Author Topic: Double Gates and Bleeding Textures  (Read 64123 times)

virtuali

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Re: Double Gates and Bleeding Textures
« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2008, 02:07:29 am »
JETWAYS WORK!!! but sadly tire marks, and apron markings bleed. Again, freshly installed FSX with SP1, SP2, and nothing but O'hare installed, and it still bleeds.

That's really strange. As I've said, we can't see it, and right now you are the only 2 users reporting it.

It might be something that appear only with a specific setting, then. What is your current mesh setting ?

Another issue why such issue might appear, can be related to z-buffer problems. More specifically, too few bits and/or not enough precision for z-buffer calculations, sometimes due to a video driver bug or settings. Have you ever used a video card tweaker ? Are you running in 32 bit color mode ?

axiom13

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Re: Double Gates and Bleeding Textures
« Reply #31 on: March 17, 2008, 02:20:01 am »
What do you suggest I change?

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virtuali

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Re: Double Gates and Bleeding Textures
« Reply #32 on: March 17, 2008, 02:23:16 am »
Try starting with Mesh resolution set at 38 or 19 meters.

Texture resolution should be set at 30 cm if you want to enjoy the full resolution the scenery was designed with. This might not solve your issue, but it will look surely better.

On the video card, you might want to look if there's something related to z-buffer. Sometimes those settings can be only accessed by a tweaker. But start with FSX settings first.

axiom13

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Re: Double Gates and Bleeding Textures
« Reply #33 on: March 17, 2008, 03:58:38 am »
Can you recommend a tweaker that can get me to z-buffering? Thanks

axiom

bkircher

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Re: Double Gates and Bleeding Textures
« Reply #34 on: March 17, 2008, 04:48:20 am »
yes 32 bit, settings medium high: level of detail: large, mesh 65, mesh resoultion 76, texture resolution 1m, scenery complexity extremely complex, autogen none, advanced animations on special effects max, ground shadows off

pmpilot

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Re: Double Gates and Bleeding Textures
« Reply #35 on: March 17, 2008, 07:35:01 am »
Hi  :)

Hello FSDreamTeam  :D

Might that be possible :?

Can you do some ( from all off them ) Parking Ports with the FSX Pushback and Bagage Vehikle so you have a use off them too ??
That would be great 

regards
Mario Görs   ;)

pmpilot

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Re: Double Gates and Bleeding Textures
« Reply #36 on: March 17, 2008, 09:27:59 am »
Hello all  ;)

I can confirm with the newly downloaded Afcad file
the Double Gates Prob is gone on my PC  :-*

Thanks a lot for that fast Support on that one ........... 8)

regards
Mario Görs  ;)

tf51d

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Re: Double Gates and Bleeding Textures
« Reply #37 on: March 17, 2008, 10:25:05 am »
That's really strange. As I've said, we can't see it, and right now you are the only 2 users reporting it.

Make that 3, it's with the trial, I was already set to purchase this product when I saw this problem. (Texture Bleed) At first I thought it may be caused by 3rd Party Mesh, that was a problem with Fly Tampa's KSEA for FS2004 which had a similar problem on systems with FSG Mesh installed (Like mine). Since the others though have reported this still happens after a fresh install, that's now unlikely the problem. I'm running Windows XP FSX SP1 on an E6850 3.0Ghz 2GB 1066Mhz PC2-8500 Mem and a Geforce 8800GT. Also I'm noticing stuttering similar to what I see in Orlando, but it seems worse at Ohare. I have to believe it has something to do with your copy protection and add-on manager, as I don't get it anywhere else in the FSX world, including other 3rd Party sceneries. Only the ones using this addon manager!
« Last Edit: March 17, 2008, 10:29:49 am by tf51d »

pmpilot

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Re: Double Gates and Bleeding Textures
« Reply #38 on: March 17, 2008, 10:39:53 am »
Hello again  :)

> Also I'm noticing stuttering similar to what I see in Orlando, but it seems worse at Ohare.

That happens to me also.......

Tought it was something else - but as you say that ,looks like it has to do with the scenery / Add on Manager
That are short hard stutters coming up after a minute or so and keep on doeing as you around the scenery - so can confirm that.

cheers
Mario  ;)

virtuali

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Re: Double Gates and Bleeding Textures
« Reply #39 on: March 17, 2008, 01:22:00 pm »
We are trying to identify the cause of the problem that is affecting you 3-4 people (out of several hundreds that already bought it ), and we WILL get to the source of the problem, just like the double jetways issue.

But please, do not start any more nonsense about the "protection" might have caused this. It doesn't make any sense.

First, the Addon Manager is not there to handle just the protection but, more important, if we didn't had it, you would had to say bye-bye to THIS level of detail with THIS level of quality.

A scenery like this and as big as this, it's NOT doable without the Addon Manager, certainly not with FSX SP2, due to the lack of LOD for scenery objects (a "bug" that appeared in FSX SP2), the we put back with the Addon Manager, together with a lot of other distance-based optimizations that developers used in FS9 and that can't be used in FSX anymore, but we have by the means of the Addon Manager.

And, just to prove the case more clearly: your texture bleeding is happening on *ground* and, incidentally, ground textures are the ONLY thing in the scenery that is NOT handled by the Addon Manager! The ground is made using a combination of native FSX photoreal terrain and FS9-styled detail layers. The Addon Manager doesn't know, doesn't care, doesn't interfere with any of that.

So please, if you want your problem searched and solved, like the double jetways problem we JUST fixed (that one was instead affecting everyone), the discussion about the Addon Manager ends here.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2008, 01:24:24 pm by virtuali »

tf51d

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Re: Double Gates and Bleeding Textures
« Reply #40 on: March 17, 2008, 02:05:11 pm »
I'm sorry, I shouldn't have mixed the 2 issues, I wasn't referring to the Addon Manager causing the texture problem, but I do suspect it to be the cause of the stuttering. I've had this in the Orlando scenery, the trials in other cloud9 sceneries, which I didn't buy because of it. I thought I'd give this one a try, and saw the same thing! The one thing these sceneries all have in common is the addon manager. I do like the quality of Cloud9, and your FSDT scenery, but this stuttering problem is real annoying. I could actually live with the micro stutters on the tarmac, it's on approach where they are more severe (especially after a long flight) that is the real problem. Other High Quality 3rd Party airport scenery like UK2000 does not exhibit this behavior.

virtuali

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Re: Double Gates and Bleeding Textures
« Reply #41 on: March 17, 2008, 02:29:56 pm »
The Addon Manager can't cause any stuttering due to texture loading. It doesn't know about texture handling at all. This is done entirely by FSX engine.

Starting with the fact that not everyone see it, stuttering might be caused by a lot of things.

First, other "high quality" scenery might not use FSX texturing at all, but it can simply be FS9 visuals used in FSX. It's quite obvious that, a simple diffuse texture not only takes much less space in memory than a texture with diffuse+specular+bump, but also its shader can be slower to execute or, better yet, triggering a state change that *might* cause stutters, if the graphic settings are put too high (the system, being already overloaded, can't process drawing calls fast enough). A scenery with a flat FS9-looks, that is drawing everything with the same shader, will not have this problem. But then, what's the point of using FSX...

Other problems might cause stuttering, is the added load of AI airplanes, especially legacy FS9 models. This, when used in *combination* with a scenery that instead uses fully compliant FSX 3D objects (like we do) forces FSX to keep switching between its two different rendering paths, the FS9 and the FSX one. If one does everything FS9 style, the problem might be lessened. Of course, only until a fully FSX compliant AI package comes out...

Another reason for stuttering might be exhaustion of the Video RAM. This can happen on cards with less than 512MB, especially when used in combination with AI packages with lots of *different* liveries. The constant switching between AI models textures COMBINED with the airport scenery textures might cause the video card to struggle, the less VRAM the more the struggle. Solution here is the usual: LOWER your settings, the most important ones are the Global Max Texture size (decreasing it one notch will lower memory requirements 4 TIMES! ) and the Scenery Size, if it's put to "Large" you really need a lot of VRAM to handle the scenery.

Other reasons for stuttering might also be external ones, not related to FSX. For example, a big issue is Vista file indexing and automatic defrag. That is the N.1 source of problems with anything related to disk loading. If you constantly see your hdd light flashing while you are flying, most of the times it doesn't have anything to do with FSX, but instead is the Vista file indexer and the automatic defrag that is running on its own. I always shut down these services, it really makes a lot of difference in smoothness.

Of course, all this doesn't have anything to do with the Addon Manager. The fact you are seeing with our sceneries more than with other, it's only because we use very high detail textures, with many of the advanced FSX properties.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2008, 02:31:27 pm by virtuali »

tf51d

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Re: Double Gates and Bleeding Textures
« Reply #42 on: March 17, 2008, 03:39:40 pm »
Well lets just say, whatever the cause of the stuttering it only happens with Cloud9, and now FSDT scenery (At least on my system) and as such is a show stopper for me from buying any further scenery. I do have Orlando, and I do think the quality is top notch, but the stuttering on approach ruins what otherwise is a very smooth flight. Less so on departures, which is what I now use this scenery most for. As for my system, it's a Dell XPS 720 E6850 3.0Ghz 2GB 1066Mhz PC2-8500 Memory, and a Geforce 8800GT 512MB card. I do keep it well tuned, and defragmented using Ultimate Defrag keeping the FSX folder together at the outside of the Disk. I do use WOAI AI Traffic at 100% and get frame rates in Orlando about 25 with non complex aircraft, and about 18-20 with LDS-767! Other than the stuttering, I can't complain about the performance. I also had this problem on my previous system (which got fried in a lightning storm) which was a Gateway FX530XG E6700 2.67Ghz, 2GB Memory, and Dual ATI X1950XTX Crossfire cards, and also got high frame rates in FSX.

virtuali

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Re: Double Gates and Bleeding Textures
« Reply #43 on: March 17, 2008, 03:56:53 pm »
Frame rate and stuttering are entirely different matter. In fact, it's very possible that, the higher demands put on the system to generate more fps, eats more bandwidth to handle the background tasks of handling objects and textures, that might result in stuttering. One might get better results with a little bit *less* fps, and get less stuttering.

The parameters you might want to play with are:

TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT, setting it too high can cause stutters.
PoolSize, default is 1000000, increasing to 5000000 might help

The Addon Manager has an easy way to tweak these values without having to work on FSX.CFG directly.

bkircher

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Re: Double Gates and Bleeding Textures
« Reply #44 on: March 17, 2008, 05:47:38 pm »
I do not have a shuddering problem or a 3rd party mesh installed. But do u think it would be easiest to create a mesh just for the airport? Would really like to get this working. The tire markings seem to be the thing that is bleeding most.