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Author Topic: New FSXBA Hornet  (Read 554139 times)
jimi08
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« Reply #75 on: January 27, 2013, 02:38:25 AM »

Roger that and thanks for the feedback! As far as the power curves go, they should be good to go. The jet should do about Mach 1.2 to 1.3 at sea level and about 1.8 at FL 360 at max power. This years version features aerodynamic speed limiters (jet simply can't go any faster under given power) instead of using the mechanical speed limiters from last years model (gauge automatically retards the throttle once max speed has been reached).  The fuel glitch on the other hand needs to be fixed/tweaked. Thanks for catching that. I'll get to work on it. Thanks again.
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Justin "Jimi" Hendrix
FSX Blue Angels
FSXBA F/A-18C Hornet Latest Download Link: http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,6944.msg117011.html#msg1
pyroperson87
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« Reply #76 on: February 12, 2013, 08:00:33 AM »

Jimi,

I've finally had enough time free of RL distraction to really give the 2013 bird the attention it deserves and I've noticed several things:

1) I did a pattern at max gross landing weight and my onspeed IAS was 162 knots. I don't have a legacy hornet NATOPS handy, but it seems a bit excessive.
2) I can confirm the fuel consumption issue. She's barely sipping from those tanks once you get above around 10k ft. 
3) When making very minor AoA adjustments in the groove, nothing appeared on the HUD.  Does the change in AoA have to exceed a certain amount for it to display the symbology? I really only saw it flash on the HUD as I was getting configured just prior to my abeam call.
4) Still no joy on the ATC switch.  It animates and then bounces right back to the default position.  You mentioned in a previous post that you didn't make any changes to it though.  Perhaps something in some of the new XML stuff is interfering with it's operation? I only have a limited knowledge and use of C++ so I don't really have a clue  Tongue
5) I couldn't find a way to adjust the radar altimeter setting.  It's set to the correct altitude of 350ft but I prefer having it set to 450.  Is there a way to change it or is that hard coded in somewhere?

My last question is this: are we free to modify the bird for our personal use?  I only ask because I would love to add Sludge's IFLOLS gauge to the panel as my ball isn't crisp enough to see until about 1/2 mile out.

Thanks again for keeping the Legacy Hornet alive and kickin in FSX!

Pyro
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SpazSinbad
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« Reply #77 on: February 12, 2013, 09:44:44 AM »

Hornet Approach AoA Chart + Weights from NATOPS. 137 KIAS at Max. Landing Arrested Weight of 33,000 lbs seems to be the number for Opt AoA.


* HornetMaxLandingWeight33KlbsOptAoA.gif (140.92 KB, 2412x1844 - viewed 497 times.)
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Sludge
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« Reply #78 on: February 12, 2013, 07:46:34 PM »

Pyro...

I think I can help with a couple of your questions, since I work with Jimi on his bird alongside what I do for mine.

1) Yes, it is excessive, if you're at 33k. What's your fuel state? Also, keep in mind, that .PDF Spaz included also says "3.5 glideslope MAX"... well, FSX being FSX, we are stuck with a 4.0 meatball glideslope and the JR/Printz Combat HUD ICLS g/s needle is set to that as well.

5) It's in the UFC Init.XML file, which should be located within the PANEL folder with the BlackBox\UFC XMLs. There are settings in there you can change so it comes up that way "default". Or you can change it in-flight via Serge's UFC BlackBox panel. Not sure if Jimi has this installed... if not, you can mod the UFC Init.XML so that it starts with this all the time.

** You should be fine modding the bird for your particular likes. I know Jimi and myself are of a similar mindset... so you can do whatever you want to it, you paid for FSX and Acceleration, and both our mods are freeware. Same goes for my bird, within the limits of other individual's code limitations (ie. JRs Refueling gauge code; Skippy Bing's Wire Caught gauge code), you are free to add/change/reconfigure mods to your liking. I know that I'd be more than happy to see other's mod/tweak what I've done, and post those results here so that other's can try them out and add to the FSX Nav Av community.

Later
Sludge
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 07:49:34 PM by Sludge » Logged

pyroperson87
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« Reply #79 on: February 13, 2013, 05:01:33 AM »

Sludge,

I set up the bird with 90% in each tank which is 9450lbs of gas. Gross weight was 34150lbs at takeoff from Oceana.  Dumped fuel before entering the pattern and had it down to 8400lbs of gas (100lbs over max trap) about a mile behind the boat.  Then I flew the standard Case I pattern.  I was also using the default fair weather when I tested it.
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Pops
Sludge
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« Reply #80 on: February 14, 2013, 05:25:05 AM »

Pyro...

OK, ya, thats extremely high. Now when you do an approach, I'm assuming you have FULL FLAPS selected and you got an AMBER DONUT on the AoA Indexer? If you are, something is really wrong with the PA (powered approach) profile, and I'll have to talk with Jimi about it.

Also, remember, you have to get a total of 30+ kts of wind over deck (meaning, down the angled deck) for a FSX-realistic carrier approach. So take the carrier speed (get it by shift-z when youre on deck), then add whatever wind down the angle (Base Recovery Course -10 deg) to make it a total of 30+ knots. This will give you the best balance between real-world and FSX carrier landing ops, because of the high meatball setting.

I'll get Jimi's latest iteration and see how it handles behind the boat, so I can compare to what you are saying.

Later
Sludge
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pyroperson87
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« Reply #81 on: February 14, 2013, 07:43:08 AM »

Sludge,

Yep.  Full flaps and amber donut on the indexer.  But I used fair weather which I think only has a few knots of wind in some random direction. The vLSO debrief shows 26 knots as the wind over deck.  If I understand how it works (I probably don't) adding 6 or 7 knots more wind over the deck would only reduce my onspeed airspeed by 6 or 7 knots, which would still be 155 or 156 knots.  I'll fly a few more patterns this weekend and see.  Maybe I'm dyslexic and I was onspeed at 126 IAS  Roll Eyes
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SpazSinbad
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« Reply #82 on: February 14, 2013, 10:24:55 AM »

'pyroperson' I'm dialectric and chuckling like crazy at you last phrase.  Grin

Wind Over the Deck WOD is an addition of forward ship speed usually into the natural wind. If a 10 knot wind the ship needs to be at 20 knots to make a WOD of 30 knots. When moving through the air your airspeed will be the same - however depending on the direction you fly into or out of or sideways to the natural wind (and altitude) will determine your groundspeed. The higher the WOD the more your actual approach angle will decrease by a certain amount. There is such a thing as too much WOD - so for every aircraft there is an ideal WOD. I can post a diagram about the Glideslope / WOD effect.

LSO Manual (1Mb): http://www.navyair.com/LSO_NATOPS_Manual.pdf


* USNlsoGlideslopePitch.gif (111.14 KB, 893x1480 - viewed 479 times.)
« Last Edit: February 16, 2013, 02:27:21 AM by SpazSinbad » Logged

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pyroperson87
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« Reply #83 on: February 15, 2013, 05:10:18 AM »

Glad you got a kick out of that Spaz  Cheesy

Thanks for the little excerpt from the LSO manual.  There's some fantastic info on there.  I would imagine though that the ideal WOD doesn't differ much between jet aircraft such as hornets, rhinos and prowlers.  I'm assuming that it's the Hawkeyes and CODs have a different ideal WOD.  And who knows about the helos.  Those things are weird  Grin

PS - Sludge...Not sure if you are the right person to ask this, but do you know how I would go about editing the forward speed of the boat?  I'm hoping to get a bit more realistic groove times.  And as a side note I creeped on your profile and noticed you are from my neck of the woods.  I lived in Enid up by Vance for a good while when I was growing up.

Pyro
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SpazSinbad
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« Reply #84 on: February 15, 2013, 05:43:09 AM »

'pyroperson89' you can have a look at the statistics in the PDF (1.2Mb) here: http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf&AD=ADA239511

Not all the aircraft you mention are in the study but it does seem counter-intuitive until you read the pdf. Excerpt front / back in the Gif attached. This effect and other carrier landing issues have been discussed quite a bit on this forum but not lately. Did not realise until today that the text can be easily extracted from this version of the PDF anyway. Here is onesuch:

"...For a carrier conducting flight operations, the aircraft recovery bulletins prescribe a minimum value of "wind over deck" required to land aircraft. The values are different for each aircraft type. "Wind over Deck" is the sum of two components, first the prevailing natural wind and second, the wind created by the forward motion of the ship. The carrier normally sails into the prevailing wind to maximize the value of "wind over deck". The actual "wind over deck" provided is determined by the requirements of the various types of aircraft in the landing pattern, the amount of natural wind, the sea state and other ship operating constraints (such as restrictions on operating areas, weather, other maritime traffic, speed capability or fuel state of escorting vessels). To reduce the carrier's fuel consumption, minimum ship speed is often used consistent with operational requirements...."

There are four examples of WOD used with formulae that are too difficult to repeat here in text format which will help understanding of the contention about 'ideal WOD'. Here is an excerpt (easy text) about FCLP:

"Field Data Verification
In an attempt to verify the analysis of the effect of wind over deck on aircraft approach speed, the data from F-14 Field Carrier Practice Landings was reviewed. This data was collected during Survey 37 at NALF FENTRISS. These landings were performed with very little wind, typically two to four knots. The approach speed versus landing weight for a total of one hundred and eight F-14 landings were plotted on figure (9). When compared with the NATOPS approach speed curves the data shows approach speeds higher than recommended. However, to control sink rates for field landings, the glideslope is set at 3.25 degrees, not the 3.5 degree setting used for most carrier landings. When the measured values of approach speed are normalized to the 3.5 degree setting, the results change significantly, as shown on figure (10). This suggests that the increase in approach speed over the NATOPS recommendation seen in this data is caused by the lower lens angle.

This is another situation that supports the assertion that the corrections the pilot makes to hold in aircraft on glideslope result in the increase of observed approach speed...."


* WODincreaseFromIdealNotGood.gif (100.72 KB, 1201x1541 - viewed 866 times.)
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 05:59:07 AM by SpazSinbad » Logged

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Sludge
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« Reply #85 on: February 15, 2013, 08:12:33 AM »

Pyro....

I'm not sure how to edit carrier speed in Free Flight, but you can use a program called AI Boat Traffic Compiler (AIBTC) to get what you want with some minor FSX editing skills. I'd suggest downloading and installing Carrier Tracks 1 and 2, then using the AIBTC to modify the tracks and edit the boat's speed there.

If you don't have those or know where to get these files, google them with FSX included and if no success, holler back. I made a custom Carrier Track that puts a "CQ carrier" (Javier carrier w/T-45 and F-18s on deck; all cats and trap cleared) sailing from San Diego to Los Angeles at 0803L (Case I) and 2003L (Case III) at 15 kts. So all you have to do is setup the weather for 15+ kts down the deck, load up a Hornet at NASNI, save it, and youre ready to jump right into carrier quals. If you dont want to deal with editing, holler and I'll send you my custom .BGL file. It also includes a Tanker that takes off out of San Diego Airport and flies up to Vegas about 0810L and 2010L, so you can do some CQs and then get some day/night air-to-air refueling hacks on the way to Nellis.

Oh ok, I've been there a few times, one of my buddies went thru airforce UPT there as a Marine SNA (student naval aviator). It's OK, just out in the middle of BFE (Bum F^%K Egypt), so there wasn't a whole lot to do off-duty except workout, study for next flight, or get blitzed.

Yeah, I'm not an Okie, but I do have a great contractor job (E-3 mission crew sim driver) here at Tinker that pays the bills really well and keeps me in FSX Nav Av and being a golf instructor.

Later
Sludge
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pyroperson87
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« Reply #86 on: February 15, 2013, 08:43:08 AM »

Sludge,

I would love to have that BGL.  Sounds like a fun little hop.  I'm afraid I don't have much to offer in return other than a few humble flightplans for the Sidewinder route and Star Wars Canyon in Oman.  They're simple, but it took me weeks the get all the waypoints in the right spots.  The Sidewinder is a lot of fun if you have a good mesh and you like flying lower than snake sh*t.  The drop from the mountains down into the salt flats in Death Valley is a real blast if you're flying with a few other people.

Pyro
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Sludge
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« Reply #87 on: February 15, 2013, 07:10:30 PM »

Pyro...

Here you go. Just drop these in your FSX\Addon scenery\scenery folder and you should be able to setup as I talked about earlier.

Enjoy.

Later
Sludge

* SoCalCarriers.zip (3.35 KB - downloaded 230 times.)
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pyroperson87
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« Reply #88 on: February 16, 2013, 07:24:57 PM »

Thanks for that scenery Sludge...it's a fun one.  I'm not sure if I understand this correctly, but if two people have that BGL installed, would the boat be synced between the two people in multiplayer?

Pyro
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Pops
Sludge
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« Reply #89 on: February 16, 2013, 09:35:20 PM »

Pyro...

No prob. I use that setup as my test setup, so I can immediately jump into a saved free flight with the highest fuel and be ready to test out XML changes or anything done with the vLSO program.

Sorry, it doesnt work like that in FSX. However, I convinced Orion to make a spin-off of his SFCarrier 2 multiplayer mission, its SFCarrier 2.5 I believe, and put the carrier heading to Hawaii from just west of San Diego. So you can set the wind, and have all synced carrier traps you want with 8 other multiplayer fliers. The problem we used to have was that the original mission based just west of San Fran was the carrier path was big square, so that the carrier would do really quick heading changes and the WoD component would change to a cross-wind once the carrier made its first heading change. Although not realistic, was ALOT of fun to try crosswind carrier landings AT NIGHT. Talk about using the ghost vector to the max extreme.

Later
Sludge
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