Author Topic: Marshaller...Stop then Straight ahead  (Read 8304 times)

richiebacardi

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Marshaller...Stop then Straight ahead
« on: August 04, 2012, 01:37:32 pm »
Gooday,

I've had this issue a few times, trying to perfect my parking. I have approached at less than 5 Kts and the marshaller gives the gradual normal stop. As soon as I stop though, the marshaller then gives me straight ahead.

A few times I have taxied fwd and then he gives me the emergency stop, and a few times I have just ignored his signals then he gives me the cut engines.

Why is he telling me to stop then trying to bring me forward again? Any Ideas?

Thanks
Richie

virtuali

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Re: Marshaller...Stop then Straight ahead
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2012, 10:46:18 pm »
Nobody has reported this before and I never seen it. If you go a bit too ahead of the stop, the marshaller should give the emergency stop signal, never seen a go forward signal after the stopping animation started.

richiebacardi

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Re: Marshaller...Stop then Straight ahead
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2012, 08:15:23 am »
It has happened a few times so maybe it's my taxiing causes it. I will try again to replicate it and let you know any specifics.

Thank you for your reply
Richie

richiebacardi

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Re: Marshaller...Stop then Straight ahead
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2012, 04:53:11 pm »
Further Update...

I've been flying into SBRJ, and the ground services are partially visible. ie I can only see the marshaller's head, and also for the rear stairs, I can only see the driver and an outline of the stairs. This is also the case with random vehicles in the setup.

I suspect my 550Ti card is working it's hardest so a 580 has been purchased and on it's way this week.

Nobody has reported this before and I never seen it. If you go a bit too ahead of the stop, the marshaller should give the emergency stop signal, never seen a go forward signal after the stopping animation started.

I also noticed with reference to the original post, looking at your preview video for the marshaller, I've noticed he does exactly what I have reported apart from the slowing down signal...so I'm guessing it's more practise needed then?  :)

Regards
Richie
« Last Edit: August 27, 2012, 05:03:24 pm by richiebacardi »

virtuali

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Re: Marshaller...Stop then Straight ahead
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2012, 07:12:05 pm »
I also noticed with reference to the original post, looking at your preview video for the marshaller, I've noticed he does exactly what I have reported apart from the slowing down signal...so I'm guessing it's more practise needed then?  :)

It surely doesn't do in the video a stop signal followed by a go forward signal. After a stop signal has been made, the only possible signal if you don't stop there, will be the emergency stop signal.

richiebacardi

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Re: Marshaller...Stop then Straight ahead
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2012, 10:34:13 pm »
Thanks for your quick response.

So is that signal in the preview video at 1:13 an emergency stop signal?

Regards
Richie

virtuali

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Re: Marshaller...Stop then Straight ahead
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2012, 10:38:20 pm »
So is that signal in the preview video at 1:13 an emergency stop signal?

Of course it is, have you read Page 9 of the GSX manual, the explanation of the various marshalling signals ?

Quote
Straight ahead
Bend extended arms at elbows and move wands up and down from chest height to head

Emergency stop
Abruptly extend arms and wands to top of head, crossing wands.


richiebacardi

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Re: Marshaller...Stop then Straight ahead
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2012, 02:10:42 am »
Yes I have. I did think it was the emergency stop signal. But I also questioned as to why I would be having it since on the PFD for the NGX, I was taxiiing at 3kts. As far as I'm aware, anything above 5 would result in an emergency stop. That's why i'm confused.

I guess it's back to the drawing board for me.

Many thanks for your help
Richie

virtuali

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Re: Marshaller...Stop then Straight ahead
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2012, 10:10:46 am »
Yes I have. I did think it was the emergency stop signal. But I also questioned as to why I would be having it since on the PFD for the NGX, I was taxiiing at 3kts. As far as I'm aware, anything above 5 would result in an emergency stop. That's why i'm confused.

No, it doesn't work like that. If you are going faster than the normal taxiing speed (which is customizable in the GSX Settings, BTW) you wil get a SLOW DOWN signal:

Quote
Slow down
Move extended arms downwards in a “patting” gesture, moving wands up and down from waist to knees.

The emergency stop is issued when you stop too far ahead of the stopping line.

It's exactly the same for electronic docking systems: if you are going too fast in the approach, you'll see the "SLOW DOWN" text, and if you stop too far, you'll see a "TOO FAR" text.

richiebacardi

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Re: Marshaller...Stop then Straight ahead
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2012, 12:51:10 pm »
The emergency stop is issued when you stop too far ahead of the stopping line.

Thank you for that...I somehow thought that the signal at 1:12 was a normal stop as just before that from 1:10 ish he starts with his arms at 90 degrees. (hence my confusion)

Just one more question, sorry for taking up so much time.

Why does the marshaller give a straight ahead signal, after he has given the emergency stop? As in your preview video 4, he gives the emergency stop at 1:13, then gives the straight ahead until about 1:21 when he gives the kill engines?

I'm sorry if i did not get the question across initially, but that was what the original post was about....sorry

regards,
Richie

virtuali

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Re: Marshaller...Stop then Straight ahead
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2012, 01:05:54 pm »
Why does the marshaller give a straight ahead signal, after he has given the emergency stop? As in your preview video 4, he gives the emergency stop at 1:13, then gives the straight ahead until about 1:21 when he gives the kill engines?

It surely doesn't do that, as I've already said in my previous reply. I believe you are still confusing the straight ahead message with the emergency stop. The emergency stop is the WHOLE animation, including the fast waving of wands above the head, several times.

"Straight ahead" it's an entirely different gesture, the wands move from chest height to the head but they do NOT reach above the head and cross  (like the Emergency stop) and the movement is WAY slower.

Again, you should really look the manual more carefully. Look the arrows that indicates the movement: if there's only one arrow at one end of the line (like the "Normal stop" gesture), it means it's a single movement going in that direction. If the arrow is two-pointed, as in both the "Emergency stop" and "Straight Ahead", it means it's a repeating movement, which will go up-down several times.

richiebacardi

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Re: Marshaller...Stop then Straight ahead
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2012, 01:10:35 pm »
Thank you for clearing that up, I did not realise that was the whole animation.

You aare right I should read the manual not just look at the tables.

You see, as I am an aircraft maintenance engineer and marshall aircraft as part of my job, I have never done an emergency stop using that sequence. My emergency stop is the 'stop' signal quickly followed by the brakes on signal. After crossing the wands, there is no waving of the hands. We then sort the reason out for the emergency and work to suit. This is why I was confused. many thanks again for clearing that up.

Regards
Richie
« Last Edit: August 28, 2012, 01:16:55 pm by richiebacardi »

virtuali

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Re: Marshaller...Stop then Straight ahead
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2012, 01:20:44 pm »
You see, as I am an aircraft maintenance engineer and marshall aircraft as part of my job, I have never done an emergency stop using that sequence. My emergency stop is the 'stop' signal quickly followed by the brakes on signal.

It's not as if we invented that gesture: the images and the descriptions on the manual are taken from official training documents. Now, what people do in real world might be different, I've seen many videos of marshallers doing what should be the most standard gesture (the "Straight ahead") using *entirely* different styles, but of course the program should stick to some kind of standard.

The only thing that might be argued, is the numer of repetitions the "crossing wands above the head" animation will get, but it's surely a repeated movement, as indicated by the two-pointed arrows, meaning it will made at least once up and once down. We made it so it will repeat more times, because in a simulator on a PC screen, it's easy to miss things compared to real world visibility, to be sure people will not miss it.

As you might have noticed, the marhsaller will ALSO do a small step ahead with his foot when doing an emergency stop, and this is also made intentionally, in order to have the gesture more noticeable, and differentiate it better to give the impression that something that required more attention has happened.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2012, 01:22:25 pm by virtuali »

richiebacardi

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Re: Marshaller...Stop then Straight ahead
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2012, 01:36:40 pm »
That's fine.

I'm not going to get into a real world vs animation debate. it is just that...as you have cleared it up...the entire emergency stop animation is the stop, the leg, and the follow up waving. That's good enough for me as I thought the emergency stop was just the stop i.e. wands crossing.

Even though you have arrows in your graphics in your manual, the text says "Abruptly extend arms and wands to top of head crossing wands" The text never mentions the follow on waving therefore, my interpretation was based on the text.

Now I know that your emergency stop animation is the stop, the waving, and the leg...I am happy with knowing that, as that has cleared up my confusion.

Many Thanks
Richie

virtuali

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Re: Marshaller...Stop then Straight ahead
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2012, 01:46:06 pm »
Even though you have arrows in your graphics in your manual, the text says "Abruptly extend arms and wands to top of head crossing wands" The text never mentions the follow on waving therefore, my interpretation was based on the text.

As I've said, It's not "my graphic", but it has taken from official documents, and they used such standard that, when there are double-pointed arrows, it means the movement will be repeated, and you can see that all other movements that repeats x times, shares the  double-pointed arrows feature, and the movements that are clearly one-shot ( "Normal stop" ) have a single arrow.

We even thought it might have been a mistake of the document we used, but other entirely different documents, for example here:

http://www.langleyflyingschool.com/Pages/Flight%20Operations--Marshalling%20Signals.html

Keeps following that standard of using single-pointed arrows for non-repeating movements and double-pointed arrows for repeating movement, so we just respected that standard too.