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Author Topic: Amsterdam (Demo) causes FS9 to CTD  (Read 6686 times)
martinlest
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« on: November 28, 2010, 05:07:40 PM »

I thought I would buy the Cloud9 Amsterdam scenery so downloaded the file and installed it (Windows 7 64-bit). The scenery loads fine and looks good, but when I shut down FS9(.1) and try to start FS9 again, the programme closes about 20 seconds into the splash screen. I can only run FS9 again by removing the bglman files. I have uninstalled the scenery (including the scenery addon manager) and reinstalled it five times now, with the same result: on first run after a new installation, I get to EHAM and all the scenery shows; after that I cannot restart FS9, it just shuts down. I have no other Cloud9 or FSDT airports installed.

I see I am not the only one with this issue: I have searched this forum and read through these posts (there are maybe more):

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=2085.0
http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=2641.0

and have followed the advice there. I had already set my anti-virus so that it ignores the FS9/modules folder, and I don't get any warning about bglman.dll when I install the scenery. I have tried copying all the bglman files that appear after a first successful install to a backup and overwriting the new ones that appear when I try to run FS9 a second time (all but bglman.dll get a later file date). I have also downloaded the files form here, and done the same thing, but this doesn't help, FS9 still disappears on a second run after installation:

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/download/setup/bglman/release_mscd/bglman.dll
http://www.fsdreamteam.com/download/setup/bglman/bglman.dat
http://www.fsdreamteam.com/download/setup/bglman/bglman_fsdt.dat
http://www.fsdreamteam.com/download/setup/bglman/bglman_skymakers.dat
http://www.fsdreamteam.com/download/setup/bglman/bglman_qwings.dat

I have one esellerateengine.dll file, in the C:\ProgramData\Esellerate folder. It is the same file version (3.6.5) as the one in your download link:

http://www.virtualisoftware.com/binaries/eSellerateEngine.dll

BTW, 'virtuali', in the second of the above posts, says "Please, do not use the C9 installers, they will just mess your system again, and you'll be back are to start from scratch." Not sure what that means. Maybe it's not for EHAM? I have downloaded a file called cloud9_eham_fs9_setup.exe..

So why does the scenery work at first then make it so that I can't run FS any more? Must be the bglman files, but I don't know what else to do, other than what I have said above. I would like this file, partly because there is not a great choice for FS9/EHAM - and the scenery looks great on each 'first run'; also because, seeing the at the airport worked immediately after installation, I stupidly 'wasted' (so far at least) five AES credits to get AES working there (and it does). But I have now spent almost 6 hours trying to get this one scenery to install. If you FSDT (or anyone) can help so that I will get the airport every time and the installation will 'noble' my FS9 setup, I'll go ahead and buy it. As it is, I am rather 'disappointed' (shall we say?!).

There are other issues with this scenery, even on first run, but I'll post those separately, if and when I ever get the scenery working as it should.

Thank you,

Martin



« Last Edit: November 28, 2010, 07:04:42 PM by virtuali » Logged
virtuali
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« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2010, 07:30:34 PM »

I see I am not the only one with this issue: I have searched this forum and read through these posts (there are maybe more):

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=2085.0

No. This post is a different issue than yours, because the user never managed to run FS9 without a crash, not even the first time. He never posted again to say what happened next so, we don't know if he fixed it or not, but it was the same problem as yours.

You are saying that your FS9 DOES works with the Addon Manager installed, but only once.

In fact, this problem looks more like the 2nd link you posted:

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=2641.0

But it was proven in the end it was an antivirus problem, in this case the antivirus didn't warned the user, but made FS9 crash without any security warning. This was solved by correctly configuring the antivirus.

Quote
I had already set my anti-virus so that it ignores the FS9/modules folder, and I don't get any warning about bglman.dll when I install the scenery.

As explained in ALL thread, this is NOT enough. It's not enough to just exclude the FS9\modules folder. This is required, but not enough because, for the Addon Manager files to go there in the first place, you need to first allow their *installation*

Since during installation, they are copied from a temporary folder with a random name, and excluding the whole Windows %TEMP% folder is a HUGE security hole, you HAVE to turn the antivirus ENTIRELY OFF when installing, in order to allow the current files to be copied in the FS9\modules folder, that will ALSO need to be excluded, for when you turn the antivirus back on.

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I have tried copying all the bglman files that appear after a first successful install

If you are not turning off the antivirus entirely when installing, you'll never get a successful install in the first place.

Quote
I have also downloaded the files form here, and done the same thing, but this doesn't help, FS9 still disappears on a second run after installation

If you are not turning off the antivirus entirely when doing this, your download will be blocked as well.

Quote
BTW, 'virtuali', in the second of the above posts, says "Please, do not use the C9 installers, they will just mess your system again, and you'll be back are to start from scratch." Not sure what that means

It means installers for C9 products made by Cloud9, before we took over their support. Some people might still have old C9 installers, but we updated some, which includes EHAM. Our Cloud9 Web page indicates which installers have being updated by FSDT so, if you just downloaded EHAM, this doesn't concern you, because your installer it's not a C9 one.

Quote
So why does the scenery work at first then make it so that I can't run FS any more?

Because something is changing them. It's even possible you might have a real virus that attacks executable code the first time is launched, which is very common.

We can verify if this is the case, this way, please do EXACTLY as asked:

Install this utility here:

http://code.kliu.org/hashcheck/downloads/HashCheckInstall-latest.exe

It's a small shell extension that can be used to verify file integrity. After installing it, do the following:

- TURN YOUR ANTIVIRUS OFF, and never turn it on for the time being

- Download the files from here:

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/download/setup/bglman/release_mscd/bglman.dll
http://www.fsdreamteam.com/download/setup/bglman/bglman.dat
http://www.fsdreamteam.com/download/setup/bglman/bglman_fsdt.dat
http://www.fsdreamteam.com/download/setup/bglman/bglman_skymakers.dat
http://www.fsdreamteam.com/download/setup/bglman/bglman_qwings.dat

Copy them in the FS9\modules folder, and immediately check the MD5 checksum for each file you downloaded. You can check the checksum, by right-clicking on each file, and selecting "Properties", then the "Checksums" tab, with several checksums will be listed. Note of the resulting MD5 checksum.

Now, with the antivirus still OFF, run FS9. According to your description of the problem, it should run fine at least once.

Immediately after you quit FS9, check the MD5 checksums for the bglman*.* files again, and be sure it hasn't changed. If it has, you can be fairly sure you HAVE something (most likely a virus) that is changing the files. It can't be the antivirus, since you still have it off at this time.

If the checksum is the same for ALL files, try running FS9 again, still with the antivirus OFF. It's possible it will run again.

If it ran twice in a row this time, try a 3rd launch, this time with the antivirus ON (but of course, with the FS9\modules folder excluded!). Exit, and check the checksums again. If they differ, then you can be sure it's the ANTIVIRUS that is modifying the files, probably trying to "heal" them, but in fact is corrupting them. This would indicate your exclusion somehow didn't work.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2010, 07:32:55 PM by virtuali » Logged

martinlest
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« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2010, 10:49:58 AM »

Hi. Thanks for the reply.

I made sure my AGV anti-virus was off by booting in Safe Mode and changing the AVG main folder name. On a reboot into normal mode the system cannot now find the AVG folder and anti-virus does not start - there is no AVG icon in my system tray and no AVG processes running in Task manager.

First I again downloaded all the bglman files from the download link. Then copied the checksum information for each. Next, I installed Amsterdam EHAM. Then noted the checksum again. All were the same apart from bglman.dll - the original, downloaded checksum for this file was:

  File: bglman.dll
CRC-32: 12e3a8da
   MD4: 99aee3b87f0b21925f0684fe5b2ce7ee
   MD5: bd674bb70b945c44e77b3907fa46705d
 SHA-1: 2562ff936013e5fea701b00f4ff566f29ba4cc45

The Amsterdam installer replaces this with one with the following checksum:

  File: bglman.dll
CRC-32: 54c93951
   MD4: b719ee2d8183998e1e64bf692d860df9
   MD5: 773284aefad8cd7c46a677f59561ed0f
 SHA-1: b35db0d115a684de97680d02ba973472e2849c59

I ran the scenery and the airport opens fine: I noted the checksum of the bglman.dll file - still as the second entry above. But as before, closing FS9 and restarting it just results in the programme closing about 20 seconds into the splash screen. The checksum of the bglman.dll file after FS9 closes down is still the same as the second entry above.

I tried replacing the new bglman.dll file with the one from the download, but FS9 still closes down when I try to run it - the checksum of bglman.dll is still the first entry here (the downloaded one I had just copied back to the modules folder).

Is it right that the Amsterdam installer is replacing the bglman.dll file that I downloaded? Is this the cause of the problem? It certainly seems that the problem is related to this file.

Martin



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virtuali
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« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2010, 11:08:25 AM »

I made sure my AGV anti-virus was off by booting in Safe Mode and changing the AVG main folder name. On a reboot into normal mode the system cannot now find the AVG folder and anti-virus does not start - there is no AVG icon in my system tray and no AVG processes running in Task manager.

That's not enough. First, because antivirus always install crucial files in shared or system folders and not in their own. And, because the processes in the Task Manager are not what makes the real-time protection so, everything you made is basically useless to stop interfering.

The only way is to either going into the antivirus interface and turn off the real-time protection off OR, to go into the Control Panel, under Admin Tool, under Services, and turn off all the antivirus Services.

Quote
Is it right that the Amsterdam installer is replacing the bglman.dll file that I downloaded? Is this the cause of the problem? It certainly seems that the problem is related to this file.

There's no problem with both versions of the file, and no problem with bglmanx.dll. There are TWO version of the .dll available online: one that's compatible with the original FS9.EXE with the CD protection, and another that isn't. The installer will detect which FS9.EXE you have and install a different version depending on that. I've made you to download the version that is compatible with the original FS9.EXE since this works with both versions anyway, but the installer select the version instead, that's why the checksum is different, but it's alright.

Also, from your description of the problem, it doesn't look like that anything is *changing* it after it ran once because, regardless of the version, the checksum stays the same, even after a single FS9 run.

This leaves with just this explanation: the antivirus is not *changing* the file, but it still blocking it, after FS9 runs once, and is doing it without any warning. Which is exactly what happened in the other one user that had the same problem in the post you linked before.

There are other couple of things you can check:

- Check the md5 checksums for the bglman*.dat files as well, and post it here so we can verify they are correct as well

- Search all your hard drive for the esellerateengine.dll file, and verify there's ONLY one copy at C:\ProgramData\Esellerate. If you have other copies in any other locations, remove them all.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2010, 11:12:08 AM by virtuali » Logged

martinlest
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« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2010, 02:24:48 PM »

OK, so there's no quibble about anti-virus I uninstalled the AVG programme completely. There is currently no anti-virus programme on my PC.

But I think I may have found the source of the problem: I have been double-checking that I only have one copy of eSellerateEngine.dll, in the C:\ProgramData\Esellerate folder. When there is only one file present I can run FS9 and access EHAM as many times as I like. The problem is that, each time I run FS9 it adds another copy of eSellerateEngine.dll to C:\Windows. Starting FS9 with that file in place causes FS to shut off. If I restart FS9, the same thing happens. If I go back and delete the file in C:\Windows, then FS9 runs fine and I can open the airport. But once again, by running FS9 another copy of the dll file appears in C:\Windows.

All this, as I say, is with no anti-virus installed, so that is clearly not the cause of the CTDs, it's the second dll file that's doing it. But short of the 'sticking plaster job' of writing some convoluted script to delete the file each time FS9 runs (I could do that but it hardly fixes the root of the problem), I don't see how to solve this.

A pity Cloud9 wrote their installer like this - I have airports from Aerosoft, UK2000, VisualFlight amongst several others that run just fine.

I hope you can suggest a fix to this problem. What I don't understand is why, if the FS9 CTD is caused by two eSellerateEngine.dll files, and FS9 is creating the second, why everyone is not having this problem.

Is it OK to reinstall my anti-virus now, or is there more troubleshooting I need to do whilst it is uninstalled?
« Last Edit: November 29, 2010, 03:15:49 PM by virtuali » Logged
virtuali
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« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2010, 03:30:19 PM »

But I think I may have found the source of the problem: I have been double-checking that I only have one copy of eSellerateEngine.dll, in the C:\ProgramData\Esellerate folder.

Which, in fact, was on the possible causes I've mentioned.

Quote
The problem is that, each time I run FS9 it adds another copy of eSellerateEngine.dll to C:\Windows. Starting FS9 with that file in place causes FS to shut off. If I restart FS9, the same thing happens. If I go back and delete the file in C:\Windows, then FS9 runs fine and I can open the airport. But once again, by running FS9 another copy of the dll file appears in C:\Windows.

It simply shouldn't do it.

More precisely, the correct location for the esellerateengine.dll is:

C:\Windows ONLY under XP
C:\ProgramData\ ONLY under Vista or Win7

Is it possible that you are running FS9 into an "XP Compatibility" mode ? In this case, you are fooling the program to believe it's running in XP, which is why is copying the .dll in the folder that was right for XP only, but then it doesn't work, since that .DLL is not supposed to be there under Vista/Win7

Quote
A pity Cloud9 wrote their installer like this - I have airports from Aerosoft, UK2000, VisualFlight amongst several others that run just fine.

First, if you are using an old Cloud9 installer, then it's normal they wrote it this way, since there was no Vista or Win7 when EHAM was released so, C:\Windows was the one and only correct place to put that file there.

If, instead, you are using the FSDT installer, then it DOESN'T DO this on its own. It *correctly* checks the OS version FIRST, THEN it copies the .dll in the correct folder for the OS in use. And the same at runtime.

The issue is, if you switched to a Compatibility mode, the program really believes it's running under XP, so that behavior is to be expected.

Quote
I hope you can suggest a fix to this problem. What I don't understand is why, if the FS9 CTD is caused by two eSellerateEngine.dll files, and FS9 is creating the second, why everyone is not having this problem.

Is the problem is the Compatibilty mode, there's nothing to fix or that can be fixed, since it's not an error, it's just something that is entirely out of control of the program, you simply have to switch off XP Compatibility mode, which is the best option anyway for running FS9 under Win7.

Quote
Is it OK to reinstall my anti-virus now, or is there more troubleshooting I need to do whilst it is uninstalled?

I think you can safely reinstall the antivirus, just keep the FS9\Modules exclusion.
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martinlest
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« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2010, 06:02:33 PM »

Hi. Thanks for the answer. Yes, I know it was on your list of possible causes: I've checked several times that there was only one, and there was, at least according to the search results I got back. I now see that Windows 7 search feature is unreliable at best - I have indexing on for the whole C drive, but even when, as a test, I point to the C:\ProgramData\Esellerate folder itself and search for the dll file, Windows doesn't find it. I have installed a 3rd. party replacement search programme which works perfectly -and now I see the second dll file in the Windows folder. Also, as I sometimes did a system restore between test installations (to clear the registry of C9 entries), on those occasions the eSellerateEngine.dll may indeed not have been there, removed by the restore. Well, be that as it may .....

One of the pieces of FS software I use wasn't installing properly either (completely different scenario) and the manufacturer told me to run FS9 on the 'as an administrator' setting. That box was checked, but just in case, I unchecked it: the XP etc. compatibility box is not checked, but even so, every time I start FS9 a new copy of eSellerateEngine.dll appears in the Windows folder. I have absolutely no idea why. I tried using a backed up copy of the fs9.exe file, just in case the first was corrupt, but I get the same result.

I am using the installer for EHAM downloaded from the FSDT website BTW.

Martin
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virtuali
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« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2010, 07:23:59 PM »

One of the pieces of FS software I use wasn't installing properly either (completely different scenario) and the manufacturer told me to run FS9 on the 'as an administrator' setting. That box was checked, but just in case, I unchecked it: the XP etc. compatibility box is not checked, but even so, every time I start FS9 a new copy of eSellerateEngine.dll appears in the Windows folder.

Could be you are using ANOTHER product that requires the Esellerateengine.dll file ? Possibly Wideview or FS Earth ? Is that one the product you had issues with ?

If yes, the whole issue is caused by THAT program, and doesn't have anything to do with Cloud9, but with the fact that product uses an older version of the Esellerate engine, which is not fully compatible with Windows 7 and, the moment you run FS9, THAT product installs the old version in the C:\Windows folder (which is the only one it knows about, since it was for XP only), which conflicts with our version, that is fully compatible with Windows 7, but if the two are loaded together, it would crash FS9
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martinlest
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« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2010, 07:39:55 PM »

Hi again. That's what I have been Googling in fact - to find out what other programmes I have that would install that dll file, but I've had no luck so far. But yes, I do have FS_Earth, so I will certainly check that out. If you have a list of other programmes that install the dll (or maybe you just knew about FS_Earth off the top of your head?) it'd be really useful if you could post it, or the URL to where I can look myself. maybe you are a better 'Googler' than I am!! I'll try FS_Earth and if that doesn't help, keep looking.

Thanks again,

Martin
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martinlest
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« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2010, 07:43:07 PM »

.. oh, the other bit of Software was Active Camera, but I don't know if that uses the eSellerateEngine.dll file or not -  I was supposed to run FS9 in Administrator Mode or otherwise the programme doesn't generate a user key to register it. Now that problem is solved I could turn off running FS9 in Admin Mode, though I doubt that would make any difference to this issue.
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virtuali
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« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2010, 09:09:57 PM »

But yes, I do have FS_Earth, so I will certainly check that out. If you have a list of other programmes that install the dll (or maybe you just knew about FS_Earth off the top of your head?)

I surely do recall FS Earth and Wideview, because I know the developer uses Esellerate as well, I think Flightsim labs use it as well, but I'm not sure they ever developed for FS9, and the Qualitywings 757 also use it, but I can vouch for it not being the problem, since I wrote the installer for them...
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martinlest
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« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2010, 11:50:34 PM »

After a few other abortive troubleshooting efforts (I disabled fs_earth.exe but that didn't help), I thought that I would remove non-default dll files from the modules folder - first I tried the fs_earth dll file, and sure enoug, with that removed I don't get the eSellerateEngine.dll file copied to Windows. So FS9 no longer crashes, and problem solved (I think). Maybe I have an old version of FS_Earth installed: I'll see if I can find an update.

Well, thanks for the lead. I can now confidently purchase the Amsterdam scenery!

Martin
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