Author Topic: vLSO Beta release  (Read 814501 times)

SpazSinbad

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SpazSinbad

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Re: vLSO Beta release
« Reply #841 on: January 14, 2014, 02:49:48 am »
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SpazSinbad

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Re: vLSO Beta release
« Reply #842 on: January 14, 2014, 03:12:42 am »
Earlier 'Paddles/FSXNP' asked about CLARA. From the notes above here is the gouge:

TW-1 Stan Notes I FTI Supplement FCL & CQL STAGES

"...(5) CLARA: Short for "clarify my position". The communication sequence after the CLARA call is crucial. After the CLARA call, the LSO will notify you of your position on glideslope (e.g. "you're high/low") and will continue to provide this information until either you land or call the ball. Once you acquire the ball after calling "CLARA" simply call, "ball", the LSO will then roger your ball call. CLARA calls are made at any time you do not see a ball on the lens. For example, the lens may have failed or the glare from the sun may impede your ability to pick up the ball. If you can't see lineup, call "CLARA lineup" and the LSO will begin to provide centerline information (e.g., "you're on centerline, you're lined up left, etc.")...."

http://www.cnatra.navy.mil/ebrief/documents/01_Training_Air_Wing_One/references/COLUMN%201/STAN%20NOTES/CQ.pdf
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GOONIE

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Re: vLSO Beta release
« Reply #843 on: January 14, 2014, 06:13:46 pm »
Another REALLY good presentation I found is here:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CC4QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnatra.navy.mil%2Febrief%2Fdocuments%2F02_Training_Air_Wing_Two%2F03_MPTS%2520%28.167%29%2F17_Adv.%2520Jet%2520-%2520CQL%2FSUPPLEMENTS%2FSUPPLEMENTAL%2520DOCUMENTS%2FMID-STAGE%2520LECTURE.ppt&ei=pWPUUuutBKugsQTRoYDgCw&usg=AFQjCNFI-O6fbBY61gitTRKUQluP59m_Fg&bvm=bv.59026428,d.cWc

Has some REALLY great illustrations indicating some "benchmarks" (gouges) you can use when flying the pattern (this is again in the T-45)

And sorry for the long link, I don't know how to make it all pretty and say something like "click here!"  :D


Nice find Pyro. Noticed on the big picture slide for FCLP, it states "expect 6-8 passes / period"

GOONIE
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Paddles

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Re: vLSO Beta release
« Reply #844 on: January 16, 2014, 05:06:29 am »
Well, guys
Today I have something to discuss...

In FSX (as in any other simulator) it's difficult, if at all possible, to follow NATOPS in general and CQ procedures in particular. No secret, we would fly FSX just for fun and entertainment, mostly on weekends, and we simply have no time to meet strict NATOPS requirements. At the same time, some of us still want to have the ability to fly as realistically as possible...

So, we have to find a good compromise satisfying the maximum number of virtual naval aviators and implement it in the vLSO program.

And here are my initial suggestions for your examination and discussion...

First, the previously suggested table remains unchanged:



I suggest following CQ definitions:

Undergraduate CQ
Pilot’s first day carrier qualifications prior to designation as a Naval Aviator.
14 day landings, 10 of which shall be arrested.

Initial CQ
Pilot’s first day or day/night carrier qualification as a designated Naval Aviator.
10 day arrested landings and 6 night arrested landings.

Requalification CQ
Pilot’s day/night currency exceeds 365 days but less than four years.
6 day arrested landings and 4 night arrested landings.

I additionally suggest to change the time requirements to meet 7 days, or weekends, schedule:

A FCLP refresher (or period) consists of 6 day and 6 night passes and shall be completed within 7 days.
No longer than 7 [10] days shall elapse between the last FCLP period and the first carrier landing.

Carrier qualification of any type shall be completed within a 7-day [30-day] period.


NOTE: Numbers in square brackets are NATOPS requirements.

And bear in mind - this my rather arbitrary decision is subject for criticism and your feedback is always welcome!
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 05:11:28 am by Paddles »
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pyroperson87

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Re: vLSO Beta release
« Reply #845 on: January 16, 2014, 06:08:30 am »
I'm really diggin' it!  For Initial CQ however, will there be no maximum number of passes (i.e X number of passes, Y number of those passes must be arrested)?  I think that would be a wise route to take allowing for the more casual simmer to still get a good feel of accomplishment and realism.  I just wasn't sure if you accidentally omitted that portion, or purposefully posted it that way.

Also, since I have been flying a lot more lately I have a few bug reports for you.  

1) I have been getting passes lately that are BOLTERS in the sim, but get graded in vLSO as if I caught a wire (but without showing a wire caught).  See pictures for an example of one such pass.  I have a friend that I recently introduced to vLSO that confirms that he has also had several of these.  I attached screens from one of his examples as well.

2) With manual ball call selected, if you fly a pass WITHOUT calling the ball, there is no waveoff call.  To my knowledge if the pilot does not call the ball OR call CLARA the LSO would trigger the waveoff lights and call for a waveoff.  Obviously you can't control the waveoff lights though  ;)

3) I have been getting the same error frequently, but this time I remember to screenshot it.  See attached for access violation error.

Don't think that I am by any means compaining about vLSO.  I can't fly FSX FCLP or carrier ops without it  ;D  I just want to help improve future releases.  Thanks for your awesome work!

EDIT: These were flown in multiplayer in the FSXBA server, hence the lack of wind over the deck.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 06:15:07 am by pyroperson87 »
Pops

Paddles

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Re: vLSO Beta release
« Reply #846 on: January 16, 2014, 07:07:53 am »
For Initial CQ however, will there be no maximum number of passes (i.e X number of passes, Y number of those passes must be arrested)?  I think that would be a wise route to take allowing for the more casual simmer to still get a good feel of accomplishment and realism.  I just wasn't sure if you accidentally omitted that portion, or purposefully posted it that way.
Yes, that was on purpose. I decided to not count T/Gs, thus the number of these passes would be unlimited.  ;)

1) I have been getting passes lately that are BOLTERS in the sim, but get graded in vLSO as if I caught a wire (but without showing a wire caught).  See pictures for an example of one such pass.  I have a friend that I recently introduced to vLSO that confirms that he has also had several of these.  I attached screens from one of his examples as well.
Have you (your friend) had this error in single player mode? With any previous vLSO betas?

2) With manual ball call selected, if you fly a pass WITHOUT calling the ball, there is no waveoff call.  To my knowledge if the pilot does not call the ball OR call CLARA the LSO would trigger the waveoff lights and call for a waveoff.  Obviously you can't control the waveoff lights though  ;)
Ok, my fault. Will check and correct the program.

3) I have been getting the same error frequently, but this time I remember to screenshot it.  See attached for access violation error.
Again, is this MP specific error? When exactly (at what part of an approach) does this window appear?

Thanks for the bugreport!
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pyroperson87

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Re: vLSO Beta release
« Reply #847 on: January 16, 2014, 03:46:45 pm »
I have not had this occur in any other version of vLSO.  I have only had it happen ONCE in free flight.  It has occurred a total of 3 times to me in multiplayer and twice for my friend.  He says it has not happened to him in single player.  I should also note that I was in the VRS Superbug and he was in the FSXBA 2012 Hornet.

I'm not sure exactly when that access violation occurred unfortunately.  I always fly full screen (that ugly start bar kills the realism ::) ) and I usually fly multiple passes before ending the flight and checking my vLSO logbook.  I can say that the error occurred during multiplayer FCLP at your KNRA scenery.  I have never had this access violation occur in free flight.


Now back to the good stuff!  ;D

For initial CQ I think it would be great if Dino's T-45 was mandatory for this portion.

For undergraduate CQ, any aircraft would be fine.  However, since there will be no limit to the number of passes used to obtain your minimum number of day/night traps, a way to still increase the challenge would be to have vLSO reject any passes that were flown with ATC APP enaged (or the equivalent autothrottle modes of other aircraft types).  I'm not sure that this is even physically possible to implement, or that anyone else would be interested in such a feature.  It would be great for realism though as ATC APP is not to be used during any CQ event.  In fact, even after you are qualed at the boat and are on a work-up, det, or deployment you still only get to use ATC at the discretion of your CO or CAG.  Just a thought.

That's all I have for now....I'm so excited for this!

Pops

GOONIE

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Re: vLSO Beta release
« Reply #848 on: January 16, 2014, 08:24:18 pm »
Paddles,

I've also had Bolters not called out (audio) or captured by vLSO in SP. I haven't had this happen since using the latest update 0.7.1.2, but I am not sure I've boltered yet. I have mainly been having the roger ball, paddles contact audio inconsistency with the manual call trigger, which I know you said you have fixed.

I like the CQ and FCLP criteria you've drafted. My only suggestion for FCLP refresher is to require bounces be at night. I talked to my friend who flies for VFA-37, he confirmed FCLP focus is at night. He also said a period is 6-8 bounces.

Monitoring Auto, or ATC engagement is a neat idea for CQ (restrict its use). Another cool thing you could do if vLSO could monitor Auto-throttle is adjust LSO calls. My friend told me that one of the reasons you call "Auto" on the ball call, is to let the LSO know whether to give Power or Attitude calls. Grading is the same for Auto and fully manual approaches.

GOONIE
"You've got to land here, son. This is where the food is."

pyroperson87

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Re: vLSO Beta release
« Reply #849 on: January 17, 2014, 04:04:31 am »
Hey Paddles, I found this video and it has some great audio from Marshal and the LSO:



I've already stripped the audio from it and started cutting it for use in my vLSO, but thought I'd point it out for you if you wanted more audio options for future releases.
Pops

GOONIE

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Re: vLSO Beta release
« Reply #850 on: January 17, 2014, 06:15:33 pm »
I just received a CD-R from my friend who is on cruise. The CD-R has four hours of raw PLAT cam footage and audio, needless to say it is pretty sweet  :o I watched it all last night, my wife called it "pilot porn".

The day time ops are pretty slow and audio is quiet (zip lip), the night time however is busy as you can imagine.

Right now I am trying to figure out how to transfer the data from the CD-R directly to my computer to cut up the audio for vLSO, stand by. The files are not in a common format (e.g. MP4, MOV, WMA) which would make this easier.

GOONIE
"You've got to land here, son. This is where the food is."

Paddles

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Re: vLSO Beta release
« Reply #851 on: January 17, 2014, 07:20:39 pm »
Cool! Just curious, what format do they use for PLAT videos? By the way, the capacity of a CD is about 600-700Mb, not a big deal nowadays... ))
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 07:41:28 pm by Paddles »
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GOONIE

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Re: vLSO Beta release
« Reply #852 on: January 17, 2014, 09:10:33 pm »
It was burned with some recording software, there is a Video_RM and Video_TS folder. There are several files inside each, looks like the .VOB is a place to start. I was able to get the .VOB files into windows movie maker, so will go from there.
"You've got to land here, son. This is where the food is."

SpazSinbad

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Re: vLSO Beta release
« Reply #853 on: January 17, 2014, 10:29:16 pm »
'Goonie' perhaps this will help with the .VOB file. It is actually an .MPG/MPEG file in a container so that it will play as a Video DVD along with the other files in the structure. So by itself the .VOB file can be renamed as an .MPEG/MPG and you will be able to put it into Windows Movie Maker I hope. I'm using Windows 8 now and have given it a try. It worked in previous versions of Windows also.

One proviso: If an old codec was used - greyscale for example - then this method may not work in Windows 8 or Windows (I forget now). However I have just tried this method with a colour .VOB and it works fine. Hope it goes well for you. I tried putting the same original .VOB file into WMM but no luck there for me. Renamed it was OK as an .MPG

Meanwhile... an oldie but a goldie from NeptunusLex (sadly now dead some several years).

Landing grades By lex 07 Sep 2004
http://www.neptunuslex.com/2004/09/07/landing-grades/
"We grade every landing that a pilot performs aboard the aircraft carrier.
        There’s a board in every ready room, displaying the color-coded grades. Everyone in that highly competitive environment knows exactly where he fits in the hierarchy of the one thing which separates every Navy pilot from his terrestrial, mortal counterparts: Landing aboard the ship. You could have an outstanding mission, replete with shacked targets, dead bandits and superior airborne leadership. But if you came back and landed on the “ace,” the one-wire, it was a bad hop. It’s not only what wire you catch (although that is important) – it’s how you get there. While it’s pretty hard to get a good grade on the one-wire, and impossible if you bolter, there are nearly as many 4.0 two-wires as there are three-wires. Smooth, predictable and controlled. Or at least making it look that way. Because we’re all about appearances. Actually, the reason why we grade landings is part of a continuous process improvement plan – we work hard to do it well when it’s easy, so that we can do it at all when it’s hard. And it does get hard. Chinese algebra hard, when the deck is moving, and the weather rolls in, and the moon is a distant memory of a time when it didn’t suck, quite so bad.
So the grades:
          OK – An “Oh-kay.” A 4.0 grade, pretty much the best that you can do – above average, in other words. There’s also the OK (Oh-kay, underline) – reserved for outstanding landings with significant complicating factors – an engine out, for example. You don’t count on OK.
Next is a (OK), or “fair” pass. Fleet average. The parentheses are used in LSO shorthand to indicate “a little.” So a (OK) is a little OK. A 3.0 grade.
          Next is a bolter, indicated by a “B.” A bolter is a 2.5 grade – better than the worst normal pass, the “No-grade” (2.0), defined as “below average.” A No-grade is ugly, but safely ugly. Nevertheless, you don’t want to make a habit of being safely ugly. You’re not getting paid for that.
          Next down the list is a “wave-off,” a 1.0 grade, defined as “unsettled dynamics, potentially unsafe.” The “eat at Joe’s” lights come on, you add full power, and are asked to try again. Harder.
          Finally comes the worst grade, the “Cut.” A 0.0 grade, defined as “unsafe deviations inside the wave-off window.” The wave-off window is that moment in space and time where no matter what the LSO tells you to do, you’re going to land. Somewhere. You definitely don’t want to get many of those. They’re career enders.
          Anyone who maintains a GPA above 3.0 is professionally safe. Anyone who’s GPA starts with a 2-point-anything had better start work-ing harder.
          The LSO’s use shorthand to grade a pass – something written down as: (OK) OC NEP-BC /IM (NEP-CDIC) SDAR LOBDRIW 2, would translate into, “Fair pass: over-controlled a little not enough power on the ball call, fly through up in the middle, a little not enough power on the come-down in close, settle/decel at the ramp, low, flat, drift right in the wires. Two-wire.” As a pilot, you’d like to hear as few comments as possible, since comment quantity has an inverse relationship to landing quality.
          At the end of every line period (anywhere from three weeks to three months, depending on what the carrier has been doing), the air wing will gather in the ship’s forecastle (pronounced foc’s'l) for an awards ceremony. There are songs, and skits and much buffoonery before awarding those pilots who have passed a milestone (100, 200, 300 traps, etc) and finally the “Top Ten” in landing grades. It’s a lot of fun, especially if you’re in the Top Ten. More especially still if you’re the number one guy, the “Top Hook.”
          Because landing aboard the ship at all hours, and in all conditions, is what we do. I mean, anyone can merely fly a fighter. Right?"
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 10:32:22 pm by SpazSinbad »
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SpazSinbad

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Re: vLSO Beta release
« Reply #854 on: January 17, 2014, 11:02:03 pm »
Some esoteric info:

“...For the French contingent, the exercise culminated with the deployment of 5 Rafales for 5 days onboard USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN-71). Prior to embarking on the carrier, Flottille 12F pilots performed 4 simulated field deck landings each (2 in daytime & 2 at night) [probably meaning FCLP sessions I guess - 4 total] at NAS Oceana or at nearby Naval Auxiliary Landing Field Fentress. Experienced US Landing Signal Officers (LSOs) were assessing the performance & safety levels of the French Navy aviators before allowing them to trap onboard the carrier. On 19 July 2008, the first Rafale carrier landing was recorded onboard USS Roosevelt. The first 2 days onboard the US vessel were dedicated to Carrier Qualifications & every pilot had to log 10 ‘traps’, 6 in daytime & 4 at night, in order to become fully qualified again....”

http://www.dassault-aviation.com/fileadmin/user_upload/redacteur/Defence/Rafale/foxThree_n12.pdf

FCLP in France: Lann-Bihoué (56). Rafales et Hawkeyes en entraînement d'appontage

[ Invalid YouTube link ]

« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 11:17:56 pm by SpazSinbad »
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