Author Topic: ATIS Errors **solved, not a problem**  (Read 6649 times)

QFA747

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ATIS Errors **solved, not a problem**
« on: January 28, 2013, 12:58:11 am »
At both PHLI (Lihue) and PHNL (Honolulu) the ATIS is not showing correctly.  It goes OK, but when it gets to the landing and departing runways it runs amok with runways that don't exist.  At Lihue, the departing runway was 3 but then it just kept going creating runways 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, ...  Same thing happens at Honolulu.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 01:20:37 pm by virtuali »

virtuali

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Re: ATIS Errors
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2013, 01:20:22 pm »
As explained many times already on the forum, this is not obviously a "problem" of the scenery, but it's a very well known method to allow proper crosswind operations, it's called the "Star-technique", and it's used by many scenery developers to overcome limitations in the Flight sim ATC engine with regard of crossed runways.

QFA747

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Re: ATIS Errors **solved, not a problem**
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2013, 09:27:23 am »
Sir, I suggest you will have to explain this error in the simulation to many new people until it is fixed.  I find your answer totally unacceptable and I cannot consider this "solved, not a problem".  This is clearly an error in the simulation that cannot be explained away with your indignation at my pointing it out or assigning it some fancy name as if it is an acceptable "developer's technique".  No other product I have produces this error, so clearly it is associated with your implementation of the simulation.

virtuali

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Re: ATIS Errors **solved, not a problem**
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2013, 10:30:43 am »
Sir, I suggest you will have to explain this error in the simulation to many new people until it is fixed

This is not an error, and doesn't require any "fixing"

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I find your answer totally unacceptable and I cannot consider this "solved, not a problem"

The reply is correct according to the facts.

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This is clearly an error in the simulation

You mean FSX ? Yes, FSX can't handled crossed runways, so every developer that knows this has used this method to overcome that problem. Note that it doesn't have any effect on the ATC, it's JUST the ATIS report that will contains those fake runway names, so that's just a cosmetic effe t.

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that cannot be explained away with your indignation at my pointing it out

I don't see any "indignation", not there was any reasons to have it, because this method is very well known to be a widespread solution.

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or assigning it some fancy name as if it is an acceptable "developer's technique".

It obviously is. Up to the point that, a popular scenery editor used by MANY developers, called ADE (Airport Design for Windows) has even a FUNCTION intended to ease the creation of such dummy runways.

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  No other product I have produces this error

First, it's not an error. And, there a *many* airport sceneries out there that behave like this. Of course, they must have crossed runways: if the airport doesn't have them, there's no use applying it so, the airport must have both crossed runways AND the developer must have chosen to use this method. If you haven't seen it, it only means you don't have any of those products.

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,so clearly it is associated with your implementation of the simulation.

No, it's not. It's associated with an FSX shortcoming, and the strange-looking ATIS message is a side-effect of this. The ATC engine won't use those dummy runways anyway, not for you nor for AI (because they are purposely made extremely short, so no airplane can be assigned to them), so it's not as if your "simulation" is compromised, it's just a cosmetic problem in the ATIS, but there's no way to overcome this, and this is very well known too.

If you still don't believe this method is legit, have a look here:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15432

And here for a complete explanation of it, the file named "Xwind Runway tutorial.zip" in the Tutorials / Airport Design /   folder of this site:

http://www.downloadcenter.scruffyduck.org.uk/

You don't have to read it entirely or even understanding it, it's something directed to scenery developers, it's just to prove you how wrong you are implying that the "Star technique" was something I made up to cover some kind of bug in the scenery, instead of a legit well known method used to overcome an FS9/FSX limitation, which is what it is in fact.

johndrago

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Re: ATIS Errors **solved, not a problem**
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2013, 10:33:21 pm »
Sir, I suggest you will have to explain this error in the simulation to many new people until it is fixed.  I find your answer totally unacceptable and I cannot consider this "solved, not a problem".  This is clearly an error in the simulation that cannot be explained away with your indignation at my pointing it out or assigning it some fancy name as if it is an acceptable "developer's technique".  No other product I have produces this error, so clearly it is associated with your implementation of the simulation.

If you have been part of the flightsim world for any number of years, you would understand that these "fake" runways are the normal and accepted way to simulate cross-wind runway usage.  FSX does not do it by defaullt, thus the 3rd party developers had to find a way.  This is how they all do it.

It's not a problem, it's normal.

John