Author Topic: NEW AFCAD PACKAGE FOR KORD  (Read 180790 times)

kdfw

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 44
Re: NEW AFCAD PACKAGE FOR KORD
« Reply #105 on: March 19, 2008, 02:17:53 am »
Hi All,

Long thread.

Although I appreciate fidelity, please provide a 'golden' AFCAD file for non-VATSIM/hardcore users.  I think one file will be plenty for many users of KORD.

Or if this is not possible, can someone point out which AFCAD has all the known fixed in it and provides decent TO/LDG for AIs?  I can always open/close runways later w/ AFCAD if something doesn't look right.  Key careabout is NAVAIDs have to work with PMDG/LDS type planes.

Thanks,
Pat

harpsi

  • Beta tester
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 439
Re: NEW AFCAD PACKAGE FOR KORD
« Reply #106 on: March 19, 2008, 02:30:13 am »
Hi All,

Long thread.

Although I appreciate fidelity, please provide a 'golden' AFCAD file for non-VATSIM/hardcore users.  I think one file will be plenty for many users of KORD.

Or if this is not possible, can someone point out which AFCAD has all the known fixed in it and provides decent TO/LDG for AIs?  I can always open/close runways later w/ AFCAD if something doesn't look right.  Key careabout is NAVAIDs have to work with PMDG/LDS type planes.

Thanks,
Pat

Well, like it has been said, decent is one thing, real is another thing. If you want decent you have some of them. If you want real that´s another story but like you said you can also close and open the runways you want. :) Plan X or Y would be the ideal ones.

harpsi

harpsi

  • Beta tester
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 439
Re: NEW AFCAD PACKAGE FOR KORD
« Reply #107 on: March 19, 2008, 02:37:05 am »
Quote
The ILS names were not like that from in the beginning. You even acknowledged that in response to this post of mine. So yes, I changed them for this Afcad specifically.

I posted a picture which showed that all ILS were correct.

Quote
Yes. And I say, make sure all of them match the recommended radius spec (the goal of which is to provide a much needed standard). Again, what's your point?

But then the only way is to simple change radius in the aircraft editor. That´s what I did for myself and everyone should do it for himself.

Quote
If I say, use the X variation for regional carriers, then that is my right. I can't say? Yes I can, and I have.

But you can´t say that´s the best way to do it, but just one way to do it. That´s why I coded them in two ways. If you use my afcad with your specifications it will work because you have coded your aircrafts in one way and the afcad matches this. The opposite is not true because for me MESA is ASH and not UALX, like Austrian Arrows is TYR, so these mesa aircrafts will be parked anywhere. And of course you can´t say that to code these aircrafts with UALX is more correct than to code them ASH.

Quote
Yes you do. If you want AI to continue to use the changed runways for landings in IFR conditions. The ILS will still work for the user, but listen to ATIS without the extra file with visibility less than 3NM. You won't hear ATIS say, ILS 10 or ILS 28, because FS knows no approach code for those runways. Ergo, it will not clear AI to use those approaches, which makes the runways useless if conditions are bad. Surely you have heard of Jim Vile and his files in the Avsim Library. Download a couple and read what he says...

I know the files from Jim Vile… But what I know as well, is that on my FS runways 10/28 and 09R/27L are being used all the time by AI.

Quote
I think I know a little more about all this than you do.

Well, no comments.  ;D

Quote
I never said my Afcad was perfect, quite on the contrary in my readme... And for your information, there are COA coded gates of ample size at the other side of the same concourse... Too many of them, I know, sue me.

By the way, why 19? That's the radius of the E170 used by various regional carriers (such as Shuttle America in the case of United). Lately I've been using 19m as radius for most "regional gates". To make sure those aircraft park there.

Well, what I see here after trying it, is 4 empty gates when we need a lot of gates everywhere because there aren´t enough for all airlines. If you go to schedules there are only 737s going there and these gates have COAX and JZA. But you said that they work for UAL and not for COA… so something is missing then. Maybe you should add that code UALX as well for this 5 gates.

Quote
I had hoped the C9 arrogance and general attitude would be ancient history.

From who? Me? Well, would you ever do an Amsterdam afcad, just one only and which can work like real life exactly? I already have the answer: No, because it is not possible with one afcad. The is no arrogance until you right in your readme: "And as I understand it, people want a good Afcad now.", which is the same to say in non-polite words: until now there was no good afcad. After a little diversion from mr. harpsi with the afcads, let´s do finally something good. Fortunately that you corrected yourself some lines after, so contradictions are not coming from this side :P

But let´s end this discussion. I would point out more mistakes because I was just ginving three or four examples of them, and for sure that you can try to find more things on my files as well. I just said to users: choose whatever you want for all purposes. I didn´t say: choose my files. But it is difficult to hear some things after some days and nights just standing here, working on the afcads, day after day, answering every post more or less 5 or 10 minutes after each user has posted and so on. It seems like it was work for nothing.

harpsi
« Last Edit: March 19, 2008, 03:11:59 am by harpsi »

harpsi

  • Beta tester
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 439
Re: NEW AFCAD PACKAGE FOR KORD
« Reply #108 on: March 19, 2008, 02:44:34 am »
Hi

For all you I just modified the initial afcad package which now consists in nine files: seven files ended in _s with shortened runways, for people who asked more different plans for KORD and the other two files, X and W for people who care less about runways and realism. COMM frequencies are now corrected. The only thing which is probably not yet perfect and probably needs later correction, is the missing ILSs in the runway boxes, even when they are shown on the general board.

Have fun.

harpsi
« Last Edit: March 19, 2008, 02:47:02 am by harpsi »

Mike...

  • Guest
Re: NEW AFCAD PACKAGE FOR KORD
« Reply #109 on: March 19, 2008, 03:13:04 am »
I think we both suffer from a severe case of last worditis. But there are some untrue statements I just can't let pass.

Quote
I posted a picture which showed that all ILS were correct.

Yes and? I can show you a picture as well. Does that mean that the ILS names in the Afcad that came with the scenery were correct? No. And in fact, they were not.

Quote
But then the only way is to simple change radius in the aircraft editor. That´s what I did for myself and everyone should do it for himself.

I totally agree. :o

Quote
I know the files from Jim Vile… But what I know as well, is that on my FS runways 10/28 and 09R/27L are being used all the time by AI.

Turn down the visibility to say 1NM. Then change the time ahead say five minutes so that the sim and more specifically the ATC and AI can't adapt to the visibility change. You will see that AI will no longer be cleared to land on 10 or 28. Because no approach code exists for those runways. Only visual approaches, but those don't work under poor conditions. I think that 9R/27L may work, because approach code does exist for "a" 9R/27L, just not the right one. How that works out in the sim, I do not know.

Quote
But you said that they work for UAL and not for COA…

No, I didn't. Try and actually read and understand what I said.

Quote
Well, would you ever do an Amsterdam afcad, just one only and which can work like real life exactly? I already have the answer: No, because it is not possible with one afcad.

Again, you must differentiate between what you think I say and what I actually say. I agree with you, the answer is no. But then again, I never said anything to the contrary. So this is just one more moot point brought into an already bloated discussion.

But now that you mention the Amsterdam scenery, two files, 765 downloads, zero complaints... Far from perfect, I'm sure. :P

Mike...

  • Guest
Re: NEW AFCAD PACKAGE FOR KORD
« Reply #110 on: March 19, 2008, 03:19:34 am »
Quote
The only thing which is probably not yet perfect and probably needs later correction, is the missing ILSs in the runway boxes, even when they are shown on the general board.

I mentioned in the other thread I think the method to properly flip runways, to avoid precisely this kind of issue. You said you did just that, but then how did this issue come about, I wonder... Anyhoo, simply delete and re-insert the runways and the boxes should be filled, you may have to screen capture some settings for later reference. AFX lets you edit those fields. So if you want, I can fix it all for you and just that, I would leave the rest of your masterpiece alone. :P

harpsi

  • Beta tester
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 439
Re: NEW AFCAD PACKAGE FOR KORD
« Reply #111 on: March 19, 2008, 03:32:10 am »
Quote
Does that mean that the ILS names in the Afcad that came with the scenery were correct? No. And in fact, they were not.

You forgot one thing: the first afcad was not done by me. I come along with my work much time after, and when I am still in the middle of my work the scenery is suddenly released.

Quote
Turn down the visibility to say 1NM. Then change the time ahead say five minutes so that the sim and more specifically the ATC and AI can't adapt to the visibility change. You will see that AI will no longer be cleared to land on 10 or 28. Because no approach code exists for those runways. Only visual approaches, but those don't work under poor conditions. I think that 9R/27L may work, because approach code does exist for "a" 9R/27L, just not the right one. How that works out in the sim, I do not know.

How that works out in the sim, you don´t know, but how it works on my sim I already know, and what I see is 10/28 in use under very very poor conditions (the old 09R/27L to avoid misunderstandings from me). But I will try again with your exactly conditions to see what are the results.

Quote
But now that you mention the Amsterdam scenery, two files, 765 downloads, zero complaints... Far from perfect, I'm sure.


Far from perfect but it doesn´t mean realistic, but OK, it is just a kind of approach: you prefer “simulism”, I prefer realism. You have all tastes like I said and you have persons who don´t mind to see a lot of landings on 09 or even 36 L at EHAM just for example. That´s possible, but it happens never in real life so I would try to avoid it. I have flown to EHAM during for years, many times in the cockpit the whole flight, and I was leaving closed to EHAM during that time, so I know traffic there quite well. For you this is maybe not a confusion, for many users as well, for me it is and for many other users as well. I am sure that I have a lot of downloads as well, since the my afcad package came inside with the scenery. But let´s say that for example I posted my new files some minutes ago and in 5 minutes there were 5 downloads. Well, 4 days and 4 nights were not completely lost, excluding the initial work, just the split in 4 different files. ;)

Quote
I mentioned in the other thread I think the method to properly flip runways, to avoid precisely this kind of issue. You said you did just that, but then how did this issue come about, I wonder... Anyhoo, simply delete and re-insert the runways and the boxes should be filled, you may have to screen capture some settings for later reference. AFX lets you edit those fields. So if you want, I can fix it all for you and just that, I would leave the rest of your masterpiece alone.

I know it can be done, but after 4 days and 4 nights I need some time to rest as well. To look for landings and take offs and counting them one by one to distribute the traffic to all runways after shortening some of them with less 500 after 500 feet (30 or 45 minutes to each file), to see gates and measuring wings from AI one by one to avoid colisions, to make all those nodes on taxiway intersections with aircrafts following all the yellow lines on the ground, which means looking to a monitor 16 hours a day with no interruption, needs some hours of stop. I know I can delete the runways and so on, but I need to redo the ILSs and bla bla. I just need one or two days more, but I didn´t want users to wait more time, since afcad is a constant evolution and there will be always issues to correct. And by the way, I use afcad 2.21. It solves me all problems.

harpsi
« Last Edit: March 19, 2008, 03:37:58 am by harpsi »

Mike...

  • Guest
Re: NEW AFCAD PACKAGE FOR KORD
« Reply #112 on: March 19, 2008, 03:42:51 am »
Quote
You forgot one thing

I did not forget it, it's not relevant. ;)

Quote
but it happens never in real life so I would try to avoid it.

And you will see no such behavior in my EHAM files, unless you use the wrong one for the wrong wind conditions. By the way, I was born and raised in the Netherlands, Schiphol is my home airport. I've taken several flights there. Taxiing to and from 36L/18R takes a while. ;)
« Last Edit: March 19, 2008, 03:45:34 am by Mike... »

harpsi

  • Beta tester
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 439
Re: NEW AFCAD PACKAGE FOR KORD
« Reply #113 on: March 19, 2008, 03:56:22 am »
Quote
unless you use the wrong one for the wrong wind conditions

So, like I said before in one of my previous posts, if you take the same file for the wrong wind conditions... let´s think what happens.  ::) I think I already know the answer for this one :P Which means that with only one afcad it is impossible to solve it. KORD is the same, EBBR the same but much easier, LFPO another difficult one even with 3 runways in use, LEBL the same because 20 is for TO and 02 for landing, LEMD let´s see what happens but it is much easier, LPPT my home airport even with two runways is not easy, because 17 is only used for TO and 35 for landing, rarely for TO. So, here are some examples which only one afcad, I mean real life operations afcad and not for simulation purposes, can not simulate. For simulation I can leave both ends opened but then it takes some minutes and it is very easy to do an afcad like that.

About KORD I will do even another thing in some days. I will try to simulate plan R beginning on one runway 04/22 and to complete the star until I reach the other runway 04/22 which will be renamed 22/04. I will have two opposite runways working. 04 L for take off and in the opposite way, 22 L for take off as well. Really strange but it is described as well with winds calm and LAHSO configuration  :o

harpsi
« Last Edit: March 19, 2008, 04:05:14 am by harpsi »

Mike...

  • Guest
Re: NEW AFCAD PACKAGE FOR KORD
« Reply #114 on: March 19, 2008, 04:00:00 am »
Yeah, we kinda already established that. ;D Didn't we? ??? :P

Quote
How that works out in the sim, you don´t know, but how it works on my sim I already know, and what I see is 10/28 in use under very very poor conditions (the old 09R/27L to avoid misunderstandings from me). But I will try again with your exactly conditions to see what are the results.

I checked and even in good conditions you can hear ATIS say visual runway 28, without an approach file. That's the telltale sign that something's wrong. Visual in good conditions, means no go in bad. The new 9R/27L does continue to work, that is because "its" approaches already exist, as I said.

harpsi

  • Beta tester
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 439
Re: NEW AFCAD PACKAGE FOR KORD
« Reply #115 on: March 19, 2008, 04:08:12 am »
Yeah, we kinda already established that. ;D Didn't we? ??? :P

Quote
How that works out in the sim, you don´t know, but how it works on my sim I already know, and what I see is 10/28 in use under very very poor conditions (the old 09R/27L to avoid misunderstandings from me). But I will try again with your exactly conditions to see what are the results.

I checked and even in good conditions you can hear ATIS say visual runway 28, without an approach file. That's the telltale sign that something's wrong. Visual in good conditions, means no go in bad. The new 9R/27L does continue to work, that is because "its" approaches already exist, as I said.

I don´t use FS ATC, sorry. I hate it. What I know is that I am placed on the ground and I am seeing all the aircrafts descending like a beautiful indian queue for all runways in use for landing, when there is a lot of traffic of course.  ;D

harpsi

Mike Phyrio

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: NEW AFCAD PACKAGE FOR KORD
« Reply #116 on: March 19, 2008, 04:41:19 am »
Harpsi KORD?
Nah, it's too easy.

Dillon

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 156
Re: NEW AFCAD PACKAGE FOR KORD
« Reply #117 on: March 19, 2008, 05:30:18 am »
Harpsi, getting back on topic I decided to go back to your latest 'Plan' W afcad only to find once again American Airlines parking everywhere but at their terminal.  You fixed the issue where they were parking at the FedEx ramp closest to runway 10 but there's still a huge problem with them parking everywhere but the AA terminal (I'm talking they are parking at the International terminal, United Terminal, and east cargo area).  There must be a serious issue with American Airlines and Afcad in FS9.  :( 

AaronMyers

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 145
Re: NEW AFCAD PACKAGE FOR KORD
« Reply #118 on: March 19, 2008, 06:04:47 am »
Hi All,

Long thread.

Although I appreciate fidelity, please provide a 'golden' AFCAD file for non-VATSIM/hardcore users.  I think one file will be plenty for many users of KORD.
Agreed entirely. I doubt many of us will be swapping AFCAD's every time we look to fly in or out of KORD, but a single, accurate rendition of the more common flight operations would be just fine. Given this thread is hard to keep up with, will there be some sort of pinned announcement when that point has been reached? It gets tough searching through "upteen" pages to find the most recent file.

Thanks for the continued work.

rooster

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: NEW AFCAD PACKAGE FOR KORD
« Reply #119 on: March 19, 2008, 08:01:37 am »
Hi Harpsi

I have been following this thread with interest. I only have one observation at this time and that is after downloading the standard "W" afcad with full length departures from 32L amongst others, the aircraft are in fact still departing from T10. It's just me but I would like to see my AI going from full length. Any thoughts or help please. I would also like to offer my sincere thanks for a superb looking KORD and all your hard work resolving issues. You must have the patience of a saint dealing with us lot!

best regards

rooster