie on September 24, 2012, 01:43:17 am
I will try, but at the moment I do have texture tearing. I use Fraps as an external Frame-counter for testing..
How about No Locus Entries? Herb----------------

Hello Spaz!
 I made a movie and Upload it to my Youtube, but it will take 2 Hrs for the download. I will link it in here later on. Herb

[Locus]
Range.1 = 5600, 2500, 1.3, 1.3, -1.6, -1.6
Range.2 = 2500, 2200, 1.3, 1.3, -1.6, -1.6
Range.3 = 2200, 2000, 1.3, 0.8, -1.6, -0.8
Range.4 = 2000, 1600, 0.8, 0.45, -0.8, -0.45
Range.5 = 1600, 1300, 0.45, 0.45, -0.45, -0.45

2200' and beyond, it will wave off concurrent with the Javier waveoff lights. HI, LO
2200' to 1600', it will wave off any excursion greater than 2 balls. HI, LO
1600' and closer, it will waveoff for any excursion greater than 1 ball. (HI), (LO)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on September 24, 2012, 02:53:27 am
I'll be patient for the video. :D I have no idea about 'no locus' whatsit.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Herbie on September 24, 2012, 05:24:16 am


OK, here it is Made a wire #3. Herb
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on September 24, 2012, 09:00:34 am
Herbie, Thanks for going to the trouble to make the movie. I'm guessing (from your PM but worthwhile noting here) that the .AVI made by FRAPS was very large hence long upload time. Youtube will crunch down the file dramatically and reduce the quality equally so you may as well put the .AVI through Windows Movie Maker and upload the quality .WMV result. I've been away from computer so a delayed reply also.

From the video I see you start below the glidepath. Here I have been looking only at the IFLOLS gauge and look at it only during the approach. I'll assume you are looking at the same thing. Mostly you are on Optimum Angle of Attack which is good.

Also I do not have sound on this computer so I can easily ignore whatever is said by LSO.  ;D  You ignore wave off signal and continue which is not good but for FSX and the demonstration then so be it.

The approach is flat meaning you start low then because there is minimal descent rate you gradually fly up through the glideslope to end up HIGH when the wave off is given. You keep flying the approach by I guess reducing power - I can see the nose drop also - so that eventually by 'deck spotting' I will guess you catch a wire - coming down quickly to do so.

Best to start from a circuit if possible so that your actual approach start is close to ideal and from then on only small corrections needed to stay on glideslope etc. If you want to continue to practice long straight in approaches then you need to get on glideslope very quickly and stay there.

The meatball in the IFLOLS gauge in your approach shows the meatball coming out of the depths to go out of the top almost (start low to go high through not enough descent rate when the meatball close to the middle). Carrier pilots cannot 'deck spot' (look at the deck to judge how to land). They can only use the IFLOLS and stay on the parameters of 'meatball (in the middle) - lineup (correct) and airspeed (optimum angle of attack). Nothing else will do.

Perhaps practicing FCLP circuits at dusk or late afternoon will help you make better carrier circuits? You can set up at start point (start a flight) at some distance from the carrier close to or on glideslope for a straight in approach but better to master the day carrier circuit via FCLP dusk circuit at least (low light to see lights better but not totally black as in an actual FCLP night circuit [Mission 5]). The idea behind FCLP at night is to reduce any distractions and pilot tendency to 'deck spot'. All the pilot can do is follow the meatball. Yes it is difficult but so is carrier landing if not practiced a lot via FCLP and at the carrier.

I would say that in FSX if one can make a good approach in FCLP Mission 5 - you can do anything.  ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on September 24, 2012, 07:39:53 pm
Hey Herbie, maybe you are having this realworld problem "ACLS Is Dropping Me Off Low!!!"  ::)

http://www.hrana.org/documents/PaddlesMonthlySeptember2012.pdf
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: WC_Tweety on September 27, 2012, 07:51:46 pm
I would like to give this vLSO a try, but all the links I find in here for it (from gamefront.com) are dead; the file no longer exists.  Would someone please post a working link to the current version complete with documentation?  Thanks
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on September 27, 2012, 08:48:49 pm
First entry on this thread [top of first page] (first part only repeated here) has the latest downloadable vLSO:

"The Beta 0.6.3.7 is here http://www.gamefront.com/files/21688080/vLSO.zip

To install the program unzip this archive (keeping its internal folder structure) to a temp folder and read the manual...."
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on September 28, 2012, 08:20:41 pm
Serge...

Sorry that I've been "offline" on the vLSO testing as of late, but just had some really good developments with the implementation of JIMIs (and Roy Holmes/FSDeveloper.com) PA mode auto-trim XML. In short, I just got my head fully wrapped around it and now it will damn near NOT lose 8.1 AoA, even during 30deg AoB turns the pattern. The big stickler is getting it there without alot of "notching" when you get into PA mode, but once you do, it locks in. This also has big implications as far as holding 1.0 G in level flight and most of JIMIs other XMLs as well.

All that being said, I will definately ramp up my vLSO testing alongside Pitch AutoTrim.XML testing to see how the two will work hand-in-hand.

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SandPro on October 25, 2012, 02:28:48 pm
In case we missed Robertorizzo's post in September.... would like to see if it is possible to add the new CV65 Enterprise to the vLSO carrier list... looks like it may have similar specs.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on November 13, 2012, 03:28:04 pm
Serge, long time brother. Any updates for the vLSO (FCLP, Tanker, etc)?  :'(

-GOONIE
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 14, 2012, 05:34:26 am
Yeah, long long time...  :) Currently I'm working on FCLP support, but not sure about dates, sorry.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on November 14, 2012, 03:58:16 pm
Thanks for the update Serge, was worried you got snatched up by some commercial venture.  ;)

Looking forward to any updates or new releases of the vLSO, as always great work!

-GOONIE
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: dave76 on November 16, 2012, 10:06:12 pm
guys any idea why vlso icon on desktop is green and it doesn't work ???? sim connect and flight simulator x on the screen are green, but seems it doesn't pick up the aircraft when i fly carrier pattern, i hear no vlso also in nugg or fleet mode with no zip lip and it does not appear any grade on the board...thanks

i have version 0.6.3.7. beta and vrs tacpack installed
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 17, 2012, 12:04:19 pm
Dave,
Basically, there are two reasons - either you forgot to lower landing gear or your aircrafts is uknown to the program.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: dave76 on November 17, 2012, 04:07:01 pm
Dave,
Basically, there are two reasons - either you forgot to lower landing gear or your aircrafts is uknown to the program.


ehm, gear was down and i fly vrs superbug......how can i fix it????? thanks man :) :) :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: tgycgijoes on November 18, 2012, 03:03:21 am
I have been trying to download the latest version to have all "the bells and whistles" you have added since version one.  I was able to download the first version from gamestop using the link on page one but the last link to gamestop takes you to a new gamestop and can't find the file.  Any help please?  Also the cloud file wants money from Paypal even for the free trial.  Mediafire is free and a lot more friendly.  Can you upload the latest version to mediafire please? BTW can you configure a Hawkeye and an A6?

Richard E2A Hawkeye VAW124 CVW9
CVA-66
1967-1970
NAS Glenview
1971-1992
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on November 18, 2012, 05:25:43 am
The first page of this long thread is updated with the latest vLSO.zip file and whatever has been updated. Go to page 1 top of page to find a link to this file:

"0.6.3.7b
•New version numbering scheme
•Some little improvements"

Best to go to first page to read all the information there about incompatibilities and whatnot:

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=4915.0

http://www.gamefront.com/files/21688080/vLSO.zip  (16Mb) Just tested and it works OK for me.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: syn on December 01, 2012, 09:06:43 pm
The download link for the last build is not working.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on December 02, 2012, 12:40:02 am
IF the URL for download above:

vLSO Beta 0.6.3.7 is here http://www.gamefront.com/files/21688080/vLSO.zip

is used then you can download it and I have just done so again just now - today.

File Name:vLSO.zip
File Size:15.73 MB
Date Added:05-12-2012
Download Last 2 Week:88

vLSO VERSION 6.3.7 beta

Try an alternate browser or download method or switch off something that is preventing your download?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: syn on December 05, 2012, 12:46:01 pm
Found the answer. Gamefront recently banned literally half of the world (see http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=573716)... Any chance for an alternative download site?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on December 05, 2012, 03:50:52 pm
Hi Serge,
Lately I have been having some problems with vLSO and FSX. The issue happens after I manually call the ball, and now with the auto ball call, FSX turns into a slide show. Basically goes from 30 fps to 5 fps and I have to close FSX. When I close FSX, I see that vLSO GUI is completely greyed out (grey square) with a warning saying vLSO had to close due to error. 

This doesn't happen every flight, but it is happening more an more. maybe 50% of the time. Any thoughts? Can I send you anything to investigate?

Thanks

GOONIE
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on December 06, 2012, 03:38:13 am
Found the answer. Gamefront recently banned literally half of the world (see http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=573716)... Any chance for an alternative download site?
I have moved my file from gamefront to other locations. See the first message on this topic.
From now on gamefront is in my blacklist  >:(
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on December 06, 2012, 04:42:25 am
Lately I have been having some problems with vLSO and FSX. The issue happens after I manually call the ball, and now with the auto ball call, FSX turns into a slide show. Basically goes from 30 fps to 5 fps and I have to close FSX. When I close FSX, I see that vLSO GUI is completely greyed out (grey square) with a warning saying vLSO had to close due to error. 

This doesn't happen every flight, but it is happening more an more. maybe 50% of the time. Any thoughts? Can I send you anything to investigate?
Brennan, that puzzles me a lot... I guess this FSX slideshow could probably be caused by some SimConnect inconsistencies. For example, when you close FSX, vLSO still waits for SimConnect notifications, but receives nothing from nowhere and thus 'hangs' (its main window doesn't repaint - gray square - because the program stuck, still waiting for responce from already dead SimConnect). I'd suggest to reinstall FSX...
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: dave76 on December 07, 2012, 12:31:30 am
hallo navy pilot, i still cannot get my vlso working and when i launch it i get a window range check error message...i still have 6 3 7 beta.....pls what can i do????   i really miss it while trap!!! thanks again :)


error    access violation at address001074850 in module simconnect.dll.write of address 00000010





Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on December 13, 2012, 04:43:39 pm
Serge,
To add additional sound files to the vLSO (add more variety), can I make new .wav file that is sequentially higher than the last wav file in the sound folder (e.g. ballcall8.wav)? Or do I need to replace one of the current wav files using current naming scheme?

Thanks,
GOONIE
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on December 14, 2012, 03:14:48 am
Yes, you can add your own files, following the naming scheme, or replace an existing one. The more files with similar names (e.g. BallCall*.wav) the more variety in calls. You are not obliged to number your files sequentially (see the sound folder - many sample files do not have 'number ones'), so both BallCall8.wav and BallCall18.wav will do  :)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Herbie on December 14, 2012, 06:27:20 am
Serge,
To add additional sound files to the vLSO (add more variety), can I make new .wav file that is sequentially higher than the last wav file in the sound folder (e.g. ballcall8.wav)? Or do I need to replace one of the current wav files using current naming scheme?

Thanks,
GOONIE
What happen to your Slide show? Adding more sound help it? Herb

Edit: Nice to hear what fixed the problem. Herb
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on December 15, 2012, 02:28:03 am
Thanks, Serge. I'll give it a try.

Herbie, yes I was tweaking some sound files and after I reinstalled the vLSO sounds I haven't had any issues or slide show.

GOONIE
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on December 15, 2012, 10:13:29 am
Brennan,
what kind of wav files are your tweaked sounds? SDK notes that Flight Simulator can load most PCM .wav formats, as well as compressed formats. When a compressed format is used, Flight Simulator uses Audio Compression Manager (ACM), an audio compression module included in Windows to load the file. If you include compressed files, make sure that they are in a format supported (by default) by Windows such as ADPCM.

FYI. My vLSO sound samples are all PCM 16 bit wave files, both mono and stereo, sample rate 11-22-44 KHz.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on December 15, 2012, 04:11:51 pm
Thanks, Serge

I wasn't doing anything too crazy, just adding some sound files and editing some of your originals. I remembered the old pilot saying, when something goes wrong, undo the last thing you changed. Seems to have worked.

One thing I am still having issues with is the Bolter call, sometimes I Bolter, but get no call from vLSO, other times it works, probably 50% of the time it works. Anyway to tighten up the tolerances? vLSO realizes you didn't catch a wire, leaves wire value blank in the score sheet, could that be an indication to vLSO to make the Bolter audio call in FSX if the hook is down? Basically if hook is down, and if no wire recorded by vLSO, and if weight on wheels, then Bolter call is made?

Goonie
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: taff pilot on December 26, 2012, 09:42:51 pm
hello
I had a few problems with this , I followed the instructions to the letter and useing the aproved ships and aircraft , firstly adding the wording to auto load with FSX in EXE.xml caused my AI ships control/ select in fsx to disapear , when i removed this , it returned top normal , i used the shortcut sugestion which worked , the program worked as it should for one session , however when I restarted it later ,it refused to work no matter what I tried ??, i again tried to place the wording in the EXE.xml , but no difference and agin the drop down menu for AI ships dissapeard , however this time upon removing it , the AI ships menu has not returned !!!.
any suggestions
fsx acceleration , windows 7 64bit
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: theoklahomaaviator on December 29, 2012, 02:22:38 am
06.3.7 refuses to work for me either on FSX Accell under Win7 64-bit.  I've tried everything I could think of to no avail.  Removing any second party addons, run as admin, shows connected to SimConnect and FSX in the GUI, but nothing in the sim indicates vLSO is recognizing my position around the boat. No green messages in screen, no callouts, no Greenie Board results... nothing.  Any ideas? I'd really like to get my LSO back from leave :)
vr,
Adam
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: jeff64 on January 01, 2013, 05:32:57 pm
Hello Everybody.

Installed FSX + TacPack + vLSO on my computer and I got the following problem.

First : The vLSO window is very small.
Second : I appear a little high on the graph, even if I am well below the glideslope (see the comms).

Using Windows7 64bit.

Any idea ?

Thank you for your ideas.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Orion on January 01, 2013, 07:25:15 pm
High DPI strikes again?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Kenan on January 02, 2013, 02:29:12 pm
06.3.7 refuses to work for me either on FSX Accell under Win7 64-bit.  I've tried everything I could think of to no avail.  Removing any second party addons, run as admin, shows connected to SimConnect and FSX in the GUI, but nothing in the sim indicates vLSO is recognizing my position around the boat. No green messages in screen, no callouts, no Greenie Board results... nothing.  Any ideas? I'd really like to get my LSO back from leave :)
vr,
Adam

I registered here for I have the exact same problem as the poster above. My vLSO is completely dead in FSX. Would apreaciate if there's some kinda of a solution for this. Using VRS + TacPack.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: taff pilot on January 03, 2013, 05:04:56 pm
the support is very poor , few people here would like some help , but not even a "hang on we'll get to you " very disapointing
 :-\
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: sonofabeech on January 03, 2013, 05:26:34 pm
Hi Taff pilot

Serge is a good guy and always goes out of his way to help people ... due to the fact that it is his program
I am guessing that only he would be able to assist you. Unfortunately it is still vacation time for some people
at this time of the year and he is probably away or spending some time with his family. Please remember that this is
a free program and support service that he is providing. Im sure he will get to you as soon as he can. I had to speak up
on his behalf cos he has helped me a couple of times before and I have nothing but respect for the guy.

Peace out

"Sonofa"
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: virtuali on January 03, 2013, 05:33:41 pm
the support is very poor , few people here would like some help , but not even a "hang on we'll get to you " very disapointing  :-\

Please remind that the F/A-18 area of this forum is NOT something that is supposed to be supported by FSDT, other than the fact that we pay for the web space and maintenance, and allowing free access to anyone.

The original reason for having this board here, was to better explain how to use the F/A-18 included in the Acceleration pack, which was made by us in 2007 and included by Microsoft in their product. Since the airplane was considerably more complex than the usual "default" MS airplane, and the documentation was very sparse, we opened this forum as a way to help people knowing how to use it.

Along the years, the forum has evolved to be a meeting place of users and developers of modifications and additions to the F/A-18, and this thread is an example of that: another forum user has graciously decided to offer an addon for FREE to the community, and discuss and support it using this board, which is convenient, since many users of the default F/A-18 included in the Acceleration pack are accustomed to gather here.

This just to clear up the fact that for THIS specific area of the forum, you shouldn't expect to be supported directly by FSDT and the level (or the eventual lack of it) is not an indication of the support level of the rest of the forum, which deals in the FSDT commercial offerings.

So, basically, threat this forum sub-section, as a "freeware island" inside a commercial developer site, but don't expect much support from us, other than keep the forum running.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: taff pilot on January 03, 2013, 07:29:34 pm
message recived and understood , and I aleays respect people in the fs comunity who give up there time and effort to help others
peace all
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on January 04, 2013, 08:14:22 pm
Any chance for vLSO to support the F35C by Dino FSXNAVYPILOT?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 05, 2013, 01:55:26 pm
...auto load with FSX in EXE.xml caused my AI ships control/ select in fsx to disapear...

fsx acceleration , windows 7 64bit

Installed FSX + TacPack + vLSO on my computer and I got the following problem.

Second : I appear a little high on the graph, even if I am well below the glideslope (see the comms).

Using Windows7 64bit.

My vLSO is completely dead in FSX. Would apreaciate if there's some kinda of a solution for this. Using VRS + TacPack.

Guys, I have neither Win7 nor TacPack installed on my computer so I can't reproduce your situation and try to sort things out. My only suggestion would be try to run vLSO w/o TacPack active?
Anyway, I've found a bug in my code, which reported by jeff64. A new corrected beta 0.6.4 is here (http://www.datafilehost.com/download-f1c5201a.html) (just an .exe file to replace).

Any chance for vLSO to support the F35C by Dino FSXNAVYPILOT?

Yes, I will add the F35C support.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: jeff64 on January 05, 2013, 06:51:19 pm
hello and thank you for your support.

Just reinstalled an older version (0.3b) and it works fine.

I'll try your suggestion and keep you posted.

thank you
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on January 05, 2013, 08:07:26 pm
'fsxnp' thanks for update and support for F-35C however your URL above does not work for me using IE 10 in Win 8 64bits with an Error report from Apache:

HTTP Status 500 -
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
type Exception report
message
description The server encountered an internal error () that prevented it from fulfilling this request.
exception
java.lang.NullPointerException
note The full stack trace of the root cause is available in the Apache Tomcat/6.0.32 logs.
____________________________

Have used FireFox 17.0.1 in Win 8 64bits now with the same URL and it worketh good! :D I dunno. Thanks again.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: theoklahomaaviator on January 06, 2013, 06:20:06 am
...auto load with FSX in EXE.xml caused my AI ships control/ select in fsx to disapear...

fsx acceleration , windows 7 64bit

Installed FSX + TacPack + vLSO on my computer and I got the following problem.

Second : I appear a little high on the graph, even if I am well below the glideslope (see the comms).

Using Windows7 64bit.

My vLSO is completely dead in FSX. Would apreaciate if there's some kinda of a solution for this. Using VRS + TacPack.

Guys, I have neither Win7 nor TacPack installed on my computer so I can't reproduce your situation and try to sort things out. My only suggestion would be try to run vLSO w/o TacPack active?
Anyway, I've found a bug in my code, which reported by jeff64. A new corrected beta 0.6.4 is here http://www.4shared.com/zip/KPUOu_6e/vLSO_0640.html (http://www.4shared.com/zip/KPUOu_6e/vLSO_0640.html) (just an .exe file to replace).

Any chance for vLSO to support the F35C by Dino FSXNAVYPILOT?

Yes, I will add the F35C support.

I just wanted to report that v 0.2b that I had thankfully saved back still works perfectly, but I can't get even your latest 0.640 to do anything other than show green connected to FSX and SimConnect in the GUI.  Remember still running Win7 64-Bit with TACPAC spawned carriers and the Rhino here.  Works fine as I said with 0.2b.  So is there anything that you can think of that has changed from 0.2 to 0.640 that would cause it to stop working?  Seems that vLSO isn't recognizing my approach to the carrier.  I'm spawning it 10nm ahead of me at 25knts on my current heading near Oceana NAS.  All gear and hook down and locked by 5nm.  Let me know if there is anything I can try.  Feel free to PM me if necessary and I'll work with you any way I can.  Thank you!
Vr,
Adam
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: jeff64 on January 06, 2013, 10:54:29 am
Hello,

Tried the 0.6.4b yesterday. Worked perfectly.

But, when putting back the 0.6.3.7b, it worked too (still the graph problem, but speaking only of FSX in game sequence).

So all the evening, I played, but, without restarting FSX.

This morning, I tried to relaunch FSX and vLSO, and no way to get it working.
I deleted completely vLSO, reinstalled (unzipped), etc, and no way to get labels (CASE 1 in effect, etc.), audio, debrief, etc.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on January 06, 2013, 03:22:57 pm
...auto load with FSX in EXE.xml caused my AI ships control/ select in fsx to disapear...

fsx acceleration , windows 7 64bit

Installed FSX + TacPack + vLSO on my computer and I got the following problem.

Second : I appear a little high on the graph, even if I am well below the glideslope (see the comms).

Using Windows7 64bit.

My vLSO is completely dead in FSX. Would apreaciate if there's some kinda of a solution for this. Using VRS + TacPack.

Guys, I have neither Win7 nor TacPack installed on my computer so I can't reproduce your situation and try to sort things out. My only suggestion would be try to run vLSO w/o TacPack active?
Anyway, I've found a bug in my code, which reported by jeff64. A new corrected beta 0.6.4 is here http://www.4shared.com/zip/KPUOu_6e/vLSO_0640.html (http://www.4shared.com/zip/KPUOu_6e/vLSO_0640.html) (just an .exe file to replace).

Any chance for vLSO to support the F35C by Dino FSXNAVYPILOT?

Yes, I will add the F35C support.

I just wanted to report that v 0.2b that I had thankfully saved back still works perfectly, but I can't get even your latest 0.640 to do anything other than show green connected to FSX and SimConnect in the GUI.  Remember still running Win7 64-Bit with TACPAC spawned carriers and the Rhino here.  Works fine as I said with 0.2b.  So is there anything that you can think of that has changed from 0.2 to 0.640 that would cause it to stop working?  Seems that vLSO isn't recognizing my approach to the carrier.  I'm spawning it 10nm ahead of me at 25knts on my current heading near Oceana NAS.  All gear and hook down and locked by 5nm.  Let me know if there is anything I can try.  Feel free to PM me if necessary and I'll work with you any way I can.  Thank you!
Vr,
Adam

Hey Adam, try spawning a carrier using AIcarriers, and not via the tacpack GUI. Might work
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: ctec1 on January 06, 2013, 03:27:25 pm
Same problem here. Its hit and miss, mostly miss. Usually when it works I get the CASE callout and then the distance to carrier callouts for .ie 7 miles...6 miles...and so on. I'll get to the boat and get the "paddles contact" then thats all she wrote. I'll land but get no info in the log. Take off and repeat same deal. One time I got an "abeam callout". I thought I was on to something but after several more attempts cant even get the "abeam callout".

Any chance of getting a link up for that 0.2b version so I can try that and see if that still works.

THX,

Mark

PS, Just saw the previous post and I'm spawning carriers with AICarriers and no TacPac.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: theoklahomaaviator on January 06, 2013, 04:14:56 pm
GOONIE, 
I've tried with aicarriers and TacPack disabled and got the same results.  I really think its something in the GUI, but without knowing what has changed from 0.2b to now I can't be sure.
Vr,
Adam
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 07, 2013, 12:52:13 pm
Guys,
When testing vLSO, I usually fly some missions, I have created specifically for vLSO testing. Nothing special - an Acceleration or Javier's carrier moves somewhere in the ocean with my trusty Hornet warming up its engines near Cat4.

Last night I did some tests with AICarriers and found no errors. Both Acceleration and Javier carriers spawned where specified, the program recognized them well and then commented and graded my landing attempts.

And, as previously. my system is WinXP 64. I think I'll need to switch to Win7 64...   ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: texxasal on January 07, 2013, 01:29:03 pm
Guys,
When testing vLSO, I usually fly some missions, I have created specifically for vLSO testing. Nothing special - an Acceleration or Javier's carrier moves somewhere in the ocean with my trusty Hornet warming up its engines near Cat4.

Last night I did some tests with AICarriers and found no errors. Both Acceleration and Javier carriers spawned where specified, the program recognized them well and then commented and graded my landing attempts.

And, as previously. my system is WinXP 64. I think I'll need to switch to Win7 64...   ;D

Sir,
First off, thanks for a great product, which has dramatically enhanced our enjoyment of FSX.

My question is in regards to your above statement, and the problems being reported by many folks in the communities with which I participate:

Do you perform any testing outside of your "Missions"?

My reason for posing the question is that we have noted substantial differences in the processing between "Mission" and non-mission SP & MP flight sessions. As a very vivid example, the TacPack by VRS does not support MP missions at all, and most of the users of TacPack/VRS fly in online MP sessions

Just looking for something we are missing, as I have personally not encountered any problem with basic functionality since the earliest Beta release of both vLSO and TacPack.

Thanks again.

Al Rosenberg
San Antonio, Texas
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on January 07, 2013, 02:17:09 pm
Serge,
You forgot to mention your vLSO blog! I saw it in your banner, nice  8)

GOONIE
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 07, 2013, 04:00:15 pm
Do you perform any testing outside of your "Missions"?

Al,
Many, many thanks for your 'mission' head-up!
First, I've tried vLSO with stock carrier missions - no joy! Not to be too technical - unhandled weather requests caused the problem.  ::) These requests are needed to determine CASE condition.

Until now I believed that FSX always answers weather requests. I was wrong! As it appeared, for some missions FSX answers, for some doesn't... And when it doesn't, some internal variables remain not set, that's why vLSO couldn't find a carrier.

Anyways, this current 0.6.4.1 beta (http://www.datafilehost.com/download-865f2a24.html) is free of this nasty bug, so now you can continue enjoying FSX carops!  8)
And I'll continue to study FSX SDK...  ;D

You forgot to mention your vLSO blog!

Oh yes, I'm forgetful sometimes...
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: jeff64 on January 07, 2013, 07:48:48 pm
hello

do we need to replace the vLSO.exe from 0.6.3.7, or this .exe is a standalone ?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: jeff64 on January 07, 2013, 11:19:53 pm
My problem seems to be resolved. Installed the new 0.6.4.1 (installed over 0.6.3.7), tried several times with different reboots, seems to work.

Thank you very much for your work.

One little thing : I don't have anymore the first label indicating CASE 1, BRC blabla...
But in flight, i have all the labels (paddle contact, call the ball, 205 xx, roger ball, etc.)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: ctec1 on January 08, 2013, 12:26:26 am
Working as well on my end also with a slight catch.

I made the changes to 0.6.4.1 and tried my usual flight which is kinda strange but I'll give you the details. Since KCLE is home, I like to just takeoff from Hopkins International and head N. for a few miles and then drop Javiers Nimitz (AICarriers2) into Lake Erie, a few miles off shore. This is the scenario that I was trying to get to work all along with vLSO. Well after installing 0.6.4.1 I still had the same issues, sometimes it works and the next time cant get it to work at all. Most of the time it doesnt want to work period.

I was ready to give up on it and decided lets move the carrier somewhere else. So went to Pensacola NAS and tried the same procedure there. And it works!!. Did quite a few tests, shutdown reboot the whole nine yards and it still works. But I see the same thing as Jeff64, the CASE message isnt showing at the start.
Other than that I can deal with it. ;D

Kinda lost as to why it works out of KNPA but not KCLE. I do have Aerosoft Cleveland installed if that matters. Maybe the carrier has to be in an ocean versus a pond in someones backyard.  Anyways no big deal there, I'll be more than happy to do my traps out of Pensacola.

Thx so much for the work youre doing with vLSO. It rocks!!!

THX Again,

Mark
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: theoklahomaaviator on January 08, 2013, 01:27:27 am
After a long hiatus of no vLSO, 0.6.4.1 is now working for me.  I'll keep you posted if anything changes.  Thank you very very much!  FANTASTIC piece of software!
Vr,
Adam
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 08, 2013, 06:44:15 am
One little thing : I don't have anymore the first label indicating CASE 1, BRC blabla...
But in flight, i have all the labels (paddle contact, call the ball, 205 xx, roger ball, etc.)

As I mentioned before, no CASE info means that vLSO's weather request remained unanswered by FSX. Why is that I have no idea... But we will find a solution to this problem, be sure  ;)

Thanks to all for their patience!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Kenan on January 09, 2013, 04:03:48 am
After extensive testing I realized vLSO gives out "Wave Off" in situation when it really shouldn't ie. I make a steady approach (on the glideslope) and also inside the energy carret specs..I slide down the runway and at the very moment when I'm about to have a touchdown, due to the velocity vector going UNDER the glideslope, vLSO immediatelly calls out "Wave Off" and in the logbook, it grades me a CutPass..

I think this is wrong. I saw some RL Youtube videos and the Flight Path Marker always goes under the glideslope on the very topuchdown (which is to be expected afterall).

However, the vLSO is very sensitive to this situation and even if it was a schoolbook landing if prior touchdown FPM goes under the glideslope (in the situation pilot can't wave off anymore), it still calls out a WO..

Has anyone noticed this as well?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on January 09, 2013, 04:33:08 am
I guess 'fsxnp' will say more - this is one note I have about the vLSO: "FSX vLSO grades the approach on FLOLS (not ‘ILS needles’)". HTH.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 09, 2013, 07:37:24 am
Sure I will  ;)

Let me show this (stolen from VRS):
(http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/4813/carrierbasics.jpg)

As you can see, the ILS beam source is located aft of the center of the model, whereas the Optical Landing System's (FLOLS) focal point is located afore. This means that the glideslope, represented by the HUD ILS needles, lies below the optical glideslope. This also means that the closer you get to the ramp, the larger deviation from the optimum GS you have. That's why vLSO way you off when you're about to land, still flying needles. After you have called the ball, fly the ball, not ILS.  :)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on January 09, 2013, 07:48:28 am
Serge,

I was hoping to add the Captain Sim Delta Hornet to the custom aircraft definitions.  I want to use the same parameters that are used for the Sludge Hornet, but noticed that they must be hard coded into the program since they aren't in the vLSO config file.  Any chance you could post those values, or point me to where they might be found?  I quickly searched this thread but didn't see anything.

Thanks!

Pyro
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 09, 2013, 07:55:37 am
No problem, here's the F18A Hornet specs:

  ATC_model := 'F18';
  Type := 'Hornet';
  Name := 'F/A-18A Hornet';
  AbeamClose := 1.25;
  AbeamWide := 1.50;
  Fast := 6.9;
  Slow := 9.3;

Tell me what's the ATC_model of the Delta Hornet and I'll add it to the program
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on January 09, 2013, 07:58:16 am
No problem, here's the F18A Hornet specs:

  ATC_model := 'F18';
  Type := 'Hornet';
  Name := 'F/A-18A Hornet';
  AbeamClose := 1.25;
  AbeamWide := 1.50;
  Fast := 6.9;
  Slow := 9.3;


Thanks!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on January 09, 2013, 08:09:42 am
Serge,

Another question.  If two aircraft have the same ATC_Model, vLSO should work for both of them, correct?  I.e. the Sludge Hornet model is F18 and the CS F-18D model is F18, so it would read those as one and the same aircraft in the logbook?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 09, 2013, 09:07:40 am
Good question  :)
If two aircraft have the same ATC_Model, vLSO will load both of them. But the last one will be set as current (and logged in the logbook).

This allows you to override the default settings if needed
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on January 09, 2013, 08:25:43 pm
Relevant to the 'Kenan' question about 'vLSO waveoff using needles' on previous page....

The complete article about NOT using the 'needles' as a substitute meatball is here:
Night carrier landings with ENBSeries/Shade
http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=5024.0

Otherwise relevant excerpt below:

Naval Aviation News Winter 2011 ‘The Backup Meatball’ NOT!

http://nanarchive.omnitecinc.com/20102012.aspx

“...caused the Hornet to strike the flight deck rounddown at the point where the tailhook is attached to the aircraft.... The pilot ejected and landed on the flight deck, sustaining major injuries; the aircraft was lost.... ...the pilot stated that his carrier landing technique was to use his Automated Carrier Landing System (ACLS) needles as his primary reference & use the Fresnel Lens Optical Landing System, or meatball, as a backup for glide slope information.

Grampaw Pettibone says: “…And our intrepid aviator? Well, Ol’ Gramps knows that every pilot has his way to do stuff, but using the ACLS needles in close instead of flying the ball is about as dumb as skinny dippin’ with snapping turtles. Gouge is great, but it’s no substitute for knowing the right way to do things and stickin’ to what’s worked for a long, long time. Gramps knows that none of this fella’s LSOs taught him that ACLS technique—he should have stuck with what he’d learned."....”
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Victory103 on January 11, 2013, 06:56:22 am
Got a chance to do some Case 3 stuff with the latest version and like that the audio was added from what seems like a popular Utube audio link, any thoughts to add the rest of that audio for background chatter during the approach? Case 3 recoveries as you can hear in the full version are pretty busy on the radios and would add to the immersion factor. Of course if you are doing the CV-1 to an empty Nimitz model like I was, I guess it doesn't matter.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 11, 2013, 04:54:18 pm
Some WIP screenshots to tease people...  ;D
This beta 0.6.5.0 will allow you organic tanking. Easy to arrange, but tough to fly  :o Really challenging task...
Here I am hanging behind the S3 tanker:

(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/3029/tanking1.jpg)
(http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/8898/tanking2.jpg)
(http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/4438/tanking3.jpg)

My hands still shaking... Oh, boy  ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Victory103 on January 11, 2013, 07:20:16 pm
Nice shots, would be good if we can get the hose deployed, I know it's tied to the model file and not the animations, so FSR will not use it.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on January 12, 2013, 08:28:58 am
That looks awesome.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on January 12, 2013, 08:40:45 am
I'm not sure if this is even possible, but would there be a way to get the trap gauge info (touchdown RoD, AoA, airspeed) into the debrief in a future release?  Obviously not overly important but it would be nice to see it again after the fact.

Pyro
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 12, 2013, 09:13:39 am
I'm not sure if this is even possible, but would there be a way to get the trap gauge info (touchdown RoD, AoA, airspeed) into the debrief in a future release?  

I will do some feasibility studies  ;)

PS. The 0.6.5.0 beta is ready to test. See the first message or visit my blog for d/l links.
I highly recommend to use as a tanker a freeware FSX S-3B (http://fsdownload.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1347). It flies very smooth patterns.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on January 12, 2013, 04:42:57 pm
Great new feature fsxnvp, thank you. I see on your blog the air tanker is following a circular path above the AC. Is this path moving as the AC is sailing as well?

Johan
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 12, 2013, 05:55:45 pm
Johan,
The default path is actually a racetrack oval 9 nm long, so the tanker banks only when it turns upwind and downwind. Two straight legs take some 2 minutes to go. The path is currently not moving - I just thought that a couple of full circles would be enough to tank. Two circles will take less than 15 minutes and at the speed of, say, 25 knots the boat will advance some 5-6 nm, or just a half of the pattern's lengh.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Tregarth on January 13, 2013, 09:54:43 pm
Dear FSXNP,

A (long) while ago you said you would produce a version of vLSO which would be compatible with Field Carrier Landing Practice (El Centro).  In all of the updates you have released is one of them compatible with the FCLP?  If so which one, please?

I enjoy using FCLP and would be grateful if I can add vLSO to it.

Thank you,

Tregarth.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on January 13, 2013, 11:57:59 pm
'fsxnp' Yes please. I second 'Tregarth'. Great idea to have vLSO with your FCLP Missions when you are ready. Thanks.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 14, 2013, 03:12:49 am
Yes, the next release will support FCLP. My Coupeville FCLP scenery and missions will be modified a bit to be compatible with the program. So this gonna be a Vol.3 pack, I guess  :) As for El Centro scenery and its missions pack, I don't plan to change anything yet...
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: skimmer on January 14, 2013, 06:33:14 am
Thank you,thank you,and thank you fsxnavypilot.I plan to delete the one folder vLSO and reinstall this new one.Gotta say downloading this was a lot eaiser to. :)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on January 14, 2013, 06:35:06 am
Sounds good. If El Centro Missions 1 & 2 are for beginners during the day - they won't be distracted by LSO calls.  ;D

Mission 5 at Coupeville will be something else with vLSO.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: jeff64 on January 14, 2013, 10:24:57 pm
Hello FSXNP

Installed you 0650 today, and for now, I have the Case label on every start.

But (always a but), the Expected Final Bearing is ALWAYS to Zero (whichever the carrier heading is, or the wind direction).

I use Tacpack so maybe it comes from here.

It does not bother me, but just want to give you this info.

Thank you very much for your great work ;)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on January 15, 2013, 02:28:53 am
Johan,
The default path is actually a racetrack oval 9 nm long, so the tanker banks only when it turns upwind and downwind. Two straight legs take some 2 minutes to go. The path is currently not moving - I just thought that a couple of full circles would be enough to tank. Two circles will take less than 15 minutes and at the speed of, say, 25 knots the boat will advance some 5-6 nm, or just a half of the pattern's lengh.

Serge,

It works perfectly for me, great addition, the tanker even shows as an AI... It would be nice if you could regroup the tanker function on your main board (via a click on, click off) so that you don't need to call on the add-on menu...but it's a small detail.
Thank you,

Johan

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 15, 2013, 03:58:09 am
It would be nice if you could regroup the tanker function on your main board (via a click on, click off) so that you don't need to call on the add-on menu...

Oh, really? I thought it would be more convenient to call the tanker via FSX add-on menu rather than pushing buttons on the vLSO main window.  :) People flying in full screen modes would have to switch to vLSO window first, then click the tanker button and then switch back to FSX... That's why I placed this option in the FSX add-on menu. Besides, I plan to add to this menu some other options like FCLP, quals etc.  8)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on January 15, 2013, 04:20:36 am
Yes you are right, it all depends on the configurations people have. I have a dedicated screen for your board, so it is easy for me to click anywhere on it as I am flying...

Johan
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: jeff64 on January 15, 2013, 10:34:07 am
Besides, I plan to add to this menu some other options like FCLP, quals etc.  8)

That's great news;)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Victory103 on January 15, 2013, 07:14:11 pm
Anyone figured out a way to get the Iris S-3 buddy store to stay deployed while flying as AI?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 16, 2013, 05:52:32 am
Read this discussion (http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=2816.msg45236#msg45236). That Ctrl-W (Toggle Water Rudder) command can be sent to the S-3B, flying as AI, via SimConnect only. A quick programming test proved feasible and my AI Viking deployed/retracted the drogue at my will. However only 'viking' models has the drogue, others like 'shadow', 'viking_clean', 'viking_harp' and 'viking_ferry' don't, because they don't have a refuel pod on the left wing station.

So, technically it's possible to control the Viking's drogue even in AI mode.  :)
For example, if you're approaching closer than, say, 50 ft the Viking tanker will deploy its drogue atomatically. Something like that...
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on January 17, 2013, 05:46:58 am
Quick question.  I flew a case 3 approach and got an OK 1.  Is that even a grade in RL?  I would imagine a 1 wire, regardless of how pretty the approach would be (OK) at best, but I'm not sure if case 3 grading is more lenient or something.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on January 17, 2013, 10:55:44 am
Sadly Neptunus Lex died in a Kfir crash last year but he wrote a lot online about USN NavAv. He was an LSO amongst other things. Here is one brief description of grades:

Landing grades By lex, on September 7th, 2004

http://www.neptunuslex.com/2004/09/07/landing-grades/

"We grade every landing that a pilot performs aboard the aircraft carrier.

There’s a board in every ready room, displaying the color-coded grades. Everyone in that highly competitive environment knows exactly where he fits in the hierarchy of the one thing which separates every Navy pilot from his terrestrial, mortal counterparts: Landing aboard the ship. You could have an outstanding mission, replete with shacked targets, dead bandits and superior airborne leadership. But if you came back and landed on the “ace,” the one-wire, it was a bad hop.

It’s not only what wire you catch (although that is important) – it’s how you get there. While it’s pretty hard to get a good grade on the one-wire, and impossible if you bolter, there are nearly as many 4.0 two-wires as there are three-wires.

Smooth, predictable and controlled. Or at least making it look that way.

Because we’re all about appearances.

Actually, the reason why we grade landings is part of a continuous process improvement plan – we work hard to do it well when it’s easy, so that we can do it at all when it’s hard. And it does get hard. Chinese algebra hard, when the deck is moving, and the weather rolls in, and the moon is a distant memory of a time when it didn’t suck, quite so bad.

So the grades:

OK – An “Oh-kay.” A 4.0 grade, pretty much the best that you can do – above average, in other words. There’s also the OK (Oh-kay, underline) – reserved for outstanding landings with significant complicating factors – an engine out, for example. You don’t count on OK.

Next is a (OK), or “fair” pass. Fleet average. The parentheses are used in LSO shorthand to indicate “a little.” So a (OK) is a little OK. A 3.0 grade.

Next is a bolter, indicated by a “B.” A bolter is a 2.5 grade – better than the worst normal pass, the “No-grade” (2.0), defined as “below average.” A No-grade is ugly, but safely ugly. Nevertheless, you don’t want to make a habit of being safely ugly. You’re not getting paid for that.

Next down the list is a “wave-off,” a 1.0 grade, defined as “unsettled dynamics, potentially unsafe.” The “eat at Joe’s” lights come on, you add full power, and are asked to try again. Harder.

Finally comes the worst grade, the “Cut.” A 0.0 grade, defined as “unsafe deviations inside the wave-off window.” The wave-off window is that moment in space and time where no matter what the LSO tells you to do, you’re going to land. Somewhere. You definitely don’t want to get many of those. They’re career enders.

Anyone who maintains a GPA above 3.0 is professionally safe. Anyone who’s GPA starts with a 2-point-anything had better start working harder.

The LSO’s use shorthand to grade a pass – something written down as: (OK) OC NEP-BC /IM (NEP-CDIC) SDAR LOBDRIW 2, would translate into, “Fair pass: over-controlled a little not enough power on the ball call, fly through up in the middle, a little not enough power on the come-down in close, settle/decel at the ramp, low, flat, drift right in the wires. Two-wire.” As a pilot, you’d like to hear as few comments as possible, since comment quantity has an inverse relationship to landing quality.

At the end of every line period (anywhere from three weeks to three months, depending on what the carrier has been doing), the air wing will gather in the ship’s forecastle (pronounced foc’s'l) for an awards ceremony. There are songs, and skits and much buffoonery before awarding those pilots who have passed a milestone (100, 200, 300 traps, etc) and finally the “Top Ten” in landing grades. It’s a lot of fun, especially if you’re in the Top Ten. More especially still if you’re the number one guy, the “Top Hook.”

Because landing aboard the ship at all hours, and in all conditions, is what we do. I mean, anyone can merely fly a fighter. Right?"
____________________________

http://www.amazon.com/wiki/Landing_Signal_Officer

"...Example Grade
It is a common misconception that pilots are graded based on the wire their tailhook catches on the pass. LSOs don't look at where the plane landed, they look at how it got there. It is possible for a pilot to fly a safe pass and land on a 1 wire, it is also possible that a plane catches a 3 wire and the landing is unsafe. Under normal circumstances, on Nimitz class carriers the targeted hook touchdown point is halfway between the two wire and the three wire...."
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on January 17, 2013, 07:38:48 pm
That was a good read.  I knew that the grade wasn't solely based on the wires, but I just didn't think a 4.0 1 wire was possible since you would have to be at a minimum (LO)AR or have some serious decel.  But this has certainly given me a new goal: OK 1 wire  :o :o :o
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 18, 2013, 03:15:03 am
No chance, mate  ;D With vLSO you can only have an Ok 3.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on January 18, 2013, 03:37:56 am
No chance, mate  ;D With vLSO you can only have an Ok 3.

Makes sense.  I'm still going to screw around and see if I can get an OK 1 with no comments  ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Herbie on January 18, 2013, 05:05:55 am
I'm getting a lot of wave-up with the new version. Herb
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: jeff64 on January 18, 2013, 01:27:08 pm
You seem to be a little high, a little right and fast. So doesn't seem too much weird to me to be wavedoff...

Maybe it would be interesting to have a little sensivity settings in some future versions.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 19, 2013, 07:47:20 pm
Good news - the S-3B tanker now automatically extends its refueling drogue when the user's aircraft is within 500' and retracts when it is beyound this range. This particular IRIS freeware model has an embedded command WATER RUDDER (by default mapped in FSX to Ctrl-W), which toggles the drogue. So it is possible to control this thing in AI mode as well. Some screengrabs of my in-flight tests:

(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/4434/tankingk.jpg)
(http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3029/tanking1.jpg)
(http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/8898/tanking2.jpg)
(http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/4438/tanking3.jpg)

I'll include this feature in the next vLSO beta.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on January 19, 2013, 09:42:46 pm
Beautiful...
Is it the "Navy" model of the S-3B?
Do we need to update anything in vLSO to make this work?
Thanks Serge.

Johan
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 20, 2013, 01:25:07 pm
Johan,
Is it the "Navy" model of the S-3B?
No, the Navy model doesn't have an AAR pod (seen on the left wing station).Only those with AAR pods have animated drogues.
Do we need to update anything in vLSO to make this work?
Nothing. Just configure the IRIS S-3B as a tanker. Indeed, this feature will be available in the next vLSO beta.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Victory103 on January 22, 2013, 12:40:58 am
FSXNP, although I have TacPack, this is still a great addition to the vLSO program. Anyway to add a Tanker menu so the user can select different models set in the .ini file, much like AICarriers?
(http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/5491/ka6w.jpg)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 22, 2013, 03:20:17 am
Victory103,
Do you mean multiple tankers defined? Currently only one aircraft can be configured as a tanker. What about vLSO GUI option, allowing to choose one from all aircraft installed in FSX, both flyable and AI? This option will be featured in the upcoming beta ;)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on January 22, 2013, 06:09:09 am
Hi fsxnvp,

My S-3B doesn't seem to want to show it's drogue, even close, even with CTRL-W...It's the same as yours, the #8873, and my tanker is defined in vLSO as:

[Tanker]
Name=DSB S-3B Viking (VS-24_#1)
Altitude=3000
Speed=220
Track_Length=9
Track_Width=3

When I use it as regular plane, the drogue works fine with CTRL-W.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you,

Johan

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 22, 2013, 06:24:01 am
I keep repeating - this feature will be available in the next vLSO beta  ;)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Orion on January 22, 2013, 06:44:24 am
Haven't had a chance to try things out yet, so a question about refueling: does vLSO automatically add fuel to your aircraft, or does it only create the AI aircraft?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 22, 2013, 07:15:55 am
Currently vLSO only spawns the tanker overhead the boat. One has to have a refueling gauge, like in the Sludge Hornet.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: MacK on January 24, 2013, 12:14:55 am
This is absolutely superb stuff!

Just downloaded and tried the latest version (a long line of downloads from this site over the years, the Sludge Hornet is all I fly) and downloaded and set the S3 as the AAR tanker. Looks great! I need to make the pattern longer. I always just get levelled off with the thing (again) when it heads off on it's next leg.

Along with the Carriers and AIboats etc, vLSO revolutionised my FSX.

I managed to program an AI Carrier that leaves Stornoway, on the Isle of Lewis at midnight (large island off the NW coast of Scotland, UK) and sails down the west coast of Scotland between the Outer Hebrides and the Mainland (deep, deep water and loads of space for carriers) for around 14 hours. If I take off from the old RAF base at Machrihanish (Argyll) around midday, the carrier is only about 10 miles south and gives some great flying very quickly. Alternatively, take off earlier and try and find the carrier before you run out of fuel - it's a very inhospitable place to run out of fuel.

Now there's the S3 flight overhead for refueling near the carrier to compliment my RAF L1011 on a very long AAR racetrack pattern between Belfast and Edinburgh should you want to travel further out.

If anyone wants to try this AI stuff then give me a shout and I'll try and send you the files.

vLSO is a stunningly good program and great fun (and great learning) just for bumps 'n turns.  Thanks very much FSXNavypilot!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: felixthreeone on January 24, 2013, 04:43:34 am
First off---GREAT PROGRAM!! Totally enjoying the added challenge it brings to carrier ops. I don't post much here, but I do try to read up as much as possible....

....I was wondering If anyone here could share their aircraft cfg sections for the vLSO .ini file for several aircraft that I am not sure are covered by the base install...namely the Iris Tomcat, the Razbam A-6, EA-6B, and A-7 (I only own the 2-seater), and maybe (I know they suck really bad) the Abacus E-2 and C-2? I just copied and pasted the S-3 section, but I can't see that these numbers are the same for all of the other planes...thanks in advance!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on February 10, 2013, 01:26:47 am
I was getting in a few of my monthly pinkies last night and for some reason I just now noticed this.  I get the marshal call at 10 miles, nothing, nothing, nothing, 5 miles say needles.  No dirty up call, and no mile calls until needles.  I flew probably 10 case 3 patterns and came to this conclusion: No calls until 5 miles UNLESS my gear is already lowered PRIOR to the marshal call in which case I get the dirty up call and all the mile calls.  Is this a known issue, or is my setup just being dumb? 
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on February 10, 2013, 12:05:58 pm
pyroperson89,
If your gears lowered prior to 9nm then you should hear ALL mile calls, starting from 'niner miles, dirty up' to 'paddles contact'. Ifyou can't hear some of the calls, please make sure that wav files of these calls are present within the Marshal subfolder.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on February 11, 2013, 05:59:09 am
That is correct.  If I lower my gear prior to 10 miles I get all of the calls.  However, to be more realistic you wouldn't actually lower your gear or flaps until you got the dirty up call from the LSO at 9 miles.  So my dilemma is that I ONLY get the dirty up call if I am already in the dirty configuration, which isn't true to life. 
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on February 11, 2013, 06:39:28 am
pyroperson89,
I know there are some calls inconsistencies, mostly due to limited number of real voice calls. But I will try to fix this glitch in the future  :)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on February 11, 2013, 09:41:09 pm
Okay excellent.  I'm not complaining by any means.  I love vLSO and I think it's a fantastic little program.  I was just pointing out inconsistencies that I've noticed to hopefully help you out with future releases.  Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mower on February 16, 2013, 05:01:44 pm
No doubt a dumb question but...

(1) when the LSO says "power" or "dont settle" do I add throttle?
(2) when the LSO says "you're fast" or "you're slow", do I adjust AOA?

Cheers!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on February 16, 2013, 05:28:05 pm
No doubt a dumb question but...

(1) when the LSO says "power" or "dont settle" do I add throttle?
(2) when the LSO says "you're fast" or "you're slow", do I adjust AOA?

Cheers!

Yes..but,

(1) Yes, and
(2) Yes

Cheers!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on February 16, 2013, 06:22:24 pm
No doubt a dumb question but...

(1) when the LSO says "power" or "dont settle" do I add throttle?
(2) when the LSO says "you're fast" or "you're slow", do I adjust AOA?

Cheers!

To be more precise...

1) Yes.  You're settling below the glideslope and need to add some power to catch it again.
2) Remember that Naval Aviation is backwards from most other forms of aviation.  Or should I say everything else is backwards from Naval Aviation! Ha.  Throttle controls rate of descent.  You should be trimmed to the proper AoA before you call the ball, and stick inputs are generally speaking for lateral control. 

If you want to know more about how it really works I would PM someone like Sludge or Spaz.  They really know their stuff and could probably explain it better.

Pyro
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on February 16, 2013, 06:28:13 pm
........... Remember that Naval Aviation is backwards from most other forms of aviation.  Or should I say everything else is backwards from Naval Aviation! ..........

I'm sorry but I don't understand that.
Pray tell me how!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Victory103 on February 16, 2013, 06:45:01 pm
Area of reverse command, now pitch controls speed, power controls altitude. Adjust both in unison to stay on glidepath in the groove. For the most part set your on-speed AoA, and maintain it with slight adjusts all the way down to the wires.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on February 16, 2013, 08:50:53 pm
Mower...

As Pyro and others have said, when you're doing a carrier approach, you need to be in a dirty setup (gear down, hook down) and Flaps FULL, have the "W" (aircraft cord-line) near the 5 deg up on the pitch ladder and the "o" (velocity vector; predicted line-of-flight) around 3-4 deg down on the pitch ladder. To change your glideslope, using needles (glideslope needle) or the meatball (yellow center vertical light), keep the "W" on the 5 and ADD THROTTLE in easy increments. You'll notice the "o" (v/v) rise... let it... 'til you get a centered g/s needle or centered meatball. Then back pull off the power 'til you get a centered "E-bracket" (HUD-based AoA indicator) and reconfirm you are "on-speed" by using the physical AoA Indexer giving you the "yellow donut".

If you have problems with understanding this, check out my Y/T on how to fly a carrier pattern, with emphasis on the final landing phase, starting around 1:30.



Later
Sludge

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on February 16, 2013, 10:43:06 pm
'Mower' you have had some great answers and Sludge's video explainos are excellent. Perhaps starting out learning NavAv attempting carrier landings from the getgo is not to your advantage. Carrier pilots start with about 100 FCLPs with every other sortie landing an 'FCLP' so by the time they get to the carrier for their first deck landing on type they have done at least 100 FCLPs (this number reduces with their individual experience). Perhaps trying out FCLPs will be helpful. FSXNP has a mission package that is excellent value also. Then there is this amazing explaino video from the FSXblues:

http://fsxblueangels.com/videoscreen%20ok3.html

Searching this forum for 'how to deck land' or similar will glean a lot of advice. Watch the video to get your head around NavAv.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: mjrhealth on February 16, 2013, 10:47:14 pm
Power for altitude , pitch for speed, im getting better. Most planes require the speed breaks on to get the engine speed up so that they respond faster. You also need to keep adjusting power in small increments or it all goes to pot. Just watch some cockpit shots on youtube and you can hear the engines being constantly adjusted till just before touch down than throttle to the wall.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: ESzczesniak on February 17, 2013, 01:24:24 am
...Remember that Naval Aviation is backwards from most other forms of aviation...

Nothing backwards about naval aviation.  This is how every aircraft approach works.  If you really want to land a Cessna right, this is how to do it.  Large tubeliners only get away being "backwards" because there is a relative lack of precision (they're aiming ot hit a 2,000' touchdown zone).  Combined with the long lag times for engine spools, it works better to fly speed with power and descent rate with pitch. 

Truth is though that it's all the same physics and behaves the same way.  So when they power up to speed up, what's really happening is their descent rate decreased, they drop the nose to stay on glideslope and as a result speed increases.  Just a different way of thinking aobut things given how relatively slow it all happens in these birds.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on February 17, 2013, 03:23:40 am
My initial basic/advanced flying training was with the RAAF (from late 1967 through all of 1968) even though I was an RAN 'about to be pilot' (which had no such training facilities). Once we were back at NAS Nowra after about 15 months of ground school / flight training in the RAAF we had to adjust to how the Navy do their landings. Believe me - it is different. I'll wager many GA pilots are taught many things that are either: all the one way or the other; or a mixture of both. However it is clear that as far as I know the RAAF in conventional aircraft (not their Hornets for example) use their method, which is: reducing airspeed on final and increasing flap as required to maintain glideslope with throttle movements as necessary to smoothly approach FLARE and touchdown within the required zone.

A NAVY method is similar to a 'short field landing method' taught in the RAAF when I was Basic Flight Training with them in a Winjeel. My instructor happened to be a Gannet pilot (who later went on to fly Trackers) and he could not WAIT to get to demo a Navy approach to me. When it was possible I would do these short field landing approaches starting out with full flap from the beginning at five knots above stall speed (for the Winjeel a radial prop trainer) and with the nose well down, maintain a constant glide path to aim to hit the numbers on the runway, with that five knots available for a big nose pull up for the flare - land immediately (no floating). That was fun.  ;D

BTW the Winjeel was a tail dragger with an unlockable tail wheel. Forget to lock the tailwheel downwind, before entering the circuit was best, and boy oh boy you were in for a fun ride upon landing in any kind of adverse conditions. The tailwheel could be unlocked with full forward stick in flight (aerobatics); but necessary to unlock it whilst taxiing, which was difficult with the view not good, with that big radial prop up high and the tail down on the ground. Locking was achieved by momentarily pulling the stick back in your stomach completely, so best done at slow airspeed, or more likely when taxiing.
_____________

I guess it is worthwhile adding that the RAAF Advanced (Jet) Trainer of that era was the dual seat Vampire (Winjeel also dual seat/side by side). Once again the circuit/approach had a similar method. The RAAF Vampire had a more or less a straight wing, and not that many vices except: NO Spinning (unrecoverable) and a very slow to accelerate jet engine, managed only by the pilot. Over fuel (advance throttle too quickly) and the engine would rumble and howl but NOT accelerate until throttle reduced to have the noise stop and then more slowly advance throttle. There was a minimum RPM to have on finals so as to NOT get too far behind the long acceleration time. Consequently Vampire approaches tended to be a little on the low side (but not too low) with high RPM, so getting the airspeed to landing KIAS early was good, with full flap early good also; but YMMV. Same method as Winjeel though with reducing airspeed, minimal throttle (but above min. RPM) and lower flaps incrementally for the smooth approach, flare to touchdown.

Once at NAS Nowra we were able to first demonstrate our knowledge of 'how to fly the RAAF' way on the RAN FAA Navy Vampire Trainers but quickly shown how to 'sort of' fly the meatball, at about a constant ten knots above landing speed, so that we had energy to do the required flare before touchdown (the Vampire could not carry out a Naval Style landing - no flare). The approach was always going to be a bit dodgy 'flying the meatball' but it was to get us in touch with the Navy way of doing things.

We had to contend with the main west/east runway having a horrendous downdraught at the approach end of RW 26 - even in relatively light winds - due to a deep gully on the approach to the airfield on a 'mesa' in a bowl above lower surrounding terrain, that quickly went higher to the west of the airfield. Westerly winds were turbulent due this terrain to the west; which turbulence was increased by the gully. Many aircraft were lost with fatalities over the years; but not in the A4G/Macchi era due to the better engine and flight controls/response of these aircraft. The Sea Venom was a much more robust, able to carrier land, larger version of the Vampire with better engine response (I have about 100 hours on it but no deck landings). It suffered from poor visibility out the front in landing config; but in operational use the Observer in the right hand seat (who operated the air to air radar for interception all weather night) would call out the airspeed to the pilot, who could concentrate then on the view via a tight circuit, short straightaway.

I had no Observer, making my 'ashore only' circuits a little tricky, due to having to look inside and down for the airspeed, which was more or less constant with full flap at base turn till touchdown. The AoA Indexer in the Skyhawk was terrific, allowing pilots to always be looking at 'meatball, lineup and airspeed (Optimum Angle of Attack) all the way to touchdown.

My point about the downdraught was that it kept us very honest and precise during our approaches to land at NAS Nowra. In similar fashion the carrier approach method does the same. Recall the A-4 Skyhawk has a delta wing so that when the aircraft is dirtied up for landing, but underpowered and getting slow, it will go vertically down on that big DOWN elevator in the sky (that often is TOO CLOSE to the ground). :D Therefore our constant speed (for the non-carrier capable / no AoA Indexer aircraft) approaches were very precise. To get slow in the downdraught and underpowered could mean death, as some earlier pilots (in Furies, Venoms) discovered, sadly.

Brings to mind a story about the first RAAF Caribou to appear at NAS Nowra, attempting to demonstrate a short landing on that notorious RW 26, and how it ended up in a bad landing before the numbers, breaking the back of the aircraft, with the wings flopping broken onto the runway with some injuries to the crew. It seemed they were not paying attention to the regular ATC warning during their approach about the downdraught. So you can do all the right things and still be caught out. Best to fly the Navy Way - as described.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on February 17, 2013, 05:27:04 am
To keep me honest here are some other A4G pilot views: [my comments in brackets]

I'll also add that Peter is a former A4G pilot with many deck landings, from about my own era, whilst John (JB) comes later and was a RAAF trained (as well as the usual basic/advanced flight trained) QFI but I don't believe he has any deck landings because by the time he became an A4G pilot, A4G ops aboard HMAS Melbourne had ceased. He may have done touch and goes aboard (A4Gs no longer able to be catapulted at the end) but certainly he did FCLP on that notorious RW 26 AT NIGHT in strong westerly winds! POWER POWER POWER! :D VF-805 pilots were required to be as ready as possible to embark at short notice.

Attitude for Airspeed. Power for Rate of Descent? 20 Feb 2010 By Marty

http://www.flight.org/blog/2010/02/20/attitude-for-airspeed-power-for-rate-of-descent/

“...Peter, an Emirates 777 pilot [ex-A4G], posted the following:
‘Real aviators landed airplanes on ships by flying alpha (angle of attack) and varying power to control the sink rate. Pilots of the blue persuasion [RAAF] insisted on landing on long runways by using power to control airspeed and attitude to control the sink rate. I like the navy way!’
_____________________

John Bartels (of QF30 fame), and now an A380 Captain [ex-A4G], said:
‘The RAAF teaches power for speed, and attitude for glidepath. It’s easy to understand, works, and it’s accurate. And it then translates to every other aircraft type that they use, so you don’t have to learn another method.

        The navy actually flies both an AoA approach, and an airspeed controlled by power approach [my comment: but only for emergency 'higher than normal approach speed/weight' or whatever the emergency requirements required]. Flying alpha in something like an A4 was difficult to learn and hard to do accurately, but it allowed pilots to fly way down on the back of the drag curve… well below where any sensible person would want to be flying. It allowed you to arrive on the ship with the minimum energy… an absolute necessity. On shore bases it’s used for practice, but if you want to make air force style smooth landings, then you needed to be a bit faster, and so use the other method.’ [This style of landing not required usually for A4G pilots who would use the portable mirror ashore to keep in practice as much as possible, landing after every sortie using this mirror/carrier approach method.]

[MARTY (Blogger):] JB’s early flying experience was gained in Skyhawks and other fast navy jets in an environment that required aircraft be flown in a particular manner. However interesting, I’m not quite sure the technique applies to training aircraft!

         In typical JB style, he gives us another point of view validating the military-style ‘attitude for profile’ method: [HPA = High Precautionary Approach or Engine Out Forced Landing]

Also from the A4G. [HPA] ‘Put 170 mils on the gunsight (just a setting, don’t worry about it). Hold the cross hairs (pipper) on the end of the runway, and don’t let it move. Control speed by varying the drag (gear, flaps, speedbrakes). Approach IAS… around 200-220 kts. Start flare at 400 feet AGL....’”
______________________

JB describes a very general way to HPA above. However what is more likely for the A4G is the 160 KIAS emergency approach, when the aircraft has controllable power but otherwise heavy landing weight higher than usually allowed or damaged airframe components. A4G NATOPS better describes these out of the ordinary approaches. No one will use them to get aboard a carrier.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on February 17, 2013, 09:25:12 am
Spaz that was some dang good reading.  Loved that personal commentary.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on February 17, 2013, 12:58:33 pm
'pyroperson87' thanks. Rather than write some kind of book that not many people would be interested in reading because I'm no writer, a few years ago now I decided to collect what I had about those times in the RAN FAA and then put it into a PDF which grew and grew. Had to stop at 4.4GB - the size that others can archive on a DVD and also I could send to them in the mail on DVD (before broadband internet ruled the world). Of course not all of that PDF is about the A4G and the RAN FAA fixed wing but also about the F-35 because it interests me and 'how to deck land'. This is no step by step how to because I cannot actually relate to modern aircraft as such with my own experience which is only with the A4G. However I found that investigating how NavAv is done today, in the USN mostly, that there was a bunch of history and NavAv stuff that literally I knew nothing about. There was no internet 40 years ago and information about others was scarce and on a 'need to know' basis.

Anyway long story short, this PDF and smaller bits of it are on the web page URLs in my signature below all of my posts. The 'SpazSinbad' page on SkyDrive is the easiest to access but due to file size restrictions large files can only (now) be less than 300 Mbs. Otherwise on GoogleDrive, which one has to sign up to for FREE, the same files are intact for perhaps easier download for some. At both sites there is a 4GB Video DVD of A4G Ops aboard HMAS Melbourne which includes most of the accidents, thankfully none fatal onboard.

At moment in about 8 hours from now the very latest version of the 4.4GB PDF will finish uploading to GoogleDrive - the same version more or less is on SkyDrive. Download it - you will not be bored I hope. :D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mower on February 19, 2013, 05:10:38 pm
Having trouble with the AOA approach and keeping the FPM on the deck.  Example:  LSO says "you're fast" so I raise the nose but then the FPM drifts up and I have to reduce power and then he'll "dont settle"...robbing Peter to pay Paul it seems.

Just got to practice I guess.

Years spent landing my (v) F16 in FBMS not serving me well.  Flare to land = squat to pee.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on February 19, 2013, 06:17:12 pm
'Mower' I do not use your described method but believe it is useful up to about 3/4 of a nautical mile when you need to transition to the meatball / IFLOLS. There is no substitute for that last 'half mile'. The mirror is accurate.

There is no harm in practising FCLP if you are not familiar with the Navy Approach method using Optimum Angle of Attack. FCLP takes some guesswork out of the pattern because during dusk/day (for example) you can have ground features to help get your pattern correct so that otherwise you can concentrate on flying the meatball accurately many times in a session.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mower on February 19, 2013, 07:27:26 pm
For the final 3/4 mile I have trouble seeing the meatball clearly, even with Javier Fernandez's or Lamont Clark's.

Running on 1920x1080 resolution.

Who can read that tiny meatball...?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on February 19, 2013, 08:05:04 pm
Having trouble with the AOA approach and keeping the FPM on the deck.  Example:  LSO says "you're fast" so I raise the nose but then the FPM drifts up and I have to reduce power and then he'll "dont settle"...robbing Peter to pay Paul it seems.

Just got to practice I guess.

Years spent landing my (v) F16 in FBMS not serving me well.  Flare to land = squat to pee.

Mower...

Great quote about "robbing Peter to pay Paul", especially when it comes to Nav Av carrier approaches. You are alot closer to the right answer than you know, especially in powered approaches all the way to the deck. For the most part, yes.... throttle controls RoD and stick controls speed, but there is some "overlap" as you are finding out, they are NOT completely independent of each other. Yes, it does take practice.

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on February 19, 2013, 08:15:48 pm
EZ...

...Remember that Naval Aviation is backwards from most other forms of aviation...
Nothing backwards about naval aviation.  This is how every aircraft approach works.  If you really want to land a Cessna right, this is how to do it.  Large tubeliners only get away being "backwards" because there is a relative lack of precision (they're aiming ot hit a 2,000' touchdown zone).  Combined with the long lag times for engine spools, it works better to fly speed with power and descent rate with pitch.  
Truth is though that it's all the same physics and behaves the same way.  So when they power up to speed up, what's really happening is their descent rate decreased, they drop the nose to stay on glideslope and as a result speed increases.  Just a different way of thinking aobut things given how relatively slow it all happens in these birds.

I think he's just talking about how other pilots tend to work the landing and their priorities. If you look at this article (sure you've probly seen it), the Hornet driver talks about landing with this mentality with the Viper. Which is ironically funny in this case, since Mower is the guy who's crossing over to FSX Hornets (Nav Av) from a Viper sim.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/air-warfare/169261-f-16-vs-f-18-navy-test-pilots-perspective.html (http://www.defence.pk/forums/air-warfare/169261-f-16-vs-f-18-navy-test-pilots-perspective.html)

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on February 19, 2013, 08:23:30 pm
Mower...

For the final 3/4 mile I have trouble seeing the meatball clearly, even with Javier Fernandez's or Lamont Clark's.

Have you done the Dante Lights fix as well as changed the runway lights scalars in your FSX.CFG? I know this gives me a really clear meatball at 1920 x 1080 resolution.

Also, do you get "you're low" calls all the way in the groove or in-close? I've been getting those IC/AR alot lately, and keeping a steady approach, get a 4 wire. If more people have this happening, I might include a possible fix to this in my email with Serge.

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mower on February 19, 2013, 08:34:30 pm
"In the Hornet, the throttle is the primary control for the FPM; in the Viper, it's the stick."

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/air-warfare/169261-f-16-vs-f-18-navy-test-pilots-perspective.html#ixzz2LNKX6Iq4

Yep, there it is, the source of my troubles landing on the Boat.

Cheers Sludge.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mower on February 19, 2013, 08:38:02 pm
Have you done the Dante Lights fix as well as changed the runway lights scalars in your FSX.CFG?

Not aware of either, got any links please kind Sir?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on February 19, 2013, 09:02:09 pm
Mower...

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=2821.msg23722#msg23722 (http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=2821.msg23722#msg23722)

Funny you should ask, we've had this discussion before here, so follow this thread to my post where I have a Dantes Lights Fix.ZIP downloadable and the scalars you should start out with in your FSX.CFG file.

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mower on February 19, 2013, 09:04:48 pm
Copy, I'm on it, thanx again Sludge. :-)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on February 19, 2013, 09:10:16 pm
Mower...

No Prob. Once you get it installed and working to your liking, would you let me know what you experience in your passes w/the vLSO? If you get those "you're low" calls even though you end up with a good pass OK 3-wire approach. Trying to give Serge some feedback based on a hunch I have as to why it keeps calling stuff low.

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on February 19, 2013, 09:11:58 pm

Also, do you get "you're low" calls all the way in the groove or in-close? I've been getting those IC/AR alot lately, and keeping a steady approach, get a 4 wire. If more people have this happening, I might include a possible fix to this in my email with Serge.

Later
Sludge

Sludge, I also get a lot of (LO)AR, even though I crest the ball for the entire approach, which usually means I catch a four wire, or bolter. I sent Serge my logbook and also some pictures from FSX (HUD view and otw view) and his assessment is I am still low (he actually compared my vertical profile to one of you passes). Can't argue with the LSO or the vLSO I guess.  8)

 Send him your logbook, to see what he thinks.

GOONIE


p.s. acutally the picture in my banner below is from one of the pics I sent Serge to show my AR position (seems like the hook is at the correct height to me, or at least not a little low).
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on February 19, 2013, 09:38:13 pm
Goonie...

Long time, buddy. Yeah, I may do that when I get a chance and enough passes to warrant sending the logbook file.

My suspicion is that the meatball, the visual model, and/or the glideslope reference point are not matching up or have some type of flaw that we are missing. I know that the carrier visual model is not correct. A while back, was flying with Molly (SYM;ShutYoMouth) Badger and she pointed out something that Sandpro and his gang found out... the carrier dimensions are not correct. If I remember, I think the FSX version is smaller and its compounded by the fact that the overlap of Javier's carrier makes things a little disoriented.

The reason I have my suspicions is that what we see in FSX (carrier meatball and wires) dont represent well and the fixes I've done with the Sludge (wire caught pee-pee dance) using this knowledge that the carrier physical model and activity (wire catch zones) areas dont match up. IMO, a possible vLSO fix would be to move the g/s datum points backward, so that they correspond with the visual model, to make the whole process transparent to the vLSO user. Essentially, the cause of the pee-pee dance was that we were doing a midair engagement on every pass. The wire engagement zones are above and behind of the physical model depictions.

In my opinion, this might be another FSX vs. real-world go-between fix because of FSX carrier's physical model overlay and incorrect scale size difference.

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on February 19, 2013, 11:28:58 pm
Sludge/Goonie,

I get (LO)AR calls all the time, some warranted others not so much IMHO.  In my experience I would have to agree that the positioning is a bit off as I've had times where I almost caught the ramp and the debrief only showed (LO)AR when it should have at least said LOAR if not LOAR.  See attached - and don't judge that first pass...that was my first pattern ever with the Sludge or FSXBA Hornet (can't remember which).  I've noticed that in order to not get a (LO)AR call and still catch the 3 wire I have to crest the ball until just before the ramp/over the ramp and then CAG-dip it into the wires.

Mower,

Check out this video for an idea of how real life Nav Av looks as far as throttle/stick inputs in the groove go.  It's not that good, but it's the best I could find.  Watch from about 4:14 onward.  If you're not a fan of Guns N' Roses, prepare to mute it  ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qwzhQDiQEs&list=LLcZKt16_s3puyOTv8hkqbTQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qwzhQDiQEs&list=LLcZKt16_s3puyOTv8hkqbTQ)

Obviously FSX is a bit different, but it's pretty close to looking like that for me, which usually results in my wife laughing and making fun of me if she's in the room  :D

Pyro
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on February 20, 2013, 06:53:29 pm
Sludge,
Definitely bro, long time. Curious to know more about the carrier dimensions not being correct. I know Javier put a lot of time into his carrier, wish he was still working it or someone knew what he was up to. Seems like he could fix it.

As for the wires, that has always been an issue of mine. I wish wire animation and full integration into the sim was possible or could be done, or at least represented more realistically. As you point out they  are modeled above and behind their visual representation, fun. How does this effect scoring? For example when I catch a 3 wire, is it really the 3, or could it have been the 2 wire?

Pyro,
Attached are some of my passess, including the HUD view for the (LO)AR (I see a cresting or centered  ball at the ramp from the 2D view).

GOONIE
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on February 20, 2013, 10:46:27 pm
What's going on in the second shot Goonie?  81 seconds in the groove???
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on February 20, 2013, 11:18:48 pm
I paused the sim to take a couple shots from various views AR to show Serge.

What your passes don't last for a minute??? :P
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on February 21, 2013, 09:04:44 am
Pyro...

Good video, I think that was posted in the "cool videos" thread as well... love the split cam on approach style along with the comms. Ya, that's why I asked 'cause I was suspecting the consistently (LO)/LO) AR calls during solid 3 wire passes might be due to FSX carrier mismatch. BTW, WTF was that first pass, SH!7, that looked like something outta the movie AIRPLANE! .... "Damnit Stryker, you're all over the place".

Goonie...

It was during a time when I was doing some passes with the first vLSO versions and talking with Molly (SYM) Badger. Apparently, some of the fellas over at Sand Pro's fsxcarrierops have figured out that the carrier dimensions are not as close as they should be... from what I understand its a matter of 100's of feet not just a few feet here or there. Its apparent is screenshots of aircraft on CATs (cat 4 and the meatball posit) and when taxiing, plus alot of other things that they have done. I'll try to talk to Molly Badger and get some more specifics when I get a few moments away from the Sludge. If you use the Sludge or Jimi's Bird, the tailhooks are fixed (higher and behind), so that you should get an approximately close trap wire catch.

Fellas...

Anybody else on FSDT have similar experiences. Dont be afraid to speak up, if its a common occurence, Serge needs to know about it to make the vLSO better... or in this case, better adapted to some probable FSX deficiencies.

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mower on February 21, 2013, 04:27:36 pm
Anybody else on FSDT have similar experiences. Dont be afraid to speak up, if its a common occurence, Serge needs to know about it to make the vLSO better... or in this case, better adapted to some probable FSX deficiencies

LOL...my issue with that is that being that I currently SUCK at trapping, I can't tell if its an issue with vLSO or not.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on February 22, 2013, 12:04:27 am
Try practicing with the T45C as it has a lower approach speed and is easier to learn the way to approach the carrier.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on February 22, 2013, 12:19:34 am
Try some FCLP also to get the hang of the Navy Approach technique. I find the F-45C by Dino Cattaneo FREE excellent for this purpose. Dial up the wind to further decrease approach groundspeed for 'more time in the groove' - so to speak - for training.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mower on February 22, 2013, 02:39:49 pm
Yeah I have the T45 so will trot it out and put it through its paces with some FCLP.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on February 22, 2013, 06:18:19 pm
Once  you get the hang of the FSXNP 'FCLP Mission' Series try at least to do most of your FCLP in Mission 4 (dusk) so that you will be concentrating more on the approach setup with IFLOLS/centreline/Opt AoA rather than looking at the runway during daytime. Most FCLP is done at night.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mower on February 23, 2013, 05:45:20 pm
Once  you get the hang of the FSXNP 'FCLP Mission' Series try at least to do most of your FCLP in Mission 4 (dusk)

Where do I find these missions please?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on February 23, 2013, 06:49:49 pm
Where do I find these missions please?

http://library.avsim.net/download.php?DLID=153677 (http://library.avsim.net/download.php?DLID=153677)

That is a direct link.  Should start downloading within a few seconds of clicking it.  Have fun!

Pyro
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on February 23, 2013, 06:50:31 pm
Last time checked the 'FCLP Missions by FSXNP' were here:

FCLP Missions pack vol.2 [User has to be logged in for any URL to work I guess - otherwise INFO good]

http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?DLID=155351&CatID=fsxmsn

"FCLP Missions pack vol.2 is an updated version of the original FCLP Missions pack. The new pack features an authentic IFLOLS Mk.14, a custom FSX lights texture and modified El Centro and Coupeville sceneries as well as the missions.
Filename: fclp_pack_vol2.zip
Size: 21,253kb
License: Freeware
Added: 25th December 2010"
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on February 23, 2013, 06:59:12 pm
I didn't know there was an update...sweet!  I'm stoked for the Mk13/14 instead of that old crappy Mk6 that used to be sitting there.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mower on February 23, 2013, 07:16:07 pm
On it, will go with the vol2, cheers.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Letourn on March 10, 2013, 02:34:55 am
Hi All,

Does someone know the AOA and the Abeam for Dino F-35C and Virtavia A-4?

It would be nice to add them on the Aircraft section

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on March 10, 2013, 08:28:49 am
Carrier Circuit Diagram is from A-4E/F/G NATOPS. There is not a lot known about the F-35C carrier circuit at this point but I'll add what is known by me so far.

The A-4 AoA is in units - not actual Angles of Attack as per this: "“The recommended 17 1/2 units on the A-4F aircraft is consistent with 17 1/2 units on the A-4C & A-4E, and 19 units on the A-4B aircraft. At these recommended approach units, for equal gross weights, the approach airspeed & attitude with respect to horizontal will be equal on all A-4 series aircraft.” A-4G NATOPS Quote

2nd Chart Graphic from NATOPS to show Optimum AoA at different allowed Carrier Approach weights with corresponding airspeed.
____________________________
_______________________________

"The F-35C model is as solid as a rock and pilots land at a much slower speed—high 120s to low 130s [knots]." http://www.codeonemagazine.com/f35_article.html?item_id=110
____________________

"The Navy has added approach speed as a service specific key performance parameter. The threshold for approach speed is 145 knots with 15 knots of wind over the deck. This must be possible at Required Carrier Landing Weight (RCLW). The RCLW is the sum of the aircraft operating weight, the minimum required bringback, and enough fuel for two instrument approaches & a 100nm BINGO profile to arrive at a divert airfield with 1000 pounds of fuel. The minimum required bringback is two 2000 pound air-to-ground weapons and two AIM-120s.
     The Navy further requires that the CV JSF be capable of carrier recovery with internal and external stores; the external stations must have 1000 pound capability on the outboard stations & maximum station carriage weight on the inboard."
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_download-id-14791.html
_______________

"The [F-35C] max trap weight will be around 46k lbs, with an empty weight of about 35k lbs.

It will fly an on-speed AOA of 12.3° at 135-140 KCAS [Optimum AofA or Donut].

Due to the fact that flap scheduling is completely automatic, the cockpit was designed without a flaps switch. Additionally, the tail hook retracts into the fuselage and is covered by hook doors that have an as-yet-to-be-determined airspeed limitation..."
LT. Dan "Butters" Radocaj VX-23 Ship Suitability
http://www.hrana.org/documents/PaddlesMonthlySeptember2010.pdf
____________________

Knowles says the [F-35C] aircraft approached at 135 kt., compared with 155 kt. for the smaller-winged F-35A and B variants at the same 40,000-lb. gross weight. Takeoff rotation speed was 15-20 kt. slower, he says.
http://web02.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?channel=defense&id=news/awx/2010/06/07/awx_06_07_2010_p0-232376.xml&headline=JSF%20Carrier%20Variant%20Meets%20First%20Flight%20Goals
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Letourn on March 12, 2013, 12:50:40 am
Thanks Spaz I will try to add them to the aircraft section
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on March 19, 2013, 12:21:36 pm
Well guys,
It is becoming more and more obvious that almost everything about carrier ops in FSX Acceleration is modeled pretty loosely.
Here's what I have found during my countless tests of vLSO:

Deck angles of FSX carriers don't match real numbers:

CarrierFSX modelReal ship
CVN6512.2011.12
CVN68 Acceleration9.1939.05
CVN68 Javier8.4969.05

Guys here at the forum have already mentioned that the visual models of OLS and wires don't match their physical models. But which is most puzzling is that during my tests it appeared that FSX OLS is set to 4.12 degrees, not to 3.99 or 4.00, as we used to think. That's why vLSO and FLOLS glideslopes mismatched (they simply couldn't match!). The same is for ILS needles on the Neutrino's HUD, by the way. I have no idea why they used 4.12, but it's here where FSX disconnects from real world...  ???

So what? Well, at least your carrier approach numbers should be re-calculated.

The usual altitudes for a 3.75 glideslope:
1 nm   = 400'
3/4 nm = 320'
1/2 nm = 200'

For a 4.12 glideslope the numbers would be:
1 nm   = 440'
3/4 nm = 360'
1/2 nm = 220'

Of course, a steeper glideslope results in a higher descent rate. And here's where FSX disconnects from real world again.

Ok, down to OLS...
In FSX we have an OLS, representing the Mk6 FLOLS with 5 light cells, covering vertical angle of 1.7 degree.
Here's a picture of a real FLOLS:
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3316/3312053895_4a766ef97e_z.jpg)

As you can see, the datum lights axis goes almost between the #3 and #4 cells, or perhaps through the upper part of the #3 cell.
This means that at the moment you see the light switching from #3 to #4 cell (and vice versa), you are crossing the ideal glidepath.
I set my upcoming 0.7 vLSO beta to match FLOLS lights assuming that the ideal glideslope is somewhere there  ;)

A deviation of one or two hundredth of a degree could be neglected, I believe. We will try and see, right?  ;D

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on March 19, 2013, 02:20:49 pm
Very interesting, thanks for investigating in such detail.

Do you think this has something to do with all the (LO)AR scores and "don't settle" calls from the vLSO?

-GOONIE

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on March 19, 2013, 04:34:19 pm
Serge...

WOW, great work! Seriously, 4.12, what were they thinking? I mean, the FLOLS and IFLOLS are only supposed to go up to 4.0 IRL, right? At least LSO NATOPS prohibited to 4.0 G/S?

Anyway, cant wait to try your beta when it comes out.

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on March 19, 2013, 04:54:41 pm
Awesome work Serge. You continue to amaze me, as always.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on March 20, 2013, 06:05:50 am
Do you think this has something to do with all the (LO)AR scores and "don't settle" calls from the vLSO?

It certainly appears so.  :)  The focal point of current vLSO 3.99 glideslope is set slightly above, as shown on this picture:

(http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/4606/twogs.jpg)

Suppose, you're flying the ball, or descending along the blue glidepath (i.e. the FLOLS 4.12 glideslope). But vLSO expects you descending along the green glidepath (or the 3.99 glideslope), so you will descend lower and lower. At the point #1 the difference between the two glideslopes is almost nil, but at the point #2 (you may call it at the ramp) it is quite significant and vLSO 'thinks' you're little low.

In 0.7 beta the focal point of the new glideslope is set 5 feet lower and matches 4.12 angle.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on March 20, 2013, 04:19:42 pm
Serge...

I changed the Combat HUD G/S variable to 4.12 and it seemed to back up what you say; was really late (or early depending on your point of view), so I didn't get pics... but I'll try to get some when I get back tonight.

The main difference was making the wind over deck component to 35 knots+, p/ NATOPS specs. If you want some fun, try it with gusting winds and (light) turbulence enabled. Definately makes passes more challenging in that holding that cresting ball.

How will this affect the T-45C? I mean, 3.99 was bad enough (stormy pitching deck NATOPS ball limits), but now 4.12?

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on March 20, 2013, 05:04:18 pm
Thanks, Serge (I think we should start calling you Paddles).

I know you are not supposed to argue with Paddles, but I was sure my (LO)AR didn't seem right based on what I was seeing on the FLOLS. Dang FSX 4.12 g/s!!!

Thought this was appropriate to share, and could be adapted for vLSO  8)

It was a bright sunny day aboard the Big E,
When I powered my Hornet just over the three.
The ball it stayed steady, my glideslope was true,
Got an OK for sure, that’s the one thing I knew.

When Paddles came down they were on the attack,
My groove length was long, and my pattern was slack.
And then came the words that I feared they would say,
Fair pass 301, had you high all the way.

F@!! YOU PADDLES!!! You guys must be blind!
F@!! YOU PADDLES!!! Are you out of your mind?!
There’s no way I was high, so why can’t you see,
I only just barely got over the three.

That night was as bright as most any I knew,
The full moon lit up the horizon in blue.
So I felt quite alright with a sagger tonight,
And I only just barely dropped into the two.

Then Paddles came down and they started their dance,
Didn’t let me explain, never gave me a chance.
A stitch? Ticked the one? I wasn’t that low!
You’ve never flown Prowlers, so how would you know?

F@!! YOU PADDLES!!! You guys must be blind!
F@!! YOU PADDLES!!! Are you out of your mind?!
First I’m too high, and now I’m too low,
Just tell me where it is you want me to go?

The next night was dark with some storms rolling in,
The thunder was making a terrible din,
Easy Rider is gone put your taxi lights on,
CLARA ship, and they talked to me all the way in.

They came straight downstairs with a squish in their boots,
With their soggy wet hair and their dripping flights suits,
“The deck took a swing, you did just the right thing,
You did great 105,” and we started to sing.

HEY THANKS PADDLES!!! You guys are the best!
NICE JOB PADDLES!!! You passed the big test!
All our pilots survived, they all made it aboard.
We could swear that your voice was the sound of the Lord.

The next day was clear, a bright sunny day,
It was a bit windy, I got carried away.
And powered myself a bit over the three,
But not high enough for Paddles to see.

When Paddles walked in, his boots were still damp,
“Fair pass 210, too much power at the ramp.”
I thought for a sec, ‘bout the storms yesterday,
Before I decided just what I would say.

F@!! YOU PADDLES!!! You guys must be blind!
F@!! YOU PADDLES!!! Are you out of your mind?!
There’s no way I was high, so why can’t you see,
I only just barely got over the three.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on March 20, 2013, 06:05:58 pm
How will this affect the T-45C? I mean, 3.99 was bad enough (stormy pitching deck NATOPS ball limits), but now 4.12?

Sludge, my guess is that when they decided on the OLS GS angle the only aircraft they considered was the Hornet. You're right, 4.12 seems too much for the Goshawk. Hey, what 3.99? It has always been the same 4.12!  ;D

Thought this was appropriate to share, and could be adapted for vLSO  8)

Brennan, a very, very, very good verse! Brilliant! And I must admit you were right that (LO)AR didn't seem right. Dang FSX 4.12 g/s again!!! :)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on March 20, 2013, 06:39:34 pm
Goonie...

I like it, uh-lot!! Good news is that Serge OFFICIALLY (according to me) has a new callsign, PADDLES.

Paddles...

Right, I guess now that if you program the HUD with 4.12 and put 35+ knots of wind, the little Goshawk will have a great time coming aboard. Good thing we dont have real world maintenance issues with FSX, otherwise Airframes would be doing jack-n-smacks on the gear all the time just to keep the birds FMC.

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on March 20, 2013, 06:55:05 pm
Guys,

This is why I love the small FSX Nav Av community...SH!T GETS DONE! I just can't wait for the .7 beta to be released. Great work Paddles!

Sludge,

Where is the g/s variable located? I'm assuming one of the xml's. I'd like to adjust that on my jet.

Pyro
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on March 20, 2013, 07:45:52 pm
....................Good news is that Serge OFFICIALLY (according to me) has a new callsign, PADDLES..................

I hear ya Sludge.

TOTALLY agree with you.

Serge is 'Paddles' from today. Don't know of anyone who would personify that call sign more.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on March 20, 2013, 08:47:06 pm
Pyro...

Ya, definately great work.... +1 on can't wait for .7 vLSO beta.

Its in the main F-18 HUD .XML under the Glideslope <macro>. If you have trouble go to the FIND tab and look for "3.99" specifically. It should highlight as a MACRO and just change that from 3.99 to 4.12, then save.

Mickey...

Ya, thats what struck me. And it was one of those "its been there in front of our face for the longest time" truths. If anyone rates that callsign, its Serge. Sorry, I meant Paddles.

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: mjrhealth on March 30, 2013, 10:57:41 pm
Hi, like to thank you all for your efforts. Especially enjoy the tanking option. Thank goodness for the AI map couldnt find it otherwise. Now I take off from an airfield in Hawaii. do a couple of loops behind the tanker than land on the carrier. Getting lots of practice quiet difficult maintaining airspeed but improving.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on April 13, 2013, 07:55:16 pm
Ok, guys
The 0.7 beta is out (see post number one), at last.   ;) It's a major update with lots of features added/updated/reworked. Enjoy and don't hesitate to report any bugs/suggestions/whatever....
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on April 13, 2013, 08:38:18 pm
Yeah, downloading it.

Could you manage to include the 'debrief tool' I had requested in a separate thread?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on April 13, 2013, 09:37:26 pm
Ok, guys
The 0.7 beta is out (see post number one), at last.   ;) It's a major update with lots of features added/updated/reworked. Enjoy and don't hesitate to report any bugs/suggestions/whatever....

Thanks Paddles, all these goodies in the same package. Amazing work.

Johan
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Tregarth on April 13, 2013, 11:04:46 pm
Dear Paddles,

I started to download v0.7 but suddenly saw that a number of other programs wanted to run as well - NCDownload and Search Protect, both of which started a warning on ZoneAlarm. 

Are these your programs and what do they do?  I suspect they are advertising as a way of paying for a "free" download. If they are, I am willing to pay you for the use of vLSO (you certainly deserve it) in order to avoid having these programs on my PC.

How can I pay you directly?

Thank you,

Tregarth
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on April 14, 2013, 12:33:07 am
I started to download v0.7 but suddenly saw that a number of other programs wanted to run as well - NCDownload and Search Protect, both of which started a warning on ZoneAlarm. 
Tregarth

I believe those are programs from the file hosting site, NOT from Paddles.  I would uninstall/remove all the files, and then re-download from his mirror.  Below the download button, UNCHECK the box that says "Use our download manager blah blah blah" and then click download.  Voila.  No more extraneous programs.

Paddles, correct me if that is not the case.  Thanks for all the hard work.  Will hopefully get a chance to check it out tonight.

Pyro
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on April 14, 2013, 02:12:55 am
Thanks 'pyroperson87' - I would add to: click the grey smaller 'download now' button immediately above the 'unchecked' tick box you mention. If the very much larger BLACK 'Download Now' button is clicked on the right hand side of the screen then all the junk - specifically the .EXE file for the unnecessary 'download manager' will be downloaded. Thanks again 'fsxnp/PADDLES'!  ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on April 14, 2013, 07:42:21 am
Oops, I forgot to mention - a new FCLP pack 3 is available here http://www1.datafilehost.com/d/6971e06d (http://www1.datafilehost.com/d/6971e06d).

More vLSO compatible FCLP locations to come...  ;)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Tregarth on April 14, 2013, 09:43:01 pm
1.  What a brilliant job Paddles has done!  Thank you very much.

Thank you also to SpazSinbad and PyroPerson 87 for the help with the download instructions.

Some information:

I have a 2 x SSD set up, which has Win7 64 bit on the C drive and FSX on the F drive.  If anyone else needs to know, the vLSO files go into C\Prog Files (x86)\vLSO, (the same drive as AICarriers) .  Please don't ask how long it took me to find this out.

Some questions:

I have the Log Book showing the SimConnect, FSX, On-screen messages and Manual Ball all showing green but no one talks to me.  I have Sound, SeanHand, vLSO (application) and vLSO.cfg all in the vLSO folder, is this right? 

I also have the FCLP tab active; have flown over Coupeville but do not see the "You are in Coupeville area" as shown on p10 of the manual.

I am using the Coupeville daylight Mission which loads properly and shows the IFLOLS.  I take it Coupeville does not have an ILS, just a DME so the brilliant ILOLS gauge doesn't work.

I tried flying round both Coupeville and El Centro but neither seemed to work.  I have vLSO Options showing in the Add-Ons tab but when I click on that nothing happens.

Finally, I am flying Dino Cattaeo's T-45, when I go into settings on the LogBook page which shows the palne selected is the F18 A - D but when I select the T-45, click Save, the page closes but when I re-open it the plane selected is the F18 A-D.

I am sorry if I am being a pain, but as you can tell I enjoy trying to fly but am crap at installing the software.

Any help, comments, guidance will be much appreciated.

Thank you,

Tregarth
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: texxasal on April 14, 2013, 09:58:52 pm
Oops, I forgot to mention - a new FCLP pack 3 is available here http://www1.datafilehost.com/d/6971e06d (http://www1.datafilehost.com/d/6971e06d).

More vLSO compatible FCLP locations to come...  ;)

In the area of FCLP locations, may I put in a request for the Master Jet Bases of KNLC, and KNTU? Also places like Corpus Christi NAS, Meridian Miss, and KNUW would be great.

Anyway, thanks very much for all your efforts. they are much appreciated.

Al
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on April 15, 2013, 02:44:01 am
Ok, guys
The 0.7 beta is out (see post number one), at last.   ;) It's a major update with lots of features added/updated/reworked. Enjoy and don't hesitate to report any bugs/suggestions/whatever....


Serge,

Lots of good things on the Beta 0.7, I really like the tanker with the drogue deploying automatically when closing on it.
I tried with 2 AC's 10 miles away from each other. One is the regular CVN68 (Javier's), the other is the CVN65 SDB Enterprise. I can pick one or the other, vLSO works fine with both. However, my F/A-18 HUD will only pick the CVN68 in terms of distance and direction. So as I land on the CVN65, the HUD actually tells me that I am 10 miles away from the carrier...I don't know if this can be corrected but I guess it's probably from the HUD programming, not from vLSO.
I will continue testing this great release.
Thank you,


Johan
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on April 15, 2013, 04:08:40 am
...I don't know if this can be corrected but I guess it's probably from the HUD programming, not from vLSO.

This can be, and will be, corrected. You're right, this is the HUD programming and it's on my 'to-do' list.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on April 15, 2013, 04:24:22 am
I have the Log Book showing the SimConnect, FSX, On-screen messages and Manual Ball all showing green but no one talks to me.  I have Sound, SeanHand, vLSO (application) and vLSO.cfg all in the vLSO folder, is this right?  
Seems correct. vLSO will talk to you when your gears lowered and you're abeam or in the groove. Also, in CASE III, you will hear mile calls (from 9 to 1) when behind the boat.

I also have the FCLP tab active; have flown over Coupeville but do not see the "You are in Coupeville area" as shown on p10 of the manual.

I am using the Coupeville daylight Mission which loads properly and shows the IFLOLS.  I take it Coupeville does not have an ILS, just a DME so the brilliant ILOLS gauge doesn't work.

I tried flying round both Coupeville and El Centro but neither seemed to work.  I have vLSO Options showing in the Add-Ons tab but when I click on that nothing happens.
Make sure you have the latest FCLP pack 3 properly installed, which means that my previous Coupeville FCLP scenery from pack 2 must be uninstalled first. This new pack doesn't have vLSO compatible El Centro, sorry.

Finally, I am flying Dino Cattaeo's T-45, when I go into settings on the LogBook page which shows the palne selected is the F18 A - D but when I select the T-45, click Save, the page closes but when I re-open it the plane selected is the F18 A-D.
Well, this setting is for custom aircraft definition, this has nothing to do with an aircraft you're currently flying. Every time you open the settings window you'll see the first item highlited.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on April 15, 2013, 06:52:57 am
Johan...

...I don't know if this can be corrected but I guess it's probably from the HUD programming, not from vLSO.

This can be, and will be, corrected. You're right, this is the HUD programming and it's on my 'to-do' list.

Yeah, this would have to be Paddles work and giving fixes out for this, as the Enterprise SDB is a "whole 'nother ball of wax" for me. It's currently not a part of Rusev/Printz Combat HUD XML. Remember, as a refresher, the Combat HUD makes the ICLS/TCN possible with the Acceleration/AI/Javier carriers, thru XML programming. To make it work with the Enterprise SDB, one would have to figure out ICLS/TCN points, glideslopes, and other specifics and then include them into the Combat HUD XML. That's why the Enterprise works with the package gauges and NOT the Combat HUD.

BTW, hate the Enterprise gauges, they slowed my FSX down to under 10 FPS in carrier ops. I uninstalled it and haven't messed with it since.

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Tregarth on April 15, 2013, 06:40:11 pm
Dear Paddles,

Well, I have tried.  I have uninstalled all of the KNRA scenery and the missions and then reinstalled the scenery (not easy using Win 7) and then the missions.  The scenery works, the mission starts at KNUW with Nav 1 = 112.5.  I try new scenery out with my trusty Cessna; with vLSO running I saw a message saying the plane was not supported, which is correct.  I flew to KNRA and saw the additional runway markings, IFLOLS and the shack so all seems to be working properly.

I then used the mission to fly to the airfield using the T-45, a crap flight but nothing on vLSO i.e no voice, no log book entry despite gear down, flaps and air brakes extended.  I tried using a FSX Blue Angels F-18, a slightly better flight (I am learning) but still nothing on vLSO.  Also, when I look at add-Ons, I see FSUIPC, A2A, AIShips all of which are active.  vLSO Options shows but when I click on it nothing happens.

I then moved to Miramar, flew to a carrier using AICarriers and everything worked as advertised using the F-18.  Also, vLSO Options had a menu in it.  Brilliant!

Can't say the same for the pilot, I now have W/O in my log book.  (My first entry!)

Shame about El Centro not being included; I was hoping to polish my flying before moving to Coupeville.

Thank you again for a marvellous add-on,

Cheers,

Tregarth.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on April 15, 2013, 06:53:27 pm
Paddles,
Thanks for the update! regarding the FCLP missions, can you add the old LSO shack views to the mission (e.g. selectable view to watch FCLPs from the LSO PoV)? I enjoyed these view in your previous FCLP missions, but didn't see them available in the new ones.


Thanks!

GOONIE
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on April 15, 2013, 06:56:37 pm
Ok, will fix that
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on April 15, 2013, 07:01:49 pm
...I have uninstalled all of the KNRA scenery and the missions and then reinstalled the scenery (not easy using Win 7) and then the missions. 
May I have a screenshot of your KNRA_FCLP\scenery folder (in details view mode, not thumbnails)? Looks like something wrong with your setup, because vLSO doesn't recognize the scenery.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Tregarth on April 15, 2013, 08:08:33 pm
Thanks for your reply.

I have found the folder and opened it as shown below.  I have used Win Explorer to search the entire PC, the only references I can find to KNRA_FCLP are this folder and a file with the address C\Users\Clive\Desktop\Add On Scenery\KNRA_FCLP which is a TAG file.  (My C Drive contains Win 7 64 bit, my F Drive contains FSX.)

I had expected to see a KNRA folder in either my FSX or FSX\Scenery folder but there is not one there.  I have also looked for KNJK files but the only KNJK files are in F\FSX\Missions\Military\FCLP Part 1 and \...Part 2.  They are both PNG files.

I hope this helps you.

Clive
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on April 15, 2013, 09:11:36 pm
..............a file with the address C\Users\Clive\Desktop\Add On Scenery\KNRA_FCLP which is a TAG file.  (My C Drive contains Win 7 64 bit, my F Drive contains FSX.)

I had expected to see a KNRA folder in either my FSX or FSX\Scenery folder but there is not one there.  I have also looked for KNJK files but the only KNJK files are in F\FSX\Missions\Military\FCLP Part 1 and \...Part 2.  They are both PNG files..................

Hi Clive,

I'm thinking, the correct location for the add on scenery is FSX Drive\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Games\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\Addon Scenery\KNRA scenery folder. But, from the path you provided above, it looks like you have installed this in a folder on your desktop. I wonder, if that is so, how are you even able to see the new scenery.

Some piece is not fitting the larger puzzle here.

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Tregarth on April 15, 2013, 11:34:31 pm
Dear Mickey_Techy,

I could not agree with you more, but as I said I cannot find any KNRA (or KNJK) files on the PC.  It is the reason I looked for the KNJK files as well.  But as you can see from my Scenery Library both KNRA and KNJK are in the list.

Out of curiosity I have looked for another add-on scenery e.g. UK 2000's EGLL and that appears in F\FSX\UK2000 scenery.....  I have no understanding of how FSX works.

One point for you, I have been told by many people never to put the FSX program in the default Prog Files/MS Games folder.  That is why my FSX program is in drive roor directory i.e. F\FSX.

Thanks for your comments,

Clive
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on April 16, 2013, 04:27:29 am
Clive,
The program supposes that any FCLP sceneries are installed in the 'Addon Scenery' folder, which is not in your case. Please move the KNRA_FCLP folder to the 'Addon Scenery' and install the scenery as usual. This should work.

I'll have to correct the program to work with sceneries installed from other locations...

Brennan,
I've added two views to the missions so now you can enjoy these views again  :)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on April 16, 2013, 05:21:04 am
Hello Paddles,

I am not testing the missions but rather different fleets approaches. I have 4 AC fleets in the PNW between Comox, Vancouver, and Everett. The vLSO works great between the 4, switching from one AC to the other. The only drawback is the HUD readings. The "bug" and the distance to TCN is always to the nearest AC, not to the one I am selecting as my target when they are more than 10 miles apart.
Other than that....I have very happy landings.
Thank you,

Johan
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on April 16, 2013, 05:44:15 am
Johan,
I suppose all these carriers are Javier's CVN68/69? They all have the same 57X TCN channel, no way to change it...
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on April 16, 2013, 06:19:07 am
Johan,
I suppose all these carriers are Javier's CVN68/69? They all have the same 57X TCN channel, no way to change it...

Correct, all these are Javier's. No CVN65 or HMS Ark Royal in the mix in my PNW fleet configuration.
It is not a big deal. As soon as you get close enough to your target AC (10 miles or so), then all the needles come right, bug and TCN included. You have done a wonderful job.

Johan
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on April 16, 2013, 06:26:08 am
Glad you liked it. Enjoy and happy landings!  ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on April 16, 2013, 02:53:10 pm
I've added two views to the missions so now you can enjoy these views again  :)

Bravo Zulu!  8)

Thanks, Paddles
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Tregarth on April 16, 2013, 04:43:04 pm
Thank you all very much for your help.  Everything is working as advertised; it is amazingly good.

This is the first time I had added scenery manually to a 2 HD system, hopefully others will learn from my mistakes.

I have started 2 new posts:

Low Passes

TrackIR set up info

I hope they will be entertaining and helpful

Thanks again,

Clive
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on April 17, 2013, 05:32:20 am
Paddles,

Beta .7 is absolutely amazing!  I only flew a few passes, but the calls are now much more synced with the ball on the boat.  Some brief feedback:

1) Not a big deal, but I noticed that even without FSX running I have a GREEN Flight Simulator X indication from vLSO.  Might cause issues with folks trying to troubleshoot problems.
2) This is more FYI since I was too dumb to think to write down the error, but the first time I ran vLSO and flew a pass I got an error message after exiting from my flight.  The error appeared to be in Hex. Hasn't happened after that.  Anyone else experience this?
3)  The thing I was most excited about for this release (aside from correct G/S issues) was vLSO now grabbing VSI, AoA, and KIAS from each pass.  However, none of my passes have that info recorded. Not sure what is happening there but I'm guessing it might be something on my end.  Does vLSO need anything specific, i.e specific version of FSUIPC, or something of that nature?

Thanks for all the hard work you do man.  FSX Nav Av just keeps getting better and better!

Pyro
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on April 17, 2013, 06:35:55 am
...............but the first time I ran vLSO and flew a pass I got an error message after exiting from my flight.  The error appeared to be in Hex. Hasn't happened after that.  Anyone else experience this?................

Now that you bring it up Pyro, I experienced this also. Since it never happened after the first time, I didn't even take a notice of it, till you mentioned.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on April 17, 2013, 08:54:03 am
1) Not a big deal, but I noticed that even without FSX running I have a GREEN Flight Simulator X indication from vLSO.  Might cause issues with folks trying to troubleshoot problems.
Very strange... Normally, as soon as FSX quit, the program changes the FSX indication to RED. If it stays GREEN, then there's something wrong with SimConnect - the vLSO receives FSX events/notifications via SimConnect. On what OS are you running FSX, btw?

2) This is more FYI since I was too dumb to think to write down the error, but the first time I ran vLSO and flew a pass I got an error message after exiting from my flight.  The error appeared to be in Hex. Hasn't happened after that.  Anyone else experience this?
Please, make screenshots of any error messages popping up. This will help me to sort things out.

3)  The thing I was most excited about for this release (aside from correct G/S issues) was vLSO now grabbing VSI, AoA, and KIAS from each pass.  However, none of my passes have that info recorded. Not sure what is happening there but I'm guessing it might be something on my end.  Does vLSO need anything specific, i.e specific version of FSUIPC, or something of that nature?
Very strange again...  :) All passes recorded with vLSO 0.7 have VSI, AoA and KIAS info. When in the debrief window you hover the mouse pointer over the glidepath, the informer MUST show these data. The glidepath has width of 2 pixels, so you will be able to 'spot' any point on the glidepath.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on April 17, 2013, 07:28:03 pm
Paddles,

Running 64 bit Win7.  However, I solved SimConnect issue with a good old fashioned reboot of the PC.

Haven't had the error message since the first time I ran beta .7.  I'm guessing it won't happen again, but if it does, I'll grab a screenshot for you.

I see VSI, AoA, and KIAS info now.  I thought it was simply the info from touchdown, didn't realize it would give it from any given point on the debrief.  Guess I should RTFM first, sorry about that  :-[

.7 really is a fantastic program.  I'm not sure what else you plan to implement, but it would seem to me that most of the bugs have been worked out and that it is rapidly approaching the end of its beta stage  ;D  Thanks again!

Pyro
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on April 18, 2013, 01:31:37 am
v7 looks good just did a trap in a T45C with it.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: JamesChams on April 18, 2013, 10:01:54 am
Thank you, "Paddles" (the Dev. formerly known as "Fsxnavypilot") ;D
Will download and try it out shortly.  ;)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on April 19, 2013, 12:41:57 am
Ok paddles I spawned the tanker and it was set to VRS Superhornet, a few problems 1 the tanker had wrong load out and 2 it was flying weird yawing left to right. I think its time for you to have a talk with VRS maybe as I know that the Tacpac tanker spawned is what you really want to spawn. Thing I like though is you can in vLSO select which aircraft skin the tanker is going to fly with.(I'm going to add that request actually as its a very good option).
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on April 19, 2013, 04:49:29 am
... it was flying weird yawing left to right.

When working on the tanker feature I've noticed some AC have yawing/banking, some fly steady. The most steady is the S3-B. As soon as the tanker spawns it starts flying as an AI aircraft along 4 waypoints. From now on it's movement is under FSX control, so perhaps there's something in FSX engine which makes some aircrfat fly weird in AI mode.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: ctec1 on April 20, 2013, 03:48:10 pm
Paddles,

I made a screenshot of an error I'm getting at startup of vLSO. I'm using Win 7 64bit and P3D. The last few versions of vLSO have worked just fine and just now started getting this error after installing 0.7.0. BTW I also installed the hotfix exe. This may or may not be the same error that the guys mentioned above. I keep getting the error even after the first run of the program. After I clear the errors the program seems to function properly as seen in the log in the screenshot. Just keep getting the error at startup. One other thing I noticed is that it shows the error message several times. Sometimes only once or twice but on subsequent startups it may show that message up to 4 times. after they stop I clear them and everything goes as planned. Heres a link to the shot:

http://sbcglobalpwp.att.net/c/t/ctec1/ATT_Files/P3D/vLSO.jpg (http://sbcglobalpwp.att.net/c/t/ctec1/ATT_Files/P3D/vLSO.jpg)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: texxasal on April 20, 2013, 05:04:13 pm
... it was flying weird yawing left to right.

When working on the tanker feature I've noticed some AC have yawing/banking, some fly steady. The most steady is the S3-B. As soon as the tanker spawns it starts flying as an AI aircraft along 4 waypoints. From now on it's movement is under FSX control, so perhaps there's something in FSX engine which makes some aircrfat fly weird in AI mode.

I know, especially in the case of what was reported by SUBS17, the VRS Superbug for FSX does not support any functionality as an AI piloted aircraft. I reported this condition personally in February of 2012, and this has been documented, reported, asked and answered repeatedly on the VRS forums (as I'm sure SUBS17 is aware). I would also believe that there are many more aircraft in FSX, most probably those with accurate flight and control models, that don't "work" with AI pilots.

There's nothing you can "fix" with vLSO sir, it's a part of the FSX AI "pilot" engine.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on April 20, 2013, 06:17:13 pm
Paddles,

That was the same error I had.  Mine only occurred after my first trap, and when switching from FSX to the desktop.  2 error messages popped up, but unlike ctec, I haven't had them occur since then.

Pyro
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on April 21, 2013, 09:11:42 am
... it was flying weird yawing left to right.

When working on the tanker feature I've noticed some AC have yawing/banking, some fly steady. The most steady is the S3-B. As soon as the tanker spawns it starts flying as an AI aircraft along 4 waypoints. From now on it's movement is under FSX control, so perhaps there's something in FSX engine which makes some aircrfat fly weird in AI mode.

I wonder if VRS would be willing to allow you the input to spawn their AI tanker, BTW I think the load out/speed of that SH was the reason for its yawing.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: ctec1 on April 21, 2013, 04:25:07 pm
Paddles,

That was the same error I had.  Mine only occurred after my first trap, and when switching from FSX to the desktop.  2 error messages popped up, but unlike ctec, I haven't had them occur since then.

Pyro

Just an update to my previous post. Flew quite a bit yesterday and was getting that error message shown in my previous post everytime I ran vLSO. Shut down the puter last nite and after a restart this morning the error message has ceased. All seems fine at this point. Seems like a restart after the original install fixed the issue. Hope this info helps.

Mark
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on April 23, 2013, 01:58:23 pm
Ok, guys
Here's a modified HUD for the Sludge with CVN65 support added and GS set to 4.12.

Currently supported carriers/freqs:

CVN68 Accel - 111.00 / 47X
CVN68 Javier - 112.00 / 57X
CVN65 - 114.00 / 87X.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on April 23, 2013, 03:27:54 pm
Ok, guys
Here's a modified HUD for the Sludge with CVN65 support added and GS set to 4.12.

Currently supported carriers/freqs:

CVN68 Accel - 111.00 / 47X
CVN68 Javier - 112.00 / 57X
CVN65 - 114.00 / 87X.

Perfect! I will try tonight.
Thanks Paddles.

Johan
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on April 24, 2013, 02:50:03 am
Ok, guys
Here's a modified HUD for the Sludge with CVN65 support added and GS set to 4.12.

Currently supported carriers/freqs:

CVN68 Accel - 111.00 / 47X
CVN68 Javier - 112.00 / 57X
CVN65 - 114.00 / 87X.

Hi Paddles,

First impressions are really good with the new CVN65 support.
A couple of points:
1-I have a flickering number on my HUD, 3D and 2D. See pictures attached and number in cloud. It varies very rapidly from 12 to 176 or so.
2-the IFLOLS gauge doesn't work on CVN65.
gauge00=Avionics\IFLOLS!IFLOLS.xml, 150, 580, 150, 65D
Other than that, the vLSO calls are good.
Great work,

Johan
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on April 24, 2013, 04:09:58 am
Sorry, that was my fault - some debug code remained in a final version.
Now it's cleaned and the IFLOLS gauge tuned to CVN65 also.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on April 24, 2013, 07:01:31 am
Sorry, that was my fault - some debug code remained in a final version.
Now it's cleaned and the IFLOLS gauge tuned to CVN65 also.

Thank you, Thank you, it works very well now. CVN65 is operational.

Johan
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: texxasal on April 25, 2013, 09:46:46 am
A Question about adding/deleting carriers.
How can we add/delete carrier configurations from vLSO?
I have repaints of Javier's Nimitz/Ike in empty deck configuration for the rest of the carriers in the Nimitz Class.
Once I install them into FSX simobjects>boats>USS_Nimitz, they show up just fine, and are completely usable (TCN/ILS/JBD/Cat/Arrest, etc.), except by vLSO.
 .
What must I do to get the vLSO to "recognize" the other carriers?

I am willing to remove some of the current optional Nimitz configurations (T-45, Crowded deck, etc.)

the following URL points to a mediafire repository for the repaints:

http://www.mediafire.com/?c8tuuq2gpy304ut (http://www.mediafire.com/?c8tuuq2gpy304ut)

Thanks
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: JamesChams on April 25, 2013, 10:02:22 am
@Paddles
A Question about adding/deleting carriers.
How can we add/delete carrier configurations from vLSO? ....
What must I do to get the vLSO to "recognize" the other carriers?
I just tried using vLSO v0.7.0.1 with Sylvian & Team's RFN PAN Charles De Gaulle v1.0 with "NO JOY" ...  Could you make that customizable in the next version as well?  Thanks!  :D

@texxasal
Quote
...the following URL points to a mediafire repository for the repaints:
http://www.mediafire.com/?c8tuuq2gpy304ut (http://www.mediafire.com/?c8tuuq2gpy304ut)
Thanks for the free repaints. ;)

FYI: I worked out the TacPack Managers configuration for RFN PAN Charles De Gaulle v1.0 & will post it onto VRS' site shortly.
EDIT: here they are:-  http://forums.vrsimulations.com/forums/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=11477&p=78026#p78026
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on April 25, 2013, 10:28:39 am
...............I just tried using vLSO v0.7.0.1 .....................

JamesChams,

Is that a typo, or, is there another version released. I'm still using v0.7.0.0b and thought, that was the last version released.

Where could you obtain the updated version from?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: JamesChams on April 25, 2013, 11:09:41 am
...............I just tried using vLSO v0.7.0.1 .....................

JamesChams,

Is that a typo, or, is there another version released. I'm still using v0.7.0.0b and thought, that was the last version released.

Where could you obtain the updated version from?
Not a typo, you can get it here: http://vlso.blogspot.com.au/2013/04/vlso-07-news-fclp.html
(Look on the right side of the page).
 ;)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on April 25, 2013, 01:50:43 pm
.........Not a typo, you can get it here.......

Ow man!

Thanks James.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on April 30, 2013, 06:53:05 pm
Paddles...
When working on the tanker feature I've noticed some AC have yawing/banking, some fly steady. The most steady is the S3-B. As soon as the tanker spawns it starts flying as an AI aircraft along 4 waypoints. From now on it's movement is under FSX control, so perhaps there's something in FSX engine which makes some aircrfat fly weird in AI mode.

Yeah, there is something odd about the minor "ducking and weaving" of AI Traffic during point-to-point navigation. If you wanna see the same thing, just load up the my KC-135 KSAN to KLAS AI track and it does some easy angle-of-bank light "jinking", if you will, and I have no idea about the "why".

Also, on another front, thanks for those fixes on the Enterprise ICLS/TACAN and the IFLOLS, as I've implemented those into the current Sludge and all future releases will have those included.

Fellas...
As a result of Paddles work on the Enterprise/Combat HUD fix, I was tinkering with the HUD doing integration the other night and got caught up making the HUD fonts bigger and spaced a little wider. Also, more realistic positions (ie. HUD clock intersects on the great circle steering ring). Still a Work-In-Progress (WIP) but it's coming along nicely. Because of the brightness and size change, I might go back to the previous HUD glass texture (extreme clear), so there's no disparity between the two brightness levels where the glass texture changes on the current HUD Glass texture.

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on April 30, 2013, 07:09:22 pm
Sounds good Sludge, post some pics when you are ready to share!

GOONIE
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on May 01, 2013, 02:06:54 am
If you wanna see the same thing, just load up the my KC-135 KSAN to KLAS AI track and it does some easy angle-of-bank light "jinking", if you will, and I have no idea about the "why".

Hello Sludge,

Yes, I am using your tanker all the time, and I always wondered about this tanker behavior...It is systematic, therefore predictable, so when I tank behind, I just follow this little "dance" that takes place at regular intervals.
I haven't had time to try your new F/A-18 release yet, but I will, it's on my list.
Thanks as always,

Johan
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Sludge on May 01, 2013, 07:48:52 am
Johan...

Ya, I did the same thing, I'd get used to the wide turns as I'm doing ARs (air refuelings) on the way to Vegas after doing some cats/traps with the carrier boat traffic. It worked as well as could be expected for a tanker that "jinks" along the way.

Wish I actually had an answer as to WHY it does this, but if I'm not mistaken, I think ALL FSX AI Traffic does this? I know that before I made that KSAN-KLAS Tanker AI Route, I would just pull up behind the nearest 737 or whatever and it would do the same thing while I was pulling "virtual gas" from it.

Anyway, hopefully someone here can dig and find out why FSX AI Traffic feels the need to jink as it navigates from point to point. And, whenever you can use the new Sludge, just let me know what you think. Remember to include the HotFix as well, as it remedies some known issues that I haven't really solved yet.

Later
Sludge
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: texxasal on May 04, 2013, 03:01:11 am
A Question about adding/deleting carriers.
How can we add/delete carrier configurations from vLSO?
I have repaints of Javier's Nimitz/Ike in empty deck configuration for the rest of the carriers in the Nimitz Class.
Once I install them into FSX simobjects>boats>USS_Nimitz, they show up just fine, and are completely usable (TCN/ILS/JBD/Cat/Arrest, etc.), except by vLSO.
 .
What must I do to get the vLSO to "recognize" the other carriers?

I am willing to remove some of the current optional Nimitz configurations (T-45, Crowded deck, etc.)

the following URL points to a mediafire repository for the repaints:

http://www.mediafire.com/?c8tuuq2gpy304ut (http://www.mediafire.com/?c8tuuq2gpy304ut)

Thanks

I'm not certain of the protocol here, so am replying to this thread in order to obtain a response from the developer.

Thanks for your response.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on May 04, 2013, 01:28:07 pm
First of all, my apologies for the delay...  :(

How can we add/delete carrier configurations from vLSO?
...
What must I do to get the vLSO to "recognize" the other carriers?

Unfortunately, a user can not add or delete a carrier. All carriers that the program 'recognizes' are hardcoded because of various technical limitations.
Anyways, the carriers in question are now supported by the program, as these are merely repaints of the Javier's Nimitz.
You can download the 0.7.0.2 beta using links either from the post #1 or my blog.

Happy landings!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: texxasal on May 05, 2013, 02:45:42 pm
First of all, my apologies for the delay...  :(

How can we add/delete carrier configurations from vLSO?
...
What must I do to get the vLSO to "recognize" the other carriers?

Unfortunately, a user can not add or delete a carrier. All carriers that the program 'recognizes' are hardcoded because of various technical limitations.
Anyways, the carriers in question are now supported by the program, as these are merely repaints of the Javier's Nimitz.
You can download the 0.7.0.2 beta using links either from the post #1 or my blog.

Happy landings!

Paddles,

No problem sir,  I'm grateful for your efforts on our behalf.

Carrier repaints now being recognized, and tracked just fine.

At the risk of being a total "troll" and PITA, is there some way we can add FCLP locations? The only reason I'm asking is that are literally about a hundred of them around the US and, in the case of Coupeville, the scenery/runway supplied doesn't match that which folks already have installed (in my case I use Mega Scenery Earth which is a faithful representation from Google Earth sources).


Anyway, thanks again for a great product.  It's as significant an addition as Javier's carriers.

Bravo Zulu.

Al :)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on May 06, 2013, 04:07:30 am
'texxasal' back on page 46 of this now very long thread 'fsxnp' now 'Paddles' mentions this:

"Oops, I forgot to mention - a new FCLP pack 3 is available here http://www1.datafilehost.com/d/6971e06d.

More vLSO compatible FCLP locations to come..."

Also earlier elsewhere on this thread (or here: http://vlso.blogspot.com.au/2013/03/vlso-wip-update.html ) he mentions why only Coupeville was available (I'll find that info).

"FSXNavyPilotMarch 23, 2013 at 10:32 AM
Spaz,
NOLF Choctaw is probably the most scenic, but in FSX its runway elevation is somehow 356', not 102' as in real life, which would require additional work to fix that glitch. There is a good FSX scenery by Brandon Thetford with a nice photoscenery, by the way. But there's no authentic carrier box (with night lighting) and a Mk14 IFLOLS. I don't think that 'tweaking' Brandon's work would be a great idea, so if I decided to create my own scenery, I'd have to start from scratch. No big deal, though. Just a matter of time...
By the way, NALF Fentress' runway elevation is 16' both in FSX and in reality. ;-)"

Anyway I'll guess 'Paddles' will be here soon to explain further if the earlier explanation cannot be found.... YAY Paddles! :D

Probably this info (about why few FCLP locations are available) is on the vLSO website:

http://vlso.blogspot.com.au/2013/05/more-fclp-locations-to-come.html

"Sunday, May 5, 2013 More FCLP locations to come
Well, at last I dusted off my trusty Gmax and other modeling stuff and started working on a new FCLP location - NALF Fentress. This time I'm going to make usable both runways at Fentress. This means there will be two IFLOLS, two LSO shacks, two carrier boxes with lighting and two abeam lights. Oh, and two wind socks, of course! ))) So, you will be able to choose a runway to bounce depending on winds..."
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on May 06, 2013, 02:08:20 pm
... is there some way we can add FCLP locations?
No way, sorry. This requires some specific work on making a scenery vLSO-compatible.

... that are literally about a hundred of them around the US and, in the case of Coupeville, the scenery/runway supplied doesn't match that which folks already have installed (in my case I use Mega Scenery Earth which is a faithful representation from Google Earth sources).
Al, it appears that the runway angle of my KNRA scenery differs from the real one by 3 (or so) degrees. When working on the scenery my biggest concern was the wrong FSX KNRA placement, which is shown in yellow on the picture. And at that time I thought its angle was correct, so I just moved the runway without changing the angle. I was wrong!  ;D
Well, I will have to rebuild my KNRA scenery once again... Can you show me how much this scenery differs from Mega Scenery Earth?

BTW, I had a word with Brandon and we'll work on making his Choctaw and Joe Williams FCLP sceneries vLSO compatible.

[Update]
Changed the scenery. There was the 4-degree difference between the real and FSX runways, it's been fixed and the next KNRA version will be free of this glitch.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on May 09, 2013, 09:31:54 am
Thanks 'Paddles' - you are really up to speed here.  ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Letourn on May 17, 2013, 09:20:19 pm
Thanks Paddles for the latest new release nice new options in it.

I was wondering if one of the futures options can include a vlso-FCLP  for Marines F-35B and Av-8B.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on May 17, 2013, 10:52:39 pm
'Letourn' do you happen to know what the FCLP criteria are for an F-35B/AV-8B please? I will go look myself. It never occurred to me to ask what these parameters might be. Thanks.

Good story (but no details) about Desert FCLP here: http://www.fencecheck.com/content/index.php?title=Desert_Carrier

AV-8B NATOPS is available for free online (I'll post link soon) which describes with diagrams and text the basic landing approach (there are several).

http://info.publicintelligence.net/AV-8B-000.pdf (33Mb) NATOPS FLIGHT MANUAL NAVY MODEL AV--8B/TAV--8B
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on May 18, 2013, 03:31:20 am
Naval Aviation News May–June 2002 (There are other stories out there - easy for me to find in my PDF - but none really describe what the LSO does at all.)

http://www.history.navy.mil/nan/backissues/2000s/2002/mj02/harrier.pdf (0.5Mb)

MARINE CORPS HARRIERS: EXPEDITIONARY FIREPOWER FROM THE SEA Story and photos by Rick Llinares

"...In a typical daytime approach and landing in the AV-8B, Harrier pilots follow a sequence during the landing process that is not unlike that of their Navy brethren on the carrier. The primary difference is that there is one additional control lever, and the intent is to “stop and land” rather than “land and stop.” The ability to stop and land provides first-pass boarding rates near 100 percent and allows the routine use of night-vision goggles for night recoveries.

Former VMA-542 skipper Lt. Col. Eric VanCamp described the steps a Harrier pilot goes through to land aboard ship: “The AV-8B pilot approaches the ship at 800 feet and 350 knots. Passing close up the right side of the ship, the pilot extends roughly 10 seconds and snaps the stick to the left, rolling the jet into a 4- to 6-G turn. Simultaneously, the pilot pulls the throttle to idle with the left hand and then moves the exhaust nozzle lever to the 60-degree position while easing off the turn.

“Rolling wings level on the downwind leg (opposite direction of initial heading), the pilot descends to 600 feet above ground level. As the aircraft decelerates through 300 knots, the pilot moves the flap switch to the short-takeoff-and-landing position, which causes the flaps to automatically program with nozzle position once the airspeed goes below 165 knots. The pilot extends the landing gear at 250 knots or less, and adds power sufficient to maintain on-speed flight at about 110 knots.

“The engine water injection switch is then moved to the landing position allowing for added thrust if needed. During takeoffs and landings, water can be injected into the turbine section of the AV-8B’s engine to provide an additional 1,500 pounds of thrust if required.

“Continuing the turn, the pilot descends to 450 to 500 feet above ground level behind the ship—referred to as ‘rolling into the groove’—on a line running up the left side of the ship until the jet is at 300 feet above the water. The pilot makes a ‘hover-stop’ call to the landing signal officer [LSO], who helps talk the pilot down to a safe landing. At this point, the pilot smoothly slides the nozzle lever to hover-stop. This moves the nozzles 90 degrees pointing downward. The pilot then adds power as necessary to maintain glideslope position as indicated on the tower’s optical landing system. The pilot controls the deceleration rate by slightly adjusting the attitude of the Harrier’s nose. The jet is now alongside the intended point of landing, a mere 120 feet over the water and just 60 feet above the deck of the ship. The LSO says ‘clear to cross’ and the pilot moves the jet sideways to a hover over the designated spot. Once stabilized in the hover, the LSO clears the pilot to land and the pilot eases gently down and chops the throttles to idle. From this point the nozzles are moved to aft and the jet taxies as directed by the flight director.”

Sounds easy, right!..."
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on May 18, 2013, 08:01:13 am
I was wondering if one of the futures options can include a vlso-FCLP  for Marines F-35B and Av-8B.

Are there any LHD (VSTOL capable) ships with working OLS for FSX?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Letourn on May 18, 2013, 04:16:18 pm
Spaz: I have some other infos that i will be able to send you when i get home. But Basically you already have found everything and i am sure that it is so easy to do the landing   ;)

Paddles: There is no LHA (AJ WEbber Freeware)  or LHD (Aerosoft and Abacus) that i am aware with an OLS working. And i am not aware of an FCLP scenery that have it also. But maybe in your next FCLP scenery you can pick Bogue Airfield where Marine F/A-18 and AV-8B are doing FCLP. You can probably use what you have
Since the glideslope is 3deg if i remembered right. I will post the Case 1 when i get home.

It might also be too much work for and i will understand not doing so.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on May 18, 2013, 08:47:59 pm
An example of how helicopters are required to approach and what devices they use (which in some cases are the same or similar to what the AV-8B uses). However I believe specific F-35B approach devices will be used in future (likely similar to what we see here though).

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/1-564/CH5.HTM

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/1-564/Image103.gif

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/1-564/Image104.gif

OVERLY large images above now attached instead....
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on May 18, 2013, 08:56:14 pm
Because the graphics above are so large I'll start another reply. Go here for this graphic below: http://edocs.nps.edu/dodpubs/topic/jointpubs/JP3/JP3_04.1_930628.pdf
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on May 18, 2013, 09:06:09 pm
This PDF is no longer available here: http://www.robertheffley.com/docs/CV_environ/00-80T-106%20-%20LHA%20LHD%20Manual.pdf The first graphic is from this PDF.

Rather than post what is already contained in my PDFs, here is a link to what might be in future for CVF and F-35Bs for example (as well as helos). Also CVF will use the Bedford Array, especially for their SRVLs Shipborne Rolling Vertical Landing approaches. What I will do is make a specific PDF with relevant pages and make it available online.

http://www.agiltd.co.uk/visual_landing_aids/carrier.php
&
www.uscg.mil/directives/cim/3000-3999/CIM_3710_2E.pdf

THIS HELIVAS brochure displays the range of approach aid devices for both single deck ships and CVF envisaged:

http://www.agiltd.co.uk/visual_landing_aids/pdfs/Visual-Landing-Aids.pdf (1.7Mb)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on May 18, 2013, 11:23:06 pm
A lot of good AV-8B info in this PDF  (no longer available at link but may be found elsewhere - I'll check):

NAVAIR 00-80T-111 V/STOL SHIPBOARD AND LANDING SIGNAL OFFICER NATOPS MANUAL 01 JULY 2004

http://www.robertheffley.com/docs/CV_environ/00-80T-111%20-%20VSTOL%20Shipboard%20and%20LSO%20Manual.pdf

Some relevant pages from this manual are attached.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Letourn on May 19, 2013, 02:38:03 am
Spaz you are faster than my car ;) Here is the Case 1. Spaz look into your PM
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on May 20, 2013, 05:50:13 am
Letourn, that's interesting. It's technically possible to implement vertical landing procedures and all that stuff. I mean shore training facilities only, like deck paintings, a tower mockup with landing lights etc. But, given the fact that there are no actual FSX LHA/LHD ships with working OLS, I see no point in training ashore in an almost authentic environment and then landing on ship without any OLS lights... The only OLS in FSX is a hardcoded FLOLS, which we can't modify or tweak in any ways (how I wish I could do that).  :(
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on May 24, 2013, 01:58:59 am
Some interesting stuff here regarding tankers:

http://forums.vrsimulations.com/forums/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=11621
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on May 25, 2013, 06:08:27 pm
Some NOLF Coupeville WIP news http://vlso.blogspot.ru/2013/05/nolf-coupeville-renewal.html
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Herbie on May 26, 2013, 01:22:02 am
Hello Paddles!
This looks very nice, thank you for all your work you did. I used your first work where the virtual carrier-deck was at the right side off the runway, never know this was wrong. Felt a little funny at take-off at night trapping. Big thanks to you. Herb
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: tgiesige on June 23, 2013, 01:59:42 am
Have tried to get this to run on my win 7 machine and a friends. Not able to hear anything and does not write LSO logbook at all. get a greenbar at top of screen indicating its working, tells me what wire caught and all, but no sound or write to the logbook. Any help much appreciated !
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: tgiesige on June 23, 2013, 03:36:22 am
That it does, I can play all the sound files. Just not with vlso and vlso does not write anything viewable in the logbook.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: tgiesige on June 24, 2013, 12:53:55 am
Installed as admin in C:\vLSO  and UAC off, kept vlso folder structure intact, audio set, gave it every permission available.

Put in File 13 with the last 4 or 5 versions. I would rather pay for one that works than deal with that.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Letourn on June 24, 2013, 07:37:01 am
I been having fun with vLSO and the tankers all evening Thanks again Paddles!!

Using the S-3B and KA-6D i tought that it might be fun to have a more modern tanker then I remembered that the F/A-18F from Team SF KBT had a model tanker for MP. So i finally found it but no luck it does not deploy the hose automatically or have a fix model. I found this it the Readme

-----Inflight refuel tank : (F type only)
Though this is not an animation, we have added a retractable refuel hose.

To use this feature,  at ALT 10,000 - 25,000 press "L" to turn off the lights and then press
the Panel Light inside the VC to activate the refuel hose(other switches can be ON or OFF).-----

Paddles do you think you can do some magic again after doing it with the Iris S-3B :)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on June 24, 2013, 11:39:32 pm
What needs to be done is some sort of agreement between the guys who make these addons and makers of vLSO and Tacpac so that one standard command makes the hose probe extend and retract as an AI in both MP and SP. In that way such mods will work without to many issues for people to install them or mod makers/addon makers can easily allow them to work with their mods. ;)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Orion on June 25, 2013, 12:42:34 am
The hose/boom/drouge animation is model specific.  FSX doesn't have a single variable dedicated to the state of a refueling hose animation, so aircraft modelers choose their own.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on June 25, 2013, 01:23:43 am
'LeTourn' you have linked to a conventional LSO NATOPS manual PDF. My link was to a V/STOL version of such a manual. I'll look again for V/STOL version.

Here is the entire PDF 148 pages dated 2004 attached.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Letourn on June 25, 2013, 01:56:08 am
Yes Sorry it wa too late last night i guess.

Thanks Spaz but i already have it was just looking to find a public download link for everyone else
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Herbie on June 25, 2013, 04:17:22 am
Installed as admin in C:\vLSO  and UAC off, kept vlso folder structure intact, audio set, gave it every permission available.

Put in File 13 with the last 4 or 5 versions. I would rather pay for one that works than deal with that.
What you mean File 13? From where did you got the installer? Where is your vLSO.exe located? Nobody here had any serious problem. It is your set-up somewhere wrong. Payware got screwed-up too when installed the wrong way. Here is a answer from before, So read it very careful:

Regarding your LSO sound issue, first do you have the on screen messages checked, and do you see the LSO text messages on the top of the screen ? Second, I would move the entire vLSO folder, which contains the vLSO.exe (this is important) and sound folder (as well as other files), from FSX to  your desktop. If you run the vLSO.exe file directly from the main vLSO folder the sounds should work. I moved the vLSO.exe out of the folder at first, and had no sounds until I moved it back to the main folder. The only other thing I can think of, is you might want to check your sound settings in FSX, make sure "voices" volume is set to high.---------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on June 25, 2013, 07:53:37 am
The hose/boom/drouge animation is model specific.  FSX doesn't have a single variable dedicated to the state of a refueling hose animation, so aircraft modelers choose their own.

It makes sense for them all to use the one then its easier for them to be used by programs like vLSO.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: tgiesige on June 26, 2013, 12:42:50 am
Installed as admin in C:\vLSO  and UAC off, kept vlso folder structure intact, audio set, gave it every permission available.

Put in File 13 with the last 4 or 5 versions. I would rather pay for one that works than deal with that.
What you mean File 13? From where did you got the installer? Where is your vLSO.exe located? Nobody here had any serious problem. It is your set-up somewhere wrong. Payware got screwed-up too when installed the wrong way. Here is a answer from before, So read it very careful:

Regarding your LSO sound issue, first do you have the on screen messages checked, and do you see the LSO text messages on the top of the screen ? Second, I would move the entire vLSO folder, which contains the vLSO.exe (this is important) and sound folder (as well as other files), from FSX to  your desktop. If you run the vLSO.exe file directly from the main vLSO folder the sounds should work. I moved the vLSO.exe out of the folder at first, and had no sounds until I moved it back to the main folder. The only other thing I can think of, is you might want to check your sound settings in FSX, make sure "voices" volume is set to high.---------------------------------------------------------------------


File 13 = means trashed
As I stated previously ; vlso is installed in root of C: drive in vLSO folder and vlso executable copied to desktop. Per your statement: ( Second, I would move the entire vLSO folder, which contains the vLSO.exe (this is important) and sound folder (as well as other files), from FSX to  your desktop )
vLSO was never installed in FSX !! It is installed just as the PDF instructions apply ! My sound settings for voice is checked and high in FSX.
I get all the on screen messages from vLSO and what wire I trap ! I never hear any vLSO talk ! And it never writes anything to the LSO logbook after successful traps !
It is not my installation. Not one person in our group can get it to work ! I do know this version has no logbook.dat file in it or any text file.
and this version came from : http://vlso.blogspot.com/
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on June 26, 2013, 07:37:44 am
Guys,
Another beta is ready to test (read here (http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=4915.msg45464#msg45464)), as well as NALF Fentress (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3pFCe8B4_FGSlR3ekJUMk1WRDg/edit?usp=sharing) photoreal scenery, compatible with the new vLSO beta (multiple FCLP runways)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: tgiesige on June 26, 2013, 11:11:37 pm
Question:Did you installed vLSO beta .v 0.7.0.2.(Full) May 4. 2013? Do you have those files in your installation: See screenshot 03? If not, Your install is wrong, missing files. Herb


vLSO beta .v 0.7.0.2.(Full) May 4. 2013 is what is installed
two files are missing Logbook.dat & vLSO.exeBAK
no matter how many times I download it, they are not included in the zip
the latest beta puts a Logbook.dat file in but still same troubles
So how to correct missing files?

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: tgiesige on June 27, 2013, 02:51:23 am
I have done all that several times over! I have been following this on the VRS forums also. well known issue with this program and Win7  64bit
I and many others same issues.

Well now I am getting all the sounds working but still no write to the logbook for debrief
no reason as to why sounds started working, they just did.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on June 27, 2013, 04:01:00 am
My apologies, I forgot to include sounds to the package. Corrected. Just redownload it.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: tgiesige on June 27, 2013, 02:17:16 pm
ok, did as you said. removed old vlso. downloaded new one and installed it and now again nothing works. Get green messages bar but no sound or write to logbook.
Also noticing some sort of access violation (Access violation at address 004B27A3 in module 'vLSO.exe'. read of address 052CA24C)
Simconnect,on screen messages and flight sim x are all green on Vlso
Let me know if ya need other screenshots
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on June 28, 2013, 04:33:26 am
tgiesige

I don't have a W7 64 + FSX installation in handy to try recreate your problem, and I can only guess what's wrong.
Ok, here's what I know:

What I still don't know is how do you fly an approach?
You never mentioned your pre-landing procedures and conditions. Are the landing gears extended before you start approaching?  The gears must be extended prior rolling into the groove. If not, vLSO won't monitor your approach, so no voices, no logbook records. Is this your case?

Perhaps, as a last resort, a complete FSX reinstall would help?...

The program designed so that it must work from any place/folder provided there are no OS access control or security issues.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: tgiesige on June 29, 2013, 01:51:35 am
carrier approach as per VRS manual
yes my gear is down prior to rolling into groove
No, reinstalling FSX is not an option. It is a fresh install on brand new high end PC.

(The program designed so that it must work from any place/folder provided there are no OS access control or security issues.)

Maybe so, other than win 7. I see over in the VRS forums where many have trouble making vLSO run. Even the Dev "Adiemus" stated he cannot get it to run.
Maybe because I fly the VRS super hornet and tacpack is why vLSO will not work. At any rate, I will not stoop down to the default FA-18 to get vLSO trying to work. That plane has no realism what so ever.
If and when you  ever get a version that is guaranteed to work on newer operating systems, I would be more than happy to pay for a copy of vLSO.
I believe a lot of people would pay to have your product if only it worked all the time on all systems.

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: texxasal on June 29, 2013, 05:34:02 am
Surely you jest.

"Work all the time on all systems" is absolutely, patently, and completely absurd on it's face.

Not even "Solitaire" works on all Windows computers, all the time.

As someone who has operated the VRS Superbug since day one of the FSX release, as well as being part of the original CLOSED BETA test group, I can assure you there really is no interface whatsoever between the two products. vLSO could care less what the vendor or aircraft it handles is about.

I have also been running vLSO since November of 2011(vLSO 2 Beta) without problem, and it continues to perform flawlessly to this day (vLSO_07100).

My system is a Windows7 Professional at current maintenance levels, with ATI video, and SoundBlaster audio cards.

If it doesn't it work on your system: "IT's YOUR SYSTEM".

And, paying for it isn't going to fix the problem.

Al Rosenberg
WWW.CVW-2.ORG
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: mjrhealth on June 29, 2013, 05:50:57 am
Try removing or deleting the old log book. I had an issue with last release it did all funny things till i deleted teh log book, it created a new one and has being fine ever since.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Herbie on June 29, 2013, 05:54:46 am
carrier approach as per VRS manual
yes my gear is down prior to rolling into groove
No, reinstalling FSX is not an option. It is a fresh install on brand new high end PC.

(The program designed so that it must work from any place/folder provided there are no OS access control or security issues.)

Maybe so, other than win 7. I see over in the VRS forums where many have trouble making vLSO run. Even the Dev "Adiemus" stated he cannot get it to run.
Maybe because I fly the VRS super hornet and tacpack is why vLSO will not work. At any rate, I will not stoop down to the default FA-18 to get vLSO trying to work. That plane has no realism what so ever.
If and when you  ever get a version that is guaranteed to work on newer operating systems, I would be more than happy to pay for a copy of vLSO.
I believe a lot of people would pay to have your product if only it worked all the time on all systems.

Hello Friend!
You are Not fair with your statements, Carrier approach as per VRS Manual---vSLO was design for our F 18A Microsoft, Sludges, CS and Jimi's F-18's -- About newer Operating Systems: It work in Win7/32/64 also Win8. If you would posted in your first post, that you are flying the VRS super hornet, you would had the right answer right-away. Saving me alot of sreenshots to post. I also see: You did not read the vLSO Manual, It say here at the beginning: Compatibility Compatibility,Compatibility
vLSO requires FSX Acceleration, or FSX Gold installed. vLSO does not support FSX SP2, SP1 or the original FSX!
This program supports an AI carrier bundled with FSX Acceleration, as well as an excellent freeware AI carrier made by Javier Fernandez. More AI Nimitz-class carriers from great Lamont Clark’s AICarriers2 freeware add-on and Gary Taylor’s repaints for TacPack are supported too. Two more carriers, USS Enterprise and HMS Ark Royal, both in versions utilizing FSX FLOLS, are supported as well. Here's a list of all currently supported carriers and Planes-- snipped, the VRS super hornet is Not listed.. Herb
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on June 29, 2013, 06:52:14 am
..........................Maybe because I fly the VRS super hornet and tacpack is why vLSO will not work. .............

tgiesige,

I have been following your 'issues' on this thread. Like Al said, it's something peculiar to your system (and your friends, who are not able to get it to work).

I have been using Paddles work, since he wasn't even 'Paddles'. And vLSO has always worked as advertised. AND, with VRS SH/TP also. I understand from your posts, that it doesn't work for your other friends in your group also. I fly full time with one VM and part time with a couple others. Don't know of anyone in these groups, for whom this app doesn't work?

..........the VRS super hornet is Not listed..........

Herb, that is not entirely true.

I (and many others, trust me) have been using vLSO with VRS SH/TP. It works perfectly well.

Mickey
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on June 29, 2013, 08:57:27 am
tgiesige
I'd suggest you this:
1. Run the program with a 'log' option, just the same way as with the 'auto' option described in the manual.
2. Do a couple or more passes around the boat (or field) and quit the program.
3. Locate the 'vLSO_log.txt' file within the vLSO folder and send it to me (or attach to a message here at the forum).
I think this would help me to undestand what's wrong with your copy of vLSO.
Thanks
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: tgiesige on June 29, 2013, 10:17:15 am
My version of FSX Is FSX Gold edition. Herb
and also pasted right from vlso manual compatible:
Following carrier-capable aircraft are supported by default:
F/A-18A Hornet Acceleration, the Sludge and the FSXBA mods
F/A-18E Super Hornet VRS
T-45C Goshawk Dino Cattaneo
F-14D Tomcat (version 2) Dino Cattaneo
F-35C Lightning II Dino Cattaneo
A-4K Skyhawk KAHU
You can extend this list by adding other carrier-capable aircraft (see the Settings window chapter).

VRS manual is same as natops manual for carrier based landings as far as pattern and approach.

Run program with Log options ? a little vague. not sure what you want.
I have never seen a log.txt file ever in vLSO 's folder.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on June 29, 2013, 10:26:04 am
...................Run program with Log options ? a little vague. not sure what you want.
I have never seen a log.txt file ever in vLSO 's folder.

..............1. Run the program with a 'log' option, just the same way as with the 'auto' option described in the manual...............

He  couldn't be more clear, than this.

..............2. Do a couple or more passes around the boat (or field) and quit the program.............

This will ensure that the log file is written with necessary debug data.

..........................3. Locate the 'vLSO_log.txt' file within the vLSO folder and send it to me (or attach to a message here at the forum)................

Log file is NOT there by default. It will be "generated" IF you follow what is stated above.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: tgiesige on June 29, 2013, 11:50:59 am
ok, hope this helps. by adding the log options in the xml for some reason has made the sounds to work.
still not getting the "call the Ball" sound, but I am sure parameters must need adjusted for the VRS Hornet or maybe I am too high or low at 3/4 mile, but was able to generate a Log.txt I flew a straight out approach from 20 mile airport to carrier just to make sure all call sounds were there as they were, except for "call the ball" and which is like you said why it may not write to logbook for debriefing. So tiring, will play with it some more later. here is that text file.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on June 29, 2013, 08:04:39 pm
tgiesige,
Looks like you're too hight at the 3/4. What was your altitude when you got 'paddles contact'?
When flying a correct FSX carrier approach (even with the 4,12 glideslope), your altitude AMSL at the 3/4 should be below 400'. The program reserves additional 100' for your errors, and even if you're flying at high 400's you'll still be able to get a ball call. If any higher, no ball calls, no logbook records. Period.

By the way, you said that VRS manual is same as natops manual for carrier based landings as far as pattern and approach. Believe me or not, but my program is based only on NATOPS specs too.  ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: tgiesige on June 29, 2013, 11:58:48 pm
well today we are back to square one ( no sounds) and nothing has changed. I am attaching new log.txt
vLSO is also set to auto run with fsx. Don't understand why sounds work one time and not the next.
Restarted PC and no go either. I still see those access errors now and then too. :-\
where do I go from here?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: tgiesige on June 30, 2013, 02:40:31 am
After a complete reinstall again. Same ole same ole
attaching log.txt
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: tgiesige on July 01, 2013, 12:36:14 pm
ok gonna try and install in program files just for &%^$ and giggles and see what happens.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: tgiesige on July 01, 2013, 01:42:15 pm
I give up!  :(
Clean my registry and move on !
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: K6952 on August 22, 2013, 12:22:36 am
 I've been playing with 7.01b and have 1 observation and 1 question.

 Observation: The default IRIS S-3 tanker called out in the .ini file isn't a tanker. We herp-a-derped over why the drogue wouldn't deploy for an embarrassingly long time before realizing that. I'd recommend changing it to DSB S-3B Viking (VS-24_#1)

 Question: I tried to complete the CarQual option from the pulldown menu, but nothing happened once I was done. Is that feature just not supported yet, or am I doing something wrong? Please see attached greenie board. Passes #39 through #50 were completed in a Superbug after clicking this option. No waveoffs, bolters, or exiting the pattern.

 Great job!
-Rusty Rabbit
"Flaring to land is like squatting to pee!"
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on August 22, 2013, 10:28:21 am
Observation: Right, not all the S-3B versions have the drogue, only those with model=viking in the aircraft.cfg. I'll  specifically mention that in the manual.

Question: Any CQ options found on the vLSO add-on menu are just currently dummies, reserved for future use in upcoming versions.

Thanks!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: K6952 on August 22, 2013, 04:26:56 pm
Observation: Right, not all the S-3B versions have the drogue, only those with model=viking in the aircraft.cfg. I'll  specifically mention that in the manual.

Question: Any CQ options found on the vLSO add-on menu are just currently dummies, reserved for future use in upcoming versions.

Thanks!

 Paddles,
 Thanks for the speedy reply and clarification.
 I didn't explain the tanker situation clearly; the one that is referenced in the .ini file as the default tanker isn't actually a tanker.
 
 If that hasn't been remedied already, you'll probably want to correct it.

Best,
-Rusty Rabbit
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on December 17, 2013, 02:42:33 pm
A quick b0.7.1.2 WIP report http://vlso.blogspot.ru/2013/12/beta-0712-wip.html (http://vlso.blogspot.ru/2013/12/beta-0712-wip.html)  ;)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on December 17, 2013, 03:09:05 pm
Great news!!!! Looks like Christmas is coming early this year  ;D

Thanks for the WIP update, all great additions to an already amazing program. I look forward to testing out the next beta when ready.

GOONIE
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on December 17, 2013, 04:35:15 pm
Thank you for the update, Paddles.

Keenly look forward to it.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: dave76 on December 19, 2013, 01:47:56 am
thanks a lot paddles for the update, you guys really do an amazing job every time with vlso :) :)!!!!! even better
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on December 24, 2013, 08:01:41 am
The beta 0.7.1.2 is here (http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,4915.msg45464.html#msg45464)
Have fun and merry Christmas!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on December 24, 2013, 07:58:26 pm
Thanks Paddles, and Happy Holidays to you too. Remaining a big fan of your incredible work.

Johan
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on December 24, 2013, 09:34:28 pm
Awesome work Paddles.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on December 28, 2013, 09:15:14 pm
Bravo Zulu Serge!  8)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on January 05, 2014, 06:40:30 pm
Paddles,

Did some night traps last night, a couple questions.

1. Do you plan to add the Clara lineup call, or integrate with the Clara call? I see you have the "on centerline" audio files, but I only get "on glideslope" with the current Clara function. Is that as intended? Would be cool to get both calls, on glideslope, on centerline.

2. For some reason I no longer get the "paddles contact" calls at ~1nm, is that on purpose? Is that reserved for low viz ops? Are you going to add the "99 taxi light on" call too for low viz?

3. I really like the fresh LSO calls after each trap, however, sometimes when I manually call the ball I don't get the roger ball call from the vLSO. The debrief window shows I called the ball, ball balloon shown, and the LSO gives me other calls just not a roger ball. This only happened twice last night after six approaches. Not sure if this is just happening to me.

My buddy is sending me PLAT cam footage and audio from his cruise right now, should be able to add more variety to our growing inventory of LSO calls.

Goonie

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 06, 2014, 01:10:16 pm
Quote
1. Do you plan to add the Clara lineup call, or integrate with the Clara call?
If I have at least one 'Clara lineup' call sample, I'll add it.

Quote
I see you have the "on centerline" audio files, but I only get "on glideslope" with the current Clara function. Is that as intended? Would be cool to get both calls, on glideslope, on centerline.
My intention was to have these calls alternating when on glideslope and lined up, but something in the code doesn't want to work as intended  ;D

Quote
2. For some reason I no longer get the "paddles contact" calls at ~1nm, is that on purpose? Is that reserved for low viz ops?
Yes, this call is for lo-viz (and 'Clara'), so it is removed from .9 nm.

Quote
Are you going to add the "99 taxi light on" call too for low viz?
Yes, it is on my to-do list

Quote
3. I really like the fresh LSO calls after each trap, however, sometimes when I manually call the ball I don't get the roger ball call from the vLSO. The debrief window shows I called the ball, ball balloon shown, and the LSO gives me other calls just not a roger ball. This only happened twice last night after six approaches. Not sure if this is just happening to me.
Again, something in my code needs to be checked. I have also noticed this irregular 'Roger ball' absence, but thought this just happened to me  ::)

Quote
My buddy is sending me PLAT cam footage and audio from his cruise right now
Are you going to upload it to somewhere? Would be nice to have fresh video and audio...
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on January 06, 2014, 06:53:27 pm
Quote
1. Do you plan to add the Clara lineup call, or integrate with the Clara call?
If I have at least one 'Clara lineup' call sample, I'll add it.

I'll email you an audio file for "clara lineup", I have one.

Quote
I see you have the "on centerline" audio files, but I only get "on glideslope" with the current Clara function. Is that as intended? Would be cool to get both calls, on glideslope, on centerline.
My intention was to have these calls alternating when on glideslope and lined up, but something in the code doesn't want to work as intended  ;D

Great, understand it is a beta, just wanted to let you know. Really like this addition.

Quote
2. For some reason I no longer get the "paddles contact" calls at ~1nm, is that on purpose? Is that reserved for low viz ops?  Yes, this call is for lo-viz (and 'Clara'), so it is removed from .9 nm.

Roger that

Quote
Are you going to add the "99 taxi light on" call too for low viz?
Yes, it is on my to-do list

Roger

Quote
3. I really like the fresh LSO calls after each trap, however, sometimes when I manually call the ball I don't get the roger ball call from the vLSO. The debrief window shows I called the ball, ball balloon shown, and the LSO gives me other calls just not a roger ball. This only happened twice last night after six approaches. Not sure if this is just happening to me
Again, something in my code needs to be checked. I have also noticed this irregular 'Roger ball' absence, but thought this just happened to me  ::) 

Glad to hear I am not the only one, maybe has something to do with the vLSO getting fresh/new calls after each trap.

Quote
My buddy is sending me PLAT cam footage and audio from his cruise right now
Are you going to upload it to somewhere? Would be nice to have fresh video and audio...

Will see if I can post to youtube, or I can share the cut up audio files with you directly to distribute with your program 8)

GOONIE
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 07, 2014, 02:54:18 pm
I'll email you an audio file for "clara lineup", I have one.
Thanks! Got it. Added it. It works!  ;) By the way, during my 'Clara lineup' tests I scored (by chance) an OK3  ::)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on January 07, 2014, 04:04:41 pm
Thanks! Got it. Added it. It works!  ;) By the way, during my 'Clara lineup' tests I scored (by chance) an OK3  ::)

Maybe the LSO's were "CLARA" when grading your approach!  :D



Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 07, 2014, 04:47:45 pm
Not sure - someone kept repeating 'On glideslope... On glideslope...'  ;D

Ok, I have a question. What time to use for LIG (long in the groove) comments? I suppose the times may differ for various aircraft?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on January 07, 2014, 09:29:08 pm
Actually that was a pretty spot on approach! I would have given you an OK3 since you never saw the ball with the Clara call!

LIG I agree should be aircraft dependent (approach speed) and wind dependent, and apply only to CASE I recoveries. For the Hornet I thought the goal was ~18 seconds in the groove, assumes rolling into the groove at 3/4 of a mile. Is that right? So anything over 22 or 24 seconds could be LIG? Just a guess. Doubt the LSO watches the clock, but it is probably pretty apparent when you roll into the groove at over a mile distance, and take you sweet time to get to the ramp.

GOONIE
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on January 08, 2014, 08:15:28 pm
The times definitely vary by aircraft.  As per the NATOPS for the F-18C/D as well as the F-18E/F, groove times should be between 15 and 18 seconds.  Given the limitations of FSX however, I'm not sure that the 15-18 seconds in the groove will give pleasing results with vLSO...just my honest opinion.  I second Goonie...LIG after 22-24 seconds.  Most of my passes if I roll wings level into the groove just at 3/4 of a mile are somewhere between 20 and 22 seconds.  IRL it is my understanding that a lot of the more experienced guys are just past the 45 when calling the ball and actually don't roll into the groove until closer to 1/2 of a mile.  I believe there are some youtube videos that support this, I think from username Ian Schmidt.  I'm at work right now so I can't find the few specific instances I'm thinking of.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on January 08, 2014, 09:47:22 pm
Perhaps this is the video being referred to as the 21 second groove?

As an aside I was lucky enough to be able to use the mirror which allowed easy 'fly the ball' from just after the '180' as you americans say. Being with a bunch of old timers from the Sea Venom era initially our day carrier circuits were at 400 feet. Our low level day circuit at NAS Nowra was 300 feet (no lower - not viable) in the A4G Skyhawk. The Venom pilots were given assistance by their Observer in the right hand seat who called the airspeed at one knot intervals I believe, or repeated the same airspeed regularly, so that the Venom pilot could look out and not inside at the airspeed indicator (they had no aural or visual indication otherwise). Things were different in some UK RN Venoms I'm told, which apparently had an aural tone for being at optimum airspeed. Anyway I did not fly the Venom from HMAS Melbourne, only ashore at NAS Nowra, without an Observer, so that I had to look inside for airspeed - a real pain around base turn etc. What this bad view for the Venom pilot meant was that a short groove was ideal from a low circuit (reminiscent of the old prop days). However in this era of Venoms/Gannets there was no LSO aboard HMAS Melbourne. BLISS! ???  ;D

All our day circuits were done visually, even though we had TACAN it was not as accurate as the TACAN in use today. We were used to it so making the extra height caused quite a different picture downwind but of course we had a better slant view of the carrier also.

Long story short we flew these 400 foot day A4G carrier circuits, flying the ball as soon as we could see it in the mirror, consequently the groove length was short, not allowing too many pilot errors. It was quite an adjustment when the USN trained LSOs convinced our old timer CO to use the NATOPS 600 foot day carrier circuit height, usually meaning groove length longer. I cannot recall how long it was except we were expected to have tight circuits with short grooves. Anyway on with the show.... I'll make an excerpt of the groove to put online.

F/A-18 Super Hornet Carrier Flight (2012) Published on Jan 7, 2013  
Quote
"AIRBOYD: Courtesy Video Defense Media Activity - Navy | Produced by Petty Officer 2nd Class James Evans.
Lt. Michael Loringer, assigned to Strike Fighter Squadron 22, pilots an F/A-18F Super Hornet during a mission flown from the flight deck of the Nimitz class aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson. USS Carl Vinson and Carrier Air Wing 17 are deployed to the U.S. 5th Fleet area of responsibility."



JUST THE GROOVE FROM THE START....

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on January 08, 2014, 10:21:25 pm
Spaz,

That looked to me like Case II/III ops with that low cloud deck and rain, in which case groove time isn't a grading factor AFAIK.

The video I'm referring to actually shows the opposite, and extremely SHORT groove time.  It's HUD footage showing him just crossing the wake at 3/4 of a mile and rolling into the groove at about .5 or .6, which yields a much shorter groove time than 15 seconds.

EDIT: I rewatched the clip...not sure how I thought that could have been Case III.  Could still be Case II though.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on January 09, 2014, 01:03:11 am
Fair enough. It will be nice to see the short groove clip whenever it is found.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on January 09, 2014, 01:25:11 am
I found one example.  The footage is split into two segments unfortunately. First watch at about the 1:21 mark for a bit after crossing the wake, not in the groove yet, TCN distance shows .6 on the HUD already. Then some more footage from the same pass can be seen at about 1:43, settled in the groove, .5 on the HUD.  I'm sure you or someone might think "how do you know that's from the same trap?"  I'll concede that I am making assumptions, but they are based off of a few things: Max G load shown on the HUD for both clips is 6.3, carrier is on the same heading in both clips, and the time of day appears consistent.  Feel free to dispute my claim if you see anything that I am missing that indicates those are two separate traps.

Either way, enjoy the clip!

EDIT: Apparently I suck at HTML (not a big surprise to me) so here is the link:
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on January 09, 2014, 02:16:14 am
Your link is invalid. Is this to the world famous '$hitHotBreak' Video? Somehow this video is blocked. I have a copy so I'll look at the segments you describe. Already I have made a short clip from same video showing the control movements. Is this clip from the same video you look at (but we cannot see)?



EDIT Addition
'pyroperson87' has provided the direct link which will be encapsulated in "youtube" html brackets below:



Nope - does not work with standard youtube bracketed HTML - I have read this video is banned due to the songs perhaps - maybe the $shit bit? Dunno.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on January 09, 2014, 03:09:57 am
One and the same!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 09, 2014, 09:04:14 am
I think this is the video


My observations on this approach:

video 0:48, HUD time 07:41:05, speed 575 - carrier abeam, break begins
video 2:01, HUD time 07:41:36, speed 210, 1.2 nm - landing gears go down
video 2:30, 0.5 nm - wings level, on glideslope, on lineup
video 2:42 - touchdown and trap

So, it took him some 30 sec to bleed airspeed and to arrive to somewhere between the 180 and the 90 (I'd call it 120, according to HUD tape readouts). The actual groove time, if we only consider it starts when the plane is wing level, will be some 12 sec, which is very short.  8)

I'd grade it as a perfect pass, since there were no glideslope and lineup deviations and that was a good sample of an expeditious recovery.

PS. A good LSO reading (http://eaa650.blogspot.ru/2006/02/lsos-and-landing-t-sparks.html), by the way
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on January 09, 2014, 09:17:41 am
What a good video (understatement). I will guess the pilot is flying the ball during the turn and he is spot on (notwithstanding the camera position compared to his eyeball position). From long ago memory that would be about the time in the groove for an A4G flying the 'mirror' ball during the turn etc. By the end of a cruise if you are not nailing the day approaches - you should go home.  ::) ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on January 09, 2014, 04:48:45 pm
I've seen that clip before, it's definitely an interesting one.  Note that he has the 9 Mike still selected until it is overridden by the gear going down.  Also, I noted something I have never seen before...At about 2:04 a solid dot appears on the lower left of the HUD and then by 2:07 it's gone.  It doesn't look like a waypoint indicator, but it definitely looks ground stabilized...anyone know what it is? 

It's also interesting to see the inaccuracies of the needles in close and at the ramp, and particularly how different they are on each ship.  Take note of the needles at 0.1 AD...glideslope needle goes HIGH and lineup needles goes LEFT.  Now compare that to the HUD footage from $hit Hot Break.  At 0.1 the glideslope needle goes LOW and lineup needle stays nearly dead center on the velocity vector.  Pretty significant difference.

And definitely a short groove time.  It is my understanding that the ball is visible and useable (i.e. shows accurate g/s info) from about the 130 which is how these guys are rolling into the groove already at 1/2 of a mile.

Are there any plans to incorporate this into vLSO?  I'm not sure of the programming hurdles you would have to get past in order to get vLSO NOT to wave you off or give you a poor grade if you aren't already on centerline by the time you call the ball.  Not that it matters if it WERE a part of vLSO...I can barely get it right when I roll into the groove at .8!  :D ::)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 09, 2014, 05:24:27 pm
Are there any plans to incorporate this into vLSO? 
Yes, it's already on my to-do list, by Goonie's request
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on January 09, 2014, 06:47:21 pm

PS. A good LSO reading (http://eaa650.blogspot.ru/2006/02/lsos-and-landing-t-sparks.html), by the way

Nice find, and a great read.

vLSO is just like a real LSO, no matter how much I complain or argue it doesn't change my landing grade, "Where's your guide dog today, vPaddles?" ;D

Didn't realize LSOs typically get less flying time then other squadron pilots. tough job, but awesome at the same time.

GOONIE
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 10, 2014, 03:46:58 pm
Yet another good hot break video from that guy

Just a couple of his comments on YT:

This day only had a few flights, mostly post maintenance check flights so it was easy to work these types of high speed breaks into the pattern. When I'm on final you can see my room mate in his break turn, he was doing 620 kts and won the bet for the day.

Although the 600 kt break looks amazing when compared to a normal break, it really isn't that difficult. You fly through the same reference points, visual sight pictures are pretty much the same, you are just going much faster which requires more G and angle of bank. The FA-18 bleeds almost 65kts per second on the G limiter, you just got to have faith, go for it, and pull hard. Biggest mistake is getting to far abeam.


Anyone tried to HSB in FSX?..  ;)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on January 10, 2014, 04:18:04 pm
I have tried several SHB's in FSX  8), still waiting for vLSO to announce "very nice!" as I break overhead  ;)

Two things I've noticed during my SHBs, the nose of the jet oscillates a lot in the knife edge turn. What is cool is you can see it happen to the jet's nose in the video you posted. The nice thing in FSX, it doesn't matter if I am at 600kts or 280kts in the break, I only feel 1G. I can tell you from the flying I have done in real life, 6-7Gs does a number on your body. I wonder if that is why the pilot selected ATC (see it selected on the HUD) after the SHB, might have been a little drained after the 7.5Gs. He still does a great job rolling into the groove at 3/4NM.

GOONIE
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 10, 2014, 06:11:24 pm
Cool! Now I know who will be the first beta tester of this SHB feature  ;D

Well, down to business... The new vLSO version, mentioned earlier in this post (http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,9577.msg76543.html#msg76543), will show pilot's currency. A whole lot of information on qualifications and currency requirements could be found in LSO NATOPS (http://www.navyair.com/LSO_NATOPS_Manual.pdf) (paragraph 6.2, figure 6-1).

I suggest this rather simplified form of that big table:
(http://imageshack.com/a/img9/2158/oow2.jpg)

Initial CQ consists of 12 day (minimum 10 arrested) and 8 night landings (minimum 6 arrested).
A FCLP refresher, or period, is usually consists of 8-10 passes.

So, the program would follow this simple logic and show reminders, or hints, on what you shall do to keep current. The currency info will also be saved in export files for squadrons' LSOs convenience.

What do you think?  :)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on January 10, 2014, 07:04:19 pm
I love shit hot breaks in FSX.  A fun but simple feature for a future vLSO like Goonie said, would be to have some various audio marveling at the beauty of the break.  Could be simply triggered by breaking at over 500 KIAS and pulling at least 5G or something to that effect.

As for the currency, I really love where it's headed, but how exactly will you be implementing it?  Will it be based off of the time in FSX, PC system time, or some form of time keeping within vLSO itself?

Also, any progress on the rollback after trap feature?  A while back I discussed it with Sludge and I think you chimed in as well, just wanted to see if you had come up with anything viable yet.  I still think that the FSX pushback feature (somehow linked to the tailhook position?) could be workable if someone with better programming knowledge than me took a crack at it.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on January 10, 2014, 07:22:20 pm
Paddles,

The currency feature will be a nice add to vLSO for sure. Looks like only the arrested landings requirements will be monitored. Is there a reason you removed the soft requirement for T/Gs? Looking at the NATOPS doc, 4 landings (2 arrestments and 2 T/G)s are required for daytime 60 days-6month and 6-12months currency lapse. Not sure it is really necessary to add the T/Gs, or harder to code, but just a thought.

Anything planned for the FCLP side of the house? Will vLSO monitor to see if you've completed the FCLP refresher (8-10 passes) as required for the daytime currency lapse? 

SHBs and rollback sound like great adds for sure.

Any update on the "roger ball" inconsistency with the latest release?

GOONIE

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on January 10, 2014, 10:33:31 pm
Another random suggestion, obviously low on the priority list.  It would be epic to have an audio clip that plays once you initially CQ.  There is a clip that plays in the Seven-G demo that says something to the effect of "congrats buddy you're a qual."

We have so many requests and suggestions, I almost feel bad.  Almost.  ;)

Thanks for all your hard work!  I would love to help out any way I can if you ever need it!


Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 11, 2014, 02:37:25 pm
Ok, guys
Good questions

Quote from: pyroperson87
A fun but simple feature for a future vLSO like Goonie said, would be to have some various audio marveling at the beauty of the break.
Agreed, and I have some good samples already

Quote from: pyroperson87
Will it be based off of the time in FSX, PC system time, or some form of time keeping within vLSO itself?
The logbook records keep your PC system date and FSX time of day (day or night). The same approach will be used for currency.

Quote from: pyroperson87
Also, any progress on the rollback after trap feature?  A while back I discussed it with Sludge and I think you chimed in as well, just wanted to see if you had come up with anything viable yet.  I still think that the FSX pushback feature (somehow linked to the tailhook position?) could be workable if someone with better programming knowledge than me took a crack at it.
The rollback feature has passed initial ship suitability tests and ready for deployment 8)
An XML gauge using the pushback could be a good solution, however it would require tweaking each aircraft's panel files etc. The way I implement it is free of this limitation and should work with any aircraft known to vLSO. But, it requires vLSO running  ;)

Quote from: GOONIE
Is there a reason you removed the soft requirement for T/Gs? Looking at the NATOPS doc, 4 landings (2 arrestments and 2 T/G)s are required for daytime 60 days-6month and 6-12months currency lapse. Not sure it is really necessary to add the T/Gs, or harder to code, but just a thought.
I think, that only the number of arrested landings should meet the currency requirements and the number of T/Gs is actually unlimited, so you will be free to follow NATOPS or not to follow. Two, four, ten or even zero T/Gs - no matter.

Quote from: GOONIE
Will vLSO monitor to see if you've completed the FCLP refresher (8-10 passes) as required for the daytime currency lapse?
Yes, indeedy.  :)

Quote from: GOONIE
Any update on the "roger ball" inconsistency with the latest release?
It's fixed now.

Quote from: pyroperson87
It would be epic to have an audio clip that plays once you initially CQ.  There is a clip that plays in the Seven-G demo that says something to the effect of "congrats buddy you're a qual."
Can I have that clip? By the way, I have a similar audio (see the attachment).

Quote from: pyroperson87
I would love to help out any way I can if you ever need it!
Ok, yet another test pilot on my roster  ;D

And my question is:
What are the criteria of passing Initial CQ? All required landings should be graded no lower than a Fair?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on January 11, 2014, 07:40:52 pm
Quote
it requires vLSO running

The real question is, when ISN'T vLSO running  ;D

Quote
Can I have that clip?

Unfortunately the demo no longer exists to my knowledge.  I had the demo for it almost 2 or 3 years ago, but I'll do some digging.

Quote
What are the criteria of passing Initial CQ?

Firstly, undergraduate CQ is flown in the T-45C and you have to make 14 daytime (there are no night passes during undergrad CQ) passes at the boat (with the hook DOWN), and you must trap on at least 10 of those passes. Prior to the hook down passes there are several T/G's performed, but I don't know how many and if there is any criteria regarding those passes.  I also unfortunately don't know if there are any specific grading requirements for the traps.  I would assume that getting a single No Grade pass would be acceptable, but no more.  I would also assume that if you were to get a Cut Pass you would not qual.  I'll try to find something a little more substantial than my own assumptions  :D

Second, you would head to initial CQ which would be at your FRS in your assigned airframe.  Things get more strict here.  You have to make 12 daytime hook down passes, of which 10 must be traps. Then you have the night portion: 8 hook down passes, 6 must be traps.  Again, I don't know the minimum allowable grades for initial CQ.

However I do know that if you fail undergrad qual you'll be transferred to another aircraft type that is land based (usually the P-3).  If you fail initial CQ, they'll bump you into a different aircraft and let you try to CQ again.  If you fail that you will no longer be a naval aviator and you'll become a line officer in the Navy.  You're 10 year commitment is waived and is dropped down to the commitment determined by your assigned line of duty, usually 6 years.

I'll try to research the various CQ's some more to see if I can find some specifics.

Also, this could be difficult to implement since there are some that simply use vLSO for fun rather than to have to move through the pipeline like a real aviator would.  Maybe an option for a simple vLSO and a vLSO that follows the rigid structure of CQ?  Just a thought.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on January 11, 2014, 09:48:19 pm
I'm interested in the qualification scenarios also so I'll look to see what can be found. These quals have been talked about before on the forum - perhaps on this very thread (so long now)? And I'm agreeing with 'pyro' on this comment:

"...there are some that simply use vLSO for fun rather than to have to move through the pipeline like a real aviator would.  Maybe an option for a simple vLSO and a vLSO that follows the rigid structure of CQ?  Just a thought."

I'm only an occasional user nowadays of FSX (not even installed at moment) due to other commitments (the 4.4GB PDF amongst other things) so having to go through some rigid structure will be offputting to say the least. A 'simple vLSO' (regarding quals or whatever) would be the one for me.  ;D Thanks.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: ExNusquam on January 11, 2014, 09:58:20 pm
Paddles, attached is the Seven-G LSO archive, all the LSO calls that were included in the demo. I'd get in contact with the Seven-G devs before I would distribute this with vLSO.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on January 11, 2014, 10:08:33 pm
Nice work Joe! I finally found the demo on my external HD and was just about to upload that folder with similar comments.

The two sounds files for quals are r35 and r36. The rest are all just standard LSO corrective calls.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on January 11, 2014, 10:50:03 pm
A new USN LSO Reference Manual was produced c. 2011 replacing the much older c.2001 edition. I have not been able to find the new edition online so far.

U.S. Navy Aircraft Carrier Landing Sgnal Officer Manual [Kindle Edition]

Today I find this: http://www.amazon.com/Aircraft-Carrier-Landing-Officer-Manual-ebook/dp/B00FNRT1RI

Does anyone have this? Does anyone know if 'Kindle e-books' (PDFs I presume?) can be read by Adobe Reader/Acrobat. I would guess they can but so far I have not bought any e-books and do not have a Kindle.

Thanks in advance for any feedback please. The 'e-book' may just be an LSO NATOPS Manual - these are free PDFs available in a few places. I can check the index with whatever LSO pubs I have to see if there is a correlation:

"Publication Date: 04 Aug 2013
In the past, most of what a Landing Signal Officer (LSO) learned was through direct experience; the longer the LSO "hung around", the more "sea stories" he had heard, the more "lessons learned" he had seen, the more he filed away for later use and as a future reference. Any technical knowledge or information he gained was usually passed by word of mouth, and only after time did the LSO become knowledgeable and proficient in his job.

Today's LSO may not gain as much experience as in the past; however, the demand on LSO proficiency is ever increasing. With pilot flight time decreasing, the procurement of replacement aircraft below requirements, and the cost of per aircraft increasing, the onus on the LSO is now greater. More than ever it is mandatory that the LSO must be able to wave a safe and expeditious recovery every time.

The LSO Reference Manual is intended to categorize and briefly explain LSO related technical references, establish a training outline for the LSO, and provide a basic document for self study. This guide is not intended to provide all the answers or to replace references which the LSO must know intimately, such as LSO NATOPS, CVNATOPS, Aircraft Recovery Bulletins, Commander Naval Air, Atlantic (AIRLANT), Commander Naval Air, Pacific, (AIRPAC), or Commander Naval Air, Training (CNATRA) instructions/SOP, etc. if used as guide, it should provide answers to many questions and point fledgling LSOs in the right direction for accurate information. As an additional caveat, the LSO Reference Manual is not intended to be used as a technical source document. [What? I don't get that.?]

Appropriate Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR) publications should be consulted for the most current information regarding system design, configurations, etc.

CONTENTS:
SECTION I
Equipment
Chapter 1 Optical Landing Systems
Chapter 2 Improved Fresnel Lens Optical Landing System (IFLOLS)
Chapter 3 Manually Operated Visual Landing Aid System (MOVLAS)
Chapter 4 Integrated Launch and Recovery Television Surveillance System (ILARTS)
Chapter 5 LSO Workstation / Equipment
Chapter 6 CV(N) Lighting and Markings
Chapter 7 Electronic Landing Aids
Chapter 8 Laser Range Line-up System (to be added)
Chapter 9 Shipboard Arresting Gear
Chapter 10 Steam Catapults
Chapter 11 Shorebased Visual Landing Aids
Chapter 12 Shorebased / Field Arresting Gear

SECTION II
Operations
Chapter 13 Shipboard Organization
Chapter 14 Carrier Air Traffic Control Center (CATCC)
Chapter 15 The Air Plane
Chapter 16 Aircraft Lighting
Chapter 17 Environmental Factors
Chapter 18 Field Carrier Landing Practice (FCLP) and Carrier Qualification (CQ)
Chapter 19 Debriefing
Chapter 20 Waving Concepts
Chapter 21 Aircraft Data
Chapter 22 Carrier And Field Service Units

SECTION III
Administration
Chapter 23 LSO Publications Ordering Information
Chapter 24 LSO Qualifications Correspondence
Chapter 25 LSO Additional Qualification Designator (AQDs)
Chapter 26 Marine Corps LSO Program
Chapter 27 Sample LSO Mishap Statement
Chapter 28 Sample LSO ADMAT Guide
Chapter 29 LSO Personal Equipment
Chapter 30 LSO Points-of-Contact

SECTION IV
Aircraft Recovery/Launching Bulletins
Chapter 31 Aircraft Recovery Bulletins
Chapter 32 Aircraft Launching Bulletins"
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on January 11, 2014, 11:07:48 pm
OOPs! I did not see that there is a preview of this 'LSO Kindle e-Book' at the URL. It is the 1999 Rev.B edition of the LSO REFERENCE MANUAL which WAS available online at many places but it seems no longer. So this is one way to get the OLD edition. Sorry about that.

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/NewerAlbum/LSOrefManualRevB1999kindleEbook.gif~original) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/SpazSinbad/media/NewerAlbum/LSOrefManualRevB1999kindleEbook.gif.html)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 12, 2014, 08:23:52 am
Joe, thanks for the samples, will try to contanct Seven-G guys and ask their permisson.

There's a 2009 version of LSO NATOPS (http://publicintelligence.net/u-s-navy-carrier-vessel-natops-landing-signal-officer-manual/) still publicly available and which I somehow missed, to my shame.
The qualifying procedures and currency requirements now described in a more easy to understand, and to follow, form. For example, no more night T/Gs as a currency option. So, my table has been changed a little bit:
(http://imageshack.com/a/img841/9626/dp31.jpg)
Note that I intentionally made the day and night parts symmetrical (two lines 1-7 and 8-14 days instead of one line 1-14 days for day currency) - this is just to simplify the program's logic implementation.

I totally agree with Pyro and Spaz that not all casual players (of which I am one myself) want to follow all the qual procedures required. All they usually want is to fly around a carrier and do some traps, as time permits. And a vLSO checkbox option saying 'Follow CQ procedures' (or something to that effect) would be their choice.
Virtual squadrons would definitely require this option be checked on.  8)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Orion on January 12, 2014, 10:52:54 am
Just curious, how did you implement the rollback?  After SURFACE RELATIVE GROUND SPEED goes to zero, transmit the TOGGLE_PUSHBACK event, wait, then toggle it back off?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 12, 2014, 05:00:16 pm
Not quite...
I don't like the idea to use the pushback feature as the rollback, because the pushback's dynamic seems to follow the exponential rule, i.e. you toggle it on and it starts moving slowly, then accelerates more and more, and then keeps moving with the constant speed. But what I don't like about the pushback most of all is that it stops abruptly as soon as you toggle it off, just as if you engaged the parking brakes...
That's why I decided to use VELOCITY BODY Z, which follows somewhat biased Gaussian rule, i.e. smoothly accelerates and decelerates. This gives me full control over the process and the rollback looks more natural, just as what we can see on numerous carrier videos.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on January 12, 2014, 05:47:41 pm
Paddles you are god among men.  The work you do is just incredible.  I can't wait to see it in action!

Off topic a little bit, but with your FCLP sceneries the IFLOLS don't become visible until RIGHT before 3/4 of a mile, despite having my LOD radius maxed.  I'm assuming this is something on my end, but thought I would ask.

Also, how are the IFLOLS implemented?  Are they using the FSX halo.bmp?  My runway lights scalars are having no effect whatsoever on the ball or datum lights.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on January 12, 2014, 08:16:49 pm
'pyro' heheheh. I think 'Paddles' has some 'lights' recommendations that are worth following. Also best to do FCLP at night - or at least dusk - so that the lights will be visible at about 1.5NM in my long ago experience testing FCLP and the new IFLOLS and light recommendations to the nth degree.  ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Orion on January 13, 2014, 12:50:56 am
Do you set VELOCITY BODY Z just once, then?  In my experience, it seems to have the effect of a short impulse, thereafter FSX continues to run its own internal simulation.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 13, 2014, 04:05:09 am
...with your FCLP sceneries the IFLOLS don't become visible until RIGHT before 3/4 of a mile, despite having my LOD radius maxed.  I'm assuming this is something on my end, but thought I would ask.

Also, how are the IFLOLS implemented?  Are they using the FSX halo.bmp?  My runway lights scalars are having no effect whatsoever on the ball or datum lights.
The IFLOLS lights visibility range is set to 3700m, which is roughly 2nm. The FCLP pack vol.2 bundles a substitute to the default Halo.bmp and this texture is recommended to use with my FCLP sceneries. That was 3 years ago now, but I remember Spaz did numerous tests and finally we found that this texture would be a good compromise for both day and night practice. My current LOD is set to 3.5 and the lights work as intended.

...it seems to have the effect of a short impulse, thereafter FSX continues to run its own internal simulation.
Correct. That's why I set VELOCITY BODY Z in a sequence, following the aforementioned Gaussian rule. It's set about 4 times per second and runs smoothly.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on January 13, 2014, 06:10:36 am
Thanks Paddles, I got a copy of that halo and it's really nice.  I very much prefer it to Dante's light fix. 

Also, I figured out what was causing the problems with my ball not showing up.  Well, I sorta figured it out.  I was using REX4 textures, reverted back to my textures I had installed before and the problem was solved.  Not sure exactly WHAT in REX4 was causing it though. I'll have to install textures one by one and test them to see what's going on. Now I can see the ball at about 2NM like you said, and the clarity is enough that I can start flying the ball by about 1.3NM.  Had a great night flying tonight...it was the most I've done in a long time.  21 passes at KNRA and then 14 at the boat  :o
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 13, 2014, 11:08:38 am
21 passes at KNRA and then 14 at the boat  :o
Oh boy!.. That was quite a flying  ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 13, 2014, 06:33:25 pm
Guys,
I have a couple of questions about a FCLP refresher (or a period? do they differ, by the way?). How many touch-and-goes are there in a period? Does a period consist of both day and night passes or not? Say, 6 day T/Gs and 6 night T/Gs per a period/refresher?..
According to the table shown above a refresher is required only for day currency, so does this mean that only day FCLP is required? And what about night FCLP then?

Couldn't find any useable info on this and will be greatly appreciated if someone gives me a heads up...

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on January 13, 2014, 07:16:44 pm
Not being in the USN today nor have I ever been in the USN it can be difficult to say - however my understanding of the requirements would be that given a period of time when a pilot is not only not carrier qualified but may no longer be qualified on a particular carrier aircraft then there is a refresher period of flying that will include day FCLP and when 'refreshed' that pilot will then start night FCLP with usually getting the most 'bounces' as possible in any one night session. I'll guess there is a practical limit for any aircraft.

Day FCLP is a waste of time for an experienced pilot. New carrier pilots have to become comfortable with FCLP in daytime but then that is that. No more daytime FCLP. Why? Because there are too many cues during the day to either distract from ball flying or 'just make it too easy'.  ;D

For example during the day the runway and landmarks are visible along with the horizon. It is easy to 'deck spot' to get into the groove and stay there. In fact with experience, at the same field during the day, a pilot can simulate flying the ball without looking at it and do well. Not so at night. At night it is more difficult obviously so that the pilot has to concentrate on flying the ball and lineup on the teenytiny simulated carrier deck, and not crash. At the beginning night FCLP is a real chore but then it gets easier with practice, much the same as any form of flying, especially flying the ball. Probably after 6 or 7 approaches at night any pilot is tuckered out for that session anyway. Perhaps having a break by being hot refuelled, or changing to another aircraft that same night, is helpful but I would wager after two FCLP sessions at night for a total of say 14, most pilots would have had enough and probably regulations say the same thing [especially if that same pilot has flown during the day - often in preparation for the night FCLP session(s)]. Carrier pilots are humans too.  ;D

The reason the day/night FCLP circuit heights are different is also due to the 'danger nature' of night flying close to the ground. It ain't easy on a black moonless cloud covered night without external ground lights for some kind of orientation. It is just instrument flying until downwind visual with the lighted carrier box, abeam and then base turn from 1,000 feet AGL. This same circuit done during the day at NATOPS height is probably impossible at night. It is too easy to have some height wandering during the night FCLP circuit (within limits obviously). Remember during night time carrier pilots are not doing a visual circuit at sea. They carry out an instrument approach for good reason. One of the most difficult things I did for the first time was fly downwind on instruments at 1,000 feet after my first night deck landing attempting to listen to the LSO give a précis of my first night approach. They had not done it before either during FCLP or during day carrier circuits so that 'debrief' was a huge distraction and thankfully they never did it again. Anyway I was on my way at one thousand feet to be positioned for the next approach via CCA Carrier Controlled Approach (GCA from carrier) as I had been positioned for the first approach. Bloody hell it was black out there. I had NEVER been in such a black environment before at 1,000 feet.

Pilots will use the ball during the day to land at an airfield with a mirror/IFLOLS. If there is no such apparatus then the pilot will attempt to land in the same manner simulating such an approach.

Remember FCLP is supposed to be done at night. Day FCLP is useless once the basics mastered. When at sea during the day there are no visual cues except the horizon, the sea and the ship. Yes there are instruments today saying stuff but really the pilot needs to be visually able to position the aircraft around the ship. The chaps doing the SH$THOT breaks are probably not flying instruments. Once a pilot is competent and able to carry out day approaches regularly then they start to get SH$THOT but not before being really good at it anyway. Try being a SH$THOT newbie and there will be tears before teatime back at the beach.  ;D

Compare a test NIGHT FSX FCLP "height wandering up and down" with a dusk FCLP session (to get familiar with flying just as you see in the video - using only the HUD view as shown for the purpose of making the videos - try it - it is bloody difficult). Also I'm not familiar flying with a HUD. I'm old school flying visually (or non HUD instruments at night) looking at only the AoA Indexer and what else? MeatBall LineUp and AirSpeed (Optimum Angle of Attack). ;D  These videos made during testing for the PADDLES / FSXNAVYPILOT new IFLOLS and FCLP missions at Coupeville many moons ago now.

Having watched the night video again I must repeat that this is also a TEST of the calls by the LSO for accuracy and I was demonstrating as best I could for FSXNP that the calls sometimes were not accurate. YMMV. So rather than wave off from an erroneous call I continued because IMHO the approach was within limits. However in real life the LSO MUST BE OBEYED. OK?

And BTW the night conditions particularly for Mission 5 were carefully selected so that the moon was in an optimum position during a cloudless night to best make use of whatever cues can be seen. This was done to make life easier - bearing in mind mostly it ain't easy. I'll bet if one can master night FCLP then anything else is easy for sure. YMMV.



Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on January 13, 2014, 09:31:14 pm
At the risk of being tedious the two FSX demo FCLP sessions via HUD only view have been rerendered together. Best viewed in HD or best quality available to you.

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on January 13, 2014, 09:41:50 pm
I'll agree with Spaz, that FCLP at night is definitely harder, which may be typically why most FCLPs occur at night or the evening hours, at least it is that way at Fentress. Daytime FCLP is easier, but is still used, maybe for guys new to the RAG, or if the night FCLP period is fully booked (shouldn't be a problem in FSX). During the day I hear VFA-106 RAG flights take off from Oceana, report Fentress in sight, then boogie on over for FCLP.

I thought a FCLP period was 8-10 passes (T/Gs), but I think it is at the discretion of the senior LSOs based on pilot performance and operational conditions. I agree with Spaz, that after 8 passes you must get pretty tired. Unfortunately, I have not heard nor read anything definitive about the FCLP refresher being required to be flown during the day or night, but I think the preference would be night time.

I asked my buddy who just CQ'd in the F/A-18C in Oct about FCLPs before he deployed in November. He said the ball flying of course is important during FCLP, but the two primary goals of FCLP work is to demonstrate to the LSOs that you can consistently get to a good 'start position' and also respond to LSOs commands promptly. As we all know the key to a good approach is a good start, which is largely an instrument maneuver as well as requiring stick and rudder skill. Since your airspeed is typically much faster during FCLPs (e.g. 30knots) when compared to landing on the boat (which is moving and usually has a wind over deck), it can make the ball flying during FCLP harder or not representative of the conditions when flying to the carrier, which I guess makes sense.  ::)

Anyways, just thought I would add this input.

Looking forward to the latest update Paddles!!!  We all need a little biased Gaussian rule rollback ;D

GOONIE
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on January 13, 2014, 10:39:04 pm
I haven't been able to find any documentation regarding FCLP refreshers but for undergrad FCLP you fly NO LESS than 6 passes each FCLP event and they are ALWAYS flown in groups of 2 or 4, with UP TO 3 events PER DAY.

I have found some great PowerPoints from many of the training courses for SNA's:

If you go to Google and type in FCL XXXX (replace XXXX with 4 digit number) you can find almost every training syllabus from the start of FCLP through to completion from CNTRA.NAVY.MIL (you can also try IR XXXX, NFM XXXX, and FRM XXXX). Each PowerPoint presentation clearly indicates the requirements of each FCLP course on the "Syllabus Notes" and "Recommended Flight Conduct" pages.  There are also several other course types listed in the prerequisites including IR, NFM, and FRM classes.  This is by far the BEST resource I have found so far regarding undergraduate SNA training.


Of particular interest for vLSO purposes:
 - NFM 4101/4102 indicate that 12 night field carrier landings are required
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on January 13, 2014, 11:18:09 pm
Another REALLY good presentation I found is here:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CC4QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnatra.navy.mil%2Febrief%2Fdocuments%2F02_Training_Air_Wing_Two%2F03_MPTS%2520%28.167%29%2F17_Adv.%2520Jet%2520-%2520CQL%2FSUPPLEMENTS%2FSUPPLEMENTAL%2520DOCUMENTS%2FMID-STAGE%2520LECTURE.ppt&ei=pWPUUuutBKugsQTRoYDgCw&usg=AFQjCNFI-O6fbBY61gitTRKUQluP59m_Fg&bvm=bv.59026428,d.cWc (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CC4QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnatra.navy.mil%2Febrief%2Fdocuments%2F02_Training_Air_Wing_Two%2F03_MPTS%2520%28.167%29%2F17_Adv.%2520Jet%2520-%2520CQL%2FSUPPLEMENTS%2FSUPPLEMENTAL%2520DOCUMENTS%2FMID-STAGE%2520LECTURE.ppt&ei=pWPUUuutBKugsQTRoYDgCw&usg=AFQjCNFI-O6fbBY61gitTRKUQluP59m_Fg&bvm=bv.59026428,d.cWc)

Has some REALLY great illustrations indicating some "benchmarks" (gouges) you can use when flying the pattern (this is again in the T-45)

And sorry for the long link, I don't know how to make it all pretty and say something like "click here!"  :D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on January 14, 2014, 02:04:41 am
Thanks for the gouge 'pyro'. Attached is the PPT made into a PDF of 59 pages (I'll see if the URL can be deciphered)....

Now attached is the NFM 4101 - 4102 XLS file made into a PDF (which I have yet to figure out what it means?).
http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&ved=0CDkQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnatra.navy.mil%2Febrief%2Fdocuments%2F01_Training_Air_Wing_One%2F02_MPTS%2520(.167)%2F11_MPTS%2520IJET%2520NFAM%2520(NFM)%2FKNEEBOARD%2FNFM%25204101-4102.xls&ei=HZDUUoXPIOWWiQey-YFo&usg=AFQjCNFKrbyWoaWgcv0NZ65H60G2qbI3Jg&sig2=DTCupgN0EKHMQm__EPfZYg&bvm=bv.59378465,d.aGc

I'm still adjusting.... here is the PPT for NFM 4101 - 4102 as a PDF (attached) with this text on one page:

SYLLABUS NOTES
A. FLY THESE EVENTS FROM THE FRONT COCKPIT

B. EVENTS SHALL TAKE OFF NO EARLIER THAN 30 MINUTES AFTER OFFICIAL SUNSET.

C. STUDENT MUST PERFORM ONE NIGHT BREAK AT THE FIELD IN BLOCK.

D. A MINIMUM OF 12 NIGHT FIELD CARRIER LANDINGS ARE REQUIRED IN BLOCK.

SOLO PPT made into a PDF attached.... (links are in the PDF).
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on January 14, 2014, 02:35:46 am
Perhaps this is another way to access the 'tailhook' section:

http://www.cnatra.navy.mil/ebrief/index.asp?CMD=01_Training_Air_Wing_One&SYL=01_Tailhook (.159)

http://www.cnatra.navy.mil/ebrief/index.asp?CMD=01_Training_Air_Wing_One&SYL=01_Tailhook (.159)&STG=06_Int. Jet - FCLP

http://www.cnatra.navy.mil/ebrief/index.asp?CMD=01_Training_Air_Wing_One&SYL=01_Tailhook (.159)&STG=11_Int. E2C2 - CQ

http://www.cnatra.navy.mil/ebrief/index.asp?CMD=01_Training_Air_Wing_One&SYL=01_Tailhook (.159)&STG=16_Adv. Strike - CQ
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on January 14, 2014, 02:49:48 am
Then there is the classic T-45C CQ PDF from 2001:

http://www.cnatra.navy.mil/pubs/folder5/T45/P-1211.PDF (1.7Mb)

with NOTES: http://www.cnatra.navy.mil/ebrief/documents/01_Training_Air_Wing_One/references/COLUMN%201/STAN%20NOTES/CQ.pdf (1.8Mb)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on January 14, 2014, 03:12:42 am
Earlier 'Paddles/FSXNP' asked about CLARA. From the notes above here is the gouge:

TW-1 Stan Notes I FTI Supplement FCL & CQL STAGES

"...(5) CLARA: Short for "clarify my position". The communication sequence after the CLARA call is crucial. After the CLARA call, the LSO will notify you of your position on glideslope (e.g. "you're high/low") and will continue to provide this information until either you land or call the ball. Once you acquire the ball after calling "CLARA" simply call, "ball", the LSO will then roger your ball call. CLARA calls are made at any time you do not see a ball on the lens. For example, the lens may have failed or the glare from the sun may impede your ability to pick up the ball. If you can't see lineup, call "CLARA lineup" and the LSO will begin to provide centerline information (e.g., "you're on centerline, you're lined up left, etc.")...."

http://www.cnatra.navy.mil/ebrief/documents/01_Training_Air_Wing_One/references/COLUMN%201/STAN%20NOTES/CQ.pdf
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on January 14, 2014, 06:13:46 pm
Another REALLY good presentation I found is here:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CC4QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnatra.navy.mil%2Febrief%2Fdocuments%2F02_Training_Air_Wing_Two%2F03_MPTS%2520%28.167%29%2F17_Adv.%2520Jet%2520-%2520CQL%2FSUPPLEMENTS%2FSUPPLEMENTAL%2520DOCUMENTS%2FMID-STAGE%2520LECTURE.ppt&ei=pWPUUuutBKugsQTRoYDgCw&usg=AFQjCNFI-O6fbBY61gitTRKUQluP59m_Fg&bvm=bv.59026428,d.cWc (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CC4QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnatra.navy.mil%2Febrief%2Fdocuments%2F02_Training_Air_Wing_Two%2F03_MPTS%2520%28.167%29%2F17_Adv.%2520Jet%2520-%2520CQL%2FSUPPLEMENTS%2FSUPPLEMENTAL%2520DOCUMENTS%2FMID-STAGE%2520LECTURE.ppt&ei=pWPUUuutBKugsQTRoYDgCw&usg=AFQjCNFI-O6fbBY61gitTRKUQluP59m_Fg&bvm=bv.59026428,d.cWc)

Has some REALLY great illustrations indicating some "benchmarks" (gouges) you can use when flying the pattern (this is again in the T-45)

And sorry for the long link, I don't know how to make it all pretty and say something like "click here!"  :D


Nice find Pyro. Noticed on the big picture slide for FCLP, it states "expect 6-8 passes / period"

GOONIE
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 16, 2014, 05:06:29 am
Well, guys
Today I have something to discuss...

In FSX (as in any other simulator) it's difficult, if at all possible, to follow NATOPS in general and CQ procedures in particular. No secret, we would fly FSX just for fun and entertainment, mostly on weekends, and we simply have no time to meet strict NATOPS requirements. At the same time, some of us still want to have the ability to fly as realistically as possible...

So, we have to find a good compromise satisfying the maximum number of virtual naval aviators and implement it in the vLSO program.

And here are my initial suggestions for your examination and discussion...

First, the previously suggested table remains unchanged:

(http://imageshack.com/a/img841/9626/dp31.jpg)

I suggest following CQ definitions:

Undergraduate CQ
Pilot’s first day carrier qualifications prior to designation as a Naval Aviator.
14 day landings, 10 of which shall be arrested.

Initial CQ
Pilot’s first day or day/night carrier qualification as a designated Naval Aviator.
10 day arrested landings and 6 night arrested landings.

Requalification CQ
Pilot’s day/night currency exceeds 365 days but less than four years.
6 day arrested landings and 4 night arrested landings.

I additionally suggest to change the time requirements to meet 7 days, or weekends, schedule:

A FCLP refresher (or period) consists of 6 day and 6 night passes and shall be completed within 7 days.
No longer than 7 [10] days shall elapse between the last FCLP period and the first carrier landing.

Carrier qualification of any type shall be completed within a 7-day [30-day] period.

NOTE: Numbers in square brackets are NATOPS requirements.

And bear in mind - this my rather arbitrary decision is subject for criticism and your feedback is always welcome!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on January 16, 2014, 06:08:30 am
I'm really diggin' it!  For Initial CQ however, will there be no maximum number of passes (i.e X number of passes, Y number of those passes must be arrested)?  I think that would be a wise route to take allowing for the more casual simmer to still get a good feel of accomplishment and realism.  I just wasn't sure if you accidentally omitted that portion, or purposefully posted it that way.

Also, since I have been flying a lot more lately I have a few bug reports for you.  

1) I have been getting passes lately that are BOLTERS in the sim, but get graded in vLSO as if I caught a wire (but without showing a wire caught).  See pictures for an example of one such pass.  I have a friend that I recently introduced to vLSO that confirms that he has also had several of these.  I attached screens from one of his examples as well.

2) With manual ball call selected, if you fly a pass WITHOUT calling the ball, there is no waveoff call.  To my knowledge if the pilot does not call the ball OR call CLARA the LSO would trigger the waveoff lights and call for a waveoff.  Obviously you can't control the waveoff lights though  ;)

3) I have been getting the same error frequently, but this time I remember to screenshot it.  See attached for access violation error.

Don't think that I am by any means compaining about vLSO.  I can't fly FSX FCLP or carrier ops without it  ;D  I just want to help improve future releases.  Thanks for your awesome work!

EDIT: These were flown in multiplayer in the FSXBA server, hence the lack of wind over the deck.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 16, 2014, 07:07:53 am
For Initial CQ however, will there be no maximum number of passes (i.e X number of passes, Y number of those passes must be arrested)?  I think that would be a wise route to take allowing for the more casual simmer to still get a good feel of accomplishment and realism.  I just wasn't sure if you accidentally omitted that portion, or purposefully posted it that way.
Yes, that was on purpose. I decided to not count T/Gs, thus the number of these passes would be unlimited.  ;)

1) I have been getting passes lately that are BOLTERS in the sim, but get graded in vLSO as if I caught a wire (but without showing a wire caught).  See pictures for an example of one such pass.  I have a friend that I recently introduced to vLSO that confirms that he has also had several of these.  I attached screens from one of his examples as well.
Have you (your friend) had this error in single player mode? With any previous vLSO betas?

2) With manual ball call selected, if you fly a pass WITHOUT calling the ball, there is no waveoff call.  To my knowledge if the pilot does not call the ball OR call CLARA the LSO would trigger the waveoff lights and call for a waveoff.  Obviously you can't control the waveoff lights though  ;)
Ok, my fault. Will check and correct the program.

3) I have been getting the same error frequently, but this time I remember to screenshot it.  See attached for access violation error.
Again, is this MP specific error? When exactly (at what part of an approach) does this window appear?

Thanks for the bugreport!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on January 16, 2014, 03:46:45 pm
I have not had this occur in any other version of vLSO.  I have only had it happen ONCE in free flight.  It has occurred a total of 3 times to me in multiplayer and twice for my friend.  He says it has not happened to him in single player.  I should also note that I was in the VRS Superbug and he was in the FSXBA 2012 Hornet.

I'm not sure exactly when that access violation occurred unfortunately.  I always fly full screen (that ugly start bar kills the realism ::) ) and I usually fly multiple passes before ending the flight and checking my vLSO logbook.  I can say that the error occurred during multiplayer FCLP at your KNRA scenery.  I have never had this access violation occur in free flight.


Now back to the good stuff!  ;D

For initial CQ I think it would be great if Dino's T-45 was mandatory for this portion.

For undergraduate CQ, any aircraft would be fine.  However, since there will be no limit to the number of passes used to obtain your minimum number of day/night traps, a way to still increase the challenge would be to have vLSO reject any passes that were flown with ATC APP enaged (or the equivalent autothrottle modes of other aircraft types).  I'm not sure that this is even physically possible to implement, or that anyone else would be interested in such a feature.  It would be great for realism though as ATC APP is not to be used during any CQ event.  In fact, even after you are qualed at the boat and are on a work-up, det, or deployment you still only get to use ATC at the discretion of your CO or CAG.  Just a thought.

That's all I have for now....I'm so excited for this!

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on January 16, 2014, 08:24:18 pm
Paddles,

I've also had Bolters not called out (audio) or captured by vLSO in SP. I haven't had this happen since using the latest update 0.7.1.2, but I am not sure I've boltered yet. I have mainly been having the roger ball, paddles contact audio inconsistency with the manual call trigger, which I know you said you have fixed.

I like the CQ and FCLP criteria you've drafted. My only suggestion for FCLP refresher is to require bounces be at night. I talked to my friend who flies for VFA-37, he confirmed FCLP focus is at night. He also said a period is 6-8 bounces.

Monitoring Auto, or ATC engagement is a neat idea for CQ (restrict its use). Another cool thing you could do if vLSO could monitor Auto-throttle is adjust LSO calls. My friend told me that one of the reasons you call "Auto" on the ball call, is to let the LSO know whether to give Power or Attitude calls. Grading is the same for Auto and fully manual approaches.

GOONIE
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on January 17, 2014, 04:04:31 am
Hey Paddles, I found this video and it has some great audio from Marshal and the LSO:



I've already stripped the audio from it and started cutting it for use in my vLSO, but thought I'd point it out for you if you wanted more audio options for future releases.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on January 17, 2014, 06:15:33 pm
I just received a CD-R from my friend who is on cruise. The CD-R has four hours of raw PLAT cam footage and audio, needless to say it is pretty sweet  :o I watched it all last night, my wife called it "pilot porn".

The day time ops are pretty slow and audio is quiet (zip lip), the night time however is busy as you can imagine.

Right now I am trying to figure out how to transfer the data from the CD-R directly to my computer to cut up the audio for vLSO, stand by. The files are not in a common format (e.g. MP4, MOV, WMA) which would make this easier.

GOONIE
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 17, 2014, 07:20:39 pm
Cool! Just curious, what format do they use for PLAT videos? By the way, the capacity of a CD is about 600-700Mb, not a big deal nowadays... ))
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on January 17, 2014, 09:10:33 pm
It was burned with some recording software, there is a Video_RM and Video_TS folder. There are several files inside each, looks like the .VOB is a place to start. I was able to get the .VOB files into windows movie maker, so will go from there.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on January 17, 2014, 10:29:16 pm
'Goonie' perhaps this will help with the .VOB file. It is actually an .MPG/MPEG file in a container so that it will play as a Video DVD along with the other files in the structure. So by itself the .VOB file can be renamed as an .MPEG/MPG and you will be able to put it into Windows Movie Maker I hope. I'm using Windows 8 now and have given it a try. It worked in previous versions of Windows also.

One proviso: If an old codec was used - greyscale for example - then this method may not work in Windows 8 or Windows (I forget now). However I have just tried this method with a colour .VOB and it works fine. Hope it goes well for you. I tried putting the same original .VOB file into WMM but no luck there for me. Renamed it was OK as an .MPG

Meanwhile... an oldie but a goldie from NeptunusLex (sadly now dead some several years).

Landing grades By lex 07 Sep 2004
http://www.neptunuslex.com/2004/09/07/landing-grades/
"We grade every landing that a pilot performs aboard the aircraft carrier.
        There’s a board in every ready room, displaying the color-coded grades. Everyone in that highly competitive environment knows exactly where he fits in the hierarchy of the one thing which separates every Navy pilot from his terrestrial, mortal counterparts: Landing aboard the ship. You could have an outstanding mission, replete with shacked targets, dead bandits and superior airborne leadership. But if you came back and landed on the “ace,” the one-wire, it was a bad hop. It’s not only what wire you catch (although that is important) – it’s how you get there. While it’s pretty hard to get a good grade on the one-wire, and impossible if you bolter, there are nearly as many 4.0 two-wires as there are three-wires. Smooth, predictable and controlled. Or at least making it look that way. Because we’re all about appearances. Actually, the reason why we grade landings is part of a continuous process improvement plan – we work hard to do it well when it’s easy, so that we can do it at all when it’s hard. And it does get hard. Chinese algebra hard, when the deck is moving, and the weather rolls in, and the moon is a distant memory of a time when it didn’t suck, quite so bad.
So the grades:
          OK – An “Oh-kay.” A 4.0 grade, pretty much the best that you can do – above average, in other words. There’s also the OK (Oh-kay, underline) – reserved for outstanding landings with significant complicating factors – an engine out, for example. You don’t count on OK.
Next is a (OK), or “fair” pass. Fleet average. The parentheses are used in LSO shorthand to indicate “a little.” So a (OK) is a little OK. A 3.0 grade.
          Next is a bolter, indicated by a “B.” A bolter is a 2.5 grade – better than the worst normal pass, the “No-grade” (2.0), defined as “below average.” A No-grade is ugly, but safely ugly. Nevertheless, you don’t want to make a habit of being safely ugly. You’re not getting paid for that.
          Next down the list is a “wave-off,” a 1.0 grade, defined as “unsettled dynamics, potentially unsafe.” The “eat at Joe’s” lights come on, you add full power, and are asked to try again. Harder.
          Finally comes the worst grade, the “Cut.” A 0.0 grade, defined as “unsafe deviations inside the wave-off window.” The wave-off window is that moment in space and time where no matter what the LSO tells you to do, you’re going to land. Somewhere. You definitely don’t want to get many of those. They’re career enders.
          Anyone who maintains a GPA above 3.0 is professionally safe. Anyone who’s GPA starts with a 2-point-anything had better start work-ing harder.
          The LSO’s use shorthand to grade a pass – something written down as: (OK) OC NEP-BC /IM (NEP-CDIC) SDAR LOBDRIW 2, would translate into, “Fair pass: over-controlled a little not enough power on the ball call, fly through up in the middle, a little not enough power on the come-down in close, settle/decel at the ramp, low, flat, drift right in the wires. Two-wire.” As a pilot, you’d like to hear as few comments as possible, since comment quantity has an inverse relationship to landing quality.
          At the end of every line period (anywhere from three weeks to three months, depending on what the carrier has been doing), the air wing will gather in the ship’s forecastle (pronounced foc’s'l) for an awards ceremony. There are songs, and skits and much buffoonery before awarding those pilots who have passed a milestone (100, 200, 300 traps, etc) and finally the “Top Ten” in landing grades. It’s a lot of fun, especially if you’re in the Top Ten. More especially still if you’re the number one guy, the “Top Hook.”
          Because landing aboard the ship at all hours, and in all conditions, is what we do. I mean, anyone can merely fly a fighter. Right?"
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on January 17, 2014, 11:02:03 pm
Some esoteric info:

“...For the French contingent, the exercise culminated with the deployment of 5 Rafales for 5 days onboard USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN-71). Prior to embarking on the carrier, Flottille 12F pilots performed 4 simulated field deck landings each (2 in daytime & 2 at night) [probably meaning FCLP sessions I guess - 4 total] at NAS Oceana or at nearby Naval Auxiliary Landing Field Fentress. Experienced US Landing Signal Officers (LSOs) were assessing the performance & safety levels of the French Navy aviators before allowing them to trap onboard the carrier. On 19 July 2008, the first Rafale carrier landing was recorded onboard USS Roosevelt. The first 2 days onboard the US vessel were dedicated to Carrier Qualifications & every pilot had to log 10 ‘traps’, 6 in daytime & 4 at night, in order to become fully qualified again....”

http://www.dassault-aviation.com/fileadmin/user_upload/redacteur/Defence/Rafale/foxThree_n12.pdf

FCLP in France: Lann-Bihoué (56). Rafales et Hawkeyes en entraînement d'appontage

[ Invalid YouTube link ]

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/NewerAlbum/RAFALEfclpFLOLSscreeniED.png~original) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/SpazSinbad/media/NewerAlbum/RAFALEfclpFLOLSscreeniED.png.html)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 18, 2014, 05:54:14 am
It was burned with some recording software, there is a Video_RM and Video_TS folder. There are several files inside each, looks like the .VOB is a place to start. I was able to get the .VOB files into windows movie maker, so will go from there.
Goonie,
If there's a Video_TS folder with a bunch of VOB files, then it's definitely a DVD. To my knowledge and experience, the whole video sequence is scattered through those VOB files so I'd recommend to use software specifically created for DVD ripping, top 5 of these you can find here (http://lifehacker.com/380702/five-best-dvd-ripping-tools).

Spaz,
Great video! Looks like the French use their own shore FLOLS. A rather simplified Mk14, I'd say...
Title: vLSO roll back feature
Post by: Paddles on January 18, 2014, 04:33:55 pm
Ok, guys
Today I was able, at last, to film and compose a preview of one of the upcoming 0.8 beta's features - a roll back.

Ugly approaches, the quality of video leaves a lot to be desired - wrong aspect ratio, lack of sound...  :( Hey, who cares... Don't look at that, look how the planes roll back  ;)

And here's that Gaussian rule that rules the rollback:
(http://imageshack.com/a/img713/6738/93e6.jpg)
Each value in column A sets the speed (ft/sec) of the aircraft's backward motion.

Generally I'm happy with what I've got. Maybe some minor corrections to this rule would be needed... You will try, see and decide.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on January 18, 2014, 07:07:19 pm
 :o

That looked like a stationary boat.  How well does the effect work on a moving carrier?

Regardless, this is going to completely change FSX carrier ops.  Amazing work Paddles!!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: DigitAL on January 18, 2014, 08:01:59 pm
Niice!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: mjrhealth on January 18, 2014, 11:44:41 pm
Thanks paddles just keeps gettin better
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on January 19, 2014, 01:12:00 am
Paddles,

The rollback is looking great!

I just recut some of my old FSX footage to showcase vLSO, with music from the JO VFA-37 Cruise video. I also added some new shots from my home pit, flying pitching deck.

&feature=youtu.be

PLAT video is also now on my computer, but can only upload 15 minutes to youtube, so here is a sample:



GOONIE
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on January 19, 2014, 04:34:44 am
'Goonie' your vLSO segment was especially good. Great work on the video. Thanks for that. (I'll look at that PLAT now.)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on January 19, 2014, 07:49:08 am
Goonie that PLAT footage is a damn POT OF GOLD for vLSO audio clips!  Thanks a lot for posting it.

EDIT: Do you know what the story is with AC300 that traps at about 7:00 and then takes about 5 minutes to clear the LA?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 19, 2014, 07:56:44 am
That looked like a stationary boat.  How well does the effect work on a moving carrier?
Yes, it was a stationary boat because of FSrecorder which doesn't replay moving ships.
Of course, the effect works equally well on both moving and statonary ships.

PLAT video is also now on my computer...
Lovely! Plenty of new LSO and marshal calls. 8) If there's a time limit on Youtube then what about other storages (like Google Disk or something) to upload the whole video sequence, so people would be able to d/l and watch it on their PCs?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on January 19, 2014, 08:50:02 am
GoogleDrive was good when I joined with plenty of free space without difficult size restrictions (unlike SkyDrive for example). However it does require registering but that has not been a problem? Don't really know I suppose.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 19, 2014, 02:33:48 pm
For initial CQ I think it would be great if Dino's T-45 was mandatory for this portion.

For undergraduate CQ, any aircraft would be fine. 
Sorry, I'm not sure that the order of CQs is correct  ;)
According to NATOPS:

Undergraduate CQ
Pilot's first day carrier qualifications prior to designation as a Naval Aviator.

Initial CQ
Pilot's first day or day/night carrier qualification as a designated Naval Aviator.

That means they can only fly Undergraduate CQ in the T-45...

However, since there will be no limit to the number of passes used to obtain your minimum number of day/night traps, a way to still increase the challenge would be to have vLSO reject any passes that were flown with ATC APP enaged (or the equivalent autothrottle modes of other aircraft types).  I'm not sure that this is even physically possible to implement, or that anyone else would be interested in such a feature.  It would be great for realism though as ATC APP is not to be used during any CQ event.
By default, in the Hornet (and in other aircrfat) you can toggle Autopilot airspeed hold mode, which was previously discussed here at the FSDT forums (http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,20.msg18915.html#msg18915).
I have tested that Ctrl-R and it really worked!  ;D Did a couple of passes with ATC engaged (see the attached images) - it was real fun and I think I'll have to add this feature to the program. (A) for APC/Auto is a standard LSO notation.  8)
Also I will need some 'ball, auto' and 'roger ball, auto' calls to implement it.

Thanks for this great idea, Pyro!

PS. Oh yeah, I had to add the ATC indication to Neutrino's HUD.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 19, 2014, 03:14:03 pm
Anyone knows what's that two-digit number at the lower right corner of PLAT video?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on January 19, 2014, 08:16:27 pm
Oops!  Didn't even notice that I had those backwards there  :D

In the Rhino it shows as "ATC APP" on the HUD when using ATC in PA mode. Anyone know why they changed it from just "ATC" on the legacies?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Orion on January 19, 2014, 10:12:40 pm
I've heard that number to be the absolute value of the VSI of the aircraft, truncated to the hundreds/tens digits.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on January 20, 2014, 12:06:51 am
'Orion' thanks - it seems the waveoffs show the decreasing rate of descent and I guess the hundreds of feet scale make the changes look rough perhaps.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on January 20, 2014, 02:38:34 am
Thanks Spaz, glad you liked the video. Your input is always valued

EDIT: Do you know what the story is with AC300 that traps at about 7:00 and then takes about 5 minutes to clear the LA?

My buddy said he just got wrapped up in the wire, needed a tow to help get him out. Said it is common. Stinks for all the guys who had to discontinue their approaches, one guy was pretty low on fuel, thought I heard 4.5.

What surprised me is how little is said by the LSOs, I guess the pilots are pretty good, they are over half way through cruise, and "sugar calls" are distracting.

Paddles, the ATC feature would also affect the LSO calls, attitude vs power for ATC vs manual respectfully. There is a decent amount of Auto calls in the plat cam footage I posted, so it could be added "roger ball auto", if vLSO detects ATC engaged.

Orion, is the VSI in feet per minute? Seems like the values are too high, I would expect to see 600-700 fpm for a 3.5 degree glideslope. Maybe they were running a higher g/s? Or my math is off.

I'll try to post more footage.

Goonie

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Orion on January 20, 2014, 03:16:46 am
I don't know, but that's what I recall hearing from Sludge.  I thought the values were a bit high for feet per minute myself.  Before I heard from Sludge, I think J.R. might have said it has to do with wind speed.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on January 20, 2014, 07:52:02 am
The USN needs an "ASK Naval Aviation Questions" [which can be answered] web page!  ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 20, 2014, 09:16:08 am
This is what I've found in Neutrino's PLAT_camera XML gauge for this value: 'ACLS time to touchdown'.
But looking closely at the video I'm thinking that this number is for something else, it's neither VSI nor time to touchdown. At the wires, when an aircraft has landed and decelerates, this number still reads 15 or something.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on January 20, 2014, 03:06:32 pm
Quote
My buddy said he just got wrapped up in the wire

I didn't know that even happened.  Interesting to see it unfold.

Quote
Maybe they were running a higher g/s?

Even running at the max IFLOLS glideslope of 4.0 I don't think you would see descent rates of -1500FPM.  That's nearly a 6 degree descent I believe.

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on January 20, 2014, 09:11:44 pm
Probably I have not viewed enough ILARTS / PLAT footage to take notice of the lower right corner number. My other guess would be WOD? Bearing in mind that wind over the sea can be variable to some extent but not turbulent as seen over land/obstacles/etc.

Next question: Does a CVN keep a constant speed during long night carrier ops (probably not worthwhile changing speed during breaks in day ops intervals) when flight ops start for example - or stop/starting - as we see in the video.

My assumption being that slowing the CVN can reduce the need for navigation changes later. Then CVN speeds up before aircraft is in the groove to have required minimum WOD (seen in first part of video - I think 10 which increases to 15 or thereabouts). Yes there is an ideal WOD however due sea conditions on this night the CVN may be slower but still within safe minimums?

Just spitballin' (guessing). Will be nice to know what that number is.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Victory103 on January 21, 2014, 05:00:24 am
It's been well over 10 yrs since I've been on the boat, but I was always told the bottom numbers were from the ACLS feed. Trying to research it as well.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 22, 2014, 04:13:12 am
Ok,
Here are my latest changes to the CQ definitions:

Undergraduate CQ
Pilot’s first day carrier qualifications prior to designation as a Naval Aviator.
14 day landings, 10 of which shall be arrested.

Initial CQ
Pilot’s first day or day/night carrier qualification as a designated Naval Aviator.
10 day arrested landings and 6 night arrested landings.

Requalification CQ
Pilot’s day/night currency exceeds 365 days but less than four years.
6 day arrested landings and 4 night arrested landings.

A FCLP refresher (or period) consists of 6 night passes, which are mandatory, and shall be completed within 7 days. Day passes are optional and the number of these passes is unlimited.

No longer than 7 days shall elapse between the last FCLP period and the first carrier landing.

Carrier qualification of any type shall be completed within a 7-day period.


Question to VRS SuperHornet drivers:
During a carrier approach, are you able to toggle the autothrottle function using the default Ctrl-R? Or you have to push/turn/switch something in the cockpit?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on January 22, 2014, 05:31:13 am
Paddles the new CQ requirements look great, particularly the FCLP refresher.

As for the VRS, the Aircraft Config Manager (ACM) has it's own set of user changeable keystrokes that override FSX keystrokes.  That being said, the DEFAULT VRS autothrottle keystroke in the ACM is indeed Ctrl-R (the autothrottle control in the F-18 is on the back of the left engine throttle, so there's no way you could toggle it in the VC). It could easily be changed to something else.  I think that since VRS uses it's own key mappings you might have a hard time getting vLSO to recognize if ATC APP is being used or not for users of the Superbug since the keystrokes are so heavily modified.  The ACM does provide a way to disable many of the keystroke overrides, so perhaps you could just put a note in the manual stating that for vLSO to recognize the VRS ATC APP being toggled, you must first disable it in the ACM and use the default FSX Ctrl-R.

That was a really long post just to basically say "Yes the Superbug uses Ctrl-R"  ::)

If you need any more info about the Superbug let me know.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 22, 2014, 06:17:46 am
Roger.
Actually vLSO doesn't catch keystrokes but simulation events and variables like 'AUTOPILOT AIRSPEED HOLD', so I think it's possibly will work with the SH. Should ask VRS devs...
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on January 22, 2014, 03:21:11 pm
Duh, I should have known that...

I posted on the VRS forums about it, I'll let you know what they say.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 22, 2014, 03:40:51 pm
Already got their response - no chance, they're not using FSX auto throttle, it's in their own code...
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on January 22, 2014, 03:44:43 pm
could you monitor an LVar or offset for VRS's ATC?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 22, 2014, 04:56:18 pm
Not yet...  :( Those LVars are real pain in FSX world... Keep reading devs' forums and will try to get to these vars from my program.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on January 24, 2014, 08:49:29 pm
Hey Goonie, I noticed the you took down the PLAT footage.  Any chance of getting that back up or was having it up on youtube a no-no?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on January 24, 2014, 09:29:06 pm
Pyro, just shot you a PM, hopefully that works  8)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on January 24, 2014, 11:06:22 pm
Got the PM, but the video refuses to play.  I load up the URL, I see the video player and the preview image, as well as the length of 15:08, but when I click play, nothing happens for about 30 seconds and then the length changes to 0:01 and there's nothing. I'll try to download it and see if I can play it locally.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 25, 2014, 07:51:58 am
Guys,
Here's (http://vlso.blogspot.com/2014/01/beta-08-wip-2.html) my quick WIP report (mostly with new GUI features)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: ExNusquam on January 25, 2014, 08:55:01 am
Looks great! Looking forward to the release.

On the symbols; maybe you could just swap the moon out for a yellow 3? For day Case 3 approaches, you can just have a 3 on a blue background.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Orion on January 25, 2014, 09:32:49 am
I agree with Joe.  I feel strange having a column mixed with numbers and graphics without a legend.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 25, 2014, 09:44:57 am
No objections  ;)
My thought was that all night approaches are CASE 3 so I decided to use a moon symbol instead of a number..

Yellow 3 on a black background will be fine. Just as black 1, 2 and 3 on a blue bkg for all possible day CASE variations (not shown on those screenshots).

Will give it a try and show you its new look  :)

EDIT
See the attached screenshot. If you have no questions, then we hit the spot  ;)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on January 25, 2014, 04:27:08 pm
Nice work Paddles. The slight color change for the daytime Case 1,2, and 3 looks great.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Orion on January 25, 2014, 07:58:43 pm
I actually feel sort of out of the loop -- I know there are different cases (as indicated by the numbers), but what do the different shades of blue represent?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: ExNusquam on January 25, 2014, 09:39:07 pm
On a limb here; I'd assume they represent worse weather as you move from visual recoveries to instrument recoveries.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 26, 2014, 06:46:36 am
Correct! The heavier skies the darker shades of blue. I thought this would help for easier CASE tracking
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on January 27, 2014, 11:21:09 pm
Paddles,

Over on the VRS Forums I've been trying to help a guy get vLSO running on his machine, and after running out of ideas he mentioned that he didn't have acceleration, so obviously vLSO won't work. Adiemus then suggested that future versions of vLSO could incorporate an FSX version checking utility of sorts to warn if they are using an unsupported version of FSX.  Or you could just tell them to RTFM  ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Orion on January 28, 2014, 02:23:41 am
Do the background colors correspond to different weather conditions or different cases?

I think the number alone would be sufficient to inform the user of the case.  I think it would be simpler and more intuitive if the background color only conveyed one type of information.  For example, dark for night and bright for day, instead of that and also different colors for different cases/weather conditions.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 28, 2014, 04:38:27 am
Orion,
The colors correspond to different cases (which usually have certain conection with weather conditions, right?). To my personal taste, different colors would help differentiate one case approaches from others...  ;)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 29, 2014, 05:37:40 pm
Ok, guys
Once again about the colors...  :)

During my last FCLP tests of the program I thought that it would be convenient to color all passes of the same period, so you could easily spot qual or FCLP period passes, as well as tell one qual/period from another (that's the purpose of a subtle color difference of two adjacent odd and even periods on the attached image).

What do you guys think? Is it worth implementing?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on January 29, 2014, 06:34:17 pm
Paddles,

Looking good. I like it. Another thing LSOs do besides grade approaches, is report trends. Could vLSO do this for a given period? Up for discussion and I understand could be a significant amount of work. What I was thinking is after a period if you are continuously (LO)AR or Fast at the X, you would get a trend note (not sure how to implement, or what is considered a trend? +3 times?), so you know what to work on for next time. Just a thought. Don't want to slow down the release of beta .8, can't wait!

Also wanted to share that I found out what the number in the lower right corner of the PLAT cam is, it’s rate of descent in ft/sec. You need to multiply by 60 or just 6 to get the ft/min.

GOONIE


Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: syn on January 29, 2014, 09:34:33 pm
My only issue with the new version(s) is that, with the T-45, when rolling out for a 15-18 second groove, my ball call is not getting registered as it seems to be done too close for vLSO. Thus I cannot see the ball call in the debrief nor the groove time (it says 0.0) I normally also get a "work on your lineup" call when I'm about to finish rolling out.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on January 30, 2014, 12:41:29 am
Thanks Goonie for info on that mysterious number!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on January 30, 2014, 03:12:46 am
Another thing LSOs do besides grade approaches, is report trends. Could vLSO do this for a given period?
Yeah, I have this feature on my to-do list (though on its bottom part). This gonna be an APARTS-like trend analysis table.

EDIT. Something like the Figure 2 of the attached PDF (thanks Spaz again for this info)

Also wanted to share that I found out what the number in the lower right corner of the PLAT cam is, it’s rate of descent in ft/sec. You need to multiply by 60 or just 6 to get the ft/min.
Roger that  8)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on January 30, 2014, 05:36:15 pm
Paddles,
Figure 2 and 3 from the APARTS document is exactly what I am talking about, great find BTW!

Just please don't require us to use a HP 9845 to view trends, with its whopping 2.3MB of storage and 187KB read/write memory  ;D :o

GOONIE
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on February 01, 2014, 05:04:16 am
Cannot remember if this PDF was sent to 'Paddles'/'FSXnavyPilot some time ago - so here it is again anyways plus added to the file attachments below:

Automated Trend Analysis for Navy-Carrier Landing Attempts
Neil C. Rowe | U.S. Naval Postgraduate School | Dec 2012
ABSTRACT
"A replacement system IPARTS is being built for the current U.S. Navy APARTS handheld data-entry device that records evaluations of landings of pilots on aircraft carriers. Navy aircraft are difficult to land and costly to repair, and extensive training and performance monitoring is important. Part of this task includes summarizing older data on landing attempts for comparison of pilot performances. We built tools for analyzing trends exhibited by pilots, pilot groups, aircraft, and evaluators in regard to grades, landing details, and verbal comments. Results are shown on a sample of 85,571 passes representing about 20% of the current Navy records, a significantly larger study than has ever been conducted. These results enabled building several kinds of predictive models of pilot performance which help identify particular pilot problems, and this should help in designing training programs.

Fairness of grading of pilots was also assessed by comparisons between military units, aircraft, and graders. The most novel part of the research was understanding and computing statistics on the comments, which are in a telegraphic format using a unique language; a 2433-rule standardization routine and a parser were built to interpret them. Comments were essential in understanding the context of grades. The comment counts were also especially helpful in designing a user interface for a replacement grading device we designed and tested. This work should provide new insights into the performance of military pilots."
http://faculty.nps.edu/ncrowe/rowe_itsec12_paper12247.htm
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on February 01, 2014, 06:25:09 am
Yes, you have already sent this doc to me  :)

However 'Landing problem profile' shown on Figure 2 of the former PDF is what I'm going to implement. It is pretty much informative and easy to read.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on February 01, 2014, 09:40:50 am
Here it is:
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: syn on February 02, 2014, 01:41:00 pm
Just some wishful thinking.

In most of the public (aka youtube) PLAT videos I have seen the most common LSO call by far is "power" or similar... However I barely hear that one with vLSO.

On the other hand, I get plenty of "don't settle" advisories, that actually prompt me to add power (unless I am fast).

(http://s14.postimg.org/5hcuwjrkx/corr.png)

So what about increasing the number of "power" calls against "don't settle" when the AOA is within the E (or maybe within the slow side but still within the E) and going below the GS?

Aside from that. I would like to extend on what I reported on my previous post about vLSO not recording my ball call when I turn inside the ball call range hardcoded.

(http://s30.postimg.org/ixzz0q7oh/vlso.png)

As you can see the WOD and TIG don't get recorded, the "ball" audio doesn't play either. This is with Dino's T-45 and, although I didn't time, I am pretty sure it was 15+ seconds in the groove
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: ExNusquam on February 02, 2014, 05:30:00 pm
WOD and TIG are only recorded if you actually called the ball. If you are going to turn in tight, you need to use manual ball call, which will work.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on February 02, 2014, 06:47:08 pm
Syn I agree with your observations. I get a lot of don't settle calls too.

I think the three most common calls in the RW ops are: little power, easy with it, and right for line up. It would be great to have vLSO mimic these, or give these more often, but will have to hear how Paddles implemented it, maybe we are settling too much. Can't argue with paddles in real life or virtual paddles in fsx :-X.

Paddles, I was thinking with your new export feature, to parse the data in the .csv file by groove position, lineup, glideslope, speed, repeat. For example:

X, LuL, 0, 0, IM, 0, (HI), 0, IC, 0, HI, 0, AR, 0, (HI), 0

Then one could import into excel and make a pivot table to recreate figure 2 from the APARTS doc to monitor trends.

Goonie
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: mjrhealth on February 09, 2014, 08:00:52 pm
HI,

Where does one get the slow fast numbers for in teh aircraft settings. Is this a trial and error thing. I also noticed the A4 and Tomcat where missing from the last release
.

Ta
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on February 13, 2014, 12:17:26 am
VFA-213 Black Lions Greenie Board Screen Shot right at the end of this two minute movie as described:

All hands on deck By Katie Perdaris

http://www.boeing.com/boeing/Features/2014/01/bds_carrier_01_28_14.page

“Crew members in Flight Deck Control alter the Ouija board, a waist-high replica of the flight deck at 1/16 scale, showing the status of the deck in real time.

In December a group of Boeing employees visited the USS George H.W. Bush at sea to get a feel for what life is like aboard an aircraft carrier, and to see F/A-18 Hornets and Super Hornets in action and meet the sailors who fly and maintain them. The ship’s crew of 5,000 worked together seamlessly to keep the ship operating around the clock.

Capt. Dan Cheever, Commander Carrier Air Wing 8, said communication and teamwork is essential. “It’s much like a football team or any other team. You have to work together, you have to communicate and you have to have mutual respect and demand the performance out of your team.”

Watch the video to hear more from the crew about teamwork and life aboard.”

VIDEO: http://bcove.me/9o8b4n6y

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/NewerAlbum/VFA-213GreenieBoardBlackLionsUSSbush.png~original) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/SpazSinbad/media/NewerAlbum/VFA-213GreenieBoardBlackLionsUSSbush.png.html)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on February 20, 2014, 05:25:55 pm
Ok guys
The new 0.8 beta is here (http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,4915.msg45464.html#msg45464)

Don't worry about the new logbook format - the program will automatically convert your logbook to the new format, the LDF, provided the logbook was created by vLSO of the 0.7 series. The original DAT file will be renamed to Logbook.old.

Also, I'd suggest to move (not just copy) the Sound folder to a safe place and replace it with a new one from the package.

Well... Download, unzip, read that manual and have a good weekend flying with the new program!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on February 20, 2014, 08:17:38 pm
Very Nice Paddles,

Can I add additional "Marshall" sound files using the same file naming structure? For example would it be 1mile_.wav, or 1mile_1.wav or 1mile1.wav? If I wanted different calls at 1 mile.

I see you added a couple "roger ball Auto" and "wave off foul deck" audio files, is this a place holder or is this working?

I think you have a great mix of LSO audio files, do they all have triggers with the program? I say this because I have never heard a lot of them as I am reviewing the files, maybe because I fly such great approaches  ::)

Also I noticed you added Clara lineup to the manual call, can we now call both clara ball and lineup? Or just one at a time.

Anyways, thanks for all the hard work brother!

GOONIE
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on February 20, 2014, 08:25:25 pm
Quote
maybe because I fly such great approaches

I guess I do too since I haven't heard most of them either  ;)

Thanks for the hard work Paddles.  Really REALLY excited to fly with this tonight after work.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on February 21, 2014, 03:46:40 am
Can I add additional "Marshall" sound files using the same file naming structure? For example would it be 1mile_.wav, or 1mile_1.wav or 1mile1.wav? If I wanted different calls at 1 mile.
No, the program currently uses only 1mile.wav. All others are just renamed alternatives. Should I use the same technique as with LSO calls, i.e. random selection?

I see you added a couple "roger ball Auto" and "wave off foul deck" audio files, is this a place holder or is this working?
'Roger ball auto' is a placeholder (still not decided on how to detect ATC approaches). WOFD will be implemented in one of the nearest betas.

I think you have a great mix of LSO audio files, do they all have triggers with the program? I say this because I have never heard a lot of them as I am reviewing the files, maybe because I fly such great approaches  ::)
Only five or six of them remain unused so you definitely fly great approaches...  ;D
I also plan to work on frequent 'dont settle/dont climb' calls and I'm gonna use that recent Figure 13, posted by syn.

Also I noticed you added Clara lineup to the manual call, can we now call both clara ball and lineup? Or just one at a time.

I guess you can  ;) Just didn't test these two manual calls during the same approach.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on February 21, 2014, 04:11:54 pm
Paddles,

Very nice work as usual!  8)

Can I add additional "Marshall" sound files using the same file naming structure? For example would it be 1mile_.wav, or 1mile_1.wav or 1mile1.wav? If I wanted different calls at 1 mile.
No, the program currently uses only 1mile.wav. All others are just renamed alternatives. Should I use the same technique as with LSO calls, i.e. random selection?

Not critical, I was just thinking if you used the same technique as the LSO calls, I could add some "discontinue approach take angles 1.2" calls from the recent PLAT cam footage I have. I could add these files to the Marshall calls folder, and they would be randomly called.

Did a test flight last night in the VRS F/A-18E, couple things to report:

- I mainly use the manual ball and clara call feature, and when I hit the manual ball trigger now I hear the "ball" audio play, and then immediately get a the "roger ball". In the old vLSO implementation you didn't hear the virtual pilot call "ball", and the timing delay allowed for you to say "Rhino ball, 6.9" before vLSO called "roger ball". Is there a way to go back to the old manual ball call feature and timing? I deleted the "ball" calls from the LSO sound folder which solved the audio piece, but the timing is too fast following the manual trigger to make a normal ball call.

- The manual ball call works (vLSO recognizes the trigger) on the first pass, but on every other pass when I hit the manual ball call trigger I get no joy from vLSO. If I hit the manual Clara call on the second or third pass, vLSO recognizes it and then I can hit the manual ball and it works. Not sure what is going on here, but I tried this a few times and had similar results, first pass works on manual ball call, subsequent passes do not work with manual ball call unless clara is hit first.

- Does vLSO give you a WO call if you don't call the ball (when in Manual mode)? Got a WO call and was not sure why, could have been a bad trend in my approach or linked to the manual ball call issue I am having.

- Auto ball calls work fine with the program so far.

- Got a lot of "don't settle" calls, but see that you are working this based on your latest post, thanks!  ;D

- Got a WOP call with a bad approach, very cool!  8)

- After a bolter the vLSO doesn't select random new audio files from the LSO sound folder, is that hard to change?

- If you get the ATC monitor feature to work, another cool feature would be to monitor the state of the aircraft external lights. After you trap at night, if you do not turn off the lights within 3-4 seconds, vLSO could call "lights" or "lights on deck". I have both of these LSO calls.

 
GOONIE
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: ExNusquam on February 21, 2014, 05:48:23 pm
Goonie, For the VRS rollback issue, you can turn off the VRS brake setting via the VRS Misc. -> Carrier options menu.

I've also noticed the same issue as Goonie in regards to being unable to make a manual ball call unless I call clara first. I haven't tried it with manual ball enabled and manual clara disabled, however. This only happens after the first approach.

Also, on the FCLP page, night FCLP passes are listed by the same Case 3 symbol CV passes are listed with. As this CNTRA PPT (http://www.cnatra.navy.mil/ebrief/documents/02_Training_Air_Wing_Two/03_MPTS%20(.167)/17_Adv.%20Jet%20-%20CQL/SUPPLEMENTS/SUPPLEMENTAL%20DOCUMENTS/FCLP-SIM%20LECTURE.ppt) states "Night FCLP procedurally are no different" and there is modification to the overhead pattern (60° AOB max). Could you create a night case 1 symbol for FCLP?

As for grading approaches, WOP is great. Got dinged for turning in early a few times...nice that vLSO finally enforces groove length.

Also in grading, I feel like the grades are a bit high; I finished my initial CQ period in .8 with 6 OK passes. A few of them even had comments on them. I feel like OK passes should be exceptional when you get them. I'm not sure if you can do a separate locus for just OK with much tighter restrictions, so that it's only possible to fly it on really, really good days.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on February 21, 2014, 06:20:49 pm
Also in grading, I feel like the grades are a bit high; I finished my initial CQ period in .8 with 6 OK passes. A few of them even had comments on them. I feel like OK passes should be exceptional when you get them. I'm not sure if you can do a separate locus for just OK with much tighter restrictions, so that it's only possible to fly it on really, really good days.

I agree, changing the criteria to make it harder to get an OK would be great. I believe Paddles was looking at ways to monitor emergencies (e.g. engine out), and reserve the OK for those approaches.

My buddy who flies for VFA-37 got a OK on cruise when his HUD failed during a night trap. He did get comments from the LSO, (S.DLAR), so I guess comments are given even for an OK. I think the main thing is it has to be some extenuating circumstance (e.g. an emergency) combined with a solid pass that gets you the highest grade.

GOONIE
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on February 21, 2014, 08:23:47 pm
Back in the olden days (1980) April when I think VF-805 were flying A4Gs in RIMPAC 1980 aboard HMAS Melbourne the SP (Senior Pilot = XO) himself an LSO (the first jet LSO in the RAN since the prop days of yore - no LSOs in Sea Venom era) was able to snag a perfect OK pass underlined no comments. BTW 'Stumpf' is LEUT Bob Stumpf USN on exchange, who went on to be a Blue Angels Leader later in the Hornet era [led the team from November 1992 to November 1994]. Top of page on left he gets an OK 4 wire (target). Old Stumpf PBS interview transcript here: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/navy/oldnew/stumpf2.html

Bob was exonerated from all charges from TAILHOOK '91: http://articles.latimes.com/1993-10-08/news/mn-43590_1_blue-angels

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/SpazSinbad019/OKperfectNoCommentVF-805apr1980SPforum.gif~original) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/SpazSinbad/media/SpazSinbad019/OKperfectNoCommentVF-805apr1980SPforum.gif.html)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on February 21, 2014, 08:51:33 pm
Spaz,
Didn't know you could get an OK on a T/G. Your picture brings up another point that I noticed when my friend sent me his LSO score, looks like LSO short hand is different then currently implemented in vLSO. Looks like the LSO's grade includes deviations with the approach position all in one blurb, so (HIC), not (H)IC. It also combines several deviation for the same approach position with '.'  , so (H.LULIM), not (HLUL)IM.

Paddles, is it possible to update this shorthand? Not sure if it is even possible.

GOONIE

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on February 21, 2014, 10:04:47 pm
Goonie, I'm not an LSO. The logbook is from early 1980 [LSO scribble today is probably different following latest LSO NATOPS] with two different LSOs recording approaches 'Baddams' is an A4G pilot (right hand page) whilst 'Wilson' is likely an S-2 pilot with VS-816 (I do not think he is A4G). The LSOs in the RAN were trained in the USofA at the LSO School. More than that I cannot say because I was out of the RAN FAA by mid 1975, whilst the LSO logbook is held at FAAM (Fleet Air Arm Museum) at NAS Nowra, NSW, Australia it is available in PDF Format here:

SpazSinbad Page Microsoft OneDrive:
FOLDER: FAA A-4G Skyhawk RAN PDFs
File Name: VF-805-LSO-log-Early1980pp81context.PDF (49Mb)
https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=cbcd63d6340707e6&sa=822839791#cid=CBCD63D6340707E6&id=CBCD63D6340707E6%21119

SAME PDF on GoogleDrive:
https://drive.google.com/?authuser=0#folders/0BwBlvCQ7o4F_aDhIQ0szeVJFY0U
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on February 23, 2014, 06:18:05 pm
Guys, thanks for the good feedback!

...I could add some "discontinue approach take angles 1.2" calls from the recent PLAT cam footage I have. I could add these files to the Marshall calls folder, and they would be randomly called.
Please more info on why and when do they call those "discontinue approach..." ?

Quote from: GOONIE
...Is there a way to go back to the old manual ball call feature and timing?
Fixed

Quote from: GOONIE
The manual ball call works (vLSO recognizes the trigger) on the first pass, but on every other pass when I hit the manual ball call trigger I get no joy from vLSO. ...
Fixed

Quote from: GOONIE
- Does vLSO give you a WO call if you don't call the ball (when in Manual mode)?
Actually it's a WOP, and you can see in the vLSO_log.txt file a 'Waveoff pattern (no pilot response)' record

Quote from: GOONIE
- Got a lot of "don't settle" calls, but see that you are working this based on your latest post, thanks!  ;D
Keep working on it

Quote from: GOONIE
- After a bolter the vLSO doesn't select random new audio files from the LSO sound folder, is that hard to change?
Fixed, also added randomization after each FCLP pass

Quote from: GOONIE
- If you get the ATC monitor feature to work, another cool feature would be to monitor the state of the aircraft external lights. After you trap at night, if you do not turn off the lights within 3-4 seconds, vLSO could call "lights" or "lights on deck". I have both of these LSO calls.
ATC problem still unsolved. I believe it's ok to monitor the AC lights state, but I don't have any info. Could you be more specific on this?..

... "Night FCLP procedurally are no different" and there is modification to the overhead pattern (60° AOB max). Could you create a night case 1 symbol for FCLP?
A yellow 1 on black? Or just a solid black square, w/o CASE number?

Quote from: Joeairplane79
Also in grading, I feel like the grades are a bit high; I finished my initial CQ period in .8 with 6 OK passes. A few of them even had comments on them. I feel like OK passes should be exceptional when you get them. I'm not sure if you can do a separate locus for just OK with much tighter restrictions, so that it's only possible to fly it on really, really good days.
I agree an OK should not be that easy to score grade  ;)

And another grade has been added - OWO (own waveoff). This is for those perhaps rare but still possible occasions when a pilot aborts his landing somewhere near the ramp. Current vLSO would grade such an approach as if it were a successful landing, but w/o wire number.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: jeff64 on February 23, 2014, 07:22:27 pm
I believe it's ok to monitor the AC lights state, but I don't have any info. Could you be more specific on this?..

On night, aircraft on deck turn all lights off.

Lights are turned ON when ready to launch (instead of "salute" on day)
Lights are turned OFF when fully stopped after trap, while raising hook, signaling ready to taxi.
If an aircraft forgot to turn lights OFF after trapping (or any turn on any lights on deck, excepted aircraft on cat) air boss should issue a "lights" or "lights on deck" call.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on February 23, 2014, 07:43:43 pm
From 01 May 2009 LSO NATOPS manual (the latest one I have and I think available online) has these notes about symbology:

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/NewerAlbum/LSOnatopsSymbols1.gif~original) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/SpazSinbad/media/NewerAlbum/LSOnatopsSymbols1.gif.html)
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/NewerAlbum/LSOnatopsSymbols2a.gif~original) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/SpazSinbad/media/NewerAlbum/LSOnatopsSymbols2a.gif.html)
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/NewerAlbum/LSOnatopsSymbols2b.gif~original) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/SpazSinbad/media/NewerAlbum/LSOnatopsSymbols2b.gif.html)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on February 23, 2014, 08:19:07 pm
Hey Paddles, I've been dying to test this all week, only to find that no matter what I do I can't connect vLSO to FSX.  SimConnect light is green but FSX light is always red.  I tried starting vLSO before FSX and after FSX, but no joy.  Anyone else having any problems?

EDIT: I reverted to 0.7.1.2 and it also is unable to connect to FSX, so I'm pretty sure it is something local to my system.  Time to start uninstalling things one by one I guess to see what the problem is  ???

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: ExNusquam on February 23, 2014, 08:56:12 pm
If you need to test the simconnect interface, there's a quick program you can use in the SimConnect SDK called "AI Traffic.exe". If it displays "connected to flight simulator" your simconnect is working, and the problem is something else, if it displays otherwise, somethings wrong with your simconnect config.

Quote
A yellow 1 on black? Or just a solid black square, w/o CASE number?
A black square with a yellow 1 would be great, I think.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on February 24, 2014, 03:03:03 am
So here is my dilemma.  I do not have the FSX SDK installed because I purchased a digital version of FSX acceleration through the "Games for Windows Live" marketplace.  I have tried everything I can think of, including uninstalling the addons that I have installed since last using 0.7.1.2.  Still the same problem, no matter what the FSX light on VLSO stays red.  While I technically could GET the SDK by completely uninstalling, and reinstalling FSX from the GFWL marketplace, I really would rather NOT have to do that, as it must first download the 10GB installation files, and then install it which takes about 5-6 hours total to download and install, not to mention the hours spent reinstalling my various ORBX sceneries and REX textures.  Any chance I could get someone to send me their three simconnect.dll files JUST TO TEST THEM and see if I'm having issues with simconnect?  It would really suck to reinstall ALL of FSX and then still have the same issue.  :'(
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on February 24, 2014, 05:21:54 pm
Thanks Paddles, look forward to the updates!  ;)

...I could add some "discontinue approach take angles 1.2" calls from the recent PLAT cam footage I have. I could add these files to the Marshall calls folder, and they would be randomly called.
Please more info on why and when do they call those "discontinue approach..." ?

I noticed on the PLAT cam footage when the Hornet got wrapped up in the wires for ~10 minutes, several aircraft on final, <3NM, were told to discontinue approach and take angles 1.2 straight ahead. I know it must be frustrating for the pilots coming down the chute to get this call, but you can't control when the deck is fouled. I thought a good way to simulate this would be to add one or two of these discontinue calls to the Marshall sound folder, and if vLSO randomly selects it, it would simulate a random fouled deck. Not sure if it would work with vLSO, or if you would keep getting the same discontinue call from vLSO if the folder is not randomized for each approach. I also have a couple other sound clips for the mile callouts, which I could add to the folder if it was randomized like the main sound folder.

If you get the ATC monitor feature to work, another cool feature would be to monitor the state of the aircraft external lights. After you trap at night, if you do not turn off the lights within 3-4 seconds, vLSO could call "lights" or "lights on deck". I have both of these LSO calls.
ATC problem still unsolved. I believe it's ok to monitor the AC lights state, but I don't have any info. Could you be more specific on this?..

I think Jeff64 answered this well. I saw this happen on the PLAT cam footage twice, both times the pilot got a little low at the ramp. I presume the pilots were a little shaken up after the low approach and forgot to turn off all lights after trapping, resulting in the "lights" call. I've also done this in FSX, but didn't realize it until I was on the catapult and ready to go. When I went to switch on all lights (pinky switch) to signal ready on the CAT, my lights were already on,  :-[.  I thought it would be cool for vLSO to make the "lights" call during night approaches if you don't turn your lights off after trapping. Basically you would get a friendly reminder as they do in real life. The call should be delayed ~5 seconds, to give the pilot a chance to catch up to the aircraft after trapping.

Spaz,

Thanks for the LSO shorthand, understand the . and - mean something different then what I was thinking. Does it make sense to you what "on" or "to" means? The example the give was "slow on line up in close". Does that mean they took too much time (e.g. slow) to line up the aircraft in close? Or their airspeed was too slow when they were lining up the aircraft in close? Same question for the "to" or -. Thanks.


GOONIE
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on February 25, 2014, 12:53:42 am
I'm not trained as an LSO 'Goonie'. My guess would be the aircraft is slow (not slow to line up) in the example given. Why? Because it is important compared to how fast/slow one might be to line up - which gets to be irrelevant in close considering the lack of time available to do anything about it - power is more or less instant though to get back on speed. If bad line up further out then probably a wave off is called for, however anyone can get slow all of a sudden - anywhere - by taking off too much power or whatever for too long. Just my guess though.

"High in middle to in close" would mean IMHO that the aircraft is high during that part of the approach as defined (between middle and in close).

This is LSO shorthand which may not obey ordinary rules of English grammar. Not that youse Americans do that much anyway.  ;D So the mixture of shorthand when put 'into a sentence' may appear odd to those wanting to see 'proper Engrish'.  ::) ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on February 25, 2014, 06:26:21 am
Ok, here's the results of my quick investigation of external lights. The aircraft tested are: the Acceleration/Sludge  F18, the FSXBA F18, the F14 and T45 (both Dino's)

LightsF18F18BAF14T45
Strobe++++
Landing++++
Taxi-+++
Beacon++-+
Nav++++
Logo--++
Wing--++
Recognition  ++--

As you can see, there's no uniformity in using the lights and various modelers use them differently.
For example, both F18s use strobe lights as formation lights, whereas both Dino's aircraft use logo lights for this purpose. Both F18s use nav and recognition lights simultaneously (bound to one cockpit switch). The FSXBA F18 toggles both landing and taxi lights when you toggle its landing light switch...

That being said I'll have to check ALL these 8 lights' state to make sure the pilot turned his lights off after a successful night trap.

Now to LSO comments. I guess that (S.LUIC) means "a little settle on lineup in close", not "slow on line up in close", which is something different  ;)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on February 25, 2014, 08:40:00 am
OK I follow the 'settle' (S) rather than 'slow' (SLO). I did not check. The 'settle' on 'lineup in close' makes sense in that if a little power is not added (then taken off again and etc.) during the lineup then the aircraft will settle - power is required to allow for the loss of lift due wing waggle on lineup. I'll guess the parentheses are around the entire shorthand (example) including e.g. but whatever.  ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on February 25, 2014, 09:37:30 am
Spaz,
...I noticed when my friend sent me his LSO score, looks like LSO short hand is different then currently implemented in vLSO. Looks like the LSO's grade includes deviations with the approach position all in one blurb, so (HIC), not (H)IC.

Paddles, is it possible to update this shorthand? Not sure if it is even possible.

I remember we were discussing this back in 2011 (http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,4138.msg38374.html#msg38374)...
One of the reasons of this current implementation of shorthand is perhaps an excessive verbosity of LSO comments. Something like this H_LUL_(SLO)IM is still possible, that's why IM portion is moved out of () blurb... I'm not happy with this either and I'd like to add more 'brains' to the program, so it would produce more reasonable (NEP)IM or (NEPIM) :)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on February 25, 2014, 03:13:29 pm
http://www.navy.mil/ah_online/deptStory.asp?dep=3&id=75777 (http://www.navy.mil/ah_online/deptStory.asp?dep=3&id=75777)  8)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on February 25, 2014, 03:21:55 pm
Now to LSO comments. I guess that (S.LUIC) means "a little settle on lineup in close", not "slow on line up in close", which is something different  ;)

Paddles,
Roger that on the lights, thanks for checking. I guess you could just check the Nav and Strobe lights (consistent across all aircraft) as a start, better then nothing. I understand the aircraft might still have other lights on, but those are two main ones to check.

Also, my bad on the S.LUIC. That makes more sense, but leads to another question; vLSO calls a lot of "don't settle" on my approaches, but I have never seen a settle note in the debrief shorthand. Is that correct?

GOONIE
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on February 25, 2014, 04:42:01 pm
...vLSO calls a lot of "don't settle" on my approaches, but I have never seen a settle note in the debrief shorthand. Is that correct?
Correct.
Bear in mind its a beta. A lot to improve and change...  ;)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on February 25, 2014, 06:55:48 pm
Roger that Paddles, it is already a fantastic program even if it is only beta. Thanks again for all you do for the flight sim community. 

GOONIE
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on February 25, 2014, 11:15:43 pm
The most recent NFO training PDF has LSO Radio calls - their meaning/response which may be helpful.

FROM: http://www.cnatra.navy.mil/pubs/folder5/NFO_SNFO/P-816.PDF
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on February 26, 2014, 06:08:18 am
Spaz how the HELL do you manage to find all this stuff?!  That doc is a freakin gold mine of information! Really enjoyed reading about the holding patterns and entry to the CV pattern during Case 1.  I never knew any of how that was done until now.  Pretty cool!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on February 26, 2014, 08:03:05 am
'pyro' I'm glad you enjoy the info. Over the last decade (yes that is correct) on and off I have been researching 'how to deck land' yesterday, today and tomorrow - ever since I was able to access the internet reliably (now via broadband which makes things very easy compared to slow dialup speeds). WhY? Because I'm interested and because I have been working over this same time to make a PDF (available online along with a separate 'how deck land' which is also in the A4G PDF) about the history of the RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk. My searching / interest takes me all kinds of places - including here because ever since MsFlightSim has been available I have looked for some decent NavAv aircraft/carriers. At last FSX Accel made these available along with the excellent free aircraft from Dino Cattaneo such as the Goshawks T-45C - which is like an A4G - easy to fly, single engine etc. with no fancy doodads. An A4G was all manual as they say - nothing fancy but really good at carrier approaches with just the age old simple technique of 'meatball - line up - and airspeed (Opt AoA)'.  ::)

Always the material online has been free to download. Some people respond by sending me or pointing to new / better information which is then included and so the PDFs are updated every now and then. Currently I'm working on recasting the A4G/How to deck land PDF by deleting all the non NavAv material (including those AirForce Skyhawk users mostly). This will take some time. However the 'how to deck land' notes may be updated soon when I get around to it.  ;D

I had the T-45C material in the PDF ever since it started because it quite adequately explains the basics very well. However keep in mind the A4G/RAN FAA Fixed Wing PDF necessarily had to concentrate on the Skyhawk so a lot of 'extra' NavAv material was not included. Hence a separate 'NavAv' PDF (which includes a lot of A4G/Skyhawk material because now you know why).  8)

SkyDrive from Microsoft was renamed 'OneDrive' the other day so I guess I should change my sig - below. Go there or GoogleDrive.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on February 26, 2014, 08:56:56 pm
just found this gem. LSO School  8)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on February 26, 2014, 09:56:31 pm
Paddles,

How does vLSO decide whether to issue an informative, advisory, and imperative call? Just curious after reading the Spaz's recent post on LSO calls.

GOONIE
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on February 26, 2014, 11:11:11 pm
'Goonie' thanks. That NAN story is an example of what is in the 'how to deck land' or the 'A4G/RAN FAA Fixed Wing' PDFs. There is a ton more stuff about LSOs and how to deck land over the years and future years in these PDFs ('how to deck land basic material the same in both). There are several 'how to deck land' PDFs - larger/smaller - for download convenience. I could put a huge list of URLs to some of the material found online that is in the PDFs however since a decade has passed for some of it (including the NAN story) some of the links do not work now and the material is no longer available online. For example the old 'LSO Reference Manual' is not online but is for sale. 'Sludge' used to have it on his old website for download (the 1999 Rev.B version) however it is not there now. That's the internet. It seems the US Military has taken a lot of material offline these days for 'security' reasons (whatever they may be) including sadly the APPROACH Magazine website. Perhaps this site is available to US users but it has not been available in my part of the world now for some time - along with other formerly available USN sites/PDFs/material including stuff from VX-23 such as their excellent newsletters and what have youse.  ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on February 26, 2014, 11:50:33 pm
In the olden tymes Microsoft was flogging ESP - an adjunct, more expensive - for FSX but it went nowhere as I recall. A demo video was made and here is the carrier landing demo with AI LSO:

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: upilote on March 01, 2014, 12:05:45 am
Hello Paddles, thanks for your great work.

Two small questions on beta 0.800 :
1/ LIG
I thought LIG is only for CASE I recoveries but I was able to get ones on CASEII/III traps. Intended ?
By the way, does vLSO take the WOD/APPR SPEED in consideration for the LIG ?
For exemple, optimum WOD being 25kt (aircraft depending?), could a tolerance be applied when current WOD is much higher ?

2/ Manual Ball Call
Is there a angle limitation for vLSO to detect the Manual Ball trigger ?
I mean, could one call the ball as soon as "at 45" or should the plane be in a narrower aspect angle ?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mower on March 02, 2014, 06:09:23 pm
Tack Pack intercepts the suggested call ball key Ctl W, is there a better keystroke?  And do I delete said keystroke from FSX?

Cheers.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: upilote on March 02, 2014, 11:42:38 pm
Tack Pack intercepts the suggested call ball key Ctl W, is there a better keystroke?  And do I delete said keystroke from FSX?
I use Shift-G (and deactivate gesture in ACM) and I deactivate it in FSX (default TOGGLE_TAILWHEEL_LOCK).
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: ExNusquam on March 15, 2014, 12:40:42 am
There appears to be a bug in the currency algorithms. I'm not sure if this is intended or a bug.

1) Night FCLP does't count for day currency. The doc's seem to imply that it should, as the only thing that affects currency is night passes.
2) When night currency seems to count currency the same way it counts day currency, where if you lapse for 15 days, it requires an FCLP refresher. It should list me as "not current", but shouldn't require FCLP.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on March 15, 2014, 02:56:22 pm
Thanks Joe
That's rather a typo  :) Will be corrected in the next version
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Orion on March 15, 2014, 07:36:49 pm
This is irrelevant to vLSO, but I found it noteworthy that it differs from civil aviation: for a private pilot in the U.S., night landings count towards both day and night currency.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on March 16, 2014, 01:44:08 am
Take it from me - if no one else  ;D and yes I can point to many, many quotes / videos online where this 'fact' is stated outright (only USN with some French perhaps do it these days with perhaps some other also rans) - night carrier landings are very difficult. No one seems to be comfortable with them, even after bagging hundreds of night landings (with many more day landings). Day carrier landings are not for the faint hearted; however one becomes comfortable with them, if the weather is reasonable. Night landings are different aboard. There is no reference until very close to the ship (depends on ship/circumstances) unlike a long runway with bright lights everywhere for civilians. At sea the horizon is not there and all around is black - the blackest black you can ever - see without going into space. Black nights over land usually have the odd light somewhere - no lights visible at sea unless 'non mil ships are chugging nearby' - which itself can be a worry. Lights at sea are dimmed so the pilot can see the ball as soon as possible. I could go on and on - carrier landings at night are a special case indeed.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on March 24, 2014, 04:51:45 pm
Two small questions on beta 0.800 :
1/ LIG
I thought LIG is only for CASE I recoveries but I was able to get ones on CASEII/III traps. Intended ?
By the way, does vLSO take the WOD/APPR SPEED in consideration for the LIG ?
For exemple, optimum WOD being 25kt (aircraft depending?), could a tolerance be applied when current WOD is much higher ?

Fair enough. Will implement in the next beta release. Let's start from this: if WOD > 25kts then LIG tolerance will increase by some 5-8%, or maybe by 1% per each 1.5-2kt of WOD above 25kts...

2/ Manual Ball Call
Is there a angle limitation for vLSO to detect the Manual Ball trigger ?
I mean, could one call the ball as soon as "at 45" or should the plane be in a narrower aspect angle ?
Currently it's a rectangular area 800x500x500 feet (WxHxL) at some 5000' aft. I think that being "at 45" would be well beyond current vLSO linup limits, in other words it would be a waveoff, right? By the way, do they call the ball at 45 in real life?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: ExNusquam on March 25, 2014, 11:35:34 am
IRL, they call the ball whenever they see it, which can be the 45. Based on videos I've seen it seems to called just before they roll out in the groove, something more like 10°-20° before lineup.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: upilote on March 27, 2014, 05:40:53 pm
Fair enough. Will implement in the next beta release. Let's start from this: if WOD > 25kts then LIG tolerance will increase by some 5-8%, or maybe by 1% per each 1.5-2kt of WOD above 25kts...
Great news. Thanks.

I think that being "at 45" would be well beyond current vLSO linup limits, in other words it would be a waveoff, right?
WOP exactly.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on May 12, 2014, 04:09:14 am
Ok, guys
The new 0.8.1.0 is here (http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,4915.msg45464.html#msg45464)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: texxasal on May 12, 2014, 12:24:56 pm
Release 0.8.1.0

Functionality is great, and performs as previous releases.

2 minor "cosmetic" points:

1. The "MARSHAL" call (which gives BRC, Case, Altimeter, etc. and is now computer-generated, addresses each aircraft with the identifier "99", which I would presume is an attempt at realistic presentation of the MODEX/SIDE/FLAP number of the aircraft. This information should be obtainable from the a/c within FSX, and is usually presented as the "Flight Number" field in the ATC NAME.

2. The "Lights on Deck" call is a nice enhancement, but should not be given continuously, as presently programmed. The best thing to do would probably check for the "Strobes ON" variable, rather than exterior lights master on, since other lights (Nav, Form) are often operating while on deck. As a second check, the advisory shouldn't be given when the a/c is "hooked up" to a catapult, preparatory to launch.

Minor stuff to be sure. The product continues to amaze and astound with it's functionality and detail.

Thanks

Al

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on May 12, 2014, 02:30:05 pm
Paddles,
Always good stuff, thanks brother for the latest release!  8)

Texxasal,

"99", is used in the navy to refer to all aircraft flying. If you listen to CATCC tapes, you hear them give 99 calls for generic information important to all aircraft in the air (e.g. BRC, altimeter, winds). Specific calls (e.g. 201 turn left heading 260) give side number.

Regarding the lights on deck, since you shouldn't have lights on the deck after trapping, I think the repeat is fine and should remind you to turn your lights off. I think the delay on the cat is adequate. Once you turn on your lights to signal ready to go, I just trigger the CAT launch (within 2-3 seconds) and don't hear the lights on deck call which has a longer delay. If you set the trigger with the hook position, it could miss a call after trapping correct?

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Tregarth on May 12, 2014, 09:07:56 pm
Dear FSXNP,

I have just tried to download v0810.   I simply clicked on the 0810 hyperlink but have not seen a zip file like this before (please see screen grab),  Is it right?

Thank you,

Tregarth
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on May 12, 2014, 09:14:45 pm
Tregarth,
Yes that is right, on the upper left hand corner of the Google page, it says 'File', click that to see the dropdown. You will see a 'download' feature at the bottom of that drop down, click that to download the zip file with everything you need.

-GOONIE
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Tregarth on May 13, 2014, 01:04:33 am
Thank you very much, I have now downloaded it OK.

If you happen to live near Gatwick Airport (EGKK) I run the Gatwick Flight Simulation Group (www.gatwick-fsg.org.uk).  We meet on the first Sunday in every month. 

You will be very welcome,

Cheers,

Tregarth
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on May 13, 2014, 02:38:20 am
Hi Paddles,

Just installed the new version, great new voices, thank you.
I get a lot of WOP's now, at about .5 miles from the AC...no more "call the ball" which used to happen at about .9 miles.
Is this the way it should be? Or is this just my poor flying tonight...:)
Will work again.

Johan
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on May 13, 2014, 04:35:34 am
I get a lot of WOP's now, at about .5 miles from the AC...no more "call the ball" which used to happen at about .9 miles.
Is this the way it should be?
Yes it is. In real life they issue 'call the ball' only during CASE3.
As for WOPs - you're flying with the 'manual ball' on, right? If there's no pilot response upto IM, the program triggers WOP.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on May 13, 2014, 06:03:52 am
OK it works...I fly in Case III and for some reason I had the manual ball on, which I usually don't use.
Once you land on the carrier, the automatic "lights on deck" sound is new, but maybe keeps repeating too many times. It is probably the case in real life.
Thanks for this new update, the sounds a really great.

Johan
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on May 13, 2014, 06:19:04 am
Yes, the program checks the lights every 10 seconds after landing and will keep reminding you until you turn them off ))) That's the way they doing in real life, I guess.
Is it enough in this sim to call 'lights on deck' just once?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mower on May 14, 2014, 05:25:16 pm
Yes, the program checks the lights every 10 seconds after landing and will keep reminding you until you turn them off ))) That's the way they doing in real life, I guess.
Is it enough in this sim to call 'lights on deck' just once?

I dont hear this on deck but I hear everything else like marshall...?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: JamesChams on May 14, 2014, 11:24:00 pm
Nice work there, "Paddles" (a.k.a. "NavyChief")!
PS: One quick question; does it work in P3D v2.x as well as FSX?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on May 15, 2014, 04:15:28 am
I dont hear this on deck but I hear everything else like marshall...?

The program checks lights at night time only.

does it work in P3D v2.x as well as FSX?

I don't have P3D so can't say anything. However, people not complaining about it, so my guess is that it does work.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: JamesChams on May 16, 2014, 07:01:20 am
does it work in P3D v2.x as well as FSX?
I don't have P3D so can't say anything. However, people not complaining about it, so my guess is that it does work.
Okie dokie, just checking; I don't have P3D v2.2 installed yet either, but have been researching ... I ask mainly because it has a NEW SimConnect API library and wasn't sure if your app needs updating to work with it or not.  However, if people are already working with it then LM has kept good on their promise of backward compatibility.

Either way, at some point I intend to make the plunge when "everyone is playing on the same sheet of music" and things are being developed that are NATIVE P3D; not just port-overs, and all the little "bug issues" are resolved which I have no worries that LM won't address at some point.

Thank for keeping this updated. ;)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on May 28, 2014, 11:33:34 am
Nice to see our esteemed 'Paddles' (fsxnp) and vLSO get a well deserved thumbs up from TAILSPIN:  ;D

http://tailspinstales.blogspot.com.au/2010/09/roger-ball.html
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: fsxking08 on June 20, 2014, 08:51:16 am
How do I get vLSO to connect to FSX if I installed it with a different name than the default? My FSX is located: E:\Program Files\Microsoft Games
but vLSO cant find it.

Also I do not have acceleration, just FSX deluxe with SP1 +SP2 and I know its not supported but my friend also has FSX Deluxe with SP1+ SP2 and it worked for him.
My Simconnect is Green but my FSX is Red no matter what I do
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on June 22, 2014, 12:52:43 pm
How do I get vLSO to connect to FSX if I installed it with a different name than the default? My FSX is located: E:\Program Files\Microsoft Games but vLSO cant find it.

The program reliably locates FSX no matter where it is installed.

Also I do not have acceleration, just FSX deluxe with SP1 +SP2 and I know its not supported but my friend also has FSX Deluxe with SP1+ SP2 and it worked for him.
My Simconnect is Green but my FSX is Red no matter what I do
What version of vLSO does your friend use?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: JamesChams on June 26, 2014, 07:26:30 am
Paddles,
Just wanted to bring this to your attention, if it hasn't been mentioned before ...
1. I get these (pictured below for [vLSO v0.8.1]) fairly consistently and I'm really not sure what may be causing them, I just close the app. and reload when they occur.
2. All the Default configs for Aircraft and Tankers were missing from the installer [vLSO v0.8.1]; I had to search online to find them.  Please include them in the next installer or within the manual/documentation.
Otherwise, she works beautifully.
3. Can you make a SHORT-KEY assignment to MANUALLY trigger the CATEGORY message; in the event the Pilot needs a repeat of the info. for Course Hbg., BARO, etc.
4. Can you make this work for other Aircraft Carriers, "user selectable" from the interface and in other languages/accents?  Would like to hear an English/Scottish, French, Spanish, Russian, Indian, or Chinese accents for their respective carriers.

Thanks for all you've done; awesome freeware addon.

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on June 26, 2014, 04:24:00 pm
......................Just wanted to bring this to your attention, if it hasn't been mentioned before ...
1. I get these (pictured below for [vLSO v0.8.1]) fairly consistently and I'm really not sure what may be causing them, I just close the app. and reload when they occur.........................................

Ha!

:)

Serge, I'm a little relieved that I was not the only one, albeit, I notice that the memory address in my error msg was different to what James is seeing here.
Do you think, these errors are being caused due to same/similar causes???


.............................2. All the Default configs for Aircraft and Tankers were missing from the installer [vLSO v0.8.1]....................................................
ummmm... ditto in my case also. I couldn't see any 'default' values in the "Settings" tab also.
But, unlike James, I didn't add any values here, since I was still getting the Close/Too wide abeam calls as per NATOPS.


.............................I had to search online to find them.  Please include them in the next installer or within the manual/documentation....................................

James, the configuration values are already included in the manual provided along with the package.

.............................3. Can you make a SHORT-KEY assignment to MANUALLY trigger the CATEGORY message; in the event the Pilot needs a repeat of the info. for Course Hbg., BARO, etc...............

Great suggestion. More than once, I have felt a need for such a key.

I fly with real-world weather update enabled, and the TP boat is set to automatically adjust its heading according to the winds. The weather updates every 10 minutes, and every half an hour or so, the boat changes the heading significantly (more than 50 degrees or so). The moment boat begins to change heading, vLSO also begins to announce changes in BRC. These announcements continue for every 2-3 degrees change in heading, and is almost a continuous transmission. In one CV training session of one hour, it's not unusual to encounter such episodes twice.

Do you think, it's possible to increase the 'polling times' for these calls so that, vLSO makes one announcement when the boat begins the heading change, and then makes another announcement about 5 seconds AFTER the boat stabilizes on new heading. Infact, it will be awesome, if, the moment boat starts its turn, the vLSO issues out a "99" call for all airplanes to go to Delta till further advice :)

Cheers!!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on June 26, 2014, 08:45:29 pm
1. I get these (pictured below for [vLSO v0.8.1]) fairly consistently and I'm really not sure what may be causing them, I just close the app. and reload when they occur.
I couldn't reproduce this issue on my computer (FSX, XP 64). What is your setup (OS, TP presence etc.)?

Quote from: JamesChams
3. Can you make a SHORT-KEY assignment to MANUALLY trigger the CATEGORY message; in the event the Pilot needs a repeat of the info. for Course Hbg., BARO, etc.
Fair enough. I'll think about it.

Quote from: JamesChams
4. Can you make this work for other Aircraft Carriers, "user selectable" from the interface and in other languages/accents?  Would like to hear an English/Scottish, French, Spanish, Russian, Indian, or Chinese accents for their respective carriers.
Well... You can replace sound samples (LSO calls) with your own, in any language with any accent. Please read the manual, 'Custom sound smples' chapter.
As for carriers, I tried to include support for all of those with working FSX FLOLS. Are there any such carriers still not supported?

I fly with real-world weather update enabled, and the TP boat is set to automatically adjust its heading according to the winds. The weather updates every 10 minutes, and every half an hour or so, the boat changes the heading significantly (more than 50 degrees or so). The moment boat begins to change heading, vLSO also begins to announce changes in BRC. These announcements continue for every 2-3 degrees change in heading, and is almost a continuous transmission. In one CV training session of one hour, it's not unusual to encounter such episodes twice.

Do you think, it's possible to increase the 'polling times' for these calls so that, vLSO makes one announcement when the boat begins the heading change, and then makes another announcement about 5 seconds AFTER the boat stabilizes on new heading. Infact, it will be awesome, if, the moment boat starts its turn, the vLSO issues out a "99" call for all airplanes to go to Delta till further advice
Honestly, never thought of such huge BRC changes...  ;D That's why the program currently monitors BRC every second and considers its changes of 1.5 and more degrees as ship's turn and makes a call. Will try to increase these values and see what happens.
Yes, it's ok to add another 99 call. What should it be? '99, Delta pattern' or something? What is the further advice when the boat is steady?

And what about the burble?

Still no feedback on this effect. Everybody happy with it?  ;)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mickey_Techy on June 27, 2014, 06:40:25 pm
................................... What should it be? '99, Delta pattern' or something? What is the further advice when the boat is steady?....................[/size]

Not certain of it Serge. Folks with real world experience or other 'regulars' on this thread may like to chime in. I'm thinking, "99 Delta" and "99 Clear Delta, Charlie Time NOW" could be two indicative calls to commence and terminate Delta. But, these are purely my imagination and I wouldn't know what real world calls would be. 


................................... ....................

And what about the burble?


Grrrrrrrr.....

That's all I have to say.

Before 8.1, I thought I was able to shoot steady OK 3 approaches. Now, I'm happy if I just get a (OK) anywire.
With real world, Opus injected weather ON at all times, the burble always gurgles the short finals of the approach.

Your manual says, "the burble needs to be compensated by appropriate application of thrust and maneuvering". ;)

I'll be damned if I can train my reflexes fast enough to do that. There's just no time for that at all.

The only good part is, I KNOW it's always going to be there just as I cross the ramp (On my rig, it always happens), so I'm kinda anticipating it, and am ready to counter it with controls.

But despite all my efforts, I'm not able to eliminate the burble caused variation in flight path. I just fly 'through' it :)

The vLSO tolerance close to ramp is so narrow, that on more than a couple of occasions, the burble has also caused the vLSO to give me a waveoff, but despite pushing the throttles to the stop, I still arrest and earn a cut pass.

Just no time to execute a go around at those heights and speeds.

Thank you for this effect Serge. It will take me tons of training to be able to learn how to handle the burble.


Grrrrr again!!!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on June 27, 2014, 11:03:37 pm
May I chime in on a perhaps related note? I think I mentioned earlier (some time ago now) that I stopped using FSX Accel with my new computer because for one thing during FCLP with vLSO - every time - the sim would pause 'at the ramp' so to speak. What the HECK! Nothing I could do would overcome this issue which made using FSX - with/without vLSO - bleedin' useless. Changing weather or having NO WEATHER did not change this damned pause - neither changing runways or locations. I just could not tolerate it - maybe I'll get back to FSX however I am too wondering about THE BURBLE.

For sure getting aboard earlier - without the burble - was difficult enough. I shudder to think what it is like with THE BURBLE!  ;D YMMV  :o ::) ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mower on June 29, 2014, 05:37:40 am
Great App, have logged over 300 traps now.

Question:  why do I not hear the deck landing sound effects with the VRS Rhino?  I hear the sounds with Dino,s t45 and f14.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Striker on June 29, 2014, 05:52:57 pm
Please give consideration to making THE BURBLE an option. Thus it would be available to those looking for the full reality trip and for others already challenged not to have to have this added involuntarily.

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: texxasal on June 29, 2014, 08:20:28 pm
Great App, have logged over 300 traps now.

Question:  why do I not hear the deck landing sound effects with the VRS Rhino?  I hear the sounds with Dino,s t45 and f14.

That would be because sounds are created/generated from the aircraft you are flying. vLSO doesn't know or care what sounds are heard inside the airplane.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: texxasal on June 29, 2014, 08:30:04 pm
Please give consideration to making THE BURBLE an option. Thus it would be available to those looking for the full reality trip and for others already challenged not to have to have this added involuntarily.



If you are going to allow the capability to disable/modify the performance criteria, please include a way to include that information with exported logs.

This will ensure grading is appropriate for all participants.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mower on July 07, 2014, 04:37:22 am
What is "BRB"?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Striker on July 10, 2014, 09:24:16 pm
What is "BRB"?

Would you perhaps mean "BRC?" If so, that refers to the  Base Recovery Course (BRC) the carrier is currently heading during aircraft recovery.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Mower on July 12, 2014, 03:16:57 am
Good copy, thanks Striker.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on July 29, 2014, 11:19:58 pm
Some ideas for vLSO:
1/ radio frequency
2/ radio check in
3/ ATC for carrier
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on July 30, 2014, 04:03:43 am
Please, be more specific on that?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SUBS17 on July 31, 2014, 12:52:53 am
Radio freq for the vLSO that has to be tunned for the pilots to hear the LSO instead of it just being on any freq. Radio check in could be with carrier ATC to enter the pattern.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on August 03, 2014, 03:55:29 pm
Ok Subs,
I think it's doable. I see this as another group of options on the settings window, where the pilot would be able to tune Com1/2 frequency. Then vLSO would monitor that frequency and, if it's set in VC, will transmit LSO commands (audible and textual).
Title: Re:
Post by: Mickey_Techy on August 03, 2014, 06:42:33 pm
Paddles, you might want the frequency to be a user selectable option.

Various groups out there work with different frequencies around the boat.

SUBS- Good idea though.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on August 04, 2014, 04:18:16 am
Yes, that's what I meant. You first select/tune the frequency, then enable that frequency as vLSO 'channel' and go flying. When in VC you tune that frequency as COM1/2 and you'll hear LSO comments as if they were transmitted via that channel. If (in VC) you tune to different COM frequency, no LSO comments will be heard.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on August 04, 2014, 04:47:45 am
A brand new challenge for the vLSO addicts! Thanks Paddles.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on August 04, 2014, 07:34:37 pm
Want to know what folks are setting natural wind speeds and carrier speed in FSX when using vLSO? For example I use 6 knots of wind (down the angle) and have the ship speed set at 20 knots, so WoD is ~26 knots. With these winds and when flying 'on speed' in the groove (I fly the VRS F/A-18E), my time in groove is +23 seconds, and I get LIG (long in groove) a lot. Seems a 26 knots WoD is realistic, so I am curious what winds/speeds folks use and groove times you get. I ultimately reduce the ship speed to 10-12 knots, at get a 16-18 knot WoD (not sure that is NATOPS legal), and get better groove times (~18seconds).

Does the LSO's groove time requirements change based on WoD in the real world?

Thanks for any thoughts our input on winds and ship speed in relation to groove times (vLSO) in FSX. 
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on August 04, 2014, 09:17:59 pm
In the many references to groove length in my 'deck landing' material the most common is 15-18 seconds followed by '15-20 seconds'. Here is one official reference:

COMCARAIRWING SEVEN INSTRUCTION 1520.1N | Subj: LANDING SIGNAL OFFICER TRAINING/CARRIER LANDING SAFETY PROGRAM

http://www.cvw7.navy.mil/inc/cmodules/dms/download-rel.php?secid=99&id=0&filesystem_id=7199

“...(5) Wind. During normal operations wind calls will be made periodically. During “ZIP LIP,” wind calls will not be made if WOD is 25-30 knots....

...(9) Groove length. Proper groove length is 15-18 seconds, 19-21 seconds will be grades as “little long in the groove.” If it is required to waveoff a LIG aircraft it will be grades as 2.0 points (WOP)....”

Depending on WOD the pilot should adjust base turn position to gain correct groove length. In my time everything was done visually so IF I thought I had misjudged base I would angle in a lot (with more angle of bank initially) before getting in the groove at correct length. When several aircraft in the pattern - especially if arresting - it is important to not be long in the groove (and cause the following aircraft to wave off foul deck).
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on August 05, 2014, 01:44:12 pm
With WOD >25 I get (LIG) or LIG too. That's perhaps because of FSX glideslope angle, which is steeper than the real one (4.12 vs 3.75 or even 4.12 vs 3.25)?
Can somebody do some FCLP tests with WOD ~26..28 in order to compare groove times?

As for new options to the program - should I provide two frequencies? Say, one for LSO, one for CATCC?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on August 05, 2014, 05:48:32 pm
Thanks Paddles and Spaz,

I think it is a combo of the glideslope and FSX. Do either of you have any info on WoD requirements/limits for F/A-18 during carrier landings? E.g. minimum of 20 knots WoD, max of 40 knots?

"Depending on WOD the pilot should adjust base turn position to gain correct groove length" Does this mean you even if you have turn to get in the groove prior to 3/4NM in order to get the proper groove time, that is ok? What is more important, groove time, or correct start distance (3/4NM)?

Here is my math. On Speed in the SuperHornet, 145kts - WoD 26 kts = 119 kts, which takes ~22 seconds to fly 3/4 NM
 
I think 26 knots is reasonable WoD right? Wouldn't a higher glideslope (FSX 4.12) be used in high wind conditions? That is what I would like to replicate/simulate without getting a LIG every time.


Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on August 06, 2014, 12:14:39 am
IMHO the regulation groove TIME is what is important for reason mentioned: When more than one aircraft landing sequentially then it is important to NOT cause the following aircraft (which has likely taken the correct interval at the section break) to wave off because you in front are long in the groove. Usually the LSO will wave off the Long In Groove aircraft very quickly at beginning of their approach so that the 'good guy' can land (the one behind the LIG). When there is no following aircraft then the LIG may be allowed to continue as long as the 'long time is groove is not going to be too long'. Usually LIG means more chance to foul up the approach also. A good approach is a quick one (which is not 'too short in the groove') so the Goldilocks approach is good to go. :-)

I think I have a reference for good Hornet WOD which will be posted here soonish. From Legacy Hornet NATOPS:

"...With a 30-knot wind over the deck begin the 180° turn to the final approach when approximately abeam the LSO platform...."
&
“...For any carrier operations wind is needed to blow over the deck in order to launch & recover aircraft — typically 20 to 30 knots (38-55km/h) aboard the USS Harry S Truman. For safe operations there must be a minimal crosswind & a ship’s roll of no more than two degrees....”
RN weather experts prepare for new carriers with US Navy 9 Nov 12 http://www.noodls.com/view/3FBA6956CA641EAE45D01545F9002FEB4B916EFB

As for high WOD: there is a limit due to factors such as increasing the stress on the aircraft at touchdown (not recognised until a study done on it some decades ago now). Probably there is a reference to this effect already in this thread or on the forum somewhere but anyway here it is again:

EFFECT OF WIND OVER DECK CONDITIONS ON AIRCRAFT APPROACH SPEEDS FOR CARRIER LANDINGS
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf&AD=ADA239511 (small PDF)

A heavily edited PDF of the above Main PDF is attached but with all relevant bits.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: ExNusquam on August 06, 2014, 10:41:52 pm
As for new options to the program - should I provide two frequencies? Say, one for LSO, one for CATCC?

Paddles, if you want to add separate frequencies, take note of this story. It seems like the aircraft get switched from Marshal to Final (LSO) at platform.

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=7012.0;wap2
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on August 07, 2014, 06:59:21 pm
Spaz,
Thanks for the info on WoD, that was a good read if you don't fall asleep. It is counterintuitive to think with higher WoD, aircraft approach speeds would be higher and result more stress on the aircraft and arresting gear.  ??? But you can't argue with the math and observations in the report.

One thing I noticed that might be of interest to Paddles is the G/S angle reported to be used for FCLP, it is 3.25 degrees.

Paddles, do you set the IFOFLS to 3.25 for your FCLP scenery?

Paddles,
Below are three pictures, the first is a CASE I pass with 28knots WoD. I turn into the groove at 3/4NM call the ball and get a LIG (~23 seconds) and a Fair grade four wire. Second picture is same conditions 28 knots WoD, but I turn in early to reduce groove time (~17 seconds). I don't get a LIG, but I get several line up comments since vLSO perceives me as LUL in order to get the correct groove time as per Spaz's advice. Again I get another Fair grade four wire. The final picture shows another CASE I pass, with only 22 knots WoD, I get a two (H) comments, but overall an OK pass into the four wire. I am not sure how the grading algorithm works, but I assume a LIG is a worse comment versus (H), and resulted in the Fair grade with 28 knots WoD, but an OK with only 22 knots. 

Paddles as you know I love vLSO, and am just pointing out my observations, not gripes, hoping to make sense of what I am seeing and or make improvements if needed.


GOONIE
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on August 07, 2014, 11:46:14 pm
Goonie, I do not know where you are turning base. However the way I would reduce groove time is: turn base earlier than you have been.

My comment about over banking early in the turn was IF/WHEN base turn was perceived to HAVE BEEN started TOO Late, thus likely to cause Long In Groove. The way we could make up for that (within parameters) was to overbank as you have done straight after turning base to see the potential for being 'long' - then a sharp turn to get on centreline is required BUT not too close to the carrier - you do need a straightaway. However going back to basics:

With Higher WOD turn base earlier than usual.

I guess your graphic file names refer to base turn? If so then ensure that you get to the centreline of angle deck as quick as. Probably the vLSO is a bit inflexible however I do not know how to change that.

I did a lot of testing for early FCLP but I cannot really recall what the parameters were now. It was a few years back and a lot of different parameters were tested. Probably PADDLES remembers it all. :-) As I recall the wind was HIGH and straight down the runway because with the Hornet in use at that time (an early SLUDGE) that (for me) produced a nice result (not that I have flown a Hornet - only the old A4G).
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on August 08, 2014, 06:18:49 pm
One thing I noticed that might be of interest to Paddles is the G/S angle reported to be used for FCLP, it is 3.25 degrees.

Paddles, do you set the IFOFLS to 3.25 for your FCLP scenery?

All my vLSO compatible scenries have IFLOLS set to 3.75.

I did a lot of testing for early FCLP but I cannot really recall what the parameters were now. It was a few years back and a lot of different parameters were tested. Probably PADDLES remembers it all. :-) As I recall the wind was HIGH and straight down the runway because with the Hornet in use at that time (an early SLUDGE) that (for me) produced a nice result

Yep, that was epic! You did a whole lot of tests  8) The only scenery we then decided to leave with 3.25 was the first generation El Centro. Of course, it is not compatible with vLSO, however you can still bounce there with a shallower glideslope and see the difference.
Technically it is possible to recompile the IFLOLS model with other glideslope settings, like 3.5 or 3.25, whatever...  ;)

...I don't get a LIG, but I get several line up comments since vLSO perceives me as LUL in order to get the correct groove time as per Spaz's advice. Again I get another Fair grade four wire.

I see. A quick idea that came to my mind - at high WOD the program won't check the lineup for a second or two after ball call.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on August 11, 2014, 03:24:43 pm
Paddles, did you select a 3.75 g/s based on some gouge for FCLPs?

I think if vLSO is more lenient on the line up calls when WoD is high (>26 knots) it may work. Not a big deal, I just want to get more OK 3s  ;D

GOONIE
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on August 11, 2014, 04:53:49 pm
Well... During numerous FCLP tests, conducted by Spaz, we tried different glideslope settings under various weather conditions. If my memory serves me right, those settings were 3.25, 3.5, 3.75. Finally the latter was chosen for 'line' FCLPs, whereas 3.25 remained for 'initial' (or rookie) FCLP missions at El Centro (no wind, hoops in the sky etc)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on August 11, 2014, 05:22:02 pm
OK, roger that! 3.75 it is ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on August 20, 2014, 02:00:41 pm
Ok guys,
Just a quick WIP update...

The upcoming vLSO beta will include the following features:

- More randomization of voice calls;
- The S-3B (by Dino) is now supported by default;
- LSO/ATC radio settings;
- Repeat the last text message at user's request.

Now more detailed on the radio option. You will be able to use a dedicated COM frequency for LSO/ATC.
You first enable and set this frequency in the program. Then you tune your radio in the cockpit to this frequency (COM1 or COM2) and voila, you will hear all LSO/ATC voice calls.
If you tune the radio to other frequency (from COM1 to COM2, for example, or to a standby frequency) then you won't hear LSO. This means LSO won't be able to 'communicate' with you either, so no graded approaches in this case...  ;)

If you turn this option off, all LSO voice messages will be audible no matter what COM1/COM2 frequency is set.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on August 20, 2014, 02:53:01 pm
Very nice! Can't wait  ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on August 20, 2014, 04:44:10 pm
Nice work Paddles! How do the comms work IRL? Does the CATCC use the same freq as the LSO, or would one be using CATCC until abeam and then switch over to the LSO freq?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on August 20, 2014, 05:48:30 pm
Also thought I would share with the folks on the forum (LSO training material) http://www.volunteers-midway.org/assets/files/3403.pdf

It has some really good gouge on a couple topics we have discussed recently, WoD, Burble, G/S angle for FCLP, and night vs day FCLP. Check out chapters 17-20, good stuff in there  8). pulled a couple excerpts.

WoD and Burble:
17.2.1 Optimum Recovery Headwind.
Recovery headwind (RHW) is the component
of wind over the deck which is parallel to the
landing area centerline. Twenty-five (25) knots
of recovery headwind is considered optimum
for aircraft shipboard recovery.

17.2.2 Burble. Disturbance in the air mass
flow as it moves upward over bow or angle
deck, along the landing area, down at the
ramp and reflecting off the water is unique to
carrier operations and is depicted in Figure
17-1. The resultant airflow aft of the ramp is
termed the burble. The magnitude and
position of the downdraft/updraft aft of the
ramp is a factor of the air mass velocity and
ships forward motion. Carriers with a large
island superstructure produce the most severe
burble.
The burble directly affects an aircraft
approach by causing a sudden increase in lift
in the middle then a decrease in lift in close to
at the ramp. A pilot correcting for more lift in
the middle with a power reduction will need to
anticipate the recorrection needed for the loss
of lift in close. Also, pilot awareness is critical
during lineup corrections while being affected
by the burble. The burble effect is minimized
with optimum recovery headwind.

17.2.3 High Recovery Headwinds
Pilots will have to deal with a more significant
burble located closer to the ramp and be at a
higher stabilized power setting throughout the
approach. There will be greater turbulence in
close and potential for wing drop at the ramp
and beyond. Higher sink rates will develop
from relatively small power corrections,
decreasing the bolter rate but increasing the
chance of early wires. Gust responsive
aircraft will have more problems maintaining
good glideslope parameters. The lineup
parameter will be affected if the pilot and LSO
fixate on glideslope. Finally, attention must be
given the Case I pattern as an earlier than
normal turn in point will be required to avoid
being long in the groove.

18.6.1 Field/Ship Differences. The
glideslope setting used for a FCLP will
normally range from 2-3/4 to 3-1/4 degrees.
At the ship, wind over the deck acts to
decrease aircraft relative closure to the carrier
deck, allowing more time for error detection
and correction, and resulting in an actual
glideslope that the aircraft flies being
shallower than the set basic angle. This
actual glideslope is approximately 3/4 degrees

At the field, without the aid of
that 30 knots wind over the deck, approach
geometry is different. 3.25 degrees will
simulate the actual ship's glidepath, however
with less wind aircraft require lower power
settings to stay on glideslope.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on August 20, 2014, 11:14:41 pm
Thanks Goonie. That now old LSO Reference Manual Rev.B had (I thought) disappeared from the internet. Good to have a reference to it again. I'm looking forward to being able to download/view the latest (after a decade) revision which was done around 2011-12. The intro letter is dated 1999 with internal PDF info that it was printed Jan 2001. This manual has been referenced many times over the years on this forum. It used to be downloadable from an old 'SLUDGE' website also as well as available from USN LSO and other sources - it is even SOLD online these days but who would pay for it?  ::) ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Victory103 on August 21, 2014, 01:32:35 pm
Nice work Paddles! How do the comms work IRL? Does the CATCC use the same freq as the LSO, or would one be using CATCC until abeam and then switch over to the LSO freq?

During CQ, Marshall will pass one off to App and remain on a signal freq with Tower(Air Boss) and the LSOs. In the Fleet, the final controller and LSO/Twr are on the same freq.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on August 21, 2014, 01:57:46 pm
By the way, on numerous real comm recordings you can hear all of them on the same frequency.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: pyroperson87 on August 25, 2014, 07:25:11 pm
Paddles, VLSO 0.8.1.0 is fantastic!  I spent several (pronounced by my wife as "too many") hours flying several FCLP bounces and then flying CQ and it was a real blast! The burble behind the ship totally changes the difficulty in the groove, particularly AR. I tagged the ace several times before finally figuring out how/when to anticipate getting underpowered. It's definitely a welcome, and much needed addition to FSX carrier ops.  A few things I noted:

- As mentioned by others, I got LIG every pass. The boat was sailing at 20 knots with 10 knots of added natural wind over the deck. WOD was ~29 on all my graphs.
- The rollback feature didn't work as I expected it to. I trapped, went MIL power, but as soon as the jet slowed from the wires I started rolling forward again just like before. To test it I flew a pass where I trapped without applying power and the rollback feature worked as advertised.

Thanks for all your hard work Paddles! You've definitely created one of the best addons for FSX carrier ops IMHO and I can't wait for all the things you will implement in upcoming releases.

Pyro
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on August 26, 2014, 09:20:10 am
Ok guys

The new 0.8.1.1 beta is here (http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,4915.msg45464.html#msg45464)

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: rsgunner on August 31, 2014, 07:21:53 pm
Please tell me how stupid I am and what I have done wrong.

Fentress FCLP works perfectly. I can take off from Oceana NAS and fly to Fentress airspace and everything works as advertised.

When I go to Choctaw, Coupeville or Williams I get no activation of vLSO. I have checked installation of the scenery and every displays correctly, there is just no FCLP activation.

When I am at Choctaw vLSO is picking up the carriers that are in the Gulf.

All the FCLP scenery was downloaded from your site so there no extras installed.

Great program!

Russ
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on August 31, 2014, 08:09:54 pm
I guess a relevant .tag file is missing in the scenery folder of each FCLP location in question.
KNJW_FCLP.tag in Joe Williams, for example.

What distances to the carriers in the gulf does vLSO report, by the way? Select vLSO addon menu / Choose a carrier option and you'll see a window with a list of available carriers.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: rsgunner on August 31, 2014, 09:16:42 pm
There are the appropriate "tag" files in each of the scenery folders.

Just did a Choctaw test and 2 carriers were identified.

Distances were 21.7 and 29.4.

The riddle is why Fentress works and the others don't.

I experienced a "Range check error".

Russ

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on September 01, 2014, 12:25:42 pm
Russ,
Thanks for the burgeport. The 0.8.1.2 beta is free of this 'range check' error.
Hope all FCLP sceneries now work fine.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: rsgunner on September 01, 2014, 03:02:47 pm
Paddles

There is no change, except I didn't get the "Range Check error".

It is obvious that it is a setting on my machine since there is no issue of this nature brought up by others.

I would not expect you to spend anymore time and effort to address a single machine issue.

It is a great program..

Thanks for everything.

Russ
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on September 01, 2014, 03:39:50 pm
Bummer...  :(

Frankly, nobody else reported this error. I could admit there's probably something on your side that causes this bug... But the most mystifying is the fact that the Fentress scenery does work!.. Bummer!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: rsgunner on September 01, 2014, 04:46:37 pm
Paddles

Strange occurrences.

Fentress, Williams and Coupeville are not working.

But Choctaw is now working.

Russ
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on September 01, 2014, 05:36:06 pm
Unbelievable!..
There's definitely something wrong in your setup. Have no idea what's that, sorry.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: rsgunner on September 01, 2014, 05:46:01 pm
Paddles

I modified my EXE.XML so there were only 2 entries; AICarriers and vLSO.

FCLP is working at all locations!  Not only in FSX but P3D v2.3!

All is good.

Thanks for your support.

Russ
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on September 01, 2014, 06:02:18 pm
Holy cow...What in the exe.xml caused the bug?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: rsgunner on September 01, 2014, 06:24:22 pm
I had a 3wirex entry that I had disabled.

I had not used that program in awhile so I just backed up the old EXE.XML and made the simplified one and it just worked.

Russ
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on September 01, 2014, 06:54:45 pm
Ok, now I see. That is a program developed (and abandoned?) back in 2007, no wonder there are certain inconsistencies with FSX Acceleration. Yet another item worth to mention in the manual.

Thanks, Russ!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Wingmate on September 11, 2014, 02:08:04 am
I'm not sure what has happened but whenever I start up vLSO I get an "Access Violation at address 004C375" that keeps opening. The address the error is at sometimes changes but it is overlapped by another error message too quickly to read what it is. I get this error on all the latest versions of vLSO. I previously had vLSO 8.10 working but the problem started with the that version a few weeks ago so I tried upgrading and that did not solve the problem.

Any ideas on what this could be and how to fix it?

Thanks
-Wingmate
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on September 11, 2014, 04:13:50 am
Is this the case even with the 0.8.1.2 beta?
Please describe in more details situations when this error occurs (when starting on the deck or on runway, when approaching the boat, etc).
Another question. If 0.8.1.0 initially worked ok for you but then started producing errors, perhaps something has changed in your system at that time (new addon for example)?

Thanks
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Wingmate on September 12, 2014, 02:32:05 am
The error shows up even with the 0.8.1.2 beta, and occurs on the program launch when starting up flight sim or whenever I start it manually. The only thing that I can remember changing in between now and then was a microsoft update, I think it was for .net framework.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on September 12, 2014, 04:02:47 am
Ok, one more suggestion - rename your current logbook.ldf file and start the program.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Wingmate on September 12, 2014, 07:05:08 am
I just tried that with no success.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on September 12, 2014, 09:21:34 am
(http://www.markramseymedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/confused.jpg)

As a last resort, do a fresh install (i.e. re-download the program's pack, unzip it to a new empty folder and remove the vLSO.ini file) and run the program again. If the error persists, then the problem is most likely in the system...
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Johan on September 12, 2014, 01:44:09 pm
If there are any Microsoft Windows Update pending on your computer, do those updates, restart the computer and try again vSLO.

Johan
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Wingmate on September 13, 2014, 10:41:36 pm
Just loaded up flightsim for a flight and vLSO loaded up correctly, no idea why I hadn't changed anything yet but now it is working.

Thanks for all the help

Edit:
It is not quite entirely fixed, it still throws the odd error occasionally and will some times revert to throwing them non stop on start up, but it is working to the point that I can use it now.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: texxasal on September 14, 2014, 04:55:02 pm
Sir,
Thanks very much for 0.8.1.2 Beta.  It significantly enhances our enjoyment of the simulation.

The only "anomalies" I have noticed relate to the "Marshal" calls (those prefixed with the 99 identifier), and the "Taxi Lights On" and "Lights on Deck" advisories.

For some reason, the "99" calls don't go to the selected COM1 or COM2 frequency. They route appropriately to the vLSO Audio Device specified in the settings, but don't "track" to a discrete COM channel.

I have also noted that the Taxi Lights on & Lights on Deck seem to persist for a rather long time after corrective action has been applied by the pilot. How long should these message persist and, what criteria are you looking for to trigger/reset the "Lights on Deck" advisory? I fly the VRS Superbug with TacPack, and we have the ability to control exterior lights individual, as well as by the "External Lights Master" switch, per NATOPS for the airframe.

Again, thanks very much for a wonderful product. It completes the environment for carrier operations quite well.

regards

Al

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on September 14, 2014, 06:46:42 pm
The only "anomalies" I have noticed relate to the "Marshal" calls (those prefixed with the 99 identifier), and the "Taxi Lights On" and "Lights on Deck" advisories.

For some reason, the "99" calls don't go to the selected COM1 or COM2 frequency. They route appropriately to the vLSO Audio Device specified in the settings, but don't "track" to a discrete COM channel.

Currently all Marshal calls go through the selected audiuo device, no matter what COM frequency is selected. Definitely this needs to be fixed.

I have also noted that the Taxi Lights on & Lights on Deck seem to persist for a rather long time after corrective action has been applied by the pilot. How long should these message persist and, what criteria are you looking for to trigger/reset the "Lights on Deck" advisory? I fly the VRS Superbug with TacPack, and we have the ability to control exterior lights individual, as well as by the "External Lights Master" switch, per NATOPS for the airframe.

Once on deck, the program checks the lights state every 10 seconds. If any of the following lights are on, you'll hear 'lights on deck':

Strobe
Nav     
Beacon
Taxi
Logo
Wing
Recognition
Landing

The 'taxi lights on' is triggered just twice - 30 sec and 1.5 min after the minimum visibility (1km) has been detected.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: texxasal on September 15, 2014, 12:18:37 am
Thanks very much for the prompt reply.

For the Superbug guys, then "External Lights Master" is the way to go.

With the 10-second trigger, T/O procedures need to be modified.

1. Pre-takeoff checks prior to moving into t/o position on the CAT.
2. After "Bar Down" & "JBD UP", then t/o trim reset.
3. Power to T/O thrust.
4. Controls exercised & free.
5. External Lights Master "ON"
6. Launch trigger.

Slightly different from observed videos, which go lights on before Controls exercised & Power to T/O thrust.

Anyway, Thanks again.

Al
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on September 15, 2014, 01:46:25 am
Al,
The lights come on last to signal you are ready for takeoff on the carrier at night, just like the salute during the day, so it is the last thing you do to signal you are ready. Can you share the videos of the lights coming on then the control wipe out?

So the takeoff steps you show look in a good order, and should work with vLSO.

GOONIE
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on September 15, 2014, 04:44:36 am
8.3 NIGHT OPERATIONS F/A-18A/B/C/D NATOPS http://info.publicintelligence.net/F18-ABCD-000.pdf
"8.3.1 General. Night carrier operations have a much slower tempo than daylight operations and it is
the pilot’s responsibility to maintain this tempo. Standard daytime hand signals from deck crew to
pilot are executed with light wands. The procedures outlined here are different from, or in addition to,
normal day carrier operations.

8.3.2 Preflight. Conduct the exterior preflight using a white lensed flashlight. Ensure that the
exterior lights are properly positioned for launch and the external lights master switch OFF before
engine start. Ensure that instrument and console light rheostats are on. This reduces brilliance of the
warning and advisory lights when the generators come on.

8.3.3 Before Taxi. Adjust cockpit lighting as desired and perform before taxi checks.

8.3.4 Taxi. Slow and careful handling by aircraft directors and pilots is mandatory. If any doubt
exists as to the plane director’s signals, stop the aircraft. At night it is very difficult to determine speed
or motion over the deck; rely on the plane director’s signals and follow them closely.

8.3.5 Catapult Hook-Up. Maneuvering the aircraft for catapult hook-up at night is identical to that
used in day operations; however, it is difficult to determine speed or degree of motion over the deck.
8.3.6 Catapult Launch. On turn-up signal from the catapult officer, ensure throttles are in MIL or
MAX and check all instruments. Ensure that launch bar switch is in the retract position. When ready
for launch, place external lights master switch ON.


All lights should be on bright with the strobes on. If expecting to encounter instrument meteorological
conditions shortly after launch, the strobes may be left off at the discretion of the pilot.

After launch, monitor rotation of the aircraft to 12° nose up crosschecking all instruments to ensure
a positive rate of climb. When comfortably climbing, retract the landing gear and flaps and proceed on
the departure in accordance with ship’s procedures. The standby attitude reference indicator should be
used in the event of a HUD failure.

8.3.7 Aircraft or Catapult Malfunction. If a no-go situation arises, do not turn on the exterior lights
and transmit SUSPEND, SUSPEND. Maintain MIL/MAX power until the catapult officer walks in
front of the wing and gives the throttle-back signal. If the external lights master switch has been placed
on prior to ascertaining that the aircraft is down, transmit SUSPEND, SUSPEND and turn off the
exterior lights and leave the throttles at MIL until signaled to reduce power.

8.3.8 Landing Pattern. Night and instrument recoveries normally are made using case III procedures
in accordance with the CV NATOPS Manual.

8.3.9 Arrestment and Exit From the Landing Area. During the approach all exterior lights should
be on with the exception of taxi/landing light. Following arrestment, immediately turn the external
lights master switch off.
Taxi clear of the landing area following the plane director’s signals."
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: thetford569 on September 16, 2014, 04:52:10 am
I had a 3wirex entry that I had disabled.

I had not used that program in awhile so I just backed up the old EXE.XML and made the simplified one and it just worked.

Russ

Russ what exactly did you change in your exe.xml file?  I am using Prepar3D 2.3 and am having the same problem with vLSO only working at one airfield but not the others.  I only have 2 entries in my exe.xml and these 2 entries have been there for a long time.  I have never seen anything related to vLSO in the exe.xml file that I can remember and I certainly don't have any entries in there now.  My exe.xml looks like this:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="windows-1252"?>
<SimBase.Document Type="Launch" version="1,0">
  <Descr>Launch</Descr>
  <Filename>exe.xml</Filename>
  <Disabled>False</Disabled>
  <Launch.ManualLoad>False</Launch.ManualLoad>
  <Launch.Addon>
    <Name>Couatl</Name>
    <Disabled>False</Disabled>
    <ManualLoad>False</ManualLoad>
    <Path>fsdreamteam\couatl\couatl.exe</Path>
    <CommandLine>--mode=prepar3dv2</CommandLine>
<Launch.Addon></Launch.Addon>
  </Launch.Addon>
    <Launch.Addon>
    <Disabled>False</Disabled>
    <ManualLoad>False</ManualLoad>
    <Name>AICarriers</Name>
    <Path>F:\Flight Simulator Programs\AICarriers\aicarriers.exe</Path>
    <CommandLine>-nogui</CommandLine>
  </Launch.Addon>
</SimBase.Document>

vLSO has previously worked in Prepar3D with all of the FCLP airfields but for some reason right now it's only working at NJW.  I tried to look at your solution hoping I had the same issue but all I have is aicarriers and coutl (which is for FSDreamTeam Airports).

Brandon
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: rsgunner on September 16, 2014, 02:01:15 pm
Brandon
This is what my EXE.XML looks like.



<?xml version="1.0" encoding="Windows-1252"?>
<SimBase.Document Type="Launch" version="1,0">
   <Descr>Launch</Descr>
   <Filename>exe.xml</Filename>
   <Disabled>False</Disabled>
   <Launch.ManualLoad>False</Launch.ManualLoad>
   <Launch.Addon>
      <Disabled>False</Disabled>
      <ManualLoad>False</ManualLoad>
      <Name>TrackIR5</Name>
      <Path>C:\Program Files (x86)\NaturalPoint\TrackIR5\TrackIR5.exe</Path>
   </Launch.Addon>
   <Launch.Addon>
      <Disabled>False</Disabled>
      <ManualLoad>False</ManualLoad>
      <Name>AICarriers</Name>
      <Path>E:\AIcarriers\aicarriers.exe</Path>
      <CommandLine>-nogui</CommandLine>
   </Launch.Addon>
   <Launch.Addon>
      <Name>vLSO</Name>
      <Disabled>False</Disabled>
      <Path>E:\vLSO\vLSO.exe</Path>
      <CommandLine>auto</CommandLine>
   </Launch.Addon>
</SimBase.Document>


Russ
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: thetford569 on September 18, 2014, 04:20:02 am
Brandon
This is what my EXE.XML looks like.



<?xml version="1.0" encoding="Windows-1252"?>
<SimBase.Document Type="Launch" version="1,0">
   <Descr>Launch</Descr>
   <Filename>exe.xml</Filename>
   <Disabled>False</Disabled>
   <Launch.ManualLoad>False</Launch.ManualLoad>
   <Launch.Addon>
      <Disabled>False</Disabled>
      <ManualLoad>False</ManualLoad>
      <Name>TrackIR5</Name>
      <Path>C:\Program Files (x86)\NaturalPoint\TrackIR5\TrackIR5.exe</Path>
   </Launch.Addon>
   <Launch.Addon>
      <Disabled>False</Disabled>
      <ManualLoad>False</ManualLoad>
      <Name>AICarriers</Name>
      <Path>E:\AIcarriers\aicarriers.exe</Path>
      <CommandLine>-nogui</CommandLine>
   </Launch.Addon>
   <Launch.Addon>
      <Name>vLSO</Name>
      <Disabled>False</Disabled>
      <Path>E:\vLSO\vLSO.exe</Path>
      <CommandLine>auto</CommandLine>
   </Launch.Addon>
</SimBase.Document>


Russ

Thanks Russ....I was hoping this would be the answer to my problem and while I do see the menu options now in P3D I still don't have vLSO working at NALF Choctaw.  It still works at NOLF Joe Williams.  It is really strange how at one point it was all working but now KNJW is the only field I can get to work.  I will still keep digging into this problem as time permits.

Brandon
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: rsgunner on September 20, 2014, 10:33:23 pm
Brandon

Bring all the FCLP scenery to the top of the scenery library, see if that helps.

My only issue is KNMM has trenches and display issues.

Russ
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: thetford569 on September 22, 2014, 04:09:09 am
Tried putting the scenery entries at the top of the library and also tried flipping the order of them at the top and no joy.  I finally decided to delete both KNJW and KNFJ from the library and download the files again for KNFJ to try it by itself.  I tried and it still didn't work.  I put KNJW in there and when I moved to KNJW then vLSO connects and works.  Moving back to KNFJ or trying to start from there and it still doesn't work.  I hate how finicky FS (P3D in my case) can still be.  I have no idea what could be causing this issue.  I know its certainly not a vLSO problem or a scenery problem from the download.  Sucks that I built this scenery of Choctaw and it was improved and made compatible for vLSO and now I can't use it!  I imagine the only cure for this is a re-install of everything and I'm not ready to do that so I guess I will just deal with KNJW being the only place I can practice FCLP.  I tried Coupeville as well and it wasn't working there either.  I haven't tried the new KNMM pack yet but I'm expecting more of the same.

Brandon
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on September 22, 2014, 07:20:52 am
Brandon and other fellows running P3D,

I've been reading manuals and it is clear now that P3D uses its own set of registry keys. That's why vLSO couldn't reliably locate FCLP areas on P3D setups. That's why I have written a test program to make sure I correctly understand LM written words  ;D

Please run this small proggy (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3pFCe8B4_FGY2c1cmx0aHdzM0U/edit?usp=sharing) on your systems and show me its output (a screenshot). Hopefully it will find all your active FCLP areas...
(http://leadbysoul.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Crossing-Fingers-copy.jpg)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: rsgunner on September 22, 2014, 01:52:38 pm
Here is what mine looks like. I use P3D.

Roaming path: C:\ProgramData

FSX installed in E:\Program Files (x86)\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2\
FSX actual scenery config file found in C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\FSX\

274 scenery definitions read

An active FCLP area FSX_Meridian found. Local path: E:\Program Files (x86)\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2\Addon Scenery\FSX_KNMM\FSX_Meridian

An active FCLP area KNFJ_FCLP found. Local path: E:\Program Files (x86)\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2\Addon Scenery\KNFJ_FCLP

An active FCLP area KNRA_NOLF found. Local path: E:\Program Files (x86)\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2\Addon Scenery\KNRA_NOLF

An active FCLP area KNFE_FCLP found. Local path: E:\Program Files (x86)\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2\Addon Scenery\KNFE_FCLP

An active FCLP area KNJW_FCLP found. Local path: E:\Program Files (x86)\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2\Addon Scenery\KNJW_FCLP


Russ
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on September 22, 2014, 06:59:34 pm
Thanks Russ!
A couple of questions:

Do you have FSX installed on the same computer? My program reported FSX found in LM folder, very interesting.

274 sceneries... Very strange (usually in FSX we have up to 130..140 items). Looks like this number is somehow doubled (by my program, indeed).

What does vLSO show when started on your system? Green or red SimConnect and FSX indicators?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: rsgunner on September 22, 2014, 07:30:23 pm
The fsx executable is in the P3D main directory. Some programs want to see it.

I do have FSX installed on the same HD. I don't use it anymore for simming.

Green on the SimConnect and FSX indicator.

It would be fantastic if there was a P3D version.
I was thrilled that it runs in P3D with just a minimal number of issues.

I will look at the FSX scenery.cfg and see what is there.

Russ

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on September 22, 2014, 08:22:12 pm
Ok, is that 'FSX in the P3D folder' trick documented/recommended somewhere?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: rsgunner on September 22, 2014, 08:25:49 pm
Paddles

The FSX scenery.cfg file list ORBIX and Megascenery plus a bunch of other addon scenery, that is why it list so many.

I discovered something just now. I had put all of the FCLP scenery into FSX just to see if I could get them to work in FSX in the beginning of September, and they did.
It was at that point they begin to work in P3D, I just fired up FSX and and deactivated Choctaw in the scenery library. It would not work in P3D. Only when I activated Choctaw again in FSX would it work in P3D.

It appears the EXE.XML had nothing to do with it.

Seems vLSO is looking for some very specific locations and files.

Thanks for your information.

Russ

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: rsgunner on September 22, 2014, 08:30:06 pm
Ok, is that 'FSX in the P3D folder' trick documented/recommended somewhere?

It has been brought up numerous times especially during some addon installations that don't have a P3D version and hunt for the FSX directory. I just change the registry to point it to the P3D directory that has the FSX. exe in it.

Russ
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on September 22, 2014, 08:47:37 pm
It appears the EXE.XML had nothing to do with it.

Seems vLSO is looking for some very specific locations and files.

Sure, the EXE.XML has nothing to do with sceneries and vLSO looks for the SCENERY.CFG file, then reads it and gets all the necessary information on FCLP locations, if any.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: rsgunner on September 22, 2014, 09:16:25 pm
Paddles

If I do a SCENERY.CFG in FSX that is P3D specific it should work?

Making sure it points to the proper directories.

Russ
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: flyerkg on September 23, 2014, 02:51:18 am
I have not encountered any issues so far.  As an example my Orlando International Airport entry in  FSX Scenery.cfg points to my P3Dv2 installation and loads fine.

[Area.133]
Title=KMCO
Local=C:\Program Files (x86)\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2\Addon Scenery\KMCO\KMCO
Layer=133
Active=TRUE
Required=FALSE

My FSX is on an external drive.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: whiteside on September 24, 2014, 03:08:53 pm
Hi guys, I updated my vLSO from one released early this year to the latest beta. At first try I was able to hear the voice calls but now I just get the textual banner when I should hear the LSO. I re ran 0.7.1.0 and I get normal voice. I tested using the nimitz from the VRS pull down menu, Dinos Tomcat.
Not sure what to do but my use of FSX hinges on this, :)
I LOVE vLSO!
Thanks for the advice in advance and keep up the great work. This program is such a fine addition.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: whiteside on September 24, 2014, 05:18:46 pm
Deinstalled all vlso and redownloaded seems to work testing in progress!
:)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: thetford569 on September 24, 2014, 10:51:19 pm
Sorry it took me a few days to get around to running the checker program...it appears to me that it's only finding my FSX installation.  I have P3D and FSX installed on the same drive but I am really not using FSX anymore.  The only reason I still have FSX installed is because I am running Ultimate Traffic 2 in P3D through my FSX installation plus I have a few other things still to test between FSX and P3D.  I eventually plan to get rid of FSX completely except for a very basic install to test scenery design in.  Screenshot is attached of the FSChecker results...

Brandon
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: thetford569 on September 24, 2014, 11:11:16 pm
Following the tip from Russ I checked my FSX installation and it too had the Choctaw field scenery disabled.  I activated it in the scenery library in FSX and now it is working with vLSO in P3D.  So the fix for now it seems is to make sure that all FCLP scenery is installed and active in FSX as well as P3D.  Also I forgot to mention that when running P3D both the Simconnect and FSX bars in vLSO are showing green and have been every time I have used P3D and vLSO.

Brandon
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: whiteside on September 25, 2014, 03:04:24 am
Checks 4.0 now.
I was getting the exception error and I used your latest .exe file and that seemed to fix it.
Thanks
Really great to be able to use this. It adds to the realism by miles. If we could check in into the marshall stack and hear the LSO chatter with other aircraft that would really add to it!
I Aint complainin' though.
:)
Will
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on September 25, 2014, 05:11:45 am
Guys,
Please download the latest FSchecker version from my blog. All earlier versions searched for either FSX or P3D and on machines with both sims installed stopped after FSX was found. This one will check ALL setups (both FSX and P3D).

Anyone with vLSO successfully running on a P3D only system?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: rsgunner on September 25, 2014, 01:38:50 pm
Paddles

Can't download it.

Reached google limits.

Russ
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on September 25, 2014, 06:18:19 pm
Changed the rights. Please try again
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: rsgunner on September 25, 2014, 07:15:59 pm
This is what showed up running the latest FSChecker.

P3D is installed. The executable is Prepar3D.exe

What programing language is vLSO writtren in?

Russ

Roaming path: C:\ProgramData

------------------------------------------------------
Searching for FSX...

FSX installed in E:\Program Files (x86)\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2\
FSX actual scenery config file found in C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\FSX\

274 scenery definitions read

------------------------------------------------------
Searching for P3D (64 or 32 bit)...

None of P3D versions were found
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on September 26, 2014, 04:53:51 am
Very funny... This means there are no P3D entries in your system's registry. To find those, my program (written in Delphi) uses locations mentioned here (http://www.prepar3d.com/SDKv2/LearningCenter/getting_help/getting_help.html). So, either that info is wrong or your P3D installation was somehow corrupted (or overlapped by FSX or something)...

Could you do some easy explorations for me? Run regedit.exe and open HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE tree. Then, depending on your OS, locate SOFTWARE\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2 or SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2. My program tries to find exactly the same keys as spelled in the above link. If it can't find the keys, then most likely they slightly changed their names - Lockheed Martin to LockheedMartin and/or Prepar3D v2 to Prepar3Dv2...

So, first please make sure one of the key is present, and second, what is the value of its SetupPath parameter?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: rsgunner on September 26, 2014, 02:30:34 pm
The AppPath for P3D is E:\Program Files (x86)\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2\

The above is a copy and paste from the registry. Read from HKEY_CURRENT_USER. My OS is Win 8.1.

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE P3D entry SetUpPath is E:\Program Files (x86)\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2\

I made a mistake when I first posted a response. Corrected with this edit.

Russ
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: thetford569 on September 27, 2014, 12:17:09 am
I ran the newer FS Checker and it showed no P3D entries.  I checked my registry entries and everything seems ok in the Wow6432Node entry...screenshots are attached.  Once I activated each scenery in FSX it now works in vLSO in Prepar3D.  This would seem to line up with the registry entries being wrong but I can't find an issue unless I'm not seeing something right.  The setup path is correct.

Brandon
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on September 29, 2014, 01:01:22 pm
Brandon,
According to your first screenshot you were running an obsolete version of the FSchecker, not the latest one. Anyways, I've compiled another version of the program (version 2) so you should download it again from my blog and check its output.

According to your other screenshot you have (or had) both P3D major versions installed - v.1 and v.2.-  as well as FSX %) Also, you can notice how LM spelled their v1 keys - with no spaces in between...
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: rsgunner on September 29, 2014, 09:22:16 pm
Paddles

Any suggestions concerning the FSChecker?

Russ
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on September 30, 2014, 04:11:50 am
Any suggestions concerning the FSChecker?

The AppPath for P3D is E:\Program Files (x86)\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2\

The above is a copy and paste from the registry. Read from HKEY_CURRENT_USER. My OS is Win 8.1.

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE P3D entry SetUpPath is E:\Program Files (x86)\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2\

Is this correct that there are two P3D keys in your registry?

The AppPath for HKEY_CURRENT_USER root and the SetupPath for HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE root? And both pointing to the same location?

That's very strange, because the AppPath was used for P3D v1, then they changed the key to SetupPath for v2.

Could you show me a screenshot of the FSchecker's output (of the last version 2)?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Orion on September 30, 2014, 05:18:42 am
Is this helpful?

http://www.prepar3d.com/SDKv2/LearningCenter/getting_help/getting_help.html

Quote from: Prepar3d v2 SDK
The following are the default installation directories for Prepar3D and the location of their registry key entries:
32 Bit Operating Systems:

  • Install Location: C:\Program Files\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2\
  • Registry Location: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2
64 Bit Operating Systems:
  • Install Location: C:\Program Files (x86)\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2\
  • Registry Location: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2

http://www.prepar3d.com/sdk/sdk%20overview.html#Hints and Tips

Quote from: Prepar3d SDK
Prepar3D Registry Key Information

Prepar3D's registry key information depends on whether or not you are running a x64 bit or x32 bit Windows machine.

Registry information for computers using a 32-bit architecture is here:

>HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\LockheedMartin\Prepar3D

For computers using a 64-bit architecture the registry key information for the 32 bit Prepar3D application is here:

>HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\LockheedMartin\Prepar3D

Note that v1 is within "LockheedMartin" (no space), whereas v2 is in "Lockheed Martin" (with space).
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on September 30, 2014, 07:23:17 am
Yeah, I know that. The FSchecker v2 tries to find first P3D v2 64 bit, then (if not found) tries 32 bit, then (if not found) P3D v1 64 bit and finally 32 bit...

But what puzzled me most of all was the AppPath parameter found in the E:\Program Files (x86)\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2\ key. Kinda mix of P3D v1 and v2...  :o
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: rsgunner on September 30, 2014, 02:05:02 pm
This is from FSChecker V2

"Roaming path: C:\ProgramData

------------------------------------------------------
Searching for FSX...

FSX installed in E:\Program Files (x86)\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2\

Now reading FSX scenery config file in C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\FSX\...

154 scenery definitions read

------------------------------------------------------
Searching for P3D...

None of P3D versions were found"

Russ
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on October 01, 2014, 04:07:10 am
Oh, my...  :o
Russ, can you provide a couple of screenshots, just like thetford569 did?
What I'd like to see is part of your registry with HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE and HKEY_LOCAL_USER roots, both containing ALL P3D and (possibly) FSX keys.
Thanks!

PS. Looks like W8 is something different than W7 or XP in regard to FS...
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: rsgunner on October 01, 2014, 03:03:32 pm
Paddles

Attached. This is after the 2.4 patch has been applied.

Russ
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on October 01, 2014, 06:31:20 pm
Thanks Russ
Honestly, I expected anything but not AppPath and SetupPath present in the same P3D key...  ::)

Please, show me AppPath and SetupPath values (both in HKLM and HKCU roots).

PS. Oh yes, LM are the best with their 'riddle me that' game...
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: rsgunner on October 01, 2014, 07:07:23 pm
"Please, show me AppPath and SetupPath values (both in HKLM and HKCU roots)."

I am not sure what values you are referring to.

Russ
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on October 01, 2014, 07:18:53 pm
Sorry, didn't see the right part of the attached pictures (notebook screen limits).
Now I can see, both AppPath and SetupPath point to the same location.

Will modify FSchecker appropriately. Stay tuned ;)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: rsgunner on October 01, 2014, 07:38:49 pm
Standing Bye!

Russ
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on October 02, 2014, 01:09:43 pm
Guys,
FSchecker 3 is ready to test. Please download it from my blog and let me know what it finds on your
systems.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: rsgunner on October 02, 2014, 01:39:48 pm
Version 3 results. Not what I waned to see.

"Roaming path: C:\ProgramData

Checking FSX...
------------------------------------------------------

Registry key software\microsoft\microsoft games\flight simulator\10.0 - OK
SetupPath value - E:\Program Files (x86)\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2\
FSX.exe - OK
Now reading FSX scenery config file in C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\FSX\...

154 scenery definitions read



Checking P3D v.2 32 bit...
------------------------------------------------------

Registry key software\lockheed martin\prepar3d v2 - NOT FOUND


Checking P3D v.2 64 bit...
------------------------------------------------------

Registry key software\wow6432node\lockheed martin\prepar3d v2 - NOT FOUND


Checking P3D v.1 32 bit...
------------------------------------------------------

Registry key software\lockheedmartin\prepar3d - NOT FOUND


Checking P3D v.1 64 bit...
------------------------------------------------------

Registry key software\wow6432node\lockheedmartin\prepar3d - NOT FOUND"


Russ
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on October 02, 2014, 01:55:58 pm
UNBELIEVABLE!!!...

My only (and the last) guess now is that this W8 registry is CASE sensitive. No other explanations to this weird behaviour...
Shoud we try this way?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: rsgunner on October 02, 2014, 03:05:57 pm
Give it a try.

I hope this doesn't require a lot of work on your part.

Russ
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on October 02, 2014, 05:09:46 pm
Ok, my latest FSchecker version is on my blog. Now it's CasE SeNSItiVE
Please redownload and run it again.

Knock on wood...
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSdi9F0wKxL_kcgMyJXaysq3294Vf6MjD8Q8POEOxR5CUkHbCfWjw)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: rsgunner on October 02, 2014, 06:45:12 pm
Paddles

Sam results. Let me try something and I will get back to you in a few minutes

Russ

Roaming path: C:\ProgramData

Checking FSX...
------------------------------------------------------

Registry key SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Microsoft Games\Flight Simulator\10.0 - OK
SetupPath value - E:\Program Files (x86)\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2\
FSX.exe - OK
Now trying to read FSX scenery config file C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\FSX\Scenery.cfg...

OK, 154 scenery definitions read



Checking P3D v.2 32 bit...
------------------------------------------------------

Registry key SOFTWARE\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2 - NOT FOUND


Checking P3D v.2 64 bit...
------------------------------------------------------

Registry key SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2 - NOT FOUND


Checking P3D v.1 32 bit...
------------------------------------------------------

Registry key SOFTWARE\LockheedMartin\Prepar3D - NOT FOUND


Checking P3D v.1 64 bit...
------------------------------------------------------

Registry key SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\LockheedMartin\Prepar3D - NOT FOUND
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: rsgunner on October 02, 2014, 07:18:01 pm
My experiment didn't work,

Russ
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on October 03, 2014, 04:09:19 am
(http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/1302733878503.gif?w=480&h=272)

Perhaps trying to run the program as admin?...
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: rsgunner on October 03, 2014, 02:27:17 pm
Paddles.

That is how I ran it.

Russ
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on October 09, 2014, 03:23:24 pm
Couple LSO call questions:

So I am trying to understand when the LSO would say "don't settle" vs. "you're low" vs. "little power", don't they all essentially mean the same thing?

My take is "don't settle" is used when you are trending low on the approach. "you're low" is an informative call used early in the approach (X to IM). "little power" is used when you are going to go below glideslope if power is not added, and is an imperative call used closer to the ramp. Does that sound right?

Same thoughts on following calls: "attitude", "easy with it", "don't go high". I assume "attitude" is used when your nose gets low, slightly flat attitude, and power and attitude (AoA) are not presenting good info to the pilot. "easy with it" means you are overpowered, and fast (AoA red chevron) and is an imperative call used closer to the ramp (IM to IW). "don't go high" is an informative call used early in the approach (X to IM).

Just trying to understand these calls better, when they are used, what they mean, and also wanted to see if this is how vLSO utilizes these calls (logic).

Thanks.   
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on October 09, 2014, 05:55:01 pm
I'm not a trained LSO so there is that. Attached are the LSO radio calls from PDF as indicated.

NATOPS LANDING SIGNAL OFFICER MANUAL 01 May 2009

http://www.wings-of-gold.com/cnatra/LSONATOPSMAY09.pdf (2.6Mb)

INFORMATIVE CALLS: Used to inform pilots of existing situations.

ADVISORY CALLS: Used to direct pilot’s attention to potential difficulties and prevent possible control errors.

IMPERATIVE CALLS: Used to direct the pilot to execute a specific control action. MANDATORY IMMEDIATE RESPONSE
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: jcverrett on October 12, 2014, 04:29:54 am
Here are my results. I do not have P3D 1.3 in stalled but I do have ver 2.4 installed on my SSD drive D:\P3D. Not sure if tis helps.

Jon

Roaming path: C:\ProgramData

Checking FSX...
------------------------------------------------------

Registry key SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Microsoft Games\Flight Simulator\10.0 - OK
SetupPath value - E:\Microsoft Games\Microsoft Flight Simulator X
FSX.exe - NOT FOUND
Now trying to read FSX scenery config file C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\FSX\Scenery.cfg...

OK, 147 scenery definitions read



Checking P3D v.2 32 bit...
------------------------------------------------------

Registry key SOFTWARE\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2 - NOT FOUND


Checking P3D v.2 64 bit...
------------------------------------------------------

Registry key SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2 - NOT FOUND


Checking P3D v.1 32 bit...
------------------------------------------------------

Registry key SOFTWARE\LockheedMartin\Prepar3D - NOT FOUND


Checking P3D v.1 64 bit...
------------------------------------------------------

Registry key SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\LockheedMartin\Prepar3D - NOT FOUND
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on October 13, 2014, 04:16:09 am
Thanks Jon.
Some more questions:

What OS do you have?
FSchecker reports FSX registry keys are there, but no fsx.exe found. Is FSX still present in your system? Does it work properly (I mean if there's no fsx.exe it shouldn't)?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: jcverrett on October 24, 2014, 02:48:03 am
Thanks Jon.
Some more questions:

What OS do you have?
FSchecker reports FSX registry keys are there, but no fsx.exe found. Is FSX still present in your system? Does it work properly (I mean if there's no fsx.exe it shouldn't)?


I am running on Windows 7 Home Premium 64. FSX is still installed on my E drive.

Sorry for the delay been real busy at work lately.

Jon
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: rsgunner on October 27, 2014, 05:04:27 pm
Paddles

Any new ideas in regards to P3D and the FSChecker?

Russ

Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: syn on November 01, 2014, 03:57:00 pm
Couple LSO call questions:

So I am trying to understand when the LSO would say "don't settle" vs. "you're low" vs. "little power", don't they all essentially mean the same thing?

My take is "don't settle" is used when you are trending low on the approach. "you're low" is an informative call used early in the approach (X to IM). "little power" is used when you are going to go below glideslope if power is not added, and is an imperative call used closer to the ramp. Does that sound right?

Same thoughts on following calls: "attitude", "easy with it", "don't go high". I assume "attitude" is used when your nose gets low, slightly flat attitude, and power and attitude (AoA) are not presenting good info to the pilot. "easy with it" means you are overpowered, and fast (AoA red chevron) and is an imperative call used closer to the ramp (IM to IW). "don't go high" is an informative call used early in the approach (X to IM).

Just trying to understand these calls better, when they are used, what they mean, and also wanted to see if this is how vLSO utilizes these calls (logic).

Thanks.   

I also think that vLSO should make less advisory calls and more imperative calls as you get closer in. I also miss having more "power"/"easy with it" calls :'(
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Taras on November 09, 2014, 11:57:21 am
Hi guys
First of all, thanks for vLSO,  great program that brings a lot of reality to carrier ops

Unfortunately for a while I deal with a little problem.  

vLSO is not able to recognized and identified  FCLP airbases,but all carriers are identified and with them vLSO works correctly
I have NAS Meridian KNMM and Fentress KNFE sceneries, all installed properly, according the install instructions (in add-on scenery folder there are the appropriate "tag" files in each of the scenery folders)

Do you have any suggestions what could lead to that problem?

Thanks for any help

Taras
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: discoferret on November 12, 2014, 07:04:27 pm
Hi, I have just started using vLSO and have a problem with a "wave off" after I've caught the wire, which obviously give me a cut pass. It happens a lot, has anyone else having the same problem?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on November 12, 2014, 07:16:45 pm
discoferret,

Can you post a screen shot of the vLSO debrief when this happens? Is it an On/On pass, with a random WO in the wires? Or is it a dive "spotting the wires" pass, which deserves a late WO? Could also be a delay in the program due to many calls being triggered, are you getting a lot of calls prior to the WO call?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on November 12, 2014, 07:35:29 pm
Paddles,

Looking forward to the $HB feature in vLSO, I've been practicing


 8)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: discoferret on November 12, 2014, 10:56:57 pm
discoferret,

Can you post a screen shot of the vLSO debrief when this happens? Is it an On/On pass, with a random WO in the wires? Or is it a dive "spotting the wires" pass, which deserves a late WO? Could also be a delay in the program due to many calls being triggered, are you getting a lot of calls prior to the WO call?

Here's the debrief pics. I'm hardly getting any calls prior to the WO just a few like "dont settle"

(http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae80/discoferret/FERRET-PC-2014-nov-12-005_zps7da17cf4.jpg) (http://s959.photobucket.com/user/discoferret/media/FERRET-PC-2014-nov-12-005_zps7da17cf4.jpg.html)

(http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae80/discoferret/FERRET-PC-2014-nov-12-006_zpse7435b4c.jpg) (http://s959.photobucket.com/user/discoferret/media/FERRET-PC-2014-nov-12-006_zpse7435b4c.jpg.html)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 13, 2014, 06:31:39 am
vLSO is not able to recognized and identified  FCLP airbases,but all carriers are identified and with them vLSO works correctly
I have NAS Meridian KNMM and Fentress KNFE sceneries, all installed properly, according the install instructions (in add-on scenery folder there are the appropriate "tag" files in each of the scenery folders)
Taras,
Do I get it right, that when approaching a FCLP area you don't see any text messages stating that you're in that area (as in case with carriers)?
Try to run the program with the log option, you should have in the vLSO_log.txt file something like this:

6/19/2013 4:00:42 PM Program started
6/19/2013 4:00:42 PM FSX connection established
6/19/2013 4:00:42 PM User aircraft detected (F18)
6/19/2013 4:00:48 PM FCLP location NALF Fentress (runway 23) set as current


Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 13, 2014, 06:36:40 am
Here's the debrief pics. I'm hardly getting any calls prior to the WO just a few like "dont settle"
discoferret,
That is a nice solid pass, so it's my program's fault, not yours.
This AR/IW waveoffs glitch will be fixed in the next vLSO release.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: discoferret on November 13, 2014, 08:18:17 am
Here's the debrief pics. I'm hardly getting any calls prior to the WO just a few like "dont settle"
discoferret,
That is a nice solid pass, so it's my program's fault, not yours.
This AR/IW waveoffs glitch will be fixed in the next vLSO release.

Ok thanks. Looking forward to the update.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Taras on November 13, 2014, 10:34:58 pm
vLSO is not able to recognized and identified  FCLP airbases,but all carriers are identified and with them vLSO works correctly
I have NAS Meridian KNMM and Fentress KNFE sceneries, all installed properly, according the install instructions (in add-on scenery folder there are the appropriate "tag" files in each of the scenery folders)
Taras,
Do I get it right, that when approaching a FCLP area you don't see any text messages stating that you're in that area (as in case with carriers)?
Try to run the program with the log option, you should have in the vLSO_log.txt file something like this:

6/19/2013 4:00:42 PM Program started
6/19/2013 4:00:42 PM FSX connection established
6/19/2013 4:00:42 PM User aircraft detected (F18)
6/19/2013 4:00:48 PM FCLP location NALF Fentress (runway 23) set as current




Paddles,

that is correct, I can't see any text messages stating that I'm in FCLP area.

I took off from KNFE, made one cirquit, TGL and then created with TacPack one carrier and did several approaches. As you can see in log file everything with carrier worked fine.
As you requested I attached log file from vLSO and image from FSX addon scenery folder
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 14, 2014, 08:13:05 am
Well... I'd suggest first run my program FSchecker (found on the vLSO blog) and then see what it finds.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Taras on November 14, 2014, 06:04:41 pm
Here is the result from FSchecker
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 15, 2014, 05:16:22 am
taras24,
As I can see, none of your FCLP sceneries is ENABLED in Scenery Library. Can you give me a screenshot of your Scenery Library screen?
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Taras on November 15, 2014, 09:03:11 am
Here is the screenshot from my Scenery Lib and I attached Scenery.cfg too
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 15, 2014, 07:01:12 pm
taras24,
Now I know what's the problem. When installing FCLP sceneries (and a few other sceneries, according to your Scenery.cfg file) you double-clicked on them, so FSX stored their paths with this additional part \scenery, whereas any scenery already has two folders (scenery and texture) inside its main folder and there's no need to specify them additionally.

I'd suggest you first uninstall them and then install again clicking their folders once. That's it!  :)
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Taras on November 16, 2014, 01:43:05 pm
Paddles
Thank you very much for your help, every FCLP was recognized, now it's working fine :)   
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Paddles on November 16, 2014, 03:10:51 pm
Happy bouncing!  ;D
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Archi on November 23, 2014, 12:37:56 pm
I have also problems with P3D v2.4 (win7x64)

I get following error message when launching vLso.exe:

FSX Acceleration not found!

The vLSO program may not work properly.



Flight sim checker gives me this:

Roaming path: C:\ProgramData

Checking FSX...
------------------------------------------------------

Registry key SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Microsoft Games\Flight Simulator\10.0 - NOT FOUND



Checking P3D v.2 32 bit...
------------------------------------------------------

Registry key SOFTWARE\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2 - OK
SetupPath value - E:\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2\
Prepar3D.exe - OK
Now trying to read P3D scenery config file C:\ProgramData\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2\Scenery.cfg...

OK, 180 scenery definitions read



Checking P3D v.2 64 bit...
------------------------------------------------------

Registry key SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v2 - NOT FOUND


Checking P3D v.1 32 bit...
------------------------------------------------------

Registry key SOFTWARE\LockheedMartin\Prepar3D - NOT FOUND


Checking P3D v.1 64 bit...
------------------------------------------------------

Registry key SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\LockheedMartin\Prepar3D - NOT FOUND


Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: Archi on November 23, 2014, 08:52:53 pm
I got vLso running on P3D 2.4!!  After few landings it seems to work fine and no more error messages on startup. I installed the Migration Tool from Flightsim Estonia and I think that program did the magic to get it working!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on December 02, 2014, 08:41:29 pm
Not sure if folks are aware of Aerosoft's F-14 to be released tomorrow, but it will include a new carrier, the Kitty Hawk.

They reworked the FLOLS in FSX, and we now will have 3.5 degree glideslope  :o, more details here;  http://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/88861-pre-release-f-14-topic/

You can also download the manuals (pre release), for more gouge on the FLOLS.

Hope vLSO will support this new carrier when released!
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on December 02, 2014, 10:15:47 pm
I have not joined that forum so perhaps the link to the 'manuals' is inside? Any chance a link to 'the manuals' (about IFLOLS) could be provided here please? Thanks.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: GOONIE on December 03, 2014, 02:35:55 pm
Attached.
Title: Re: vLSO Beta release
Post by: SpazSinbad on December 04, 2014, 06:54:07 am
Thanks for that 'Goonie'