Author Topic: Scenery details popping up  (Read 7804 times)

mikael1984

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Scenery details popping up
« on: September 19, 2008, 05:17:19 pm »
Hi!
I installed and started up JFK and I cannot see the ground vehicles (at gates) or the high detailed scenery until I come very close to a gate. Then the details pops up. In KORD I could see many gates away from the user AC with high detailed scenery but in JFK it's more narrow.

I know that fsdreamteam makes this for the ones with a medium computers, in order to get good fps, but personally it's annoying that I cannot change this... On every photo seen in the backdoor threads I can see beautiful photos of rich details.. But while "flying" I don't see this until I am very close... It takes away the fun.

So a suggestion would be to let this be an option. For me I don't see a large performance hit when showing or not showing the high detailed scenery. Else I would have bought the whole fsdreamteam airport package...

My specs:
Dual Core @ 4.8GHz
4GB 1066MHz
Nvidia 8800GTS 512MB

Sp2. Scenery settings very high.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2008, 05:27:20 pm by mikael1984 »

virtuali

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Re: Scenery details popping up
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2008, 05:26:54 pm »
I cannot see the ground vehicles (at gates) or the high detailed scenery until I come very close to a gate. Then the details pops up. In KORD I could see many gates away from the user AC with high detailed scenery but in JFK it's more narrow.

That's called Level of Detail (LOD), and is the only way to make the scenery running fine in this problematic area (JFK is slow, even with no addons). It's not a defect, it's a great scenery feature that should be always used.

The actual distance is not the same as O'Hare, because the two sceneries are very different: O'hare lies in an area with less fps problems and, having a bigger surface with terminals all spread out, means it easier to optimize LOD distances without noticing it too much. At JFK, terminals are much closer to each one and the area is already slower even with no scenery, this means the LOD switching distances should be kept a little bit tighter.

Some users are more sensitive to the switching of LOD than others, we usually prefer to give priority to fps first. The general design strategy is not cut away features when not needed. Do you need yellow taxilines while flying ? Not, that's why they are cut above a certain altitude. The same goes for vehicels, boxes, and all kind of ground detail that is needed only when taxiing.


mikael1984

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Re: Scenery details popping up
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2008, 08:45:46 pm »

That's called Level of Detail (LOD), and is the only way to make the scenery running fine in this problematic area (JFK is slow, even with no addons). It's not a defect, it's a great scenery feature that should be always used.

The actual distance is not the same as O'Hare, because the two sceneries are very different: O'hare lies in an area with less fps problems and, having a bigger surface with terminals all spread out, means it easier to optimize LOD distances without noticing it too much. At JFK, terminals are much closer to each one and the area is already slower even with no scenery, this means the LOD switching distances should be kept a little bit tighter.

Some users are more sensitive to the switching of LOD than others, we usually prefer to give priority to fps first. The general design strategy is not cut away features when not needed. Do you need yellow taxilines while flying ? Not, that's why they are cut above a certain altitude. The same goes for vehicels, boxes, and all kind of ground detail that is needed only when taxiing.

I don't need to see the details when flying at a high altitude. But, while on ground I would appriciate at least the same view distance as KORD. But, is it not possible to make options so the user could choose if the distance should be wide or narrow?
I understand that fps is a priority but what about the high end users? Should they not benefit from the excellent products fsdreamteam brings?

What if Microsoft did the same thing with FSX? Then no one could use it's full potensial, but everyone will have 100fps, everywhere. For what good?
Instead they use sliders so the user can change the settings so it would fit the computers prestanda. That would be the best choice for everyone.

If I can make a comparison to other developers that have the same problem. They solved it with options and it works. (Please don't say: Why don't you go and buy their products?.. Because they have not released KORD; KFJK..)

Your product is excellent up close, but at distance I feel it's just ground layer and buildings... 

virtuali

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Re: Scenery details popping up
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2008, 09:55:47 pm »
What if Microsoft did the same thing with FSX? Then no one could use it's full potensial, but everyone will have 100fps, everywhere. For what good?

That's exactly what should have happened. The only real issue in FSX is that they allowed TOO MUCH freedom to the user to destroy the frame rate. This backfired on FSX because users prefer to bash it as "slow", rather than accepting to put sliders down.


Quote
Instead they use sliders so the user can change the settings so it would fit the computers prestanda. That would be the best choice for everyone.

The LOD switching distance can't be settable at run time. It's embedded in the MDL, and it would need the object to be recompiled to change it.

The only thing that we might be able to set, is the absolute loading distance of an object, but not the individual LOD distances inside an object, which I believe this is what your are asking for.

At JFK (and KORD as well), SOME objects are loaded independently, with their own absolute range, and this we can easily tweak, even in real time. But others are not independent object, but rather embedded LOD levels, and these we can't control in real time and let the user customize it.


mikael1984

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Re: Scenery details popping up
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2008, 11:02:38 pm »

The LOD switching distance can't be settable at run time. It's embedded in the MDL, and it would need the object to be recompiled to change it.

The only thing that we might be able to set, is the absolute loading distance of an object, but not the individual LOD distances inside an object, which I believe this is what your are asking for.

At JFK (and KORD as well), SOME objects are loaded independently, with their own absolute range, and this we can easily tweak, even in real time. But others are not independent object, but rather embedded LOD levels, and these we can't control in real time and let the user customize it.

So is this something that the team could do?If so, what time frame are we talking about?

virtuali

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Re: Scenery details popping up
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2008, 11:55:25 pm »
So is this something that the team could do?If so, what time frame are we talking about?

We could do it, but it will not be settable by the users as you were asking for, all users will have to accept a setting that is the same for anyone.

Since we want everyone with an half-decent PC, not just the top of the line ones, being able to enjoy the scenery, we think the distance we choose for LOD switching are a good compromise for everyone.