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When do I turn for final in the pattern?

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Razgriz:
I've gotten various responses, some 1.6 on the TCN, some when Abeam, I'm just not sure.  When do I initiate my turn to final on a 600 foot pattern and what altitude (radar of course) do I descend to to get a perfect glide slope going?

SpazSinbad:
Can you tell us what the weather conditions are please? WOD and ship speed would be helpful. Is the wind straight down the angle deck? All these things are important.

I have read that USN Hornet pilots more or less fly an instrument first half of the base turn to get the right conditions for the visual start on meatball etc. They have the instruments to do that. However it is possible to do it all visually even if you are not exactly on the circuit numbers as per whatever book you wish to read. Sludge had a good guide a few weeks ago now on another thread.

Even if you tell me what the weather is like at your carrier it would make no difference as long as the wind is down the angle. Lots of different advice on various threads (old ones now) in this forum. Personally I prefer to fly a visual circuit with help from instruments though but not based solely on instruments.

Sludge has good gouge on these issues I reckon.  ;D

Just to mess up these issues I have read that it is forbidden to go below 450 feet during base turn without seeing the ball. Something to keep in mind if you are doing an instrument turn. In real world it is possible to start flying the ball after about halfway round base turn so it is worth looking for the ball during the turn to fly it as early as possible. Also it is good to see the horizon and your height AMSL just for the fun in that. [Rather than having a submarine view.]

sun444:
You could take a look at this

Sludge:
Raz...

In FSX, in a carrier pattern, after the Abeam call, continue on the RECIPROCAL of Base Recovery Course (BRC is ships course, not the Angled Deck in the linked video) for six seconds, then start a 30 deg AoB turn.  I would say if you are at THE 90 (TACAN steering arrow directly above the v/vector and pointing left) and at/less than 1.4 TCN around 550 AGL (Radar ALT), you will be setup for a good rollout.  If you are rolling out long, anything more than 1.2 on the TACAN and lined up on the Angled Deck, fly another pattern and use five seconds.  Keep doing this til your rollout onto final is anywhere between 1.0 and 1.2 TCN.  Using 6 seconds after the Abeam call and working backward til you get the desired TCN should be the quickest way to get you to a decent rollout distance regardless of your WoD.

Disregard the video Sun linked on this post because the numbers and methodology are wrong.  Which is a bummer, cause the guy who did it put together a very well produced video.  Dont get me wrong, you can use it and it might work for FSX for him or others, however the By-The-Book Naval Aviation pattern is not based on the Angled Deck but on the Ships Course.  The NEW HUD is setup that when you plug in the 47X/57X TCN, it automatically reads the ship's heading into NAV1.  So you simply set your HUD up the way you want using the shift-2 HUD Control panel, then you click on the Steer switch to Nav1.  Youll see this confirmed if you line up on Cat 2 and your Steering Arrow is just to the side of velocity vector and pointing straight up.  Also, as you cross "THE 45" and ship's wake, the TCN Steer Arrow will cross from upper right of your v/vector to the lower left.  The picture Ive included should spell it out in better visual detail.  Remember tho, as the picture is named "STATIONARY carrier", you cannot use the 15-20 second delay to turn from the Abeam call.  Also, the 475 ft at the 90 is OFF because the FSX carrier Meatball's and NEW HUD ICLS GlideSlope needles are set for a 4.0 G/S and not the more commonly used 3.5 G/S.  Other than those discrepancies, its a good depiction of what you should expect to see.

Hope I helped and didnt confuse more.
Later
Sludge

SpazSinbad:
Sludge, Thanks - great diagram. Did you intend to show a LOW RED BALL?!   ;D  WaveOff WaveOff WaveOff!

I'll understand how people need precision but they should adjust to fly visual approaches once they get past the 90 degree point during base turn IMHO. Over reliance on these great instruments in FSX will not lead to a good outcome as Sludge is suggesting (due to discrepancies) BUT for getting to the correct START for a carrier approach it is a good start.

Generally (not pointing to any individual on this forum) from my reading of other forums my impression is that people expect FSX carrier landings to be easy. Carrier landings require practice. Why not practice ashore doing FCLP with visual runway landings (or if you can manage to set up a runway mirror as some people seem to have done - PROJECT anyone?) then take that practice out to the FSX carrier for a better result perhaps. I'll imagine that people go to the carrier without any practice and that they become very frustrated by lack of success. Yes it is difficult but rewarding. No? Plenty of advice on this forum on the threads (often misnamed but carrier landing advice is there nevertheless).

News to me about using BRC reciprocal as downwind heading - fair enough as long as a consistent pattern is flown and then adjusted as necessary, as Sludge is suggesting. Then Practice Practice Practice.

Sludge is correct (if video is the same or similar as the TACAN video). There is no need to work out any airspeeds. Use the AoA indications for correct approach parameters (under the maximum AUW). And yes there are limitations because this is a simulator on a PC on a small screen so be patient with this aspect of it all. Happy Landings.

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