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Author Topic: "Acropolis"-effect at KLAS  (Read 43881 times)
AaronMyers
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« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2009, 01:27:34 AM »

I understand there are limitations in FS9, no argument there. However it's the sim that many like me choose for airline flying as FSX may be a lot of things, but high performance it is not. This will always keep a population of people from using it and as such will contain the people buying the scenery specifically because it's made available in an FS9 version. Might that warrant a little extra effort to include mesh for the area, or any other potential workaround for FS9 limitations, that is obviously the call you get to make. Worth asking at least.

At any rate, I've made my purchase and if the worst part is there a cliff at the threshold I can live with that. The modeling seems to be excellent, the textures are very good as usual, and performance is very nice in FS9. It's great work.
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opulse
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« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2009, 03:12:33 AM »

Umberto,

I have noticed on my own and others screen shots of the FS9 version that there is default ground texture clipping through the airport ground texture at the ends of runways 25 L/R.

Is this happening on your version of the FS9 scenery? If so, can it be fixed?



« Last Edit: April 19, 2009, 03:15:32 AM by opulse » Logged
Dillon
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« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2009, 07:41:27 AM »

Just thought I'd let you guys know that I've seen the 'Acropolis' effect with various versions of KLAS.  What worked for me is doing away with third party mesh for the area and going with the default mesh for the area.  KLAS looks great with default mesh for this location and well worth the trade off for such a nice scenery effort as this...
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Bert Groner
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« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2009, 11:00:11 AM »

Hello Dillon!

Good idea - do you know by chance the relevant files lets say for FS GLOBAL 2008 X to be deactivated?

@ Andydigitial: Thanks a lot for your enlightning comment. Much appreciated.

@ Umberto: What about to extend the "plattform" wide into the vincinity? This would work or better to say "hide" the effect as suggested before...

Thanks!

Bert
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Bert Groner
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« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2009, 12:15:15 PM »

Hello folks!

I coulnd't resist and just had a look into the problem with LWMViewer and found four files from FS GLOBAL 2008 X which are active at and in the vincinity of the airport:

X\FSG2008\NAM\Scenery\DA016018.bgl
                                   DA017019.bgl
                                   DC017019.bgl
                                   DE017019.bgl

"X" ist the drive of your FS-GLOBAL-2008-X-installation.

While testing the file

DE017019.bgl

shows up as beeing the reason of the mentioned "Acropolis"-effect. Merging this out e.g. by changing the file-extention from .BGL to .ORG it looks like this:



Not perfect though but "visibly sustainable". What do you think?

Best for now - enjoy KLAS: Viva Las Vegas!

Bert

P.S. Don't know how this comes along with third-party-meshes provided by FS Genesis or other sources for I don't own or use 'em... Sorry.
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virtuali
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« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2009, 12:58:35 PM »

@ Umberto: What about to extend the "plattform" wide into the vincinity? This would work or better to say "hide" the effect as suggested before...

It would just make the problem worse farther away from the airport, because the terrain is constantly sloping and, by increasing the flattening area, you just create a bigger problem elsewhere.
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Lindbergh72
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« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2009, 01:07:10 PM »

@ Umberto: What about to extend the "plattform" wide into the vincinity? This would work or better to say "hide" the effect as suggested before...

It would just make the problem worse farther away from the airport, because the terrain is constantly sloping and, by increasing the flattening area, you just create a bigger problem elsewhere.

What else will it change in NAM (US)? Did you test that or what?
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VA. Captain Frank Rose
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virtuali
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« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2009, 01:14:00 PM »

Might that warrant a little extra effort to include mesh for the area, or any other potential workaround for FS9 limitations, that is obviously the call you get to make. Worth asking at least.

The issue is, you are assuming is a little effort but, as I've explained already, and as being confirmed by Anydigital (that did the local flatten fix for CH Pro in FSX) making a mesh fix for 3rd party meshes in FS9 that would surely fix any problem, it's not very pratical because:

- FS9 doesn't allow small local meshes with arbitrary shapes, they need to fully cover at least a LOD quadrant. THAT'S why, for example, a Grand Canyon mesh might affect KLAS airport

- Because of this, and because of the fact that FS9 will NOT just load the topmost mesh on the Scenery Library, but will ALWAYS load the highest-resolution mesh regardless of its position in the Scenery Library, we would need to start a "Mesh war". Meaning: in order to be sure to overwrite ANY 3rd parth mesh that might be around, we should create it at the highest LOD level possible (regardless of the fact if that resolution is real or faked) JUST to "win" the mesh war and be sure to be on top of everything else, because just being on top of the Scenery Library would not be enough.

I really think this is not something we are supposed to do: if WE were in the business of selling mesh products, it would have been  reasonable to pretend, as customers, to implement a similar processing to our meshes, compared to the one Microsoft has done for the default ones, that makes a lot of sense, because it would prevent any problem with any airport that, in the FS world, will always be entirely flat across the whole perimeter, because this is what the FS engine requires. A 3rd parth mesh that doesn't take into account this issue, it's not a complete product, IMHO...
« Last Edit: April 19, 2009, 01:22:29 PM by virtuali » Logged

Bert Groner
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« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2009, 01:18:50 PM »

@ Umberto - roger - understand that.

@ Frank: I've slewed around a lot in the whole region not seeing any negative elevation-effect on the ground or incorrect elevations e.g. on surrounding airports.

And as a positive side-effect the Pyramide hotel ans casino with the front-located Sphinx on the (extended) Strip of Las Vegas are not hovering anymore in the air - caused by the mesh as well. They are back to ground as well.

Best!

Bert
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virtuali
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« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2009, 01:21:09 PM »

What else will it change in NAM (US)? Did you test that or what?

I'm not sure what you are saying...

I only said that, since the terrain is sloping down towards the side of the runway that shows the elevated plateau, if we just increased the flattened area to move the threshold farther from the runway in that direction, it will just create an higher plateau *there*, not in "any" random part of the US.

To be more clear: at a certain point the flattened airport area WILL end, and the bigger this area is, the more you wil see the difference compared to the surrounding terrain on that place so, just increasing the area is not a solution. The only correct solution is, as I've said already, to FIX THE MESH, by doing something like Microsoft did for the default meshes: smoothing out the transitions around all the airport, and this is done at the mesh level, which is the only sensible thing to do.

Or, just not use a 3rd party mesh, at least in the airport area, as other post suggested, in case of FS Global, it might be enough to disable a file.
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Cereal Eater
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« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2009, 01:30:11 PM »

I will work on an adjustment to the problem and release it here if I can come up with anything worthwhile.

Another parallel issue is the Vegas 2004 scenery for The Strip. It has a large flatten area in it which creates the same effect on the eastern side of The Strip and downtown. I'm thinking that maybe I can create a "step ladder' flatten scenery which would extend a flatten out beyond the low-level approach vicinity of KLAS and then gradually decline the elevation further out in a series of "steps", so as not to appear so conspicuous.

There is an outcropping, or mesa/bluff, east of KLAS about 1 mile or so. Perhaps I can come up with a way to sort of hide the flatten "ledge" within the bluff face. We'll see...

« Last Edit: April 19, 2009, 02:55:58 PM by 108 » Logged
AaronMyers
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Posts: 137


« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2009, 03:50:58 PM »

Hello folks!

I coulnd't resist and just had a look into the problem with LWMViewer and found four files from FS GLOBAL 2008 X which are active at and in the vincinity of the airport:

X\FSG2008\NAM\Scenery\DA016018.bgl
                                   DA017019.bgl
                                   DC017019.bgl
                                   DE017019.bgl

"X" ist the drive of your FS-GLOBAL-2008-X-installation.

While testing the file

DE017019.bgl

Tried disabling that file here and I noticed no change.
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Captain2000
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« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2009, 04:06:27 PM »

In FS9, did some playing around with some of the FS Genesis scenery files to see if I could eliminate the plateau here (which has been there as long as I can remember). Found that removing the following file, it didn't completely elminate the effect, but it smoothed it out to the point that it is not as noticeable:

\Flight Simulator9\Scenery\World\scenery\dem38_uswc_neve.bgl -----> renamed to dem38_uswc_neve.inp

Not sure if this applies to anyone else, but though I would share.

Hope it helps!  Grin
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Dillon
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Posts: 147


« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2009, 07:01:24 PM »

Hello Dillon!

Good idea - do you know by chance the relevant files lets say for FS GLOBAL 2008 X to be deactivated?

@ Andydigitial: Thanks a lot for your enlightning comment. Much appreciated.

@ Umberto: What about to extend the "plattform" wide into the vincinity? This would work or better to say "hide" the effect as suggested before...

Thanks!

Bert

I'm not sure what file affects this area with FS Global.  I had FS Genesis installed and noticed this months ago using Mach-1's KLAS.  I played around and found the files in question and omitted them.  My problem for this area was solved...
« Last Edit: April 20, 2009, 04:34:15 PM by Dillon » Logged
B777ER
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Posts: 337


« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2009, 08:01:05 PM »

In FS9, did some playing around with some of the FS Genesis scenery files to see if I could eliminate the plateau here (which has been there as long as I can remember). Found that removing the following file, it didn't completely elminate the effect, but it smoothed it out to the point that it is not as noticeable:

\Flight Simulator9\Scenery\World\scenery\dem38_uswc_neve.bgl -----> renamed to dem38_uswc_neve.inp

Not sure if this applies to anyone else, but though I would share.

Hope it helps!  Grin

Yep, that for sure did the trick. thanks. I wonder though how much of the surrounding mountains are affected by renaming that file. I see there looks to be another nevada file with it.....
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Eric
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