Author Topic: addon manager crash on exit p3d 4.2 **SOLVED**  (Read 43064 times)

Sabretooth78

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Re: addon manager crash on exit p3d 4.2 **SOLVED**
« Reply #90 on: July 14, 2018, 02:31:27 am »
I installed P3D 4.3 from scratch and lowered the autogen radius slider from the max and have not had a crash. I read posts on avsim about the autogen slider causing Nvidia device hung messages. The crash on exit was fixed in 4.3 and auto updating gsx. Thank you Virtuali.

That didn't work for me, as I had already set that particular setting to medium. 

The problem might be related to the video card so, acting on the bios might change something related to it.

In other news, I upgraded my video card; I had been thinking about that for a while anyway.  Call it the first piece of the new system.  That didn't help either!  (But so far the performance gain is, shall I say, significant.  I hestitate to say stunning when the configuration isn't fully rebuilt.)

That said, I also tried lowering ALL settings down to minimum.  Basically now it looks like a FS 5.  That didn't help.

Annoyed, I decided to move full speed ahead with the rebuild.  Lo and behold, somewhere along the way, I got 2-3 exits before it reappeared.  We shall see...
« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 02:41:46 am by Sabretooth78 »

Cruachan

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Re: addon manager crash on exit p3d 4.2 **SOLVED**
« Reply #91 on: July 14, 2018, 11:40:40 am »
I decided to move full speed ahead with the rebuild.  Lo and behold, somewhere along the way, I got 2-3 exits before it reappeared.  We shall see...

Hi Sabretooth78,

That alone should be telling us something. I suspect it’s a timing issue, i.e. how long it’s taking for certain modules to unload during the exit phase. I have experienced this behaviour as well from time to time where Prepar3D exits gracefully, but with the next attempt it quickly reverts back to the crash on exit with api.dll being the faulting module. However, I have never witnessed two or more consecutive graceful exits while the FSDT Addon Manager is running.

I have decided I will go ahead with Umberto’s kind offer to engage in a TeamViewer session. Never done this before so I have been doing some homework to familiarise myself with the process. I must say I’m impressed with how this works. TeamViewer needs to be installed and running on both computers. After the weekend I will PM Umberto and provide him with an ID for my PC (created by the App) and the necessary password. Thereafter access should be quite straightforward. I discovered there is a TeamViewer App for iOS devices so installed it on my iPad. Works a treat! The only slight downside is that to see the whole desktop you really have to set the resolution to match the resolution of your Monitor’s screen. Everything then appears quite small albeit sharpness is still maintained on the iPad screen. Selection with your finger then becomes cumbersome and often inaccurate. However there is an option to use the target PC’s mouse pointer and this can be manipulated accurately by finger movement from anywhere on the iPad screen (it’s not necessary to touch the on-screen pointer). You can zoom in and out, double tap to execute, double tap and hold to move a window and so on....pretty much everything is there and can be easily managed on the iPad. I must say I was pleasantly surprised by the responsiveness - Prepar3D loading and exiting mirrored what I have been seeing on my Monitor and all this from the comfort of my armchair in front of the tele! Amazing!

Regards,
Mike

« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 11:54:01 am by Cruachan »

Sabretooth78

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Re: addon manager crash on exit p3d 4.2 **SOLVED**
« Reply #92 on: July 15, 2018, 03:18:06 am »
That alone should be telling us something. I suspect it’s a timing issue, i.e. how long it’s taking for certain modules to unload during the exit phase. I have experienced this behaviour as well from time to time where Prepar3D exits gracefully, but with the next attempt it quickly reverts back to the crash on exit with api.dll being the faulting module. However, I have never witnessed two or more consecutive graceful exits while the FSDT Addon Manager is running.

I had a somewhat productive TM session with Umberto this morning - "somewhat" in the sense that he believed he had diagnosed the problem but wasn't able to fix it.  Anyway, he suspected it was due to running Windows 7.  While I was anticipating an eventual upgrade to Windows 10, I decided I might as well just pull the plug now seeing as Windows 7 is reaching if not already in the fringes of compatibility with P3D and its add-ons.  So I've spent a good portion of today reinstalling everything onto a clean install of Windows 10 and I'm happy to report that it seems to have fixed the problem.

No api.dll crashes; yet anyway, but time will tell...

Cruachan

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Re: addon manager crash on exit p3d 4.2 **SOLVED**
« Reply #93 on: July 15, 2018, 04:34:57 am »
I had a somewhat productive TM session with Umberto this morning - "somewhat" in the sense that he believed he had diagnosed the problem but wasn't able to fix it.  Anyway, he suspected it was due to running Windows 7.  While I was anticipating an eventual upgrade to Windows 10, I decided I might as well just pull the plug now seeing as Windows 7 is reaching if not already in the fringes of compatibility with P3D and its add-ons.  So I've spent a good portion of today reinstalling everything onto a clean install of Windows 10 and I'm happy to report that it seems to have fixed the problem.

No api.dll crashes; yet anyway, but time will tell...

Well, that’s disappointing but I had a feeling that was coming! Naturally I’m happy for you, but if that’s what it takes to resolve this issue then count me out. Windows 10 is a definite no no as far as I am concerned and will remain so for the foreseeable future. Windows 7 has a lot of life in her yet. Arguably the best O/S produced to date by MS IMHO: fast, flexible, user friendly, very stable and with very few vices.

Also, I believe the Vulkan 3D Graphics API is now in direct competition with DirectX 12 and there is very encouraging evidence that an ever increasing number of Games Developers are adopting it to avoid forcing users to upgrade to Windows 10. Unlike DirectX 12 Vulkan has cross platform compatibility.

Anything that keeps MS’s intrusive and meddling ways at a distance is fine by me! If common sense was a factor then instead they should be exploiting Windows 7’s persistent success by giving serious consideration to allowing the continuance of this operating system (with limited support) alongside Windows 10 which, after all, is based largely on the former.

Have you seen Rob Ainscough’s recent demo video of Aerofly FS2 running under Vulkan? Truly astonishing! MS have had it their own way for far too long and I wouldn’t mind betting this potential ‘threat’ is the subject of intense discussions at Microsoft Redmond Campus. Perhaps they will be persuaded to extend support for Windows 7 beyond January, 2020 and reconsider their decision to deny Windows 7 users access to DirectX 12. Both scenarios seem unlikely but one can but hope. As with everything MS the ‘bean counters’ always seem to prevail. Witness what happened to ACES. Doubtless the staff were told that it was nothing personal, only business!

In the meantime, if I am told that I need to upgrade to Windows 10 to resolve this api.dll crash then I will live with it or simply disable the FSDT Addon Manager when I do not require GSX to be running.

I wonder if Vulkan is being considered by LM for Version 5? It could turn out to be a very wise move as it does seem to be an extraordinarily efficient API offering the same feature set and performance advantages as DirectX 12, making it an obvious choice for a developer looking to support as many users as possible.

Regards,
Mike

« Last Edit: July 15, 2018, 03:12:11 pm by Cruachan »

virtuali

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Re: addon manager crash on exit p3d 4.2 **SOLVED**
« Reply #94 on: July 15, 2018, 10:26:22 am »
In the meantine, if I am told that I need to upgrade to Windows 10 to resolve this api.dll crash then I will live with it or simply disable the FSDT Addon Manager when I do not require GSX to be running.

Nobody has told you that, of course.

I'm trying to recognize a common denominator between you two and, there's a 3rd user who posted on Avsim that also has the API.DLL crash on exit and, guess what, he also use Windows 7 so, while I'm not by any means *sure* this is the real reason, it seems we are gathering some evidence it might.

Although it might be annoying to look at, since the crash is on Exit, and the sim IS closing down correctly (not stuck running), it's basically harmless, because Windows DOES have an automatic clean up of any resources used by application when they close, provided they do close, which is the case.

So, there's no need to disable GSX, because the only thing you'll eventually gain, is stopping to see the error in the Event Viewer, but the simulator performances won't change a bit.

I know exactly WHAT is causing the crash (the one I CANNOT replicate, mind...) on your systems, and it's a perfectly legitimate and 100% compliant call to the simulator PDK, required to do Render To Texture (RTT) with DirectX 11, which is almost identical to the sample provided by LM in the SDK, and is only doing a basic preparation work, for something we'll use in FUTURE products, namely KORD V2 and GSX Level 2. But, right now, we are not doing anything with it, just setup the system to be eventually used.

KORD V2 will use such features to display live information panels on the outside of the buildings, and live AI arrival/departure board inside the terminal.

GSX Level 2 will use it to create Jetways with their own individual number, saving A LOT of memory by not modeling each object separately (one for each gate), and allowing users to customize the font, color, style, etc.

But right now, none of this features are "live", only the preparation part is there, without doing anything.

Of course, as usual, we are always the first using cutting edge features but, I suspect that, when more developers would start using these features, you will have similar issues with those products too and, if the issue is really Windows 7, I'm not entirely sure if it would be possible to fix it or troubleshooting it. I assure you that almost every P3D4 developer, including LM, only use Windows 10. You must be crazy, as a developer, not using it, because that's the CURRENT version of Windows, and Windows 7 is not even the previous one, is TWO versions earlier, and as you pointed it out, is already started to be left behind by Microsoft.

I'll remind you that, "Mainstream" support for Windows 7 already ended in September 2015, and the "Extended" support will end in January 2020, so you can expect we'll stop restraining from using Windows 10-specify features, something we are still doing right now.

What we can do, right now, is as follows:

- Enable a user-configuration option (probably in an .INI file), to DISABLE support for the new PDK RTT functions. They are not really required now, so they will surely fix your API.DLL crash on Exit. 

If you'll use this option, you won't be able to enjoy the information panels in KORD V2 (they'll appear black), and you won't see the jetway numbers with GSX Level 2, so you'll be in a similar situation of FSX users, since GSX Level 2 on FSX will not show Jetway numbers (there's no RTT in FSX).

But of course, you can always decide you don't mind the API.DLL crash on Exit, and disable that option, so you'll be able to use KORD V2 and GSX Level 2 in full.

virtuali

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Re: addon manager crash on exit p3d 4.2 **SOLVED**
« Reply #95 on: July 15, 2018, 11:19:04 am »
There's an updated Addon Manager .DLL online now, which has an added option:

Disable RTT

In the Addon Manager settings, set the checkbox to disable the Render To Texture function, which should solve the API.DLL crash on Exit.

At this time, the Render To Texture function is not used by any of our addons so, until GSX Level 2 or KORD V2 will be out, it won't make any difference. After these addons will be released, you might want to consider re-enabling it, otherwise you won't have the airport live information panels or the jetway numbers in GSX (and KORD V2 too).

Assuming the problem only affects Windows 7 users, perhaps by the time we'll release KORD V2 and/or GSX Level 2, you might have upgraded to Windows 10. Or, you can just decide to live with the API.DLL crash on Exit (which is not really harmful) to have such features, or you can decide to just keep using GSX without such features. The choice is yours.


« Last Edit: July 15, 2018, 11:23:36 am by virtuali »

Cruachan

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Re: addon manager crash on exit p3d 4.2 **SOLVED**
« Reply #96 on: July 15, 2018, 05:05:25 pm »
Hi Umberto,

Thank you, thank you!! You have cracked it!

https://i.imgur.com/y3QfYHm.jpg

I had to perform a warm reboot of my PC before it worked, but since then ALL 3 EXIT ROUTES are now completing without any errors. Tested each route 4 times without any failures:

https://i.imgur.com/9gOfrVB.jpg

Looks like that TeamViewer session won't be needed after all!

Well, it's been quite a journey, but the outcome is more than appreciated. Especially so since you did not turn your back on the problem and kept faith with those few who were affected by it. Now, that's what I call excellent Customer Support.

Also, many thanks for the detailed and interesting explanation about the likely underlying cause.

Best regards,
Mike  :)

« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 09:21:31 am by virtuali »

virtuali

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Re: addon manager crash on exit p3d 4.2 **SOLVED**
« Reply #97 on: July 16, 2018, 09:32:07 am »
Quote
Looks like that TeamViewer session won't be needed after all!

Well, it was...after the one I had with Sabretooth78, where I could replicate the problem even with everything else disabled, so I started to suspect the problem could be specific to Windows 7 and, right now, everybody that reported the problem to still be there, are all using Windows 7, which explains why I couldn't replicate it and there weren't many users reporting it.

Not sure if it might be possible to have RTT working in Windows 7, it would require me finding a way to install Windows 7, perhaps on a Virtual machine, and debugging it in a way that might not be practical for users in a remote session and might take a long time, with the risk we'll found it cannot be fixed in any way, possibly because some differences in DirectX between Windows 7 and Windows 10 ( they are not exactly the same ) or issues with the sim itself under Windows 7, which couldn't be fixed on our side. That's the price you pay for being the first using the latest feature of the sim...

tangjuice81

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Re: addon manager crash on exit p3d 4.2 **SOLVED**
« Reply #98 on: October 16, 2018, 01:26:17 am »
This helped. I was getting CTD when flying the AS CRJ-900 and mid flight P3D v4.3 crashed. Thanks.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 08:53:52 am by virtuali »

virtuali

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Re: addon manager crash on exit p3d 4.2 **SOLVED**
« Reply #99 on: October 16, 2018, 08:55:34 am »
This helped. I was getting CTD when flying the AS CRJ-900 and mid flight P3D v4.3 crashed. Thanks.

After the last post of this thread, GSX was updated to be disabled when flying over 10k feet so, if you got a crash over that altitude, it wasn't GSX and it wasn't the RTT function.

Flyboy777

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Re: addon manager crash on exit p3d 4.2 **SOLVED**
« Reply #100 on: January 25, 2019, 05:15:45 pm »
Just wanted to add a quick note to this topic.  I am using windows 10 with P3D v4.4 and I have encountered the same exact problems with the video driver hung error.  I currently own KORD, KDFW, KJFK, KLAX.  The problem ONLY happens with KJFK and KLAX using GSX immediately after takeoff.  If I don’t use GSX I did not have the error.  Today I took off out of KLAX and used GSX after I disabled RTT in the addon manager and everything worked like a charm.  Thank you for the “fix”!   

Jeremy

virtuali

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Re: addon manager crash on exit p3d 4.2 **SOLVED**
« Reply #101 on: January 28, 2019, 11:16:46 pm »
Today I took off out of KLAX and used GSX after I disabled RTT in the addon manager and everything worked like a charm.  Thank you for the “fix”!  

Your problem is still there. That option is there as an emergency, because the very fact you have the "video driver hung error", indicates there IS some problem with your video driver, and GSX is only making it obvious, since it's one of the very few (if any) addons that use the new P3D4 SDK features called "Render to Texture", which allows to use ultra-fast DirectX code to draw text, lines, polygons, etc. Right now, we use it for all jetway numbers and the jetway battery charger indicator.

Of course, we only use 100% fully documented methods in the new SDK so, you can be sure this method is ultra safe, and if it wasn't, we would have hundreds of similar reports of something so obvious like a crash soon after take of in one of the two most popular FSDT sceneries.

So, the problem wasn't caused by GSX, but it appeared only with GSX, because no other addon is trying to use that 100% safe and documented API that, of course, requires your video drivers are in perfect shape, fully updated and with no undocumented tweaks. But yes, since we know that some users might have problems with video drivers, the "Disable RTT" option is there, so you can keep using GSX, until you'll eventually find your video drivers problem or reinstall the system or the sim, and it will likely go away.