FSDreamTeam forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: virtuali on July 04, 2017, 10:03:13 AM



Title: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: virtuali on July 04, 2017, 10:03:13 AM
Dear Flight Simmers,

For the past 11 years, FSX has been our simulator platform of choice. It served us well, and we saw amazing things being done with it by 3rd party developers, offering us very complex airplane simulations, very detailed sceneries, and clever utilities that extended the simulator’s capabilities far beyond what we thought to be possible years ago.

Lately we, developers, start feeling more and more restrained by the underlying platform limitations. While 4GB of maximum ram would seem adequate in 2006, when FSX was originally released, and no PC could handle the detail that consumed that amount of memory, in 2017 we have hardware far more capable, but we just cannot use it because of the software limitations.

The most aggravating problem is the 32bit memory limit, which no hardware can fix, since it’s a core software problem. This not only is the cause of OOMs, but it also forces developers to design a product taking into account this limitation. Some optimizations that might be good for fps, like LOD levels, have a side effect of taking more RAM, so we are often forced to choose between the lesser of two evils, either having a good frame rate and smoothness (risking OOMs), or losing fps and smoothness, trying to save up to the last byte of memory, to prevent crashes.

FSX was born with issues that, after the latest patch in 2007, nobody could have addressed, because the traditional cycle of a new sim every 2-3 years has been interrupted, so we had to live with it, and found ways to overcome it. We found very creative ways to bypass several underlying limitations of the sim, a common example of which is the complexity of creating convincing ground textures, by layering lots of different materials over the FSX round earth model, and other ‘hacks’ which wasted lots of our time in developing and offering support for, and that would have been surely better spent perfecting the art, instead of finding solutions to problems that shouldn’t exist. Airplane developers have been also very limited in their options, and many of them had to reverse-engineer the sim, to hack into it at the deepest level, for example to simply get a more realistic lighting of the cockpit.

But we got used to it, and made good products, which are loved by users.

Recently, the discontinuity between what the FSX engine can do, and what other game engines are capable of, has become a real burden, and it’s hampering our chances for future advancements.

In the past years, we have seen the rise of Prepar3D, which was initially based on the FSX graphic engine, but it has now evolved on its own path, while still maintaining a surprisingly high rate of backward compatibility with FSX.

Prepar3D has a lot more to offer to developers, and therefore to its users, than just backward compatibility. The native SDK is being constantly improved, and it has grown so much, that we are more and more frustrated by the FSX limitations.

But until today, Prepar3D was still a 32 bit application, which means it might have not been possible to look at the native SDK, because many of the things it has to offer, would likely not be possible due to memory limitations. Today, the release of Prepar3D 4 changes everything. Not only we might not be constrained by an SDK made in 2006, but the better features that Prepar3D always offered to us, become now really feasible, for the first time.

Take some of the examples below:

- No "hard" Memory limitations which might cause OOM errors.

- Dynamic Lighting

- Improved human Animations

- Creation of more advanced SimObjects

- Conditional display of objects/textures

- More realistic and reliable ground models

- Improved compatibility between different add-ons (and autogen), due to the new installation method.
Today, if you compare FSX with Prepar3D V4, you have the new sim which offers a solution to a problem (memory) that can only get worse as add-ons get more complex and the hardware more powerful to support them and you also get a generally smoother flying experience and better fps too. And if you buy more hardware, you will get your money’s worth of it, because buying a faster video card or adding more memory will actually be reflected on your sim’s performance.

We believe the platform that will stay for us as the main sim for the next years, is Prepar3D, so we decided to make public a decision that we have been considering for several months already, since the first time we got to see the new sim:

In the next months, we’ll all stop developing new products for FSX.

Some of our products that are already very close to release, such as Flightbeam KMSP or Fsdreameam KSDF, will still be offered for FSX too, and we’ll of course continue to support all our existing releases with bug fixes, but the new products we’ll work from now on, will be designed for Prepar3D 4 and future versions.

We all agree this is the best decision for the future of the community moving forward, and we can only hope that our stance would result in other developers considering the same move. But we also need you, the users, to make this work.


undersigned,

Umberto Colapicchioni - Fsdreamteam
Alessandro Cucinotta - Fsdreamteam
Amir Salehi - Flightbeam
Lars Pinkenburg - 29Palms
George Grimshaw - FlyTampa
Martin Brunken - FlyTampa
Emilios Gemenetzidis - FlyTampa


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: stevefocus on July 04, 2017, 11:52:52 AM
This is great news.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: ubersu on July 04, 2017, 12:12:58 PM
Sorry, in view of P3D's EULA and costs, you have lost me as a customer.

DJ


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: Hnla on July 04, 2017, 04:06:41 PM
Very good news, and great decision. Like what happened with the abandonment of FS9, there will always be people that will whine and be stuck in the past. Don't listen to them.

If you stay stuck in the past than your company will be in the past. Keep looking forward!


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: Richard McDonald Woods on July 04, 2017, 04:08:31 PM
Gentlemen,
What heart-warming news!

Letting go of FSX must have been a very reluctant decision. But I am sure that you are absolutely correct in so deciding.

I know that 64-bit platforms give all software developers the elbow room that is so required to ensure our flying hobby continues to develop into the foreseeable future.

Many thanks for making this brave decision. You will have me as a dedicated customer in the years to come.

And many thanks for coming out with such a direct statement to us all.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: NMahinK on July 04, 2017, 06:18:16 PM
Sorry, in view of P3D's EULA and costs, you have lost me as a customer.

DJ

Have fun living in the past. I for one support all developers moving forward, from experience P3Dv4 is the simulator we should of had since October 2006 (The month FSX was released). Those that say "You lost me as a customer," understand the permanent move to P3Dv4 will gain FAR more customers and a brand new customer base.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: RobertO1035 on July 04, 2017, 06:44:58 PM
Somebody please explain the purpose of P3D4??  I looked on the website and it specifically states that this sim is NOT for "Personal Consumer Entertainment."  There are only "student' options.

Well, even though I am a private pilot, I am not a student.  I flight sim for "personal entertainment."  So, am I not allowed to buy or use P3D4? 

Why are FS developers talking about migrating away from FSX, when such a small group of consumers are "allowed" to use this sim?   


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: virtuali on July 04, 2017, 07:18:03 PM
About the P3D EULA, this is not the place to discuss what License applies to you. However, if you think there isn't a license that seems to apply to you, I would suggest to have a look at the Developer Subscription option:

http://www.prepar3d.com/developer-network-program/


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: OVI on July 05, 2017, 03:06:34 AM
Umberto,
RobertO1035 is not raising the question of the lisence here. He is putting the fact on the table that great sim developers want to support the sim without the license for 99% of consumers. It's not a question! This is the fact.
Besides this fact there is another issue here. It is called "forcing the end consumers to buy the certain sim".

Alex


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: jonmurchison on July 05, 2017, 03:35:14 AM
Umberto,
RobertO1035 is not raising the question of the lisence here. He is putting the fact on the table that great sim developers want to support the sim without the license for 99% of consumers. It's not a question! This is the fact.
Besides this fact there is another issue here. It is called "forcing the end consumers to buy the certain sim".

Alex

So a developer who exclusively developers for X-Plane, and their are a number of them, are forcing me to buy X-Plane? Are you going on their formus and making your concerns about being forced to buy X-Plane known? I certainly hope so if you have a genuine issue around what you are saying.

The 'fact' is I have something called freedom of choice, as do developers. These guys have made a business decision. You and others who want to cling to these antiquated licensing arguments being rolled out since P3D was released can make a consumer decision. That's how it works. To say you are being forced into something is utter nonsense.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: Shom on July 05, 2017, 06:49:42 AM
Umberto, what platform(s) will be supported in KPIT & the new KORD?


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: VitaminA330 on July 05, 2017, 12:10:59 PM
Absolutely makes sense. First I wasn't too happy that I wouldn't be able to use so many older addons (reliably) in P3D4. So I hesitated to purchase it. But when I finally did, I've never touched P3D3 again, let alone FSX. Finally time for a new start now!


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: OVI on July 05, 2017, 01:42:50 PM

X-Plane exclusive developers has nothing to do here. FSDreamTeam is not producing for one sim.
Developers never have choice and thanks to economics laws will never have it. Only end consumer who pays them and support their business determines the demand. As end consumer I am not satisfied with such decision and see it as just loss of the customers from their side and not as the "step into future".


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: nfinger on July 05, 2017, 04:14:50 PM
Good to see a company looking to the future and not stuck in the past. P3Dv4 is so advanced using x64 finally to free up the shackles developers had to content with. As for the licensing of P3D I consider myself a student that never stops learning new things, even though I am the holder of a CPL with PIFR and twin ratings.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Title: Re:
Post by: zoran on July 05, 2017, 04:44:05 PM
Let's see how it all turns out when the dust settles in Round 2 years when there will be a clearer picture

By then at the very least everything being supported will be ready to roll with the proper installers and not endless work arounds


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: pracines on July 05, 2017, 06:50:41 PM
I fully support this decision. Lockheed Martin has proven to be a great friend of 3rd parties.

I have been waiting for this (64-bit) day in MSFS based flight simulation to happen for 15+ years now. FS9 should have been 64-bit the way I see it!

I would also say look out for 128-bit to be upon us before we realize it, of course if world war III does not happen first. VR is expanding, it will quickly mature, and this in turn will require much greater power.

Hopefully the costs of hardware will come down as flight simulation can finally push the limits once again, as it did in the past. ;D


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: GAJ52 on July 05, 2017, 09:00:59 PM
I also think this is a great move.

I have only just joined the P3D bandwagon initially with v3.4 then v4.  P3Dv4 with quality addon scenery and aircraft is unbelievable, way beyond what FSX can offer and I thought FSX was the bees knees for many years.

Great move FSDT and I look forward to buying your products for many years to come - for P3Dv4 plus.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: virtuali on July 06, 2017, 11:07:14 AM
RobertO1035 is not raising the question of the license here.

Well, he has.

Quote
He is putting the fact on the table that great sim developers want to support the sim without the license for 99% of consumers. It's not a question! This is the fact.

The fact is, the only license which is might be limited to some users, is the Academic one, which offers a discount to students. The description of the Professional license on LM website says:

Quote
The license is available to those that are training, instructing, simulating, or learning.

Haven't we always said FSX is a "simulation" rather than a "game" ? This means that anyone whose intention is to "simulate" or "learn", can use the Professional license.

We could say that, since FSX only had an entertainment license, so it qualified as a "game", was always used in the wrong way, by users not wanting a game and to be "entertained".

In any case, this will be the last post about license discussions. Every further posts on this matter will be deleted, which is the same policy LM has in place on his forum. The question if you can qualify for a certain LM license, is a matter between you, the customer, and LM, so it has no place being discussed here.

Quote
Besides this fact there is another issue here. It is called "forcing the end consumers to buy the certain sim".

No, it's called "deciding to offer some kind of product to the market, and taking the risk it MIGHT not sell".


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: virtuali on July 06, 2017, 11:13:25 AM
Umberto, what platform(s) will be supported in KPIT & the new KORD?

This should have been clear from the announcement:

Quote
Some of our products that are already very close to release, such as Flightbeam KMSP or Fsdreameam KSDF, will still be offered for FSX too, and we’ll of course continue to support all our existing releases with bug fixes, but the new products we’ll work from now on, will be designed for Prepar3D 4 and future versions.

So yes, KSDF will be our last scenery which will be still available for FSX. Note that, I said "scenery": GSX might still see other updates, even major ones, for FSX, but just because it will take more time to eventually redesign it for P3D V4 from the ground up but, we'll surely add more and more P3D4-only features to it, while still maintaining FSX compatibility.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: sanookbkk on July 09, 2017, 04:13:44 AM
I totally understand that developers are moving to P3DV4 Only.
P3D license might be expensive but Flight simulation is a passion. If you are not ready
to invest in a product which at least will offer endless possibility to enhance realism then just play "games".

Flight simulation has been stuck with FSX limitations for 15 years thus losing many potential customers.Before you had many freeware sceneries and
tools but much less today as people moved away from an over-aged product which did not reflect today's technical possibilities.

P3DV4 will hopefully bring many new flight sim addicts as it might be a software of his time and not an old soft with a 2006 technology full of limitations.
The more people share our hobby, the more wonderful add-ons we can get as developers would be able to enlarge their customer base
and have more money for R&D, also we might see a surge in new creative and nice free addons as we saw in the good old times.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: bradl on July 09, 2017, 06:25:14 AM
I totally understand that developers are moving to P3DV4 Only.
P3D license might be expensive but Flight simulation is a passion. If you are not ready
to invest in a product which at least will offer endless possibility to enhance realism then just play "games".

Flight simulation has been stuck with FSX limitations for 15 years thus losing many potential customers.Before you had many freeware sceneries and
tools but much less today as people moved away from an over-aged product which did not reflect today's technical possibilities.

P3DV4 will hopefully bring many new flight sim addicts as it might be a software of his time and not an old soft with a 2006 technology full of limitations.
The more people share our hobby, the more wonderful add-ons we can get as developers would be able to enlarge their customer base
and have more money for R&D, also we might see a surge in new creative and nice free addons as we saw in the good old times.


Here is what I don't get.

The price of the academic edition of P3D is actually ON PAR previous versions of MSFS that were released, and that's at least from FS98 all the way up to MS Flight. When they were released at their respective times, they would have been +/- $5 USD for their particular version, while the previous version was discounted. but even FSX Gold Edition with the Accelerator pack was a $65 purchase here in the US!

So I really don't see what the problem is here.

BL.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: timmo73 on July 11, 2017, 10:47:32 PM
Will Prepar3DV4 scenery work in FSX? I can't afford to get a new high end computer so that will leave me out. I realize things move forward but there are others that are on a fixed income that simply just can't afford a new computer. It's sad it has to end like that but that's the way things are.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: Hnla on July 11, 2017, 11:48:42 PM
Quote
Will Prepar3DV4 scenery work in FSX?

No, that's the whole point of making it P3D only: To take advantage of the features that P3D offers that FSX doesn't have


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: timmo73 on July 12, 2017, 12:12:19 AM
I guess people like me will just have to wait. It's too bad but people don't care anyways in this world.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: Hnla on July 12, 2017, 12:33:05 AM
I guess people like me will just have to wait. It's too bad but people don't care anyways in this world.

You're not alone, I don't have a very good system by any means, It's old and needs new software. I have to turn my settings way down, and in P3D V4 things can get bad. It's just the way it is.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: timmo73 on July 12, 2017, 12:53:52 AM
Well, I think they are jumping the gun too fast. Prepar3DV4 just got released. There are still many hurdles to go over. There's still payware aircraft and scenery not ready yet. I think there should be a choice between FSX or Prepar3D. Not everybody is going to be able to jump into another computer and simulator. I tried Prepar3DV4 and for the recommended settings a computer would easily cost over $1500. Everything is fine fine with FSX Steam but Prepar3DV4 jerks all over the place with my pc. You need a very high end system to even get it going. There's not really a huge change that I saw that makes it even worth it. It's still even more demanding on the pc than FSX. You're going to see a divide there though. There still will be people with FSX-SE. Time will tell.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: virtuali on July 12, 2017, 11:32:44 AM
Well, I think they are jumping the gun too fast. Prepar3DV4 just got released.

Are you aware we only announced no NEW products will be made for FSX anymore ? Are you aware of the time it takes to do a NEW product from scratch ? It now averages to 18/24 months and, by that time, P3D4 will be not simply "just got released", but on its way to be maybe replaced by a V5, which will obviously be a 64 bit platform, with an SDK way more similar to the V4 one, and more and more different than the FSX one.

So, it would be very wrong and very shortsighted if we'd still release NEW FSX products in 2018/2019. And we are just alerting users in advance, so they have all the time they need to evaluate switching away from FSX.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: timmo73 on July 12, 2017, 01:31:43 PM
What about the Dovetails Flightsimworld? They are going 64 bit too. Like I said you jumped the gun. There will be others that go 64 bit. You're going to have a big problem because it will become divided.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: virtuali on July 12, 2017, 01:43:46 PM
Prepar3D is a mature product in its 4th version.

DTG FSW is still in early access for its 1st release, and there's no SDK available. When, and if, the product will be released, together with a proper SDK, we'll be able to decide about it.

I know the thread title is saying "P3D4 only", but the real intention was more dumping FSX than supporting P3D4 only. Nothing in this post says we'll never support any other sim, not even in the future.

The only think sure, is that we won't go back to FSX for new products which are in the planning stage right now.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: streichholz on July 14, 2017, 12:36:14 PM
Great one. I will fully support this decision. :)


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: timmo73 on July 15, 2017, 02:43:48 PM
Since I live here in Orlando and down the street from Lockheed Martin I'm trying to get Lockheed Martin to ban or have stricter guidelines those that are using Prepar3D for entertainment purposes. Lockheed Martin is not in the entertainment business nor will they ever be. Their simulator is getting abused by people using it for entertainment purposes and can't wait until Dovetail Games gets their 64bit simulator meant for entertainment purposes. I brought it to Lockheed Martins attention what's going on and they are looking into it. Their information could get into the wrong hands because people choose to ignore what P3D is used for. I'm better off patiently waiting for Dovetail Games to create their 64bit simulator when I know Lockheed Martin will do something sooner or later to prevent this from happening anymore. If you have both P3D 64bit and Dovetail Games 64bit there will be confusion on airplanes and scenery compatible. It's stupid to focus on Lockheed Martin as again they are not in the entertainment business and not getting anything from Microsoft anymore. Remember, Microsoft has granted the rights to Dovetail Games and not Lockheed Martin to develop the next Flight Simulator in the series. I think I am very wise to wait and see what happens. Lockheed Martin has the right to terminate any license not used for entertainment purposes. I'll let Dovetail Games to develop their new 64bit simulator and join them when the time is right for me. I have a conscience and it bothers me that i would really be using P3DV4 for entertainment purposes so after downloading it I decided to ask for a refund and do what I believe is right. Ive' waited all this time for a new Flight Simulator since FSX and I can wait longer. Patience is a virtue.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: Mark_Fox on July 15, 2017, 07:38:55 PM
Since I live here in Orlando and down the street from Lockheed Martin I'm trying to get Lockheed Martin to ban or have stricter guidelines those that are using Prepar3D for entertainment purposes. Lockheed Martin is not in the entertainment business nor will they ever be. Their simulator is getting abused by people using it for entertainment purposes and can't wait until Dovetail Games gets their 64bit simulator meant for entertainment purposes. I brought it to Lockheed Martins attention what's going on and they are looking into it. Their information could get into the wrong hands because people choose to ignore what P3D is used for. I'm better off patiently waiting for Dovetail Games to create their 64bit simulator when I know Lockheed Martin will do something sooner or later to prevent this from happening anymore. If you have both P3D 64bit and Dovetail Games 64bit there will be confusion on airplanes and scenery compatible. It's stupid to focus on Lockheed Martin as again they are not in the entertainment business and not getting anything from Microsoft anymore. Remember, Microsoft has granted the rights to Dovetail Games and not Lockheed Martin to develop the next Flight Simulator in the series. I think I am very wise to wait and see what happens. Lockheed Martin has the right to terminate any license not used for entertainment purposes. I'll let Dovetail Games to develop their new 64bit simulator and join them when the time is right for me. I have a conscience and it bothers me that i would really be using P3DV4 for entertainment purposes so after downloading it I decided to ask for a refund and do what I believe is right. Ive' waited all this time for a new Flight Simulator since FSX and I can wait longer. Patience is a virtue.

What was the point of this? I too am tired of reading stuff like this. Your comments adds zero value to the discussion. But in this day and age that's ok.

Now that you have no horse in the race, it's time for you to stop telling other people how their horse is run. Step away. Please.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: Hnla on July 15, 2017, 09:12:42 PM
Quote
Since I live here in Orlando and down the street from Lockheed Martin I'm trying to get Lockheed Martin to ban or have stricter guidelines those that are using Prepar3D for entertainment purposes

I bet you were one of those kids in school who reminded the teacher about the homework


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: Jayster226 on July 16, 2017, 04:40:44 AM
Since I live here in Orlando and down the street from Lockheed Martin I'm trying to get Lockheed Martin to ban or have stricter guidelines those that are using Prepar3D for entertainment purposes. Lockheed Martin is not in the entertainment business nor will they ever be. Their simulator is getting abused by people using it for entertainment purposes and can't wait until Dovetail Games gets their 64bit simulator meant for entertainment purposes. I brought it to Lockheed Martins attention what's going on and they are looking into it. Their information could get into the wrong hands because people choose to ignore what P3D is used for. I'm better off patiently waiting for Dovetail Games to create their 64bit simulator when I know Lockheed Martin will do something sooner or later to prevent this from happening anymore. If you have both P3D 64bit and Dovetail Games 64bit there will be confusion on airplanes and scenery compatible. It's stupid to focus on Lockheed Martin as again they are not in the entertainment business and not getting anything from Microsoft anymore. Remember, Microsoft has granted the rights to Dovetail Games and not Lockheed Martin to develop the next Flight Simulator in the series. I think I am very wise to wait and see what happens. Lockheed Martin has the right to terminate any license not used for entertainment purposes. I'll let Dovetail Games to develop their new 64bit simulator and join them when the time is right for me. I have a conscience and it bothers me that i would really be using P3DV4 for entertainment purposes so after downloading it I decided to ask for a refund and do what I believe is right. Ive' waited all this time for a new Flight Simulator since FSX and I can wait longer. Patience is a virtue.

go home


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: stevefocus on July 16, 2017, 07:08:57 AM
Since I live here in Orlando and down the street from Lockheed Martin I'm trying to get Lockheed Martin to ban or have stricter guidelines those that are using Prepar3D for entertainment purposes. Lockheed Martin is not in the entertainment business nor will they ever be. Their simulator is getting abused by people using it for entertainment purposes and can't wait until Dovetail Games gets their 64bit simulator meant for entertainment purposes. I brought it to Lockheed Martins attention what's going on and they are looking into it. Their information could get into the wrong hands because people choose to ignore what P3D is used for. I'm better off patiently waiting for Dovetail Games to create their 64bit simulator when I know Lockheed Martin will do something sooner or later to prevent this from happening anymore. If you have both P3D 64bit and Dovetail Games 64bit there will be confusion on airplanes and scenery compatible. It's stupid to focus on Lockheed Martin as again they are not in the entertainment business and not getting anything from Microsoft anymore. Remember, Microsoft has granted the rights to Dovetail Games and not Lockheed Martin to develop the next Flight Simulator in the series. I think I am very wise to wait and see what happens. Lockheed Martin has the right to terminate any license not used for entertainment purposes. I'll let Dovetail Games to develop their new 64bit simulator and join them when the time is right for me. I have a conscience and it bothers me that i would really be using P3DV4 for entertainment purposes so after downloading it I decided to ask for a refund and do what I believe is right. Ive' waited all this time for a new Flight Simulator since FSX and I can wait longer. Patience is a virtue.

Ignore this muppet, he posted exactly the same thing on the flightbeam forums. I should imagine he has done the same on the flytampa and 29 palms forums.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: bradl on July 16, 2017, 07:32:34 AM
Since I live here in Orlando and down the street from Lockheed Martin I'm trying to get Lockheed Martin to ban or have stricter guidelines those that are using Prepar3D for entertainment purposes. Lockheed Martin is not in the entertainment business nor will they ever be. Their simulator is getting abused by people using it for entertainment purposes and can't wait until Dovetail Games gets their 64bit simulator meant for entertainment purposes. I brought it to Lockheed Martins attention what's going on and they are looking into it. Their information could get into the wrong hands because people choose to ignore what P3D is used for. I'm better off patiently waiting for Dovetail Games to create their 64bit simulator when I know Lockheed Martin will do something sooner or later to prevent this from happening anymore. If you have both P3D 64bit and Dovetail Games 64bit there will be confusion on airplanes and scenery compatible. It's stupid to focus on Lockheed Martin as again they are not in the entertainment business and not getting anything from Microsoft anymore. Remember, Microsoft has granted the rights to Dovetail Games and not Lockheed Martin to develop the next Flight Simulator in the series. I think I am very wise to wait and see what happens. Lockheed Martin has the right to terminate any license not used for entertainment purposes. I'll let Dovetail Games to develop their new 64bit simulator and join them when the time is right for me. I have a conscience and it bothers me that i would really be using P3DV4 for entertainment purposes so after downloading it I decided to ask for a refund and do what I believe is right. Ive' waited all this time for a new Flight Simulator since FSX and I can wait longer. Patience is a virtue.

Your problem is that you ASSUME that people are using it for entertainment purposes. You have no bloody idea how or why people are using the Academic version of P3D.

We all know what happens when you ASSUME. So keep your preconceived notions (read: prejudices) to yourself.

BL.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: Hnla on July 16, 2017, 07:04:26 PM
Guys I think he's honestly just a spammer. He's been advertising his stupid "Dovetails FlightSimWorld" in his last like 10 posts. It's so obvious


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: streichholz on July 17, 2017, 11:19:30 AM
Yeah, sounds like he is from DT itself. Obviously he has no idea what he is talking about.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: Leemazz on July 23, 2017, 01:03:54 PM
PMDG MD11 thats all , that is why i will stick with FSX , i can run P3D but i dont like the look of it . Wise move to release KSDF for FSX other than that , which im glad your releasing it for FSX , im happy for you boys to move on but until PMDG release the MD11 for P3Dv whatever i will stick with FSX with big stevie boys DX10 fixer . Blue skies all you big timers in your PMDG 777s , oh and its not real ssshhhhhh dont tell anybody


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: virtuali on July 24, 2017, 10:55:33 AM
I hope you don't honestly think we should intentionally release new airports (those are are *designing* now, to be released in the next 2-3 years ) crippled by having to support a sim based on 11-years old technology, just because some other developers are unable/unwilling to update some of their products for 64 bit.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: Leemazz on July 24, 2017, 10:01:35 PM
I agree with you 100% Umberto its the correct move to move away from FSX , what i mean is that you will have good sales from KSDF in FSX due to the fact of the PMDG MD11 because as we all know UPS are based at KSDF and operate 37 MD11s .

All im saying is i will not be moving to P3Dv4 due to the fact the PMDG MD11 is only for FSX i understand it will not be made available in P3d , i have been simming for over 15 years and ive seen enough topics and pointless threads about this and that , i just enjoy and im greatful for what we have and the choices we have , i understand the devs choice so im putting forward my choice as to why me and probably other users will not make the jump to the darkside just yet . I wont come on here saying EULA this and all that , im just glad SDF will be for FSX so be it if it is your last for FSX your choice and i respect you for that


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: kmanning on July 26, 2017, 06:57:25 AM
Very good news, and great decision. Like what happened with the abandonment of FS9, there will always be people that will whine and be stuck in the past. Don't listen to them.

If you stay stuck in the past than your company will be in the past. Keep looking forward!


I happen to agree with DJ, and I don't like your attitude suggesting that DJ, or some of the others, are whining and we should stay in the past! NO, THAT is NOT what's being suggested. He is stating that the cost is TOO high and the EULA, which I've read, restricts MOST of the community, which is the consumer, and NO I don't like it either!!


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: virtuali on July 26, 2017, 10:34:15 AM
He is stating that the cost is TOO high and the EULA, which I've read, restricts MOST of the community, which is the consumer, and NO I don't like it either!!

I wonder why, when someone calls FSX "a game", simmers get angry saying they are not gaming/being entertained but, when discussing about the P3D EULA, they say they cannot use it, because it's "not for entertainment".

If you are using the sim as a simulation and as a learning tool and not to be entertained (as you would with a game), then you are complying with the EULA.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: kmanning on July 27, 2017, 06:17:48 AM
Quote
I wonder why, when someone calls FSX "a game", simmers get angry saying they are not gaming/being entertained but, when discussing about the P3D EULA, they say they cannot use it, because it's "not for entertainment".

If you are using the sim as a simulation and as a learning tool and not to be entertained (as you would with a game), then you are complying with the EULA.



Well, I never viewed FSX as a game or entertainment but as a simulator, although that was the purpose for FSX from Microsoft. I totally agree with you that FSX is not a perfect simulator and I'm not against going forward having a better simulator. I very much want a good accurate simulator and I'm totally for it, provided there's no high costs and no restrictions. All the things posted here have not been made clear, until now, so thanks for clearing this up. I was surprised to read that many were upset about the EULA and the high cost, and after reading these things, I had to find out what all of this was about. So I went to the Prepard 3D website and read the EULA and at the bottom, and I hope it's okay to post this, it says "Prepar3D is not to be used, offered, sold or distributed through markets or channels for use as a personal/consumer entertainment product." I assume this is where many were raising the question. At first glance, I could not understand why all this big issue over "personal consumer entertainment," and it sounded like the product, P3D4, was not for the consumer. But from what I gather, it is just saying that we should not offer, sell or distribute to markets, FOR personal use as entertainment purposes. We CAN use it as a simulator, for learning and training. As long as we use the P3D4 as a simulator, which is what I've been doing in FSX and never viewed it as "entertainment," we are complying with the EULA. I don't understand where this so called "entertainment" in the agreement is coming from and why it was even written in the agreement in the first place.  


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: virtuali on July 27, 2017, 11:11:00 AM
I don't understand where this so called "entertainment" in the agreement is coming from and why it was even written in the agreement in the first place.  

I think the most likely explanation is that LM ended up getting a cheaper license to buy the sim from Microsoft, compared to what it would cost if they got a "total" license which would include the gaming market too, which is not really their target audience.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: kmanning on July 28, 2017, 12:06:20 AM
Umberto,
I've been going over the Several P3D4 licenses that are available, and I'm confused as to which license I should purchase. The ones I'm considering are either the Academic License or the Developer License. The other licenses are much more expensive and I will not be considering those. With the Developer Licenses, one pays a monthly subscription, but would I have to be a flight sim or addon developer to purchase that one, and would l have to develop and provide addons for the P3D4 to use the subscription, or is that just a name they use? Otherwise, I guess the Academic License would be the one for me. Could you give me some advice?

Ken.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: Hnla on July 28, 2017, 04:40:40 AM
Umberto,
I've been going over the Several P3D4 licenses that are available, and I'm confused as to which license I should purchase. The ones I'm considering are either the Academic License or the Developer License. The other licenses are much more expensive and I will not be considering those. With the Developer Licenses, one pays a monthly subscription, but would I have to be a flight sim or addon developer to purchase that one, and would l have to develop and provide addons for the P3D4 to use the subscription, or is that just a name they use? Otherwise, I guess the Academic License would be the one for me. Could you give me some advice?

Ken.

I don't understand why people are so "lost and concerned" over the P3D Licenses. This isn't North Korea, the police aren't going to come to your home and arrest you if they suspect you are "being entertained" if you buy the academic license. Just buy the academic one and forget about it, it's not that difficult, I promise you.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: kmanning on July 28, 2017, 07:18:01 AM
Quote
I don't understand why people are so "lost and concerned" over the P3D Licenses. This isn't North Korea, the police aren't going to come to your home and arrest you if they suspect you are "being entertained" if you buy the academic license. Just buy the academic one and forget about it, it's not that difficult, I promise you.


I know that, but what I want to know is what's the difference between the Academic and the developers? I think Umberto can explain it. Just because you don't understand why people are lost over the EULA doesn't mean they're supposed to understand.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: virtuali on July 28, 2017, 10:22:20 AM
I think the only license you might not always qualify for, is the Academic, because it requires to be enrolled in some kind of school, although LM doesn't enforce it like, for example, Autodesk does (they require school documentation to sell you the student versions of their products).

All the other licenses can be purchased by anyone, provided they are not used for entertainment purposes. That's what the EULA says.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: kmanning on July 28, 2017, 07:20:57 PM
I think the only license you might not always qualify for, is the Academic, because it requires to be enrolled in some kind of school, although LM doesn't enforce it like, for example, Autodesk does (they require school documentation to sell you the student versions of their products).

All the other licenses can be purchased by anyone, provided they are not used for entertainment purposes. That's what the EULA says.


That's what I was thinking regarding the Academic, but wasn't for sure. But it does say one thing about the Academic. It says that the Academic is provided for students at a discount, and that seems to suggest that if you're not a student, you pay the full price. But it also says that it has a watermark to signify the use of the license, whatever that means, and that may suggest that you have to be a student. Thanks Umberto for explaining that. But does the Developer's license require that I be a sim developer or a scenery developer, meaning that I have to develop addons for the P3D?


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: jabloomf1230 on July 29, 2017, 04:02:26 PM
It's an example  of what's called self identification. If you are either a student of flight simming, a pro at flight simming or you think you might want to develop  content, then pick a license type. If you are beyond the pro level, that just means that you like to shoot at other aircraft and drop bombs. ;)


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: kmanning on July 29, 2017, 10:01:02 PM
It's an example  of what's called self identification. If you are either a student of flight simming, a pro at flight simming or you think you might want to develop  content, then pick a license type. If you are beyond the pro level, that just means that you like to shoot at other aircraft and drop bombs. ;)


I really don't care for the Professional Plus that allows for shooting down other aircrafts and dropping bombs, not to mention there're other things I should put that much money into. Even the Professional one is quite expensive and I'll have to wait on that one, if I don't qualify for the others. I hope I can purchase the P3D4 soon.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: virtuali on July 31, 2017, 01:21:25 PM
But does the Developer's license require that I be a sim developer or a scenery developer, meaning that I have to develop addons for the P3D?

Just read the LM website and the developer license EULA:

http://www.prepar3d.com/developer-network-program/

The website says:

Quote
Anyone can become a Prepar3D Developer! No matter if you are a seasoned developer, or just starting out, we want to encourage you to develop for Prepar3D.

And, nowhere in the license agreement it says you MUST release/publish/sell an add-on. You can get it to learn how to develop for P3D, and the license ALSO contains a license to use the sim itself, but you are not bound to release something.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: FLYFROMUTAH on September 12, 2017, 08:09:34 PM
At the current time FSX is the largest market. Do you expect that to shrink so much in the next two years that is not worth offering customers scenery at the loss of your income. Yes it might be easier to develop products for the new platforms 64 bit. As a business decision, easier at loss of income might be self defeating. If you have investors, which I have no idea if you do or are totally privately owned, they might not like leaving a market that provides income to the bottom line. I think as any investor might until that market FSX is no longer viable in terms of costs vs income, that it should be sustained for the time being. Especially Flightbeam who came out with KPDX in development just as P3V4 came out. This is a disservice to those who have been waiting a long time for a good Portland airport scenery and a major disappointment. I think you should have given it at least another year before deciding to cut off FSX users. >:( Other developers I purchase from have not made this decision at this time, and will be writing software for FSX for the time being and into the future as long as the market is large.   


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: Hnla on September 13, 2017, 06:10:38 PM
At the current time FSX is the largest market. Do you expect that to shrink so much in the next two years that is not worth offering customers scenery at the loss of your income. Yes it might be easier to develop products for the new platforms 64 bit. As a business decision, easier at loss of income might be self defeating. If you have investors, which I have no idea if you do or are totally privately owned, they might not like leaving a market that provides income to the bottom line. I think as any investor might until that market FSX is no longer viable in terms of costs vs income, that it should be sustained for the time being. Especially Flightbeam who came out with KPDX in development just as P3V4 came out. This is a disservice to those who have been waiting a long time for a good Portland airport scenery and a major disappointment. I think you should have given it at least another year before deciding to cut off FSX users. >:( Other developers I purchase from have not made this decision at this time, and will be writing software for FSX for the time being and into the future as long as the market is large.   


(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/316/674/5d5.gif)


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: juniormafia27 on September 17, 2017, 06:33:45 AM
At the current time FSX is the largest market. Do you expect that to shrink so much in the next two years that is not worth offering customers scenery at the loss of your income. Yes it might be easier to develop products for the new platforms 64 bit. As a business decision, easier at loss of income might be self defeating. If you have investors, which I have no idea if you do or are totally privately owned, they might not like leaving a market that provides income to the bottom line. I think as any investor might until that market FSX is no longer viable in terms of costs vs income, that it should be sustained for the time being. Especially Flightbeam who came out with KPDX in development just as P3V4 came out. This is a disservice to those who have been waiting a long time for a good Portland airport scenery and a major disappointment. I think you should have given it at least another year before deciding to cut off FSX users. >:( Other developers I purchase from have not made this decision at this time, and will be writing software for FSX for the time being and into the future as long as the market is large.   


I has been a while since I have been on here.  Based on your statement it seems that you have not been in the field of flight simulation hobby too long.  We've all know that this day was coming.  In terms of the market shift was going to occur....as it has with FS9.  Although FSX was great leap forward for a lot of us.  It also had it's limitations in which made it frustrating to continue for word.  With the introduction of P3D v.4.  The sim has finally made it to a point in which works for everyone wanting positive performance and maximum realism.  FSX is has "BEEN" slowly going down in the history books....especially with X-Plane 11 on the market, as well.  So for you to tell a developer how to run his buisness is insulting.  Unless you know how the engineer sceneries on your own, to benefit the rest of the flight sim community.  I think you should have a seat.  This announcement has nothing to do with what others are doing.  He is stating what they are doing.  And news flash the others are not far behind....FsDreamteam, Flightbeam, and Fly Tampa by themselves are huge pillars in the FSX/P3D world.  So if you don't like their decision.  You can simply not buy and stay with the trend you want to roll with.  But at the end of the day like it or not they are going forward with this.  I personally think they are doing the right decision.  I have been a long time customer of all three of these developers., at that.  The new market is now P3d and X-Plane 11


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: FLYFROMUTAH on September 18, 2017, 03:12:48 AM
You assume quite wrong, I have been doing this for about 17 years. Next time don't assume you make yourself look like a jerk. :P


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: Dave_YVR on September 18, 2017, 04:00:53 AM
 So essentially you are saying that Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms don't actually know what their market is..  I find that highly unlikely.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: virtuali on September 18, 2017, 09:28:17 AM
At the current time FSX is the largest market.

What evidence you have to support this data ? I hope you don't confuse "number of users" with "number of users that purchase add-ons".

I believe Aerosoft did a poll BEFORE P3D V4 was even announced, and they had somewhat like a 50% split between P3D and FSX, and this doesn't even take into account how much these users buy. I guess the same poll made today, with P3D V4 on the market, will be quite different.

Quote
I think you should have given it at least another year before deciding to cut off FSX users

Which is exactly what we are doing.

KSDF, which will be released shortly, will still be for FSX. It's the next sceneries we'll do after that will be for P3D V4 only, which right now are confirmed to be KPIT, LSFB and the new KORD. None of them will likely arrive before at least one year so, we are giving you exactly what you are asking: about a year in advance to prepare yourself.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: FLYFROMUTAH on September 18, 2017, 05:19:01 PM
I'm fine with the year in advance for new products, as I do believe that P3V4 is the future. FSX is not yet the past but still in the present. Updates for KORD as an FSX product would have been nice, but since you describe it as new and maybe bought as new, that will be our loss. But what really disturbs me is that Flightbeam came out with KPDX at least a month before V4 was released, and will not be an FSX product. Is it really going to take a year for them to do an airport of that size? ::) This should really be reexamined.
My data did come from another developer who intends on making products for FSX into the future as they describe the FSX market as quite large. I do not know of course who buys add-ons and who does not. That would be a sales figure of all developers combined.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: virtuali on September 19, 2017, 11:09:10 AM
But what really disturbs me is that Flightbeam came out with KPDX at least a month before V4 was released, and will not be an FSX product. Is it really going to take a year for them to do an airport of that size?

It should be no secret that most major scenery developers all had access to P3D V4 several months in advance, how else would be possible to have compatible installers (like we had, including those we made for Flightbeam..) on day one ?

This means, we all looked at the SDK and, if you are a scenery developer and look at the SDK, it would be obvious why FSX is dead. There are some things in it that could be game changers, both in quality and performance.

This is not so obvious for users, because there's not a single scenery out there that use any of that (not even those that boast P3D V4 "native" compatibility, just because they recompiled some .BGLs with the V4 SDK, that's a joke), so you might have the impression P3D V4 it's just an FSX with no OOMs. It's way more than that, but it will take some time before "real" product using the new features will come out and those can ONLY be made with NO FSX backward compatibility at all, because some things will alter the way a scenery is designed, right from the start.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: FLYFROMUTAH on September 19, 2017, 10:05:10 PM
I understand your technical reasons for doing what you are doing. Maybe we should have known that you had a copy of V4 before everybody else, though it was a secret and we were not privy to this information.
Question still is Flightbeam announced KPDX on June 1st, will this still fit into the time frame of one year from the time you had the version of P3V4 and when KPDX will be finished? Let's say by April of 2018.
Otherwise I will have to beg another developer to do this for FSX, which I would say they would be reluctant to go near it. Just to understand where I'm coming from is that KPDX will now be my home airport, since I'm moving to that location next month, and this would complete for me my airports for where I have live(d).
Otherwise just disappointed, but what you do if you desire is just charge more the FSX version, I would be willing to live with that in this case, hopefully still being somewhat reasonable. It would also be good marketing for you.   


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: virtuali on September 20, 2017, 03:43:56 PM
I understand your technical reasons for doing what you are doing. Maybe we should have known that you had a copy of V4 before everybody else, though it was a secret and we were not privy to this information.

All 3rd party developers weren't allowed to discuss the very existence of the sim, before LM announced it officially. This is standard practice for every pre-release software which is not tested in public.

Quote
Question still is Flightbeam announced KPDX on June 1st, will this still fit into the time frame of one year from the time you had the version of P3V4 and when KPDX will be finished? Let's say by April of 2018.

I don't think this would be the right place to ask.

Quote
Otherwise just disappointed, but what you do if you desire is just charge more the FSX version, I would be willing to live with that in this case, hopefully still being somewhat reasonable. It would also be good marketing for you.   

We won't do any new FSX scenery anymore, and you WILL update to P3D V4 sooner or later, just like you probably moved away from FS9.

If you won't go to P3D V4, you will go either to FSW or X-Plane 11, and I'd say it's more likely we'll support one of them, rather than going back to a dying 32 bit platform.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: juniormafia27 on September 26, 2017, 04:27:48 AM
You couldn't of said that any better.  FSX has been dying for a long time(do not need to be a developer to know that much)......the defibrillator had been in use for a long time.  Now the defibrillator has ran it's battery dead and time to move on to another serogate.  The community was wanting a 64 bit platform for a very long time.....Now the heavy hitters are P3Dv4 and X-Plane 11.  If this guy wants to stand on the ledge and convince himself he can fly with no wings let him......he will eventually figure out what the rest of us already have known.  At this point it is best for some to take a seat and let the adults handle adult business.....let them drink the Kool-Aid while we sip wine.....FSX is the kool aid....no ice. lol





I understand your technical reasons for doing what you are doing. Maybe we should have known that you had a copy of V4 before everybody else, though it was a secret and we were not privy to this information.

All 3rd party developers weren't allowed to discuss the very existence of the sim, before LM announced it officially. This is standard practice for every pre-release software which is not tested in public.

Quote
Question still is Flightbeam announced KPDX on June 1st, will this still fit into the time frame of one year from the time you had the version of P3V4 and when KPDX will be finished? Let's say by April of 2018.

I don't think this would be the right place to ask.

Quote
Otherwise just disappointed, but what you do if you desire is just charge more the FSX version, I would be willing to live with that in this case, hopefully still being somewhat reasonable. It would also be good marketing for you.   

We won't do any new FSX scenery anymore, and you WILL update to P3D V4 sooner or later, just like you probably moved away from FS9.

If you won't go to P3D V4, you will go either to FSW or X-Plane 11, and I'd say it's more likely we'll support one of them, rather than going back to a dying 32 bit platform.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: juniormafia27 on September 26, 2017, 04:30:37 AM
17 years?!?!?(hahahahah with my Power Ranger villain laugh)  I can't tell, lol.....you don't need me to make you look like a jerk.....apparently you are doing a great job on your own(judging by some of the comments)



You assume quite wrong, I have been doing this for about 17 years. Next time don't assume you make yourself look like a jerk. :P


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: Hnla on September 28, 2017, 05:30:24 PM
Isn't it time to change "High Quality Addons for Microsoft Flight Simulator to Lockheed Martin Prepar3d"?  ;)


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: Longhaul444 on October 11, 2017, 02:17:40 AM
I for one welcome the change developers are doing. Hey I still use FS9, FSX (even got the SE edition when it went on sale), P3Dv3-4, and XP9-11. So I still have a choice to which sim I want to fly. I am stuck with FSX for the MD-11 as PMDG will not support the future development of that bird. These are the choices we make as consumers when you buy software. I'm not crazy about the price tag on each major release for P3D, but I will support LM as long as they continue to develop a platform that I use and like. Several add-ons will not make the move to the x64 platform hence the still living in the past with some things. Also as one who has spent more money in this hobby than I care to admit over the past decades, I look forward to seeing what the future holds with the hobby moving forward. Umberto, dunno if you or someone else could answer this: do you know of any scenery for KCAE Columbia, SC? And would FSDT be doing any smaller airports in the future, like KGSP or KCHS?


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: virtuali on October 11, 2017, 08:41:47 AM
And would FSDT be doing any smaller airports in the future, like KGSP or KCHS?

Not sure. We are releasing an small-ish airport in the future, which is Basel-Freibourg, and airport that might be considered "small" by American standards, but it's probably mid-size in European terms. But we chose it mainly because we already did the other two major airports in Switzerland, so it was fitting to add the 3rd one, since we are based in Switzerland as a company, after all...

But along the years, we seems to have noticed that sales are directly proportional to the importance and size of the airport, so it's the mega-hubs that seems to be preferred by users. This means we'll probably redo all our major hubs in the next years, to take advantage of 64 bit, and new graphic techniques that can be finally used by dropping backward compatibility with FSX and P3D V3 and earlier.

In a way, the jump from FSX/P3D 32 bit to 64 bit is even more significant than the one from FS9 to FSX. Back then, you were upgrading from a platform that had tons of add-ons, and none of them was capable to exhaust the system memory, so it's more important now, that everybody will move away from FSX as soon as possible.

We had KSDF ready for release for a while, and are spending these last weeks trying to optimize (by reduce complexity and giving FSX users the ability to turn off features), just because it runs perfectly under P3D V4 with all the stuff in and it's perfectly smooth, while in FSX we are struggling to reach 50-60% of the fps we get in P3D V4, and keep stuttering or OOMs at bay. It's just not fun anymore, and we are only glad it's the last one we'll ever release on FSX.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: cowings1588 on December 11, 2017, 05:40:16 AM
I'm all for it.. Been for it, since moving to P3D V4.. I am ready for nothing but P3D v4 64 bit scenery..   :)


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: rrwhaley on September 05, 2018, 07:07:53 PM
Totally agree with you!


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: DLGA on October 26, 2018, 12:16:52 AM
Very sorry to hear this. But in view of P3D's EULA not to mention related costs, you have lost me as a customer forever. UNLESS you decide to make software compatible with X-Plane 11 which is running rings around P3D straight out of the box and for less than $100.00!!!!

DLGA


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: virtuali on October 26, 2018, 10:31:00 AM
Very sorry to hear this. But in view of P3D's EULA not to mention related costs, you have lost me as a customer forever.

FS9 uses said the same things to us back then, when we moved away from FS9. Of course, they are all still there with us, some moved to FSX and some directly to P3D. The list of developers moving away from FSX to P3D4 is increasing DAILY, yesterday Flightsim studios said their next airports will be for P3D only.


Quote
UNLESS you decide to make software compatible with X-Plane 11 which is running rings around P3D straight out of the box and for less than $100.00!!!!

X-Plane has many nice things, but is still lacking behind P3D in many other things.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: jfholer on November 16, 2018, 09:55:41 PM
Having just made the switch to Prepar3d myself (finally) this is great news. Now if I can just get somebody to do San Antonio (KSAT) for Prepar3d.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: dlarokk on February 02, 2019, 08:49:18 PM
I'm a bit confused here. FSDT's products are clearly for entertainment primarily. So, is FSDT just assuming the P3D eula will continue to be unenforced?


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: bradl on February 03, 2019, 10:08:56 AM
I'm a bit confused here. FSDT's products are clearly for entertainment primarily. So, is FSDT just assuming the P3D eula will continue to be unenforced?

Actually, no they aren't. They are there for a reference to real world scenery, which can be very helpful when it comes to local procedures around a given airport. Case in point:

KLAS just had a runway renumbering which affected all SIDs, STARs, and approaches arriving and departing the field. Anyone wanting to practice an approach to that field couldn't do that with default scenery.

If doing this in a full motion simulator for any type rating or certification, this is a hell of a lot simpler and cheaper than renting the plane and flying out there to fly the actual procedure, especially when you're 2000 miles from the field in question.

BL.


Title: Re: Flytampa, Flightbeam, FSDT and 29Palms future products to be P3D4 only
Post by: dlarokk on February 03, 2019, 10:16:34 PM
You could do that with a free AFCAD file. The detailed high res graphics, moving jetways, etc are all there for entertainment simulation, at least primarily.

That said, if FSDT insist on leaving FSX:SE behind, I'd really like to see X-Plane supported.