Author Topic: LM P3dV5 HF 2 KCLT still a Stutterfest  (Read 3476 times)

rsmith6621a

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LM P3dV5 HF 2 KCLT still a Stutterfest
« on: June 28, 2020, 11:56:38 pm »
So after $1200 of upgrades to a new almost the best MOBO/CPU/more than adequate GPU on the market, a CPU that is OC'd  loading in Windows 10 2004, LM P3dv5 HF2 and the latest Nvidia drivers and flying with settings that are around 50% the last 3 miles on the approach today to KCLT were one big stutterfest show.

I know you have a video showing everything is just fine but that is with a default aircraft. I have done the same thing with a default Piper Cub and got the results you did Umberto. I am sorry to say you do not optimize your scenery's for 3rd party aircraft like FSLabs or PMDG or addons like ASP3. It seems you only optimize for default.

Again I do not have the issues I have with your products with other 3rd party scenery developers except LVFR.

You really need to figure out something more efficient. KCLT will be a airport I will not be making regular stops in and likely maybe the rest of your scenery's.

I am already to take the blame.

virtuali

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Re: LM P3dV5 HF 2 KCLT still a Stutterfest
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2020, 11:52:18 am »
I know you have a video showing everything is just fine but that is with a default aircraft. I have done the same thing with a default Piper Cub and got the results you did Umberto. I am sorry to say you do not optimize your scenery's for 3rd party aircraft like FSLabs or PMDG or addons like ASP3. It seems you only optimize for default.

We make the scenery as best as we can and, if it runs well ( as you noticed ) with a default aircraft, it means the scenery is ok. That doesn't obviously mean there isn't always a better way to do things.

KCLT is still a scenery that support FSX, P3D1, 2, 3, 4 and 5, and this without ever asking any extra money for updates, so those that bought it for, let's say, FSX when it came out, could continue using it with P3D V4 and they can continue using it in P3D V5.

It has *some* optimizations for P3DV4, but not nearly as much as a true native P3D4 scenery like KORD V2 or LFSB, which are 100% PBR and 100% made for P3D V4. There's no such thing as a native P3DV5 scenery, the format of 3d objects exported with the V5 SDK is still 4.4, the only difference is the AFCAD if the scenery uses the new Sloped runway feature, but it's otherwise identical.

Because KCLT had to support FSX too, it had to rely a lot on Simconnect to create objects, because many things that can be done with the V4 SDK with the standard SDK, could only be made using Simconnect before. And, there was no way this airport would fit in memory with FSX without a strict memory management, which is done by creating objects only when they are needed ( when you are close ). This is done with Simconnect commands.

The problem is, if you have OTHER add-on that send a lot of commands through Simconnect ( weather add-ons are an example ), it's possible the sim cannot keep up with all the requests, so the various Simconnect commands we send to the sim to create/destroy objects, which is usually done to keep fps up and prevent memory exhaustion in 32 bit sims, might be executed more slowly, or the sim can pause briefly, because it's busy talking with everybody else too.

However, thanks to the flexibility of our Couatl scripting engine, it's fairly easy for us to tweak the memory handling strategy without having to redo the whole scenery. KCLT already behaves differently if it runs with a 64 bit simulator but, those optimizations weren't enabled for the whole scenery, just the main buildings.

We did the same with KSDF when a user reported the same issue ( KSDF is similar to KCLT, it's very detailed but still support FSX ), and with a small update, it improved the stuttering a lot.

If you run the FSDT Live Update now, you'll see a new update that does the same for KCLT, and you can even disable/enable it using the YouControl menu for KCLT, it's a new option called "Extended loading range", which by default is Enabled, if the simulator is 64 bit.

Yes, there IS a cost in fps, nothing is free in this world, there was a reason why we kept the loading ranges fairly short, and was both to save memory for FSX users, but also to keep the fps up. I've measured the fps loss with the PMDG 737 NGXu, with AI traffic, at about 2 fps, but I couldn't see much stuttering.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 11:54:33 am by virtuali »

rsmith6621a

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Re: LM P3dV5 HF 2 KCLT still a Stutterfest
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2020, 05:38:31 pm »

Umberto,

Have you ever surveyed your customer base to find out what percentage uses DEFAULT aircraft and who uses 3rd party like PMDG/FSL/Aerosoft?

My bet is a person who simflys out of major airports dont udse default aircraft from the P3d menu.

Maybe if you would do some research into what your customers fly then you would see the benefit of optimizing scenery to suit their needs.

I have PacSim/Flightbeam/Imaginesim and dont get any stutters now on FB or PS, I do(minimal,not as bad as I do with FSDT) with IS because their scenery's are more detailed. They actually develop their scenerys for customers who use 3rd party aircraft.

 

virtuali

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Re: LM P3dV5 HF 2 KCLT still a Stutterfest
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2020, 06:36:04 pm »
Have you even READ my previous post ? From your answer, it seems you haven't because, someone that actually read it should have said:

"thanks a lot, you not only explained why the scenery USED to be made that way, but you even already UPDATED following my report! That's amazing, I'll try it now and will provide some feedback"

This is what you SHOULD have said, had you read my post.

And besides, you said:

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"I know you have a video showing everything is just fine but that is with a default aircraft."

But that's not the case. I also posted a video at KCLT with the PMDG 747:



Which of course works just fine, hardly a "stutter fest". And this was BEFORE the change we made, I would expect to be improved now.

« Last Edit: July 06, 2020, 06:41:48 pm by virtuali »

rsmith6621a

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Re: LM P3dV5 HF 2 KCLT still a Stutterfest
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2020, 05:50:51 am »


So here is the deal. I hope you dont fly all the time like you do in the video. That is not the kind of video that is very convincing to me that there are no issues with the scenery. It would have taken the same amount of time to do a stabilized ILS approach than to dive bomb the airport, I gather now you are MORE a scenery designer and flying is not a passion.

So on to the task of this thing called YouControl. It would have been nice if the designer could have used the email bank from the scenery sales to email everyone that have purchased your scenery's to tell us about it and how to use it. Communication goes along way with me. I do not visit the forums until I have an issue as you well know and as of late I have gone months without visiting here which is a reflection how much I use FSDT scenery's as of late.

So once I found the Youcontrol settings at KCLT I launched a PMDG 737-800 SWA flight out of KBWI for KCLT, a flight about 1:15 long, just enough to start taxing my system work a bit and use resources. At 10.5/5.1 and 3.5 miles out I had micro stutters about the time it takes to blink, so I could have very well missed them had I blinked. I will admit it was like flying in to almost a new scenery and no stutters on taxi in to the gate,very refreshing.  I then loaded up a 748 KSDF/KPHX to get packages of ice packs to the people of Phoenix and took off 35L and again reached 33fps and 99.1% acceptable except for the micro stutter passing 100kts about 3000ft down the runway.

So the question is? How about KLAX/KORDv2/KFLL/KDFW/KMEM/CYVR/PHNL? Does YouControl enhance those scenery's as well for the better. I will be flying more in to FSDT scenery's in the future if that's the case.

You should put me on the BETA team, I think I would be of great value to you.

Now is there any PDFs on how to get the jetbridges top work with SODE if you don't have the payware GSX installed, otherwise can you post instructions on how to get the jetbridges to move with the Control J function cause that is not working on my system at the present time. You really need to do an update and go all SODE.   

Thnks for the help.

 

virtuali

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Re: LM P3dV5 HF 2 KCLT still a Stutterfest
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2020, 04:56:26 pm »
I hope you dont fly all the time like you do in the video. That is not the kind of video that is very convincing to me that there are no issues with the scenery. It would have taken the same amount of time to do a stabilized ILS approach than to dive bomb the airport, I gather now you are MORE a scenery designer and flying is not a passion.

I see you made the same comment on Youtube as well, which I obviously replied to. Do you REALLY think that, with all time ( many hours each day, way more than a normal 9-to-5 schedule ) spent doing *ACTUAL* development, anybody at FSDT still remembers how to properly fly an airplane ?


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It would have been nice if the designer could have used the email bank from the scenery sales to email everyone that have purchased your scenery's to tell us about it and how to use it.

No need to email anyone.

The Live Update notifies you when there's an update, as soon you start the simulator. The check is made every day. And, if you suspect you might have missed a notification, you can use the "Check for updates" menu under the "Live Update" menu in the sim.

When you get an update notification, a menu will open with 3 options, one of them is to READ the release notes, which will display this page:

https://www.fsdreamteam.com/couatl_liveupdate_notes.html

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June 29th, 2020

NEW: KCLT - Increased loading range for detail objects to improve smoothness with 64 bit simulators, at a small cost in fps. The option can be disabled from the KCLT YouControl menu.

The very existence of the YouControl, what it does, and how to call it, is of course explained in the manuals. KCLT manual, for example, explains YouControl at Page 6. This update, made following YOUR report, just added a new option.


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Communication goes along way with me. I do not visit the forums until I have an issue as you well know and as of late I have gone months without visiting here which is a reflection how much I use FSDT scenery's as of late.

Apart for the automatic notification of updates, do you realize this new option in the YouControl menu has been added AS SOON AS YOU REPORTED IT ?

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I will admit it was like flying in to almost a new scenery and no stutters on taxi in to the gate,very refreshing.

Of course. That was the reaction I was expecting to my latest post...

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So the question is? How about KLAX/KORDv2/KFLL/KDFW/KMEM/CYVR/PHNL? Does YouControl enhance those scenery's as well for the better. I will be flying more in to FSDT scenery's in the future if that's the case.

KORD V2 is a native P3D V4 scenery, and it's done in a completely different way, so it doesn't require any changes. All the others are less detailed than KCLT and KSDF, but they ARE handled differently if the sim is 64 bit ( all loading ranges are higher ).


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You should put me on the BETA team, I think I would be of great value to you.

Just report anything that looks wrong to you, and we'll see if can fix it, just like we did HERE.

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Now is there any PDFs on how to get the jetbridges top work with SODE if you don't have the payware GSX installed

As explained so many times already, everywhere, in the website, in the forum, in all products manuals, GSX is completely free at all FSDT airports. And even if you don't care to read all of these, all our sceneries that uses SODE jetways, have a very clear notice in their installer, which you MUST read otherwise the installer won't proceed, which says something like:

- You must install GSX Level 2 to use this scenery

- GSX Level 2 is FREE to use at this airport.

We hoped that, with all these explanations, nobody would assume he would have to "pay to use jetways". Surely not at OUR airports. The whole point of buying GSX or GSX Level 2, is to use it everywhere else. At all our airports, it was always free.

mikewings

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Re: LM P3dV5 HF 2 KCLT still a Stutterfest
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2020, 01:33:00 am »
@rsmith6621  I know it can be frustrating but I can tell you I have loaded five different FSDreamTeam sceneries including CLT with P3DV5 and PMDG, and full ORBX support and virtually all of the performance meters turned up and they are all smooth as silk.  So you may have another problem like I did which is causing your problems.  I can't say if this will solve your problem, but it took me three days of chasing stutters to find out that if you have a high performance multicore processor, and that BIOS is set to enable Hyperthreading, that MIGHT be the issue.  It made an incredible difference in my performance when I turned that off.  I had acceptable performance with medium setting with default aircraft prior this but major stuttering on custom scenery with PMDG.  Its illogical because Hyperthreading is suppose to add processing capacity to the CPU, but there is something about the way these sims work (FSX/P3D) that DOES NOT LIKE IT..  A lot of these problems look like scenery issues when sometimes they are not..
Mike Willey
VATSIM Controller / PMDG 737 Simulator
St Paul, MN USA