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Author Topic: Free Greystone scenery for FSX released!  (Read 18446 times)
virtuali
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« on: April 12, 2008, 08:02:54 PM »

Hello to all,

We'd like to introduce our first bonus product. It's Greystone - Ocala, FL airport (17FL), home of the Jumbolair aviation community ( http://www.jumbolair.com ), with the largest private residential runway in the US.

This airport is quite famous because John Travolta's house is located on its grounds. This is were he parks his own Boeing 707.

The scenery is for FSX only (sorry, no FS9 version is planned). We decided to offer it for free, as a gift to all our Chicago O'Hare customers that supported us so far. This means the scenery will be automatically active, if you bought O'Hare, otherwise it will run in Trial mode. However, it's not possible to "Buy" Greystone alone, it will be activated only together with O'Hare.

Regardless of its small size, the scenery has been made just like any payware product: it has an hi-resolution 26 cm/pixel photo-realistic background with autogen that blends nicely with the surrounding area, several animations of birds, cars and people, AFCAD with a parking stand big enough for a jumbo jet in front of the house and, of course, John Travolta's house fully modeled and textured in 3D. Runway texture has been enhanced too with skid markings, and while we were at it, we found default 17FL runway heading was off by 10 degrees, so the scenery corrects that as well.

In brief, a nice small airfield for FSX that might be a good starting point for your VFR flights...

So, if you have Chicago O'Hare, don't wait further and try this little freebie for you, and let us know what you think. This is a way to say "Thank You" to all our customers.

To get the scenery, download it from here:



« Last Edit: January 27, 2010, 02:15:32 AM by virtuali » Logged

Umberto Colapicchioni
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Razgriz
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« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2008, 10:53:52 PM »

Thank you!  I love it!!

I think you just earned a purchase of O'Hare judging this quality (ITS FREEWARE TOO!).
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bkircher
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« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2008, 05:25:39 AM »

WOW thanks!!! Its too cool
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Dillon
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« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2008, 07:03:19 AM »

Here we go again punishing those who still use FS9...  Undecided

There were many of us who supported the KORD project as well, where's our thank you???  Huh
« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 07:17:29 AM by Dillon » Logged
M-Sauce
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« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2008, 07:15:19 AM »

Reminds me of the PMDG fiasco  Sad

It is expected, as I'm sure all developers are trying to push FS9 out the door. Makes sense, much easier making sceneries for one product I guess.

I still won't switch to FSX for one simple reason. When I upgraded to FS9, it was because the change was dramatic. I'm just not seeing it with FSX.

Mariano
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Alessandro
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« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2008, 10:13:28 AM »

FSdreamteam products will be for FS9 and FSX (double products one price), Greystone is a free scenery.
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thepilot
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« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2008, 12:33:31 PM »

FSdreamteam products will be for FS9 and FSX (double products one price), Greystone is a free scenery.

...only for customers of O'Hare.
I notice that the vast majority here sticks to FS9...
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virtuali
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« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2008, 02:02:33 PM »

I notice that the vast majority here sticks to FS9...

Our data doesn't show that.

Of course we can't really estimate sales, because our products are sold as a single license for FS9 and FSX. We only have download data and right now, there's no "vast majority" of FS9. It's about 50/50, with FSX slightly improving during the months (when Zurich was released, it was about 60/40 for FS9).

If we had to estimate sales, it's not even said that FS9 and FSX have the same download/sale ratio. I think FSX might have the edge here, because there isn't much competition for scenery in FSX and for big airports there's basically none. But let's just assume the download/sale ratio is the same.

Judging sim usage based just on forum activity will give misleading results: the only evidence is that the FSX version has less issues. If you take out from the FS9 section all the discussions about Harpsi's AFCAD (they are for FS9 only), about FS9 crashing because of not having it patched for >2GB properly (FSX doesn't need that), not much remains. The "perfect" product, should have its support section basically silent, but that would not mean the product wasn't a success: rather the opposite, in fact.

However, that's not the point, it was only to clarify there's no such thing as a vast majority of FS9 users, it's basically a market splitted in two, and that is the worse possible situation. If we *really* had a "vast majority" of either sim, we might do a clear choice of supporting just one, but this is not the case.

The market splitted in two forces us to still support FS9. It's not a secret, as we said many times, this is less than ideal. Having to support FS9 it's a burden, not much because of the additional effort it takes to do two versions, but because it forces to design both versions with cross-compatibility in mind right from the start. Because of this, both versions are not 100% of what they might be, and the FSX one it's the one that pays the higher price.

However, this is what users want, so we don't have any other choice than supporting both sims, for commercial products.

Greystone it's a free product, the fact it can only be used by O'Hare customers, doesn't change the fact that is free, I really don't think many will start buying O'Hare now, just to get Greystone and, even if some users will do that, it might just pay the bandwidth for hosting it.

When making two versions of any product, there's some overhead involved, like setting up our shared servers to host the source codes (we are not working in the same office, we are not even in the same city, so we work over a versioning server), compiling two versions of the scenery, taking into account SDK differences (photoreal terrain is *entirely* different in FSX), compiling two installers, uploading them.

While this overhead is manageable for a commercial product, it's simply too much for a free product. That's why there's no FS9 version.

And, why not accepting the simplest explanation of all ? This scenery was made basically as a pastime and as a way to test a couple of things and, since we ARE FSX USERS, we did it for FSX. Plain and simple. Would have been better if we kept it onto our hard drives, instead of sharing it ?

We said already that our FS9 support it's confirmed at least for KJFK and KDFW. After that, we'll have to decide, considering the market at the end of the year.

But that's just for sceneries. There are other non-scenery products we are working on, and those will be FSX ONLY.

We said already there's no way we'll ever do an airplane for FS9, because there are simply too many differences there, and FSX is VASTLY superior to FS9, for an airplane developer (just consider that we did the F/A-18 in about 3-4 months, when other airplane developers are working on their stuff for *years*, probably because are lost in the Black Hole of figuring out how to move an existing FS9 project into FSX).

Also, there is an unannounced product we've been working on for a while, that is not scenery nor airplane, that's for FSX only, and it wouldn't be possible in FS9.

And, we have an ongoing project, that is not something users will directly get in touch with (it's some kind of an engine), but that will hopefully enhance the simulation experience a lot, and it will start showing up what FSX REALLY can do and, because it's entirely tied to Simconnect, will be FSX only.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 03:13:11 PM by virtuali » Logged

Umberto Colapicchioni
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thepilot
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« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2008, 02:35:30 PM »

When I said 'here' I was referring to the forum... double the posts in FS9 support section compared to the FSX one.
If it's your decision to make some special stuff for FSX only... it's ok. I just wanted to stress that FS9 users are customers, too.
So it would have been a nice 'present' from you guys to make it available for both 9 and X.
Just my 2 cents...
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virtuali
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« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2008, 03:11:59 PM »

When I said 'here' I was referring to the forum... double the posts in FS9 support section compared to the FSX one.

As I've said, that might only indicate the FS9 version has more issues than the FSX one. Or, even if not really "issues", more things to talk to. See the example of Harpsi's AFCADs: half of the forum messages in the FS9 section relate to that, because they are available for FS9 only. And BTW, no FSX user complained about that...

The two versions are not the same, and never will. FSX have animated jetways by default, FS9 users have to spend extra money on AES to get that (well, more than just that, but still...). FSX has much better animated ground traffic that moves as AI with real physics and better behavior, FS9 has those jerky keyframed Gmax animations instead.


Quote
I just wanted to stress that FS9 users are customers, too

Don't forget that you also bought a right to use the FSX version. If you have FSX, even if it's not your main sim, you can always use Greystone in FSX. You don't even need to install O'Hare for FSX, if it's active on FS9, you can install just Greystone in FSX.

It lies in an area were the frame rate is particularly good and, since the common opinion that FSX is the better sim for VFR, it makes much more sense using this airfield in FSX.
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Umberto Colapicchioni
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Dillon
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« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2008, 06:23:48 PM »

Virtuali like what happened on Simflight you guys should host a poll.  The big thing your missing here is your making scenery for airliner flying.  I'd be willing to bet 90% of your customers are still using FS9 for airliner flying.  Because there's so little for FSX most of these very same people also purchased the FSX version to get good scenery in that sim.  The caveat in this whole situation is your not going to get a good well rounded experience landing at KORD nor Zurick in Level-D's 767 or PMDG's 744 with the hardware most people have.  You need FS9 to do that.  If I had FSX installed I'd buy the FSX version as well, why not.  If you were doing GA airports that would be one thing but FSX is crap flying complex airliners into major cities.  So do a poll and see how many have both sims installed.  Your screwing customers pushing FSX in this way.  I actually wanted this airport ever since I found out 2 years ago who lived there.  Now I find it's only for a dog slow version of Flight Simulator that won't really shine for another 2 years (heck FS11 might be out by then with a whole other version of Windows).  I feel very let down by what your doing here.  I have a Duo Core 2.66 1333FSB machine with a 640MB 8800GTS video card.  I will not touch FSX with a yard stick.  FS9 runs about as fluid as reality on my current system, why go back to 10FPS with sliders pulled back left (actually pulled back further if I'm using a complex airliner trying to fly into high end airport like FSDT's KORD)Huh  A friend of mine is catching hell with FSX/airliner add-on flying and he has a better system than mine...  You can't compare what you get in FS9 with what you get in FSX performance wise.  Candy and features do nothing if you can't use them due to performance issues. This is the kind of mess your dishing out concerning 'FSX only' and in all intents and purposes is a slap in the face to your airliner simmer market (which in bulk are FS9 users, your main market for the type of scenery you mainly do).  I'm just barely getting it after all these years how nice the PMDG 737 FDE really is especially in the VC.  Landing with the ground rushing up under your aircraft into KORD is finally as it should be.  FSX by contrast is going to give you a few pauses and stutters in the PMDG 744 as it loads up airport textures, the sound it needs to run when the wheels hit the ground causes pauses as well, and then you had better have autogen and other features turned down to a point you see a blurry landscape in the distance on approach to get something half way resembling decent.

So please put a poll up to see how many people are using both sims.  Make it official instead of guessing by sales...  More times than not the majority of airliner/2D panel simmers are still using FS9.  GA fliers use FSX but the bulk of your customers have both installed for different purposes.   Don't get me wrong you'll have some people like I mentioned above trying to push the PMDG 744/KORD in FSX but the majority of us can't afford the hardware to reasonably make that happen.  You should consider everyone who supports your products for whatever scenery your doing.  This little special treatment for FSX users come off as a subtle middle finger to everyone else who doesn't drink the MS cool aide... Like I said if all you did was GA airports you'd totally be justified with FSX but what's happening here is something else.  I can't say this enough, 'Airliner Simmers' more times than not use FS9 and again in many cases HAVE BOTH SIMS INSTALLED (not trying to yell just get the point across).   Do a 'POLL' and you'll find where your FSX sales are coming from.  Please don't screw your target market like this (FS9 is the best sim for the type of airports your producing and that's where the bulk of your market is)...  All your customers deserver little prizes like this.  I actually would pay for an FS9 version of this airport much like all of us would with an Orlando International airport for FS9 (which again we got screwed on that deal)... 

Please do a Poll and make future decisions from that data not anything else because as of now the 'shaft' is coming full force for allot of us....  Embarrassed
« Last Edit: April 16, 2008, 05:29:51 PM by Dillon » Logged
virtuali
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« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2008, 07:34:00 PM »

What's the point of making a poll AFTER we already decided to support FSX and FS9 for all the next  sceneries ?  If the market situation will still be the same at the end of 2008, we'll continue like this.

Quote
The big thing your missing here is your making scenery for airliner flying

The issue is that, opposite to what some might think, we don't want to restrict to scenery only. In fact, we started working together as a team with an airplane, the F/A-18 we did for Microsoft. And before that, we did some parts of the Cloud9 Phantom (just the VC and the gauges).

So, we don't see ourselves just as a scenery developer, but more like a Flight sim developer.

The fact we started with 2 sceneries, that will become 4 in the next months, it's because an airplane or any kind of non-scenery product, takes more time to design and test, and we need an headstart before being able to work on something more complex for 9-12 months at least, without going bankrupt in the meantime.

However, if you see us mainly as a developer of "scenery for airliner flying", you shouldn't be concerned because, as we said already, those type of products will be done for FS9 as well.


Quote
GA fliers use FSX but the bulk of your customers have both installed for different purposes.

So, there's no point discussing it further, since this thread is about a GA airfield being released for FSX only.

I think you are missing what this is all about: we haven't announced stopping FS9 support for things that matters to users flying airliners in FS9. We simply released a GA airfield for the supposedly better sim for GA.

Since, as you said yourself, the bulk of our customers have both installed, depending what kind of flight they want to do, FSX is the correct place for an airport like Greystone.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 08:24:38 PM by virtuali » Logged

Umberto Colapicchioni
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« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2008, 07:47:05 PM »

Thanks for the addition to my FSX flying, FSDT! You've got my support and looking forward to more payware and freeware you put out!

Additional note: I typically fly airliners on VATSIM...and gasp... I use FSX for it, I must be one of the "10%" I guess. Actually I use FSX for everything including GA so this is a great freebie for me. My FS9 disks has been collecting a nice coat of dust for the past several months, so if anyone wants 4 coasters let me know!

« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 07:50:44 PM by stewker » Logged
Dillon
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« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2008, 09:34:06 PM »

So, there's no point discussing it further, since this thread is about a GA airfield being released for FSX only.

I think you are missing what this is all about: we haven't announced stopping FS9 support for things that matters to users flying airliners in FS9. We simply released a GA airfield for the supposedly better sim for GA.

Since, as you said yourself, the bulk of our customers have both installed, depending what kind of flight they want to do, FSX is the correct place for an airport like Greystone.

First of all John Travolta's custom home and airport is something everyone in this community would want.  Yes it's a GA airport but it's not in the same ball park as Blaine airport located near me.  Bottom line is you guys brought out something here that's beyond a novelty.  Other GA fields maybe I'd concede the point but not John Travolta's home and personal airfield.  You guys really should reconsider for the sake of all your customers (I'd say the same thing if Neverland or Lucas Entertainment in California had a personal airfield and you guys modeled it)...

You'll never get an argument out of me about aircraft as there's more than enough developers still producing them for FS9 but again you can't have scenery like this depicting the home of a well known actor/pilot and shut out more than half your customer base, that's just wrong...  Undecided Embarrassed
« Last Edit: April 16, 2008, 05:27:14 PM by Dillon » Logged
Kofi
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« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2008, 01:47:25 AM »

I'm a bit different....
I fly primarily FSX....I have Zurich/FSX but I don't have O'hare...

Oh well....
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