Author Topic: Proper airline grounds crew  (Read 3708 times)

fsxking08

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Proper airline grounds crew
« on: July 15, 2013, 10:23:19 pm »
How would I be able to make GSX use the proper airline grounds crew? I just arrived at Denver (KDEN) for United and I parked at gate B18 in concourse B with default scenery flying the Aerosoft Airbus X Extended A320, and I looked at google maps to see where United parks and at gate B18 there is a United 737 in the spot. I've also noticed this at other airports, like KPHX. I have the Flightbeam KPHX scenery for Phoenix and when I park in the Southwest Terminal (Terminal 4 D and C gates) it just has the airport ground services and not even an airline.

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virtuali

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Re: Proper airline grounds crew
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2013, 01:50:34 am »
This has been discussed many times on the forum, and of course is also explained on the manual and in the PaintKit in more detail.

First, keep in mind the airplane livery you are flying doesn't have any effect on the choice of the ground operator. There are several good reasons for this.

Both because not many airplane developers use the atc_airline_code in the aircraft.cfg to include the correct ICAO code for the airline so, trying to detect the airline could be unreliable, because lots of developers put the airline name in different places, like the airplane title or other places, instead of using the proper place, which is the atc_airline_code field, using the more reliable ICAO code.

But the more important reason why the airline you are flying doesn't control ground crew, is that it would be just wrong if it did. The ground crew is a service that is related to the parking spot, you can't expect having your home crew whenever you fly and regardless if your airline *has* ground personnel there or not. This is especially true when flying internationally: you would't expect seeing a Lufthansa crew in Japan, if you fly your LH airplane there...

So, GSX correctly links the ground crew choice to the atc_airline_codes parameter of the PARKING spot.

And, as explained on the manual, there's a scoring system used, and if there's a tie in candidates, the choice is random between all candidates with an equal score. A crew that has a matching atc_airline_codes in the parking, will get an higher score than a crew that only matches the airport. But again, if you have many airlines on the atc_airline_codes field of your scenery, the selection will be random again between all matching ones.

So, the crew selection basically depends on the airport and the atc_airline_codes of the parking spot.

fsxking08

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Re: Proper airline grounds crew
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2013, 06:11:56 am »
I'm sorry but did you even read my post? I parked in a parking spot where the airline I was flying parks in real life. At gate B18 at Denver INTL airport United has a parking spot, they do in the entire concourse B, and I parked at gate B18 at Denver INTL airport, in concrouse B. I'm assuming based on your reply you just read my title and assumed it was like those other posts that I have read, where people want their airline to service them and they want to choose who services them. Nowhere in my post did I ask if I could hand pick who I want, I asked how I can get the proper grounds crew to service where they should in real life. Frontier does not park at gate B18, so why is Frontier servicing at gate B18? GSX is supposed to be realistic, but how is it realistic when Frontier is servicing a United gate? Please actually read my post and dont asume, again, I am NOT asking if I can just cherry pick what grounds crew services my plane, I'm asking how to make the airline's ground crew service spots that the real airline services, because at gate B18 at Denver airport Frontier doesn't service the spot, United does.

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virtuali

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Re: Proper airline grounds crew
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2013, 12:30:26 pm »
I'm sorry but did you even read my post?

Yes, of course. In fact, if you replying this way, it seems you haven't ready my reply carefully enough.

Quote
I'm assuming based on your reply you just read my title and assumed it was like those other posts that I have read, where people want their airline to service them and they want to choose who services them. Nowhere in my post did I ask if I could hand pick who I want, I asked how I can get the proper grounds crew to service where they should in real life.

Nothing in my reply answered to a question about manually selecting the operator. If anything, I've assumed you asked if the livery your are flying for, had any effect on the operator selection, which seemed to be the case, since you wrote this:

Quote
I just arrived at Denver (KDEN) for United

Which is why I assumed if you were asking why you didn't see United servicing, when you flew "for" them, so the 1st part of my reply answered to that.

Quote
Frontier does not park at gate B18, so why is Frontier servicing at gate B18? GSX is supposed to be realistic, but how is it realistic when Frontier is servicing a United gate? Please actually read my post and dont asume, again, I am NOT asking if I can just cherry pick what grounds crew services my plane, I'm asking how to make the airline's ground crew service spots that the real airline services, because at gate B18 at Denver airport Frontier doesn't service the spot, United does.

Everything you asked was contained in my first reply, the 2nd part, coupled the suggestion to read the PaintKit documentation, gave you all the answers you wanted. Let's go at it again:

From my first reply:

Quote
as explained on the manual, there's a scoring system used, and if there's a tie in candidates, the choice is random between all candidates with an equal score. A crew that has a matching atc_airline_codes in the parking, will get an higher score than a crew that only matches the airport. But again, if you have many airlines on the atc_airline_codes field of your scenery, the selection will be random again between all matching ones.

As you can see, nothing here is assuming you wanted to manually choose an operator. But it gave you all the informations you wanted to know WHY, to quote our example of why Frontier appears at Denver B18, when it shouldn't, which you assumed being a GSX problem.

From the previous explanation, it should have been obvious that GSX just relies on the SCENERY AFCAD, to get any information about what is supposed to park there or not. The most important parameter is the atc_parking_codes in the AFCAD for that parking.

Now, you don't say which Denver scenery you used so, assuming you use the default Denver in from FSX, the default sceneries don't have ANY atc_parking_codes to begin with! Of course, without any atc_parking_codes, GSX can't obviously make out a *difference* between parking spots, how else could it get that information from, if it's missing ? atc_parking_codes are *usually* present only in 3rd party scenery.

It's not that GSX wouldn't work without atc_parking_codes, but in that case, every gate at every airport will treated equally so, as long as an operator is in the allowed list for that airport, it will have a (random) chance to be selected on that airport.

As I've said, and as explained on the manual (both the GSX normal manual AND in more detail in the PaintKit manual), it's a SCORING system.

There's a base score for the number of characters that matches the operator with the ICAO if the airport, which means since the Frontier vehicles in GSX have the whole KDEN in their own sim.cfg, they have a base score of 4. So is United, which also have a base score of 4. Since there are no other vehicles in GSX that matches KDEN with 4 chars, the two operators (FFT and UAL) with the highest score will get an equal chance to be selected for service.

Again, lacking any better information about specific parkings (which is supposed to come from the atc_parking_codes in the parking spot, from the scenery AFCAD), GSX can't obviously do any better than this. Both UAL and FFT are of course present at KDEN, so this is a reasonable solution, if your scenery doesn't come with atc_parking_codes in its parking spots.

Now, the obvious conclusion to this explanation (which more or less duplicates the one in the PaintKit documentation, which I've suggested to read in my first reply), is that in order to get a more realistic representation of different parking assignment along the same airport, you have to rely on the atc_parking_codes, and eventually edit the AFCAD, either to fix them if they are wrong, or add them from scratch, if you are using a default airport that don't contain any of them.

To continue your example, in your case, to get rid of FFT at Denver B18 and any other gate that belongs to UAL there, it would have been enough to add UAL as the atc_parking_codes to all those United parkings, using an AFCAD editor such ADE or AFX. This would result GSX giving a score boost for UAL at those parkings, so they would always "win" against FFT there.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2013, 12:33:13 pm by virtuali »