FSDreamTeam forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: JamesChams on September 29, 2009, 10:37:06 pm
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Virtuali/FSDT Staff,
As an FS scenery developer, I though you might appreciate this...
@Users:
Look at detail that an FSX airport can bring; down to the Jetway underbelly neon lighting and glass reflections at the parking gates.
The Only thing that's missing here, Virtuali, is you "NEW" FSX ONLY Tool to add the necessary "Real life" that you've mentioned. ;)
Enjoy! :)
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Nice find.
Aside from FSDT and FlyTampa, they really put out some nice products.
For whatever reason, I haven't bought any of them since they are all in Australia, but I think I will be a buyer of their PNW product once it launches.
Hopefully, in the next few years, between FSDT, FlyTampa, and ORBX/FTX they will be able to populate the US with a lot more airports. I hope that FTX continues work in the US after the PNW product it finished.
One of these days I think I will have to buy the Australia products since they look to good to pass up.
Edit: I never would have imagined that when we had the first version on FS back in the early 80's that FS would look like this only 25 to 30 years later.
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Impressive without a doubt, same for me, these devellopers are making me want to fly on the Australian continent. I have nothing there at the moment but that will not last very long I am sure...
Thanks for posting this
Regards,
David
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Is FTX the same as ORBX ?
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Is FTX the same as ORBX ?
Yes!
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I agree, it's very impressive. But, you most likely need have to have all sliders maxed out in order for it to look that good. Which isn't the problem, it's the framerates. Even the framerates in the video, were not as smooth as the results I get in FS9. Yes, indeed, for that level of quality with is far better than FS9, the frames were not bad. But to get even those frame rates, must be on quite an expensive system. Still waiting on a system that can yeld me 50FPS average with maxed sliders for $2000 or less.
Thanks for sharing. ;)
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...it's very impressive. But, you most likely need have to have all sliders maxed out in order for it to look that good. Which isn't the problem, it's the framerates. Even the framerates in the video, were not as smooth... the frames were not bad. But to get even those frame rates, must be on quite an expensive system. Still waiting on a system that can yeld me 50FPS average with maxed sliders for $2000 or less.
Thanks for sharing. ;)
Mr. "Newmanix,"
Here is his system spec.'s and FPS test on his blog: http://orbxsystems.com/forums/index.php?topic=14930.msg129492;boardseen#new (http://orbxsystems.com/forums/index.php?topic=14930.msg129492;boardseen#new)
And, this video to show you that the FPS issue is NOT much of an issue any more, even with some limited tech. spec. rigs.
Also, I'll Post my NEW system spec.'s, as you and others have requested, after Oct. '8th '09, when it gets finalized.
Enjoy! ;)
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Even the framerates in the video, were not as smooth as the results I get in FS9.
The video on Youtube is encoded at 25 fps, regardless on what framerate the FSX PC was running at. Which means, on top of not being the real frame rate, it will look jumpy without perfect synchronization between the gaming frame rate and the video encoding framerate, which is the case here. And, there's probably the overhead due to fraps, or whatever they use to capture the video.
So, it's always wrong to judge smoothness from a video, both when it's good and when is not so good.
That's why, instead of spending time creating videos, we prefer to give freely downloadable Trial versions of the scenery.
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Even the framerates in the video, were not as smooth as the results I get in FS9.
...That's why, instead of spending time creating videos, we prefer to give freely downloadable Trial versions of the scenery.
Virtuali,
I glad, for a change, that you decided to join this discussion and not because you are having to ask everyone to behave. ;)
But, shameless "FSDT Plug" :P - Just Kidding! ;D I like it when developers share their knowledge and opinions about their products and how they differ or improvements in the overall methods being employed; so, come on back with more, anytime. 8) And, I for one, LOVE the "Trial Before You Buy" feature in your products. It's like going to the store and playing with the toys to see if you like them before you have to pay the price of asking "Mom" to fork the bill. ;D (Or in my case, NO one's there to argue with about it. :'()
However, Mr. John V. was NOT using fraps to record the session in his blog but, his iPhone. He ONLY used FRAPS to show the FPS counter as a demo of the scenery FPS he was getting on his rig., which was pretty impressive since most users complain about FPS with FSX. And, really, that is NOT the case anymore with a moderately good and inexpensive hardware setup.
"You'll come on back now, you'hear!" - a (Kentucky, OH. USA) Neighbourly Expression.
Ciao! :)
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However, Mr. John V. was NOT using fraps to record the session in his blog but, his iPhone.
Which, of course, is not what I've said.
Read again, carefully, what I've wrote: the complain about not so good fps was related to the FIRST video you posted, which is cleary captured directly from the PC, not with a camera in front of the monitor, as the SECOND video is, that is far more smooth than the first one (although is also running on a much more powerful machine).
And that simply proves my point that, video captured with fraps, like the first one, and encoded at stardard video rates, can be quite misleading about the actual smoothness.
The second video, being captured with a camera (iPhone, which still is a videocamera...) pointed at the monitor, is way smoother , both because it gets the inherent video motion blurring AND because fraps is not taxing the system too much, because it's only showing the fps counter, and not capturing.
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Virtuali,
Alright, that is a more through explaination of what you were trying to say, which some users (like myself) sometimes need. Its not always easy to read-into someone's thinking from their words. Not at all because of language usage, in this case, but because of inference; i.e. which video you were refering to vs. Mr. Newmanix, etc. since you didn't come right out and refer to it directly. So, don't hold that against me. ;D
But, at least we have your input, for a change, something which is always welcomed by me. :)
BTW: What are they doing in their sceneries that makes their glass textures more reflective or at least as reflective as yours?
Ciao! :)
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Not at all because of language usage, in this case, but because of inference; i.e. which video you were refering to vs. Mr. Newmanix, etc.
Again, if you simply cared to read my message more carefully: I was replying to Newmanix, and I've also quoted part of his message, that was a reply to the FIRST video you posted so, there's no doubt which video I was referring to.
If you took more time to READ what other people say, instead of being so fast in replying, it would be best for everyone.
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Virtuali,
...If you took more time to READ what other people say, instead of being so fast in replying, it would be best for everyone.
You mean you actually read all the FS9 vs. FSX "BullS@!t" that people write before you delete them? :D ;D I know you still upset with having to get up each morning to it. :P ;D
But you may have missed this yourself from my earlier post; "but because of inference; i.e. which video you were refering to vs. Mr. Newmanix, etc. since you didn't come right out and refer to it directly. So, don't hold that against me." ;D
Now, lets tallk about the glass reflections, they seem to reflect either part of a jetway or some elements near the object, like flag poles etc. So, it looks like it doesn't use that FSX default "vegetation/ground" map. How are they doing that? Is it something you are doing also? Is it as easy thing to do?
What say you?
Ciao!
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What are they doing in their sceneries that makes their glass textures more reflective or at least as reflective as yours?
I don't see where the news is: we did stuff like that using advanced FSX materials since mid-2006, when FSX wasn't even released yet, and we were working on Cloud9 KMCO which is still one of our most advanced sceneries, well ahead of its time, when 3d modeling is concerned.
It's just easier to create such effects, if you don't have to take into account the fact the scenery has to be back ported to FS9. If we ported KMCO in FS9, it would look very bad, because *most* of its looks doesn't come from textures, but from material properties.
So, with later sceneries, we had to restrain ourselves a little bit using these FSX-only features, because otherwise we had to redesign a lot of the scenery for FS9, or having to offer a really bad-looking FS9 version, which is not something we want to do.
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But you may have missed this yourself from my earlier post; "but because of inference; i.e. which video you were refering to vs. Mr. Newmanix, etc. since you didn't come right out and refer to it directly. So, don't hold that against me."
I really don't know if you just don't understand, or you don't WANT to understand: how could you possibly say this, when it was obvious that (let's repeat it again...), since I was quoting a message from Newmanix that was replying when only the FIRST video was present, it's clear that the only video I could refer to, was that one ?
Now, if you please, just drop it.
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...It's just easier to create such effects, if you don't have to take into account the fact the scenery has to be back ported to FS9. If we ported KMCO in FS9, it would look very bad, because *most* of its looks doesn't come from textures, but from material properties.
So, with later sceneries, we had to restrain ourselves a little bit using these FSX-only features, because otherwise we had to redesign a lot of the scenery for FS9, or having to offer a really bad-looking FS9 version, which is not something we want to do.
Virtuali,
These are just the type of discussions "we" all should be having here... I'm glad we are doing so.
OK; so because of compatibility (which you have mentioned before) you have "limited" the use of tool in FSX so that users of FS9 can have a product, too. :-[ Understood! :-X
Of course, within a year or so most, if not all, will eventually switch over to FSX. Especially since companies like FTX/Orbx are developing solely for FSX and the hardware is getting cheaper/better performance-wise. And, they (FTX) are pushing the FSX technology there too. They are also looking at going into the German/Italian markets as well as the U.S.A. so, it is believed to be stiff competition expected ahead for developers, even Aerosoft has expressed that they feel that "bite." What are your plans for that eventuality? Will you switch over to making Aircraft then or will it be solely sceneries for FSX, and/or is the "playing field" large enough to accommondate everyone with in it, allowing for enough elbow-room for all?
I ask this because I wonder if you will also revisit older projects like Cloud9's KMCO or even yours (ONLY FSDT's) and give them an all NEW FULL FSX tool upgrade, etc. I especially would like to see that on your (Tomcat) aircraft. I want it to be, as Mr. Newmanix says, real "Bad-A$$ed" with all the FSX stuff possible. ;D
Anyway, Thanks for taking the time to discuss things with "us," customers, for a change. And, again, I welcome it again sometime soon! ;D
Ciao! :)
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Even the framerates in the video, were not as smooth as the results I get in FS9.
The video on Youtube is encoded at 25 fps, regardless on what framerate the FSX PC was running at. Which means, on top of not being the real frame rate, it will look jumpy without perfect synchronization between the gaming frame rate and the video encoding framerate, which is the case here. And, there's probably the overhead due to fraps, or whatever they use to capture the video.
So, it's always wrong to judge smoothness from a video, both when it's good and when is not so good.
That's why, instead of spending time creating videos, we prefer to give freely downloadable Trial versions of the scenery.
Virtuali,
You're right, and I see your point. Even my FS videos on YouTube, there is a huge difference. Even when FRAPS is running/recording in FS, my FPS drops slightly down as the CPU has to process the extra workload. And you are also right, Youtube limits the frames for better download/buffering speeds. Thus, the frames must be much better then what we saw in the first video indeed.
James,
I'd really love to see those specs... Of cource, I assume, that is only the airport scenery he displayed. If I add my FSGlobal, ActiveSky, UT, FS Elemental, Instant Enhancer, GE, and Pro mesh/terrain scneneries then that may put a huge dent in the FSX works as well. All these programs plus highend sceneries like FSDT KJFK, FDC, FS Passengers, and highend aircraft like my CS or PMDG aircraft still gets me the average of 35-50FPS in FS9. But would these results still yeld with that guys specs in FSX?
So James, in that second video, who knows what other FS addon programs were running? But for what it's worth, I was very impressed with what I saw minus the stuttering or maybe that was the iPhone... I look foward to your new rig specs, video and screenshots.
I have the $2000 on hold till January. which I have been sitting on for a year now. If I don't see any hardware impressive enough by Jan, that $2000 is going toward my new rims on my Passat and FSX will have to wait till 2011. Of cource, assuming there will be affordable rigs bad@$$ed enough by then... ;)
newmanix
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Will you switch over to making Aircraft then or will it be solely sceneries for FSX, and/or is the "playing field" large enough to accommondate everyone with in it, allowing for enough elbow-room for all?
We don't have any crystall ball. One thing for sure, we'll not switch because of someone else is switching too, but only IF and WHEN, FS9 sales will drastically drop.
Alright, we don't have precise exact figures, but we have a rough idea from the downloads (there's no reasons to suspect FS9 users downloads the Trial more than FSX and don't buy it afterwards) so, as we said, many times already, when FS9 downloads will slow down considerably, we'll decide what to do. It's not that FS9 will die instantly so, there will be quite some time to react.
In the meantime, who knows, we might have other suprises. Perhaps Windows 7 will be a catastrofic failure, so Microsoft will concentrate on the Xbox360, and the PC gaming will just die...
Or, Windows 7 will be an incredible success, and PC gaming will rise again, together with a new Flight sim announcement. Who knows ?
We'll surely not look at what other developers do, when taking decisions, because most of the issues involved are far bigger than the small Flight sim addon business "backyard"...
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Will you switch over to making Aircraft then or will it be solely sceneries for FSX, and/or is the "playing field" large enough to accommondate everyone with in it, allowing for enough elbow-room for all?
We don't have any crystall ball. One thing for sure, we'll not switch because of someone else is switching too, but only IF and WHEN, FS9 sales will drastically drop.
Alright, we don't have precise exact figures, but we have a rough idea from the downloads (there's no reasons to suspect FS9 users downloads the Trial more than FSX and don't buy it afterwards) so, as we said, many times already, when FS9 downloads will slow down considerably, we'll decide what to do. It's not that FS9 will die instantly so, there will be quite some time to react.
In the meantime, who knows, we might have other suprises. Perhaps Windows 7 will be a catastrofic failure, so Microsoft will concentrate on the Xbox360, and the PC gaming will just die...
Or, Windows 7 will be an incredible success, and PC gaming will rise again, together with a new Flight sim announcement. Who knows ?
We'll surely not look at what other developers do, when taking decisions, because most of the issues involved are far bigger than the small Flight sim addon business "backyard"...
Well one thing is for sure, I will ONLY fly on a PC based simulatior. If Microsoft wants to push FS on a XBOX or somthing like that, then between FS9 and FSX that should hold me for at least 5 to 7 years. We will wait to see if Aerosoft's sim gains much notoriety... For the meantime, I am counting on FSX being the "alive" simulatior for the next 5 years...
For now, I am just really counting on FS9 to stay alive. And as long as great sceneries are still being produced for FS9, 3rd party developers will have my cash. FSDT Hawaii, is burning a hole in my mind!! I am really looking forward to flying the islands. I think that was a very good idea! And again Virtuali, I know FSDT has it's reasons for making FS9 sceneries still. I am just VERY glad you still do.
newmanix
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Virtuali,
Will you switch over to making Aircraft then or will it be solely sceneries for FSX, and/or is the "playing field" large enough to accommondate everyone with in it, allowing for enough elbow-room for all?
We don't have any crystall ball.
I'm glad; I'm actually praying for you to get "saved" (Christian) and that "witchcraft stuff" just gets in the way. :D Just Kidding! ;D
One thing for sure, we'll not switch because of someone else is switching too, but only IF and WHEN, FS9 sales will drastically drop.
Darn, so I've been helping FS'9er by downloading the FS9 Version, too. Yikes! :o :( >:(
Alright, we don't have precise exact figures, but we have a rough idea from the downloads (there's no reasons to suspect FS9 users downloads the Trial more than FSX and don't buy it afterwards) so, as we said, many times already, when FS9 downloads will slow down considerably, we'll decide what to do. It's not that FS9 will die instantly so, there will be quite some time to react.
I don't know but, with the whole global economic downturn, the mafia might start up all over again, and I might still have a "stone in my shoe" with all the FS'whining, which I'm going to ask a favor or two from those "wise-guys." So, maybe FS9 sales will go down instantly. LOL :D Just Kidding! ;D
BACK TO BEING SERIOUS ABOUT THIS...
...We'll surely not look at what other developers do, when taking decisions, because most of the issues involved are far bigger than the small Flight sim addon business "backyard"...
Understood! But, it doesn't hurt to see that they are growing by "leaps as bounds" with FSX Only products; the last thing you want to happen is to be behind in production (they are putting out another 11 "High-End" Sceneries in the next couple of months), but in your case that may not be an issue to be concerned about, is it? ???
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Mr. Newmanix,
No prob, I will give them to you. And, I'm glad you've saved your dollars; so don't worry, I'll help you find a "Bad-@$$ed" rig to go with all you FSX addon's. BTW: My current setup uses, all those with FTX's stuff, at an average of around 30-40FPS with everything MAX.'ed. But it is no where near as cheap ($$$-wise) as you are hoping for; the newer stuff, however, is. 8)
Ciao! ;)
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Darn, so I've been helping FS'9er by downloading the FS9 Version, too. Yikes! :o :( >:(
Busted, James! I knew you were still an FS9'er at heart. ;)
I'm guilty as well, I fly with both versions.
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Darn, so I've been helping FS'9er by downloading the FS9 Version, too. Yikes! :o :( >:(
Busted, James! I knew you were still an FS9'er at heart. ;)
I'm guilty as well, I fly with both versions.
Ooh!!! Good point! James! What the hell are you doing downloading FS9???????
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Gents,
Well, I must admit, I converted from the "Dark-side" (FS9) of the "Force" (FlightSim) to the "Good-side" (FSX) shortly after FSX came out and I bought a FSX capable system. :D ;D So, I was an FS9'er at one point in the past ::); but an FS'Whiner :P - Never! >:(
Funny the things you guys find to pick on... ;D :D LOL :D ;D
Honestly, I actually download every version (FS9/FSX) of FSDT's products and burn them to DVD; but, I haven't installed or run FS9 in a couple of years, :-\ may be more. Also, since you always ask, that's why I have Aerosoft, Orbx, and a few others do DVD's for me...it a lot of work! :P
:o Busted indeed! :-X :'(
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No disrespect Mr. James Chams, but ever single forum I look at, you are always arguing with people about the same thing...Why? Sorry, but I finally had to ask...
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No disrespect Mr. James Chams, but ever single forum I look at, you are always arguing with people about the same thing...Why? Sorry, but I finally had to ask...
:D ;D ::) :D
Kidding aside...even though I am a huge admirer of the amazing work that OrbX/FTX produce, beyond the 'wow' factor why would anyone want / need such detail from an airport? I can understand very detailed scenery since FSX really does allow and encourage low and slow flights but we're talking about FLIGHT simulator, not ROAD simulator. No disrespect to John V (and had I a rig that could run FSX decently I'd be buying all the OrbX stuff in a flash).
It seems to me that this is an exercise in showcasing the potential and capabilities of FSX rather than adding to our flight simming experience in any significant way. I'm more than happy with the detail I get off the FS9 versions of the FSDT products although I do appreciate the jaw-dropping clarity and detail FSX is capable of showing.
Cheers,
Tony
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...you are always arguing with people about the same thing...Why?
Who is he arguing with? All I see is a difference of opinion.
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...you are always arguing with people about the same thing...Why?
Who is he arguing with? All I see is a difference of opinion.
I think what he was meant was that on every forum he sees James on he reads pretty much the same style posts about how much better FSX is, why isn't everyone on FSX?, and the stiring of the pot on the subject, arguing, etc.
Know one needs to convince me of FSX. I haven't flow FS9 in over a year and a half.
I respect James' view on FSX, but after reading it over and over on many different forums, and the disagreements, and the "FS Whiners" stuff, I to get tired of it, and just try to ignore it.
He's probably the most vocal of anyone person I have ever seen in the FSX community forums. The only forum I have never seen James on is Avsim, so if you don't want to hear from him go there.
A politician should hire him as a campaign manager, if he hasn't already been one.
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:D :D
Thank you gentlemen. LOL
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So, as an FSX-ONLY customer, I'm buying "sub-standard FSX Quality" so that you'll get a product; I should be made into a "Saint."
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So, as an FSX-ONLY customer, I'm buying "sub-standard FSX Quality" so that you'll get a product;
It goes in both directions: we are not fully exploiting FS9 either, because the main version if the FSX one.
P.S.
I've edited your post, because it was basically unreadable, with all those giant colored font, even when quoting my message, which is not how it was posted. There's no need to write in big and/or colored letters. If you have a point, you'll have it regardless of the font size. If you don't, you can write it as big as you whish, it doesn't make any difference.
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Yeah, but you took all the "fun" part out... :-* :D ;D