Author Topic: TrafficX and Fsdt KJFK  (Read 15831 times)

Nborra

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TrafficX and Fsdt KJFK
« on: March 28, 2009, 12:46:53 am »
Hi All, I've bought your KJFK add-on and I do really love It.
But I have an issue with the TrafficX addon: since I've installed it the ILS for the 4L runway doesn't work correctly (it drives my too to the left and vertical indicator doesn't work at all).
I've posted this issue to the TrafficX forum and they suggested me to rename TrafficX's AFX_KJFK.bgl file in AFX_KJFK.bak in order to restore your scenery's .bgl file. I did it and then I've disintalled/reinstalled KJFK scenery but the ILS doesn't work yet.
Any suggestion from yous side? What can I verify to see if your scenery's configuration is now actually correct?
Thanks in advance for your kind support.

virtuali

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Re: TrafficX and Fsdt KJFK
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2009, 01:37:18 am »
There wasn't any need to uninstall/reinstall JFK. The ILS is in the AFCAD file, which is named AF2*.bgl. If you had the ILS working before, there must some other BGL in conflict, somewere.

Try to use the ADE program to check how many BGL you have for JFK. There should be 2 in total: the default from MS, and ours. If you have more, delete all the extra.

Nborra

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Re: TrafficX and Fsdt KJFK
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2009, 05:44:29 pm »
Thanks Umberto for your reply.
Since I'm not an expert in managing FSX files I need again your help: where can I find the AF2*.bgl file?
I've made a search  for "AF2*.bgl" files in my FSX's installation folder and I've found the followings JFK-related files:
AF2_JFKA.bgl
AF2_JFKC.bgl
AF2_JFKD.bgl
AF2_JFKE.bgl
AF2_JFKF.bgl
AF2_JFKG.bgl
AF2_JFKH.bgl
AF2_JFKJ.bgl
AF2_JFKL.bgl
AF2_JFKO.bgl
AF2_JFKS.bgl
AF2_JFKX.bgl

All these files are in the ...TrafficX\AirportFacilities\Scenery subfolder in my FSX installation folder.
Where should I find your scenery's .bgl file and the default one?
ciao

virtuali

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Re: TrafficX and Fsdt KJFK
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2009, 06:20:09 pm »
Our scenery is installed into the Fsdreamteam\JFK\scenery folder under the main FSX folder. The file is named AP_KJFK.BGL, and is probably the only one you don't need to be worry about, because is sure it's correct.

Instead, you should have followed my advice of using the ADE program to search for JFK-related files, because it's not granted that an AFCAD file will always be named like AF2*-something so, if you just search for it using the regular search, you might miss a file which might be related to JFK, but not be named AF2*-something...

THAT'S why I told you to use a specific AFCAD file utility, and the free ADE is absolutely fine to use with FSX, and is able to find every file related to a specific airport, regardless how it has been named.

In any case, once you have found all the AFCADs for JFK, you need to delete (or rename to something other than *.BGL) them all, EXCEPT the default one from Microsoft, which will surely not cause prolems, and the one we supply in the fsdreamteam folder.

NOTE that, there are TWO AFCADs in our fsdreamteam folder: the other one is named appr_KFJK.bgl, and it contains only Approaches. We do it like this, so users are free to edit the main AFCAD file without worrying of having to use an utility that doesn't destroy the Approach data when saving back, like the original AFCAD program. You don't want to remove this file as well so, even if it's for JFK, and it might look like a duplicate, it's not, and you shouldn't delete it.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2009, 06:23:09 pm by virtuali »

Nborra

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Re: TrafficX and Fsdt KJFK
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2009, 06:41:50 pm »
Umberto, while you where writing I've downloaded the program "FSX Airport Scanner (00.08.05)" and used it to check for duplicated .bgl files. It seems much easier to use than ADE for a newbee like me...

The program has found only the two .bgl files for KJFK you mentioned (since I've already renamed the TrafficX's AFX_KJFK.bgl in AFX_KJFK.bak):

app_KJFK.bgl
appr_KJFK.BGL

both in \FsDreamTeam\JFK\scenery folder.
Anyway I'm going to dowload ADE and try to understand how to use it for checking duplicated .bgl files.
Ciao
« Last Edit: March 29, 2009, 06:51:58 pm by Nborra »

virtuali

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Re: TrafficX and Fsdt KJFK
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2009, 07:25:47 pm »
The FSX Airport scanner is fine to check for duplicates. ADE is more useful to check the AFCAD itself.

However, it's strange you have several AFCAD for JFK in the MyTrafficX scenery folder, and the airport scanner can't find them. Are they disabled in the Library ?

Nborra

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Re: TrafficX and Fsdt KJFK
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2009, 09:09:11 pm »
In the scenery library I have only a generic "Traffic X Airport Facilities" that is enabled...

virtuali

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Re: TrafficX and Fsdt KJFK
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2009, 10:42:30 pm »
If it points to the folder that contains the files you found, then it's strange why the Airport scanned hasn't found them, because they certainly looks like to be AFCAD files, by the look of it. As I've said, I'd start by removing those files (BTW, why there are so many for JFK ?) and see if the ILS issue will fix itself.

BTW, this is really a question you better do on the MyTraffic X support forum. We are discussing files coming from them and the fix will certainly be removing either a file from MyTraffic X OR another file from another product that might contains a similar offending file that creates a problem with JFK. So, there's not much more we can help you with, because it's difficult to be more specific, without knowing exactly what these files contains, what they do, etc.

Another possible fix youj can try, is to put JFK scenery on top of everything else in the Scenery Library, which if of course exactly were our installer put it by default, but it might not be there anymore, either because you have installed something else after it, or if you manually moved it.

Nborra

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Re: TrafficX and Fsdt KJFK
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2009, 11:03:18 pm »
JFK is already on top in the scenery library.
Anyway I'll try with TrafficX support forum.
BTW: using ADE I've noticed that 4L ILS has the same frequency of the ILS for 22L (110.9)... could this be the problem?
Thanks for your help anyway, I'll be back if I get some news from them.
Ciao
« Last Edit: March 29, 2009, 11:09:51 pm by Nborra »

virtuali

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Re: TrafficX and Fsdt KJFK
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2009, 11:58:00 pm »
BTW: using ADE I've noticed that 4L ILS has the same frequency of the ILS for 22L (110.9)... could this be the problem?

That's a very good find! Yes, of course this might be a problem and...

It's how it is in real world! It looks like JFK is really unusual, because 4L and 22L share the same frequency, as 4R and 22R do, which is not really possible to simulate because, usually, the shared frequencies are on the two ends of the SAME runway so, it would be enough to flag one end to be of the "back-course" type so, you just set the BC option on the radio, and it would work.

But, in this case, the shared frequency is on two different runways so, back course wouldn't work.

In real life, the tower will just turn off the transmitter for the runways that aren't in use because either the two 4s will be in use, or the two 22s, it will never happen that 4 and 22 would be in use at the same time.

I don't know right now which would be the lessen of the two evils: either changing the frequency to a different non-real life value, which might cause issues with charts, flight planners, live controllers when flying online, etc... OR to have different AFCADs with not all the ILSs turned on at the same time, to be used depending on weather...

We are open to suggestion, because this is something that neither FS9 or FSX can really support

Funny that nobody else noticed it before...

JamesChams

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Re: TrafficX and Fsdt KJFK
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2009, 01:04:43 am »
I don't know if this has changed from the time you created things but here are the current frequencies:-

KJFK
ILS Rwy 4R / 22R Freq. 109.50 MHz
ILS Rwy 4L / 22L Freq. 110.90 MHz [THIS IS HOW IT IS INTENDED TO BE IN REAL LIFE BECAUSE THEY ARE OPPOSITE RECIPROCAL ENDS OF THE SAME RUNWAY]

And in the real world this is NOT a problem; because each ILS transmits ONLY one radial (the on-course Heading of the runway) so, you should pick up the localizer for either as intended, or, if required, do a side step (when a visual is established) as designated by the Tower at the facility.  And, the same for the Back Course (BC), which is simultaneously transmitted for a missed approach/back course guidance on a go-around.  Its the way that a civil authority can save the city tax revenue and maintaince cost of having to maintain multi-transmitter facilities.  Futhermore, The way to determine which runway's heading is to choose from, is the inbound course heading, on the approach plate for the appropriate runway.  In real life, the NAV radio will ONLY pick up that LOC heading for the ILS as NO other is being transmitted; unlike in a VOR which gives all radials/spokes.  So, if you were on a RUNWAY 22 Approach L or R would be different frequencies but same inbound heading.  Same with Runway 4's L or R.  But, what might be confusing you is the AFCAD may not be correct to this... Am I correct in my understand of the FS situation?  I don't use FS9 but didn't see this problem in FSX.

Hope this helps anyone.  :) 
« Last Edit: March 30, 2009, 05:51:30 am by JamesChams »
"Walk with the wise and become wise; associate with fools and get in trouble.” (Prov.13:20 NIV)
Thank you very much.
Sincerely,
From,
  James F. Chams


virtuali

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Re: TrafficX and Fsdt KJFK
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2009, 02:06:22 am »
Quote
KJFK
ILS Rwy 4R / 22R Freq. 109.50 MHz
ILS Rwy 4L / 22L Freq. 110.90 MHz [THIS IS HOW IT IS INTENDED TO BE IN REAL LIFE BECAUSE THEY ARE OPPOSITE ENDS OF THE SAME RUNWAY]

Sorry, but they aren't. 4L/22L are NOT opposite ends of the same runway, nor 4R/22R are!!! 4L/22R and 4R/22L would have been instead!


Quote
So, if you were on a RUNWAY 22 Approach L or R would be different frequencies but same inbound heading.  Same with Runway 4's L or R.

Apart for the fact that 4L/22L are not opposite ends of the same runway, as 4R/22R aren't as well, in case of the 22R, there's the added complication that is an OFFSET ILS while 22L is not, so even the inbound heading wouldn't be the same, because it's 222 for 22R and 225 for 22L


Quote
But, what might be confusing you is the AFCAD may not be correct to this... Am I correct in my understand of the FS situation?  I don't use FS9 but didn't see this problem in FSX.

The AFCAD that comes with the scenery IS correct, 4R/22R are set to 109.5 and 4L//22L are set to 110.9.

However, I've just checked now inside FSX, and I don't see the problem too. The 4R/22R pair works fine, and there's also the difference of 22R being offset while 4R it's not, so it obviously it's a different ILS that gets picked up, even if the frequency is the same.

So, apparently, FSX IS smart enough to figure out which ILS to show depending on the heading (I guess, if you are more than 180 degress apart from an ILS, it will always give precedence to the other one on the same freq.) so this is probably a false alarm.

No idea what would happen in FS9, but the original poster said he used FSX, so we are now back to the theory of another scenery in conflict.

« Last Edit: March 30, 2009, 02:09:50 am by virtuali »

JamesChams

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Re: TrafficX and Fsdt KJFK
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2009, 04:50:46 am »
Virtuali,

It was just a typo; I was cutting and pasting too fast as I only had a few minutes; but you understand my point - that this is NOT an issue in real life; correct?  Is it an issue in FS9 only then?

PS: in a real NAV radio even if you put an incorrect CRS Heading for an ILS it actually only reads the correct (offset) transmitted radial heading as there is NO other spokes.  How FS does this, I have NO clue.  ::)
« Last Edit: March 30, 2009, 05:50:57 am by JamesChams »
"Walk with the wise and become wise; associate with fools and get in trouble.” (Prov.13:20 NIV)
Thank you very much.
Sincerely,
From,
  James F. Chams


Jürgen Krebs

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Re: TrafficX and Fsdt KJFK
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2009, 01:06:41 pm »
There wasn't any need to uninstall/reinstall JFK. The ILS is in the AFCAD file, which is named AF2*.bgl. If you had the ILS working before, there must some other BGL in conflict, somewere.

Try to use the ADE program to check how many BGL you have for JFK. There should be 2 in total: the default from MS, and ours. If you have more, delete all the extra.

Hello Umberto,
I've exactly the same problems with the ILS-Approach to KJFK-RW 04 L (I've also installed FSDT-KJFK and TrafficX from JustFlight).
I've followed your suggestion to use the ADE-program to check how many BGL I have for JFK. But although you've said that there should be 2 in total (the default from MS, and the FSDT-one) ADE found only the MS-one, not yours. So, what is wrong and what else can I do for having a correct ILS-approach on RW 04L?
With best regards
Jürgen Krebs 

virtuali

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Re: TrafficX and Fsdt KJFK
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2009, 01:26:34 am »
But although you've said that there should be 2 in total (the default from MS, and the FSDT-one) ADE found only the MS-one, not yours. So, what is wrong and what else can I do for having a correct ILS-approach on RW 04L?

I'm sorry but, other than confirming the ILS in the scenery is correct, I don't know what else to say, other than keep looking for another scenery in conflict.

Note that, using ADE or FSX Airport scanner, will only find ILS inside an AFCAD.

However, the AFCAD it's not the only way to put an ILS in a scenery, it's just the more compliant and recent but, if you have a scenery made with SCASM or any other pre-FS9 scenery creation utility, it's possible this might have an ILS inserted in that way, and if this is the case, it will NOT be found by ANY AFCAD scanning utility.