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GSX+P3DV4+QW787 Refueling Issue

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virtuali:

--- Quote from: mseder on February 01, 2022, 03:52:38 pm ---
"And OF COURSE it is, right in your screenshot!!"

What? You told me that the exact words are:
"Show the FSX Fuel and Cargo page" but the truth, which is proved by my image says
"Show FSX "Fuel and cargo dialog" during refueling".
You do see the difference but pretend something else right! I guess you feel embarrassed
--- End quote ---

And you call THAT a "difference" ?

It's the SAME, what difference does it make how that label is called ? What matters is the option IS there, and what it does. I might used the older name just because I copied it from the GSX manual, but the actual wording have been updated but, it should have been obvious we are discussing about THAT option, regardless how the exact wording is.


--- Quote ---"Of course it is." Of course it is!! But in the previous post you speculated perhaps/maybe that was the case and now when I present the facts it turned out as "Of course it is", come on Umberto.
--- End quote ---

I really don't know what you are trying to say here with that "come on". I couldn't possibly know what exact files QW might have included or not in their product so, at first, I was obviously correct saying they MIGHT have done that IF you saw the GSX fuel page appearing.

Now that YOU confirmed you found a GSX.CFG file with that option enabled, I also correctly said "of course it is", to point out the reason of that behaviour was entirely expected, considering that file exists.


--- Quote ---Your suggestion "as it should" is to turn off custom refueling for the 787 by ticking off that in the plane's configuration having GSX do nothing other than to ask the user to use the planes refueling system. That's not a solution, it's an escape Umberto.
--- End quote ---

It's not an "escape" or a "bug", it's the proper solution that works for every 3rd party airplane that has a way (or different ways ) to load fuel by itself which are not through the default sim Fuel panel.


--- Quote ---Now, the manual states on page 18:
"GSX can handle both cases" and it's referring to 3rd party Custom fuel systems 1 With a progressive fueling and 2 With NO progressive refueling. Also in the GSX settings panel this can be combined with enabling the "Always Refuel Progressively".
--- End quote ---
]

You are now confusing the progressive/non-progressive refueling ( which are subsets of the "GSX NOT refueling " case ), with the main "GSX is not refueling" option, which makes that option irrelevant if GSX refuels the plane.


--- Quote ---The bug that you explain as "the plane's own loader would likely conflict with GSX doing the refueling". or as you put it "WHEN THE AIRPLANE REFUEL ITSELF". But...there is no loading of fuel happening in the 787! You can load the aircraft's fuel by instantly load it in the EFB, nothing else (Already mentioned by "Fragtality"). There is no basis for a conflict other than GSX itself!!
--- End quote ---

This confirms you confuse the progressive loading of fuel, with the fact the airplane it's refueling itself. At least, we meant two different things.

When I say "The airplane is refueling itself", I mean EVERY possible way of loading fuel in the airplane EXCEPT GSX OR the default Fuel page of the sim.

It doesn't matter if the plane loads progressively, if it has a custom fuel panel, a loader, an FMC option, or you use a 3rd party utility, or you have a "Load instant" option in the airplane.

Those are ALL cases of "the Airplane refueling itself" and that's why it's best to Disable the option to use GSX refueling in all these cases, not because GSX might not able to refuel that airplane ( it might, if it uses standard fuel tanks, but some airplanes don't ), but because it might disrupt other workflows you might prefer to use for that airplane so, GSX would JUST play its animations, not trying to interfere with an refueling external system.

Another very good reason why it's best to Disable GSX refueling with complex 3rd party airplanes is that, when GSX is refueling the airplane, it will follow its own strategy of progressively filling the various fuel tanks so, at the end of the refueling, you might end up with the correct overall total quantity you requested, but the DISTRIBUTION of fuel in all the multiple fuel tanks might not always be the correct one for THAT particular airplane, because of so many issues with W&B we don't even want to enter into, that are very specific to each plane, and that's why it's best to use the airplane own's systems, that are likely tailored for that airplane, and use GSX for the visual effect only.



--- Quote ---Below everyone can find my recommendations for QW787 refueling with GSX 2

1 In the plane config
Enable "Fuel and cargo dialog" during refueling"
--- End quote ---

If the plane has a custom refuel system, the option should be DISABLED, which is how GSX is set to by default, for this airplane, in the configuration WE supply GSX with.


--- Quote ---Enable "Always refuel progressively"
--- End quote ---

This won't make any difference if GSX is refueling the airplane because...GSX is refueling the airplane so, clearly, it's doing it progressively!

Enabling this option is ONLY useful when GSX is NOT refueling either the airplane doesn't have a progressive refueling, so it always refuel instantly, or it has both methods ( progressive or instant ), but you want the GSX truck to stay there AS IF the plane was refueling progressively.


--- Quote ---Disable "Detect custom aircraft system refueling"
--- End quote ---

If you had this enabled, THIS is likely caused all your issues.

This option should only be used in very rare situations, like planes that do refueling AS PART of an overall "turnaround simulation" and what it does, is to automatically call a Fuel truck in case GSX detects the airplane fuel quantity starts to raise, the only reason to exists is in these cases, since it's not very clear exactly WHEN the airplane will start refueling, it would be a problem when combined with the normal workflow of GSX ( when is NOT refueling the airplane!! ) would just ASK you "Please use the airplane fuel system", because that might already happened, since it was part of an automatic timed routine started by the airplane.

Fragtality:
@umberto:
It doesn't make sense to disable the "..show Dialog..." Option (based on what is visible and documented to us users from both parties). If disabled (and "...detect custom..." enabled in the global config) nothing happens - the truck arrives and stays there forever. It may or may not make the "refuel sound" (depending on when I "instant-load" via the QW's EFB).
Which is all more or less "working as expected": GSX is configured to not do the actual refuel and QW just does not have or do anything custom with refueling (that I would be aware of) - it only can do a "instant load" via its EFB. It's the bog-standard fuel-definitions in the aircraft.cfg for Main Left, Right, Center Tank. So the correct Setting (imho) is to leave that "..show Dialog..." option enabled in the Aircraft Customization Dialog!

And, might just have found a bug: when the aircraft is customized (so that there is a user-customization file created in the appdata folder) - for example when disabling the "...show dialog..." Option - the "Indication Light Test Switch" is permanently on when the 787 is loaded (with coldanddark as default panel state). Saw in the QW Forum that this Bug should have been fixed? The Problem even persists when the user-customization file is deleted again.


@mseder:
Might sound a bit harsh: maybe concentrate on the original issue you had? Discussing the wording of an option doesn't get anyone further. Your original issue was that the Truck stopped after 79000 lbs, if I'm right?
If just tested it myself, I requested 100% in the Dialog and got a completely filled plane (with one Truck-Trip, since it was on a Gate with Underground Fuel). Be aware that QW uses a different Quantity-to-Weight Ratio than FS (and therefor GSX?)! Example: the 5570 gallons configured for a wing tank in the aircraft.cfg translate in FS/the Dialog to to ~37314lbs. But for the EFB this translates to ~38433lbs. So 100% in the Dialog is not the same amount as 100% in the EFB (and therefore also could lead to getting not the amount requested when defined as weight)! I had fixed that myself in the aircraft.cfg, which I did the test with. But despite these conversion-difference, it should not stop at 79000lbs - let's concentrate on that! Ever tried it with Gate/Parking with Underground Fuel?
Else I don't see any other way for you to get that sorted out, since ignoring the fuel truck & instant-load via EFB or trying a "community solution" are both somehow not an option.

virtuali:

--- Quote ---So the correct Setting (imho) is to leave that "..show Dialog..." option enabled in the Aircraft Customization Dialog!
--- End quote ---

So the whole argument is moot since, as we discovered, QW is providing with a GSX.CFG that enables it. We tend to always disable it for complex 3rd party airplanes, because we ARE NOT SURE what ELSE their fuel system might do so, it's just a safety precaution to have it disabled in the internal GSX configuration.

If QW set it to enable it, that's fine too, they know the airplane and probably don't mind GSX might distribute the fuel in its own way, which might be or not correct for a 787, I really don't know, GSX always use the same distribution, regardless of the airplane type.



--- Quote ---And, might just have found a bug: when the aircraft is customized (so that there is a user-customization file created in the appdata folder) - for example when disabling the "...show dialog..." Option - the "Indication Light Test Switch" is permanently on when the 787 is loaded (with coldanddark as default panel state). Saw in the QW Forum that this Bug should have been fixed?
--- End quote ---

The mere presence of an user customization cannot possibly affect the airplane state ( with the obvious exception of GSX refueling or not ), the only possible reason of issues between what are usually internal L: variables in the airplane, is an user customization that changed the XML expression that use custom L: variables for the doors to other variables.


--- Quote --- The Problem even persists when the user-customization file is deleted again.
--- End quote ---

Even after restarting the sim ?

Fragtality:

--- Quote ---The mere presence of an user customization cannot possibly affect the airplane state ( with the obvious exception of GSX refueling or not ), the only possible reason of issues between what are usually internal L: variables in the airplane, is an user customization that changed the XML expression that use custom L: variables for the doors to other variables.
--- End quote ---
Written from the QW Vice President back in 2021:
"We have reached out to FSDT and they confirmed that it was indeed caused by GSX and has already been fixed as soon as it got reported to them.
Please make sure you have the very latest GSX version in case you're still experiencing the issue."
So it is an effect which could relate to GSX ;) I'm puzzled too how that can be, but it is ^^ Just disabled the "...show Dialog..." Option (because I indeed have a custom fuel system for the QW) and didn't change anything else. On the Variant which I not customized yet, it does not happen.


--- Quote ---Even after restarting the sim ?
--- End quote ---
Sure! Closed P3D, deleted the File/whole Folder for the Variant in AppData, Opened P3D again.
Thats my todays use of Prepar3D - closing and opening it continiously ;D

virtuali:

--- Quote from: Fragtality on February 01, 2022, 08:42:56 pm ---Written from the QW Vice President back in 2021:
"We have reached out to FSDT and they confirmed that it was indeed caused by GSX and has already been fixed as soon as it got reported to them.
Please make sure you have the very latest GSX version in case you're still experiencing the issue." So it is an effect which could relate to GSX
--- End quote ---

Now I understand what it was.

And no, it wasn't really caused by GSX itself, it was an update to the Addon Manager that in previous versions discarded L: variables with an index of 0, which is in fact a valid index, so we released an update the considered 0 to be usable but, it caused a side effect that, depending on TIMING where the various applications AND the airplane, all using L: variables started, could result in the Addon Manager considering the index 0 to be usable, before the airplane, which could otherwise use it for itself, finished loading.

And yes, this has been fixed months ago, couple of days after it was reported so, the only possible reason it's still happening to you, is that you still have that outdated version for some reason ( antivirus can possibly cause this, since the Addon Manager it's a .DLL, so it CAN mistakenly blocked by the antivirus ).

And no, it's not that I'm just saying "it's fixed".

I tested it now, and made a video to show nothing you do in the GSX airplane customization page will ever affect the Light Test Switch, which always behave correctly, that is working normally when there is power, and not doing anything in Cold & Dark.

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