Prepare3D

[Dimon]

Umberto,

Would be interesting to get familiar with your opinion about this project, its perspectives as core FS platform and your plans (if you have such). Seems like both ORBX and PMDG are seeking to put a feet in a water with this project.


http://www.prepar3d.com/

[virtuali]

It's surely an interesting platform, we were in the beta since last year, and it's technically just FSX so, it might not be too difficult to support it. In fact, we would only need to port the Addon Manager and Couatl and update the installers, and all our sceneries should work on it.

However, it seems that right now there are more developers (mostly FSX developers) than users of it, and their app store only features tools made by Lockheed Martin, nothing from 3rd parties so, everything it's still in the early stages, we'll see.

Surely, I don't see we doing something *specific* for Prepare3D, it will always be FSX products that would work identically in Prepare3D.

[cmpbllsjc]

However, it seems that right now there are more developers (mostly FSX developers) than users of it, and their app store only features tools made by Lockheed Martin, nothing from 3rd parties so, everything it's still in the early stages, we'll see.

Of all developers, I saw a thread on Avsim yesterday where John Venema <-(spelling?) from ORBX said "As for Orbx developing for other platforms, we have already started porting to Prepar3D which with v1.2 due out soon will offer substantial performance improvements over FSX and although I am under NDA the stuff coming up the pipeline for Prepar3D will blow people away. The beauty about P3D is that to us, it is "FS11"; particularly when we see fundamental things being fixed and improved. There are a bunch of ex-ACES guys working on P3D."

Sounds interesting, like maybe it would be a better platform than Flight if and when it comes.

Another fellow from P3D posted some comments in this thread yesterday in the PMDG forum. http://forum.avsim.net/topic/347769-prepar3d/  One guy in that thread has actuall ported over his NGX to work in P3D.

You never know, while I am not crazy about spending $10 a month, it would be a small price to pay for those of us who are enthusiasts or "hard-core" users, especially if the improvements, including performance are much better.

[PUP4ORD]

Interesting.......Might be awhile though before I try that.

[Highiron]

The only caveat I see for Prepare3D, is that according to the sold rights agreement of Microsoft's ESP; (which from what I understood from the past was going to be the next FS11/MSTS2 platform), to Lockheed Martin, was that it could not be used/sold for general public use. Their statement that Prepar3D can be used for non-government, government or commercial purposes leaves me to believe this policy has not changed.

This would make sense as a former Microsoft development project could end up competing directly with any future products such as MS Flight. It would not prevent though, third party developers from making products that are compatible with it, such as ORBIX or PMDG. Lockheed Martin's advantage of using Prepar3D is that it is a product that is certified under FAA requirement for use as a training platform, something FSX is not, even though the lines between the two are pretty blurred at this point.

Anyone who can clarify this, by all means jump in and correct me.

Cheers,
Thad

[virtuali]

The only caveat I see for Prepare3D, is that according to the sold rights agreement of Microsoft's ESP; (which from what I understood from the past was going to be the next FS11/MSTS2 platform), to Lockheed Martin, was that it could not be used/sold for general public use. Their statement that Prepar3D can be used for non-government, government or commercial purposes leaves me to believe this policy has not changed.

That's all on paper, but the only thing they can do to enforce this policy, it's just pricing it outside the reach of the normal consumer so it won't compete with MS offerings simply because the price difference would automatically put it into a different market.

But nobody will stop any casual user from spending 499$ for fun or, as an alternative, enroll into the developers program at 9.95$/month (which includes a license to use the program for yourself too) without developing anything.

About the commercial usage license, I think many are getting it backwards: it's not that ESP or Prepare3D *must* be used in a commercial environment, it was the opposite, it's Flightsim (FSX) that COULD NOT! You can't, for example, build a rig based on FSX and asking people money to use it, because the FSX license prevented this, the whole point of offering ESP was that you would be legally in the clear by using FSX in a commercial setting.

But, nowhere in the ESP or Prepare3D license is indicated you CAN'T use it for personal reasons or just for fun...

[Highiron]

Interesting points Umberto.

I am aware that FSX has no commercial use, and that it's not FAA certified so this has never been a issue of confusion for me. Since you have been involved in Beta testing of the ESP software, can you provide any insight into its performance? Does it use newer system resources better? Is it more stable? Is it better than FSX, or is it just FSX re-branded?

After looking at the capabilities of the software, I'm puzzled why there hasn't been more interest in this product. It seems to provide the opportunities to third party developers that they would like to have in FSX, and it has the continuous support of dedicated Lockheed Martin staff, something we struggle with all the time with M.S. Flight simulator products and it appears to cover future updates without additional charges. So setting aside the $499 or $9.95 per month layout, what's holding it back? It's FSX on steroids with incredible capabilities.

[cmpbllsjc]

So setting aside the $499 or $9.95 per month layout, what's holding it back?

Probaby the fact that:

a. a lot of people might not even know about it, speaking more of the non-enthusiast general user who doesn't spend time reading the forums or buying addons
b. misconceptions that the general public is not allowed to buy it
c. unknowns about what FSX addons will or wont work with it, and if the said FSX addon will work with P3D, how to install that addon without a proper 3PD installer
d. the fact that some people don't want to shell out the $499 or $10 per month
e. some people are happy enough with the performance of FSX that they dont feel the need.


For me personally, I haven't really investigated it too much mainly because of the addon compatibility questions and the fact that I am generally happy with FSX as it stands. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't like to get more performance or better looks out FSX, but until more and more of use FSX users start switching to P3D and can give some reports on if performance is that much better and if there are generally no problems using the majority of leading FSX addons, ie, FSDT, FT, PMDG, REX, etc., then I will just sit tight.

I must say that I wouldn't mind spending the $10 a month if it was truely a much better product. Plus I like the fact that the P3D guys are constantly working on making the product better rather than just launching it, then provinding a few SP's then being done with it until the next version come out, like FSX or FS9.

I imagine that only time will tell. We still have Flight to evaluate if or when it comes to market. There have been some unsubstanciated rumors lately that Flight has been cancelled, while I don't belive it until I get official word from MS, I suppose that its not entirely impossible that it could be cancelled or put on hold, in which case it migh make a more compelling argument to take a closer look at P3D. The fact that ORBX is already working on it would lead me to believe that other leading developers like FSDt could be as well or might be in the future.

[B777ER]

I just started looking up this P3D. It looks like a really good sim. In fact if I knew everything I have scenery-wise would work in it with some PMDG aircraft, I would switch over to that right now. I have read that some ex-Aces guys are tweaking it to run even better and with DX11 support. Supposedly version 1.2 is on the way (unk time frame). Umberto, will the FSDT stuff work in it now? If not, will FSDT start looking at making their software viable in that platform sooner rather than later?

[virtuali]

Umberto, will the FSDT stuff work in it now? If not, will FSDT start looking at making their software viable in that platform sooner rather than later?

Not now, we would need to port both the Addon Manager and Couatl program to it, and probably update all the installers too.

About supporting it in the future, we are a bit in a wait and see attitude.