New FSXBA Hornet

[pyroperson87]

I think the rudders of the rhinos don't have same kind of scheduling, as it looks always the same on short final

Yes and no.  Rhino rudder toe scheduling is much simpler than the Hornet.

F-18E/F NATOPS Excerpt:

Rudder toe-in is used to improve longitudinal stability and to aid aircraft rotation during takeoff or bolter.  Rudder toe-in is a function of AOA.  At 0 degrees AOA or with WonW, the rudders are toed-in 40 degrees. Rudder toe-in decreases linearly to 0 degrees of toe at 12 degrees AOA.

[pyroperson87]

DOH!

The math on that was really bothering me since it came up with such a weird value so I've just been thinking about it and it finally hit me!

The y-intercept isn't 30!  The y-intercept would be where there was 0 AOA, and I just simply plugged in the 30, but that's at 2 AOA.  The ACTUAL y-intercept is 40.  Here's the rework:

y = (-5) x (8.1) + 40 => y = -40.5 + 40 => y = -0.5

So at 8.1 AOA you SHOULD see a toe-OUT of .5 degrees.  This is MUCH better, and is definitely more consistent with the photos Mace posted.  I feel slightly stupid now...but I'm glad I figured it out.

[Snake]

Thanks for welcoming me aboard Pyro, it's great to see people are still flying FSX. You guys have breathed new life into the sim and I thank all of you for your efforts. This new legacy hornet when it's done will be the best aircraft in the entire FSX hangar IMO. I see some of you guys are stationed at Oceana which is not far from my house. I grew up in the tidewater area so I have seen it go from the F-4, F-14 AND F-18. Jimi you may remember me when I used to fly occasionally with you guys, Snake762. You were in California back then. I hope to meet some of you local guys sometime at the Airshow in Sept. Enough of that, here is some video i posted today of the Hornet in action. I hope you enjoy.

YCdIQ&feature=c4-overview

[jimi08]

To those I have not met before, welcome and thanks for the input.  Some of these things I'm pretty sure I can do, others unfortunately are probably not going to happen, due to either my lack of programming ability, or inaccess to alter certain files such as the 3D models.  Other problem I am having, is some of the restraints that are contained within FSX/P3D.  

FLAPS
Some of the issues with flaps might/can be remedied by programs such as FSUIPC, but I don't know how to program that yet.  Will have to start digging into that get things like flaps to work properly.  The way FSX works now, I have a maximum of 10 different flap setting that I can use and I can't control them separately unless I use the default autoflap programming.  So because of this, I will not be able to put things like leading, trailing, and rudders to work on different schedules.  Per NATOPS, the leading and trailing edge flaps work on different schedules.  While the leading edge flaps continue to deploy as AOA increase, the trailing edge flaps deployment schedule looks more like a plateau, i.e. they start to retract after exceeding a certain AOA.  That is in-part the problem that you are seeing with the flap deployment discrepancies.  Although not perfectly aligned with the hornet, the default FSXA autoflap system has a linear flap deployment schedule, much like what is needed for the leading edge flaps.  For the trailing edge flaps, I used my own XML coding to create the plateau schedule.  With only 10 positions to work with, three of them already taken for flaps up (0 degrees), flaps half (30 degrees) and flaps landing (45 degrees), leaving me with only 7 remaining flap positions to use for auto-flaps.

RUDDER TOE IN/OUT
I would need to decompile the 3D model in order to tag the rudders to act as a sort of flaps as well.  Might be able to due it as flaps, but I doubt the sim would account for the lift/pitch component.  Actually, I might be able to rig something basic....when I get a break from work, I will give it a shot.  If all works the way I think i could, we will get both the visual effect and aerodynamic effect.  Worst case, just the aerodynamic effect.  But we'll see.

ADDITIONAL DROP TANKS
Adding 2 additional drop tanks again is outside of my purview.  I can't do 3D modeling.  I wish I could, but I can't.

THROTTLE/THRUST SPIKE
I will take a look at the throttle issue.  Still trying to find info on thrust output of the f404s while at idle.  From there, I can build some thrust curves and map to the jet.  Same thing goes for the Afterburner.

UV MAPPING
UV mapping is another one of those 3D modeling things...Sorry...

P.S.
Yes Snake I remember you man!  Hope all is going well.  Awesome video yes, hopefully we can meet up at this year's airshow.
Thanks again for the inputs, research and the compliments!  Keep em' comin!

[Wingnut172N]

Sorry guys, flying got busy towards the end of the week, so I wasn't able to check this as often as I'd like.

Rudder toe-in on the Rhino is dead simple.  WoW or at 0 AOA the rudders are toed in 40 degrees, at 12 AOA they are faired.  In between the relationship is linear.  There is no rudder toe-out normally in the Rhino.  Visual inspection shows noticeable toe-in on the Rhino during approach, less so in the Legendary. 

[mace]

Hi,

Jimi, understood about the restrictions you have, thanks for detailed explanation.  If someone could modify the 3D model, are we allowed to change anything?  I remember this model is owned by Madcatz at first point, and if so, there's no chance to make any kind of modifications to the model right?  Well, the model is extremely detailed as a freeware and I really love it, though I still have some wishes.

Pyro, thanks for giving a math.
Actually I didn't do any caltulation but had an image like this, which is almost the same thing.

 AOA    toe-in
  11  --  -15
        |
       1/3
        |
  8.1 ---   0 ( which was -0.5 actually)
        |
       2/3
        |
   2  ---- 30

I think linear relationship is the answer.
You can see this if you have a video of hornets right after the cat shot,
as the airplane gain its lift by raising its nose (gain AOA).
Sorry I can't find one, but I can tell that the rudders moved gradually from toe-in to toe-out smoothly.
You might see its function on short final when there's a wind shear or gust.

[jimi08]

Everyone,

This is an update of what I have SO FAR for 9 Feb 2014.  Not as much progress on this one as in last weeks.  Pretty busy work week this week for me.  Just sent a letter to Madcatz to see if we can get permission to alter the model.

Things to fixed from FSXBA2014.2 to FSXBA2014.3 model:
-Throttle Response.  (Adjusted the low end RPM handling to hopefully eliminate the "spike" at around 71% N2) (adjusted Afterburner Output.  Still in progress though).
-Over G Warning (fixed)
-Inverted Pitch Autotrim (fixed)
-ATC malfunctioning/issues (fixed, reprogrammed to the AUTOPILOT FLIGHT DIRECTOR ACTIVE button to activate/deactivate)
-Up and Away AOB based Autorudder strengthened (fixed)
-Nose Wheel Caster (fixed, reassigned to 75 degree caster)

Known Flaw:
-Afterburner at high altitude.

Thanks again and looking forward to your feedback!

Link: http://fsxblueangels.com/Downloads/FA-18C_FSXBA2014.3.zip (Updated 9 Feb 2014)

[pyroperson87]

Jimi,

First off I wanted to say thanks for continuously trying to improve the jet in all aspects.  Secondly, I wanted to make sure that you know that I am in no way criticizing the work you have accomplished thus far on the jet, and in providing my feedback I am in no way trying to be an ass.

Now let's get down to business.

1) I try to fly the same routine each time I test the releases so as to have a base from which to really notice the changes. Flight dynamics in the low speed regime seem to have changed very significantly with this release.  I am able to pull a LOT more at low speed than before, leading to being able to perform the "cobra" maneuver, and even flying backwards for extended periods of time if done with full burner and lighter gross weights.

2) Flight with high AOB seems better, but it still feel like the nose drops a little too slowly compared to the 2012 variant and the VRS.  But, having never flown the Hornet or a Hornet sim (as you have) I will trust your judgement.

3) Inverted flight is improved, but still not quite right.  Once Inverted the jet maintained roughly -0.7G in all of my inverted tests.

4) I'm still having some issues with the ATC.  What exactly is the "AUTOPILOT FLIGHT DIRECTOR ACTIVE button?"  I assumed it was the Flight Director toggle command (CTRL+F by default), but I got no ATC in UA or PA.  Default FSX autothrottle (CTRL+R) by default still engages the FSX version of autothrottle, and it appears the "ATC" indication in the HUD is still linked to this key command.

5) When in PA mode I no longer get the trimmed AoA indication on the right of the HUD, and the jet has some serious nose down tendency on approach.  So much so that I wasn't able able to fly any successful passes during a small FCLP session.  Based off of the changelog you provided I'm not sure what could be causing this.

6) Somehow I got MUCH improved frame rates.  Again, given the change log I don't see why they would go up, but I also didn't make any changes to my hardware/software.  Guess my PC was just having a good day 

7) Given that the jet has a higher packet count for some reason, and given the fact that the jet is the FSX Blue Angels jet for 2014, perhaps consideration could be given to increase the packet count at which the FSX Blue Angels FS Open server automatically kicks aircraft.  I have noticed several people getting kicked from the FSXBA server while trying to fly it.  Seems like an oxymoron 

Thanks again for continuing the work on the jet!

[jimi08]

Pyro,

I know you are striving for a better product like the rest of us.  No offenses taken.  My gratitude is given.

With that being said....
Some of your inputs makes sense as I have may have changed certain variables.  Others, unfortunately, I have no clue why there would be a difference.

Great example is your first input....  I haven't changed any of pitch properties

1) I try to fly the same routine each time I test the releases so as to have a base from which to really notice the changes. Flight dynamics in the low speed regime seem to have changed very significantly with this release.  I am able to pull a LOT more at low speed than before, leading to being able to perform the "cobra" maneuver, and even flying backwards for extended periods of time if done with full burner and lighter gross weights.

-I MIGHT have an idea on this one.  Might have to do with the flaps as I added a pitch element to them while trying to figure out the rudder/AOA issue.  After finishing my research, I though I nulled any of those changes, but I might have missed something.  I will go back and check once I get home.

2) Flight with high AOB seems better, but it still feel like the nose drops a little too slowly compared to the 2012 variant and the VRS.  But, having never flown the Hornet or a Hornet sim (as you have) I will trust your judgement.

-This is purposefully designed for formation aerobatics.  Please provide me with your Skype info (if you have Skype).  We'll talk and I'll give you another type of autorudder.  Be great if you can test this out for me prior to the next release.

3) Inverted flight is improved, but still not quite right.  Once Inverted the jet maintained roughly -0.7G in all of my inverted tests.

-Went through my coding...I couldn't find any AOB restrictions in regards to the Pitch Autotrim System.  I will take another look at this when I get home.

4) I'm still having some issues with the ATC.  What exactly is the "AUTOPILOT FLIGHT DIRECTOR ACTIVE button?"  I assumed it was the Flight Director toggle command (CTRL+F by default), but I got no ATC in UA or PA.  Default FSX autothrottle (CTRL+R) by default still engages the FSX version of autothrottle, and it appears the "ATC" indication in the HUD is still linked to this key command.

-Odd...worked on my end...  I'll take another look.

5) When in PA mode I no longer get the trimmed AoA indication on the right of the HUD, and the jet has some serious nose down tendency on approach.  So much so that I wasn't able able to fly any successful passes during a small FCLP session.  Based off of the changelog you provided I'm not sure what could be causing this.

-I took it out.  Since I can quite figure out how to actively allow the pilot to program Autotrim to hold AOA, removed it to avoid confusion.  I've tested a few variations on "close enough" systems.  Maybe we can discuss later.

-6) Somehow I got MUCH improved frame rates.  Again, given the change log I don't see why they would go up, but I also didn't make any changes to my hardware/software.  Guess my PC was just having a good day  Cheesy

-No clue on this one.... But happy to hear.

7) Given that the jet has a higher packet count for some reason, and given the fact that the jet is the FSX Blue Angels jet for 2014, perhaps consideration could be given to increase the packet count at which the FSX Blue Angels FS Open server automatically kicks aircraft.  I have noticed several people getting kicked from the FSXBA server while trying to fly it.  Seems like an oxymoron  Tongue

-I will take a look at this when I get a chance.  Not quite sure what would cause a high packet count.  Can you tell me what the packet count is?  Is it over by a little or lot?  My initial hunches is that it has to do with either the effects, FCS, or the fact that the trim functions now also move control surfaces, which is passed over the net....might be causing some event flooding.  I will do some digging.

As usual, thanks for the input.

[pyroperson87]

Please provide me with your Skype info (if you have Skype).  We'll talk and I'll give you another type of autorudder.  Be great if you can test this out for me prior to the next release.

I don't have Skype since I'm webcam-less.  I have TeamSpeak however if that would work.

Can you tell me what the packet count is?

Average last 30 second count is usually in the mid-800 range with spikes to about 900. I've seen the average go as low as 700-ish.  Maybe a multiplayer version like the 2012 would be an easy solution.  That is within the bounds of my FSX knowledge so I'll whip up a quick MP variant tonight.  I think for starters I'll just remove all the major effects and the data gauge and see how packets look after that.

[ExNusquam]

For the multiplayer packet issue, it might be due to the controller for the leading edge slats and trailing edge autoflaps. I know Metal2Mesh ran into a similar issue with their Mirage in earlier betas.

[jimi08]

I don't have Skype since I'm webcam-less.  I have TeamSpeak however if that would work.

I don't have a webcam either.  Skype is great for many things, such as data/file transfer (which is why I asked), instant messaging, VOIP, and screen sharing.  All for free.  It's a great way for me to quickly send you updated files, talk/chat about it and even share my/your screen to show exactly what's going on.  I highly recommend it.

For the multiplayer packet issue, it might be due to the controller for the leading edge slats and trailing edge autoflaps. I know Metal2Mesh ran into a similar issue with their Mirage in earlier betas.

-You're absolutely right!  Flaps will cause a high packet count.  However, this bird is using the same logic as the 2012 variant.  The technique I used to mitigate packet flooding with the flaps involved slowing the flap deployment/retraction speed, slowing the gauge refresh rate, and creating "gaps" in AOA regions in which the flaps needs to raise or lower (i.e. instead of flaps lowering to 3 degrees at 2.5 - 4.5 degrees AOA, and then to 6 degrees from 4.5 - 6.6 degrees AOA, I set a 0.5 degree  buffer (2.5 - 4.0, 4.5 - 6.0, 6.5 - etc) so that they wouldn't continually bounce themselves back and forth while they are in the transition zone.  Hope that makes sense.

[pyroperson87]

Skype is great for many things, such as data/file transfer (which is why I asked), instant messaging, VOIP, and screen sharing.  All for free.  It's a great way for me to quickly send you updated files, talk/chat about it and even share my/your screen to show exactly what's going on.  I highly recommend it.

Sounds good, I'll get it installed sometime this week.

As for the MP...

I removed almost all of the effects and tested BOTH the regular and the no-effects version and here are the packet count results.

Test conditions - Lemoore NAS, Clear skies, Noon, started on active runway.  All values are the PEAK packet count.

After 30 seconds without touching ANYTHING:
Effects - 589
No Effects - 560

Half flaps and wipe controls:
Effects - 781
No Effects - 679

Full burner departure, rotate at 145 IAS, retract gear and flaps as soon as VSI goes positive:
Effects - 823
No Effects - 766

At 245 IAS, full aft stick into the vertical, held until departure conditions develop:
Effects - 817
No Effects - 769

CV approach to Lemoore, measured from Abeam to touchdown with full flaps and gear:
Effects - 889
No Effects - 851


That was all the testing I was able to do, and I don't plan to do any more since those tests were pretty conclusive - The effects just plain don't contribute that much to the overall packet count.  The highest packet counts were indeed during any LEF/TEF movement. 

[mace]

Hi,

just reporting that I'm beginning repaint.
you know, basic things takes most part of the time.
I think I can show you what this will be this weekend .

[jimi08]

Excellent!  Thanks for the packet info and can't wait to see the new texture!

Just got word back from MadCatz.

Per our agreement you are free to modify the 3D files for your project.