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Author Topic: Traffic landing and departing on the same runway opposite directions  (Read 6056 times)
infus1on
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« on: October 11, 2011, 12:48:30 AM »

I have been enjoying KLAX immensely but I am stuck on a certain problem. I have traffic taking off and landing on the opposite  ends of the runway. i.e Traffic departing rwy 24L Traffic landing rwy 6L. Is there anyway to fix this? Thanks in advance.
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Mike

FSDreamteam: KLAX Los Angeles * KDFW Dallas Fort Worth * KLAS McCarran * KJFK New York * KORD O'Hare * PHNL Honolulu * Hawaiian Airports Vol. 1 & 2 * LSZG Zurich CYVR Vancouver
windshear
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« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2011, 09:00:58 PM »

Does this happen when you arrive at the airport flying from another airport and using some sort of external weather generator?(I.E. ASE etc.)

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Boaz Fraizer
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infus1on
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« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2011, 04:40:31 AM »

Yes I use ASE and it happens with both flights originating out of LAX and Flights to LAX.
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Mike

FSDreamteam: KLAX Los Angeles * KDFW Dallas Fort Worth * KLAS McCarran * KJFK New York * KORD O'Hare * PHNL Honolulu * Hawaiian Airports Vol. 1 & 2 * LSZG Zurich CYVR Vancouver
virtuali
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« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2011, 11:00:06 AM »

It's possible the wind changed direction suddendly, so you have planes landing in one direction (before the wind changed) mixed with planes approaching in the other one.
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Bruce Hamilton
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« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2011, 01:10:32 PM »

Wouldn't ATC automatically vector them around to the other runway?
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virtuali
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« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2011, 02:16:37 PM »

Yes, but not if there's someone that already landed and others that are already approaching from the other side.
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windshear
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« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2011, 05:13:15 PM »

It's ASE for sure!
It's not the AFCAD, I tested that one extensively! Try a flight with the default weather generator as a comparative test.
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Boaz Fraizer
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« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2011, 07:49:49 PM »

I have been enjoying KLAX immensely but I am stuck on a certain problem. I have traffic taking off and landing on the opposite  ends of the runway. i.e Traffic departing rwy 24L Traffic landing rwy 6L. Is there anyway to fix this? Thanks in advance.

Im having the same problem Sad
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infus1on
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« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2011, 07:34:16 AM »

It's ASE for sure!
It's not the AFCAD, I tested that one extensively! Try a flight with the default weather generator as a comparative test.

Thanks four your help guys! I am not so sure that it is strictly related to ASE. If it were I would see this behavior at all FSX airports. This problem is isolated to LAX.
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Mike

FSDreamteam: KLAX Los Angeles * KDFW Dallas Fort Worth * KLAS McCarran * KJFK New York * KORD O'Hare * PHNL Honolulu * Hawaiian Airports Vol. 1 & 2 * LSZG Zurich CYVR Vancouver
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« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2011, 10:28:49 AM »

Thanks four your help guys! I am not so sure that it is strictly related to ASE. If it were I would see this behavior at all FSX airports. This problem is isolated to LAX.

The first obvious test would be trying with ASE off. The KLAX AFCAD can't be simpler: all the runways are open both for takeoff and landing so, the runway selection is made by FSX according to its standard scoring methods, where wind has quite a bit of effect, especially if it's significant.

Runways at KLAX are all parallel, long and with enough space between them and with all the ILS aligned to the runway, it's not an airport that would require AFCAD tricks to work so, if anything strange is happening with landings, it should be due to weather.
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data63
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« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2011, 08:26:20 PM »

I suppose the problem is the way FSX is handling AI traffic.

the takeoff/landing runway is choosen quite early an if the wind changes FSX doesn't change it's choice :-(
If there's an unstable wind around 90 degrees to the Runway directions - the approach/takeoff runway can change frequently leading to that situation.

as LAX tries to route traffic mainly in a westernly direction it maybe worth a try to close all "eastern" runways for takeoff/landing (I know that this may not prevent aircraft to takeoff/land in eastern directionsm but it may change the "scoring" of the runway selection a bit to prevent that "opposite" operations)

Happy Landings

Juergen
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infus1on
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« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2011, 06:34:24 AM »

I suppose the problem is the way FSX is handling AI traffic.

the takeoff/landing runway is choosen quite early an if the wind changes FSX doesn't change it's choice :-(
If there's an unstable wind around 90 degrees to the Runway directions - the approach/takeoff runway can change frequently leading to that situation.

as LAX tries to route traffic mainly in a westernly direction it maybe worth a try to close all "eastern" runways for takeoff/landing (I know that this may not prevent aircraft to takeoff/land in eastern directionsm but it may change the "scoring" of the runway selection a bit to prevent that "opposite" operations)

Happy Landings

Juergen

I noticed that I have mistakenly posted this to the wrong forums. My apologies. Thanks to everyone who has had input. After a couple of days testing and I have noticed that this problem is not related to ASE. It is related to the FSX ATC engine. I had been using the default ATC the last couple of weeks in order to make my flights simple. I loaded RC4 and the the aircraft were directed to the appropriate runways. As you can see by the screen shot I have uploaded the Lufthansa 747 has just landed on 6L Along with a China airlines that had landed 6L and exited the high speed. On 24L I have a Southwest 737 lining up while another Southwest 737 is initiating a go-around on 24 R due to the Lufthansa. I ams tumped as to why the FSX ATC is behaving this way at KLAX.



* fsscr401.3.jpg (369.06 KB, 1024x576 - viewed 492 times.)
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Mike

FSDreamteam: KLAX Los Angeles * KDFW Dallas Fort Worth * KLAS McCarran * KJFK New York * KORD O'Hare * PHNL Honolulu * Hawaiian Airports Vol. 1 & 2 * LSZG Zurich CYVR Vancouver
caffman263
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« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2011, 02:29:14 PM »

FSX has the mistaken belief that landing and departing Eastbound is standard at LAX, quite the opposite is true. LAX departs 24L and 25R, and lands 24R and 25L normally. When the wind is consistently out of the east at greater than 10 knots, they switch to landing 6L/7R, departing 6R/7L. From 0000-0700 local time (if the weather is above certain minimums) they depart 25R and land 6R, commonly called "Suicide Ops"

Shameless plug: VATSIM ZLA is having a Suicide Ops event on October 30th from 2100-0100Z  Grin

Steve Caffey
vZLA Events Coordinator
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infus1on
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« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2011, 09:30:42 PM »

Well, I am unhappy to report that I am back to square one with this problem. It seems that my observation regarding RC4 fixed the issue is wrong. It seems that I am back to square one with this problem. Regardless of weather FSX or RC4 is handling the traffic the problem persists.
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Mike

FSDreamteam: KLAX Los Angeles * KDFW Dallas Fort Worth * KLAS McCarran * KJFK New York * KORD O'Hare * PHNL Honolulu * Hawaiian Airports Vol. 1 & 2 * LSZG Zurich CYVR Vancouver
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