Author Topic: Disappearing AI in Honolulu FSX  (Read 19458 times)

tetchan

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Disappearing AI in Honolulu FSX
« on: April 07, 2011, 08:22:48 pm »
I read somewhere on previous older posts that says you must remove aircraft shadows in order to see non-FSX aircraft and that is because FSX does not show non-FSX aircraft in airports with customized textures.  What distingushes a FSX aircraft from a non-FSX aircraft? Is it it's texturing, model, air files?  What customized texuring does FSDT Honolulu FX have that makes non-FSX aicraft invisible with shadows activated?

virtuali

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Re: Disappearing AI in Honolulu FSX
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2011, 09:30:22 pm »
What makes an AI model an FSX native model, it's the .MDL file, which should have been created using the FSX SDK. When seen with an hex editore, the beginning of the file will contain the MDLXMDLH string, compared to FS9 models, which will contain the MDL8MDLH string.

FS9 models are not compatible with airports which uses custom runway textures, unless you turn "Aircraft cast shadows on ground" OFF. Beside, since FS9 AI models in FSX are heavier on fps than native ones, you would probably want to turn off airplane shadows anyway...

ikarus2010

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Re: Disappearing AI in Honolulu FSX
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2011, 12:54:24 pm »
Hi all,

I also have the problems with the WOAI  AI traffic disappearing in fsdt-LSZH and fsdt-PHNL sceneries when the aircraft shadow is on, but not with fsdt LSGG! This is strange. I now changed LSZH fsdt into FreeZ Zurich live and the problem is solved. But what with other fsdt sceneries?

Can anyone tell me what to do? to uninstall the shadow is a great pity. Is there a difference between "myTraffic2010" and WOAI (WOAI offers both fs9 and fsx installation, but even fsx installation does not solve the shadow problem with fsdt)

Thanks a lot for your help

Best regards

Alfred  
« Last Edit: May 13, 2011, 01:59:04 pm by virtuali »

virtuali

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Re: Disappearing AI in Honolulu FSX
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2011, 01:58:48 pm »
I also have the problems with the WOAI  AI traffic disappearing in fsdt-LSZH and fsdt-PHNL sceneries when the aircraft shadow is on, but not with fsdt LSGG! This is strange. I now changed LSZH fsdt into FreeZ Zurich live and the problem is solved. But what with other fsdt sceneries?

As explained in other threads, the problem is caused by using AIs made for FS9 into FSX which is both slower than using FSX native models, and creates this problem but ONLY at airports which are using custom runway textures+lights, LSZH has them, LSGG does not. If an airport uses default runway textures, even FS9 AI models will display. Of course, an LSZH representation without its particular runway texture, loses a lot of realism. Most of our airports have custom runway textures.

And, in any case, by using FS9 AI models in FSX, you are getting worse performances anyway.

So, either you turn off the "Airplane Cast Shadows on Ground" option OR you use a proper FSX traffic package in FSX, instead of one ported from FS9. The fact that a traffic package has an "FSX install", doesn't make it FSX native. See my previous message how to identify a proper FSX model.

I believe that both MyTraffic 2010 and Ultimate Traffic 2 use native FSX models, but surely WOAI does not, for the most part.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2011, 02:01:12 pm by virtuali »

petakas

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Solution
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2013, 10:19:18 am »
Unfortunately I have the same problem.
Switching shadows OFF is for me unrealistic and also on each Display Settings update the texture resolution setting goes to 1024 and then I need to manually change it to 2048 or 4096.

I found this thread though on the issue at the FS Developer's forum.
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20182

User BrBlazer explains that it is related to RUNWAY LIGHTS being compiled by SCASM and also provides a solution.

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Yep. Avoid using SCASM code. I know we love easy scasm code for runway lights, papis and stuff, but FSX post-SP2 doesn't which is a shame.

There are 2 solutions that I know of: Model your runway and it's lights in gmax with BGLLIGHT, or cut a whole in your ground poly to show the AFCAD runway bellow.

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The fs2002 gamepack poly is still good, as it's code compiled by bglcomp.exe, not by scasm.exe.

The invisible runway is the one that causes it. If you remove that bgl from the scenery folder, you'll see the aircraft in the day with shadows on.

Question to Umberto:
Is it so hard to change this to the above solution with an update so that we have certain AI planes not invisible ?

Kyprianos Biris

virtuali

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Re: Solution
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2013, 11:03:09 am »
Question to Umberto:Is it so hard to change this to the above solution with an update so that we have certain AI planes not invisible ?

We obviously know BOTH the cause (use of lights-only command + invisible runway + FS9 AI models used in FSX ) AND the BEST solution, which is not the one proposed there, which still relies on using FS8 code, but rather the one we used in later sceneries we made like KDFW, KLAX, CYVR, JFK V2, which is entirely custom runway lights without the slow FS8 ground polygons.

However, the point is the issue happens ONLY with FS9 AI models, it doesn't happen with FSX AI models, and using FS9 AI models is wrong AND slows down the frame rate, and we don't want the scenery being slow down by such slow AI models.

Which means:

- you either switch shadows off, which will make the FS9 AI models to reappear, saving also a bit of performance you are losing because they are FS9 models used in FSX

OR

- you switch using proper FSX AI models, that don't have this issue to begin with, and are faster

Using the "solution" proposed above, will allow using FS9 AI models with airplane shadows On, thus slowing down the sim in two ways, both because enabling Shadows over AI is slower for sure, and because they are for FS9, and we don't want have users get the wrong impression the scenery is "slow", just because they insist using the wrong AIs so, AT LEAST, turn the shadows Off for a performance gain.

The newer sceneries we made, using 100% native FSX code, are faster in any case, so they might afford slower AIs, if you really don't want to replace them.

Again, the proper solution is switching to FSX native AI models, if you want to keep airplane shadows on. Or, turn off the shadows, your choice.

It's not an FSDT-only issue, of course. Several sceneries from Aerosoft, for example, are exactly the same.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2013, 04:24:02 pm by virtuali »

johnny_gitara

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Re: Disappearing AI in Honolulu FSX
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2013, 03:30:54 pm »
Umberto has a good point guys. U could use UT2 addon with FSX native AI models, but also you can use (like me) FAIB Airbus A32X and B737-2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 models made for FSX. UTT also published native FSX models of MD-11, B787, B748, CRJ1000 and CRJ900 though, as we now know most were stolen from their original authors. The rest of the big boys A300, A310, A330, A340, A380, B747 B757, B767, B777 are stll FS9 native. Hopefully their authors will update models to FSX standards.

Best regards,

Ivan


ps AiAArdvark published FSX update for majority of their models already.

miata54

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Re: Disappearing AI in Honolulu FSX
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2013, 09:20:34 pm »
Out of curiosity, I downloaded and installed the PHNL demo for FS9. My AI aircraft are all WoAI. I notice that all my AI aircraft display in FS9 but only a few in FSX. I understand that the few that do display in FSX were modeled for FSX, noting the string in the hex editor being MDLXMDLH. I also notice that all the WoAI used in my FS9 also display shadows, where in FSX (for the models that show) they do not. Are the runways textures that FSDT uses in FS9 & FSX, the same?

virtuali

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Re: Disappearing AI in Honolulu FSX
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2013, 10:04:59 pm »
I also notice that all the WoAI used in my FS9 also display shadows, where in FSX (for the models that show) they do not.

The issue only happens if you use FS9 AI models in FSX. It doesn't happen when using FS9 AI in FS9, they were made for it, so the problem doesn't exists in FS9.

petakas

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Re: Solution
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2013, 11:22:10 pm »
Question to Umberto:Is it so hard to change this to the above solution with an update so that we have certain AI planes not invisible ?

We obviously know BOTH the cause (use of lights-only command + invisible runway + FS9 AI models used in FSX ) AND the BEST solution, which is not the one proposed there, which still relies on using FS8 code, but rather the one we used in later sceneries we made like KDFW, KLAX, CYVR, JFK V2, which is entirely custom runway lights without the slow FS8 ground polygons.

Dear Umberto

I admire your JFK v2 and there I can see all AI Traffic.

Unfortunately I am not able to have an AI library with newer models only like many other simmers.
One of the reason is that I always fly On Line with SquawkBox/FSInn and they don't come with newer AI models.

Still what you ask us the users (to change AI models) nobody of other equally excellent of your level designers (FlyTampa, FSDG, 29Palms) has asked us and still they have made Excellent sceneries, WITH old AI visible and NOT heavy due to their code.

You made it with JFK v2 why not try it for PHNL ?

I will not go in to details as to how I perceive your answer since it is best we keep this technical but I was really hopping that you were stepping on your average client's shoes rather than trying to teach the world how they should provide YOU the best - up to date - resources in order not to try a bit harder to accommodate for all. Anyway ...

Please reconsider, you have done it in KFK v2, is it impossible for PHNL ?

These missing AI's are really degrading the whole immersion factor and disabling aircraft shadows (to show older AI) is a serious cut back in realism.
Also in any change to Graphics options FSX reverts resolution back to 1024 (from 4096 that some of our aircraft/sceneries/clouds need).

Kyprianos Biris

virtuali

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Re: Solution
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2013, 10:07:33 am »
Unfortunately I am not able to have an AI library with newer models only like many other simmers.

Then you will have to miss those specific models.

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Still what you ask us the users (to change AI models) nobody of other equally excellent of your level designers (FlyTampa, FSDG, 29Palms) has asked us and still they have made Excellent sceneries, WITH old AI visible and NOT heavy due to their code.

That's because they haven't used custom runways for such airports. The problem happens only with the COMBINATION of using an airport with custom runway textures and legacy AI models. And no, it's not an "FSDT thing", many airports from Aerosoft are made in the same way.

But this is something we solved in later sceneries, not just JFK2, but KDFW, KLAX and CYVR also have fully custom runways, but without requiring native AI models. However, it doesn't change the fact that, even if you CAN use FS8 AI models on such airports, it wouldn't be a very good idea using them anyway, because one a scenery is entirely 100% native FSX code, having FS8 code mixed in is really bad for performances, but you won't notice it if the scenery is not made like that.

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You made it with JFK v2 why not try it for PHNL ?

Because what we did with JFK2 was a complete remake of the airport, which was a PAID upgrade but, of course, it wasn't "just" to be compatible with legacy AI, it was to update the airport that had a major overhaul, to be fully compatible with DX10/11, etc.

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Please reconsider, you have done it in KFK v2, is it impossible for PHNL ?

There's nothing to "reconsider", it's fairly obvious that, whenever we'll decide to revisit a scenery for a remake, it will be done using fully native code. Again, not for allowing you to use outdated AIs, but to improve the scenery with such code, and entirely unrelated to the AI.

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These missing AI's are really degrading the whole immersion factor and disabling aircraft shadows (to show older AI) is a serious cut back in realism

No, you are ONLY missing the small percentage of your AIs that haven't been updated to FSX code. I really hope that, for your own fps sake, those are a minority of your AI collection.

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Also in any change to Graphics options FSX reverts resolution back to 1024 (from 4096 that some of our aircraft/sceneries/clouds need).

That's not correct. In fact, one of the main advantage of having the Addon Manager setting up the textures resolution, is that you CAN change your graphic settings as you please, but the texture resolution will STAY at the value set with the Addon Manager because the Addon Manager, opposite to what other similar utilities, does NOT "just" set the 4096 value in the FSX.CFG, but it will ALSO set the value in memory, calling an FSX API routine that will set that value AS IF FSX was restarted.

This means, even if you change anything in the settings, you can use the Addon Manager to set the textures resolution back to 4096, without restarting.

AirBorne

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Re: Disappearing AI in Honolulu FSX
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2014, 11:00:30 pm »
I think this is so annoying disabling the shadows without consent of the simmer. I'd like to suggest that you make it optional.
For now, I solved this issue creating a .BAT file that every time FSX is started up a new custom FSX.CFG is put, and the previous one deleted.

virtuali

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Re: Disappearing AI in Honolulu FSX
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2014, 11:22:57 pm »
I think this is so annoying disabling the shadows without consent of the simmer. I'd like to suggest that you make it optional.

I think you are confusing the automatic switching of airplane shadows depending on altitude that happens ONLY inside of the area of an FSDT scenery, with the suggestion to turn if off when using LEGACY AI models that has been discussed here.

The Addon Manager DOES NOT disable shadows "without consent", it controls AI shadows to be on/off depending on the altitude, and ONLY when you are flying inside an area of an FSDT scenery, but your original setting in the FSX.CFG is preserved and restored once you exit from the area.

This switch is NOT made in order to fix compatibility with legacy AI models, it's made because, with our latest sceneries ( those with full DX10 compatibility and 100% native FSX code ), the ground textures are NOT compatible with airplane shadows.

Over a certain altitude, you WON'T SEE THE SHADOW ANYWAY so, it's totally useless to keep it on, losing performances, because FSX is still trying to draw the shadow, but you won't be able to see it due to how the ground scenery has been made in order to be fully DX10 compatible and fully FSX native, with all the performance benefit that comes with it, like the memory saving you can achieve with DX10 and the net 30% fps increase that a scenery for, let's say, JFK, gained when switching to native FSX code.

If we made the airplane shadows "optional", as you are suggesting here, you would likely see a performance decrease with NO visual benefits whatsoever, because even if you had the airplane shadows enabled, they won't be visible, but they would still cause an fps loss, which would be higher the more AI you have.

So, when flying over an area of an FSDT scenery, if you had the airplane shadows enabled under your control, you wouldn't see the shadows over a certain altitude, but you would still have the performance loss associated with it, THAT'S why that setting is not "optional".

If you *knew* about this (now you know...), you would probably complain that is "annoying" having to constantly remind to turn OFF airplane shadows (that you wouldn't be able to see) on an FSDT scenery to get the best possible performances, and how it would be better if it were "automatic", which is exactly how it is right now.

When you are OUTSIDE the area of an FSDT scenery, the setting is restored as it were, and it's BACK under YOUR control.

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For now, I solved this issue creating a .BAT file that every time FSX is started up a new custom FSX.CFG is put, and the previous one deleted.

Totally useless, because outside of an area of an FSDT scenery, the setting will be restored as it was before, and when inside an area of an FSDT scenery, the shadow will go on/off depending on the altitude regardless of what's inside the FSX.CFG, because it will be changed directly in the FSX memory.

Restoring the FSX.CFG would help only in these two cases:

1) You ended a flight when flying over an FSDT scenery on an higher altitude than the threshold where the shadows would be switched off.

2) You saved a startup flight over an FSDT scenery on an higher altitude than the threshold where the shadows would be switched off.

So no, the shadows switching depending on altitude inside the area of an FSDT scenery will not made optional, but we might change the Addon Manager that your original setting would be restored also when exiting from FSX when you are flying over an FSDT scenery, that's the only thing that would be useful.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2014, 11:26:34 pm by virtuali »

AirBorne

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Re: Disappearing AI in Honolulu FSX
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2014, 05:11:07 am »
What annoys me is the fact that occasionally I get the shadows disabled "forever" I don't know why and how, that's why I created the batch file. And I don't use to quit FSX while flying (at such amount of altitude), rather, I use to save the flight after getting into the gate, running shutdown checklist, etc, and just then I quit FSX...

virtuali

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Re: Disappearing AI in Honolulu FSX
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2014, 02:38:37 pm »
What annoys me is the fact that occasionally I get the shadows disabled "forever" I don't know why and how, that's why I created the batch file.

As I've said, your airplane shadows would be disabled permanently in the following cases:

- You ended the flight when the airplane was over an FSDT scenery at an higher altitude than the shadow-cutting threshold altitude for that scenery.

- You saved a startup flight over an FSDT scenery, in air.

- FSX crashed, so it couldn't save the updated FSX.CFG. If FSX crashes, any changes made to the FSX.CFG won't be saved.