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Author Topic: Floating Buildings  (Read 6073 times)
virtuali
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« Reply #45 on: August 24, 2019, 01:59:57 PM »

I can't activate Check live update theres a black screen with this message " The remote server returned invalid data"

Even if you run the Live Update outside the simulator, with the sim closed ? Which you must do it anyway, since there are some .BGL that have been changed, and it's not usually possible to update a .BGL while the sim is running, and also a new Simobject has been added, which also requires a simulator restart.

Basically, the only updates that can be safely done from within the sim, are GSX code updates, since they are entirely external and unknown to the sim (they are programs that runs inside the Couatl engine), so the simulator won't try to lock them.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2019, 02:02:05 PM by virtuali » Logged

Terblanche
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« Reply #46 on: August 24, 2019, 02:01:37 PM »

Have you already installed the update we published this morning ? That is supposed to fix the flying T5.

Basically, the lower the resolution, the more the LOD seems to be aggressive (they are always the same in the scenery), and this is also combined with the zoom level, which we always tune for 0.70. The goal here was trying to prevent loading too much detail for terminals you are not located on.


After the latest update via FSDT Live Update it seems to have fixed the 'problem' and on the same flight (KATL/KBOS), same weather as last night, and doing a low flypast, there were no buildings floating anywhere. Great job for solving this!!

Now that this is sorted out .... any reason why the stuttering (pauses) are so frequent over this scenery?? It's terrible and worse than anywhere else (including EGLL, EDDF, KBOS, or KSFO). Throwing all sliders to the left make NO difference at all ... it pauses, and stutters ... although the FPS are good and only drops when it stutters. What is so desperately trying to load in the background?? The above mentioned flight took off from KATL and there are almost NO stutters even with AI and thunderstorm clouds all over the place but once you arrived at Chicago it be.. be.. becomes a sc... sce.. scene... scenery slide... show while FPS are locked at 35

My rig: i7 7700 @ 4.2 with 32GB RAM on a GTX1080Ti with settings mode=3840x2160x32 on a 4K monitor



« Last Edit: August 24, 2019, 02:03:36 PM by Terblanche » Logged

Terblanche Jordaan
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virtuali
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« Reply #47 on: August 24, 2019, 02:14:15 PM »

After the latest update via FSDT Live Update it seems to have fixed the 'problem' and on the same flight (KATL/KBOS), same weather as last night, and doing a low flypast, there were no buildings floating anywhere. Great job for solving this!!

Thank you for your report. Now I'm sorry but, I cannot resist from saying:

Couatl engine to the rescue, again!

Because, what really happened here is:

- People didn't like the fact all our sceneries were mostly made as Simobjects, because this caused long pauses when the scenery loaded. We always explained (and of course it was true), we required them to be like this, because the .BGL file format prevented us from doing any interactivity, and we could sidestep some of the simulator issues by using Simobjects.

- Since the .BGL format in P3D4 is way more interactive (allowing LUA scripting, for example) and there are no problems anymore with ground polygon layers, we decided to do O'Hare using mostly the standard .BGL format, which would reduce loading pauses, since the scenery would load in the background in multi-threading, and this scenery didn't had to keep the baggage of having to run in FSX too.

- The "floating objects bug" affects only objects in .BGL. We could seen the T5 details flying in our testing, so we already released that one as a Simobject. We could never reproduce the floating main T5 terminal body ( I still can't, on *both* my systems, a PC and a Laptop ).

- We fixed this by converting the main T5 body into a Simobject too, giving the responsibility of its creation back to the Couatl engine...


Quote
Now that this is sorted out .... any reason why the stuttering (pauses) are so frequent over this scenery?? It's terrible and worse than anywhere else (including EGLL, EDDF, KBOS, or KSFO). Throwing all sliders to the left make NO difference at all ... it pauses, and stutters ... although the FPS are good and only drops when it stutters. What is so desperately trying to load in the background??

I don't have any stuttering, the only pause I can see, is when GSX jetways are loaded, about 7.5 NM out, which we increased over the normal GSX default, for the precise reason to move the loading pause away from the final approach phase.

Check your VRAM usage with the default Performance monitor in the Task Manager, under the GPU page, and see how much free VRAM you have. Also, do you see the VRAM usage going up/down in spike when you see stuttering ?

And, do you see black textures coming in and out ? That's the simulator aggressively trying to save texture memory, by trashing all textures he thinks they are no longer required.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2019, 02:40:20 PM by virtuali » Logged

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« Reply #48 on: August 24, 2019, 02:36:25 PM »


I don't have any stuttering, the only pause I can see, is when GSX jetways are loaded, about 7.5 NM out, which we increased over the normal GSX default, for the precise reason to move the loading pause away from the final approach phase.

Check your VRAM usage with the default Performance monitor in the Task Manager, under the GPU page, and see how much free VRAM you have. Also, do you see the VRAM usage going up/down in spike when you see stuttering ?

And, do you see black textures coming in and out ? That's the simulator aggressively trying to save texture memory, by trashing all textures he thinks they are no longer required.

I've checked that on my last flight ... the 1080Ti is running cool as a breeze and fluctuate between 10% and 20% VRAM used. The CPU runs high but that's normal for P3D and here is the funny thing >>>> there is a stutter and only THEN does it spike and then another stutter and then back to normal
Because of the massive Chicago area there are as suspected some loading issues but nothing less or more than say San Francisco for example where there is also some [micro]pauses but not nearly as many as Chicago. NO I haven't seen "black textures" ...
Could also be that the whole area (like Toronto and London) is just $hitty optimised and even with vanilla default scenery the performance fall to a decimal.

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Terblanche Jordaan
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virtuali
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« Reply #49 on: August 24, 2019, 02:57:12 PM »

I've checked that on my last flight ... the 1080Ti is running cool as a breeze and fluctuate between 10% and 20% VRAM used.

This is weird in a different way. It seems a bit low. Is as if the simulator or the driver, doesn't even try to use all your VRAM. I have a 1080Ti too, and while sitting on runway 10C at KORD, I have the following figures, with DD Chicago City X installed too and sitting on 10C, I can see the detailed Chicago Skyline in the background.

- With a default aircraft and 0% AI, I have 5.5 GB out of 11.0GB of VRAM used, with GPU utilization at 55% and CPU utilization at 30%

- With a default aircraft and 100% AI from UT Live, I have 5.6 GB out of 11.0GB of VRAM used, with GPU utilization at 39% and and CPU utilization at 30%

- With a PMDG 747-400 and no AI, I have 6.4 GB out of 11.0GB of VRAM used, with GPU utilization at 44% and and CPU utilization at 30%

- With a PMDG 747-400 and 100% AI from UT Live, I have 6.4 GB out of 11.0GB of VRAM used, with GPU utilization at 32% and and CPU utilization at 30%

What might seem to be odd, that with full AI traffic, the GPU is less occupied than with no traffic, might possibly be explained with this: when the system is less taxed by other stuff, like AI, the GPU is free to do more of its own stuff, like running Shaders, so it's being used more.

In general, is healthy to have a medium-high GPU utilization, it means the graphic products you are using DO take advantage of the GPU, and a fully PBR scenery like this surely will. It's just important you don't get in a situation the GPU is *too* stressed out. If the usage is higher than 90%, you'll probably know it's time to lower your settings.

But you also don't want it to be too low either, because it means the application is not taking much advantage of the GPU, so it all fall back on the CPU. Which seems confirmed in your case, since you have a much lower GPU utilization compared to mine, but a much higher CPU utilization.

Have you maybe tweaked something in the AffinityMask settings ? I have everything default, and I disabled HT in the BIOS, which seems to be the best choice for P3D4, especially when stuttering is concerned.
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Terblanche
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« Reply #50 on: August 24, 2019, 03:31:56 PM »

I try my best to stay away as far as possible from any tweaks although the FFTF (0.15) does have a positive influence on performance and I haven't had any problems with it at any other scenery. Since FSX I don't see any reason to use AffinityMask except if you love the blurries.
The scenery for Chicago has ORBX Global, ORBX USA_LC, ORBX trees and ORBX new buildings.
My UT_LIVE is on 70%

I'll make a more detailed notes when I fly into KORD next time because after doing almost 10 flights to and from KORD to try and fix the floating buildings, I need a break and fly somewhere else for a while.
 Grin




« Last Edit: August 24, 2019, 03:45:05 PM by virtuali » Logged

Terblanche Jordaan
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« Reply #51 on: August 24, 2019, 03:46:15 PM »

I try my best to stay away as far as possible from any tweaks although the FFTF (0.15) does have a positive influence on performance and I haven't had any problems with it at any other scenery.

Yes, it's true that it increases fps, but the side effect is that, the more you lower it down, the more the stuttering increases. Try removing the tweak altogether, and see if you have any difference.
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Terblanche
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« Reply #52 on: August 24, 2019, 06:00:33 PM »

I try my best to stay away as far as possible from any tweaks although the FFTF (0.15) does have a positive influence on performance and I haven't had any problems with it at any other scenery.

Yes, it's true that it increases fps, but the side effect is that, the more you lower it down, the more the stuttering increases. Try removing the tweak altogether, and see if you have any difference.

Okay, I've deleted it and did a flight from KBUF/KORD and sorry to say the stuttering is still there and maybe my imagination but it's worse.
Here is what I saw on GPU/CPU performance:
1. 30nm from KORD: CPU = 84% and GPU = 44% {VRAM=2.8/11}
2. 15nm from KORD: CPU = 84% and GPU = 51% {VRAM=3.0/11}
3. 10nm from KORD: CPU = 85% and GPU = 51% {VRAM=3.5/11} >>> lot's of pauses
4. 5nm  from  KORD: CPU = 88% and GPU = 51% {VRAM=3.5/11} >>> even more pauses until touch down and then nothing!

Obviously for some reason, my setup does not utilise the GPU as it should and I have no idea how to change it.

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Terblanche Jordaan
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virtuali
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« Reply #53 on: August 24, 2019, 06:33:05 PM »

Do you have something like OrbX Vector ? That is known to increase CPU utilization a lot and, from my test, it seems the more the CPU is occupied, the less the GPU can do its job, which in fact makes sense.
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farman
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« Reply #54 on: August 24, 2019, 06:45:27 PM »

Hi,
  me too.
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Beancounter
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« Reply #55 on: August 24, 2019, 08:48:49 PM »

I just wanted to come back in to report I've done a flight in from KATL and all good for me as well, no floating buildings at T5.  Thanks for doing the temporary fix until LM releases the P3D4 fix.  I'm enjoying the work you've put into the project.  It's well worth it for me.  Happy customer.  Life is too short to get all up in arms about small things like software in the end a little patience yields results.

Thanks
Norm.
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Terblanche
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« Reply #56 on: August 24, 2019, 11:09:22 PM »

Do you have something like OrbX Vector ? That is known to increase CPU utilization a lot and, from my test, it seems the more the CPU is occupied, the less the GPU can do its job, which in fact makes sense.


I gave up on Vector long time ago. I'm simply too old, too tired, to constantly have to twiddle and fuzz about Vector and Scenery that disappears into a ditch or trench. It's a nice to have when you fly only VFR and mainly ORBX remote rural airports. For the rest it has become a pain in the hindquarters. Therefore - no VECTOR on my rig.
Just did a flight LYBE/EDDF and except for the 'normal' P3D micro-pauses from time to time it's nothing in comparison to Chicago with only a slight drop in FPS on short finals at EDDF. For all intents and purposes absolutely smooth. Surely if it is my rig and/or setup then the stutters should be everywhere especially with the same aircraft, over dense scenery, with all the bells and whistles of AI, weather, and the full nine yards of plugins.
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Terblanche Jordaan
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« Reply #57 on: August 25, 2019, 03:20:15 AM »

There is definitely something wrong with the elevation. Thought is was ORBX.... reverted back to default scenery to confirm. Same problem persists. At about 100ft AGL on final to rwy 10C the aircraft slams into the ground like it if the runway is sloped or something. Just like is hits a wall.

Had this on my first and only landing here on 10C as well. 
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Eric
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« Reply #58 on: August 25, 2019, 03:24:32 AM »

Hello, does this update fix the elevation issue at the runway threshold. All aircraft seem to bounce at 150AGL above all runway thresholds. Really annoying. Wondering if anyone can confirm this. Seems to be a big gap on the glidepath where it goes from 150ft to level ground instantly.

Nobody else except you reported this, and I couldn't reproduce it. Do you have other sceneries installed that might affect elevation in this area ?

Also, check your Mesh resolution setting, the scenery comes with its own high res mesh at 1mt/pixel so, if you want to see the proper detail, your resolution slider should be set to that level, which is the maximum amount.


Happened to me on 10C. Mesh set to 1m.
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Eric
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« Reply #59 on: August 25, 2019, 03:54:16 PM »

Hi, just installed the last FSDT Update, the floating buildings has vanished.
     Fulvio
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