Author Topic: Scenery causing FSX to act strange  (Read 12335 times)

philipvjensen

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Scenery causing FSX to act strange
« on: August 01, 2010, 03:11:38 pm »
Hi,
first off the bat, love the sceneries have all except 1 and have changed from fs9 to fsx most recently. I have taken great care and time in setting up payware addons into my FSX so far 2 aerosoft german airpots, land mesh, landclass, Orbx sceneries and terrain incl PNW amd FTX oz. Everything was running very smoothly no issues, flew every way in my pmdg aircraft and my level D 767.

I then added just KJFK to test it out and then thats when things went pear shaped. The sim would stutter long pauses, go to a black screen and then return to the sim and even distort and draw the graphics out so that buildings were streched to make long extended versions as well as colour distortions, so i searched the forum did an uninstall of everything deleted the BGL.dll thing and removed the lines from the fsx.cfg installed it again and same issue. so I uninstalled it and did that and then sim worked with no problems. Then i skipped FSDT scenery and installed the Quality Sim 757 and randomly in flight it would crash my sim at random times at different locations, before flight middle flight, with and without autopilot and I noticed both these addons use Virtuali software.
Now im not here to bash anything or anyone, I am a big fan of FSDT but I cannot see why my sim acts strange everytime I install a Virtuali software product because when its no installed my sim works fine and I can fly for long periods of time with no hickups.

And I am desperate to fix this issue so I can fly into KJFK or chicago or Honolulu without worrying about the issues I am experiencing.

I run all my system on windows 7 64bit with core i7 930 and a GTX480 graphics card, my anti virus is NOD32 and it does not scan any files in FSX nor does it scan until 3am, all firewalls are disabled and my user account setting is set to lowest possible as well as I run as administrator, 6gb of triple channel ram.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2010, 03:15:29 pm by philipvjensen »

virtuali

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Re: Scenery causing FSX to act strange
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2010, 08:52:39 pm »
Sorry but, from your description of the problem (strange graphic artifacts, wrong polygons), it's nothing that can be caused by a scenery, and not even by an addon .dll module.

Only a problem with video drivers can cause that.

Also, outside the FSDT scenery areas, our module doesn't do anything at all so, if you are having problems outside our sceneries (they loading range is usually 8-12 nm around the airport), then you can be assured the problem doesn't have anything to do with our module.

Probably, with all addons, your system is under heavy load, and adding our sceneries might just crossed a boundary, when a bug in video drivers, or another problem (like overheating, for example) comes out, so you might be misled into thinking the problem was caused by our module.

About stuttering, if it happens ONLY within the area of our sceneries, there's a setting for this in the Addon Manager, and it's the Anti-popup setting: by increasing it, you are trading some fps for less stuttering.

But, if you are experiencing stutters also in areas outside our sceneries, than it's 100% sure the problem doesn't have anything to do with our software. I confirm, outside the airport range, the module doesn't do anything, except that checking your position (at a very low priority), in case you return in the scenery area.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2010, 09:12:29 pm by virtuali »

philipvjensen

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Re: Scenery causing FSX to act strange
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2010, 05:18:11 pm »
ok im going to be clear again.

Inside this 12nm I get this: youtube link provided.
Without any fsdreamteam sceneries I never ever experience this even in the most demanding sceneries with the most demanding aircraft in the same setup in the same way I shot this.

I do not know why this happens and it is usually when maxing out the view but also happens inside the cockpit



additionally I play 3 other games which are very graphically demanding and I never experience any graphic issues with these games
« Last Edit: August 07, 2010, 05:27:34 pm by philipvjensen »

virtuali

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Re: Scenery causing FSX to act strange
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2010, 05:23:53 pm »
ok im going to be clear again.

Inside this 12nm I get this: youtube link provided.

That's clearly a video driver problem or something that is affecting the video card, nothing in the scenery can cause this.

philipvjensen

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Re: Scenery causing FSX to act strange
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2010, 05:28:48 pm »
I'm sorry that is arrogance you speak, I have NO issues with any of the addons I have including all of FTX sceneries, 24 aerosoft sceneries and your saying its my drivers? and not your scenery?

Your also then suggesting everyone with a GTX 400 series nvidia card has corrupt drivers? that is a very poor statement
« Last Edit: August 07, 2010, 05:31:19 pm by philipvjensen »

virtuali

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Re: Scenery causing FSX to act strange
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2010, 05:36:16 pm »
I'm sorry that is arrogance you speak, I have NO issues with any of the addons I have including all of FTX sceneries, 24 aerosoft sceneries and your saying its my drivers? and not your scenery?

What's "arrogance" ?

That a scenery can't cause the problem you are showing in the video, it's a plain an simple fact, you just can't dismiss a fact as "arrogance", just because you don't accept it.

I think to have clearly explained that, if you don't see it at other places, it doesn't mean it's CAUSED by the scenery.

Let's do an example (I'm not using real numbers, it's just an example), suppose FSX + all your other installed addons are taking, let's say 70% of your available video memory and, suppose there's problem in your video driver that happens ONLY when memory is used more than 90%. If, by adding PHNL, you reach 95% of vram, this might trigger that problem, without obviously being a problem of the scenery ITSELF, but just the thing that triggered it so, if you never had all that memory taken to begin with, and installed PHNL only, you wouldn't probably had any issue, because it might been caused by everything combined.

This is just ONE explanation, but it's cleary sound one.

Besides, nobody has every reported this specific issue before so, it's clearly something that is happening on your system only.

philipvjensen

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Re: Scenery causing FSX to act strange
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2010, 02:55:38 pm »
ok so I updated my driver to a slightly newer one, now no more weird screens but after flying out and back into sceneries and taxiing around for a bit I get a CTD I uninstalled QW757 but that doesn't help.

Description
Faulting Application Path:   C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Games\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\fsx.exe

Problem signature
Problem Event Name:   APPCRASH
Application Name:   fsx.exe
Application Version:   10.0.61637.0
Application Timestamp:   46fadb14
Fault Module Name:   nvd3dum.dll
Fault Module Version:   8.17.12.5896
Fault Module Timestamp:   4c378e88
Exception Code:   c0000005
Exception Offset:   003514c3
OS Version:   6.1.7600.2.0.0.768.3
Locale ID:   3081
Additional Information 1:   0a9e
Additional Information 2:   0a9e372d3b4ad19135b953a78882e789
Additional Information 3:   0a9e
Additional Information 4:   0a9e372d3b4ad19135b953a78882e789

Extra information about the problem
Bucket ID:   1955490610

I know your going to say graphics card but I had it tested at the comp shop and it passed all graphic software tests no problems. The GTX480 is nvidias flagship model at the moment so I don't know why this is happenign when I load your sceneries

virtuali

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Re: Scenery causing FSX to act strange
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2010, 10:42:26 pm »
Fault Module Name:   nvd3dum.dll

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I know your going to say graphics card

I'm not telling you it's graphic card. It's Windows ITSELF that told you it's the graphic card. The above report clearly indicates, the graphic driver has crashed.

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but I had it tested at the comp shop and it passed all graphic software tests no problems.

That's not really relevant, it might just tell you the card is not broken. However, it doesn't tell anything about the video driver/card combination ability to perform without errors in FSX.

If FSX, for any reasons, triggers an BUG in the video driver, which can't be disclosed by the standard test, because might be also related to an *FSX* bug or an FSX setting, you will have problems in FSX only, with the card happily passing all tests.

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The GTX480 is nvidias flagship model at the moment so I don't know why this is happenign when I load your sceneries

You are really too quick to jump to conclusions. Let's search Google for the "nvd3dum.dll" which IS what's happening to you:

Lots of reports of it ( more than 30 thousands, to be precise...), from all kind of sources, like this one:

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=91437

Interesting comment here:

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=102842

The user started having the nvd3dum.dll crash when he broke the fan. Could be that (not strange, for this seaons) your card is overheating when put under heavy load ?

or this one:

http://www.left4deadforums.com/19784-nvd3dum-dll.html

This one, also related to FSX:

http://www.flightsimworld.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=155912

Interesting comment here:

"Ok, I have worked something out. If I fly at TNCM with lovely weather during the day It works fine. But if I load up TNCM in rain and night then it crashes almost immediately."

Which is exactly what I've said initially: when the system is stressed by ANY complex scenery, FlyTampa in this case, (which of course is not the only thing running, all the addons contribute to the overall stress), something happens, which might be specific to your setup. Heat *could* be a factor here.

I think this gives plenty of evidence it's NOT a problem of our sceneries. It can happen with every software, and it can happen also with other FSX sceneries.

philipvjensen

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Re: Scenery causing FSX to act strange
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2010, 12:41:36 pm »
ok so I nailed it down to KLAS was causing my FSX to crash but only after taking off and landing again and taxiing for a good amount of time.

Then I installed the trial of KDFW tested that out, and went back to KLAS and put MAX settings on everything and a 767 Level-D taxied flew out came back in and taxiied around for a while and no crashes and i spent 3 hours testing. So it seems after installing KDFW something changed because I had 5 KLAS fsx crashes after KDFW no crashes at KLAS.

I will hopefully buy KDFW and experience no more crashes as I am believe it or a not a big fan of your sceneries

virtuali

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Re: Scenery causing FSX to act strange
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2010, 01:56:08 pm »
ok so I nailed it down to KLAS was causing my FSX to crash but only after taking off and landing again and taxiing for a good amount of time.

It's not KLAS that is making crashing your computer. It's your video driver.

Fact that happens at KLAS, it's just becasue it's a very complex scenery, it might crash in any other location that is this complex. And of course, it's just not KLAS, but all the other stuff you have loaded in that area, airplane, ai, terrain, mesh, default city scenery (which is quite demanding at KLAS). It's the overall combination that might have trigger the problem in your system, not just KLAS by itself.

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Then I installed the trial of KDFW tested that out, and went back to KLAS and put MAX settings on everything and a 767 Level-D taxied flew out came back in and taxiied around for a while and no crashes and i spent 3 hours testing

Believe it or not, KDFW in FSX is less demanding than KLAS, also because the default scenery there is way less complex so, it might not reach the total resource comsumption that triggers your system problem, that's why it happens at KLAS and not at KDFW, without this having anything to do with KLAS having a specific problem on its own.

If it was something specific at KLAS, we should have heard it by now but, if you look at the KLAS forum, nobody ever experienced a video driver crash at KLAS. Not even in any of our sceneries, BTW, but surely not at KLAS.

philipvjensen

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Re: Scenery causing FSX to act strange
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2010, 03:00:07 pm »
hi I respect your comments, but im telling you as I see it, i tested KLAS for 3 hours 5 crashes, after I instaleld the KDFW scenery and tested other FSDREAMTEAM sceneries for 1 hour no issues then back to KLAS 2 hours of testing no crashes

philipvjensen

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Re: Scenery causing FSX to act strange
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2010, 03:01:45 pm »
also as a result I have purchased KDFW, hopefully no future fsx crash issues

virtuali

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Re: Scenery causing FSX to act strange
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2010, 03:13:22 pm »
hi I respect your comments, but im telling you as I see it, i tested KLAS for 3 hours 5 crashes, after I instaleld the KDFW scenery and tested other FSDREAMTEAM sceneries for 1 hour no issues then back to KLAS 2 hours of testing no crashes

I've already explained why, fact that you are getting crashes at KLAS and not KDFW, doesn't mean KLAS has a problem, but only that your PC has a problem running *everything* that is installed, when you are located at KLAS.

As I've said, NOBODY else reported a video driver crash at KLAS before, if the problem was the scenery, we would have heard at least other reports.

Keep ignoring this, and being convinced KLAS has a problem and KDFW doesn't, will only result in you never discover what the *real* cause was so, the problem will eventually surface again, either with another scenery, or even with another application besides FSX.


philipvjensen

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Re: Scenery causing FSX to act strange
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2010, 03:39:55 pm »
firstly, my computer has been setup to purely run FSX, so you do not know my configuration, it has been expertly configured and optimized far behind what you may know, secondly none of my sceneries never had a problem or crashed under full load. My computer has never crashed nor have I seen any strange behaviours with my FSX or computer operations until I installed your scenerys. I will except your sceneries are demanding but so is FTX YMML from orbx with full traffic and a PMDG aircraft, in fact it is more demanding than KLAS and I never experienced any issues over the 40+ landings and take offs I have done there.

virtuali

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Re: Scenery causing FSX to act strange
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2010, 03:51:27 pm »
firstly, my computer has been setup to purely run FSX, so you do not know my configuration, it has been expertly configured and optimized far behind what you may know

That's entirely irrelevant: if FSX has a bug or your video driver has a bug, or the COMBINATION of FSX and the video driver has a bug, which manifests ONLY under a certain conditions, and made the video driver crashing, even the best built system in the world, will crash it as well.

Besides, it was you that initially said the all our sceneries behave strangely with video problems, and this went away when you UPDATED your drivers, and it's changing now into a video driver crash, at KLAS only. Which means, it's clear it has always been a video driver issue to begin with, that has improved with a new video driver, but it hasn't entirely fixed.

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secondly none of my sceneries never had a problem or crashed under full load.

Not even KLAS has crashed. It's your VIDEO DRIVER that has crashed.

A scenery can't crash a video driver, because they can't simply communicate with each other. When the scenery has a problem, it's the FSX G3D.DLL module that crashes, which is the module that takes the job of translating scenery commands into DirectX commands so, whenever the scenery has a problem, it will alwyas crash the FSX module it can communicate with. Sometimes, if the problem is a texture, G2D.DLL crashes but again, a scenery can only cause FSX modules to crash, it simply can't "reach" a video driver.

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I will except your sceneries are demanding but so is FTX YMML from orbx with full traffic and a PMDG aircraft, in fact it is more demanding than KLAS and I never experienced any issues over the 40+ landings and take offs I have done there.

Again, you are oversimplyfing things: "demanding" doens't mean much, if one doesn't analyze exactly WHAT is being drawn on screen, which kind of materials, texture formats, effects, which in turns convert in which shaders are called. If your video driver has a bug that manifests itself ONLY with specifc video card function that deals with a specific kind of material/effects/texture formats, it might crash even if you have MORE demanding sceneries, that maybe use different combinations of materials, texture formats, shaders, etc.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2010, 03:55:33 pm by virtuali »