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Author Topic: Why? Why? :-(  (Read 18363 times)
jgoggi
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« on: April 29, 2013, 09:28:44 AM »

Dear FSDreamTeam, why didn't you develop Rome Fiumicino airport? It would have been a wonderful scenery, a great success, all Italian simmers (at least) would have greatly enjoyed it! It would have really been a dream (fsDREAMteam, indeed...). The real life situation is instead well different, an Aerosoft FS9 scenery come out almost 3 months ago that is probably the worst scenery sold by Aerosoft, full of bugs and low quality textures and an FSX "ghost" scenery that nobody knows if under development (not a single screenshot posted, after 1 and half years since the announcement of the project) and that, even if will be released, will only be an FS9 portover with the same bugs...
Really sad :-(
 
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virtuali
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« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2013, 12:19:37 PM »

Dear FSDreamTeam, why didn't you develop Rome Fiumicino airport?

Because US sceneries sells many (really, many) times more. Last time we did an italian scenery some years ago, it was Florence and it was published by Aerosoft. You would imagine that an airport of one of the most worldwide known italian cities, with a spectacular and difficult approach, a complete nearby city modeled in 3d included and with an extremely good frame rate, published by reputable publisher such as Aerosoft, would sell good. Well, guess again, because it sold less in 3 years than what JFK (but even Zurich) sold in the first 24 hours after its original release.

Since it would take just the same amount of time/effort doing LIRF compared to any other similarly sized US airport, it's clear it won't make any economic sense for us doing it.

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It would have been a wonderful scenery, a great success, all Italian simmers (at least) would have greatly enjoyed it! It would have really been a dream (fsDREAMteam, indeed...).

Unfortunately, italian simmers are either too few, or don't buy that much, or a combination of the two. And not because we offer products they might not be not interested into: we have two products (XPOI and, especially, GSX, which is our best selling product right now) that are not country-related, so we can have a clear picture how many simmers are out there. The true reality is that 80% of users are in the US, and the remaining 20% is split between Germany, UK, France and Canada. Italian are maybe 2% of the total, we sell more in countries such as Norway, Sweden and Denmark, although their population is a tiny fraction of Italy...

But you have some ways to make us changing our minds: go buy Aerosoft Florence en-masse, we'll surely notice it!

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The real life situation is instead well different, an Aerosoft FS9 scenery come out almost 3 months ago that is probably the worst scenery sold by Aerosoft, full of bugs and low quality textures and an FSX "ghost" scenery that nobody knows if under development

As you might know, Aerosoft publishes many products made by many different developers, so the resulting quality varies a lot depending on who made it. They know the market well too, don't you think that, if they really believed in a Fiumicino airport product, they would assign it to one of their best developers ?
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jgoggi
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« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2013, 10:07:39 AM »

Well, I guess that Florence did not have a great success because the airport has a short runway and only few types of aircraft can land in it. The majority of simmers, that is all those flying the 737, the MD80, the A320, not to speak of bigger airplanes, are excluded from flying to that airport...
I agree with you that Aerosoft gave very little importance to Fiumicino, and they did not assign it to their best developers, but I am still convinced that they made a mistake! People from all over the world want to fly to Fiumicino, and I am sure that a well done scenery would have gained quite a huge success. I can't believe that some completely or almost completely unknown airports that have been released by software houses like Aerosoft could be more successful worldwide than Rome's airport....
Anyway if that is your choice, I respect it, even if I do not agree.
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virtuali
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« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2013, 10:23:26 AM »

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Well, I guess that Florence did not have a great success because the airport has a short runway and only few types of aircraft can land in it. The majority of simmers, that is all those flying the 737, the MD80, the A320, not to speak of bigger airplanes, are excluded from flying to that airport...

Then probably even Orbx is wrong and they like to lose money, since they only release GA airports for airplane type far smaller than what can land in Florence, in places nobody ever heard of...

I agree with you that Aerosoft gave very little importance to Fiumicino, and they did not assign it to their best developers, but I am still convinced that they made a mistake!

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Anyway if that is your choice, I respect it, even if I do not agree.

It seems that all developers makes mistakes in their choices...don't you think, if Italy was a viable market, we would have many products released by now ? The first rule of any free market is: if there's some market potential, someone will enter into it.
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soundman
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« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2013, 07:01:13 PM »

If it's any consolation, I ( and probably the vast number of people here ) will buy any airport your team develops.
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jgoggi
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« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2013, 02:00:53 PM »

Bah, I think you can't compare a small regional airport like Florence with JFK and I am frankly still convinced that Fiumicino would sell a lot all over the world. I remember that the Cloud9 Rome Scenery had a great success, didn't it? And I think that all simmers had/have, in their FS9, the free ISDProject LIRF scenery... This means that Fiumicino is a desired airport and you will never convince me that all those almost unknown airports released by Aerosoft and co. would sell more than Fiumicino!
Now I don't know how the Aerosoft LIRF for FS9 is going, but, should it not sell well, I think it's because of the low quality, the bugs and the lack of precision, not because people don't want to buy LIRF...
Anyway, once again, it's your choice...
   
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Hnla
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« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2013, 03:42:42 PM »

Dude, FSDT has given you a LIST of FACS on why they didn't develop your airport, and you respond with a reply full of your opinions..

There ISN'T a market for LIRF !
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virtuali
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« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2013, 03:49:27 PM »

Bah, I think you can't compare a small regional airport like Florence with JFK

The comparison with JFK was just to show how we could outsell historical Florence sales just in A DAY. But comparing total sales, Kalahui/Kona sold more than Florence, about 4:1. There goes your theory about the "small regional airport that doesn't sell", unless you were trying to say that Kona is more worldwide known than *Florence* Huh

We obviously wouldn't expect JFK sales from Florence, but if a small regional airport in the US sells 4 TIMES MORE than a small regional airport in Italy, what reasons would we had to believe that a large hub in Italy would magically sell like a large hub in the US ?

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I remember that the Cloud9 Rome Scenery had a great success, didn't it?

Not really. Alessando, the original designer, works for us now, and he doesn't remember it very fondly, from the financial side.


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And I think that all simmers had/have, in their FS9, the free ISDProject LIRF scenery...

"Having" doesn't always translate into "Purchasing". You can't beat freeware, and the usual mistake is basing the  potential or a commercial product based on the popularity of a similar freeware offering.

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This means that Fiumicino is a desired airport and you will never convince me that all those almost unknown airports released by Aerosoft and co. would sell more than Fiumicino!

You should ask this to Aerosoft. We don't usually do "unknown airports", but even when we do, such as Kona, they HAVE sold more than comparably-sized airports in Italy.

It's not that we haven't tried: we haven't done just Florence, our designers in the past made Aviano, Rivolto, Reggio Calabria, Bologna, Turin, Elba, Fly the Lakes. NONE of these was able to surpass sales of the much smaller Kona.

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Now I don't know how the Aerosoft LIRF for FS9 is going, but, should it not sell well, I think it's because of the low quality, the bugs and the lack of precision, not because people don't want to buy LIRF...

That's the opposite way around: since Aerosoft *knows* that LIRF wouldn't sell that much anyway, they haven't assigned it to their best developers: why wasting their time, when they can work on something more profitable, like the next version of German airports ?

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Anyway, once again, it's your choice...

It's a choice that has been driven by market experience.
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eastern
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« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2013, 01:06:34 AM »

Umberto,
I’m sorry but did not know you and your team developed Florence. I have always bought FSDT products via your website. Now that I know you and your team developed it I will purchase it. Is their a reason why Florence was not available to purchase via FSDT web-sight? I would rather ensure money goes to FSDT for continued future development that I enjoy. 
I respect your decisions on continuing your work with North American airports and truly enjoy them.
You never know perhaps the market will come to their sense and drive Italian airports into demand. Until then default Italian airports will do. Thank you and your team for providing amazing add-ons and amazing customer service. 
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 01:56:02 AM by eastern » Logged

Lindbergh72
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« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2013, 08:43:26 AM »

Bah, I think you can't compare a small regional airport like Florence with JFK and I am frankly still convinced that Fiumicino would sell a lot all over the world. I remember that the Cloud9 Rome Scenery had a great success, didn't it? And I think that all simmers had/have, in their FS9, the free ISDProject LIRF scenery... This means that Fiumicino is a desired airport and you will never convince me that all those almost unknown airports released by Aerosoft and co. would sell more than Fiumicino!
Now I don't know how the Aerosoft LIRF for FS9 is going, but, should it not sell well, I think it's because of the low quality, the bugs and the lack of precision, not because people don't want to buy LIRF...
Anyway, once again, it's your choice...
   

First they should drop FS9, that's why the lack of quality. Second, they can go higher in textures if they only make it for FSX/P3D
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virtuali
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« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2013, 09:29:28 AM »

Is their a reason why Florence was not available to purchase via FSDT web-sight?

It was made before the FSDT name and website existed and in fact, is listed as being developed by "Virtuali s.a.s" on Aerosoft site, because FSDT wasn't even born back then, and we also had our hands full working for Microsoft at the F/A-18, so it was convenient not have to worry about publishing and support.

We thought that a scenery of one of the most famous cities in Italy, with an interesting approach, a city fully modeled in 3d, with fast fps too, sold by a very well known publisher, would fare quite well...but apparently not. And this was one of the reasons why we decided to start FSDT and doing everything internally instead of relying on a publisher.
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eastern
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« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2013, 02:07:48 AM »

Umberto thank you for the explanation and background.   
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srcooke
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« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2013, 11:53:06 AM »

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The true reality is that 80% of users are in the US, and the remaining 20% is split between Germany, UK, France and Canada

Possibly as 80% of the marketed scenery's are targeted at the American market ! Smiley
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Regards
Stephen Cooke
virtuali
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« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2013, 03:15:32 PM »

Possibly as 80% of the marketed scenery's are targeted at the American market ! Smiley

We started doing European stuff. If it was true (and it isn't) that doing european stuff would be more commercially feasible, we would go back to it.

And note that, "Europe" for the PC market, really means 60% Germany/Switzerland, 20% UK and 20% divided amongst all the remaining ones. Since there are already lots of established scenery products for Germany and UK (guess why, it's not that only we can read stats...), we would either start to compete with them, so users will complain about the need for ANOTHER Frankfurt or Heathrow, or we would have to lose time chasing the less interesting markets.

And of course, we have two products that are not "local", which are GSX and XPOI. And guess what, even for those products that are not related to a specific place, the users distribution is still overwhelmingly in favor of the US.

Perhaps, in case Kickstarter will ever open in Italy (not likely in the short term), we might start a Kickstarter campaign for Rome Fiumicino or Milan Malpensa, and see how it goes...
« Last Edit: May 10, 2013, 03:22:17 PM by virtuali » Logged

srcooke
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« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2013, 04:09:34 PM »

I had to make a play on your statistics Umberto Smiley, of course you know your market.

That said I reside in the UK and have a few of your State-side scenery's along with GSX plus Geneva a European scenery Wink

And of course I greatly enjoy your products.
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Regards
Stephen Cooke
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