No navigation...no communication...no visibility

[vandy12]

If you are in a jet and everything goes down, navigation, communication, and you are in zero or near zero visibility conditions, how
do you get the plane down?

[Tony360]

In real life, you'd probably punch out, especially if you were a long way from an airfield.

I'm sure you wouldn't punch out straight away as soon as the failures occur, but if you became totally disoriented and had no idea where you were, and restarting the systems failed, it'd be the only option available.

Having said that, I might be wrong - what if you accidentally punched out over a residential area? Normally if you're lost you can simply contact the local radar, but if all comms are down...

[neutrino]

I would fly the aircraft at the most economical speed until I am out of fuel. That can keep me in the air for some time and increase the probability of getting into an area of better visibility, where I can attempt to land. This is assuming that I can at least maintain a level flight, i.e. my attitude indicator is still working.

[Paco]

   1. Aviate, navigate, communicate.


   Aviate: find VMC weather, get on someone's wing, get on the standbye gyro.

   Navigate: You're hosed if you can't get VMC or get on someone's wing.

   Communicate: the PRC-90 and subsequent models found in a pilots survival vest can be hooked up to a pilot's helmet.  This will give him the ability to talk/recieve on Guard and 282.20.  This will enable a talk down PAR.  Before you laugh.....I've done this.  When I was an IP in T-34C's I had a radio failure.  I was able to hook up my PRC-90 radio and talk to the tower, get pattern entry and landing clearance to recover at NAS Corpus Christi.  Although I was VMC at the time, no big deal.  IMC would have been interesting.

Paco

[jimi08]

As part of my military training, we always had to have a secondary and even a tertiary airfield with favorable conditions should the weather not be favorable at the primary field.  Even if you lose your comms and nav equipment, you will always have your standby instruments such as your airspeed, altitude, and at least your whiskey compass.  Also a watch or clock.  Using your known heading & distance of your alternate air fields along with dead reckoning training using the airspeed, clock and whiskey compass, you should be able to get yourself out of this predicament, once you find a suitable landing field via VMC, proceed with lost comms procedures and get your butt on the deck.  If you run out of fuel in this case, then yeah, you are SOL and you should punch out when necessary.

[Sludge]

Paco...

Classic response.  I remember that well.  I think ANYBODY that went thru the flight training with the TURBO-TORMENTOR knows what can and usually WILL go wrong at some point.  But on your point, I cant imagine trying to do that IMC on a PRC-90, and with the kinds of winds/gusts that Corpus is known for?  2nd only to Chicago as far as windy cities.  One word comes to mind:  OUCH.

One thing tho Vandy, in response to your original question, using similar EPs (emergency procedures) and the updated AN/PRC-112 (similar to PRC-90 but with GPS and secure features) would be the last ditch effort to get a Hornet or other tactical jet down without having to punch.

Good question, no doubt.
Later
Sludge

[SpazSinbad]

Not boasting here but trying to explain just how difficult it may be (depending on what is wrong with primary flight instruments of Hornet and what is available for emergency use etc.) 40 years ago in a Vampire Dual / side by side Jet Trainer from the end of WWII era (when instruments were scavenged from prop aircraft - thus mostly being unsuitable for jets as was discovered) having an electrical failure was a real nightmare. If I remember correctly a battery could allow the ADF (Radio Beacon Direction Finder) to function but probably not the radio. Then the pressure instruments IAS, Altimeter and Rate of Descent with the 'skid' indicator were all that was left! Shock Horror - we were expected to fly (with an instructor) in this 'limited panel' configuration for training purposes. No one would have expected us to do this solo as students or even back at NAS Nowra where were flew NAVY Vampires solo (often in cloud/rain etc.).

Attempting to explain briefly (is difficult) about technique to fly to the ADF beacon [forward or reverse?] (at NAS Nowra for example) to then do a limited panel let down from 20,000 feet to get under the cloud base (1,000 feet) safely near the airfield. Already it is unlikely that in poor weather the cloud base is only at 1,000 feet but one could be lucky. The most difficult part is to fly accurately (safely) using only pressure instruments. What a nightmare. It is like having brain surgery and dentistry without pain killers at the same time whilst rubbing one's stomach and patting one's head. Bloody hell. It was 'fun' to practice (dual) but no one seriously expected anyone to do an actual limited panel let down with limited fuel etc. in a real situation. One might try but just getting overhead the beacon (knowing where to point the nose because if not 'situationally aware' it might be on your tail) was a chore.

A jet knows how to go downhill - accelerating fast - given the slightest chance. Pressure instruments don't really give a 'real time' indication - there is lag. Anticipation of lag does not always work and then there is the potential for extreme pilot disorientation. We were expected to be able to recover from 'extreme attitudes' on limited panel. WHOAH again. Yeah right. :-) One could try but 'passing 10,000 feet out of control - EJECT!' is a good mantra. :-)

[EDIT} What was realistic though was to be in this emergency situation to then have to get down below overcast cloud base of ten thousand feet for example near the airfield then perhaps this 'limited panel' was useful. Then one has a chance to recover from the unusual attitude under the ten thousand foot cloud base (recovering). Otherwise it needs to be remembered that most often 'bad weather' is bumpy. Thus reading the pressure instruments is folly. In smooth air or nonconvective cloud one has a chance but in a bumpy cloud or near a thunderstorm - forget it.  

The two pics show the very large instruments often with three needles for high accuracy. Not required in a jet though. These 'prop' instruments showed too much information and moved too fast to often be useful and in the case of altimeter were often misinterpreted with sad results. The smallest needle showed 'ten thousand' so if this was actually at zero but mistaken for one then - boom - a big hole in the ground. A small PDF explains this issue with illustrations: http://www.filefront.com/9155877/Vampire3needleAltimeterIss.pdf/ (2.35Mb PDF)

[tifosi77]

If you are in a jet and everything goes down, navigation, communication, and you are in zero or near zero visibility conditions, how
do you get the plane down?

In that situation, the pilot doesn't have to do anything to get the plane down.  Gravity will take care of it.