Hawaiian Airports Volume 2 AI Fatal Error

[Adam Edison]

I have Honolulu and Hawaiian Airports Volume 1 working perfect with the FSX default AI . I also have 100's of other payware airports that all work perfect with the FSX default AI .

Now I installed Hawaiian Airports Volume 2. Three out of five times that I load PHOG or PHKO I get a Fatal Error at 90% or they work fine. If I turn off the default AI (using FTX Central) the problem goes away 100%. I do not use any Traffic programs, I only use FSX default AI and I used a program called "AI Traffic Check" which told me all my paths and files for my FSX default AI aircraft are OK . I don't think there is anything wrong with my default AI, I think Hawaiian Airports Volume 2 has a problem running with AI aircraft ! Maybe because of Windows 7 64-bit ?

Does anyone else have this problem and is there a fix ? Or what Traffic Tool can I use to remove default scheduled flights from PHOG and PHKO?

[virtuali]

You were already being replied to by email about this so, there's obviously no need to repeat the same question on the forum.

As I've already replied you on email, the problem is NOT caused by Hawaii 2, first because a crash at 90% it's related to AI AND, because nobody else reported this specific problem, which is FSX working FINE without AI and FSX crashing ONLY if AI are enabled.

In fact, you clearly realized this, when you wrote this on your last email:

Hi, You are right, I turned off the default AI Traffic (ORBX/FTX has a check box to uncheck for default AI Traffic in there FTX Central Program) and the problem went away.

This clearly indicates the problem it's either in one AI model that appears only at the Hawaii airports, which is why you can mislead into thinking they are the problem, when they aren't OR the program you use to turn it off/on is doing something strange.

I do not use any Traffic programs,

You ARE using something that handles traffic, otherwise how you would be saying you use FTX Central to remove them ?

I used a program called "AI Traffic Check" which told me all my paths and files for my FSX default AI aircraft are OK

That doesn't mean anything: that program will only look for missing or wrongly named files, but the only effect would be they wouldn't show, if the files are different problem, like corrupted models, textures or other problems in the schedule, that program will not tell you.

So, I repeat and confirm, there are no problems whatsoever with Hawaii 2 and traffic. If there were, we would be hundreds of reports by now, since I don't think many use FSX without AI, and of course we tested, and we always test using both default AI AND UT2, and no problems in either case.

[Adam Edison]

OK, I understand that it has something to do with the default AI, but I just installed FSX on another computer (just to get the Airplanes folder) and replaced all my Airplanes in the Airplanes folder and still have the same Fatal Error. I then unchecked Hawaiian Airports Volume 2 in the Scenery Library and went to PHOG with no errors .

However, I only posted on the Forum because you never replyed to my email asking which traffic tool I can use to remove scheduled flights from PHOG and PHKO. You wrote "The only solution is to use that option to remove the default AI traffic whenever you fly there OR use a traffic tool that will remove scheduled flights to PHOG or PHKO".

So, if you or anyone can just tell me which traffic tool I can use to do this, I will give it a try.

[virtuali]

OK, I understand that it has something to do with the default AI, but I just installed FSX on another computer (just to get the Airplanes folder) and replaced all my Airplanes in the Airplanes folder and still have the same Fatal Error

What do you mean with "replaced all my Airplanes in the Airplanes folder" ? Why you need to do that ? Can't you simply test on a FRESH, unmodified installation, without meddling manually with files ?

.I then unchecked Hawaiian Airports Volume 2 in the Scenery Library and went to PHOG with no errors

As I've explained you already by email, before you posted here, this doesn't mean anything: if you disable FSDT PHOG, the default AFCAD for PHOG will take over, and since it has different parking assignments, sizes and codes, it will call for different AI so, you will be mislead into thinking the problem was the scenery, because it went away by disabling it, but it wasn't, the problem WAS the AI, but an AI model that only appears when using our AFCAD.

However, I only posted on the Forum because you never replyed to my email asking which traffic tool I can use to remove scheduled flights from PHOG and PHKO

I haven't replied YET on your last email, but that doesn't mean it would *never* replied to you. If you started a topic by email, stick to email, if you were impatient getting an email answer, the correct way of doing this is to send another email, not posting the same question on the forum, because it simply double our support effort, because we now have to keep track two identical topics by the same person at the same time. So, next time, if you start by email, continue by email, if you want to use the forum, start the thread on the forum but NOT create two identical threads, one by email and one by forum.

In any case, without a traffic package, it might be difficult to remove traffic from a single airport, you'll probably have to use the FSX SDK and learn the default traffic compilers. Traffic tools, like UT2 for example, usually allows to do this quite easily with their own management tools.

However, removing traffic from those airports would be the wrong solution to the problem in any case, because you simply side-stepped the issue without solving it. The correct solution is finding why your AI are creating a problem, which specific model is, and why. As I've said, nobody has this specific problem, let alone with default AI (the addon AI are usually more likely to have issues)

[Adam Edison]

I'm sorry I emailed you first. Normally I use the forums because I like to get input from more then one person. Your forum is the only one I ever had to wait for being approved. And you wrote that I was meddling manually with files! I have been building computers for a living for 28 years and I have been installing addons into Flight Sim since FS3 with subLogic addons using dos commands . I spend so much time on Flight Sim that I have lost 3 wifes .

Today I spent the whole day visiting all my FSX addon Airports and no problems at all with AI and I seen every AI airplane with evey texture in FSX. Hawaiian Airports Volume 2 must be looking for an AI airplane that don't exist. Another thing is when I'm able to get into one of the Airports in Hawaiian Airports Volume 2, it gives me the fatal error exiting the airport .

You just seem to want to blame everything else but your airports. I'm sure more people maybe with similar hardware and FSX settings will be running into this problem because there's nothing wrong with the AI but most likely the way Hawaiian Airports Volume 2 handles them. A new afcad file will probably be the fix .

[virtuali]

I'm sorry I emailed you first. Normally I use the forums because I like to get input from more then one person. Your forum is the only one I ever had to wait for being approved

You need to be approved, because we take the burden of manually approving everyone (it would be FAR easier for us if it was automatic), to protect YOU against spammers, that register to the forum only to spam and harvest users emails.

And you wrote that I was meddling manually with files!

You wrote that you were meddling manually with files, here:

I just installed FSX on another computer (just to get the Airplanes folder) and replaced all my Airplanes in the Airplanes folder

If the intention was to test on a fresh FSX install, there was no point in manually replace all your Airplanes folder after installing because, if just one of them had a problem, you would end up duplicate the same issue without understanding what was.

Instead, if your install was really fresh, without installing anything else (other than the obvious FSX service packs), you would surely realize that Hawaii 2 didn't crash, because it doesn't.

Hawaiian Airports Volume 2 must be looking for an AI airplane that don't exist.

That's not how FSX works. The airport doesn't "look" for any specific AI, the file that decides which AI goes where, it's the traffic.bgl, which contains all the AI schedules.

The AFCAD that comes with Hawaii2, controles only *where* each AI will park at the airport. And, in some cases, you might see more AI with the Hawaii2 AFCAD, because with the default one there might not be enough parking spaces, so AI might disappear just after landing. That's the only difference the AFCAD makes.

Another thing is when I'm able to get into one of the Airports in Hawaiian Airports Volume 2, it gives me the fatal error exiting the airport .

Maybe it's just the same issue, if you could give a look at the Windows Event Viewer, it might be possible to have an hint were the crash happened.

You just seem to want to blame everything else but your airports. I'm sure more people maybe with similar hardware and FSX settings will be running into this problem because there's nothing wrong with the AI but most likely the way Hawaiian Airports Volume 2 handles them.

Fact there's nobody else having this specific problem, clearly proven otherwise. Since, according to your report, the airport crashes 3 times out of 5, we should have been flooded by similar reports by now, but instead you are the only one so, it's clearly not a problem of the scenery.

[Adam Edison]

Why isn't  the afcad file in the scenery folders of your scenery like all the other Publishers. When I uncheck your scenery in the Scenery Library objects like taxiway lights and signs still appear ?

And why do I get the fatal error exiting the Airports when they do work ?

[virtuali]

Why isn't  the afcad file in the scenery folders of your scenery like all the other Publishers.

Our AFCAD IS in the regular scenery folder, it's the file named AFX_PHOG.BGL

When I uncheck your scenery in the Scenery Library objects like taxiway lights and signs still appear ?

If you disable the scenery layer, the default AFCAD will kick in, and that one contains taxiway lights and signs too.

And why do I get the fatal error exiting the Airports when they do work ?

It's probably related to the same issue you are having with AI but, as I've said, a check on the crash details on the Windows Event Viewer might give more information on it.

[Adam Edison]

I made a list of all default FSX airplanes and all the textures for each one. I then went to alot of different airports to find all these airplanes. After some time I had found all FSX default airplanes (I had put a check mark next to each one on my list). All default FSX airplanes are there and working fine .

When Hawaiian Airports Volume 2 works for me, I noticed alot of default FSX AI traffic (alot of planes getting close together and then they get stuck) .

I don't think it's the airplanes but maybe a double entry into the Traffic.bgl for these airports ?

I was in the Event Viewer and can't seem to find anything related to FSX. Where in the Event Viewer should I look ?

One thing you said that I know is not true "If you disable the scenery layer, the default AFCAD will kick in, and that one contains taxiway lights and signs too." FSX does not have taxiway lights at any of the default FSX airports (I'm 101% sure about that)!!!!!!! So why do I see taxiway lights which are all located wrong when I turn off PHKO or PHOG in the Scenery Library? I don't have anything else installed in Hawaii, only your 3 scenery addons.

[virtuali]

So why do I see taxiway lights which are all located wrong when I turn off PHKO or PHOG in the Scenery Library? I don't have anything else installed in Hawaii, only your 3 scenery addons.

I can only repeat and confirm that, if you disable our airports in the Library, there's only things that could show up are either the default AFCAD for those airport OR another scenery you have installed which you long forgotten OR another AFCAD coming with an AI traffic package, but you say you don't use AI packs.

Of course, assuming you restarted FSX after disabling the sceneries in the library, otherwise the changes will not be effective entirely.

[Adam Edison]

Again, I was in the Event Viewer and can't seem to find anything related to FSX. Where in the Event Viewer should I look ?

[virtuali]

Again, I was in the Event Viewer and can't seem to find anything related to FSX. Where in the Event Viewer should I look ?

In the Application There should be a list of recent events, look in the "errors" section, something should be identifiable as caused by FSX, and the event detailed view should say which module crashed.

[Adam Edison]

First, I just want to Thank You for all the Help you have given !

The Event Viewer Said fsx.exe and g3d.dll from the Main FSX directory (I went into the Main FSX directory and noticed there is a g2d.dll with the same date and time as the g3d.dll).

[virtuali]

The Event Viewer Said fsx.exe and g3d.dll from the Main FSX directory (I went into the Main FSX directory and noticed there is a g2d.dll with the same date and time as the g3d.dll).

Unfortunately, g3d.dll crashes are the most common ones in FSX and can come from everything, since that .dll it's the general handler for all kind of 3d object, either an AI model or a piece of scenery, you can find reports of those crashes related to basically anything. However, since there's no crash when turning off AI, it seems to further prove the problem was caused by an AI airplane.