General Category > Unofficial F/A-18 Acceleration Pack board
F-18 carrier brake problems
burner12:
--- Quote from: SpazSinbad on April 06, 2009, 03:47:45 pm ---
Please don't misunderstand what I'm saying about the angle centreline. Please line up on the angled centreline as soon as you can. Project that angled centreline from the stern of the carrier out to where you are - let us say a mile. At that distance you will be in a spot that is well to the right of the wake turbulence in the water generated by the carrier. This is in effect where the axial centreline of the carrier is. Do not line up on this incorrect centreline. Do not start your approach to the ship from over the wake. You are in the wrong position with a lot of work to get to the right to be on the angle centreline. OK?
So the rule of thumb is too 'cross the wake' during your base turn to be anywhere near the angled centreline. Do not start anywhere else. Start your approach on the angled centreline, on speed (which is always the Optimum Angle of Attack - NOT the indicated airspeed) and on glide path with the meatball centred if you can see it. Because of the limitations of the sim it is not easy to see the mirror so I guess everyone including me is deck spotting at the beginning but as soon as you can see the mirror use that as your reference.
Keep asking questions as required. I'll call it a night now.
--- End quote ---
Maybe I misunderstood you but you said to start about 1 mile out so when you line up on center you are already a little to the right of center but it will correct. Then you said to cross the wake. Wouldn't that mean you're starting less then a mile away? Sorry to keep pestering you. Let me know if you want to end the conversation.
SUBS17:
--- Quote from: burner12 on April 06, 2009, 02:56:03 pm ---Spaz would you agree with micro in that it's speed related? I start at about 155-162 then slow her down to 149. Also I don't know if the carriers in acceleration were designed to be flown from the right to line up on centerline. IMO they were designed so that you always flew centerline.
--- End quote ---
Still too fast try 135kts and also use the Carrier tutorial mission as the custom missions sometimes are less forgiving than carrier tutorial or practice mission.
SpazSinbad:
burner12, seems to me that subs17 is giving you good practical advice for your sim flying. Would not it be possible to save (at the start of a good setup practice approach) that start point to then start always for yourself over and over at that same start point to get good practice at carrier approaches without all the hoohaa inbetween? :-) Repetition starting with the same parameters is good because then you will notice variations and consequences after many repetitions.
Again I cannot comment on the 135 knots to use because to me that IAS depends on your AUW at the time to have Optimum Angle of Attack. Sorry to bang on about this aspect. However I acknowledge if you practise your carrier approaches at the same AUW and know what the correct IAS is for the correct OAoA then by all means if that is how you want to do it - use that correct IAS for that AUW. However try to make the transition to using either the AoA Indexer or the HUD AoA indexer when you can. Also I would recommend changing the glass on the HUD to clear (see other thread on this forum about this aspect).
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burner12, it is difficult to type sufficient words about a complicated process. At some point I have to assume that you are understanding what I'm typing here. So thanks for asking your question about the 'start point'.
Mostly I'm generalising and you have taken some phrases to be 'gospel'. I gather you are familiar with all the advice and content and content at other URLs mentioned on this forum. Please ensure that you download and view the FSXblueAngels video about 'how to do carrier landings'. It is an excellent introduction to all of it. If you are not able to download to view repeatedly this video for good understanding of it then let me know. Thanks.
There are several points on a carrier approach that are given names. 'Start' 'Middle' 'In Close' 'At (the) Ramp'. 'Start' is referring to when you are wings level at about 1.5 miles for example on glidepath on speed on the centreline. That is the ideal start point although EXACTLY what the ideal start might be for the Hornet I do not claim to know. This is a suggestion from me.
Go to the start point by whatever means you wish so that you are there dirty - trimmed and ready to land.
You could get there by doing a circuit & base turn. Or fly there from any direction but that can be difficult because it is difficult to see the carrier from any distance at low level in the FSX sim. Also in real life - that is why jets do 'break entries' to downwind/base for a carrier landing during the daytime. Night time it is different.
Other threads have the NATOPS Hornet Carrier Circuit diagram. Please save this diagram to your computer so that you can study it, or print it out to have it near your monitor to keep you guided about what you are trying to achieve.
To get back to your last comment "start about 1 mile out so when you line up on center you are already a little to the right of center but it will correct". I do not mean to confuse you but hope to explain with words what is complicated to carry out. Bear with me. If you start at one mile or 1.5 mile ready to land then you will need to be at that ideal 'start point' which is situated on the extended angle centreline. There is no other start point.
Do not allow the carrier to do your flying for you. You are always flying relative to the carrier. Nothing else matters. Do not allow any drift to develop either for your aircraft or anticipating where you and the carrier will be when you are drifting. It seems to me that this 'drifting' or 'crabbing' is causing some of your landing crashes. You need to fly your aircraft at all times to maximise its position relative to those three parameters: OAoA - centreline - glideslope. Get back to the ideal at every opportunity. Drifting back is a bad technique that will cause you grief.
My comment about 'crossing the wake' was in reference to doing an ordinary circuit with a base turn as indicated on the NATOPS carrier cct diagram. When doing the base turn you must fly the aircraft so that during the turn it crosses the carrier wake. If you do not do this while attempting to lineup you will naturally be well left of the angled centreline. Then it will be difficult to get back to the angled centreline (by crossing the wake - there is no other way!) in time for you to settle down with the correct parameters. Perhaps you need to decide how you are going to practice carrier landings. As recommended by me set up a mission or flight that has you starting with a good start at or near the ideal 'start point' mentioned above. Then all you need to do is fly down that 'funnel' to a good landing without any drift. :-)
I don't regard your questions as pestering burner12. I can always try to improve my efforts to explain. It is a two way process. If you do not understand then ask again. I have learnt a lot already in the last two days that I had no idea about some aspects of Hornet carrier flying (indicated earlier in this thread). To me that is a good thing.
I'll recommend again that you practise carrier flying away from the carrier (at a few thousand feet) and then practice on a regular runway; and then go out to the carrier. There is a lot to do in a short amount of time at the carrier. Giving yourself an opportunity to practise in easier environments is worthwhile practise. After all this is what is done in real world flying. No one does their first solo to go immediately out to land on a carrier. ;)
SpazSinbad:
WMV Video shows a Hornet Carrier Landing from a day circuit just before base turn. The pilot is looking left with a slight left wing waggle when he is looking most likely. The LSO tells him about the Wind Over the Deck down the angled deck (WOD). Pilot asks about whether procedure today is 'Hornet Full Flap' (sometimes I gather for different conditions the Hornet will use half flap). During the base turn there is an alarm 'whoop' (don't know why) however just after that sound you will see in the lower left hand corner the white wake. See how the Hornet 'crosses the wake' to then line up on the angled deck.
Looks like a short approach. Watch the mirror - see how the Hornet stays lined up. From this HUD view the approach angle may look steeper than it is but it does look steep. Notice how the ball is lined up all the way down to touchdown. Then at the last you hear engine go to full power during arrest.
This first example is larger than the second one (which are both the same otherwise). Reason for first 'better quality' is an effort to help see the HUD details but really there is not much difference between the two versions. So download the small one to get an idea anyway of what a Hornet Day Carrier Circuit looks like 'through the HUD'.
(43Mb) http://files.filefront.com/HornetDLcanastaHiQwmv/;13550223;/fileinfo.html (HIGHER QUALITY)
[use the "Download Now!" button rather than view/download the .FLV video version via black screen]
OR
(22Mb) http://files.filefront.com/HornetDLcanastawmv/;13550226;/fileinfo.html (SAME lower quality)
&
HORNET ESP (FSX) Carrier Landing demo .WMV video (14Mb):
http://files.filefront.com/HORNET+ESP+DL+hiqwmv/;13550694;/fileinfo.html
micro:
To elaborate on my previous post:
Most of the time when people experience this problem they are coming in too fast. This is either due to poor technique, or more commonly, being over-weight. If you are landing with full fuel tanks you are way too heavy, thus the jet requires more speed for optimal AOA (8.1 degrees). Lighten the fuel load to half tanks and aim for 130kts, that should reduce the chance of spin out.
Here's a video made specifically for FSX Acceleration carrier landings.
-On Vimeo:
-Download: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7UQJCCZA
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