justdion
Newbie
Posts: 3
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« on: February 21, 2012, 08:40:58 AM » |
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justdion
Newbie
Posts: 3
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« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2012, 08:43:18 AM » |
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Of course, I'm not forcing you to do this, whatsoever... If you do decide to implement such a feature, I'm patient and I can wait as long as you guys need lol  |
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Lawgiver
Newbie
Posts: 46
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« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2012, 08:57:16 AM » |
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Great video's.....Didn't think they did that anymore. Would be a nice option.
Rob
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pete_auau
Jr. Member
Posts: 88
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« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2012, 12:02:30 PM » |
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Great video's.....Didn't think they did that anymore. Would be a nice option.
Rob
yea you find that they dont do this any more since it caused an aircraft to crash soon after take off. In short what happened the aircaft used this methord since the tug couldnt push the aircraft back so the captain decided to use reverse thrust of his engines and it all the snow was blown back onto to the wings and formed back to ice. and the aircraft than didnt do a de ice since it had it done b4 so when it tried to take off it only manged to fly a further 2 kms b4 it crashed due to lack of lift. Official cause of the crash was determined by using the unathorised use reversers during pushback |
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marvic
Newbie
Posts: 45
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« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2012, 07:49:03 PM » |
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Also Powerback creates a lot noise close to the terminal and higher risk of debris ingestion in the engines as told to me from a Westjet Pilot...........
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Cheers, Marvic.
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Lawgiver
Newbie
Posts: 46
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« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2012, 05:50:26 AM » |
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yea you find that they dont do this any more since it caused an aircraft to crash soon after take off. In short what happened the aircaft used this methord since the tug couldnt push the aircraft back so the captain decided to use reverse thrust of his engines and it all the snow was blown back onto to the wings and formed back to ice. and the aircraft than didnt do a de ice since it had it done b4 so when it tried to take off it only manged to fly a further 2 kms b4 it crashed due to lack of lift. Official cause of the crash was determined by using the unathorised use reversers during pushback
Hi Pete, You wouldn't happen to know the carrier or location where that happened by any chance. I would like to find out some additional info. Regards, Rob |
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pete_auau
Jr. Member
Posts: 88
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« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2012, 10:55:21 AM » |
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yea you find that they dont do this any more since it caused an aircraft to crash soon after take off. In short what happened the aircaft used this methord since the tug couldnt push the aircraft back so the captain decided to use reverse thrust of his engines and it all the snow was blown back onto to the wings and formed back to ice. and the aircraft than didnt do a de ice since it had it done b4 so when it tried to take off it only manged to fly a further 2 kms b4 it crashed due to lack of lift. Official cause of the crash was determined by using the unathorised use reversers during pushback
Hi Pete, You wouldn't happen to know the carrier or location where that happened by any chance. I would like to find out some additional info. Hi found the info u need it was a air florida 737 flight 90 on the jan13 1982 left washington national airport and crashed into the potomac river only 5 surviours were found.. Just google airflorida aircrashes and till u find the flight90 Regards, Rob |
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Lawgiver
Newbie
Posts: 46
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« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2012, 04:55:06 PM » |
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Thanks for the info Pete.
Rob
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caffman263
Newbie
Posts: 20
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« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2012, 10:04:26 PM » |
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Great video's.....Didn't think they did that anymore. Would be a nice option.
Rob
yea you find that they dont do this any more since it caused an aircraft to crash soon after take off. In short what happened the aircaft used this methord since the tug couldnt push the aircraft back so the captain decided to use reverse thrust of his engines and it all the snow was blown back onto to the wings and formed back to ice. and the aircraft than didnt do a de ice since it had it done b4 so when it tried to take off it only manged to fly a further 2 kms b4 it crashed due to lack of lift. Official cause of the crash was determined by using the unathorised use reversers during pushback There was quite a lot more to that crash than just trying to powerback in the snow.. Although I'm not sure why they thought that was a good idea in a 737 at all, the manual specifically prohibits it. The aircraft that can do this all have tail mounted engines, and it's increasingly rare for the other reasons mentioned. The big one is FOD (Foreign Object Damage) risk. |
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pete_auau
Jr. Member
Posts: 88
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« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2012, 04:23:15 PM » |
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in this case it was the cause of it being the snow being blown back on the wings
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MatzeH84
Newbie
Posts: 14
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« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2012, 08:56:19 PM » |
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The Eastern Airways Jetsream 41's power back time to time.. it's the first video when you search for 'Jetsream Pushback' on youtube.
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pete_auau
Jr. Member
Posts: 88
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« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2012, 05:24:21 AM » |
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yea but props are different there engines are in front of the wings so they dont get any snow or debris being blown back into the engines or wings as do jet engines when they use reverse thrust
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caffman263
Newbie
Posts: 20
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« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2012, 10:34:12 AM » |
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in this case it was the cause of it being the snow being blown back on the wings
No, it really wasn't. The accident was caused by improper de-icing by ground crew, the flight crew's failure to be de-iced again after snow accumulated on the wings, and failure to use engine anti-ice which lead to improper EPR settings on takeoff from a short, wet runway. The only mention of power back is that they (against procedure) attempted it when the tug got stuck in the snow. Frankly, the little bit of snow that would have been blown back, if any, would be far outweighed by the snow falling from the sky as it was still snowing. NTSB report: http://libraryonline.erau.edu/online-full-text/ntsb/aircraft-accident-reports/AAR82-08.pdfThe National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable cause
of this accident was the flightcrew’s failure to use engine anti-ice during ground operation
and takeoff, their decision to take off with snow/ice on the airfoil surfaces of the
aircraft, and the captain’s failure to reject the takeoff during the early stage when his
attention was called to anomalous engine instrument readings. Contributing to the
accident were the prolonged ground delay between deicing and the receipt of ATC takeoff
clearance during which the airplane was exposed to continual precipitation, the known
inherent pitchup characteristics of the B-737 aircraft when the leading edge is
contaminated with even small amounts of snow or ice, and the limited exwence of the
flightcrew in jet transport winter operations Simple version: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Florida_Flight_90 |
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« Last Edit: February 25, 2012, 10:36:12 AM by caffman263 »
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pete_auau
Jr. Member
Posts: 88
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« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2012, 01:31:26 PM » |
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heres a different version The investigation of the crash concluded that the combination of the crew's use of thrust reverse on the ground, and their failure to active the engine anti-ice system, caused the crash. By failing to activate the engine anti-ice, the large amouts of snow and ice that were sucked into the engines during reverse thrust use was allowed to remain there, unchallenged. The ice buildup on the compressor inlet pressure probe, the probe which measures engine power, can cause false readings, as was the case here. The indications in the cockpit showed an Engine Pressure Ratio of 2.04, while the power plants were in reality only producing 1.70 EPR, or about 70% of available power. The combination of the ice covered wings and low power caused an immediate stall on takeoff that resulted in 74 lives lost. so this was the same version that was shown on the tv series aircraft crash investiagtion that was shown here the oithe r nite http://www.airdisaster.com/special/special-af90.shtml |
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« Last Edit: February 26, 2012, 01:33:45 PM by pete_auau »
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