Author Topic: Sludge/Combat Hornet Integrator - Released  (Read 247616 times)

nicka117

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Re: Sludge/Combat Hornet Integrator - Released
« Reply #255 on: July 21, 2011, 12:27:28 am »
JIMI...

Im at work, but have a few questions to ask the Hornet driver when you get back to class.  What do they fly the pattern at?  150 or Yellow donut, whatever it higher?  Or at whatever speed to maintain interval?  Also, do they use rudder IN-THE-PATTERN or during the approach phase? Or both? Whats a common abeam length?


Ok, this is the response I got:

1)      The pattern is always flown on-speed (yellow donut) with minor changes only used for interval correction.

2)      We never use rudder in the pattern.  The hornet is fly-by-wire and has an amazing flight control computer that we can only confuse if we use rudder.  The rudder in the hornet is used for tactical maneuvers or emergencies only.

3)      The Standard abeam length for a vintage hornet is 1.3-1.5 miles.

Hope this helps.

My dad said they never used rudder in the pattern either and his aircraft weren't fly-by-wire (A-3, A-7, F-4). So I guess no rudder regardless.

He said the A-3 was by far the hardest to get aboard, had to be super smooth. It would float through the glide slope, and he'd keep pulling off power, and then it would fall through the glide slope, and the engines would take forever to spool back up. And, the A-3 had asymetrical thrust issues with the engines so far apart. He would get a yaw rate developed on final, but he didn't correct with rudder--he would just stagger the throttles.

When he went to A-7's, the LSO said he was trying to be way too smooth. he said to man-handle it more: if you're high, don't finese it down, dump the nose and power immediately and reestablish with the counter corrections.

And then the F-4, by far the easiest behind the boat. He said it glided like a safe, and the power was so instaneous and enormous that essentially the meatball was attached to the throttle.

neutrino

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Re: Sludge/Combat Hornet Integrator - Released
« Reply #256 on: July 21, 2011, 02:31:35 pm »
... and the power was so instaneous and enormous that essentially the meatball was attached to the throttle.

Nice ;D

Sludge

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Re: Sludge/Combat Hornet Integrator - Released
« Reply #257 on: July 21, 2011, 07:33:03 pm »
Nicka...

Thanks for the additional information.  Always good to hear from old school pilots, pre- fly-by-wire days... somethings (no rudder in pattern) always stay the same, eh?

Everyone...

This brings up a question in regards to Rudder on final approach.  I know NO RUDDER in the pattern and that makes sense, but since there are LSO annotations for Rudder corrections, is rudder used on final?  In the LSO Manual there's NERR (not-enough-right-rudder) and TMRR (too-much-right-rudder) etc.  Is that a left-over from the non- fly-by-wire jets (Tomcat, S-3, EA-6Bs) or is that also used with Hornets? If someone (Nicka asking your Pops or JIMI asking the Hornet guy) could find out a real world answer, would be much appreciated.

Later
Sludge
« Last Edit: July 21, 2011, 07:35:40 pm by Sludge »

nicka117

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Re: Sludge/Combat Hornet Integrator - Released
« Reply #258 on: July 21, 2011, 08:20:35 pm »
Nicka...

Thanks for the additional information.  Always good to hear from old school pilots, pre- fly-by-wire days... somethings (no rudder in pattern) always stay the same, eh?

Everyone...

This brings up a question in regards to Rudder on final approach.  I know NO RUDDER in the pattern and that makes sense, but since there are LSO annotations for Rudder corrections, is rudder used on final?  In the LSO Manual there's NERR (not-enough-right-rudder) and TMRR (too-much-right-rudder) etc.  Is that a left-over from the non- fly-by-wire jets (Tomcat, S-3, EA-6Bs) or is that also used with Hornets? If someone (Nicka asking your Pops or JIMI asking the Hornet guy) could find out a real world answer, would be much appreciated.

Later
Sludge

CORRECTION! CORRECTION! Sorry guys, I was telling you what I "remember" him saying. I just chatted with him. They did indeed use rudder with jets and props (he has carrier landings w/ S-2, A-4, A-3, A-7, F-4). He used it for final approaches for slight center line adjustments and assymetrical thrust adjustments.....but very little and not very much.

And, he calls all the new guys "HUD cripples."

wilycoyote4

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Re: Sludge/Combat Hornet Integrator - Released
« Reply #259 on: July 21, 2011, 09:06:05 pm »
Quote
And, he calls all the new guys "HUD cripples."

lol

neutrino

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Re: Sludge/Combat Hornet Integrator - Released
« Reply #260 on: July 21, 2011, 10:12:39 pm »
And, he calls all the new guys "HUD cripples."

That's me ;D That's why I will train some carrier landings without HUD - no velocity vector, no speed indication, no ILS - just meatball and AOA indexer. I can even start at the abeam position and I will post a video with the results.  The video will be recorded live with Fraps. This will be a nice challenge and it can happen in real life with HUD failure 8)
« Last Edit: July 21, 2011, 10:22:18 pm by neutrino »

nicka117

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Re: Sludge/Combat Hornet Integrator - Released
« Reply #261 on: July 21, 2011, 10:58:16 pm »
And, he calls all the new guys "HUD cripples."

That's me ;D That's why I will train some carrier landings without HUD - no velocity vector, no speed indication, no ILS - just meatball and AOA indexer. I can even start at the abeam position and I will post a video with the results.  The video will be recorded live with Fraps. This will be a nice challenge and it can happen in real life with HUD failure 8)

Would love to see it Neutrino. Maybe I can learn something!

Sludge

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Re: Sludge/Combat Hornet Integrator - Released
« Reply #262 on: July 22, 2011, 05:18:30 am »
Fellas...

Quote
That's me. That's why I will train some carrier landings without HUD - no velocity vector, no speed indication, no ILS - just meatball and AOA indexer.

(EA-6Bs do it like this ALL THE TIME.  They have NO HUD and still land Meatball and AoA.)

Quote
I can even start at the abeam position and I will post a video with the results.  The video will be recorded live with Fraps. This will be a nice challenge and it can happen in real life with HUD failure

Thats a challenge.  Who can do the best passes WITH the HUD, then WITHOUT the HUD.  Gotta at least have a baseline to start and see who can do it with the HUD first. It'll be a good way to pass the time 'til we get Serge's mission.

Later
Sludge

nicka117

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Re: Sludge/Combat Hornet Integrator - Released
« Reply #263 on: July 22, 2011, 10:56:12 pm »
Hey guys, with the HUD symbols, is it possible to have the velocity vector above the "horizon line" and still have an FPM rate of decent. I'm getting that quite a bit and it's harder to maintain altitude in the pattern, especially in the turns. The velocity vector is hanging above the 0 degree horizon, and it still might say -150 FPM.

neutrino

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Re: Sludge/Combat Hornet Integrator - Released
« Reply #264 on: July 22, 2011, 11:46:21 pm »
If the velocity vector is on the horizon line, this means your altitude is not changing, even though you may see a non-zero reading on the vsi. The vsi indicator is measuring changes in air pressure to determine the vertical speed and has some built in inertia, while the velocity vector uses instantaneous vertical speed and does not depend on pressure measurements. When the vsi is steady, both methods will produce the same result.

nicka117

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Re: Sludge/Combat Hornet Integrator - Released
« Reply #265 on: July 22, 2011, 11:52:12 pm »
thanks Neutrino

heyvern69

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Re: Sludge/Combat Hornet Integrator - Released
« Reply #266 on: July 23, 2011, 06:43:09 pm »
Sludge,

I just wanted to say "Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU!!!" for all the hard work you (and others) have been doing to make the Hornet fly better in FSX. My friends & I LOVE flying the Sludge Hornet!

I posted a few FSX multiplayer carrier landing videos on facebook of our flying with your Hornet & Dino's T-45.  We're not real pilots . . . so we are loose in our carrier procedures.  But our landings are getting better!

If you (or anyone) wants to see these landing videos . . . next time you are logged into facebook . . . simply search for "San Diego Simflite". Note: "flite" is purposely misspelled.  Scroll down and you'll see the videos.

One of the videos shows us flying online with a mixture of old & new Sludge Hornets, so you see an unusual vapor trail coming off the nose of the old Hornets, an odd by-product of us using old & new Sludge planes online.

Some of my friends are a little older, so I'm not having them update to your newest Sludge Hornet until all your modifications are done and finalized, because installing 1 final product will be easier than constantly helping a few of these older gentlemen upgrade little-by-little.  I'm looking forward to the final product with all your fantastic work in one big package.

Thanks again for all your amazing work.  We love it.

-Vern
Again, you can find my carrier landing vid(s) by "San Diego Simflite" on facebook



 

neutrino

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Re: Sludge/Combat Hornet Integrator - Released
« Reply #267 on: July 23, 2011, 09:11:20 pm »
Vern, I checked the videos - great fun ;D We should sometimes get together and set a record for a number of players on the carrier and of course do some serious carrier ops ;) We can easily get 4 people and with your wingmen we will be like 10 people ::)

Orion

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Re: Sludge/Combat Hornet Integrator - Released
« Reply #268 on: July 24, 2011, 02:02:43 am »
Do you have the video uploaded somewhere else, such as YouTube or Vimeo, for those that don't use Facebook? :P

SpazSinbad

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Re: Sludge/Combat Hornet Integrator - Released
« Reply #269 on: July 24, 2011, 02:11:02 am »
Orion, thanks. Good idea. I'm no FaceBook user either.
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