Author Topic: New FSXBA Hornet  (Read 1152957 times)

Essex

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Re: New FSXBA Hornet
« Reply #225 on: February 03, 2014, 02:31:58 am »
I have to use a download manager, otherwise it stops downloading prematurely.

pyroperson87

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Re: New FSXBA Hornet
« Reply #226 on: February 03, 2014, 03:02:14 am »
Yes, that was my problem as well.  Ran archive test and got unexpected end of archive errors.  Thanks for the heads up.
Pops

pyroperson87

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Re: New FSXBA Hornet
« Reply #227 on: February 03, 2014, 03:41:34 am »
Okay fellas, ever since the first time I loaded up the FSXBA 2014 legacy, I just knew I had to make a video for it.  I was hoping not to post the video before completion, but things are about to get busy for a bit (I HOPE only this week) so I thought I'd show you guys the preview of what I have so far.  I hope you all find it worthy of the jet Jimi has put so much time and effort into.  Watch in 1080 and full screen, and ENJOY!  ;D



I have lots more ideas for footage that I plan on incorporating somehow since as you can see I've only done a fraction of what the Hornet is capable of. My list for future segments are as follows (some will make it to the final cut, others will not):

- BFM footage (ACT and DACT)
- Tanking from a KC-135T and the Superbug
- Low Level on the Sidewinder route
- Some airshow maneuvers (Min radius, high alpha, pirouette, etc)
- Day/Night Case 3 recoveries
- Formation flying
- A HUGE flyby of 20+ aircraft - For this segment I would like some opinions.  Do any of you know of a good quality E-2C, or EA-6B for FSX?  Obviously the priority for this one is that it needs to have good enough flight dynamics for me to fly in tight formation.
Pops

Herbie

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Re: New FSXBA Hornet
« Reply #228 on: February 03, 2014, 04:33:57 am »
I have a strange CG location and problem to align with a Carrier runway. Plane not responsive. Herb

Wingnut172N

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Re: New FSXBA Hornet
« Reply #229 on: February 03, 2014, 06:41:54 am »
Hey guys,

So I took the 14.2 jet for a quick spin and came up with this list of observations.  Don't get discouraged, as the sim is awesome! I love flying it, these are just some notes I made.  Any questions, feel free to ask.  Keep in mind also, I have NO experience in a Charlie, all my observations are based on Rhino training, so if there are significant differences in things I've mentioned, then someone please correct me.

-Old Hi-Gain NWS was more realistic feeling.  The current simulation isn't aggressive enough at low speeds.
-Ailerons should fair to a retracted position when the wings are unlocked.
-The sim's IFEI does not power down when battery/generator power is removed.
-Flap switch in the cockpit does not affect flap position.
-Flaps/Ailerons and Elevators should droop when hydraulic power is removed on shutdown.
-APU Accumulator light should extinguish when #2 engine is started during normal ops.
-APU shouldn't start when APU accumulator is depleted as indicated by the APU ACCUM light.
-Engine "moan" on start sounds are very realistic, way to go!
-FCS DDI Page/System/Reset/IBIT not simulated.
-Flight Controls do not have full visual range of motion.
-Ailerons should lag the flaps in both extension and retraction.  Also, ailerons retain their full range of motion even when drooped with the flaps.  As well, rudders retain full range of motion when toed-in.
-Tailhook Extension/Retraction speed seems fine.
-Probe extension/retraction is too fast.
-Standby attitude gyro should be white above black in level flight.
-Acceleration in A/B feels much too fast, but this is subjective.  My throttles show 125% on the SHIFT-8 gauge at full A/B.  A legacy accelerates faster than a Rhino though, so this could be accurate...but my gut says the takeoff acceleration in full A/B is exaggerated.
-25 degrees nose up to maintain 300 knots at military power with a CL tank and pylons also seems too powerful.  The Rhino usually can only perform like that when slick.  Add a tank and pylons and typical pitch angle is ~18 degrees nose up at mil/300 knots.
-G limiter should help modulate G to 7.5 maximum above corner speed ~400 knots whereas I pulled 12.8 even with a very gradual onset from 1.23 Mach, however Betty doesn't have an 'over-g' aural warning like the sim does, and in certain conditions the jet can pull over 7.5 G without popping an overstress code.
-AOA shake is actual a relatively accurate simulation of the actual airframe buffet under g if the Legacy shakes like a Rhino does in the high-alpha environment.
-Wings in a Hornet shake during High-G.  Perhaps tie wing shake to the wing flex code?
-Energy Bleed rates at idle seem too high.  3G break from 350 knots shed 150 knots in 90 degrees of turn.  Seems excessive.
-Flaps can be extended independent of the landing gear in the real jet.
-Trimmed AOA should be shown on the lower right of the HUD in the landing configuration when the trim is moved.  Looks like current AOA is displaying there right now.  This assumes 23X software, which is the software load that shows a power carrot.  I don't believe the Hornet has a power carrot.  My understanding is only 23X and above Rhinos have it...Hornets don't display it even thought they use the same software load.  Correct me if this is wrong.
-Landing light switch shouldn't shut off upon gear retraction.  Landing light extinguishes, but the switch remains on.
-Speed Brake annunciator should be green vice white? (If the charlie is identical to the rhino)
-A/A, A/G, and Fire Extinguisher Ready Lights should be dark when not illuminated.
-Hook Bypass switch should automatically switch to "Carrier" when generator power is removed, or the hook is extended.
-Annunciator Panel should go dark when electrical power is removed.

LtButler

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Re: New FSXBA Hornet
« Reply #230 on: February 03, 2014, 10:15:02 am »
Do any of you know of a good quality E-2C, or EA-6B for FSX?  Obviously the priority for this one is that it needs to have good enough flight dynamics for me to fly in tight formation.

Alphasim has a very nice EA-6B with good physics and a very good looking exterior model.

The only E-2C for FSX i believe at the moment is by Abacus :-X...nuff said, lol.

jimi08

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Re: New FSXBA Hornet
« Reply #231 on: February 03, 2014, 11:02:38 am »
Pyro: nice bid you got going so far!

Wingnut: thanks for the feedback. Very detailed. Some of the items I should be able to adjust, others, not so much due to lack of experience or access to certain model files. I'll try my best though. Thanks again gents.

Justin "Jimi" Hendrix
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FSXBA F/A-18C Hornet Latest Download Link: http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,6944.msg117011.html#msg1

jimi08

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Re: New FSXBA Hornet
« Reply #232 on: February 03, 2014, 12:34:18 pm »
Here I what I can/can't do based on my resources and abilities.  Thank again for the input.

-Old Hi-Gain NWS was more realistic feeling.  The current simulation isn't aggressive enough at low speeds. (Can fix this)
-Ailerons should fair to a retracted position when the wings are unlocked. (I don't have the capacity to fix this)
-The sim's IFEI does not power down when battery/generator power is removed. (Should be able to fix this)
-Flap switch in the cockpit does not affect flap position. (Let me dig into this. I might be able to fix)
-Flaps/Ailerons and Elevators should droop when hydraulic power is removed on shutdown. (Might be able to fix)
-APU Accumulator light should extinguish when #2 engine is started during normal ops. (Might be able to fix)
-APU shouldn't start when APU accumulator is depleted as indicated by the APU ACCUM light. (Might be able to fix)
-Engine "moan" on start sounds are very realistic, way to go!
-FCS DDI Page/System/Reset/IBIT not simulated. (Can't do this one)
-Flight Controls do not have full visual range of motion. (Under what conditions?)
-Ailerons should lag the flaps in both extension and retraction.  Also, ailerons retain their full range of motion even when drooped with the flaps.  As well, rudders retain full range of motion when toed-in. (Don't have the ability to fix this)
-Tailhook Extension/Retraction speed seems fine.
-Probe extension/retraction is too fast. (Don't have the ability to fix this)
-Standby attitude gyro should be white above black in level flight. (Should be able to fix this)
-Acceleration in A/B feels much too fast, but this is subjective.  My throttles show 125% on the SHIFT-8 gauge at full A/B.  A legacy accelerates faster than a Rhino though, so this could be accurate...but my gut says the takeoff acceleration in full A/B is exaggerated. (Acknowledged, work in progress)
-25 degrees nose up to maintain 300 knots at military power with a CL tank and pylons also seems too powerful.  The Rhino usually can only perform like that when slick.  Add a tank and pylons and typical pitch angle is ~18 degrees nose up at mil/300 knots. (Work on fixing)
-G limiter should help modulate G to 7.5 maximum above corner speed ~400 knots whereas I pulled 12.8 even with a very gradual onset from 1.23 Mach, however Betty doesn't have an 'over-g' aural warning like the sim does, and in certain conditions the jet can pull over 7.5 G without popping an overstress code. (I'll work on this)
-AOA shake is actual a relatively accurate simulation of the actual airframe buffet under g if the Legacy shakes like a Rhino does in the high-alpha environment.
-Wings in a Hornet shake during High-G.  Perhaps tie wing shake to the wing flex code? (Actually does shake, I'll tweak)
-Energy Bleed rates at idle seem too high.  3G break from 350 knots shed 150 knots in 90 degrees of turn.  Seems excessive. (I'll look into this)
-Flaps can be extended independent of the landing gear in the real jet. (I had problems figuring this out in the past.  I'll revisit and see if I can fix)
-Trimmed AOA should be shown on the lower right of the HUD in the landing configuration when the trim is moved.  Looks like current AOA is displaying there right now.  This assumes 23X software, which is the software load that shows a power carrot.  I don't believe the Hornet has a power carrot.  My understanding is only 23X and above Rhinos have it...Hornets don't display it even thought they use the same software load.  Correct me if this is wrong. (Tried this in the past.  Beyond my ability to accurately imitate)
-Landing light switch shouldn't shut off upon gear retraction.  Landing light extinguishes, but the switch remains on.  (I'll see what I can do.  Should be able to do.)
-Speed Brake annunciator should be green vice white? (If the charlie is identical to the rhino) (Easy fix)
-A/A, A/G, and Fire Extinguisher Ready Lights should be dark when not illuminated. (Easy fix)
-Hook Bypass switch should automatically switch to "Carrier" when generator power is removed, or the hook is extended. (Should be able to fix)
-Annunciator Panel should go dark when electrical power is removed. (Should be able to fix)

Justin "Jimi" Hendrix
FSX Blue Angels
FSXBA F/A-18C Hornet Latest Download Link: http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,6944.msg117011.html#msg1

pyroperson87

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Re: New FSXBA Hornet
« Reply #233 on: February 03, 2014, 03:41:43 pm »
Quote
-Old Hi-Gain NWS was more realistic feeling.  The current simulation isn't aggressive enough at low speeds.

That was my fault... I requested Jimi tone them down since as of now we don't have a way to toggle between modes, and I didn't always want HI gain when dropping below 7 or 8 knots.  :-[

Quote
-Flight Controls do not have full visual range of motion. (Under what conditions?)

I have noticed this too, under all conditions.  AFAIK it is only the stabs that lack in full ROM.  

That being said, if you are using the CHK page and cycle the stick it shows the NU/ND units for the stabs, and they are within NATOPS spec, so it is only a visual anomaly.  NATOPS excerpt (Ch. 7, Shore-Based Procs., 7.1.6 Before Taxi checks, #13a, Controls Checks):

- Full aft: 24 NU stabilator
- Full fwd: 3 NU
- R/L Aileron: CHECK 20 units differential stabilator.
                   CHECK differential trailing edge flaps  Wingnut can you shed some light on this one?  Am I understanding it correctly that there will be more flap extension on the side of the lateral stick input? I.E. Right stick provides more right trailing edge flap extension?

EDIT: Found full stab deflection information. Chapter 10, Functional Checkflight Procs., 10.2.1.3 Before Taxi, #10 Full stabilator travel verification.  Excerpt:

Set stab trim to 4 degrees NU and verify that:
Flaps - FULL
     AFT: 24 NU
     FWD: 10 ND
     Wings spread - R/L AILERON: 16 differential stabilator
     (Wings folded - R/L AILERON: 20 differential stabilator)

Quote
Hornets don't display it even thought they use the same software load.  Correct me if this is wrong.

I believe late Lot/Block Charlie's indeed do show the energy caret.  I think I remember an instance in the mini-series "Carrier" of HUD footage of a Legacy from VFA-94 or perhaps VMFA-232 during pitching deck ops that showed the caret.  I'll watch through the series again sometime and see if I can find it.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 04:12:48 pm by pyroperson87 »
Pops

jimi08

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Re: New FSXBA Hornet
« Reply #234 on: February 03, 2014, 04:12:02 pm »
Got some questions for you:
-You guys wouldn't happen to know the amount of thrust produced by the GE-F404s at ground and in-flight idle would you?
-How many stages does the Afterburners have?
-What is the fuel flow and thrust output of the first stage of afterburners?
« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 04:33:28 pm by jimi08 »

Justin "Jimi" Hendrix
FSX Blue Angels
FSXBA F/A-18C Hornet Latest Download Link: http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,6944.msg117011.html#msg1

pyroperson87

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Re: New FSXBA Hornet
« Reply #235 on: February 03, 2014, 04:32:38 pm »
Quote
You guys wouldn't happen to know the amount of thrust produced by the GE-F404s at ground and in-flight idle would you?

Depends on variant (As per NATOPS):

-400 has ~16,000lbs MAX thrust, ~10,700lbs MIL thrust

-402 has ~18,000lbs MAX thrust. ~10,900lbs MIL thrust

I will keep searching for idle thrust values, but they appear to be in A1-F18AC-NFM-200/210, which I haven't been able to get access to so far.

Quote
How many stages does the Afterburners have?

It is my understanding that GE's don't have "stages" of burner, but rather just a min (just past the blower detent), mid (somewhere between the blower detent and the stops), and max (at the stops), that are directly correlated to the spray bar position inside the afterburner assembly.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 04:44:59 pm by pyroperson87 »
Pops

pyroperson87

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Re: New FSXBA Hornet
« Reply #236 on: February 03, 2014, 04:58:57 pm »
I found this:

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/pdf/88166main_H-1556.pdf

Pages 9 and 10 have all the thrust values you could ever need for in-flight at 10,000ft 30,000ft, and 40,000ft.

Note that the units net thrust are displayed as lbf, which I at first assumed lbs-ft (which really doesn't make any sense anyway).  Note that the units are Pounds-Force, which is essentially saying the same thing at just pounds.  In short, the conversion factor is ONE, hence 5000 lbf = 5000 lbs.  Also note that the tables display calculated net thrust, not static thrust.  I'm not sure if FSX differentiates between the two.

Hope you can find some use for this Jimi.

EDIT: For work purposes - note that the entire document is UNCLASSIFIED.  I work at Lockheed Martin in a classified position...wouldn't want to lose my security clearance over something stupid like accidentally posting a classified document I scrounged up on the internet.  ::)
« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 05:09:31 pm by pyroperson87 »
Pops

Wingnut172N

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Re: New FSXBA Hornet
« Reply #237 on: February 03, 2014, 05:30:30 pm »
Quote
That was my fault... I requested Jimi tone them down since as of now we don't have a way to toggle between modes, and I didn't always want HI gain when dropping below 7 or 8 knots.

No worries! As SOP almost all turns while taxiing are made in high gain NWS.  Reason is, we come to idle before making turns so we don't sweep PC's and Line Personnel with the exhaust.  In low gain we would be at idle for too long and the jet would come to a stop on the taxiway.  To mitigate this we will taxi under power all the way up until almost a 90 degree turn is required, pull the throttles to idle, engage NWS HI and swing the nose around rapidly, then release NWS HI and come back up on the power before the jet stops rolling.  We use our inertia to carry us through the turns, and Hi-Gain is the only way to make this feasible.

Quote
CHECK differential trailing edge flaps[/b]  Wingnut can you shed some light on this one?  Am I understanding it correctly that there will be more flap extension on the side of the lateral stick input? I.E. Right stick provides more right trailing edge flap extension?

When the flaps are in AUTO and the stick is deflected left or right, the stabilators, ailerons, and TEFs will will deflect differentially to execute the roll command.  Once the flaps are lowered to HALF or FULL, the TEF's are locked to a symmetrical deployment and roll control is provided by the stabs and drooped ailerons.

Quote
I believe late Lot/Block Charlie's indeed do show the energy caret.  I think I remember an instance in the mini-series "Carrier" of HUD footage of a Legacy from VFA-94 or perhaps VMFA-232 during pitching deck ops that showed the caret.  I'll watch through the series again sometime and see if I can find it.

Roger that.  Early Rhinos that share software with the Hornet (23X software) only display the energy caret with the gear down.  Higher lot Rhinos display it all the time.  When looking at the HUD footage, make sure it's actually a Charlie HUD.  No real way to tell in a TV show because the editors could have chopped different footage in different places.  Approach speed would be a big clue.  120-135 being a Rhino and 130-150 likely being a Legacy, but again that's inconclusive.

__________________________________________


The only visual range of motion I get on the flight controls is pitch movement of the stabs and yaw in the rudders.  Roll inputs show very little differential of the ailerons/flaps/stabs.  The real jet has ~30 degrees of differential (in a Super) so it's pretty significant on the ground.

Also, when I say that the ailerons maintain their full range of motion, I mean that even when they are drooped, the aileron will deflect above the wing when full lateral stick is applied.  Most sims simply change the centerpoint of the aileron when drooped, but that isn't the case, the surface retains its full upward deflection limit even when it is drooped with the flaps.

The same is true for the rudder.  If the rudders are toed in, and full rudder is applied in one direction, BOTH rudders will end up deflected fully in the direction on the input, currently, one rudder deflects and the other fairs to neutral which is incorrect.

VRS has simulated this incorrectly as well.  Probably a limitation of FSX and the way it understands drooping controls.



Very excited about this jet, guys!  Hopefully I don't discourage you with my detailed feedback, just trying to help make this thing as accurate as we can.  Even in it's current "beta" state it is by far the best Legacy Hornet around, and on it's way to becoming even better!! Rock on! PRESS!!
« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 05:36:15 pm by Wingnut172N »

ExNusquam

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Re: New FSXBA Hornet
« Reply #238 on: February 03, 2014, 06:10:56 pm »
Quote
VRS has simulated this incorrectly as well.  Probably a limitation of FSX and the way it understands drooping controls.
If you can, shoot VRS some info on this. I'm fairly confident that they use custom variables for the flight controls, which means they should be able to fix it.

As for the Hornet, the new power curve feels better. I can fly the ball without getting OCP. Also, Butler, I'm loving the new textures.

Acceleration and Deceleration feel very excessive to me. TO run in AB is way, way to fast, and acceleration in AB just feels way to quick. Deceleration in turns is high, and I feel like the deceleration with the speedbrakes out is to high as well. If I get a chance later this week I'll compare the performance against the NATOPS.

pyroperson87

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Re: New FSXBA Hornet
« Reply #239 on: February 03, 2014, 06:54:15 pm »
Quote
No real way to tell in a TV show because the editors could have chopped different footage in different places

Very good point.  After watching, I couldn't find the footage I was thinking of anyway. 
Pops