Sludge Hornet Modifications

[Tregarth]

Thank you for this; I have always maintained (and tell my wife) this is a very erudite and informative site.  My education has been improved.

Cheers!

Tregarth

[Orion]

This is for Herb, or anyone else who would like the Sludge Hornet to automatically display the barometric altimeter instead of the radar altimeter:

Grab the attached zip file, extract to a temporary folder and copy FA18_HUD_VC_R_Init.CAB to your Sludge Hornet's panel folder.  Replace the existing file, and you should be set.  I've also included what should be the original HUD initialization file included with the Sludge Hornet 1.1 (FA18_HUD_VC_R_Init.CAB.bak), but you may want to back up your existing one, just in case.

Just to note, I haven't tested it yet, since I haven't gotten to fly in FS.  Just reinstalled Windows along with the FSX SDK, and this was one of my first things done.

[Sludge]

Fellas...

Here's something the Sludge CANNOT do, and I wish it could.

Fast forward to 7:35, and keep watching...

Later
Sludge

[SUBS17]

Fellas...

Here's something the Sludge CANNOT do, and I wish it could.

Fast forward to 7:35, and keep watching...

Later
Sludge

Hornets can't do the Cobra so it would turn a partially realistic Hornet into an Arcade addon if it did. Cobra is still interesting though you can do that in Lockon in the SU27, 33 and Mig29. For a dogfight manouver its a suicidal move since it makes you into a sitting duck however in some cases it can be used for an advantage.

[Sludge]

Subs...

Yeah, I know its unrealistic, just fun to think of as an add-on.  Ive done it to the Sludge by tweaking the aircraft.cfg elevator responsiveness scalar.  It looks really cool, and I agree it would be unrealistic, but I love how it looks when done correctly.

I dont think its a suicide maneuver, when done in a 1 v 1.  In "1 v 2" or "1 v unknown" and you execute it on the first guy, you'd be dead as dinner.  Id think a turning cobra would be the best bet, in terms of practicality.  Granted, Russian birds still have the deck stacked in their favor in the merge (off boresight heaters, higher maneuverability fighters), so its kinda a moot point, but if US fighters could pull the turning Cobra it would help to level the playing field, in the merge.  Even defensively, I think the "level, nose up cobra" is a last-ditch resort that means "I gotta do this or I get shot."

Just some thoughts I had about including a Cobra.  If you wanna try it and have the default or Sludge, simply open up the AIRCRAFT.CFG, find the "elevator_responsiveness_scalar=" and crank it up to 2.0 or greater.  Start up FSX, go free flight with the Sludge.  Get to level flight, around 10k at 200 KIAS, then input about 6.0 nose up trim so you have hold the stick down for level flight.  Idle throttle.  As airspeed drops past 180, pull back full on the stick then extend half flaps.  Rotate the nose about 90 deg up, then nose back down to level flight.  Granted, the Russians in their SU-27s can get to 120 deg from level flight, but the 90 deg is just a starting point for someone who's never tried it.

Enjoy.

Later
Sludge

[SUBS17]

Well a US fighter can do the Cobra and thats the F22 perhaps its better if you mod an F22 addon with that feature. BTW in my experience I've used the Cobra in a dogfight against an F15C in Lockon and still got OWNED so its not a super move all the other guy did was a high g barrel roll and maintained his energy at corner speed.

[Sludge]

Subs...

This is just a loose idea that I played with, Im seriously NOT gonna mod another plane.  Do you know how much trouble it is, and I dont get paid a cent.

BTW, where did you execute the Cobra and what Cobra did you do?  Turning or level?

The turning is the only one to be used in a dogfight (will explain) and the level Cobra is a "I'm locked up, I do this or I'm dead" maneuver.  See, I look at the turning Cobra as a tool and from my knowledge, the usaf knows its a matter of time before other nations figure out how to use it at the right times.  First, India used it against F-15s to great success.  However, the eagle drivers figured out the "weakness" of the turning Cobra by fighting F-22's.  That once the opponent executes it, they better be doing it coming into shot parameters, because if not, they will bleed far too much airspeed for AoA and will little drop like a rock.  However, Russia and India will figure out that once they initiate the turning Cobra, its an end-game only maneuver... meaning, the Flanker/SuperFlanker is just a bit short in the turning fight to get within weapons parameters and needs that couple of extra deg/sec turn rate to get inside an opponents turn to get the shot.  Sorta in the same way how USN learned to use the Pirouette to take advantage of low speed, hi-alpha... used at the right time and not putting the Hornet into a bad position but a reversal.

Im not one who believes the Cobra is an end-all, be-all manuever that wins dogfights.  Nor am I one who thinks its only for airshows.  But it is a useful tool, that if needed, will give the Flanker even more of an edge in-close.  They already have been employing close-in weapons training for decades, and their turn rate is second to only the F-22, along with longer range IR weapons.

Later
Sludge

[SpazSinbad]

From APPROACH Magazine 01 December 2003 - 'Cobra Off The Cat' Hornet story (see below). At moment it seems the APPROACH Archive is unavailable (website in transition apparently).

[SUBS17]

Subs...

This is just a loose idea that I played with, Im seriously NOT gonna mod another plane.  Do you know how much trouble it is, and I dont get paid a cent.

BTW, where did you execute the Cobra and what Cobra did you do?  Turning or level?

The turning is the only one to be used in a dogfight (will explain) and the level Cobra is a "I'm locked up, I do this or I'm dead" maneuver.  See, I look at the turning Cobra as a tool and from my knowledge, the usaf knows its a matter of time before other nations figure out how to use it at the right times.  First, India used it against F-15s to great success.  However, the eagle drivers figured out the "weakness" of the turning Cobra by fighting F-22's.  That once the opponent executes it, they better be doing it coming into shot parameters, because if not, they will bleed far too much airspeed for AoA and will little drop like a rock.  However, Russia and India will figure out that once they initiate the turning Cobra, its an end-game only maneuver... meaning, the Flanker/SuperFlanker is just a bit short in the turning fight to get within weapons parameters and needs that couple of extra deg/sec turn rate to get inside an opponents turn to get the shot.  Sorta in the same way how USN learned to use the Pirouette to take advantage of low speed, hi-alpha... used at the right time and not putting the Hornet into a bad position but a reversal.

Im not one who believes the Cobra is an end-all, be-all manuever that wins dogfights.  Nor am I one who thinks its only for airshows.  But it is a useful tool, that if needed, will give the Flanker even more of an edge in-close.  They already have been employing close-in weapons training for decades, and their turn rate is second to only the F-22, along with longer range IR weapons.

Later
Sludge

I used the Cobra in a dogfight in Lockon and I have used both vertical horizontal cobras in the same situation in either case the F-15C just held his corner speed 440-550kts and used a yoyo type manouver to remain in the 6 o'clock position.



The real potential of manouvers like the Cobra is not just being able to execute such manouvers but to use preprogrammed FBW(like the pirouette in the Superhornet) combined with Thrust vectoring nozzels to allow the pilot to take full advantage of the ability to turn on a dime and keep turning.

In Falcon we have a mod which allows us to use the F-16 pit in other flyable aircraft such as the F22 and hornet I suppose the same is possible in FSX if you got the maker of the 3d model to combine it with FSX accelerations hornet pit but with your FM which has the cobra script. BTW could you please post a video of this cobra with smoke on so we can see exactly what it is you've managed to do with FSX?

[Sludge]

Spaz...

Good post, I like the crazy story about inadvertently launching of the cat right into a mini-Cobra and surviving the launch.  Id have been scared out of my mind.

Subs...

Do you have a video of what your dogfight was?  I know the F-16 yo-yo, but was hoping you had something that depicted what you actually did in the lock-on engagement.  I keep hearing this but have trouble seeing it.  Are you saying that the Eagle was at your six, was in a corner turning fight, 1v1, and he kept you in his forward WEZ?  And youre flying an SU-27 and you couldnt break him off your six?  I dont see how thats possible unless the game lets you pull 12 plus sustained Gs (unrealistic for an Eagle)?  But if you can diagram or explain the full situation, I might "see the light"?  Also, my idea was not to "unleash" the turning Cobra til the last possible moment when you needed that extra couple of deg/sec turn to get within weapons parameters.  Not as a main tactic to use, such as a Split-S, Immelman, or horizontal yo-yo, but that little boost to get your front end within weapons launch paramters.  Additionally, the SU-27 can out-turn an F-15 in a turning fight, so how did he get behind you?

And does Lock-On have G-limiters/AoA-limiters or can the F-15s also pull 15-20 Gs with no ill effects, like in FSX.  Thats one of the things I always hated about mock dogfights in FSX, is the lack of realistic aircraft LIMs or even human LIMs.  I mean, understandably, the FSX 5 G LIM is far too low, but when you turn it off, you can pull 15 plus Gs w/no aircraft damage or pilot G-LOC, so its always a trade-off in game realism.  Maybe Ill have to get Lock On to see what the game does and what its LIMs are?  And Ill try to make a video of the Sludge Hornet Cobra when I get a chance...  its nowhere near as beauimus as the SU-27/30/37 or the F-22 cobra, but its decent.  Plus, it has to be done at such a lower speed than the real thing, that it would be crazy to try that in combat.  Id rather do a pirouette and try for a real reversal than a level- or turning-cobra and lose ALL my energy.

Well, IF you know any 3D modelers, send them my way.  Would rather work on the collimated HUD than anything else, and right now, I need a good 3D modeler.

Later
Sludge

[SUBS17]

Sorry there is no track of that dogfight yes there is blackout, grey out and red out modeled in Lockon in fact it is substantially more sensitive than Falcon/FSX in this respect as it also features stamina. Eventhough the SU27 can out turn an F-15 in this particular dogfight I was not that good at dogfighting and the guy I was up against is very good he basically used a Yoyo each time I pulled the cobra to remain at my 6. I highly reccomend Flaming Cliffs 2 if you should decide to get it but bare in mind that you will need the original Lockon as well or get a combination of Lockon and Flaming Cliffs 2 as this will allow you to fly in the same theatre as DCS A-10C and Ka50. Yes Lockon does feature G limiters and AoA Limiters and a bitching betty. Just look on youtube there are plenty of videos there of dogfights. 

[Sludge]

Subs...

I looked at the youtube videos last night.  They are OK, just wondering what settings there are for realism.  I hear "betty" wailing about "over-G" and "high-AoA", so Ill have to see what's available and what multiplayer anti-cheats are used.  Also, will have to see if there's a padlock view, since Im not a TrackIR user... but still want SA in the merge.

On a real life note, I got a response from one of my Eagle driver buddies and things are still the same, Eagles dont like to go into the merge against SU-27s/SU-30s.  They will mix it up in the merge in real life obviously, and we would have other air assets to help, but as far as exercises, no... they'd rather shoot BVR.  Especially if there are no "handcuffs" on off-boresight Archer (AA-11) shots.  The Archer is easily better than the AIM-9X (even with HMD) in all respects, probly only equaled or bettered by the Israeli Python-5, and the Ruskies/Chinese/Indians have been practicing with it for a full decade.  Luckily, we still do exercises with the Indians to learn our failings (Cope Thunder) and get better at ACM/DACT.  Also, his take on the "cobra" was quite different that anything Ive heard.  He didnt like the idea of doing full turning-cobras as the airspeed bleed would leave him dead in the air, but more about doing "micro-pull" cobras to slowly get the edge in a turning fight.  Now, Ill have to get LOMAC and see whats possible.

Anyone else have any "real world" inputs?  I mean my buddy couldnt answer specifics as ranges/tactics are still classified secret or better, but he still was pretty up front about not wanting to go into the merge against SU-27s/SU-30s.  But I would like to hear if anybody else has some real world stories.

Later
Sludge

[SUBS17]

Thats interesting coming from an Eagle driver I seem to recall IRL a pair of SU27s got totally owned by a pair of F-14s when the 27s were first developed. As for Lockon the F-15 has changed over time with patches initially it had a higher pk with the Aim120 and then after a patch the pk became much lower and the SU27s A/A missiles much higher but with FC2 they upgraded the Aim120 to a more realistic capability and also the F-15s performance was tweaked. In Lockon you can also use the Aim120s to take HOJ(Home on Jam) shots if the other guy is using his jammer. As for realism settings if you have it on the highest setting it handles quite well and fairly realistically although it does not have a clickable pit and the FM is still Simplified compared to the SU25T and A-10C which both have Advanced Flight models. Maybe later on ED might do a F-15C DCS addon but at this stage Lockon Flaming Cliffs 2 is the best thats available. For LO I suggest you get a trakir because I used to use external views etc when I lost talley on the bandit but Trakir is the way to go.

[Sludge]

Thats interesting coming from an Eagle driver I seem to recall IRL a pair of SU27s got totally owned by a pair of F-14s when the 27s were first developed.

Subs...

Where was this?  I have never heard of SU-27s getting "owned" by Tomcats, especially if they were in the merge.  The Tomcats ONLY saving grace was the B-D models engines.  I could only envision this happening if the SU's were flown by the incompetent Iraqi (pre-invasion), Iranian, Libyan drivers.  No way a Russian, Chinese, or Indian Flanker driver gets "owned" by a Tomcat.

Provide a reference for that, what theatre and what happened.

Later
Sludge

[SUBS17]

Maybe it was a bit before your time I'm sure its been mentioned on this forum before. Soviet SU27s harrassing a P3 Orion got intercepted by a pair of F-14s all they did was get on their 6 and the 27s broke off and headed back to Russia. BTW don't knock the F-14 as an Iranian F-14 has beaten a Mig29 too.