CYVR OOM when using PMDG NGX and ORBX PNW

[irishcurse]

Completed a flight using the QW757. I would rather just not use the NGX there instead of messing with my system that hasn't had a OOM error since I got it 3 years ago. I am a payware snob so my rig is loaded.

[Larry]

In the FWIW department:

I'm running Win7-64 with a 2GB 670GT.  I got the OOM within 5 minutes sitting at A4.  I have PNW, the NGX, UT2 (0% GA, 100% airline), UTX, GEX.  I also have REX but only use the 1024 textures.  I also use TrackIR.  Following the suggestions here I:

1) Turned on DX10 and applied Steve Parson's Shader Release 3.2.2
2) Set Autogen to Sparse (from Very Dense)

I saved an NGX flight on downwind to 26L (I did not run REX with the test) at about Fix YVR13.  I loaded the flight and after the NGX initialized I engaged LNAV to turn to NOXOB and stayed in CMD until about 980' AGL and hand-flew the landing.  I ran this about a dozen times trying various settings but found that only DX10 and Autogen made any significant diffference.

I ran in Windowed mode so I could monitor the memory size in Process Explorer.  Total max Virtual Size dropped from 4 GB to 3.3 GB.  I also tried autogen Sparse with DX9 and the Virtual Size was 3.8.  The sim always froze for 1-3 seconds as it turned onto final at NOXOB.  I have my frames locked at 24 and I averaged 20 on final.  After turning off to taxi back to A4, my frames would drop to about 18 while I was looking the beautiful terminals as I taxied by.

Next I'll see how it behaves after flights from PAKT and KSFO.  I've had many OOMs with Orbx at YMML, YBBN, and YSCB, and the FSDT KLAX after long flights.   The DX10/Autogen combo may well take care of those, too.  I have to avoid to urge to turn all the knobs up to 11, just because I built a new system.

Larry

[altstiff]

I have to avoid to urge to turn all the knobs up to 11, just because I built a new system.

Larry

Agreed, while the developers may push the envelope, FSX is still a 32bit application and has that darn 4GB limit.

[virtuali]

Some memory test results I've just made, showing the difference between DX9 and DX10 and the impact of having HD textures on (which doesn't affect just CYVR, but everything else that might use 4096x4096 textures)

The tests were made starting with the default C172 at CYVR

After a while, I've loaded UT2services.exe, which started UT at 100% AI

Then, I've loaded the PMDG 737NGX, and measured the occupation when it finished loading, and after looking around in the VC, to have it load all its textures, at least the internal ones

Then, I've switched from fair weather, to the default Rain them, which triggered clouds and rain, and had CYVR switching its objects to the "overcast shadows" variant. That 200MB spike is to be expected, because in order to to horribly disappear in front of you, CYVR objects are first loaded, then exchanged, then the old ones are removed, so they are both present on screen for about 5 seconds. But that memory IS reclaimed correctly, in 5 seconds, which means the scenery is not "leaking".

Then, I've waited for the CYVR Trial time to expire, and observed what left with the PMDG + UT2 still running.

The test was repeated both under DX9 and DX10, which clearly shows DX10 is giving some memory savings.

The 2nd set of screenshots shows the impact of turning on or off HD textures, both in DX9 and DX10.

This indicates:

CYVR takes about 500MB
UT2 takes about 200MB (at CYVR, at this time/date)
PMDG NGX takes about 800MB when fully loaded
Switching textures and shadows in CYVR takes about 200MB for 5 seconds only, IF you switch in flight (not if you prepare the flight with the right weather in advance)
Default Clouds+Rain take about 100MB

DX10 can save about 300MB
HD Textures disabled can save about 200MB

This doesn't includes other addons like PNW, which I personally don't have (but some of our testers have, so I'll ask to repeat it with it), other airports you might have in the area, and doesn't include Vancouver+ too.

But the conclusion is:

- The most consuming item on that test was the PMDG737, at 800MB

- The CYVR entire memory requirements are about 500MB, which is significant, but is about 1/8 (or 12%) of the maximum 4GB limit you have for FSX, in total. I believe it's fair to say a detailed airport should be allowed to take 12% of the total available memory for itself.

- By turning on DX10 and turning off HD textures, you can save as much memory (300+200 = 500MB) as the ENTIRE CYVR airport, this means you HAVE options.

[Andrew737]

Completed a flight using the QW757. I would rather just not use the NGX there instead of messing with my system that hasn't had a OOM error since I got it 3 years ago. I am a payware snob so my rig is loaded.

Fair Enough

[DJJose]

Some memory test results I've just made, showing the difference between DX9 and DX10 and the impact of having HD textures on (which doesn't affect just CYVR, but everything else that might use 4096x4096 textures)

The tests were made starting with the default C172 at CYVR

After a while, I've loaded UT2services.exe, which started UT at 100% AI

Then, I've loaded the PMDG 737NGX, and measured the occupation when it finished loading, and after looking around in the VC, to have it load all its textures, at least the internal ones

Then, I've switched from fair weather, to the default Rain them, which triggered clouds and rain, and had CYVR switching its objects to the "overcast shadows" variant. That 200MB spike is to be expected, because in order to to horribly disappear in front of you, CYVR objects are first loaded, then exchanged, then the old ones are removed, so they are both present on screen for about 5 seconds. But that memory IS reclaimed correctly, in 5 seconds, which means the scenery is not "leaking".

Then, I've waited for the CYVR Trial time to expire, and observed what left with the PMDG + UT2 still running.

The test was repeated both under DX9 and DX10, which clearly shows DX10 is giving some memory savings.

The 2nd set of screenshots shows the impact of turning on or off HD textures, both in DX9 and DX10.

This indicates:

CYVR takes about 500MB
UT2 takes about 200MB (at CYVR, at this time/date)
PMDG NGX takes about 800MB when fully loaded
Switching textures and shadows in CYVR takes about 200MB for 5 seconds only, IF you switch in flight (not if you prepare the flight with the right weather in advance)
Default Clouds+Rain take about 100MB

DX10 can save about 300MB
HD Textures disabled can save about 200MB

This doesn't includes other addons like PNW, which I personally don't have (but some of our testers have, so I'll ask to repeat it with it), other airports you might have in the area, and doesn't include Vancouver+ too.

But the conclusion is:

- The most consuming item on that test was the PMDG737, at 800MB

- The CYVR entire memory requirements are about 500MB, which is significant, but is about 1/8 (or 12%) of the maximum 4GB limit you have for FSX, in total. I believe it's fair to say a detailed airport should be allowed to take 12% of the total available memory for itself.

- By turning on DX10 and turning off HD textures, you can save as much memory (300+200 = 500MB) as the ENTIRE CYVR airport, this means you HAVE options.

Umberto,

Thank you for taking the time to run the tests.

I would really appreciate it if you can explain how I or anyone else can run a test and see if I'm over the 3gig.

I had an OOM about 10 miles south of CYVR (HQ on) using FTX PNW (poles on) and the 737NGX. AI was only at 15%, dense AG, but the weather was hard winter with heavy snow and the flight was conducted in dusk.

Can you also confirm if a better card like a gtx 680 with 4gig is better that my gtx 480 1.5gig for this type of scenery. Will a better card prevent OOM errors or is this system ram related with FSX only being able to use 4gig max?

Thanks for another great add-on

[rsvette12]

I suggest turning down cloud resolutions not a big deal but helps a lot.

[virtuali]

I would really appreciate it if you can explain how I or anyone else can run a test and see if I'm over the 3gig.

We made another test with the help of a tester that has lots of stuff installed:

CYVR
PNW
PMDG737
Vancouver+
UT2 at 100%
Orbx KORS (we found this doesn't affect memory consumption at CYVR, at least not if starting a flight there, maybe it could be different if you overfly it and land at CYVR)

And, we asked him to put every possible slider in FSX all the way to the right, and create a weather situation with 3 overcast layers.

Whenever the situation was, he was never able to surpass 3.2GB in total, and this should give lots of spare room against crashes. And besides, his frame rate was so low (in the low teens, with a fast i7 with a GT670 card), that he would never use such configuration anyway, because he'd start disabling add-ons and turn down settings BEFORE reaching a possible OOM, because the sim was basically unflyable.

He didn't had things like Megascenery and REX and hi-res cloud textures, that might have added up and finally reach the memory limit.

At a certain point, you'll have to start making choices about what to use, this area has a lot of available add-ons, so either turn off some of them when flying *here* or use a less memory-consuming airplane, for example.

[DJJose]

I would really appreciate it if you can explain how I or anyone else can run a test and see if I'm over the 3gig.

We made another test with the help of a tester that has lots of stuff installed:

CYVR
PNW
PMDG737
Vancouver+
UT2 at 100%
Orbx KORS (we found this doesn't affect memory consumption at CYVR, at least not if starting a flight there, maybe it could be different if you overfly it and land at CYVR)

And, we asked him to put every possible slider in FSX all the way to the right, and create a weather situation with 3 overcast layers.

Whenever the situation was, he was never able to surpass 3.2GB in total, and this should give lots of spare room against crashes. And besides, his frame rate was so low (in the low teens, with a fast i7 with a GT670 card), that he would never use such configuration anyway, because he'd start disabling add-ons and turn down settings BEFORE reaching a possible OOM, because the sim was basically unflyable.

He didn't had things like Megascenery and REX and hi-res cloud textures, that might have added up and finally reach the memory limit.

At a certain point, you'll have to start making choices about what to use, this area has a lot of available add-ons, so either turn off some of them when flying *here* or use a less memory-consuming airplane, for example.

After applying the OOM fix and disabling paging, I ran several test flights checking the task manager with 100% AI extreme AG, cloud visibility at 100%, I was able to successfully complete flights without any OOM issues. I noticed 2.7-3.2GB with the 737NGX. BTW, I have KORS and that's has not an issue at all. I can confirm that HQ does use up the memory as you've stated. Thanks again.

I have one thing that I need to resolve, when the scenery initially loads I get two pauses instead of one pause. I normally get one on all FSDT sceneries. Do I need to re-install the Add-on Manager or is this the way it's supposed to load?

[Andrew737]

After applying the OOM fix and disabling paging

Hi

I have applied the mr fixit 'fix' but can you explain what you mean AND how you disable paging please?

Thank you

Andrew

[LuisKMIA]

Over the last 24 hours, I played with disabling startup and background programs for Windows.  I used AVG's PCTuneUp to determine what I can disable without causing problems.

I just started a flight in DX9 mode from FSDT CYVR to MMPR at dawn on a PMDG NGX, running TrackIR 5, ASE, UT2, and ORBX PNW.  My FSX.cfg is based on Kostas's now famous "Software and Hardware Guide" http://forum.avsim.n...-guide-for-fsx/

As of now, I'm 80NM out of Vancouver and well on my way to FL370.   

My next test will be to try to approach, land, and park at CYVR without any OOMs.

[virtuali]

Over the last 24 hours, I played with disabling startup and background programs for Windows.  I used AVG's PCTuneUp to determine what I can disable without causing problems.

Under a 64 bit OS, turning off other background processes won't help anything with OOM in FSX.

Those external applications can address up to 4GB each, and Windows services that are 64 bit, don't even have that limitation. The other .exe running in the system won't affect the memory available to FSX. Even if you don't have too much RAM in total, as long as swapping is enabled and configured to be handled by Windows, the system will never crash, because additional memory will be allocated by simply growing the swap file space. Of course, the system will slow and stutter, but it won't crash.

[Chrjs]

Hi Umberto,

first thank you for this wonderful Scenery! The departure over the city northwards into the mountains is just magnificent.

Im also using the NGX and PNW and have also the OOM problems. Departures are no problem - but approaching can be a problem. Looking at the taskmanager "processes" Mermory column - FSX takes about 2.300 K over the city of Vancouver - then i get about 10miles to CYVR and i get the "load-freeze" (about 3-5sec) and teh load jumps to 3.100-3.400. Continuing the apprroach i get OOM warnings, i can disregards them and continue - unfortunatelly the water turns black and the ground tiles dont load (But still better than a CTD).

But something is strange. Looking at the taskmanager i get the warnings and OOM messages at about 3.200-3.500 K. Having Win7 64 i though a 32-application can take 4gigs of Ram /I would assume 4.000 K in the taskmanager). Or am i looking at the wrong indications?

Maybe you could shed some light on that, until i will use CYVR just as my departure airport.

kind regards,

chris

[bdub24]

Hi,

Just so i understand, When you guys say having too many addons being the problem do you mean too many addons in general or do you mean with a specific radius of a flying area?

I'm getting oom errors also using Prepar3d. Just trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong. I'll sometimes get the oom message before loading up completely using the stock airplane. I've turned down my HD settings as well as turned off the paging file and using the MS Fix it tool. I have PNW & Vancover 3.0 addons loaded.

Any suggestions would greatly be appriecieted.

Thanks,
Bryan

i7 2700k
Gtx 560
16GB RAM
Windows 7

[virtuali]

Just so i understand, When you guys say having too many addons being the problem do you mean too many addons in general or do you mean with a specific radius of a flying area?

Too many addons within a specific area. Which is not so easy to evaluate. For example, we feared the additional Orbx small airport sceneries nearby could cause problems but, we tested the closest to CYVR, which is KORS (Orcas Island) and, although the installation is very large, it didn't affect memory usage at CYVR.

I'm getting oom errors also using Prepar3d.

Unfortunately, P3D doesn't support DX10, that could be a significant help. You'll have to wait for the next version, which will add DX11.

I'll sometimes get the oom message before loading up completely using the stock airplane. I've turned down my HD settings as well as turned off the paging file and using the MS Fix it tool. I have PNW & Vancover 3.0 addons loaded.

We found that PNW takes about 300MB and Vancouver+ about 100MB, I find strange you would get OOM with a default airplane. However, yes, Prepar3D seems to use more memory than FSX, with just CYVR installer, I have 2.3GB taken under P3D, while I would be at about 1.6GB in FSX, perhaps the sliders don't behave the same.