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Author Topic: vLSO Alpha Release  (Read 10302 times)
GOONIE
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« on: August 30, 2011, 03:43:31 PM »

Serge, hope your vacation was good. Just wanted to start a new thread to focus on vLSO alpha feedback for the F/A-18.

Here are my combined input from other posts:

Please ignore the ones you are planning to add to the beta or release versions.

vLSO

Lateral tolerances could be made much tighter. Also tighter glideslope tolerances and time in groove, could all affect grading. On Speed grading seems to be working well and is tough. Maybe have three levels of scoring, nugget, CAG, and CAG LSO  Cool.

The moderate LSO calls is not working, probably an alpha version thing. One idea I had was to have a trigger or button in FSX that acts as a cue for calling the ball. This would replace the vLSO saying call the ball, which is not NATOPS case 1 ops. Once you see the ball in fsx press some TBD button, call your side number, ac, fuel state, and the program would recognize the trigger (FSX button) and respond roger ball. If you didn't make the call inside .6 miles you would get a wave off, or we could have a Clara call button, but that is probably overkill. Anyways just thought to make the calls more realistic, see the ball and the make the call, not wait for the auto trigger "call the ball".

-Need more LSO grades, like OK, cut, and even an _OK_, which of course should be near impossible to get.

-Keep tracking lateral and vertical paths for the debrief windows even for a wave off. Would be nice to see wave off performance in debrief, currently the path stops tracking on w/o.

-Not a fan of the computer voice LSO calls, little fast, little slow, others. I will see if I can find some audio clips, or if you have some to replace the computer voice calls, I think it would be better

The others are ideas for later additions and cosmetics:
-option for  T-45c
-option for FCLP
-option for CASE 3 approach, with approach calls,
-color in LSO grade book for score, think you showed this in an earlier version (might be later for greenie board)
-zoomed out debrief, gods eye view, to see pattern performance (downwind)
-larger font for LSO grade and score, if it could also look hand written, which would be cool (I know I am pushing it)
-add carrier profiles pictures to the debrief windows, see my earlier post for pics

Mission
- add LSO, plat, air boss cams
- mission 2 does not work for me, I continue to get waved off but I am on and on.
- an FCLP mission or a T-45 mission would be cool
- is it possible to add any support ships, usually a ship is several miles behind the carrier on guard

After trapping XX amount of times with acceptable passes, the vLSO could trigger an LSO call which says you are qual'd. If you have too many wave offs or one wires, the LSO should tell you to shut down or RTB.

How is the "time in groove" calculated? I thought 15 to 17 seconds was a good time, but I keep getting ~30 seconds, even with a tight turn into the groove (0.7NM start).

Thanks again, the alpha version is already a huge success IMHO, really enjoy it!
Capt
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Sludge
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« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2011, 03:22:51 AM »

CAPT...

Great thread idea.

Now you said you haven't had any of the "ship stopping" issues that a few of us others have had? If not, maybe we can meet up on Skype and trade FSX setup parameters. Maybe something (FSX LAT/LONG formats?, FSX.CFG setup?) is different that's causing the problem? It'd probly help out Serge, so let me know when you get the chance.

Later
Sludge
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Johan
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« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2011, 05:34:21 AM »

CAPT...

Great thread idea.

Now you said you haven't had any of the "ship stopping" issues that a few of us others have had? If not, maybe we can meet up on Skype and trade FSX setup parameters. Maybe something (FSX LAT/LONG formats?, FSX.CFG setup?) is different that's causing the problem? It'd probly help out Serge, so let me know when you get the chance.

Later
Sludge

Sludge,

I don't have the "ship stopping" issue anymore on the mission with Javier's AC (I haven't used the other one at all, since Javier's is really the best AC) . Don't ask me why...the only thing I changed in the config was to have the Sludge 323 as the default plane when I load...just my 2-cents.

Johan
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SUBS17
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« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2011, 05:36:56 AM »

Is this for both SP and MP, awesome.
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Sludge
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« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2011, 06:47:19 AM »

Johan...

Hmm, I'll have to try that along with launching from Cat 3/4. Did you use the Sludge 323 CAG or the standard Sludge 323? I know I only have the problem intermittently when I launch from those cats (3/4) as once I hook up, I see the ship "speed up" again. But no matter what Sludge Hornet I use, when I got to Cat 1/2, the carrier stops 'TIL I launch, then you can see that it starts up as the wake gradually gets longer.

I think I'll try try again FROM SCRATCH and start with the original files and then hook up to Cat 3/4 and see what happens. It might be a "window" issue, in that we have to cat from 3/4 because Serge made an "event window" there? I dont know, but I'll test sometime later and see what happens.

Later
Sludge
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GOONIE
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« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2011, 02:56:11 PM »

Sludge,
Let me know how your testing goes and if I can help. I usually launch from CAT 4, and don't have any carrier stopping issues. Does this happen at the beginning of the mission for you?

-Capt
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Johan
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« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2011, 04:48:55 PM »

Johan...

Hmm, I'll have to try that along with launching from Cat 3/4. Did you use the Sludge 323 CAG or the standard Sludge 323? I know I only have the problem intermittently when I launch from those cats (3/4) as once I hook up, I see the ship "speed up" again. But no matter what Sludge Hornet I use, when I got to Cat 1/2, the carrier stops 'TIL I launch, then you can see that it starts up as the wake gradually gets longer.

I think I'll try try again FROM SCRATCH and start with the original files and then hook up to Cat 3/4 and see what happens. It might be a "window" issue, in that we have to cat from 3/4 because Serge made an "event window" there? I dont know, but I'll test sometime later and see what happens.

Later
Sludge

Sludge,

I am in Lake Tahoe for a week, no access to my system and limited access to internet. I am using the 323 CAG for this great mission.
Thanks,

Johan
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Paddles
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« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2011, 11:13:16 AM »

Ok guys, I'm back and ready to continue. However, it will take me some time to get back "into the groove" Smiley

Capt, that was a good move to start this separate vLSO thread!
Well, let me comment on your input.

Lateral tolerances could be made much tighter. Also tighter glideslope tolerances and time in groove, could all affect grading. On Speed grading seems to be working well and is tough. Maybe have three levels of scoring, nugget, CAG, and CAG LSO - I took those tolerances from RHE-NAV-90-TR-1, no other sources were available at the moment. I agree that the tolerances could be made tighter, but to what extent? Perhaps having some 'real life' figures would be nice...

The moderate LSO calls is not working - these calls should work as per NATOPS, see the attached PDF, Spaz's courtesy. Imperative calls from this PDF correspond to the moderate vLSO level.

One idea I had was to have a trigger or button in FSX that acts as a cue for calling the ball. ...cut... Anyways just thought to make the calls more realistic, see the ball and the make the call, not wait for the auto trigger "call the ball". - I agree that this would make it more realistic, but this would also limit the pilot (and the program/missions) to having some button assigned to a certain FSX function.

-Need more LSO grades, like OK, cut, and even an _OK_ - will be done, WBD hereinafter  Wink

-Keep tracking lateral and vertical paths for the debrief windows even for a wave off - up to what point? Ship's island, bow or what?...

-Not a fan of the computer voice LSO calls ... I will see if I can find some audio clips - I'm sure you'll be able to find most of those missed calls.  Smiley

-option for  T-45c - WBD
-option for FCLP - WBD
-option for CASE 3 approach, with approach calls - perhaps I'll need to study Case 3 specs
-color in LSO grade book for score, think you showed this in an earlier version (might be later for greenie board) - it's for the greenie board
-zoomed out debrief, gods eye view, to see pattern performance (downwind) - this will require big changes to the program, but I'll think about it
-larger font for LSO grade and score, if it could also look hand written, which would be cool - yes, that would be cool
-add carrier profiles pictures to the debrief windows, see my earlier post for pics - will think about it

- add LSO, plat, air boss cams - WBD
- mission 2 does not work for me, I continue to get waved off but I am on and on - will test that mission once again
- is it possible to add any support ships, usually a ship is several miles behind the carrier on guard - WBD

After trapping XX amount of times with acceptable passes, the vLSO could trigger an LSO call which says you are qual'd. If you have too many wave offs or one wires, the LSO should tell you to shut down or RTB. - it could be done

How is the "time in groove" calculated? .. - will see what's wrong with the groove time

I appreciate everyone's feedback on the vLSO, thanks guys!

* Pages from 00-80T-104--LSO NATOPS.pdf (96.75 KB - downloaded 248 times.)
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GOONIE
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« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2011, 08:06:37 PM »

Welcome back Serge!

Thanks for the feedback, couple responses.

Lateral tolerances could be made much tighter. OK I don't have any real life figures either, so maybe we could have two settings; NATOPS and CAG LSO (could use made up tolerences that are extremely tight, not sure what that means in angular terms). Does anyone else want this? Also look at the attached pic, I am lined up left (LUL) at the start, but did not get the mark in my score.

In terms of vertical tolerences, how do they work? Attached are a couple debrief pics which show me a little low and high at the X, but I did not recieve these in my grade. Do I have to stay a little high or low for xx seconds before I get the score (LO) or (H)?

up to what point? Ship's island, bow or what?... I would say ship's ramp at least. I have also got a Wave Off after floating high over the wires. I think their is a point you can no longer wave off an aircraft, and it seems strange to recieve a wave off when I float past the fourth wire, think a bolter call would make more sense. Attached is a Wave Off debrief pic showing the track stopping before the ramp.  Shocked (PIO!) Note these pictures are not how I normally fly, I was testing the vLSO grading  Wink

Also noticed (as others) the carrier will come to a stop when launching from CAT 1, not sure what is happening here. It starts up after you launch, at least it does for me.

Looking forward to all the WBD and I will see if I can get some LSO audio files for you.

-CAPT


* LUL.JPG (64.38 KB, 1100x773 - viewed 173 times.)

* LO.JPG (67.38 KB, 1096x758 - viewed 163 times.)

* High.JPG (73.33 KB, 1100x771 - viewed 161 times.)

* wave off.JPG (72.62 KB, 1100x773 - viewed 157 times.)
« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 08:12:32 PM by capthaltli » Logged

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SpazSinbad
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« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2011, 09:28:51 PM »

Due to new thread perhaps worthwhile to repost this info from:
(3 PDF pages are same as the combined 3 page images in .GIF graphic)

OUTER-LOOP CONTROL FACTORS FOR CARRIER AIRCRAFT
Robert K. Heffley, 1 December 1990

http://robertheffleyengineering.com/docs/CV_environ/RHE_NAV_90_TR_1.pdf


* LSObasedPerfParamHeffley.gif (122.81 KB, 1250x2505 - viewed 204 times.)
* LSObasedPerfParamHeffleyPP3.pdf (86.03 KB - downloaded 121 times.)
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Johan
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« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2011, 02:54:54 AM »

Hello Serge, welcome back. I have been enjoying your vLSO from the first day of release. It is a wonderful step up from your previous already great missions.
I would like to suggest that if you tighten up some of the tolerances (lateral and vertical), you make that as an option for the more experimented real-life pilots...I don't want to get stuck up there with so many "wave-off's" that I can never land the plane on the AC Smiley
Thanks for your great contributions,

Johan
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Paddles
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« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2011, 11:25:47 AM »

Ok, to start off I tweaked LSO logbook font - it's larger now and has nice handwritten style.
I used this one http://www.dafont.com/andrew-script.font cool and free font by Andrew Vardeman. I suggest you guys to browse that huge bunch of fonts, maybe you'll find something better and we can give it a try.  Wink

Capt, minus one item from your 'to do' list  Grin


* LSOhandwritten.jpg (110.67 KB, 1022x698 - viewed 198 times.)
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GOONIE
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« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2011, 03:31:38 PM »

Very cool Serge!  Grin I think it looks pretty good, maybe try in bold, or I saw "Light up the world" and "Hand of Sean" handwritten scripts looked promising.

Attached is the handwritten LSO example.

CAPT


* Picture2.jpg (92.6 KB, 775x605 - viewed 191 times.)
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wilycoyote4
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« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2011, 05:05:00 PM »

fsxnavypilot-----
amazing, keep at it, thanks
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Paddles
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« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2011, 04:27:12 AM »

Some more handwritten fonts to evaluate

HandwrittenCrystal by Crystal Suovanen
Aji Hand by Ajith R
Seans Other Hand by Nice and Ripe Ltd

I personally would prefer Seans'  Smiley


* HandwrittenCrystal.jpg (102.76 KB, 1022x698 - viewed 180 times.)

* AjiHand.jpg (103.38 KB, 1022x698 - viewed 163 times.)

* Seans.jpg (105.59 KB, 1022x698 - viewed 180 times.)
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