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F-18 carrier brake problems

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SpazSinbad:
burner12, I'm happy to have an input and would welcome other input also. My experience was over 35 years ago in A4G Skyhawks but since then I think my memory for carrier flying has been good; while being enhanced now by thinking about these issues we discuss (generally). The internet is a marvellous place to find out stuff. There are lots of LSO publications available for free download, as has been indicated in other posts. However I understand that to 'understand them' may require some background information. Certainly I need that for 'how to fly the Hornet'. But I'll stress the carrier approach basics are the same.

Recently I'm only doing FCLP (with hook down because I need the AoA indexer working for me). I have not even thought about using the HUD so far. And I still need to install FSX. Frankly IMHO to learn carrier flying - using a less complicated aircraft - would be ideal. The freeware Goshawk T-45C is excellent. I have set up (in earlier iteration of FSX) a 30 knot westerly wind down RW 26 at NAS Nowra at dusk to simulate FCLP (but have some daylight scenery for video viewers to look at). The strong wind simulates the strong wind over the deck of a carrier; and also simulates the real conditions at Nowra in the late winter early spring.

Having a strong WOD to practice in at an airfield means that the approach ground speed will be slower and there will be an "apparent" (depending on where you turn base) longer approach to get things right. At moment the Goshawk will fly at about 10KIAS too slow (according to the specs) but 'how' it flies is excellent. Also it has a good AoA indexer to use - same as Hornet. I cannot even remember if it has a HUD because I don't use it. :-) It does have the 'HUD only view' which looks odd because of zoomed scenery but I don't fly using that - just demonstrate the view of it for viewers. These videos are at FileFront at: (a video may show the AoA indexer not working correctly - this was the test)
http://hosted.filefront.com/SpazSinbad/
OR: http://hosted.filefront.com/SpazSinbad/2116553

If you go to that page there are many videos of circuits both High Quality; or the same video in Low Quality for easier download. These are not meant for any teaching as 'how to deck land or FCLP' - they are just tests for various aspects of the sim and FRAPS etc. However sometimes I do manage to concentrate long enough on the AoA indexer to get it to show the doughnut.

When I have more time I'll attempt to make Hornet Videos but don't hold your breath. There are good videos out there. The one explaining 'how to carrier land the Hornet' made by the SimBlueAngels is excellent. I don't have the resources or skill to top that terrific effort. It is really good. Go watch that. :-) Download it so you can watch it over and over.

An earlier post on another thread on this forum had a NATOPS diagram illustrating the main points of a carrier circuit. However that is a lot to do in one sortie. I would recommend that not only do you do FCLP (without a mirror - unless you can arrange that) but that you also set up a sortie that has you starting on a long final to the carrier with sufficient fuel so that you start under the same conditions [dirty - ready to land with flaps & hook down, S/B out - on speed (doughnut)] and from that start 'well set up' you can practise over and over. You will see how variations affect the landing etc.

Back to your line up question. It has been awhile since I did a Hornet sim carrier landing. I have not done any of those TopGun approaches, if you talk about those. DO NOT WORRY about what the carrier is doing. It is irrelevant if you carry out my advice and that is: MLA - fly on the centreline as best you can at all times. Fly the doughnut (or whatever you see in the HUD) for Optimum Angle of Attack and of course fly the meatball as accurately as you can.

Now this is the problem to my mind about FSX or any carrier sim on a desktop. The view from the aircraft at a reasonable approach distance after line up is not clear. So a bit of 'deck spotting' will get you in the right position to then fly the meatball when you can see it. Nothing can be done about that except having a mirror in a separate window on your screen. For myself I have not got around to figuring out how to do that - it would be helpful - if you follow what I'm saying. That way you will have a clear view of the mirror even at a distance and you can, at the beginning of the approach, spend more time getting lined up and stay on speed (Optimum Angle of Attack remember). It is way to difficult to fly airspeed when it will always change as the aircraft weight changes to attain the OAoA. This angle of attack will get you aboard correctly, provided you are on centreline, and 'on the ball'.

If you are starting to the right of the wake so that you are on the angled centreline - and staying there - then you should have no trouble. All I can think of is that you have some rudder or rudder trim enabled to skew the aircraft to the right, or whatever, as you go down the centreline? The hornet must be trimmed properly in all axes. Try again to fly at a lower realism setting. Be successful with that and then start turning up the realism. No one expects anyone to hack deck landing straight away. OK. It is different - much different to anything else. And practise practise practise.
:-)

micro:
Having done it a couple times, I can tell you that it is purely speed related. Come in too fast = Spin out.

SpazSinbad:
microbrewst, do you use the HUD or AoA indexer? How would you use the HUD please? Thanks.

More pics including an 'at ramp' pic here: http://www.check-6.com/gallery/carriers_007.php

In the RF-8G 'at ramp' pic below USS Saratoga we can see the ball almost perfect with the datum lights either side not symmetrical, a feature of that mirror I guess? Spot on the centreline for lineup.

HUD Symbology is for the Super Hornet out of their NATOPS.

Now viewing this 8.5Mb .WMV video at URL below I can see the AoA indexer symbol according to NATOPS diagram (right hand side) above. Could never figure this out before. Sigh.

http://files.filefront.com/HUDhornetDLhiQlargewmv/;13541768;/fileinfo.html



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burner12:
Spaz would you agree with micro in that it's speed related? I start at about 155-162 then slow her down to 149. Also I don't know if the carriers in acceleration were designed to be flown from the right to line up on centerline. IMO they were designed so that you always flew centerline.

SpazSinbad:
burner12, I think I need input from others more knowledgeable and experienced with the Hornet in FSX Accelerator. I admit to not a lot of experience myself; but hope to remedy that soon enough.

I think there are some fundamental misunderstandings. First you must fly the appropriate Angle of Attack for your All Up Weight. If you do this your airspeed (if your aircraft is under the maximum AUW) is what the Optimum Angle of Attack says it is - then well and good. However to me the airspeed is irrelevant. What is relevant is the Optimum Angle of Attack - for your AUW - at that time. This OAoA will never vary. What will vary up and down with your AUW up and down will be the IAS correspondingly. However please do not fly using airspeed. I cannot stress that enough. Carrier pilots do not fly using the airspeed indicator. They fly using the OAoA indications.

At first I thought (as was the case in much older Navy aircraft) that it would be OK to use only the AoA indexer (not the HUD). But that was my ignorance about how the Hornet is flown in the USN today. Today I saw on one of the online LSO manuals that NOT having a HUD is considered an 'emergency'. :-) So there I have been trying to land a Hornet in a self-generated emergency (because I had no idea how to use the HUD properly). However now understanding that video of the HUD (from info today) it makes more sense to me perhaps to use the HUD. But again however I am very comfortable using the AoA indexer because that is all I know. OK? :-)

Using just airspeed is a NoNo unless that is the only way you can fly the Hornet for the moment. Please learn how to use the HUD. The diagram above on the right side shows where the AoA indexer is on the HUD. Keep that indicator centred (at least that is how I understand it - please someone correct me if I'm wrong here) to fly OAoA or otherwise use the AoA indexer (the red/green coloured chevrons and orange doughnut on the left side of the HUD).

IF you have the wrong airspeed for your AUW then you may be flying either TOO FAST or TOO SLOW compared to what the real airspeed should be at the Optimum Angle of Attack. Without you telling us what your 'all up weight' is at that time, then we cannot say what the Optimum angle of attack airspeed should be. I'm hoping you understand that point. However you should ignore the airspeed and fly the Optimum Angle of attack. Life is much easier then. Yes it will seem odd but everything about carrier landing is odd at the beginning. Don't be disappointed that you find it more difficult than you imagined. It is difficult and it is made more difficult by the many limitations in FSX particularly with a small screen with not a good view until you are in close. It is tough to do good carrier landings with a small screen simulator. No question.

Another point about flying airspeed (rather than angle of attack at optimum) is that if you are TOO FAST your nose is too low, the hook is higher than it should be in relation to the aircraft at otherwise the OAoA and you risk breaking the arrestor gear by being too fast for that AUW. OR you will just break the landing gear for the same reason. Using OAoA is like the saving thing about carrier approaches. It is different only in that no one refers to the correct airspeed, only to the Optimum Angle of Attack.

Conversely if you are TOO SLOW for your all up weight at that time your nose will be too high with the hook point being much lower than it should be. This is when you can catch the ramp with the hook or worse. Another danger is that you are closer to the stalling speed and if underpowered you are going to sink into a water landing. It happens. If you get all messed up then Wave Off and try again.

Please don't misunderstand what I'm saying about the angle centreline. Please line up on the angled centreline as soon as you can. Project that angled centreline from the stern of the carrier out to where you are - let us say a mile. At that distance you will be in a spot that is well to the right of the wake turbulence in the water generated by the carrier. This is in effect where the axial centreline of the carrier is. Do not line up on this incorrect centreline. Do not start your approach to the ship from over the wake. You are in the wrong position with a lot of work to get to the right to be on the angle centreline. OK?

So the rule of thumb is too 'cross the wake' during your base turn to be anywhere near the angled centreline. Do not start anywhere else. Start your approach on the angled centreline, on speed (which is always the Optimum Angle of Attack - NOT the indicated airspeed) and on glide path with the meatball centred if you can see it. Because of the limitations of the sim it is not easy to see the mirror so I guess everyone including me is deck spotting at the beginning but as soon as you can see the mirror use that as your reference.

Please practice ashore. Please practice from a constant good beginning from a start at 1-2 miles dirty so that you get experience doing the same approach start over and over. Please do a good start. Save that good start as a flight that you can go back to to practice over and over if you don't want to practice ashore. Practice practice practice. Did I say 'practice'? :-)

I might make mention that a carrier approach - to stay on glideslope (with the two other things always being good such as OAoA and angled centreline) you need to use the power lever a lot. Use it in small amounts from a good trimmed level flight dirty at OAoA. Anticipate as best you can to change more power to less power as you get back on glideslope. It is possible to add nose corrections to maintain the OAoA as you change the power. For every correction there will be another correction in the opposite direction that hopefully becomes smaller and smaller as you approach the carrier with the glideslope window for a good arrest also getting smaller and smaller. Do not make big corrections near the ship. Try to be on centreline at least with your aircraft fore and aft parallel to the angled deck fore and aft line.

Keep asking questions as required. I'll call it a night now.

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