Author Topic: FPS  (Read 48066 times)

virtuali

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Re: FPS
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2013, 09:24:43 pm »
I understand that you are trying to be helpful but there are a large handful of users on other forums complaining of these performance issues.

Because they don't know how to properly test. And they expect system resources are infinite. There's also a "large handful" of users that are not reporting ANY problems with fps. How do explain this, instead ?

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You seem to be dodging the questions by blaming the FPS problems on other products, sliders, hardware, Anti Alaising, FSX.CFG config, etc. I really wish you would address the performance issues rather than delivering a product that is so demanding on hardware resources.

I'm not, and I'm not blaming ANYTHING. I'm showing you how to proceed by exclusion, and find the exact contribution each of your addons to your fps. AFTER you assess that, you can then make up your mind.

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However, with the release of YVR, I decided to download the trial and test it out before making a final decision due to previous FPS issues at KLAX.

So, fact that this is selling better than KLAX, is probably proving either one of both of these facts:

1) KLAX didn't had any fps problems for most users, so they are purchasing CYVR without trying it first. Chances are that if KLAX worked well for those users, CYVR should be similar. Those that had problems with KLAX, like you, might have issues with CYVR. This alone should be proof enough the problem is the different system config and other installed addons, since the scenery used it's a constant here.

OR

2) KLAX had problems, so people are cautions and are testing CYVR. Despite of that, CYVR is selling very well, and better than KLAX (this took us by surprise, since we assumed KLAX is more popular than CYVR as an airport, and CYVR it's FSX only while KLAX was FSX+FS9, so we assumed slower sales), if this is the case, it can only mean CYVR WORKS WELL for most users, otherwise they wouldn't buy it.

Either one is true, but in both cases, the sceneries apparently work well for most people, while it seems you had problem with both.

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I remember my FPS problems at KLAX after purchasing and I was hoping that FSDT would have made a better effort to optimize this newer scenery for framerates.

There's nothing in FSX so much optimized with fps.

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I know that you continually back up your statements by saying "We use shaders", "pure FSX code", "offloading work to GPU" etc.

They are an undeniable fact.

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I have just felt the urge to confront you about this on behalf of many other users and I truly am concerned that you are overlooking some of the underlying problems. 

The problem might have something to do with the fact that, if there's something ELSE running with non-optimized graphic code TOGETHER, it seems to kill of the advantadges of using the GPU a lot. But we should find what it is.

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A simple config manager or performance manager would suffice to improve performance and would likely attract many buyers that are in pursuit of a balanced FPS airport.

A config manager would imply there's something in CYVR that is losing fps. But there isn't, what you might need, would be an entirely remade version, in much less detail, not using shaders, that MIGHT not be slowed down by other legacy code you have somewhere in the system.

About dodging questions, you still haven't replied to my question:

what's your frame rate with:

A default airplane, in 2D panel view, without the 2D panel, and with the fps set to Unlimited ?

aceridgey

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Re: FPS
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2013, 09:38:18 pm »
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A config manager would imply there's something in CYVR that is losing fps. But there isn't, what you might need, would be an entirely remade version, in much less detail, not using shaders, that MIGHT not be slowed down by other legacy code you have somewhere in the system.



You're joking right?

virtuali

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Re: FPS
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2013, 09:41:10 pm »
You're joking right?

Obviously not, FSX takes different code paths, depending if some features are called or not, like for example the backward compatibility with legacy FS8/9 code. If nothing in an area needs that, FSX skips entirely parts of its rendering code, and it's much faster.

Again, you still haven't replied to my question:

what's your frame rate with:

A default airplane, in 2D panel view, without the 2D panel, and with the fps set to Unlimited ?

aceridgey

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Re: FPS
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2013, 09:43:23 pm »

I am not going to unlock my FPS as that brings stutter to the simulator. External views are 30locked and with the monitor vsync that achieves the otimum performance.

What you have describes will NOT solve the issue where the performance is effected by direction.

Please consult the screenshots I presented with you on the previous page :)

Cheers

virtuali

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Re: FPS
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2013, 09:51:39 pm »
I am not going to unlock my FPS as that brings stutter to the simulator.

I've thought to have explained already:

I'm NOT saying to change your USAGE configuration. I say this when I've said to turn off AI, just for TESTING. We are STILL TESTING, so I'm not saying that will be your configuration for the future (although in case of the locked frame rate, Unlimited is better), I'm just asking what the fps is under the same situation as mine!!!

If you really don't want to unlock the fps, can you AT LEAST tell how's the frame rate with:

A default airplane, in 2D panel view, without the 2D panel, and with the fps locked to 30.0 ?

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External views are 30locked and with the monitor vsync that achieves the otimum performance.

That's wrong. Maximum performance and best visual quality without tearing is not obtained this way, but setting FSX to unlimited, and limiting the vsync externally, either with the driver or with a specific limiter.

What you have describes will NOT solve the issue where the performance is effected by direction.

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Please consult the screenshots I presented with you on the previous page :)

Explain my fps. The system is similar, the scenery is the same. Everything else is different. It's fairly obvious the problem must be one of those "everything else"
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 09:53:17 pm by virtuali »

benorg

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Re: FPS
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2013, 09:56:32 pm »
I understand that you are trying to be helpful but there are a large handful of users on other forums complaining of these performance issues.
A default airplane, in 2D panel view, without the 2D panel, and with the fps set to Unlimited ?

Is this a joke....?

I built a $1500 computer to fly DEFAULT planes in 2D with stutters galore on unlimited? No Umberto, I didn't. I built this machine with very high fidelity components and you are implying I should enjoy this scenery with nearly default FSX? I am not sure what you think a hardcore simmer is but we typically fly with NGX+REX+GSX+FSDT+ORBX+others.

I know I sound like a total troll but I am just frustrated that this wonderful product is performing so horridly on my system. I really wanted to buy this one but if I can't resolve the FPS it's a no-go. Also, why is it that I have almost no issues with other airports with my current config and settings? Can't you see why we are so skeptical? You won't tell us what could be causing the issue!!

« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 09:58:21 pm by benorg »

virtuali

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Re: FPS
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2013, 10:00:12 pm »
Is this a joke....?

I built a $1500 computer to fly DEFAULT planes in 2D with stutters galore on unlimited?

It's me that I'm not expressing clearly enough ? It must be...

As I've said, to the other user.

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I'm NOT saying to change your USAGE configuration. I say this when I've said to turn off AI, just for TESTING. We are STILL TESTING, so I'm not saying that will be your configuration for the future (although in case of the locked frame rate, Unlimited is better), I'm just asking what the fps is under the same situation as mine!!!

Please, I really want to know: is this not clear enough ? We are not saying to change your usage config. We are making A TEST. If only to understand why only some users are having issue with fps, and some are perfectly happy with it.

virtuali

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Re: FPS
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2013, 10:01:28 pm »
Is this a joke....?

I built a $1500 computer to fly DEFAULT planes in 2D with stutters galore on unlimited?

It's me that I'm not expressing clearly enough ? It must be... And besides, best way to reduce stutters IS Unlimited fps in FSX, with an external limiter. But that's not the point, if you prefer locked, that's fine.

As I've said, to the other user:

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I'm NOT saying to change your USAGE configuration. I say this when I've said to turn off AI, just for TESTING. We are STILL TESTING, so I'm not saying that will be your configuration for the future (although in case of the locked frame rate, Unlimited is better), I'm just asking what the fps is under the same situation as mine!!!

Please, I really want to know: is this not clear enough ? We are not saying to change your usage config. We are making A TEST. If only to understand why only some users are having issue with fps, and some are perfectly happy with it.

aceridgey

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Re: FPS
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2013, 10:04:23 pm »
To be fair Umburto, you are not making it clear that you want us to test, you are saying that our system is at fault and your scenery is perfect..

I think you're the only major scenery developer that doesn't offer a configuration manager.


benorg

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Re: FPS
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2013, 10:09:48 pm »
Darn disappointing that you've essentially lost a customer.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 10:17:11 pm by virtuali »

virtuali

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Re: FPS
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2013, 10:14:01 pm »
you are saying that our system is at fault and your scenery is perfect..

No, I'm not saying this, and I can't find anything in what I've wrote that could be misunderstood with this. Searching for any possible cause, doesn't imply your system is "at fault".

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I think you're the only major scenery developer that doesn't offer a configuration manager.

Configuration managers are only offered because the developers KNOW that some things, that some users might like, WILL kill the fps in their scenery.

Or because they can't do some things in real-time, like seasonal settings external switchers (we don't need them, because we switch in real time), switcher for low-res textures (we don't need them, because we know of turn on/off HD textures directly in-memory), static airplanes (which we hate). Or configuration choices between custom ground with old FS8 polygons and default-looking native FSX code, that we don't need because we do custom ground without resorting to FS8 polygons. Or switches for detail small objects, because they can't properly control visual range (the FSX SDK doesn't allow this), while we can turn off/on thing as we please with the Addon Manager, etc. etc.

So, again, the lack of a configuration manager, only means there's nothing to "remove" in the scenery that will magically raise performances.

benorg

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Re: FPS
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2013, 10:17:07 pm »

I have to say that I am really let down by this whole ordeal. I was sure you were going to help us.

virtuali

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Re: FPS
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2013, 10:17:20 pm »
Darn disappointing that you've essentially lost a customer.

I understand you even less now. After having made even more clear ONE MORE TIME, that this thread is about TRYING to understand what's might be your problems, so anything about configuration changes is made for THIS TEST'S SAKE ONLY, you reply like this ?

Care to explain, exactly, why. And what, exactly, is not clear about the above explanation about testing and what does it mean ?

Are not even CURIOUS to know why the scenery works fine for many people and doesn't on your system ?

virtuali

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Re: FPS
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2013, 10:18:30 pm »
I have to say that I am really let down by this whole ordeal. I was sure you were going to help us.

Your replies seems to go in the exact opposite direction of what I'm obviously doing: I'm HELPING you UNDERSTAND this. It seems as if I say "white", and you understand "black", really...

virtuali

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Re: FPS
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2013, 10:31:41 pm »
To add to the last post, the point of these TESTS, is not to "prove" the scenery is flawless if used alone, so we can forget about it. Far from it.

The point is to find out what is the source of your problems, which might help finding a solution which is good for your system and/or your other installed add-ons.