Author Topic: Potential customer questions  (Read 6510 times)

Er!k

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Potential customer questions
« on: June 30, 2010, 07:12:17 am »
Hi guys!

I just downloaded the KJFK scenery but before buying I have a question and some comments:

- First of all I noticed no traffic at all. When taking a look in the AFCAD file I noticed fake runways. I know they are used for parallel runway operations, but since they were not closed and not moved to the North Pole, all AI was trying to land at it and no AI was taking off. After changing everything was working ok.

- I have a fast machine (I Core7-950 3.07Ghz, 6GB RAM, Geforce GTX275) but still got 20FPS at KJFK in combination with the QW757. Also the texture resizer gives me a small FPS boost, but still 20's. Any options to improve these? All other big airports (Heathrow, Frankfurt, Schiphol) are running fine at 30 FPS (locked).

Thanks,

Er!k

virtuali

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Re: Potential customer questions
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2010, 10:53:31 am »
- First of all I noticed no traffic at all

That's nothing that can be caused by the scenery, it's surely an error of your AI configuration, perhaps a double traffic.bgl, or a conflicting AFCAD coming from another scenery which is interfering ( they usually come with AI traffic packages ), nobody usually reported missing AI under FS9, sometimes they can disappear in FSX, when using FS9 AI models in FSX with Airplane shadows off, but this is never happens under FS9.

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When taking a look in the AFCAD file I noticed fake runways. I know they are used for parallel runway operations, but since they were not closed and not moved to the North Pole, all AI was trying to land at it and no AI was taking off. After changing everything was working ok.

No, these runways are not used for crosswind operations, they are used to have the 3 series of strobes for curved the approach to 13L so, you shouldn't have moved them to the North Pole, because now you lost the lights.

In any case, the AI will never try to land there, both because they are too short to be taken into consideration, and because the real runways with an ILS approach will always take precendence. You can close them or not, it won't make any difference.

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I have a fast machine (I Core7-950 3.07Ghz, 6GB RAM, Geforce GTX275) but still got 20FPS at KJFK in combination with the QW757. Also the texture resizer gives me a small FPS boost, but still 20's.

Then there must be something wrong either in your config, or your settings, because I have better fps on a way lower machine ON FSX!!. However, you should never test with an addon airplane, because you might end up judging the airplane performances instead of the scenery's. How is the fps with a DEFAULT airplane ?

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Any options to improve these? All other big airports (Heathrow, Frankfurt, Schiphol) are running fine at 30 FPS (locked).

Then it's now quite sure you have a problem that is affecting JFK: see this older post of mine, which shows a comparison between JFK and Aerosoft EGLL, that clearly shows JFK is way faster than EGLL. And note, as I've said earlier, these tests were made with a computer way less powerful than yours, and on FSX!

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=1304.msg10480#msg10480

Note that, your machine is really wasted using FS9, and JFK is specifically optimized for FSX. However, under FS9, it should at least perform the same as in FSX, not worse.

Strange that you get an *fps* increase with the textures resizer, on a fast system like yours, it should have improved ONLY the smoothness in loading, not the fps, your graphic card has plenty of spare power to render hires textures, if you really had an fps increase by lowering the texture resolution, something is not working right.

Note that, a double AFCAD coming from another scenery, might decrease performances so, it might be worth checking it.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2010, 10:55:26 am by virtuali »

Er!k

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Re: Potential customer questions
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2010, 02:44:05 pm »
Hi Umberto,

Thanks for your reply! To clarify things:

- When I first started FS, AI was at the gate, but it would not depart. I also did not see any aircraft landing. After cycling AI I noticed all aircraft landing away from the airport. This was the main reason to look into the AFCAD. I noticed the fake runways which were not closed at all... Maybe this is the error causing the traffic to land on runway 17? I noticed some similar topics on this forum.
- Regarding performance, I do not have a clue, but will try to sort some things out.

Captain Kevin

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Re: Potential customer questions
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2010, 11:13:10 pm »
Quote
I have a fast machine (I Core7-950 3.07Ghz, 6GB RAM, Geforce GTX275) but still got 20FPS at KJFK in combination with the QW757. Also the texture resizer gives me a small FPS boost, but still 20's.

Then there must be something wrong either in your config, or your settings, because I have better fps on a way lower machine ON FSX!!. However, you should never test with an addon airplane, because you might end up judging the airplane performances instead of the scenery's. How is the fps with a DEFAULT airplane ?
I'm just curious as to the relevance that one gets with a default airplane if one doesn't use the default planes. I would have thought it would make sense to test using a plane that one would likely be using with the scenery.
Captain Kevin

virtuali

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Re: Potential customer questions
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2010, 02:14:01 pm »
I'm just curious as to the relevance that one gets with a default airplane if one doesn't use the default planes. I would have thought it would make sense to test using a plane that one would likely be using with the scenery.

It's just wrong to "test" a scenery using the airplane that one would likely using with a scenery because, if this airplane has a problem, one would end up not using any scenery anymore because he would get the wrong perfomance impression from each and every scenery out there, you are not testing a scenery anymore, you are testing the airplane. Note that, I'm not referring to the QW757 airplane in particular (there are *far* worse airplanes, from the performance point of view, out there), it's a generic concept: to correctly assess performances, one needs to test items separately.

An example:

- Suppose one has 40 fps with JFK default, using a default airplane and NO addons installed whatsover.

- Suppose installing FSDT JFK the fps goes down to 33 fps. Which means, a 17% hit over default

- Suppose installing an addon airplane, the fps goes down to 17 fps. Which means, 50% hit after installing the scenery

- Suppose installing an AI traffic package with a busy real world schedule at 100% fps goes down to 10 fps, another 45%

So, we have a scenery that impacts for 17%, an airplane that impacts for 50% and traffic that impacts 45%. Since the scenery weights for 17%, even if one chose not to install the scenery in the first place, but still using his favorite airplane and the traffic package, the fps would have been 13, which is as disappointing as 10...

That's why it's important to check items one by one. The first route to get better performances, is to KNOW how much each addon impacts and working on THAT one first.

In any case, my reply didn't had anythign to do with the airplane. The original poster said he has better frame rate with "all other big airports sceneries", like Aerosoft EGLL. To that, I replied with a post that clearly shows JFK is FASTER than EGLL, under the same conditions so, I'm suspecting the poster haven't tried JFK under the same condition of the other airports. Perhaps, he had a different airplane then, or he changed something else because, as demonstrated by the posted screenshots, JFK is clearly faster than other similarly sized airports. But of course, I'm testing in the only correct way: default everything with BOTH sceneries.

Because, if one has installed something else in the JFK area (eg. Aerosoft Manhattan, Imaginesim KLGA and/or KEWR) that is affecting the fps, but doesn't have anything of the sort in the London area that is affecting EGLL, it's clear the test was flawed.

JFK is an incredibly fast scenery, considering its complexity and its size, but it can't do miracles: if the fps in the same area was already bad to begin with, surely JFK can't improve it.

And, in any case, that machine the poster was using, is underused in FS9, and JFK is particularly suffering from this, because it has plenty of optimizations (a big part of its code runs outside FSX by our Python scripting engine that is a separate .EXE, which means it takes advantadge of multi-cores) which are only valid for FSX. As I've said, I have better fps in FSX, but I also don't get THAT much better fps in FS9.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2010, 02:52:04 pm by virtuali »

virtuali

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Re: Potential customer questions
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2010, 02:22:59 pm »
I noticed the fake runways which were not closed at all... Maybe this is the error causing the traffic to land on runway 17?

First, I'm sorry not having noticed your 2nd post so, I'll reply it now. As I've said in my previous post, fact that the fake runway are not closed, it's NOT a problem!! You can close them or not, it won't make any difference, because these runways will never be used by the AI anyway, because they are too short to have any impact on the runway decision algorithm.

There were some discussion about AI landing outside the runway, but this is an entirely different issue, and it only happens when using the ALTERNATE AFCAD for JFK that enables the Canarsie visual approach. And, it doesn't affect all the AI models the same way, it depends mainly by their flight model: some of them are able to make the final turn to 13L correctly, some of them aren't. But it doesn't depends by the fact the fake runways aren't closed, and the Canarsie AFCAD is not even installed by default.

Another reason why airplanes don't depart or don't land, it's because you might simply have the AI traffic sets to such an high level, that all gates that are able to accept that particular airplane are taken. Which also could explain your low fps: JFK IS a busy place and, if you use real world schedules with full complexity, it's easy to have more than 200 AI models at the airport, which would easily kill performances of even the lightest scenery.