Author Topic: FS2004 Default Terminal 2/3 .bgl  (Read 78624 times)

gmcg

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Re: FS2004 Default Terminal 2/3 .bgl
« Reply #120 on: November 15, 2012, 06:48:02 am »
Good to know...... I like this idea; promotes good business!

I have another question that now has me wondering about something and hope you can help. The issue that popped up causing non FPS related stutters in FS is the reason why I'm making the move to a new rig. However my last flight on this rig was a day after the win32k.sys bsod. After the bsod I gave the computer a good cleaning. The next day I flew a flight into JFK (FSDT of course). The game play was pretty bad and on descent the stutter was occurring about every two minutes but the FPS was hanging in there on final. Yet the game play was very poor at that point (just wasn't smooth). After shut down I went into the menu for a second and fs gave me the "computer has run out of memory error" which is an error I've NEVER gotten before.

Now as I wait for the new hardware and OS to arrive I've been trying to figure out the "why" and was wondering if you could help since I really don't know computers and it was a FSDT airport. All the research I've done points to either a failing harddrive (which would also explain the non-FPS stutter that started to occur every 6ish minutes, for a split second, and the bsod on Friday) or the simple fact that the fs9.exe wasn't patched. Again though I've never had this error, ever, out of all the years I've flown fs9 on XP 32bit with add-ons, so I don't think the exe not being patched was the issue but I'm not sure.

Thoughts as to what could have caused the memory error since my research has covered the full spectrum?

Thanks for all the help!
« Last Edit: November 15, 2012, 06:51:10 am by gmcg »

virtuali

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Re: FS2004 Default Terminal 2/3 .bgl
« Reply #121 on: November 15, 2012, 11:00:37 am »
Thoughts as to what could have caused the memory error since my research has covered the full spectrum?

From your description of the problem, everything seems to be very consistent:

- Your combination of scenery settings and addons installed required a lot of memory.

- Under a 32 bit OS, regardless of how much total RAM you have, everything (OS, all apps running including FS9 and it's addons) will have to *share* 4GB of RAM maximum. On top of that, the VRAM on your video card will *subtract* from that available memory so, with a 1GB video card, you have roughly 2.6 GB available for all your apps, as soon Windows starts. It's not the full 3GB, because other resources (like mainboard cards, bios, firmwares, etc.) will map into that memory too. And of course, Windows itself has already loaded drivers and basic services when it starts, so by the time it has finished loading, you have about 2.5-2.6GB free for your apps.

- If you haven't patched FS9.EXE to use 3GB, you don't even have those 2.6GB, you have 2GB for FS9. But even if you had, that patch can't create memory out of thin air: on a 32 bit OS you would never be able to use more than those 2.6GB anyway.

- When the system is low on memory (total allocation went more than 4GB) it will SWAP to the hard drive, using it as a memory buffer. THIS will cause heavy stutters, since hard drive access is about 100 times slower than from RAM. Even SSDs are slower than real RAM (although are of course much better than mechanical hdd)

- If your hard drive was either low on available space or, even worse, defective (and you are shortening its life by making it swapping a lot), having kernel errors and blue screens is very likely.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2012, 11:04:14 am by virtuali »

gmcg

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Re: FS2004 Default Terminal 2/3 .bgl
« Reply #122 on: November 20, 2012, 03:48:47 am »
So please forgive my continued ignorance but I just want to confirm....

1) Win7-64bit
2) 16 GB Ram
3) 500MB HDD / 64 GB Cache
4) FS9.exe patched to largeaddressaware

All four of these will work together and should prevent OOM errors when running the sim at reasonable settings correct? Just trying to make sure since I never had a OOM error before and want to make sure to not have one again.

Thanks!

virtuali

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Re: FS2004 Default Terminal 2/3 .bgl
« Reply #123 on: November 20, 2012, 04:36:17 pm »
All four of these will work together and should prevent OOM errors when running the sim at reasonable settings correct?

Yes, that's the best you can do with FS9.

Of course, if your combination of installed addons will exceed 4GB of RAM, you will have an OOM in any case, but I'm not aware of FS9 addons being so memory hungry.

gmcg

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Re: FS2004 Default Terminal 2/3 .bgl
« Reply #124 on: November 20, 2012, 08:31:38 pm »
So actually wouldn't it be the 4gb of ram plus whatever the virtual memory is correct? Also its 4gb of ram and the vmem all at once correct?

Sorry for all these questions, I'm just trying to learn this stuff so I don't have to keep having my hand held.

virtuali

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Re: FS2004 Default Terminal 2/3 .bgl
« Reply #125 on: November 20, 2012, 09:49:44 pm »
So actually wouldn't it be the 4gb of ram plus whatever the virtual memory is correct? Also its 4gb of ram and the vmem all at once correct?

Yes, a 32 bit app under a 64 bit OS can't allocate more than 4GB or RAM, regardless of how much physical or virtual memory you have. Only a true 64 bit app (which neither FS9 or FSX are) can use all the RAM you got.

However, is still worth using a 64 bit OS because, under a 32 bit OS, a total of 4GB would have been shared between everything, Windows, all other running apps, drivers, everything.

gmcg

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Re: FS2004 Default Terminal 2/3 .bgl
« Reply #126 on: November 20, 2012, 10:23:17 pm »
Ok so its 4gb of memory total, not 4gb of ram and like 2gb of vmem. So in normal everyday fs use I should never use 4gb all at once unless the scenery has a memory leak correct? I know this isn't part of the forum anymore but is there an easy way to tell if there is a memory leak? I'd assume getting a OOM error would be one but then that would make me wonder why I got one going into JFK.

There must be a hardware issue or something that caused fs to not recycle the memory like it normally does.

Thanks for the help..... Seems this new hardware and OS will plow right thru any possible OOM issues!

virtuali

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Re: FS2004 Default Terminal 2/3 .bgl
« Reply #127 on: November 20, 2012, 11:12:33 pm »
So in normal everyday fs use I should never use 4gb all at once unless the scenery has a memory leak correct?

Unless SOMETHING has a memory leak and, the less likely candidates it's the scenery, since 3d objects might be corrupted/wrong and in this case should cause an immediate crash, but a memory leak is something that needs time, and it's usually related to actual code, like those founds in airplane gauges.

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I know this isn't part of the forum anymore but is there an easy way to tell if there is a memory leak?

Yes, run Process Explorer ( a free utility from Microsoft ), and check if your memory usage keeps going up over time, without doing anything, like just sitting on the runway doing nothing.


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I'd assume getting a OOM error would be one but then that would make me wonder why I got one going into JFK.

We discussed this many times already: if you are still running a 32 bit OS, with a 1GB card, you have 4GB that must be shared between *everything*, so OOM in an area like JFK, which is very complex, might be possible with many addons running, without this being CAUSED by the scenery.

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There must be a hardware issue or something that caused fs to not recycle the memory like it normally does.

A memory leak is never an hardware problem, an hardware problem like a defective ram chip will likely cause hard blue-screen crashes.

gmcg

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Re: FS2004 Default Terminal 2/3 .bgl
« Reply #128 on: November 20, 2012, 11:50:05 pm »
Understood.... Like I said though, I got a win32k.sys bsod before the flight which is making me suspect hardware played a part in some way.

I totally understand about JFK; just a coincidence I gather since it never happened before. Old, outdated hardware and old OS as my friend says.

Thanks for all the help; very fast and thorough support.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2012, 11:57:49 pm by gmcg »