Author Topic: Upgrade/remake of ENBR  (Read 10669 times)

Bakern

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Upgrade/remake of ENBR
« on: June 25, 2011, 09:17:58 am »
I have a prayer to the FSDT, will you be so kind and consider making ENBR in same quality as LSZH. I know it's made ​​a few changes on the apron in relation to what was made when Cloud9 came with their ENBR scenery, and if I'm not wrong, it will be even more changes later.

So it would be really nice with a "new" and updated  ENBR scenery, as it look's today.  ;)

Please consider this.

Brgds
Stein-Ove Rud

Bakern

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Re: Upgrade/remake of ENBR
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2011, 09:13:44 pm »
I have a prayer to the FSDT, will you be so kind and consider making ENBR in same quality as LSZH. I know it's made ​​a few changes on the apron in relation to what was made when Cloud9 came with their ENBR scenery, and if I'm not wrong, it will be even more changes later.

So it would be really nice with a "new" and updated  ENBR scenery, as it look's today.  ;)

Please consider this.

Brgds
Stein-Ove Rud

Hello all.


Thanks to you all, 92 visits, not one that wants the same thing as me? Thanks for all the support, it warms really ...   :o

Have a super nice evening all!!

Brgds
Stein-Ove
(at least one who want an remaked ENBR)

virtuali

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Re: Upgrade/remake of ENBR
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2011, 09:42:03 pm »
Thanks to you all, 92 visits, not one that wants the same thing as me? Thanks for all the support, it warms really ... 

I must have missed this post so, please, don't assume because a post might be missed, there's no "support" offered here.

However, I think you understood the main issue yourself: there's no such striking interest, for many reasons:

- ENBR hasn't been dramatically changed in real world, like Zurich or O'Hare have been, changes were very minor.

- It's still the best looking ENBR on the market, doesn't look dated and performs very fast.

- The level of interest (=actual sales) for ENBR can't be compared to other airports we made. Really: it has sold about 1/10th of JFK and Zurich, and was released earlier.

Bakern

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Re: Upgrade/remake of ENBR
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2011, 08:29:51 am »

I must have missed this post so, please, don't assume because a post might be missed, there's no "support" offered here.

However, I think you understood the main issue yourself: there's no such striking interest, for many reasons:

- ENBR hasn't been dramatically changed in real world, like Zurich or O'Hare have been, changes were very minor.


Thanks for answer, virtuali.

But i think you miss a big point when you say it's no dramatically changes at ENBR.
You can see for yourself at this site http://www.avinor.no/lufthavn/bergen/omoss/_forvarenaboer, open external links (blue text) on right side of this page, several pdf files you can open. (only norwegian language but some photos to show you the idea of whats going on)

New taxiways, some of them opened already and new Terminal underway.



- It's still the best looking ENBR on the market, doesn't look dated and performs very fast.


Yeah, sure you can say that, and until now the only one in payware version,  i would say, outdated.



- The level of interest (=actual sales) for ENBR can't be compared to other airports we made. Really: it has sold about 1/10th of JFK and Zurich, and was released earlier.


Well, of course you are right in this, but...., it's a big but, in our region (Norway) there have been so many negative comment's on your (Cloud9) scenery, because of the long ongoing flickering apron\taxiway issue, that you made a fix for (i would say," fix lite"),  some time ago. And one more thing, in FSX we don't even have moving jetway's!!!!   
(Many simmers have been thinking tree or four times before bying this sceney.)

I'm sure, if you had redone ENBR up to date and at same level of detail like JFK and Zurich, your sales also had been much better. The main reason for low sales with ENBR, are this factor's and that is the true.

Brgds
Stein-Ove
« Last Edit: July 12, 2011, 08:32:50 am by Bakern »

virtuali

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Re: Upgrade/remake of ENBR
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2011, 10:12:51 am »
But i think you miss a big point when you say it's no dramatically changes at ENBR.

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New taxiways, some of them opened already and new Terminal underway.

Nothing comparable to the changes at KORD, for example. And, fact a new Terminal is not completed, it's reason enough not to think about an update right now.

Quote
Well, of course you are right in this, but...., it's a big but, in our region (Norway) there have been so many negative comment's on your (Cloud9) scenery, because of the long ongoing flickering apron\taxiway issue, that you made a fix for (i would say," fix lite"),  some time ago.

If people comments things on their our community places, instead of reporting problems on the developer's forums, the one and only effect would be that fixes will be delayed, since we can't obviously go reading forums everywhere for comments, and much less if they are in Norwegian...it's obvious that, if there a 2-3 people complaining on our forums, we can only assume the problem is minor.

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And one more thing, in FSX we don't even have moving jetway's!!!!   

It wouldn't be the first FSX scenery that has fixed jetways. In fact, we are one of the very few developers that adds moving jetways in FSX. The problem is, FSX doesn't support well the kind of jetways at ENBR, which are unusual because they move only up/down, it gave too many problems. I don't think other FSX sceneries with static jetways (basically all of them, except ours...) are getting low sales because of that.

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(Many simmers have been thinking tree or four times before bying this sceney.)I'm sure, if you had redone ENBR up to date and at same level of detail like JFK and Zurich, your sales also had been much better. The main reason for low sales with ENBR, are this factor's and that is the true.

No, it's not. Most of the sales for a scenery are made in the very first months, from there you can assess how the final sales will be.

ENBR was released in Feb. 2007, even before FSX SP1. At that time, there was no flickering issue, the problem became apparent only after FSX SP2 was released, at the end of the year, because both SP1 and SP2 changed many things regarding ground polygons, which caused the flickering, but sales were already very low compared to other sceneries even when there was no flickering.

Both PHNL and KDFW had flickering issues in their initial release, possibly even more annoying that ENBR, it didn't affect sales at all, even before the solution was available.

The real reason is, there's no enough interest for a scenery in Norway, it's the same reason why we stopped doing Italian sceneries long ago.

In any case, the whole issue is, this is a scenery published and (still) owned by Cloud9. We are not Cloud9, Cloud9 was just our customer for the activation system, and the former scenery designer that did ENBR now work with us, but when we took over support for Cloud9 products, we clearly said support would only mean support users with reactivations, keep the sceneries usable with regard to forward compatibility with our later sceneries and eventually fixing problems that might prevent loading the scenery due to OS updates, etc.

Keep the scenery updated to reflect the real world changes, is really outside of the scope of the support agreement we have with Cloud9. Yes, we *can* do a remake of scenery, if we want, but then it's our choice about which sceneries would be commercially feasible for a remake, and I'm afraid ENBR doesn't fit the description.

Bakern

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Re: Upgrade/remake of ENBR
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2011, 11:00:21 am »
I see i can't argue with you, and that is the main reason why you heard so little complainings from norwegian simmers, they give up, arguing with you is the same as banging head into the wall!!!



Of course, that's your choice not to remake ENBR, but i hope, and many with me, a another developer would think about making a "new" ENBR. Of course i see it, if it doesn't fit your profit profile, we don't do it, simple as that.

Brgds
Stein-Ove
« Last Edit: July 12, 2011, 12:22:34 pm by virtuali »

virtuali

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Re: Upgrade/remake of ENBR
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2011, 12:43:51 pm »
I see i can't argue with you, and that is the main reason why you heard so little complainings from norwegian simmers, they give up, arguing with you is the same as banging head into the wall!!!

This sentence of yours clearly demonstrate why it's probably useless to be honest and open and, instead, it would be better to assume a more "corporate" stance, like saying "thank you for your suggestions, we'll consider it" and of course doing nothing as well.

I only illustrated facts and technical issues about the problems, without even mentioning the fact you don't want to acknowledge this IS a Cloud9 scenery, its development was entirely financed by Cloud9, even if they made the choice to do it at that time, that doesn't mean should do their commercial choices as they did.

As I've said, we always said what would be the extent of our support for former Cloud9 products, which means helping users with any activation problems, allowing them to run the scenery even years after they purchased it, and being sure our releases don't break any Cloud9 installed product, all things we did.

We also made the small fix for the flickering, which is even more than we were supposed to do, but to do a significant update, it's an entirely different thing, since the agreement we have with Cloud9 for new versions of their sceneries is that if we want to publish a significant upgrade/remake we'all have to pay Cloud9 a fee for each copy, so it's not commercially worth for us.

The alternative would be redoing the *whole* scenery from scratch, not including a single bit of the Cloud9 version, which make sense for KLAX (that's why we ARE redoing it from scratch), but not for ENBR, since the potential market is just too small.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2011, 04:30:17 pm by virtuali »

Bakern

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Re: Upgrade/remake of ENBR
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2011, 01:25:33 pm »
Quote
I see i can't argue with you, and that is the main reason why you heard so little complainings from norwegian simmers, they give up, arguing with you is the same as banging head into the wall!!!


Well, i speak honest and open, and "straight from the liver" as we say in Norway, but maybe that's hard to swallow....  ;)

So, as for me, i'm not going to let this go further on, i have said what i have on my mind about this.

Brgds
Stein-Ove




Scandinavian

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Re: Upgrade/remake of ENBR
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2011, 08:25:49 pm »
I won't come between you in the argument above. But if the future shined bright and you were to remake ENBR I would have been so happy, my future first born would have to be named Umberto.  ;)
The airport looks less and less like the old Cloud9 release. The changes are pretty severe. Complete renaming of taxiways, new taxiways. A completely new remote stand. Moving of the parallel taxiway to make cat II possible. A new hangar. The hotel has been completed. A few of those changes are annoying not to have in FS I bet you can understand.
But of course it's mad remaking an airport right in the middle of expansion, it would be outdated the second you leave the airport with a fresh set of reference pictures.  ::)