Author Topic: F/A-18 C/D aircraft mod and textures (FSX/P3D)  (Read 212584 times)

PhantomTweak

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #60 on: May 12, 2015, 08:00:54 pm »
Thanks for all the info Jimi and Peter!! You guys are a gold mine of data.
Off the bat, to the best of my knowledge, there is no ejection capability in FSX/FS9 at all, I was trying to make a little funny about reaching for the pretty black & yellow "handle" on an easy chair :) As to the spin recovery switch, no I don't know of a KB shortcut but if it's in there somewhere I'll dig it out! I would guess, however, that having said that, if it was up to me, I would bet Jimi would know, since I presume he placed the switch in the plane. I will look through the various gauges and switches in the Panel.cfg and see what I can find.
As to "in-flight" testing, I am still working on it. For some reason I have yet to ferret out (exactly what reason I mean) I can fairly easily shoot carrier traps all day long in the FSXBA version, but in the NH version, I wind up in the fantail every time. I hope the smoking lamp is out, so no one's back there! If I keep enough power on to miss the fantail, I overshoot the wires by at least 100', and if I try a nice smooth approach, starting at 600'AGL at 1 nmi from Mom, I am what seems way high. Any lower, way low. In the FSXBA, 600' @ 1nmi is perfect to trap a 3 wire. I am not certain, but it's probably just me. I am NOT a professional. I am also playing with the view point, ONLY in mine, for my personal taste. I almost always do in planes.
I WILL figure this out though. On land approaches, with a glideslope, I make a perfect touchdown every time, both versions, no problem. None of the carriers I have have a GS available though, why I have no idea. I know RW carriers have them, when the systems are up, anyway. IFOLS only goes so far. No pun intended. I'll figure it out :)
It seems like the NH has a little more engine power, but a slightly slower engine response. It also seems to bleed energy faster with the flaps full at 150KIAS or less. I believe this is due to the adjustments you made to the Aircraft.cfg flaps settings. I may take a look at the .air file also, and see what I can see in it, if it's ok with you. I've done a lot of work on this particular subject on Dino's F-14B in FS9, and as near as I can figure, the flaps react the same to all settings in FSX as well. I mean absolutely no offense to yourself, Jimi,  or Dino. I just like to fiddle  ;D If it bothers anyone, I'll leave it be. Are the flaps the entire reason? I doubt it, but their settings in the aircraft.cfg and .air files can make a big difference. I'll keep you informed.
I've also noticed that your beefing up the landing gear contact points setting has made a noticeable difference, allowing me to use the proper sink rate for landings. In the FSXBA the gear tend to take a lot more damage a lot more easily during even what I consider an "easy" touchdown on the boat, which isn't right. I know for a fact that about 825 FPS sink rate is correct, but the FSXBA seems to take damage at that sink rate, which isn't right. Anyway, small detail, not critical. I was going to get to it on my own eventually. Like I said, I like to "fiddle" :D
I hope all my rambling helps the project a little bit. This is an amazing bird, in all versions, and if I can contribute anything it's a big honor to me. As the man said, "Ahh'll be bach!"
Pat☺

jimi08

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #61 on: May 13, 2015, 03:32:27 pm »
Hey Phantom,

Welcome to the crew of fsx tweakers my friend!  Sounds like you are going down the same path that myself, Peter, Sludge, Micro and many others have gone down in the pursuit of perfection in regards to accurate flight simulation.

Just wanted to say that I have no issues at all with changing or tweaking the various parameters of the aircraft.  We are all here to learn, have fun and contribute our lessons learned.

In regards to the sink rate, how heavy are you when you are trapping?  I remember I had the gear tolerance settings beefed previously, but then adjusted them due to feedback from Peter a while back.  Make sure you factored in the weight here.  I believe the max trap for Legacies are 33,000lbs.  With everything on the hornet such as drop tanks and pylons, you need to be around 8K or below and at the correct decent rate to safely trap without damaging anything.  If you are still having issues, let me know and I will re-investigate.

Just ran into this article while doing some research.  Talks a LOT about the FCS system in the Super Hornet (which is derived from the Legacy in many regards).  Definitely a good read for those interested.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=26&ved=0CEAQFjAFOBQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtic.mil%2Fcgi-bin%2FGetTRDoc%3FAD%3DADP011127&ei=tUtTVYiWGYWlNvqmgKgO&usg=AFQjCNFcr5lf99gdDIcB7zRTG0P0woeyLw&sig2=ByIN6MM1COPjNG-EHaBEaA&bvm=bv.93112503,d.eXY

Justin "Jimi" Hendrix
FSX Blue Angels
FSXBA F/A-18C Hornet Latest Download Link: http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,6944.msg117011.html#msg1

PhantomTweak

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #62 on: May 13, 2015, 08:52:51 pm »
Hiyas Jimi, and ty for the warm welcome  :)
I will read that PDF asap. Thanks for the referral. Like I said, you all are an absolute gold mine of fantastic data to play with.
I was looking at the gear parameters in the contact points section of both the 15.2 and the NH v1.8 versions of the C model yourself and Peter released. For brevity (and because I'm lazy!) I'll just call then the FSXBA and NH versions, if that's ok. BTW: would the FSXBA Prototype v1.55 be a better choice? It looks like the latest version from you, but I don't believe it's completed yet? I just want to use the best choice for tweaking on :)
Anyway, back to the gear: I have a question or two. I noticed entries 9, 10, and 11, basically the gear data for how they react to landing, especially 10 and 11, along with entry 5, the max descent speed for damage incurred, are a good deal lower that I have ever seen used before. Even the SDK online, which I utilize extensively, https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc526949.aspx#mozTocId136011, uses 3200 for that entry, even though that seems fast to me. I would think, though it gives me a headache,  that that would be a place to start, although I haven't done the math for the descent rate. I guess I should.
I make sure I am at a fuel load of 5klbs for recoveries, so the plane's weight is below 31.5k total, to finally answer your question. I also try to enure my sink rate is below 850 FPM, although it seems more difficult on the NH version, for me. I am beginning to think it has to do with the changes to the flaps Peter has made. Again, still looking :)
I am doing recovery after recovery on a carrier (FCBG_ADE_TM FSXF-CarrierGroupMiramarPUB V4.0) with AICarriers.NET running, trying to see what I'm doing wrong, and perfect my technique, to try to eliminate as many variables as I can. I tried V5.0, but I get a crash messages anytime I'm in the recovery area for some reason. I am thinking of turning crash detection off entirely so I can use v5.0.
I'll keep y'all up-to-date on my progress, if any. Again, ty for the warm welcome, and I hope I can contribute a tiny little bit to this grand project. I an madly in love with both the FSXBA v15.2 and the NH v1.8 versions.
And now, I'm going flying  ;D
Pat☺

 

hd764jvgd843

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #63 on: May 14, 2015, 05:11:35 am »
Sorry for the delayed answer but I have been en route the last days.

Thanks for your kind works, Jimi.
Pat, from my side you are welcome too to tweak as much as you like. Feel free to mod yourself! Your feedback and suggestions will be welcome.

All things you have noticed and described so far I can confirm. They are probably in violation of NATOPS, I hope not too much. I will try to fix the most evident ones this weekend, so the plane does not bend the laws of physics too much. This especially includes the beefed up landing gear you have experienced, which is in fact a result of the changed flaps' lift and drag scalars, as the gear's damage thresholds remained unchanged.

Currently, some ideas of a simplistic/basic testing procedure as a starting point in order to get the mod within NATOPS are running through my mind. I will post these later for discussion, too.

Peter
« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 05:16:49 am by hd764jvgd843 »

PhantomTweak

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #64 on: May 14, 2015, 05:49:13 am »
Take your time, Peter. I quit being in a hurry many years ago. My feet just hurt too much any more to hurry. Makes more grey in my beard too, and I certainly don't need that!
I'll look forward to your input. Every little bit helps, that's for sure. Like I've always said, I am NO test pilot :) Thank you for the permissions. I appreciate it. Once I make any significant, substantive changes, I'll post then in this thread, or elsewhere, if you prefer. I have started the process, but it's a slow process, especially when I can only give it a few hours each day. But I will keep at it, as best I can!
Talk to you as and when we meet up in here :D
Pat☺

PhantomTweak

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #65 on: May 16, 2015, 08:04:05 pm »
Just a short update, and a small question:
I think I may finally have gotten the flaps settings correct in the Aircraft.cfg and the .air file in the latest NH version. It fly's straight and level at 32k lbs weight, about 160 kts (roughly), 1,000' MSL, gear and full flaps down, 89-90% N2. I got this from the NATOPS, the Carrier Landing Pattern picture. It specifies these parameters for the downwind. A1-F18AC-NFM-000, Figure 8-2. Carrier Landing Pattern, pg. III-8-10, to be exact. I am very pleased so far. Now I need to see how they do when making turns at various speeds and the FCS deploys the flaps automatically. We shall see! Still playing with the gear settings, but getting there.
Ok, now the problem: I've found that when I make a right turn, level, 1,000 MSL, any speed or weight, even just bank that direction without pulling to make a turn, the rudder goes right also. Normal, perfectly normal. HOWEVER, when I am wings level again, the rudders stay cocked over to the right. I can re-zero the rudders by a twitch  twist (ie: a quick twist and then relax the input back to 0 ) on the joystick, either direction. But I shouldn't have to do that. The rudders should return to 0 yaw when the bank angle does. I know there is a portion of the FCS controlling the rudders, but it seems there is a slight problem with it. I am far from an XML programmer, but I do play with them a little bit. I plan on taking a look to see twhat's going on, but since Jimi wrote the auto-rudder part of the FCS, any ideas or suggestions either of you can provide would be very gratefully accepted.
Thanks again for all your support! I hope I wind up helping make this incredible project just a hair better :)
Pat☺

hd764jvgd843

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #66 on: May 16, 2015, 10:08:22 pm »
Thanks for the update Pat.
Could you please post your final cfg and air files when you are done, I am interested to see what kind of adjustments you have made in order to get there. Currently I am stuck with some calculations for the flap's lift and drag values I intend to apply. For the legacy Hornet, LEF and TEF combinded should theoretically produce around three times of the original lift of the plain wing. I have to set this in relation to the actual flap sizes, span outboard, and balance it between LEF and TEF.

I also noticed that due to the CG moved backwards, the plane tends to pitch upwards after the touchdown, when you release the controls and do not apply breakes immediately. Trying to fix this issue I moved CGs a few feet forward again, and noticed that the appropriate lon. "wing aerodynamic center" value in order to balance the plane, together with the CGs will always equal -29 (e.g. -34 ./. -5, or -31 ./. -2). Guess what, +29 is the reference datum position value for the model, so I assume they must remain balanced somehow, but do not really understand why, yet - maybe just coincidence.

Concerning your question, I stumbled over a similar issue, too. In some very rare incidences you can encounter visual and/or control glitches, usually after too many resets and pausing the sim. Under normal conditions it does not seem to occur. I have flown in some cases for more than 3/4 hour doing wild maneuvers and stalls and everything worked perfectly to the last second of the flight and final approach.
I found that restarting the simulator, not resetting the sim, heals it. I do not know the cause of the issue, probably some sort of overflow. Like with the pitch auto trim, when during the develpment of textures the sim is reset very often, and is paused, the pitch auto trim will get confused spinning and crashing the plane once you release the sim from pause.
Do you have just a visual glitch or does the plane also drift to the right, control glitch?

Peter
« Last Edit: May 16, 2015, 10:12:34 pm by hd764jvgd843 »

Orion

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #67 on: May 16, 2015, 10:14:36 pm »
Ok, now the problem: I've found that when I make a right turn, level, 1,000 MSL, any speed or weight, even just bank that direction without pulling to make a turn, the rudder goes right also. Normal, perfectly normal. HOWEVER, when I am wings level again, the rudders stay cocked over to the right. I can re-zero the rudders by a twitch  twist (ie: a quick twist and then relax the input back to 0 ) on the joystick, either direction. But I shouldn't have to do that. The rudders should return to 0 yaw when the bank angle does. I know there is a portion of the FCS controlling the rudders, but it seems there is a slight problem with it. I am far from an XML programmer, but I do play with them a little bit. I plan on taking a look to see twhat's going on, but since Jimi wrote the auto-rudder part of the FCS, any ideas or suggestions either of you can provide would be very gratefully accepted.

If you have the new FCS that I programmed, released with the FSX Blue Angels Hornet 15.2 version (from this March 29, 2015 post), you can adjust the RudderPID section in the aircraft.cfg file.  The value of Sideslip should contain three comma delimited numbers representing the proportional, integral, and derivative constants of the PID controller for the rudder.

The first value is a scalar for the amount of correction due to the current error (proportional).  For example, at some given instant if we have 5 degrees of sideslip and want our sideslip angle to be 0 degrees (to have coordinated turns), the current error will be the difference between the value of the sideslip and the desired value, or 5 degrees.  With the current error at 5 degrees, if the proportional value is 1, the current error is multiplied by 1 and we'll get 5% rudder input.  With the current error at 5 degrees, if the proportional value is 2, the current error is multiplied by 2 and we'll get 10% rudder input.

The second value is a scalar for the amount of correction due to the sum of all the previous errors (integral).  For example, if we consistently have 1 degree of sideslip and we want 0 degrees, each run of the PID controller loop will keep track of the error, adding it to the previous errors, so after 10 iterations we'll get a sum of 10 degrees.  With the sum of errors at 10 degrees, if the integral value is 0.5, we'll get 5% rudder input.  With the sum of errors at 10 degrees, if the integral value is 0.25, we'll get 2.5% rudder input.

The third value is a scalar for the amount of correction due to the rate of change of the error (derivative).  For example, if the previous run of the loop had a current error of 2, but the current run of the loop has a current error value of 1, by subtracting the previous error from the current error, the rate of change of the error will be -1 degree per second (assuming one second constant intervals between runs of the loop).  With the rate of change of the error at -1 degree per second, if the derivative value is 1, we'll get -1% rudder input.  With the rate of change of the error at -1 degree per second, if the derivative value is 2, we'll get -2% rudder input.

The three rudder input values from the proportional, integral, and derivative calculations are added together to create the rudder input value sent to the simulator.  This loop repeats on a per frame basis, continually performing the aforementioned calculations with new values to attempt to reach the desired value (in the case of the rudder, zero sideslip angle).  For more information take a look at Tom's post here and do some research on PID controllers and control theory.

When you bring the rudder out of the neutral position (your quick twist), the FCS disables its control over the rudder resets the sum of all the previous errors back to zero.  When the rudder returns to the neutral position the FCS resumes control based on the PID concept with the aforementioned parameters.

Anyways, long story short, try setting the second value of Sideslip under RudderPID in the aircraft.cfg to 0 and see if that helps.  You may lose some of the auto-coordination effectiveness, though, so you may want to play with the other parameters as well.

Concerning your question, I stumbled over a similar issue, too. In some very rare incidences you can encounter visual and/or control glitches, usually after too many resets and pausing the sim. Under normal conditions it does not seem to occur. I have flown in some cases for more than 3/4 hour doing wild maneuvers and stalls and everything worked perfectly to the last second of the flight and final approach.
I found that restarting the simulator, not resetting the sim, heals it. I do not know the cause of the issue, probably some sort of overflow. Like with the pitch auto trim, when during the develpment of textures the sim is reset very often, and is paused, the pitch auto trim will get confused spinning and crashing the plane once you release the sim from pause.
Do you have just a visual glitch or does the plane also drift to the right, control glitch?

While that will happen when you reload the flight or aircraft too much, I don't think that's Pat's issue.  See above.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2015, 10:21:11 pm by Orion »

PhantomTweak

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #68 on: May 17, 2015, 07:28:19 am »
WOW!! Thanks to you both for the help. Whoooo-eee! I wasn't quite expecting such a technical discussion of the PID system, Orion, but hey, I'm game to take a look and see what I can see! This will, of course, slow me down a ways while I learn this, but I was always a quick study  (at least in schools, anyway, civilian and military), so I'm hoping...

As to the frequent resets, yes, I've been doing them a lot while working the Flaps, I call it Reloading to prevent confusion. I Reload an aircraft after .air, Aicraft.cfg, or Panel.cfg file, and I Reset the Sim, or Game, only as a last resort, usually after a Crash to Desktop. SE- seems too have a lot fewer of those, at least on my system, than either FS9 or FSX seem prone to. I will remember your advice, though, Pter, and apply it to my methodology (big word for the day). By the by, I understand entirely why you commented out the Pirouette gauge, but I had a thought: could it have to do with my rudder problem? I know it does afftect the rudders etc during "the" maneuver. So I re-enabled it (uncommented it), and haven't had a problem since, but not enough tests to be sure yet. More to come on that.
I will definately take a look at Mr. Orion's PID controller too. I've read some on PID controllers, and I comprehend the basics, now I'll have to get my hands dirty, as it were, and really get hard into them. Thank you for the guidance on that, Orion. Edit: The way I read this, by the way, my "quick twist" or sudden rudder pedal input/removal, causes the FCS to reset the PID controller for side-slip. Is that ALL rudder controller PID systems, or only the Side-Slip one? I am going to presume all until further notice. If there even are more than one in existence, that is. I will study :)
I will do my best to really work on this, but I do have a small real-world life, and my lovely wife comes first and foremost, so my progress is a bit slow. I will give you a head's up when I finalize (to my satisfaction, anyway) a section, like Flaps, or the Rudder thing, gear settings in the Contact Points, whatever. Which reminds me, on MY system, and it may just be my problem alone, I noticed that my wheels were sunk in about mid-hub level deep in the runway. I have fixed that little problem by changing the vertical setting of the gear's contact points, and the Static CG Height setting. A minor detail but hey, I can fix this for sure, so I did :) No criticism or complaining meant, just a minor, teensy little detail I know how to fix, that's all.
Thanks again to you both!
Pat☺
« Last Edit: May 17, 2015, 07:58:59 pm by PhantomTweak »

PhantomTweak

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #69 on: May 17, 2015, 09:10:49 pm »
Ok, 1 last question, for now. The link you just provided is to a plane that shows up as "Prototype" in the ui_variation= field. Somewhere, and don't ask because now I can't find it, I got ahold of one labeled as "Prototype v1.55"

Which would be the latest release, please. I know it's a work in progress and not ready for release, with the PIDs yet to be perfected. No problem. I can play with them, no sweat. I wasn't though. I was working on Peter's v1.8.0 version. I can switch efforts if you prefer, but I strongly feel I am making progress, at least on the flaps and gear settings. Peter's doesn't have the PID controllers at all. Should I try to integrate them? It seems like a lot of changes to make...

Ok, ok, I'll stop before I go all the way down the rabbit hole here...
Pat☺

Orion

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #70 on: May 17, 2015, 11:55:48 pm »
Edit: The way I read this, by the way, my "quick twist" or sudden rudder pedal input/removal, causes the FCS to reset the PID controller for side-slip. Is that ALL rudder controller PID systems, or only the Side-Slip one? I am going to presume all until further notice. If there even are more than one in existence, that is. I will study :)
Only the one controlling the rudder based on sideslip angle.  There are three other PID controllers under the ElevatorPID section: AoA, PitchRate, and GForce.  I think the AoA one might not be in the currently released version, though.

Ok, 1 last question, for now. The link you just provided is to a plane that shows up as "Prototype" in the ui_variation= field. Somewhere, and don't ask because now I can't find it, I got ahold of one labeled as "Prototype v1.55"

Which would be the latest release, please. I know it's a work in progress and not ready for release, with the PIDs yet to be perfected. No problem. I can play with them, no sweat. I wasn't though. I was working on Peter's v1.8.0 version. I can switch efforts if you prefer, but I strongly feel I am making progress, at least on the flaps and gear settings. Peter's doesn't have the PID controllers at all. Should I try to integrate them? It seems like a lot of changes to make...

Ok, ok, I'll stop before I go all the way down the rabbit hole here...
Pat☺

I'm not sure what 1.55 is, but the most recently released version I know of is in the post I previously linked to.  You may need to edit the panel.cfg to remove duplicate/conflicting gauges -- remove Autoflaps and keep HornetFCS.  HornetFCS includes all the functionality for the flaps in addition to the PID controllers for the fly-by-wire.

The only changes necessary for the PID controllers are the new ElevatorPID and RudderPID sections in the aircraft.cfg file and the entry in the panel.cfg for HornetFCS.  However, the flight dynamics are adjusted in the FSXBA version to allow the PID controllers to more effectively control the aircraft.  Without the adjusted flight dynamics, the flight controls may not behave properly with the FCS gauge running.

If you want to adjust the PID controller stuff, I'd recommend using the version posted by Jimi in the previously linked post.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2015, 11:58:20 pm by Orion »

hd764jvgd843

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #71 on: May 18, 2015, 01:28:01 am »
The reasoning why I haven't switched to the latest prototype version yet, is that I wanted to properly understand MOIs, CGs, sideslip, the balancing and how it affects pitch, roll and yaw, before adding an other level of complexity in form of PIDs.
My intention was to set up a plane within the current configuration limitations that comes as close as possible, and then trying to use PIDs in order to overcome certain issues that cannot be fixed the conventional way.

The prototype version in its current state feels weird because PIDs are not properly tuned, and I am currently still struggling with the entire understanding of the conventional setup so I would not really know in what direction to tune certain PIDs and what else they might affect.

Pat, if you think it is worth a try, I can offer putting together an 1.8.1 version integrating PID functionality based on Jimi's prototype version. If you want to work with the prototype directly, that is fine by me, too. Let me know what you think.

Peter


Suggestion for an other issue: Currently we have many different loudouts, Clean/BA, A-A, GBU, etc using the same MOI and parasitic drag values, etc. One way fixing it is to create a new airplane for each loadout, but this will quickly blow required space out of proportion as the number of textures may increase.
The CS version has a gauge that changes between loadouts/models in our case, and changes certain parameters in the aircraft.cfg file.
If a similar solution could be realized via a gauge (switching between models) containing certain parameters (moi, drag, weight, etc.) for each model/loudout, we would have to make less compromises and could tailor flight performance more easily to the loudout/models.
Jimi, Orion, what do you think of it? Do you think such a gauge could be realized with a reasonable amout of work, or is such a thing out of reach?
« Last Edit: May 18, 2015, 01:56:41 am by hd764jvgd843 »

jimi08

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #72 on: May 18, 2015, 03:10:40 am »
Hey Gents,

Below I have posted the lasted on the PID bird.  Little progress, but not too much since I've been out of pocket for a while.  But I did play a little bit with it while I has in town this weekend.  Some improvements here and there but still more work needs to be done.  PIDs include AOA for landing and high AOA configurations, G for normal flight regimes, Pitch Rate for hands-off 1G, zero pitch rate trimming, and Rudder for yaw/turn coordination.

Link:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3So3WwTLPRZODVvalVtbWdLM3M/view?usp=sharing

In regards to working a solution that will allow one jet and multiple loadouts, I WISH.  Creating this capability is currently beyond my reach, and for those that do know how to do such as thing, it will require A LOT of time energy and effort since we do not have the source files for this bird.  That means having to decompile, make needed changes, and then recompile everything.  Which means having to re-animate EVERYTHING.  Something most aren't willing to do.  I agree though, that will same a lot of space and make things a lot easier if we had that.

Thanks again and good luck.

Justin "Jimi" Hendrix
FSX Blue Angels
FSXBA F/A-18C Hornet Latest Download Link: http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,6944.msg117011.html#msg1

Orion

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #73 on: May 18, 2015, 06:38:59 am »
My intention was to set up a plane within the current configuration limitations that comes as close as possible, and then trying to use PIDs in order to overcome certain issues that cannot be fixed the conventional way.
Isn't that like trying to simulate fly-by-wire flight dynamics without using a fly-by-wire flight control system?  I mean, it worked fairly well for Dino's F-35, but if we're going to have an FCS, why not use it?

Suggestion for an other issue: Currently we have many different loudouts, Clean/BA, A-A, GBU, etc using the same MOI and parasitic drag values, etc. One way fixing it is to create a new airplane for each loadout, but this will quickly blow required space out of proportion as the number of textures may increase.
The CS version has a gauge that changes between loadouts/models in our case, and changes certain parameters in the aircraft.cfg file.
If a similar solution could be realized via a gauge (switching between models) containing certain parameters (moi, drag, weight, etc.) for each model/loudout, we would have to make less compromises and could tailor flight performance more easily to the loudout/models.
Jimi, Orion, what do you think of it? Do you think such a gauge could be realized with a reasonable amout of work, or is such a thing out of reach?
You can alias or reference models, panels, sound, textures, and even AIR files.  You could simply set up multiple aircraft folders for each aircraft you want different flight characteristics for, and reference everything that doesn't need changing without duplicating anything.  This way there would be minimal overhead (the only extra space would be the additional aircraft.cfg file, essentially).

hd764jvgd843

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #74 on: May 18, 2015, 11:32:38 am »
In regards to working a solution that will allow one jet and multiple loadouts, I WISH.  Creating this capability is currently beyond my reach, and for those that do know how to do such as thing, it will require A LOT of time energy and effort since we do not have the source files for this bird.  That means having to decompile, make needed changes, and then recompile everything.  Which means having to re-animate EVERYTHING.  Something most aren't willing to do.  I agree though, that will same a lot of space and make things a lot easier if we had that.
I know that we cannot touch the model files anymore from prior discussions, but I meant something slightly different. A gauge that could switch between the model files we currently have (changing the relative path and pointing to a different model), and as it does overwriting a few specified parameters (like: MOIs*, drag, etc.) in the aircraft.cfg. Like referencing/aliasing models, panels via a gauge. I know that it can be done, because the CS version uses it, although not for all parameters we need.
If someone could be interested in writing a sample gauge as a template that could switch between two models and changes a single demo parameter in the aircraft.cfg (like CS does for the parasite drag, stations and fuel) I could probably work my way from there adding all needed parameters and model paths we would need. The solution I have in mind would not require a separate GUI: Trigger the gauge via a key combination (like Shift+8 for the data gauge) and select from there via pressing e.g. 1,2,3,4... from a predefined list of available models the desired one, and when done trigger a reload of the aircraft to effectively switch via the changed references/paths in aircraft.cfg.
My problem is that I have no experience programming a gauge from scratch, and I admit that this is way out of my league, but I am good at tweaking things and working my way from there once I got a template to work with.
This is just a suggestion in order to get one step further with the New FSXBA Hornet towards more specific and realistic flight characteristics for each model we currently have.
Simply referencing/aliasing different models (as Orion suggested) could be a viable approach - even one I could realize. I cannot say why but I do not like the idea, yet, to create an aircraft folder for each model file, although textures could be referenced for all C/D versions separately, not to blow up required space. Currently I consider a gauge to switch between models being the more elegant solution, probably because it is out of my reach - like the grass is always greener on the other side of the river. If you think from your point of view that I am barking up the wrong tree here, please tell me so - awaiting your opinions on the subject.


My intention was to set up a plane within the current configuration limitations that comes as close as possible, and then trying to use PIDs in order to overcome certain issues that cannot be fixed the conventional way.
Isn't that like trying to simulate fly-by-wire flight dynamics without using a fly-by-wire flight control system?  I mean, it worked fairly well for Dino's F-35, but if we're going to have an FCS, why not use it?
What I meant was getting the underlying physics right before introducing PIDs. To put it into a drastic picture: Not trying to tweak a Chessna via PIDs to fly like a Hornet. Sorry for not expressing myself right, but as I am not a native speaker, I have sometimes difficulties communicating what I mean.
Wait, I can't blame the lack of my linguistic proficiency here - its probably just me. ;)

Best regards, Peter

P.S. Another thing I forgot to mention, that I am currently working at, is that when additional weight is added (loadout, fuel) the sensitivity to pitch, meaning the max AOAs one is being able to pull during a turn, given the same speed, tends to increase with additional weight. Example: clean loadout, max internal fuel, resulting in this case at a max 27deg. AOA during a turn. At maximum loadout it is possible to easily pull more than 40deg AOA, putting the airplane into stall, with the same CGs.
This can be offset to some degree by moving the CGs for fuel and loadout more to the front than they should be, but I am still struggling balancing the aircraft and trying to offset the effect completely.

* Update: As I just found out reading Yves Guillaume's "Flight Dynamics in MS Flight Simulator" (p.15-16) additional payload (stations) and fuel weight are considered in the MOI calculations the sim does, although not being completely correct, as he points out. So, in general for our purposes one set of MOIs for all models (from Clean/BA to fully loaded) should theoretically suffice. This only leaves different payloads (stations) and parasite drag values for each model to be adjusted individually.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2015, 04:56:10 pm by hd764jvgd843 »