Author Topic: Sludge Hornet F/A-18  (Read 37713 times)

Victory103

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 162
Re: Sludge Hornet F/A-18
« Reply #45 on: March 24, 2012, 09:36:38 am »
Outstanding news Sludge, I doubt many full time developers get a chance in the sim. You have come a long from the "roided out rocketship" stock Hornet.

I can understand what SUBS17 means, as I fly the "other" Bug alot and sometimes back to back with yours, probably a bad habit, but easy to understand the differences between UA and PA modes.
DUSTOFF
ARMY PROPS

Sludge

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1110
  • SQUEEZING EVERY NICKEL of life for all its worth!
    • SludgeHornet.NET
Re: Sludge Hornet F/A-18
« Reply #46 on: March 26, 2012, 06:52:39 am »
Wily...

Yeah, it was a great time. Also, forgot to tell ya but I coulda been in the LSO shack with Chris the thursday I got there, had my plane been ON TIME. Oh well, cant win everything.

Raz...

Yes, it was a DREAM RIDE. It was very eye-opening as well, especially the whole FEEL of the simulator and how close up to the HUD you seem.

SUBS...

Doesnt really work like that. Even if I didn't have problems with their flight model, especially the PA mode... I cant incorporate that or anything else into the Sludge (MS default mod) which works using a combination of the FA18.dll, the AIRCRAFT.CFG, and the FA18.AIR files. We can mod/tweak the last two, but the .DLL is something we have to work AGAINST at times. In example, if there is something hard-coded into that .DLL and a gauge is made that goes against it (eg. rudder inputs)... well, then you get things like "rudder flutter" where the XML gauge is sending commands at 18/sec and the .DLL is sending something else... so you get the flutter. If I'm not mistaken, VRS 'Bug has/had this problems as well in their FCS coding.

I always keep my eyes/ears open to the forums, especially FSDeveloper.com, Simviation and the like but I dont think I'll be asking Jon Blum for anything anytime soon. Beyond personal differences, he wont "give out" anything outside of his development... so its really a moot point. Also, keep in mind... having flown in the sim, the VRS FM has a lot to be desired AND people often forget the Legacy Hornet and SuperBug are different in their handling, especially in PA mode. So you cant just mix/match because they both have Hornet in their names.

Johan...

Yes, I'm VERY LUCKY to have gotten to sit the seat in the sim. Was a lot of fun.

Spaz...

Well, its not an issue for REAL WORLD Hornets as much as it is for us in FSX. The reason being that the real world has a COLLIMATED and CONFORMAL HUD with the designed wide view (hence the splayed out HUD brackets) and an eyepoint that is much more forward than the FSX Hornet. I'm guessing this was done for "pan-scan" ability or something? But the problem now becomes lack of view thru the HUD that would mimic real world and give us a far wider view of the HUD and sky. Ever fly the Aerosoft F-16? That is still the BEST HUD in FSX, IMO... because it mimics a real world HUD the best I've ever seen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZXR_z9wR6Q (crank up to 720p, and look at how sharp the HUD is and how it projects out past the HUD glass)

The reason I bring this up is look at the eyepoint (notice how "high" it is in comparison) and how the HUD seems PROJECTED out into space. I know its an F-16, but this was my experience in the Hornet sim and a real world Hornet on the ground...  the Hornet sim draws the HUD directly on the projection screen, in essense does the same thing and you dont have to re-focus.

I've thought long and hard and I'm not trying to take away from carrier landings but I will strive to make an equal balance between dogfighting and carrier landing mods. The reason is I dont want the Sludge being JUST for carrier landings. I'm still working on the air pressure/air density ratio falloff mods that will make engines more realistic at higher altitudes at MIL power, so that I dont have to overpower the engines just to make the Sludge a dogfighter at med-high altitudes. Right now, the Sludge can dogfight just fine at 10k and below but starting around 15k and definately at 20k and above, there is an unrealistic power response fall off that is an inherent problem in FSX that some FSDeveloper guys have figured out a workaround solution.

Mike...

Thanks again.

When I got back, I tried working on the eyepoint problem myself but only came up with more problems than solutions. If you move the eyepoint forward and a little up, you have to change the HUD size to keep it conformal and then you have get the canopy bow getting really HUGE because as you move your eyepoint forward, the bow gets unreasonably big. I have no idea why? If you can handle those problems, then you gotta think about HUD readability at a distance and if the symbology needs to be artificially enlarged just to read it. So yes, I know those problems well. We may have to trade ideas via email and see if we cant get a middle-ground FSX solution to this?

CAPT...

Yes, I did some go's at the boat and they were so-so. I did a bad pattern, as the legacy is alot more "slushy" in PA than I'm used to, coming from the Sludge mods. And then doing a straight in, the best I could do was a four wire for all my passes. And some really bad (1000 fpm sink rate) 4 wires at that... the reason to me was, the throttle response AND good lord, the ball gets SUPER SENSITIVE IC. I was flying a solid ball, 'til I hit IC and then boom it shot straight up from cresting to top ball and I would almost IDLE just to get a 4 wire. Now I see why there is never a time that a pilot is NOT working the throttles. CONSTANT THROTTLE MANAGEMENT is the key.

Your picture hit the nail on the head. You can see how the AoA Indexer is very small and imbedded into the physical bracket. Also, how the HUD brackets seem "skinny" in comparison and dont have alot of inner 3d perspective changes, whereas the VC HUD has a massive 3d perspective change that takes away from viewpoint.

Victory103...

Yes, the sim time gave me a very new perspective, no doubt.

The UA and PA FCS modes were definately borne out of necessity because of the Hornet's behavior in those flight regimes. If those two different modes didn't exist, the Hornet would be good to fly in the UA and damn hear impossible to fly in the PA. The FCS seemed to fight/get sluggish when doing high AoA stuff or just pulling too many Gs and getting slow. I'm guessing Hornet pilots spend alot of time there to get comfy, so they really know the LIMs of the jet and dont get freaked out when she's slow or near departure.

Later
Sludge

Orion

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 753
Re: Sludge Hornet F/A-18
« Reply #47 on: March 26, 2012, 07:42:58 am »
Sounds like you had a good time! :D

What was the actual simulator like?  A full mock-up of the Hornet cockpit?  Just a screen in front, or was there a wrap-around projection?  Full motion?  How were the visuals compared to FSX? :P

Sludge

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1110
  • SQUEEZING EVERY NICKEL of life for all its worth!
    • SludgeHornet.NET
Re: Sludge Hornet F/A-18
« Reply #48 on: March 26, 2012, 09:03:58 am »
Orion...

It was just like the pentagonal setup that L3 runs. I think CAPT may have shown pictures of it here on a post? Yes, its a full up cockpit layout with all the switches/circuit breakers that work, and of course the stick and throttle. The HUD doesnt project like a real HUD, its simply "drawn" on the main forward screen and the others fill in the rest of the world around, full 360 deg coverage.

Here's an outside view:
http://www.aerotechnews.com/aeroventura/navy/F-A-18-trainers-receive-360-degree-high-definition-visual-system

Here's the actual sim view:
http://www.aviationnews.eu/2010/08/18/fa-18cd-toft-you%E2%80%99ve-come-a-long-way-baby/
(if you look just left of the HUD physical brackets, on the main screen, you can see the HUD symbology projected on there; it says C/D trainer, but it has a E/F setup... they are the same basic trainer tho)

The visuals were a little more simplistic than FSX and one of the other guys (forget his name) said that its not really good for dogfighting, mostly for practicing procedural stuff (group maneuvering, carrier stuff, IFEs). The visual recognition is a big problem and thats a big deal when it comes to dogfighting... think FSX when its draw distance gets cranked down and you cant spot other aircraft quickly because its not in range to be drawn. Not the place you want to be when looking for the other guy who's trying to kill you. Classic fighter pilot axiom: lose sight, lose the fight.

Hope this helps.

Later
Sludge
« Last Edit: March 26, 2012, 09:56:38 am by Sludge »

GOONIE

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 483
Re: Sludge Hornet F/A-18
« Reply #49 on: March 26, 2012, 06:16:31 pm »
Sludge,

Thanks for the feedback, I know what you mean about ball flying in the sim, sounds similar to my experience in the Super Hornet sim. I also agree with the lack in graphics, the sim in Oceana was not very impressive. The water, clouds, and aircraft carrier looked extremely basic (not many details or eye candy) in the sim, FSX's Javier Nimitz and REX look a heck of a lot better in my opinion and was noticeable when I flew my rig back at the house following the sim experience. However, having a real cockpit and controls, dome projected world, with a very precise/accurately simulated IFOLS is second to none. Check out this company, http://www.cyberdome.com/mil/f18.html  in case anyone has some extra money lying around  ;D

Also did a side by side comparison pic for the eyepoint and HUD discussion.

-CAPT
"You've got to land here, son. This is where the food is."

Sludge

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1110
  • SQUEEZING EVERY NICKEL of life for all its worth!
    • SludgeHornet.NET
Re: Sludge Hornet F/A-18
« Reply #50 on: March 26, 2012, 08:52:40 pm »
CAPT...

No problem. Its funny how much a person's perspective changes once they hit the sim. It definately opens eyes. You're right tho, in the big picture, Id rather have flight dynamics/realistic world behaviors/carrier ops over eye-candy any day of the week.

Fellas...

I have an idea that might work for the HUD glass projection plane? If anybody is good at modding the layout/black alpha layers of the main $fa18.dds (at work; not sure of exact nomenclature), we might be able to get it the correct size of the VC HUD "glass". This would help alleviate the problems of moving the eyepoint and losing projection space at the top of the HUD "glass" where it closes together and allow us to project symbology higher on the glass plane... just like CAPTs picture.

Later
Sludge

SUBS17

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 811
Re: Sludge Hornet F/A-18
« Reply #51 on: March 26, 2012, 10:22:36 pm »
Since PA is operational when the gear is lowered and UA is when the gear is up perhaps a separate file could be used for each. eg one FM file for gear down and a second for when gear is up. As for Hornet FM data you should seriously ask Mavjp as he used NASA wind tunnel data for the latest BMS F-16 FM. And we know that NASA had a Hornet so there must be similar data out there for the Hornet. BTW BMS are working on a Hornet by the looks for BMS so you could help each other out in exchange ideas etc.

Sludge

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1110
  • SQUEEZING EVERY NICKEL of life for all its worth!
    • SludgeHornet.NET
Re: Sludge Hornet F/A-18
« Reply #52 on: March 27, 2012, 04:01:39 am »
SUBS...

Quote
Since PA is operational when the gear is lowered and UA is when the gear is up perhaps a separate file could be used for each. eg one FM file for gear down and a second for when gear is up.

Actually, it would be great if it worked like this but its doesnt. Jimi and I have been working on approximating a PA and UA mode, but again... its not about simply incorporating FM data into the Hornet. Its about trying to integrate it WITH and sometimes AGAINST the baseline .DLL file.

Plus, I already have Ave Joe's (Delta Hornet Test WSO) numbers.

Later
Sludge

Hominid

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: Sludge Hornet F/A-18
« Reply #53 on: November 17, 2012, 09:13:16 pm »
Question for you Sludge: I've been flying your bird for a while now, and thoroughly enjoy it, particularly for the FPM and AOA indicator. I've a question though about the flight characteristics, specifically taking off & landing - they both seem to use far less runway than in real life. After researching the minimum distance requirements for landing, I came up with a requirement between 3 to 4,000 feet for landing, depending on conditions, amount of fuel, temperature etc. An F-18 pilot I'm in communication with says 3,900 feet; his supervisor says to allow for 6,000. But with your F-18, I can land and brake in less than 1,000 feet.  Seems like the brakes are on steroids! Any insight?

Thanks in advance

H

Sludge

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1110
  • SQUEEZING EVERY NICKEL of life for all its worth!
    • SludgeHornet.NET
Re: Sludge Hornet F/A-18
« Reply #54 on: November 30, 2012, 06:10:00 am »
Hominid...

Yes, the brakes are ON STEROIDs. Its one of the default FSX Hornet stuff that I barely mess with... at this point. Considering your input, I'll probly look into it for Sludge v2.0, along with other fixes in-conjunction with JIMIs FSXBA Hornet fixes and XMLs.

Keep in mind that we (FSX default Hornet modders) were happy to get the braking problem fixed but I will be more than happy to delve into this discrepancy as I get more time for the holiday season coming up. As I dont have a family, during the holidays I get MORE TIME to mod instead of LESS time, so I'll make it a point to incorporate your observations into my test/modding cycles. Thanks for the critiques/questions.

Later
Sludge


Hominid

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: Sludge Hornet F/A-18
« Reply #55 on: November 30, 2012, 02:36:48 pm »
FYI - I did find the parameter in the config file and changed it from 1.0 to 0.35  -  I now land (with brakes full on) in just under 3,000 feet.

Sludge

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1110
  • SQUEEZING EVERY NICKEL of life for all its worth!
    • SludgeHornet.NET
Re: Sludge Hornet F/A-18
« Reply #56 on: November 30, 2012, 10:00:34 pm »
Hominid...

FYI - I did find the parameter in the config file and changed it from 1.0 to 0.35  -  I now land (with brakes full on) in just under 3,000 feet.

That's good you tweak like that... as I tell people here, I'm more than happy when you guys do your own tweaking and share it with everyone. You can take what works for you and use it as you wish. That being said, I'll try to look at the .AIR file and see if there's a modifyable ramp table for the brakes because at 0.35 scalar, you wont be able to "hold station" when you run up the engines even to MIL power, you'll notice you'll start to "break free" and start rolling forward. The reason I increased braking power was to give better holding power to the brakes when running up the engines and trying to stay put.

Will let you know how that goes, so that if it does work, you'll get the proper rollout on landing but be able to hold station with a MIL power run-up, then release brakes and take off.

Later
Sludge

Hominid

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: Sludge Hornet F/A-18
« Reply #57 on: December 01, 2012, 03:32:24 am »
Hominid...

FYI - I did find the parameter in the config file and changed it from 1.0 to 0.35  -  I now land (with brakes full on) in just under 3,000 feet.

That's good you tweak like that... as I tell people here, I'm more than happy when you guys do your own tweaking and share it with everyone. You can take what works for you and use it as you wish. That being said, I'll try to look at the .AIR file and see if there's a modifyable ramp table for the brakes because at 0.35 scalar, you wont be able to "hold station" when you run up the engines even to MIL power, you'll notice you'll start to "break free" and start rolling forward. The reason I increased braking power was to give better holding power to the brakes when running up the engines and trying to stay put.

Will let you know how that goes, so that if it does work, you'll get the proper rollout on landing but be able to hold station with a MIL power run-up, then release brakes and take off.

Later
Sludge

Ah - that makes sense. So - makes me wonder about the FSX engine itself, that there isn't the granularity to differentiate between the two. I guess the digital emulation world != analogue world... Keep me posted, and let me know if there's anything I can help you with.

GOONIE

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 483
Re: Sludge Hornet F/A-18
« Reply #58 on: December 13, 2012, 04:50:42 pm »
Sludge,
One feature I added to your bird is a work around for HUD brightness on the 2D HUD. I added another window [09] in the Panel.cfg file that duplicates the 2D HUD lines, but uses a lower alpha blend value. I do this to have a day time HUD brightness, alpha blend = 0.95 for window [00], and a night time HUD brightness, alpha blend = 0.30 for window [09], which allows me to now change the brightness in FSX and not have to tweak the panel file before night flights. Basically, I can switch back and forth between day time and night time HUD brightness.

Anyways thought I would share for those who fly at night and need to dim the HUD brightness on the 2D HUD.

GOONIE
"You've got to land here, son. This is where the food is."

Sludge

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1110
  • SQUEEZING EVERY NICKEL of life for all its worth!
    • SludgeHornet.NET
Re: Sludge Hornet F/A-18
« Reply #59 on: December 13, 2012, 09:33:56 pm »
Goonie...

Good idea and good work. Yeah, I just bought most of the parts for a semi-new rig and did the breakdown last night, so I'm replying from work. I got a ddr3/sata2 mobo, 16gb ram (to help with FSX), evga GTX 660 (for shooter games), and should be back up and running in a day or two.

Figures I do this now, and we got some really good stuff happening on the boards like Orion's pitch/weave carrier mod.

Later
Sludge