Author Topic: Runway 2 Disappears at PHOG  (Read 15414 times)

Kelleymoe

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Re: Runway 2 Disappears at PHOG
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2011, 06:54:17 pm »
Swiss1,

Yes I have the additional files installed in the correct folders and I reactivated PHOG, but I still have the problem with the runway peeling back when I land.  I had this problem with PHLI first came out, but that was fixed with the patch.  I still find it interesting that I only have/had this problem with airports not on the Big Island (PHKO/PHTO).  I currently have it with PHNL and PHOG and I use to have it with PHLI.

Mike

Kelleymoe

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Re: Runway 2 Disappears at PHOG
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2011, 02:13:59 am »
***FIXED***

Thanks Swiss1!!!!  You are brillant!  Using the program you mentioned (JABBgl) I was able to fix my problems with PHNL and PHOG.  Without spending a lot of time getting it down to the exact mm, I changed the elevation at PHNL to 4.000 (from 3.962) and PHOG to 16.500 (from 16.459).  Now, everything works perfectly.  I'll probably keep experimenting with the program until I find the exact elevation I need.  But for now, everything looks perfect.  I have no floating/sinking AI or runway markings, so I guess raising the elevation didn't cause any other problems.  I plan on making a long flight and see what happens.

Also, I now understand what Umberto and Fabrizo mean when they say they "can't see the problem."  They can't.  It would've taken them a long time to come up with the elevation that works for my system.  They basically would be guessing because the changes they made would probably not look good on their system.  I've been having problems with PHNL since Jul 10.  Now, I can enjoy my hobby and fly around the islands!  Cheers :)

Mike

Ethan744N763

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Re: Runway 2 Disappears at PHOG
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2011, 04:39:24 am »
Glad to hear its fixed in FS9 :)

Is JABBbgl an fs9 program only? Do you know of any similar program that can change the airport elevation to the millimeter for FSX (other then ADE)?

Kelleymoe

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Re: Runway 2 Disappears at PHOG
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2011, 04:59:10 am »
I don't know since I don't use FSX.  I'm thinking it's just a FS9 program since it came out in 2004.  However, I could be wrong.

Mike

aev

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Re: Runway 2 Disappears at PHOG
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2011, 06:17:31 am »
THANX,THANX,THANX,so much,Kelleymoe (Mike),the problem is solved to me too for PHNL and PHOG....best regards.... ;D

virtuali

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Re: Runway 2 Disappears at PHOG
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2011, 08:36:56 am »
Using the program you mentioned (JABBgl) I was able to fix my problems with PHNL and PHOG.  Without spending a lot of time getting it down to the exact mm, I changed the elevation at PHNL to 4.000 (from 3.962) and PHOG to 16.500 (from 16.459).

That's interesting, 4 cm seems nothing, but is still quite a bit, considering the flatten it's lower than that so, the distance between the conflicting layers it's even more.

However, if it works for you, it shouldn't create any side effects, we might well use that value as standard.

Kelleymoe

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Re: Runway 2 Disappears at PHOG
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2011, 02:37:23 pm »
Umberto,

I plan on reducing the elevation until I get to the exact millimeter.  At first I was doing 2mm at a time.  That was taking too long, so I just picked 4.000 for PHNL and 16.500 for PHOG.  There may be great distances between the layers, but moving around the airport, everything lays perfectly.

I still can't figure out why my elevation results, and some others, are so different than yours and the rest of the people?  When I was trying to figure out PHNL, I bought a new harddrive, installed XP, install FS2004 and PHNL (nothing else) and I still had the problems after landing with the runway markings disappearing. There shouldn't have been any interferance from other scenery or add-ons.  I wonder if it could be a hardware issue?  I don't know, but for now, I'm enjoying beautiful Hawaii!

Mike

swiss1

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Re: Runway 2 Disappears at PHOG
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2011, 04:12:40 pm »
My first test with the proposed altitude of 16.459m shows no runway peeling when starting at airport Phog and landing at Phog rwy 2 &5.

After several other tests, I noted again runway peeling starting at an other airport (ex. PHNY) and landing back at POG  2 & 5.
With the JABBgl.exe utility and trial and error method, I slowly increased the airport altitude till the point where I didn't see runway 2 & 5 peeling any more.

This standard altitude is 16.478 m which is 19mm higher than the FS9 default value.
I checked also the AI aircraft level which is ok ,(no floating aircraft).
Thanks all for the help.

virtuali

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Re: Runway 2 Disappears at PHOG
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2011, 05:34:51 pm »
Basically, as long as you change both files to the same altitude ( the main AFCAD and the smaller one ), there shouldn't be an floating AI problem, that would only appear if you don't use the smaller file and change the altitude compared to the default one.

So, it's really doesn't matter which altitude you chose to use, since we are discussing about centimeters, it's not a big deal if the airport is set to an altitude 3-4 centimeters more than the real world, it never be realistic anyway, since no airport is really flat, and the published altitude it's just the one taken in the ARP reference point...whatever works for you, it's ok.

Yes, this could be hardware related, or more likely driver related. What affects the flickering at the driver level it's the Z-Buffer, the flickering happens because there's aren't enough bit used to get enough precision to represent altitude differences that small. Usually, you'd want to use a 32 bit Z-buffer, but made some research, and it seems some drivers cut corners and use a lower bit depth for the Z-buffer to get a performance boost, at the expense of image quality. In theory, WHQL certified drivers should have 24 bit z-buffer precision as minimum, but this might change between releases, tweaks, etc.

Note that, it's not possible to have a Z-buffer depth larger than the main color depth so, if you run FS9 in 16-bit color, it would have a worse 16 bit z-buffer too.

That might explain a difference in results between different systems.