New FSXBA Hornet

[hd764jvgd843]

Hello Jimi,

I had some time to take a closer look at the 15.2 version .air file and I like to submit the following changes for future releases:

- Entry no. 401: I have added a general function for CL_alpha due to mach, which was empty (linear) before. This one was taken from an F-16, and to my knowledge such a general function should be quite similar amongst all jet fighter airplanes. So as a starting point for further changes and to add more realism, I like to suggest it being incorporated, or some kind of modification of it.

- Entry no. 473: I have modified Cm_alpha vs AoA, because with the default function you could push large negative AoA's resulting in quite unrealistic g loads of up to -8g. G-Limiter seemd to work only for positive (pulled) g loads. As statet in NATOPS section 4.1.6.1 the AoA seems to be limited to something around -6 deg. for everything but a 'clean' loadout, as I understand. Please have a look, because I am not really sure in which cases it seems to be 'unlimited'. So as a starting point for further changes and to add more realism, I like to suggest it being incorporated, or some kind of modifiction of it.

- Entry no. 1535: The Clda (aileron effectiveness) function I have NOT changed as is seemd to be identical with what I found for an FA-18E.
- Entry no. 1536: I have modified skalar Cn dr (rudder effectiveness) due to AoA. The function is from an FA-18E, as a starting point for further modifications. In my opinion it should be closer to reality than what we had before.
- Entry no. 1537: I have modified Cn (yaw) induced by AoA. The function is from an FA-18E, as a starting point for further modifications. In my opinion it should be closer to reality than what we had before.
- Entry no. 1538: I have modified Cl (roll) induced by AoA. The function is from an FA-18E, as a starting point for further modifications. In my opinion it should be closer to reality than what we had before.

Please discuss these with your testing crew and let me know what you think.

For quick testing I have included a modified FA-18_15.2.air file which contain the above mentioned changes.

Best regards... Peter

P.S. To make modifictions to .air files I used AirEd and Aircraft Airfile Manager

[PhantomTweak]

Greetings to all! I am brand-spankin' new on this forum, and I greet all. I fell madly in love with 2012 version of this bird the day I DL'd it. it's amazing! Then, of all things, I find out there's an update! You can improve perfection??? WOW!
Ok, ok, all superlatives aside, I DL'd the 15.2 update. NOW I'm confused. It's not a full aircraft, ok, np there, but would it be possible to throw a "Readme" in with it, maybe? do I replace all the models? The Textures? Add them all in, make a whole new airplane, combining this with what I already have? etc etc.
What's the purpose behind the folder "Update"? The air file is 14.1...to me that's a step back, but do we have to install all that good stuff before the 15.2 goodies? If so, how? Or just ignore it? Or...
I know how to install files/folders, make changes to all the various files, including the .air, panel.cfg etc, I just need to know what to do with which.
I also got ahold of Peter's updated updated .air file. That I know what to do and not do with, at least. Is there an change to the aircraft.cfg associated with it, or is it standalone?
I really don't want to mess with what I have till I know, so I don't screw it all up.
I do love this airplane, and would love to make it even better, but...
Thank you in advance to any help you all can give, I really do appreciate it!
Pat☺

[pyroperson87]

Welcome aboard. The 15.2 bird that you downloaded is completely standalone and doesn't require the FSXBA 2012 jet. Just copy the jet into SimObjects and you're golden.

[pyroperson87]

Jimi/Orion...some brief feedback from a few flights this evening.

- Tailhook position is not visible to others in MP on the "training" variant, I didn't test other variants. I think I vaguely remember encountering this problem before but I can't remember if there was a solution/resolution.

- The vapor cone is very...strange. It's hard to explain, but it progressively steps through it's various stages. Each individual stage looks badass though and I can't wait to see the final result is when they are all "blended."

- TacPack told me that the aircraft had unapproved modifications when starting a flight and closed FSX on me. The only thing that worked was deleting the TacPack.ini file and then the aircraft ran fine, albeit without TacPack features.

- The real jet has no overspeed tone.

- Throttle response and thrust feel really really good. I no longer felt a spot in the middle of the throttle range that seemingly jumped exponentially. Nice work on that.

- Flap logic is accurate to NATOPS and the LEF/TEF transition speeds look very good. Fantastic work!

- Who made the exhaust smoke effects? They are by far the best and most realistic I have seen for FSX and I think I'm going to add them to my other aircraft. The burner effects are also quite stunning.


Thanks for an incredible rendition guys, I look forward to more flights with it and future updates.

[PhantomTweak]

OH! You're right, as usual, I'm sure, Pyro! Nice to see I was paying attention. Thank you for the help. I will also try you .air file, and see how it stacks up.
Thank you again!
Pat☺

[hd764jvgd843]

Hello Jimi et. al.,

here is the latest update as I dug through the 15.2 version .air file:

- Entry no. 401: I have added a general function for CL_alpha due to mach, which was empty (linear) before. This one was taken from an F-16, and to my knowledge such a general function should be quite similar amongst all jet fighter airplanes. So as a starting point for further changes and to add more realism, I like to suggest it being incorporated, or some kind of modification of it.

- Entry no. 430: This entry did not exist before. Delta CD0 due to mach. The function is from an FA-18E, as a starting point for further modification. In my opinion it should be closer to reality than what we had before.

[- Entry no. 440]: Delta Cy beta due to mach. The function is from FA-18E and shows a spike. I have noticed no strange effects, but in order to avoid anomalies like the one with entry no. 459, I decided to leave settings as they were (linear). In case you know otherwise, please let me know.

- Entry no. 441: Delta Cy dr due to mach. The function is from an FA-18E, as a starting point for further modifications. In my opinion it should be closer to reality than what we had before.

[- Entry no. 459]: Delta Cn beta due to mach. I left the original setting unchanged, because the function from an FA-18E for this value induces some hefty shaking on the yaw axis starting between 1.10 Mach up to 1.30 Mach at high altitude. (Tested above 30,000 ft). As I do not know if the C/D models show similar behavior, I decided not to include it. In case you know otherwise, please let me know.

- Entry no. 461: Delta Cn_dr due to mach (rudder effectiveness). The function is from an FA-18E, as a starting point for further modification. In my opinion it should be closer to reality than what we had before.

- Entry no. 464: Scalar on Cn_R vs AoA (yaw stability). The function is from an FA-18E, as a starting point for further modification. In my opinion it should be closer to reality than what we had before.

[- Entry no. 473]: I have modified Cm_alpha vs AoA, because with the default function you could push large negative AoA's resulting in quite unrealistic g loads of up to -8g. G-Limiter seemd to work only for positive (pulled) g loads. As statet in NATOPS section 4.1.6.1 the AoA seems to be limited to something around -6 deg. for everything but a 'clean' loadout, as I understand. Please have a look, because I am not really sure in which cases it seems to be 'unlimited'. So as a starting point for further changes and to add more realism, I like to suggest it being incorporated, or some kind of modification of it. Due to strange effects on the FCS I have decided to revert it to the original setting, for now.

[- Entry no. 1535]: The Clda (aileron effectiveness) function I have NOT changed as is seemd to be identical with what I found for an FA-18E.

- Entry no. 1536: I have modified skalar Cn dr (rudder effectiveness) due to AoA. The function is from an FA-18E, as a starting point for further modifications. In my opinion it should be closer to reality than what we had before.

- Entry no. 1537: I have modified Cn (yaw) induced by AoA. The function is from an FA-18E, as a starting point for further modifications. In my opinion it should be closer to reality than what we had before.

- Entry no. 1538: I have modified Cl (roll) induced by AoA. The function is from an FA-18E, as a starting point for further modifications. In my opinion it should be closer to reality than what we had before.

I have made some basic flight tests at slow and high speeds and at low and high altitude, and in case I noticed some anomalies like the one with entry no. 459 and 473 I have put them on report. However, I have not checked for NATOPS compliance because I am not that familiar with it.

Please discuss these with your testing crew and let me know what you think.

For quick testing I have included a modified FA-18_15.2.air file mod 2 which contain the above mentioned changes. The ones in brackets have been left unchanged, as explained.

Best regards... Peter

[jimi08]

Pat: Welcome to the forums and thanks for the input.

Pyro: Still working on getting the tailhook visible in the FLT variants.  As far as TACPACK is concerned, I would recommend changing the setting in the TACPACK control settings and uncheck the validation option under the first tab.  It should work then.  Taking out the overspeed tone should be pretty easy.  I'll work on that.  The vapor cone effect will probably be awhile as effects are kinda on the back burner.  Thanks for the Kudos on the flaps and throttle response.  Credit goes to SLUDGE for the effects.

Pete:  Guessing you figured out how to swap .air file entries...and I'm guessing "an FA-18E" is the VRS Superbug.  Personally don't think replacing most of the .air files with Superbug ones is the way ahead.  Although the Legacy and Super Hornets share the same lineage, I've heard on more than one occasion that difference in flight characteristics between the two jets is quite noticeable.  Although, I've referenced a few of their files in the past, I try to be VERY limited on what I "borrow" from them.  I think they've made it pretty clear that their work will not be used or implemented in products other than VRS (other than TACPACK).  Don't get me wrong,  I like VRS and the Superbug.  They're doing an amazing job, but I'm not shooting to make another "VRS Superbug flying" aircraft that just looks like a Legacy Hornet.

Currently Working:  Working with SPINS to correct the cockpit issues with the two-seater.  Hopefully we will have something in the next week or two.  I'm also working with ORION to sort out an updated FCS that incorporates AOA, Pitch Rate and G feedback throughout the flight envelope.

[hd764jvgd843]

Thanks for the info on your current working. Great to hear that the FCS will be updated soon!

I have been working with AirEd (to copy/paste entries) and AAM (to edit single functions) for quite some time now, but I did not have enough time to dig deeper until recently when I started modifying certain entries and functions, and experimented with how they change flight behavior. I concur that simply replacing most .air entries for the Legacy Hornet with that of Super Hornet entries is certainly not a way to go, and it wasn't what I intended to do.

Trying to understand how .air file entries work together throughout the flight envelope, I noticed that some parts seemed to be left out or missing and that some did not work as I expected them to, by comparing different .air file entries of different jet fighter aircraft to one another. That is how I started digging for some mathematical functions that seemed to make sense in context of a Legacy Hornet, as a starting point for further modifications of these specific entries and functions. The problem is that I do not really know what and how to benchmark them against to. So, please understand my comments as mere suggestions and placeholders of what might lead to more realistic behavior throughout the flight envelope.

As you and your crew are years ahead of me concerning these topics, you may have already thought of these specific entries and functions before, that I have listed above. But in order to facilitate development, I thought that listing what I stumbled upon might be a good way to do so. I hope that it has been of some help to you and your crew - and that it did not bore you to death for having discussed it already a thousand times.

Best regards, Peter

[PhantomTweak]

For the life of me, seeing an improvement to the 15.2 will leave me (even more) awestruck. You all absolutely and positively have left me in the dust when it comes to improving aircraft. I know how to get in and edit a .air or aircraft.cfg, but other than official NATOPS data, I haven't any "real world" Hornet experience. Not counting I-level on the Radar system for a few months in the evening of my military time, so to speak. I've been exclusively FS9 up until very recently, due to a very limited budget (disability and a fixed income do that), but a couple weeks ago I finally got FSX-SE, and this is opening up a whole new world for me. I had no problem getting in and trying to improve my "freeware Hornets" from a certain source, but you all have left me in the dust. I'm not sure if this is due to limitations of FS9 or just my lack of ability, but I for one sincerely appreciate the heck out of what you are doing. It's making the Hornet act like a Hornet (as near as I can tell, anyway).
I'll be waiting for continuing improvements, as you all make them. Thank you all again for all you efforts. I know you all must have better things to do with your busy lives, but those who don't sure appreciate the heck outta it.
Pat☺

[fullcoupe]

- Throttle response and thrust feel really really good. I no longer felt a spot in the middle of the throttle range that seemingly jumped exponentially. Nice work on that.

- Flap logic is accurate to NATOPS and the LEF/TEF transition speeds look very good. Fantastic work!

- Who made the exhaust smoke effects? They are by far the best and most realistic I have seen for FSX and I think I'm going to add them to my other aircraft. The burner effects are also quite stunning.


Thanks for an incredible rendition guys, I look forward to more flights with it and future updates.

Hi Jimi -- Just did a few touch and go's in the latest version.

- I have to second Pyro on the exhaust effects, incredibly realistic. The burner effect has great transition, but color-wise seems too neon blue on the edges. I only tested during the day though, it might look better at night.

- Love the more ambient and realistic landing light. Would love to see a more realistic update to the strobes as well. I know this is probably back burner too...

- Along with Pyro, the throttle is much better. I also notice taxi speed and "coasting" speed on the ground is much more smooth and manageable.

- Flashing with AOA indexer seems to be fixed

- I may be way late to the game on this one, but is T/O trim built-in somehow? I'm guessing there's a switch or mapped key for it...

Looking forward to the two-seater again!

Amazing aircraft, thanks Jimi and all the others who are putting effort in!



Matt

[Victory103]

Matt,

T/O trim push button on the trim knob, mid-left console. Should have a shore and cat setting for where to place the stabs.

[cr4sh]

Hello! first and foremost. this is an amazing a/c and im happy that you guys keep on improving it, now i have a little problem, when i shutdown the aircraft and everything is powered off, things like, the boarding ladder, intake covers, etc. don't appear. I'm using the 15.2 version of the mod.

[jimi08]

Pat, Matt and Cr4sh,

Thanks for the compliments and words of encouragement.  The two seater is still a work in progress.  As far as the boarding ladder.  I'll look into it.  Getting a mix bag with that one.  If works fine for some and not for others. 

Thanks again for the feedback!

Jimi

[cr4sh]

Pat, Matt and Cr4sh,

Thanks for the compliments and words of encouragement.  The two seater is still a work in progress.  As far as the boarding ladder.  I'll look into it.  Getting a mix bag with that one.  If works fine for some and not for others. 

Thanks again for the feedback!

Jimi

Thanks a whole lot, push the ground stuff like boarding ladder down the list, it's just a nice detail nothing more!

[PhantomTweak]

Matt,

T/O trim push button on the trim knob, mid-left console. Should have a shore and cat setting for where to place the stabs.

I thought it was a 3 button combination:
1) The button on the left console is for yaw trim and rudder positioning for T/O (toe-in),
2) the "Pitot Heat" button on the right panel sets the pitch actions of the FCS to the proper pitch for carrier launch or ground launch, as determined by
3) the Launch Bar switch position, left angled panel. Up for normal, down for carrier.
Or am I mistaken? I am frequently so if please point it out! It's one way to learn
Pat☺