Problem with latest FSDT live update from 10.06.20. - SOLVED -

[andypanda]

Dear Umberto,

On Tuesday morning 09.06.20. I made a flight from LSZH to LFMN with a PMDG B-737-800 WL
As usual I always run the FSDT live update before starting the simulator (P3d V4.5).
Everything was updated and the flight went without any problems as it has been for a long time.
I was able to use GSX as usual with all the possibilities.

On Wednesday morning 10.06.20. I prepared everything for a flight with the same aircraft from LFMN to LKPR.
Again I ran FSDT live update and once updated (complete), I started the P3d V4.5 simulator as usual. So far no problems.

I am running 3 monitors for the main display (cockpit) on a Nvidia GeForce GTX 980 graphic card.
A fourth, separate monitor for undocked windows (for example CDU or vPilot Host) is running alone on a Nvidia GeForce GTX 970 graphic card.

As I undocked the CDU window and moved it to the fourth monitor, the frame rates which were around 60 dropped sharply to betwenn 2 and 3!!
I moved the undocked window back into the main display and again I had the 60 FPS.

First I thought that a windows office update from the same morning had caused the problem.
I restored Windows with the last restoration point from the morning before the updates, and started the simulator and everything was ok. (So I had the same situation as the day before).

Then I exited the simulator, disabled Windows update, ran FSDT live update and made a new restoring point.

With the newest FSDT live update (no new Windows updates) I had again the above described problem with the undocked window on the fourth monitor and the low FPS.

I restored Windows again with the good restore point, made all the windows udates and the simulator is running smoothly.
I can move the undocked windows on any of the 4 monitors without loosing any frames.

So it seems quite obvious that the latesdt FSDT live update from 10.06.20. is causing some sort of a problem.

I am running now the simulator without GSX, which of course is not giving me the opportunity to use it with jetways, passengers, bagage and so on.

Umberto, can you please check what it could be, and do you need further input from my side?

Thank you.

Andy

[frantzy]

Andy I have precisely the same issue as you.  Will provide more details tomorrow but wanted to validate that it came after applying the same FSDT update with the same PMDG multi monitor setup.

Mike

[andypanda]

Hi Mike

Thank you for letting me know, so it's not just me with this issue.

I wrote Umberto a message, no reply so far.

Let's see if we get some help.

Best regards.
Andy

[part-time-punk]

Hi Andy,

Have a look at this thread:  https://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=131642

Disabling Nvidia In-Game Overlay (in Nvidia Experience Options) and Windows Game Bar has fixed this problem for other people.

Cheers,

Dave.

[virtuali]

Then I exited the simulator, disabled Windows update, ran FSDT live update and made a new restoring point.

Nothing in the latest update could possible have any effect on this, since we haven't changed anything that has any relationship with rendering. Your restore point must have restored another setting that changed before the update, so you are mislead thinking it has something to do with it.

The issue with low fps when undocking gauges on another screen in P3D is very well known, is not related in any way to GSX, and there are several solution, as posted above.

In any case, I tried it now, with a Wacom Cintiq graphic tablet (which is touch-screen external 4K monitor), and I couldn't see any significant drop in fps, when undocking the PMDG 737 MCDU over the tablet. It even works with the touch, so I can press the MCDU button with the finger!

I tried with the nVidia GeForce esperience overlay enabled or disabled, no difference, no fps loss when undocking in either way.

I tried with the Windows Gamebar showing the fps overlay enabled or disabled, no difference, no fps loss when undocking in either way.

Tried with PFD, ND and MCDU all undocked to the second screen, no difference and no fps loss. Made a complete flight from LIMC to LSZH, no problems.

[frantzy]

I found a thread discussing an issue with a recent Windows 10 updates affecting older nvidia gpus, could be a route to investigate.

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/576021-windows-10-2004-bsod-on-startup-after-updating-from-1909/?do=findComment&comment=4253371

Umberto, the part I don’t understand about a longstanding known issue with undocked gauges is that I’ve flown this way from FSX, and since the inception of P3D thru now (v4.5), several flights per week, never had this issue until the past couple days.

[andypanda]

Hi Umberto,


Thank you for your reply.

I have tried the same things as you, tried with the nVidia GeForce experience overlay enabled or disabled, no difference, no fps loss when undocking in either way (without GSX).

The only time I have a big FPS loss is when I make the FSDT live update.

Starting P3D V4.5 with GSX enabled everything works fine, great FPS, GSX as normal, jetways, passengers, bagage and so on, no problems.

I can undock and move several windows on the main display (3 monitors on a Nvidia GeForce GTX 980 graphic card), still everything is great.

As soon as I move any of the the undocked windows to the fourth monitor (running alone on a Nvidia GeForce GTX 970 graphic card), I get the sharp drop in FPS fom around 60 to 2-3 FPS.

As soon as I move the undocked windows back onto the main display everything runs again super.

When I go back to the old restore point from Tuesday morning 09.06.20., (without GSX), everything is ok again, I can move undocked windows to the fourth display, no FPS loss whatsoever.

The only setback is that I have no GSX available to use it with jetways, passengers, bagage and so on.

I am at a loss, don't know what else to do.

As I described in my first post everything was working great since I bought the Prepar3D v4 Professional License in December 2018 until Wednesday morning 10.06.20. when I ran FSDT live update.

I did no Windows or programm updates of any sort between Tuesday and Wednesday, and only with GSX activated I have the problem.

I am not blaming you and your programm, just looking for help on how to solve this.


Best regards.
Andy

[virtuali]

As soon as I move any of the the undocked windows to the fourth monitor (running alone on a Nvidia GeForce GTX 970 graphic card), I get the sharp drop in FPS fom around 60 to 2-3 FPS.

I think with two different graphic card, it's an entirely different issue. Again, nothing that I can imagine could be cause by GSX and, surely not the latest update, since if it really was related to GSX, it should always happened.

Of course, it's not really "GSX", maybe the fact GSX use the Render To Texture feature from the P3D4 SDK to render using DirectX inside textures, to create logo and Fonts more efficiently than it use to in FSX. We have been using this method in P3D 4.4 since GSX L2 came out and nothing in the latest update has change anything in that.

If the Render to Texture feature of the P3D4 SDK had a problem with a 4th monitor connected to a 2nd card, it would have been like this since 2018, when GSX L2 came out. We know there are issues with SLI, maybe this is related to it, but there's not much we can do from GSX, other than not using that feature, and of course we gave the option, since you can disabled it from the Addon Manager. You'll lose operator logos and font displays ( jetway numbers, for example ), but at least you will know it was that.

[andypanda]

Hi Mike,

Thank you for your input with the win10 updates and Issue with older drivers for Nvidia display adapters (GPU).
I am not running Windows 10.

My system is:

Windows 7 Ultimate, Service Pack 1 - 64 bit operating system

Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5930K CPU @ 3.50 GHz processor

Installed memory - 16.0 GB PC4-19200 DDR4 SDRAM

1 Nvidia GeForce GTX 980 graphic card with 4096 MB GDDR5 SDRAM - latest Nvidia driver 446.14 - using this card with 3 monitors in suround mode for the cockpit.

1 Nvidia GeForce GTX 970 graphic card with 4096 MB GDDR5 SDRAM - latest Nvidia driver 446.14 - using this card with 1 monitor for undocked windows from the P3d V4.5 or vPilot.

2 SATA Samsung SSD PRO 1 TB drives (1 for the windows operating system, 1 for the flight simulator).

1 SATA WDC WD30EFRX - 68 EUZN0 3000GB HD to store music, pictures, and so on.

[andypanda]

Dear Umberto,


Thank you for your last reply, it solved the issue! 

I used the FSDT live update and started the simulator.

In the addon manager I disabled RTT, restarted P3D V4.5, and now everything works again as before. I can move undocked windows to the fourth display, no FPS loss whatsoever.

Why this is like this I don't know, I never changed anything in the addon manager.

Anyway, thank you for your patience and your help.


Have a nice weekend. 
Andy

[frantzy]

For comparative troubleshooting purposes, my system is:

Windows 10 Build 1809

Intel i7-8086K CPU @ 4.00 GHz

Installed memory - 16.0 GB

1 Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080Ti graphic card latest Nvidia driver 446.14 - using this card with 2 monitors not in suround mode (1 for main external view, 1 for undocked lower DU 2d pop out)

1 Nvidia GeForce GTX 750Ti graphic card latest Nvidia driver 446.14 - using this card with 2 monitors for undocked 2d instrument panel windows from the P3d V4.5

__

For me, the exact same situation as Andy.   Dragging an undocked window to the monitors with the main graphic card, no problem; to the other graphic card's monitors, FPS drops to about 2.   Disabling RTT fixed it - thank you!   On the other hand, I loved the matching logos in GSX.

I have been using GSX since 2016 and GSX2 since Sep 2019, with multiple graphics cards in this setup, never disabling RTT before, and always staying current with updates.  Never had this issue until 2 days ago.  

Full disclosure, I of course have numerous aircraft, sceneries, tools, hardware, but the only updates this week were a new rudder and a couple ORBX fixes.   (Contrary to my prior post in this thread, I am actually 2 updates behind the latest Win 10 build, but also not running old drivers anyway).

But thrilled to be operational again with the workaround - thank you Andy and Umberto.

Mike

[psyrax]

Thank you for posting this.

I also ran into the issue where the FPS dropped down to ~3 FPS when I moved any pop out screens for the FSLabs to my second screen on a second GPU after the latest update.

Disabling RTT restored the FPS to what it was previously.

[part-time-punk]

Thank you so much guys for this - I had this problem and disabling RTT in the Addon Manager fixed it.

I know it's not caused by GSX, but which developer should we contact to investigate this?

Microsoft, Nvidia, Lockheed Martin ??

Stay well everyone,

Dave.

[virtuali]

I know it's not caused by GSX, but which developer should we contact to investigate this?

Microsoft, Nvidia, Lockheed Martin ??

No idea what the problem is. The reason why RTT can be disabled, is precisely to prevent these problems.

[kessler]

Hi Umberto,

I'd just like to say that I have experienced the very same problem with FSDT/GSX latest update, after years of having no problems. It started about 4 days ago after FSDT told me to update.  I'd like to suggest that the first thing to point out to any other sufferers is to turn off the RTT in the Addon manager.  I have no idea what RTT is or does and never even noticed it before, but disabling this did away with the problem.

I only found out about turning off the RTT by reading through the posts - I have read quite a few that sounded like a similar problem to mine and the guys in this post, but the first thing you seem to start by saying is that its not an FSDT or GSX problem.  Had you then gone on to suggest disabling the RTT then that would have saved my a lot of messing about, including uninstalling GSX and then reinstalling.

Like the guys above, my fps dropped from 40 down to just 2 ! which rendered my flight sim useless.  I uninstalled Addon Manager and GSX and the framerates went back to normal.  Reinstalling caused them to drop back down to 2 (when dragging pop ups and new windows to other monitors that is), and as said, then disabling the RTT has fixed the issue.

Regards,

Rory