FSDreamTeam forum
General Category => Unofficial F/A-18 Acceleration Pack board => Topic started by: Scuddy-25 on February 02, 2012, 06:22:08 pm
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Any new updates for the Sludge Hornet ???
I have been away and Built new PC lol Need a manual install as Fsx is on separate Hard-drive.
Thanks fellas :D
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Scuddy...
When I get home today, before I head out for SuperBowl weekend, I'll package up and release a Sludge FX Test Bird. I was talking with Orion last night on Skype and was only gonna release it to a few people for limited testing, but rethought it today and figured I'd rather have more feedback.
Ill post the link to my release when I get it done later this afternoon/early evening.
The list of updates/mods/changes:
1- Updated flight dynamics for PA (powered approach) mode. They are updated to follow the criticisms of Chris (Mike's son) who told us the Hornet (once trimmed up) maintains on-speed with mostly throttle corrections for glideslope. Visually on the HUD, the relationship between the W (watermark, aircraft nose) and the velocity vector (w/E bracket) should remain the same when you add power or pull back power, IF you are trimmed correctly. A good baseline trim is about 8.5 fuel at 7.0 uptrim. Also, used JIMIs AIR file numbers to get the Hornet to be able to go 1.8+ Mach at MAX power.
2- Worked in conjunction with JIMI and MOLLY BADGER ("shut YO mouth, BRaah") to fix the "pee pee" (or bucking bronco) dance on carrier trap. This means that when you trap, no matter the weight, reasonably off-centerline, or how high your RoD at trap.. the MLG will not come off the deck as they did before, nor will the plane do a little dance in place. It may do a little side to side swerving, but thats minimal. THANK GOD we got this one fixed.
3- Landing gear deploy INHIBIT, landing gear damaging speed, and new scrape points. This little gem is all MOLLY BADGER. This fix will prevent the landing gear from deploying til below 250 kts, will cause damage (gear wont fully deploy) at 300 kts, and gives the scrape points more strength so you wont crash/end your FSX flight if you have a simple collision with crash detection/realism enabled.
4- Updated Carrier Trap/IFLOLS gauge. New gauge is visible even when switching views and has updated information on the lower right side INFO BLOCK. Now includes aircraft trim (good idea Brennan). Gear down, flaps full intiates a mimimum 5.0 uptrim. I tested this and at 3.0 fuel, the uptrim required was still about 5.2, so 5.0 will get you in the ball park quickly once you drop gear and full flaps selected. Also, set joystick sensitivity on elevator trim to half or full left. If you set full right sensitivity, its hard to get the exact number dialed in.
One thing, I'm requesting good FULL comments when offering criticism. If its a criticism in the PA mode, please include carrier details (carrier type, heading, carrier moving/non-moving, speed), environmentals (wind speed/direction), and aircraft configuration (gear down, flaps full, etc), joystick (x52, wingman, warthog hotas), and circumstances (flying the ball or ICLS needles). This way I can determine right off the bat if we are flying the same approaches and try to replicate the situation and evaluate the criticism objectively.
Later
Sludge
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Fellas...
Here it is, ready for testing. www.sludgehornet.com/downloads/Sludge_FX_TestBird.zip (http://www.sludgehornet.com/downloads/Sludge_FX_TestBird.zip)
For NEW installs: simply download, UNZIP, then COPY/PASTE the contents into the SIMOBJECTS\AIRPLANES folder and you're ready to select in Free Flight. Also, remember to COPY/PASTE the contents of SLUDGE EFFECTS folder into your main FSX\EFFECTS folder if you want to see the effects.
For PRIOR SludgeFX installs: move any previous Sludge_FX in SIMOBJECTS/AIRPLANES somewhere else before you UNZIP and copy/paste this package.
Later
Sludge
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A new vLSO and a new Hornet plus it's Super Bowl weekend. My wife is going to kill me. ;)
Mike
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Fellas...
Here it is, ready for testing. www.sludgehornet.com/downloads/Sludge_FX_TestBird.zip (http://www.sludgehornet.com/downloads/Sludge_FX_TestBird.zip)
For NEW installs: simply download, UNZIP, then COPY/PASTE the contents into the SIMOBJECTS\AIRPLANES folder and you're ready to select in Free Flight. Also, remember to COPY/PASTE the contents of SLUDGE EFFECTS folder into your main FSX\EFFECTS folder if you want to see the effects.
For PRIOR SludgeFX installs: move any previous Sludge_FX in SIMOBJECTS/AIRPLANES somewhere else before you UNZIP and copy/paste this package.
Later
Sludge
Sludge,
You keep amazing the Sim community, especially the F/A-18 lovers....I have to go back to Europe for 10 days, so I won't be able to take a test drive right away, but I will when I return.
Thanks as always,
Johan
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Double test with both the new Bug and .4b vLSO. I might of missed it Sludge, but do you post a change log? Noticed the change in roll input right off the cat. Autotrim worked great during the stroke, and I was surprised with the additional control input required for my clearing turn, no issue just wasn't ready to "muscle" the bug around in the dirty config. Upper airwork next and noticed more nose movement in roll (just basic aileron rolls). Autotrim disabled? At what airspeed should I starting looking for the roll rate change? I started at 18k, dirty/on speed, and started rolling as I cleaned up and accel'd in burner. Any changes to field t/o trim inputs? I'm still manually holding the stabs up. All flights with real world downloaded.
Long time VRS flyer since FS9, so I somewhat compare the Sludge to that although I realize there are many changes and major code differences between the 2 models. Great feeling to have an OK 3 after 1 hook up pass in the latest Sludge version.
Anything major you need tested?
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Sludge,
I will be in OKC for work this week meeting with FAA, so I will be unable to test fly until I get home Friday. Thanks for the latest update brother!
-CAPT
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Victory...
I might of missed it Sludge, but do you post a change log?
Usually I post something in here in reference to what I've done, but Ill work on getting one out now that I'm back in town.
Autotrim worked great during the stroke, and I was surprised with the additional control input required for my clearing turn, no issue just wasn't ready to "muscle" the bug around in the dirty config.
This was done to facilitate a "semi-real world" reaction to a full stick deflection, whereas before a low/slow/dirty Hornet would do aileron rolls with no drop in altitude. Now you definately CANNOT fly low/slow/dirty and do a full stick roll. You'll go into the drink. In FSX "control axis" do you have your aileron and elevator responses set full right?
Upper airwork next and noticed more nose movement in roll (just basic aileron rolls). Autotrim disabled?
Yes, more movement in the nose in rolls. The reason is not from the autotrim disabling, it occurs because I had to give the Hornet its original CG/weights. I did that to give the Hornet a more realistic PA (powered approach) mode, where the nose and velocity vector rise/fall in unison w/power changes when trimmed... but that in turn makes the Hornet less balanced in ALL flight regimes. Hence, less uniform (unbalanced) aileron rolls.
Any changes to field t/o trim inputs? I'm still manually holding the stabs up.
Actually, I nulled out the FIELD UP trim. How did the CARRIER T/O up elevator work for you? The BaseFCS XML sets T/O UP ELEVATOR in addition to the regular dirty configuration UP trim. This is an FSX workaround that simulates a "hands off" cat shot. To test, after a standard trap pass, taxi over to the cat and leave the trim as it is... once you hook up the launch bar and arm (tension), go to MAX power (afterburner) to set auto-retract for the launch bar, and throttle back to 80% N2. Dont move the stick, pull up the CHKLST DDI page so you can see trim and elevator position. Now, you'll see UP elevator and UP trim. Launch and dont touch the stick til your velocity vector gets 5 deg nose up. Grab the stick and turn to BRC (ships course) and maintain v/vector at 5 deg and fly the pattern. Tell me your results.
Anything major you need tested?
Let me know what you think of BFM (dogfighting) handling at 10k-20k-30k. I used JIMIs afterburner/mach no. tweak to get the Hornet up to speed at altitude, so it would perform better up in those regimes without re-tweaking the whole 1500 series tables in the AIR file.
That's about it. Thanks for the inputs.
Later
Sludge
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Hey,
Sludge :)
Thank you very much for the reply. Thank you for the download works a treat. Just got to get back into the hornet :P
I am a little rusty as usual but with the Lovers of the Sludge Hornet I know i will get the best of help.
ATM . . . . I am not to sure what Trim i should have or Waite of the Aircraft ??? I normal fly on 5.6 as a starter point.
This is my channel I will be uploading more when i get it right :) Thanks for the support guys.
eature=guide
"Scuddy-25"
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Scuddy...
Thanks for the good words. I set a minimum of 5.0 on the trim but if you are at MAX TRAP fuel (approx. 8.5) you should start around 7.0 on the up trim and work from there.
Since we cant "trim to feel" like real world, the best way to get an FSX "feel" is to practice getting on-speed to where the W is close to the 5 deg up and the v/vector is about 3-4 deg down, then trim to where the aircraft will hold glideslope and on-speed (amber donut, "e-bracket" centered on the v/vector) with a steady throttle setting. When you get that down, you'll know you're trimmed up correctly. Practice that with a full load of aircraft fuel states from 8.5 all the way down to 3.0 (lowest realistic trap fuel).
Later
Sludge
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Hey Sludge :)
Ah Right I will right this down and work on it :) I am trying to work the VLSO as well should help allot.
haven't been able to do much as work is taking over my life with 10 hour days lol but its always something to look forward to after the social life lol.
once again thanks for the help bro :P
"Scuddy"
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Sludge,
This version is great around the boat. :) It responds to throttle the same way I remember the simulator. I think Chris would like this one. I know I do. I got my first OK 3 last night. ;D
I'm having a little problem with trim at cruise speed at altitude, though, which is making formation flying a bit of a challenge. I add backpressure to climb a few feet and when I release the backpressure there is a significant drop in the nose.
Mike
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Mike...
Much thanks. Those fixes were due to both your son's and your direct input on the PA mode handling. Glad you like it around the boat, and other than the trim tolerance at cruise (I'll try to get that auto-trim tolerance tightened up), I'm hoping you like it in dogfight handling too.
BTW, heads up, I'm gonna PM you with a request sometime this weekend.
Later
Sludge
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made 1st few flights, no special report yet but a few comments
I do notice that the Bug catches a wire and comes to a stop ever so nicely, wonderful work looks realistic
"2- Worked in conjunction with JIMI and MOLLY BADGER ("shut YO mouth, BRaah") to fix the "pee pee" (or bucking bronco) dance on carrier trap."
Flight control seems much better.
-----------------------------------------
It may be on my end I may have missed something quite likely,
The parking brake red indicator in the bottom left corner of the screen flashes while the VC handle rotates as well. This is continous but doesn't seem to affect anything. I can set the parking brake as I start engines but when the brake is released it flashes and move.
I'll guess my end has the problem. Any insight is welcome.
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I've found a structural bug if you pull high G at 600kts it causes a crash from structual damage.
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vLSO 0.4 does not pick up the new Sludge! Also why have extra data when the MFD shows necessary data eg the trim setting perhaps such things should be left in the MFD as IRL. Just an idea I suppose for testing purposes its ok for that text box in game but what you want is that removed eventually and the aircraft to only show what is shown IRL. One idea is to replace the text box with coaching for setting up the landing eg trim, dump fuel etc. Also found a bug the parking brake keeps coming on in flight, weird. I'm using a TM Cougar.
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It may be on my end I may have missed something quite likely,
The parking brake red indicator in the bottom left corner of the screen flashes while the VC handle rotates as well. This is continous but doesn't seem to affect anything. I can set the parking brake as I start engines but when the brake is released it flashes and move.
I'll guess my end has the problem. Any insight is welcome.
This happens to me as well. I think the pulsating brakes are part of Sludge's solution to the smoother trap.
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Many thanks Orion
it's not a problem as everything else is fine, just looks odd if I pay attention to it.
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Thank's for a great F18.........
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vLSO 0.4 does not pick up the new Sludge! Also why have extra data when the MFD shows necessary data eg the trim setting perhaps such things should be left in the MFD as IRL. Just an idea I suppose for testing purposes its ok for that text box in game but what you want is that removed eventually and the aircraft to only show what is shown IRL. One idea is to replace the text box with coaching for setting up the landing eg trim, dump fuel etc. Also found a bug the parking brake keeps coming on in flight, weird. I'm using a TM Cougar.
[/quote
Hello Subs!
I do not have a FA18 Cockpit at my home, just FSX and 24 inch monitor. I like what Sludge did and I see the Trim-setting very easy. Maybe this is not your personal liking, so erase it. Here is it how:
In FSUIPC module from Pete Dowson, enter this:[Buttons]
ButtonRepeat=20,10
EliminateTransients=Yes
pollinterval=50
1=PA,8,C66079,0 ;//Gear-up
2=PA,9,C66080,0 ;//Gear-down
3=PA,13,K81,9 ;//Tailhook
P=Pulse A=my Joystick, 8, 9= the Toggle-button T1 on my Joystik Gear up/down C is the Microsoft Coding. Now with the Tailhook down BTN #13 (T5) I can make a shift+6 on the keyboard and the display: Trim and IFOL closes without the Tail-hook going up. This is what you want,right? Herb
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Hi Sludge
Long time bro ..I see you been busy again :)
Thanks so much for all your work .. Love the way the sludge responds to the throttle inputs on approach. In the past I have always had to apply some stick input once trimmed up but for the first time ever I now feel like the sludge is responding the way it should ie throttle controls height and nose controls speed :) makes corrections on glideslope so much more predictable even with the delayed responses. I also suffer from the parking brake issue however I have noticed a nasty side effect.. yesterday I boltered and because the wheel brakes were turning on and off it was like touching down in wet concrete the brakes sapped all of my speed and with the reduction in speed I only just managed at full AB to avoid going into the drink. :o I guess the obvious solution is dont bolter but if this issue can be sorted out I would be very gratefull.
We really need to get back out to the virtual San Diego for some sessions behind the boat again.
Sonofabeech out!!!
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WILY...
The parking brake red indicator in the bottom left corner of the screen flashes while the VC handle rotates as well.
Yes, that was an on-going test that I forgot to eliminate from the Test Package. Ill send out another Base_FCS.XML soon, that eliminates that problem.
SUBS...
vLSO 0.4 does not pick up the new Sludge!
Not sure why it cant pick it up. I've flown using the new 0.4 and the test Sludge and it works. You'll have to elaborate on your test setup.
Also why have extra data when the MFD shows necessary data eg the trim setting perhaps such things should be left in the MFD as IRL.
I did this because its easier to read this stuff than it is on the MFDs. Especially the the TRIM and FUEL states. The Wire Caught information block has been there for a while for people that like to have that information on touchdown. Plus, it was CAPTs request to have TRIM included as well as the FUEL states, so you can have a proper ball call without having to zoom into the MFDs. Remember, not everybody flies with a big monitor and cannot read the default Hornet MFDs clearly even after adjusting the GDI page to max intensity.
I've found a structural bug if you pull high G at 600kts it causes a crash from structual damage.
Exactly what are you doing? Is HIGH-G sustained 10 plus Gs at 600kts? Gimme the exact scenario and I'll re-look at the contact points and scrape damage limits.
Cobrales...
Thanks, appreciate it.
SIMON...
You old dog, its good to hear from you!! Yeah, I've been busy, losing sleep over modding/tweaking again. Guess when it gets cold around here and I can't golf, you can pretty much guess what I will be doing.
Love the way the sludge responds to the throttle inputs on approach. In the past I have always had to apply some stick input once trimmed up but for the first time ever I now feel like the sludge is responding the way it should ie throttle controls height and nose controls speed
No problem, and thanks for the good words. Alot of the fellas are saying the same thing, but everyone should thank Mike and his son Chris (real world USMC Hornet driver), as they pointed out the folly of my earlier versions. So I stopped modding mid-stream (stings, i know) and went back to the default versions weight balance and sure enough. BAM-O, you now have trim-stabilized approaches that are mostly dependent on throttle for glideslope adjustments. Stick is now only used for lineup corrections. The key for me was hearing Chris say "the default Hornet was the best on approach". This made me re-think and re-mod some of the approach dynamics, as I think I'd strayed too far off-track at that point.
We really need to get back out to the virtual San Diego for some sessions behind the boat again.
No doubt. You'd like the "new guys" (to me) that we fly with, especially JIMI (FSXBA) and all the fellas of the FSXBA. Little more adult humor (goes from zero-to-raunchy in 5 seconds) but the Skype sessions and flying are really good. I haven't flown with them ALOT in multiplayer but every now and then I'll get out there.
Later
Sludge
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Simon @
thanks so far only caught a wire once, rest were waveoffs so no bolter to see but I'll try some more and a bolter will occur
or
Sludge @
ok looking forward to next download
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Fellas...
Here's the fixed files.
Once you download, UNZIP, then copy/paste the AIRCRAFT.CFG into the main folder, overwrite the prior version. Then do the same with the PANEL.CFG in the PANEL folder. Then, copy/paste the whole BASIC folder into the PANEL folder.
www.sludgehornet.com/downloads/Sludge_Test_UPDATE.zip
Later
Sludge
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Hello Sludge,
I was finally able to install your new test bird....very impressed with the new handling. Amazing approach on the AC and for me, not the slightest bucking at landing. One thing I have lost though, and I am not sure why, is the g-vapor effect ...Please let me know if normal, or are there any new effects I need to install with this new version.
Thanks a lot,
Johan
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Johan...
Glad you liked the new tweaks/mods... and when I get home from work tomorrow, I'll dig into your problem and see whats happening. No NEW effects, it should be the same and work as-is with no corrections needed on your part.
Later
Sludge
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Johan...
Do any of the effects work? The Hi-N1 exhaust gas? What about the Hi-N2 approach smoke? If these work, let me know.
If yes, then check in your FSX\Effects folder for "fx_f18_medG_LEXVapor_R/L" (both Right/Left effects) and if they are there, and you still dont get the effect.
I get the effects just fine but I may have released it assuming something that wasnt true for anyone just doing a new install with the Test_Sludge bird.
Later
Sludge
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Johan...
Do any of the effects work? The Hi-N1 exhaust gas? What about the Hi-N2 approach smoke? If these work, let me know.
If yes, then check in your FSX\Effects folder for "fx_f18_medG_LEXVapor_R/L" (both Right/Left effects) and if they are there, and you still dont get the effect.
I get the effects just fine but I may have released it assuming something that wasnt true for anyone just doing a new install with the Test_Sludge bird.
Later
Sludge
Hi Sludge,
Thanks for your response. On the new test-bird, the Hi-N1 exhaust gas and Hi-N2 approach smoke do not work either. I do have "fx_f18_medG_LEXVapor_R/L" in my effect folder, so that's not the problem. I re-installed the previous version of the Sludge this morning and all the effects are working fine...I will make a line by line comparison of both aircraft.cfg today and see if I find anything odd.
Thanks for your follow up,
Johan
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Sludge,
I might have omitted to copy and paste the "Basic" folder into the "Panel" folder...I will check tonight on my system. That would explain why I am missing those effects.
I will let you know.
Thanks,
Johan
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Johan...
Do any of the effects work? The Hi-N1 exhaust gas? What about the Hi-N2 approach smoke? If these work, let me know.
If yes, then check in your FSX\Effects folder for "fx_f18_medG_LEXVapor_R/L" (both Right/Left effects) and if they are there, and you still dont get the effect.
I get the effects just fine but I may have released it assuming something that wasnt true for anyone just doing a new install with the Test_Sludge bird.
Later
Sludge
Sludge,
Alright, I got all the effects back, it was my mistake during the installation of the new Test_Sludge...sorry.
Thanks again, I am enjoying this with vLSO (thanks Serge!).
Johan
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sludge---
did I miss it, how many files should be in the basic folder
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sludge---
did I miss it, how many files should be in the basic folder
You should have 7.
Johan
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Wily...
I dont think you missed anything, was just making sure Johan had the right effects in the FSX\Effects folder. So unless you are missing some effects, you should be fine.
Later
Sludge
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ok, have 7
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Is this just a test for the FX version? Are the "basic" versions going to get an upgrade too?
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HVern...
Is this just a test for the FX version? Are the "basic" versions going to get an upgrade too?
For now, this is a test of the FX version. I test that version to make sure everything works correctly, as it has everything... and if it tests correctly, the other versions will work. All the Sludge versions (Basic/FX and CaptSim Delta Basic/FX) will be incorporated, once flight testing is complete.
Later
Sludge
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Fellas...
OK, Im finally back in the saddle modding again after a great vacation/business trip to San Diego. Thanks to Mike and his son Chris, I got to sit the seat (swapout w/Jimi) in the legacy Hornet simulator at MCAS Miramar. Was quite a fun time and a very eye opening experience from a modding standpoint.
Here's a few observations that I got and will be working to mod as I get more time.
My earlier assumptions that the FCS will help keep the pilot out of trouble (dangerous AoA, low energy state, stall conditions) were COMPELETELY WRONG. The legacy Hornet FCS is there to give the pilot what he asks for to the max extent possible. Whether this gets the jet into an out-of-control state is irrelevant, the FCS will give the pilot what he asks for (stick/throttle inputs) the best it can at the given time.
Also, I realized why the Hornet has two flight modes (UA/up-and-away; PA/powered approach), because the real Hornet behaves VERY DIFFERENTLY in those regimes. For FSX modding/tweaking purposes, Id consider UA above 250, clean... and PA below 250/clean or dirty. In the UA mode, the Hornet is quite nimble in its handling and can grab/hold commanded angles of bank very easily. Snap roll to 80 deg and pulling some Gs is quite easy to maintain. That is until you get below 250. Which happens really quick, if you sustain max G. The Hornet will easily bleed off from 450kts to less than 200kts and high AoA (25-30 units). You'll soon find the Hornet handling feels "slushy" and takes a very DEFT TOUCH to fly well. This is what I'm guessing Mike was talking about from his sim time. The Hornet is quite fickle and DOES NOT like BIG, HAM-FISTED stick inputs in this regime. I'll try to make my mods based on this from here on out. In addition, the last Sludge Test Bird was much closer to what Mike and Chris described and what I experienced in the sim: if you are trimmed correctly, you can fly a pass using VERY LITTLE vertical stick inputs. The throttle will control glideslope ALMOST exclusively as the correct trim will keep you on speed. I'll keep this aspect but will be tweaking the .AIR file to model the "slushy" feel to a greater extent than what I've done.
The hard part will be to find an FSX BALANCE between the UA and PA modes, because the .AIR file is still quite hard to manipulate in one area (dogfighting vs. carrier pattern) without affecting the other. But I now know that I will try to model the systems to what the jet CAN DO and not "protecting" the pilot from getting the Hornet into a bad situation, as I used to do.
Also, there are some software changes to the HUD that I'll try to incorporate in the next edition. First is that below 1000' AGL, the HUD displays BARO ALT in the ALT BOX and RDR ALT just below without a BOX and with an R next to it. In addition, as heard previous by other guys that flew the sim, when you are in PA mode and trim up/down, you see the AoA you are trimming to just above the TCN on the HUD... it stays for about 5 secs and then disappears. Will try to integrate this, once the "trim to AoA" problem Jimi is working on is solved.
Things we CANT CHANGE.
The VC physical HUD brackets/AoA indexer and how wrong its been modeled. At the sim and the Blues El Centro airshow, in the static display aircraft, the Hornet HUD physical brackets are NOT directly parallel. They are splayed outwards approx 5-10 degrees. Since I'm at work, I can't post my pictures, but in comparison, the T-45 HUD brackets are directly parallel and Dino's model is correct; whereas the Hornet models I've flown all assumed the HUD brackets are directly parallel (think railroad tracks) and this is not the case. Also, the AoA Indexer is MICROSCOPIC in comparison to what it is in the real Hornet cockpit. I mean, in the real cockpit, its at least 3x as small as the Hornet VC and its imbedded in the physical brackets, not sticking out. You barely notice it, except when its activated.
Also, the eyepoint is wayy off, its back too far. Maybe this was done with game playability in mind or whatever? All I know is its not what I experienced in the sim. We could have a closer eyepoint but you'll lose HUD symbology at the top cut off, and you'd lose some visibility of the fuel mgmt panel.
Nor can we make two separate flight modes that make dogfighting and good carrier pattern handling just like the real thing. Just not possible with FSX and the default Hornet because its a constant balancing act/trade-off between getting it close enough yet still giving both modes the justice they deserve.
Later
Sludge
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AMAZING-----CONGRATS !
Great news and even I am jealous.
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Fellas...
OK, Im finally back in the saddle modding again after a great vacation/business trip to San Diego. Thanks to Mike and his son Chris, I got to sit the seat (swapout w/Jimi) in the legacy Hornet simulator at MCAS Miramar. Was quite a fun time and a very eye opening experience from a modding standpoint.
Here's a few observations that I got and will be working to mod as I get more time.
My earlier assumptions that the FCS will help keep the pilot out of trouble (dangerous AoA, low energy state, stall conditions) were COMPELETELY WRONG. The legacy Hornet FCS is there to give the pilot what he asks for to the max extent possible. Whether this gets the jet into an out-of-control state is irrelevant, the FCS will give the pilot what he asks for (stick/throttle inputs) the best it can at the given time.
Also, I realized why the Hornet has two flight modes (UA/up-and-away; PA/powered approach), because the real Hornet behaves VERY DIFFERENTLY in those regimes. For FSX modding/tweaking purposes, Id consider UA above 250, clean... and PA below 250/clean or dirty. In the UA mode, the Hornet is quite nimble in its handling and can grab/hold commanded angles of bank very easily. Snap roll to 80 deg and pulling some Gs is quite easy to maintain. That is until you get below 250. Which happens really quick, if you sustain max G. The Hornet will easily bleed off from 450kts to less than 200kts and high AoA (25-30 units). You'll soon find the Hornet handling feels "slushy" and takes a very DEFT TOUCH to fly well. This is what I'm guessing Mike was talking about from his sim time. The Hornet is quite fickle and DOES NOT like BIG, HAM-FISTED stick inputs in this regime. I'll try to make my mods based on this from here on out. In addition, the last Sludge Test Bird was much closer to what Mike and Chris described and what I experienced in the sim: if you are trimmed correctly, you can fly a pass using VERY LITTLE vertical stick inputs. The throttle will control glideslope ALMOST exclusively as the correct trim will keep you on speed. I'll keep this aspect but will be tweaking the .AIR file to model the "slushy" feel to a greater extent than what I've done.
The hard part will be to find an FSX BALANCE between the UA and PA modes, because the .AIR file is still quite hard to manipulate in one area (dogfighting vs. carrier pattern) without affecting the other. But I now know that I will try to model the systems to what the jet CAN DO and not "protecting" the pilot from getting the Hornet into a bad situation, as I used to do.
Also, there are some software changes to the HUD that I'll try to incorporate in the next edition. First is that below 1000' AGL, the HUD displays BARO ALT in the ALT BOX and RDR ALT just below without a BOX and with an R next to it. In addition, as heard previous by other guys that flew the sim, when you are in PA mode and trim up/down, you see the AoA you are trimming to just above the TCN on the HUD... it stays for about 5 secs and then disappears. Will try to integrate this, once the "trim to AoA" problem Jimi is working on is solved.
Things we CANT CHANGE.
The VC physical HUD brackets/AoA indexer and how wrong its been modeled. At the sim and the Blues El Centro airshow, in the static display aircraft, the Hornet HUD physical brackets are NOT directly parallel. They are splayed outwards approx 5-10 degrees. Since I'm at work, I can't post my pictures, but in comparison, the T-45 HUD brackets are directly parallel and Dino's model is correct; whereas the Hornet models I've flown all assumed the HUD brackets are directly parallel (think railroad tracks) and this is not the case. Also, the AoA Indexer is MICROSCOPIC in comparison to what it is in the real Hornet cockpit. I mean, in the real cockpit, its at least 3x as small as the Hornet VC and its imbedded in the physical brackets, not sticking out. You barely notice it, except when its activated.
Also, the eyepoint is wayy off, its back too far. Maybe this was done with game playability in mind or whatever? All I know is its not what I experienced in the sim. We could have a closer eyepoint but you'll lose HUD symbology at the top cut off, and you'd lose some visibility of the fuel mgmt panel.
Nor can we make two separate flight modes that make dogfighting and good carrier pattern handling just like the real thing. Just not possible with FSX and the default Hornet because its a constant balancing act/trade-off between getting it close enough yet still giving both modes the justice they deserve.
Later
Sludge
I guess you just got your dream-shot!
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For the FM have you thought of asking VRS how they modelled both modes in the VRS SH? They seem to have accoplished a FM with UA and PA plus other features like the real SH FBW. Although they are different aircraft they do share those 2 modes in the FBW. Also NASA FM data might be a good idea. You could try talking to Mavjp on BMS forums hes a FM guru his latest FM for Falcon 4 BMS 4.321 is more realistic than an actual Mil Viper sim FM. ;D
http://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/forum.php
They've got a FM for a hornet already but you never know what else is on this forum. Anyway good luck with your FM your best bet is to ask some of these guys they may have a solution.
cheers
Subs
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Lucky you Sludge! Great feedback too.
Johan
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Sludge, good news on your Hornet sim experience. What a lucky chap. Great news that your experience will be in your SLUDGE modifications now.
Interesting about the HUD and AoA indexer differences. I'm guessing it was not an issue when the Hornet was first made but becomes an issue for carrier landings in FSX now.
May I ask that you err on the carrier landing side of realism (rather than free flight) if that is possible please?
And again thanks for all your hard work modifying the Sludge.
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Fellas...
OK, Im finally back in the saddle modding again after a great vacation/business trip to San Diego. Thanks to Mike and his son Chris, I got to sit the seat (swapout w/Jimi) in the legacy Hornet simulator at MCAS Miramar. Was quite a fun time and a very eye opening experience from a modding standpoint.
Glad i could help with that. :)
Also, the eyepoint is wayy off, its back too far. Maybe this was done with game playability in mind or whatever? All I know is its not what I experienced in the sim. We could have a closer eyepoint but you'll lose HUD symbology at the top cut off, and you'd lose some visibility of the fuel mgmt panel.
Later
Sludge
I agree about the eye postion being too far back. I have been fighting the eyepoint problem ever since my time in the sim. :( I still haven't come up with a zoom level and eye position that I'm happy with. I wish I had thought to measure the actual width of the panel. With that I could mathematically calculate the correct zoom level and eye position for my monitor size.
Mike (Snake 54)
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Fellas...
OK, Im finally back in the saddle modding again after a great vacation/business trip to San Diego. Thanks to Mike and his son Chris, I got to sit the seat (swapout w/Jimi) in the legacy Hornet simulator at MCAS Miramar. Was quite a fun time and a very eye opening experience from a modding standpoint.
Glad i could help with that. :)
Also, the eyepoint is wayy off, its back too far. Maybe this was done with game playability in mind or whatever? All I know is its not what I experienced in the sim. We could have a closer eyepoint but you'll lose HUD symbology at the top cut off, and you'd lose some visibility of the fuel mgmt panel.
Later
Sludge
I agree about the eye postion being too far back. I have been fighting the eyepoint problem ever since my time in the sim. :( I still haven't come up with a zoom level and eye position that I'm happy with. I wish I had thought to measure the actual width of the panel. With that I could mathematically calculate the correct zoom level and eye position for my monitor size.
Mike (Snake 54)
hi Mike, you and your son have been a miracle ever since you got on this forum. Thanks aplenty. Keep going on the projects.
Can't wait for the new efforts.
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Awesome news Sludge!!! So you left out the most important part, did you have a go at the boat??? If so, how'd it go?
Looks like you got a lot of good intel, and will keep you busy modding for sure, thanks again for your efforts. Look forward to the updated handling and HUD symbology.
Definitely agree with wanting to update the VC HUD, here is a good pic from the drivers seat that I wish we could replicate in FSX.
-CAPT
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Outstanding news Sludge, I doubt many full time developers get a chance in the sim. You have come a long from the "roided out rocketship" stock Hornet.
I can understand what SUBS17 means, as I fly the "other" Bug alot and sometimes back to back with yours, probably a bad habit, but easy to understand the differences between UA and PA modes.
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Wily...
Yeah, it was a great time. Also, forgot to tell ya but I coulda been in the LSO shack with Chris the thursday I got there, had my plane been ON TIME. Oh well, cant win everything.
Raz...
Yes, it was a DREAM RIDE. It was very eye-opening as well, especially the whole FEEL of the simulator and how close up to the HUD you seem.
SUBS...
Doesnt really work like that. Even if I didn't have problems with their flight model, especially the PA mode... I cant incorporate that or anything else into the Sludge (MS default mod) which works using a combination of the FA18.dll, the AIRCRAFT.CFG, and the FA18.AIR files. We can mod/tweak the last two, but the .DLL is something we have to work AGAINST at times. In example, if there is something hard-coded into that .DLL and a gauge is made that goes against it (eg. rudder inputs)... well, then you get things like "rudder flutter" where the XML gauge is sending commands at 18/sec and the .DLL is sending something else... so you get the flutter. If I'm not mistaken, VRS 'Bug has/had this problems as well in their FCS coding.
I always keep my eyes/ears open to the forums, especially FSDeveloper.com, Simviation and the like but I dont think I'll be asking Jon Blum for anything anytime soon. Beyond personal differences, he wont "give out" anything outside of his development... so its really a moot point. Also, keep in mind... having flown in the sim, the VRS FM has a lot to be desired AND people often forget the Legacy Hornet and SuperBug are different in their handling, especially in PA mode. So you cant just mix/match because they both have Hornet in their names.
Johan...
Yes, I'm VERY LUCKY to have gotten to sit the seat in the sim. Was a lot of fun.
Spaz...
Well, its not an issue for REAL WORLD Hornets as much as it is for us in FSX. The reason being that the real world has a COLLIMATED and CONFORMAL HUD with the designed wide view (hence the splayed out HUD brackets) and an eyepoint that is much more forward than the FSX Hornet. I'm guessing this was done for "pan-scan" ability or something? But the problem now becomes lack of view thru the HUD that would mimic real world and give us a far wider view of the HUD and sky. Ever fly the Aerosoft F-16? That is still the BEST HUD in FSX, IMO... because it mimics a real world HUD the best I've ever seen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZXR_z9wR6Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZXR_z9wR6Q) (crank up to 720p, and look at how sharp the HUD is and how it projects out past the HUD glass)
The reason I bring this up is look at the eyepoint (notice how "high" it is in comparison) and how the HUD seems PROJECTED out into space. I know its an F-16, but this was my experience in the Hornet sim and a real world Hornet on the ground... the Hornet sim draws the HUD directly on the projection screen, in essense does the same thing and you dont have to re-focus.
I've thought long and hard and I'm not trying to take away from carrier landings but I will strive to make an equal balance between dogfighting and carrier landing mods. The reason is I dont want the Sludge being JUST for carrier landings. I'm still working on the air pressure/air density ratio falloff mods that will make engines more realistic at higher altitudes at MIL power, so that I dont have to overpower the engines just to make the Sludge a dogfighter at med-high altitudes. Right now, the Sludge can dogfight just fine at 10k and below but starting around 15k and definately at 20k and above, there is an unrealistic power response fall off that is an inherent problem in FSX that some FSDeveloper guys have figured out a workaround solution.
Mike...
Thanks again.
When I got back, I tried working on the eyepoint problem myself but only came up with more problems than solutions. If you move the eyepoint forward and a little up, you have to change the HUD size to keep it conformal and then you have get the canopy bow getting really HUGE because as you move your eyepoint forward, the bow gets unreasonably big. I have no idea why? If you can handle those problems, then you gotta think about HUD readability at a distance and if the symbology needs to be artificially enlarged just to read it. So yes, I know those problems well. We may have to trade ideas via email and see if we cant get a middle-ground FSX solution to this?
CAPT...
Yes, I did some go's at the boat and they were so-so. I did a bad pattern, as the legacy is alot more "slushy" in PA than I'm used to, coming from the Sludge mods. And then doing a straight in, the best I could do was a four wire for all my passes. And some really bad (1000 fpm sink rate) 4 wires at that... the reason to me was, the throttle response AND good lord, the ball gets SUPER SENSITIVE IC. I was flying a solid ball, 'til I hit IC and then boom it shot straight up from cresting to top ball and I would almost IDLE just to get a 4 wire. Now I see why there is never a time that a pilot is NOT working the throttles. CONSTANT THROTTLE MANAGEMENT is the key.
Your picture hit the nail on the head. You can see how the AoA Indexer is very small and imbedded into the physical bracket. Also, how the HUD brackets seem "skinny" in comparison and dont have alot of inner 3d perspective changes, whereas the VC HUD has a massive 3d perspective change that takes away from viewpoint.
Victory103...
Yes, the sim time gave me a very new perspective, no doubt.
The UA and PA FCS modes were definately borne out of necessity because of the Hornet's behavior in those flight regimes. If those two different modes didn't exist, the Hornet would be good to fly in the UA and damn hear impossible to fly in the PA. The FCS seemed to fight/get sluggish when doing high AoA stuff or just pulling too many Gs and getting slow. I'm guessing Hornet pilots spend alot of time there to get comfy, so they really know the LIMs of the jet and dont get freaked out when she's slow or near departure.
Later
Sludge
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Sounds like you had a good time! :D
What was the actual simulator like? A full mock-up of the Hornet cockpit? Just a screen in front, or was there a wrap-around projection? Full motion? How were the visuals compared to FSX? :P
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Orion...
It was just like the pentagonal setup that L3 runs. I think CAPT may have shown pictures of it here on a post? Yes, its a full up cockpit layout with all the switches/circuit breakers that work, and of course the stick and throttle. The HUD doesnt project like a real HUD, its simply "drawn" on the main forward screen and the others fill in the rest of the world around, full 360 deg coverage.
Here's an outside view:
http://www.aerotechnews.com/aeroventura/navy/F-A-18-trainers-receive-360-degree-high-definition-visual-system (http://www.aerotechnews.com/aeroventura/navy/F-A-18-trainers-receive-360-degree-high-definition-visual-system)
Here's the actual sim view:
http://www.aviationnews.eu/2010/08/18/fa-18cd-toft-you%E2%80%99ve-come-a-long-way-baby/ (http://www.aviationnews.eu/2010/08/18/fa-18cd-toft-you%E2%80%99ve-come-a-long-way-baby/)
(if you look just left of the HUD physical brackets, on the main screen, you can see the HUD symbology projected on there; it says C/D trainer, but it has a E/F setup... they are the same basic trainer tho)
The visuals were a little more simplistic than FSX and one of the other guys (forget his name) said that its not really good for dogfighting, mostly for practicing procedural stuff (group maneuvering, carrier stuff, IFEs). The visual recognition is a big problem and thats a big deal when it comes to dogfighting... think FSX when its draw distance gets cranked down and you cant spot other aircraft quickly because its not in range to be drawn. Not the place you want to be when looking for the other guy who's trying to kill you. Classic fighter pilot axiom: lose sight, lose the fight.
Hope this helps.
Later
Sludge
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Sludge,
Thanks for the feedback, I know what you mean about ball flying in the sim, sounds similar to my experience in the Super Hornet sim. I also agree with the lack in graphics, the sim in Oceana was not very impressive. The water, clouds, and aircraft carrier looked extremely basic (not many details or eye candy) in the sim, FSX's Javier Nimitz and REX look a heck of a lot better in my opinion and was noticeable when I flew my rig back at the house following the sim experience. However, having a real cockpit and controls, dome projected world, with a very precise/accurately simulated IFOLS is second to none. Check out this company, http://www.cyberdome.com/mil/f18.html in case anyone has some extra money lying around ;D
Also did a side by side comparison pic for the eyepoint and HUD discussion.
-CAPT
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CAPT...
No problem. Its funny how much a person's perspective changes once they hit the sim. It definately opens eyes. You're right tho, in the big picture, Id rather have flight dynamics/realistic world behaviors/carrier ops over eye-candy any day of the week.
Fellas...
I have an idea that might work for the HUD glass projection plane? If anybody is good at modding the layout/black alpha layers of the main $fa18.dds (at work; not sure of exact nomenclature), we might be able to get it the correct size of the VC HUD "glass". This would help alleviate the problems of moving the eyepoint and losing projection space at the top of the HUD "glass" where it closes together and allow us to project symbology higher on the glass plane... just like CAPTs picture.
Later
Sludge
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Since PA is operational when the gear is lowered and UA is when the gear is up perhaps a separate file could be used for each. eg one FM file for gear down and a second for when gear is up. As for Hornet FM data you should seriously ask Mavjp as he used NASA wind tunnel data for the latest BMS F-16 FM. And we know that NASA had a Hornet so there must be similar data out there for the Hornet. BTW BMS are working on a Hornet by the looks for BMS so you could help each other out in exchange ideas etc.
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SUBS...
Since PA is operational when the gear is lowered and UA is when the gear is up perhaps a separate file could be used for each. eg one FM file for gear down and a second for when gear is up.
Actually, it would be great if it worked like this but its doesnt. Jimi and I have been working on approximating a PA and UA mode, but again... its not about simply incorporating FM data into the Hornet. Its about trying to integrate it WITH and sometimes AGAINST the baseline .DLL file.
Plus, I already have Ave Joe's (Delta Hornet Test WSO) numbers.
Later
Sludge
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Question for you Sludge: I've been flying your bird for a while now, and thoroughly enjoy it, particularly for the FPM and AOA indicator. I've a question though about the flight characteristics, specifically taking off & landing - they both seem to use far less runway than in real life. After researching the minimum distance requirements for landing, I came up with a requirement between 3 to 4,000 feet for landing, depending on conditions, amount of fuel, temperature etc. An F-18 pilot I'm in communication with says 3,900 feet; his supervisor says to allow for 6,000. But with your F-18, I can land and brake in less than 1,000 feet. Seems like the brakes are on steroids! Any insight?
Thanks in advance
H
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Hominid...
Yes, the brakes are ON STEROIDs. Its one of the default FSX Hornet stuff that I barely mess with... at this point. Considering your input, I'll probly look into it for Sludge v2.0, along with other fixes in-conjunction with JIMIs FSXBA Hornet fixes and XMLs.
Keep in mind that we (FSX default Hornet modders) were happy to get the braking problem fixed but I will be more than happy to delve into this discrepancy as I get more time for the holiday season coming up. As I dont have a family, during the holidays I get MORE TIME to mod instead of LESS time, so I'll make it a point to incorporate your observations into my test/modding cycles. Thanks for the critiques/questions.
Later
Sludge
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FYI - I did find the parameter in the config file and changed it from 1.0 to 0.35 - I now land (with brakes full on) in just under 3,000 feet.
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Hominid...
FYI - I did find the parameter in the config file and changed it from 1.0 to 0.35 - I now land (with brakes full on) in just under 3,000 feet.
That's good you tweak like that... as I tell people here, I'm more than happy when you guys do your own tweaking and share it with everyone. You can take what works for you and use it as you wish. That being said, I'll try to look at the .AIR file and see if there's a modifyable ramp table for the brakes because at 0.35 scalar, you wont be able to "hold station" when you run up the engines even to MIL power, you'll notice you'll start to "break free" and start rolling forward. The reason I increased braking power was to give better holding power to the brakes when running up the engines and trying to stay put.
Will let you know how that goes, so that if it does work, you'll get the proper rollout on landing but be able to hold station with a MIL power run-up, then release brakes and take off.
Later
Sludge
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Hominid...
FYI - I did find the parameter in the config file and changed it from 1.0 to 0.35 - I now land (with brakes full on) in just under 3,000 feet.
That's good you tweak like that... as I tell people here, I'm more than happy when you guys do your own tweaking and share it with everyone. You can take what works for you and use it as you wish. That being said, I'll try to look at the .AIR file and see if there's a modifyable ramp table for the brakes because at 0.35 scalar, you wont be able to "hold station" when you run up the engines even to MIL power, you'll notice you'll start to "break free" and start rolling forward. The reason I increased braking power was to give better holding power to the brakes when running up the engines and trying to stay put.
Will let you know how that goes, so that if it does work, you'll get the proper rollout on landing but be able to hold station with a MIL power run-up, then release brakes and take off.
Later
Sludge
Ah - that makes sense. So - makes me wonder about the FSX engine itself, that there isn't the granularity to differentiate between the two. I guess the digital emulation world != analogue world... Keep me posted, and let me know if there's anything I can help you with.
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Sludge,
One feature I added to your bird is a work around for HUD brightness on the 2D HUD. I added another window [09] in the Panel.cfg file that duplicates the 2D HUD lines, but uses a lower alpha blend value. I do this to have a day time HUD brightness, alpha blend = 0.95 for window [00], and a night time HUD brightness, alpha blend = 0.30 for window [09], which allows me to now change the brightness in FSX and not have to tweak the panel file before night flights. Basically, I can switch back and forth between day time and night time HUD brightness.
Anyways thought I would share for those who fly at night and need to dim the HUD brightness on the 2D HUD.
GOONIE
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Goonie...
Good idea and good work. Yeah, I just bought most of the parts for a semi-new rig and did the breakdown last night, so I'm replying from work. I got a ddr3/sata2 mobo, 16gb ram (to help with FSX), evga GTX 660 (for shooter games), and should be back up and running in a day or two.
Figures I do this now, and we got some really good stuff happening on the boards like Orion's pitch/weave carrier mod.
Later
Sludge