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News: GSX Released!
 
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Author Topic: GSX Preview 2 - Catering vehicle  (Read 15317 times)
cowings1588
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« Reply #30 on: March 14, 2011, 11:15:50 PM »

Nice!

But I donīt like, that the cars drive on the taxiway and not on the service road.


Don't you mean the Zipper road..  Smiley

The Zipper road is where we drive on...
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Bill
cowings1588
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« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2011, 11:20:50 PM »

Here's a little real world info. DFW is an uncontrolled ramp. Those of us who work there call it an out of control ramp. Although there are designated vehicle driving lanes, they are not always used. Sometimes it's a free for all on the ramp between vehicles and aircraft. Shocked

Wow, thats interesting.. I didn't know that, I thought most all major airports had the Zipper road.. Your still suppose to yield to Aircraft though.. Aren't you.. I mean they should have first gibs on going through.. lol There bigger than a Tug or belt loader..  lol  Smiley

Thats very interesting to know though.. Cool.. I always thought if DTW had zipper road, that most all other major airports did too..
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Bill
cowings1588
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« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2011, 11:33:31 PM »

Damn! This just looks amazing... this could actually make me switch to FSX Cheesy

Just curious here, Umberto...
What specs is the computer, you using to create these previews? Animation/quality looks very smooth!

Thanks again, for the 'sneak-peak'...

Switch.. I did & its well worth it.. The ground actually looks wet when it rains, Its awsome.. I like it better than FS9..  I could never go back to FS9 now.. I love FSX.. It has so much more to offer than FS9.. Just gotta make sure to do like I did & thats save your money & buy you a top of the line PC that will handle all the graphics & scenery & so on..

I have a Gateway with an i5 Intel Core Processor, 8 GB ram, 1 TB hard Drive, NIVIDIA graphics card.. I made sure to spruce mine up before switching over...  I'm getting all my airplanes together.. Its a slow tideous process getting built back up but Lord I'm going to have so much more fun with this one than I did with FS9 & I had alot of fun with that one.. This one though offers so much more & much more realism... Trust me.. Switch, you'll be happy you did..  Smiley
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Bill
cowings1588
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« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2011, 11:44:22 PM »

My simulator shudders every time AI calls a jetway, don't give them catering trucks too.   Wink

Maybe its time to think about, looking into a higher end computer if can afford it sometime..  Just a suggestion.. I used my income tax money 2 yrs ago now to get my Gateway with the Intel Core i5 Processor, 8 GB Ram, 1 TB hard Drive, NVIDIA GEFORCE GT220 1024 MB with Windows 7 64 bit...  Mine cost me like around mid 800 dollar range.. Watch HSN both tv & internet.. You can get good deals on one & pay the easy pay where you just pay monthly payments on it until you pay it off...
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Bill
Bruce Hamilton
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« Reply #34 on: March 15, 2011, 02:49:33 PM »

My Core 2 Duo runs FSX just fine, thank you very much.   Wink
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JamesChams
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« Reply #35 on: March 15, 2011, 07:07:39 PM »

Will it work with AI-Traffic?

Well, in theory it could. But not without killing the fps...just to give you an idea, the human show in the video is not our final model, it's just a testing model, and it's about 1500 polygons, which is very low, and it's the absolute minimum to create a believable animated human. The characters in the final version will be about 4000 polygons each, and that's just the human, you then have to add the vehicle it relates to. Then, you might have several vehicles active at the same time, sometimes even in multiple copies, if the airplane has multiple cargo/service doors. And, you have several classes of vehicles visible at the same time. Let's not even start discussing *passengers*, because that would be a whole lot of polygons more.

And, this was just around the *user* airplane...if you start servicing AI, you can imagine what will happen.
Virtuali,
Could you perhaps make it (GSX's AI-traffic features) possible for say one or two AI aircraft, nearby the user aircraft, to get services? Visually that would be quite impressive and definitely be a *big* selling point when compared to AES or others products.  Thus, this would be a feature that users can check on/off from your interface and that way higher-end system users would have the benefits of such features and others who don't want it (for FPS/performance issues, etc.) could choose not to have it.  It doesn't have to be for every AI but maybe a slider (of some sort) from 1 to say 10 - AI near the user's aircraft.

Would that be a possibility, without *killing* everyone's systems?
« Last Edit: March 15, 2011, 07:10:32 PM by JamesChams » Logged

"Walk with the wise and become wise; associate with fools and get in trouble.” (Prov.13:20 NIV)
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virtuali
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« Reply #36 on: March 16, 2011, 03:09:44 PM »

It doesn't have to be for every AI but maybe a slider (of some sort) from 1 to say 10 - AI near the user's aircraft.

Would that be a possibility, without *killing* everyone's systems?

The base used technology obviously doesn't make any difference between the user airplane or an AI airplane. However, we are making it for the user airplane only because there are other limitations in the FSX animation system which do not allow too many copies of the same vehicle to be independently animated. So no GSX for AI.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 03:21:39 PM by virtuali » Logged

Umberto Colapicchioni
http://www.virtualisoftware.com
JamesChams
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« Reply #37 on: March 20, 2011, 06:17:33 AM »

Virtuali,
... However, we are making it for the user airplane only because there are other limitations in the FSX animation system which do not allow too many copies of the same vehicle to be independently animated....
So, multiple instances of an (the same) object are NOT permitted in the FSX animation system?  Isn't that usually handeled with memory addressing for multiple instances if an object, especially in modern day OOP developed apps, like FSX?  I'd be curious to know what/where this limitation is documented or was it discovered during your test(s)?

Anyway, it was an idea; perhaps somebody else will perfect a way to do that, just to be competitive with their product on the market.
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"Walk with the wise and become wise; associate with fools and get in trouble.” (Prov.13:20 NIV)
Thank you very much.
Sincerely,
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  James F. Chams

virtuali
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« Reply #38 on: March 20, 2011, 08:10:08 AM »

So, multiple instances of an (the same) object are NOT permitted in the FSX animation system?

I never said that. I said there are limitations, which obviously have circumvented in some ways, but it still remains tricky. However, nowhere I've said we'll not have multiple instances of the same object, because we'll have it. It will only become more and more complex, if we also had to service AI in addition to the user airplane.

Quote
Isn't that usually handeled with memory addressing for multiple instances if an object, especially in modern day OOP developed apps, like FSX?

Memory and pointers doesn't have anything to do with it, it's more a limitation of how FSX handles vehicles.

Quote
I'd be curious to know what/where this limitation is documented or was it discovered during your test(s)?

Nothing is expressly or specifically "documented" in this field, according to the SDK, the only customization possible for ground vehicles is replacing their visual models globally, by replacing the Living World XML file. Everything else it's just deduction by putting together different part of the SDK, experimenting, and of course some reverse engineering...

Quote
Anyway, it was an idea; perhaps somebody else will perfect a way to do that, just to be competitive with their product on the market.

We already have perfect it enough to what it makes sense and are already quite competitive on the market, and I doubt someone will ever try to undertook the same task, after GSX is released. As I've explained (many times already), the big work in GSX is NOT the animations (users tend to focus on them, because that's what impact most on videos), but having to write and test an entire OOP language under FSX, and put it to use to allow the flexibility we needed to make GSX working on all airports, and to support any airport/airplane, without having to manually support each one.
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Umberto Colapicchioni
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Thralni
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« Reply #39 on: March 20, 2011, 11:28:19 AM »

Oh my god, this is simply amazing! The guy actually walks into the plane! Wow, you guys are incredible.
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max767
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« Reply #40 on: March 21, 2011, 12:49:41 AM »

Good news to see animations within GSX. This will further boost realism with FSX. I work around airports and fly in and out of them almost everday, its my life Smiley I've been a FSDT fan for a while and everthing you guys produce is smack on it. Splitting images of all airports to date, kudos FSDT and wish you all much success with future projects.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2011, 03:28:20 AM by max767 » Logged
JamesChams
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« Reply #41 on: March 22, 2011, 04:09:53 AM »

Virtuali,
...
Quote
Isn't that usually handeled with memory addressing for multiple instances if an object, especially in modern day OOP developed apps, like FSX?

Memory and pointers doesn't have anything to do with it, it's more a limitation of how FSX handles vehicles.

Quote
Anyway, it was an idea; perhaps somebody else will perfect a way to do that, just to be competitive with their product on the market.

We already have perfect it enough to what it makes sense and are already quite competitive on the market, and I doubt someone will ever try to undertook the same task, after GSX is released. As I've explained (many times already), the big work in GSX is NOT the animations (users tend to focus on them, because that's what impact most on videos), but having to write and test an entire OOP language under FSX, and put it to use to allow the flexibility we needed to make GSX working on all airports, and to support any airport/airplane, without having to manually support each one.
That's what many users/developers were saying about weapons system in FSX not too long ago and now we have CS Weapons already released with updates forthcoming, VRS's TACPack (soon to be released), MilViz's own integrated weapons systems for their upcoming projects, RAZBAM's are in the works with something similar, and still a few FREEWARE developers are at is as well.  So, what if I told you that someone was already working on USER & AI "GSX" like features, would you still doubt the importance of what I'm requesting or is this purely something you cannot consider until after the initial releases?

Also, what exactly is "more a limitation of how FSX handles vehicles" rather then how OOP's/OS' Memory management of instances of objects in a 32-bit app.'s limitation could be?   If your programmed SimConnect interface is replacing the default handeling of this key aspect of FSX and it runs on multi-cores, you are no longer running into the old 32-bit app. limitations of memory/performance management which shouldn't negatively affect FPS a whole lot more.  The only thing that might be affected negatively is video/graphics handeling and you've already got ADM to tweak that; so why not add this as an addition to it as well?

After all, going "outside the limitations" of MS' initial release(s) was initially an intended aspect of their improved SimConnect implementation in FSX over any previous FS version.  All the major developments today are breaking past those barriers and your's (GSX) is definitely one of them, in many aspects; my compliments for that Cool.   But, it will be surpassed in this area (GSX for AI) by others eventually and you can "take that to the bank." Wink

Ciao! Smiley
« Last Edit: March 22, 2011, 04:13:04 AM by JamesChams » Logged

"Walk with the wise and become wise; associate with fools and get in trouble.” (Prov.13:20 NIV)
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virtuali
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« Reply #42 on: March 22, 2011, 12:08:35 PM »

That's what many users/developers were saying about weapons system in FSX not too long ago and now we have CS Weapons already released with updates forthcoming, VRS's TACPack (soon to be released), MilViz's own integrated weapons systems for their upcoming projects, RAZBAM's are in the works with something similar, and still a few FREEWARE developers are at is as well.

We never said that. There are no limitation in FSX that prevent creation of weapons, it's quite complex stuff, but it IS supported and doable with what FSX can do. Anyone that said there were FSX limitations that prevented weapons, was wrong right from the start. As was wrong anyone who said humans weren't possible in FSX: it was *obvious* humans were possible, as soon as we saw the infamous walking zebras and elephants, which everybody joked about it when FSX was released...

Quote
So, what if I told you that someone was already working on USER & AI "GSX" like features, would you still doubt the importance of what I'm requesting or is this purely something you cannot consider until after the initial releases?

I think to have already said, quite clearly, it doesn't make ANY difference to GSX, if the serviced airplane is user or AI.

Quote
Also, what exactly is "more a limitation of how FSX handles vehicles" rather then how OOP's/OS' Memory management of instances of objects in a 32-bit app.'s limitation could be?

As I've said, 32 bits or 64 bits doesn't have anything to do with this. And memory management even less. It's just that FSX doesn't make it EASY (and I NEVER said "impossible") to have many instance of the same object, but not because of ANY of the reasons you mentioned. It's just lot of more work, and forces to in-elegant programming, but is doable.

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you are no longer running into the old 32-bit app

32 bit limitation doesn't have anything to do with this, regardless how many times you repeat it. And besides, since the Addon Manager + Couatl are FSX module, they'll always be 32 bit, as long FSX itself remains 32 bit. But of course, this is irrelevant, since GSX takes very little RAM to run.

Quote
The only thing that might be affected negatively is video/graphics handeling and you've already got ADM to tweak that; so why not add this as an addition to it as well?

Yes, the major impact of so many vehicles on AI is on the graphic card.

Once you have humans in, the polygon count HAS to go up.  Even if GSX vehicles are *way* more complex than, let's say, AES ones or the vehicles we used so far on our sceneries, it might be possible to get away by simpler versions of them, just for AI use. However, it will NOT work for humans because, to have "bones" animations working believably for humans, they should have a minimum amount of polygons, otherwise the skin deformation will just look bad. AND, bones animation is not "free", which is why Ultimate Traffic lets you disable moving jetways on its AI models to increase fps, and a jetway is just 2-3 bones, an human is up to 22 and we use all of them.

Quote
But, it will be surpassed in this area (GSX for AI) by others eventually and you can "take that to the bank."

Yes, it will probably surpassed by GSX 2.0...

OF COURSE, if GSX will be successful. If not, we don't care at all of someone else will "surpass" it...which is why it doesn't make any sense trying to hit to for the moon (=put *everything* in the first version), if we still don't know if the product interest enough people to make it commercially feasible.

In any case, as with ANY of our products, we don't want to do something that will halve fps once installed, because users are not able to restrain themselves: if they see a complexity slider, they always put it all the way to the right, and complain "that product is an fps killer"
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Umberto Colapicchioni
http://www.virtualisoftware.com
simmrx
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« Reply #43 on: April 03, 2011, 09:47:36 PM »

Hello I'm very impressed with GSX (can't wait!) and would like to add a request. I'm not sure if you also have shuttle buses for passengers, if not I would like if you did thanks.

I have another wish for the future: Ever considered doing a program providing passengers for the interior of 3rd party planes? These days there are so many beautiful interiors of these planes but the're empty!

Can you think up a way to solve this so users can use your (future utility) to add passengers & pilots inside the plane. That's for the wish list. Thanks.

Simmrx
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cowings1588
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« Reply #44 on: April 04, 2011, 02:45:41 AM »

Nice!

But I donīt like, that the cars drive on the taxiway and not on the service road.



Yea but like someone said before.. At DFW I don't think they necessarily drive on the zipper road like there suppose too, because he made mention that its crazy out there at DFW..
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Bill
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