Author Topic: KIAH Looks like FSX **IT DOES  (Read 9653 times)

juniormafia27

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 698
  • Better You Than Me
KIAH Looks like FSX **IT DOES
« on: May 29, 2023, 08:50:37 pm »
So looking at KIAH, for MSFS 2020.  There seems to be a lot missing.  Starting off with the chain line fence parameter and the road vegetation and signage that goes through the airport.  Greens road is missing the aviation park just in front of rnwy 27.  As long as this took to come out it looks like an FSX product.  In comparison to other sceneries.  My question is are these items that maybe updated later on in whatever update that may come.  Or you just missed these items all together? 
« Last Edit: July 04, 2023, 09:12:29 pm by virtuali »
ASUS Hero Motherboard
Windows 11 64Bit
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-9700K CPU @ 3.60GHz   3.60 GHz
64.0 GB Corsair Vengeance RGB PRO Ram
Corsair 1200 Watt
 Corsair H115i-Water Cooler
NVIDIA RTX-3090TI
Samsung 49 inch Curved Monitor

 FS9, FSX, P3D, MSFS 2020

virtuali

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 50939
    • VIRTUALI Sagl
Re: KIAH Looks like FSX
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2023, 01:15:16 am »
I stopped reading at your message since the title.

If you really think KIAH "looks like FSX", it's useless to continue here, because when somebody that is not even able to recognize the MASSIVE update with things native to MSFS that has been made completely from scratch and things like resolution and PBR addition that has been improved, won't ever be satisfied with anything we'll add to it.

Your expectation are completely off base, for a 9.99$ scenery that has never be advertised as a full blown made from scratch new product, as if it wasn't already obvious from the price.

juniormafia27

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 698
  • Better You Than Me
Re: KIAH Looks like FSX
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2023, 02:29:46 am »
Look.....I have LITTERALLY bout everything you have put out......so you can stop it.  What I asked was a yes or no question.....  I LITTERALLY live next door to the airport so what I saying is valid.  You can choose to read or not it makes no difference to me.  I simply pointed out the obvious.  I don't sit on here day in and day out.  So obviously I missed it(whatever you are referring too).  Then when I seen the price.  I was like ok...."I guess I got what I paid for".  However, you call it massive....sorry...."MASSIVE" update.  I call it FSX....Acceleration.  Not everyone is going to like your product(s).  However this is the first and only one I was not too fond of.  So I apologize for your feelings being hurt.  But it is what it is.........maybe I am too used to Flightbeam quality.  :)




I stopped reading at your message since the title.

If you really think KIAH "looks like FSX", it's useless to continue here, because when somebody that is not even able to recognize the MASSIVE update with things native to MSFS that has been made completely from scratch and things like resolution and PBR addition that has been improved, won't ever be satisfied with anything we'll add to it.

Your expectation are completely off base, for a 9.99$ scenery that has never be advertised as a full blown made from scratch new product, as if it wasn't already obvious from the price.
ASUS Hero Motherboard
Windows 11 64Bit
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-9700K CPU @ 3.60GHz   3.60 GHz
64.0 GB Corsair Vengeance RGB PRO Ram
Corsair 1200 Watt
 Corsair H115i-Water Cooler
NVIDIA RTX-3090TI
Samsung 49 inch Curved Monitor

 FS9, FSX, P3D, MSFS 2020

virtuali

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 50939
    • VIRTUALI Sagl
Re: KIAH Looks like FSX
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2023, 03:19:08 pm »
Look.....I have LITTERALLY bout everything you have put out......so you can stop it.  What I asked was a yes or no question.....

The question is not the issue, the issue is your statement about "looks like FSX" is factually wrong, and that's what I have an issue with.

Quote
I LITTERALLY live next door to the airport so what I saying is valid.

You can be wrong even if you lived inside the airport.

Let's see a video from somebody that used to WORK AT THE RAMP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr3ONLXZtBI

And this was streamed with the original version, before the MASSIVE texture update, so MASSIVE, that it compelled another very well regarded YouTuber to post another video, aptly named:

Looks COMPLETLY NEW! FSDT updated HOUSTON, any Houston fans MUST SEE THIS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPicRDBvGPQ


Quote
I simply pointed out the obvious.

The only thing obvious here, is your failure to recognize KIAH doesn't look AT ALL "like FSX"

Quote
However, you call it massive....sorry...."MASSIVE" update.  I call it FSX....Acceleration.

You are entitled to have a wrong opinion, so I'm entitled to contest it.

Quote
Not everyone is going to like your product(s).

Of course, there are people who believe the Earth is flat as well, everybody is different. But that's besides the point. The point is you seem to be worried about the FENCES! What is this fixation for fences anyway (and yes, the one in the current version has been improved a bit ), which made you completely not notice the things that really matters, like:

- Performance ( that should be the first thing that matters )

- Navigational accuracy

- Parking spots made correctly, with proper codes, no errors and good AI assignment and AI flow.

juniormafia27

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 698
  • Better You Than Me
Re: KIAH Looks like FSX
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2023, 06:46:01 am »
Bro you are preaching to the choir.  Not only live by the airport but at the ramp damn near daily.......Pushbacks, cargo, etc, etc......Just move on.....This version is FSX to me....period.....Definitely a $9 airport....IF THAT.  Definitely not worth that long ass wait.  Hope someone else will do a better version.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2023, 11:39:14 am by virtuali »
ASUS Hero Motherboard
Windows 11 64Bit
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-9700K CPU @ 3.60GHz   3.60 GHz
64.0 GB Corsair Vengeance RGB PRO Ram
Corsair 1200 Watt
 Corsair H115i-Water Cooler
NVIDIA RTX-3090TI
Samsung 49 inch Curved Monitor

 FS9, FSX, P3D, MSFS 2020

Captain Kevin

  • Beta tester
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1750
  • Captain Kevin
    • Captain Kevin
Re: KIAH Looks like FSX
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2023, 01:56:26 pm »
Okay, let's do this. Here's the area by gate C8 and C9, as depicted on the chart and the FSDreamteam screenshot. You'll notice that this area doesn't exist in P3D.
https://i.imgur.com/hQwUB4x.jpg

And I guess you think the concrete here looks the same?
https://i.imgur.com/e52PNdf.png

https://i.imgur.com/7si6sHq.png
Captain Kevin

virtuali

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 50939
    • VIRTUALI Sagl
Re: KIAH Looks like FSX
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2023, 11:41:34 am »
Okay, let's do this. Here's the area by gate C8 and C9, as depicted on the chart and the FSDreamteam screenshot. You'll notice that this area doesn't exist in P3D.

That was just the most obvious improvement but, I really can't see how anybody couldn't possibly notice the huge and unmistakable and impossible to miss VISUAL changes. The only possible explanations would be:

- They don't even remember how it really looked like in FSX

- Something must be very wrong in their MSFS settings.

virtuali

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 50939
    • VIRTUALI Sagl
Re: KIAH Looks like FSX
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2023, 11:51:45 am »
Bro you are preaching to the choir.  Not only live by the airport but at the ramp damn near daily.......Pushbacks, cargo, etc, etc......

And again, what being/working/living at the airport has anything to do with having said something factually wrong, saying "it looks like FSX", when it clearly isn't ?

Quote
Just move on.....This version is FSX to me....period.....

No, it's not, and anybody can see that.

Quote
Definitely a $9 airport....IF THAT. 

I don't know what you are trying to say here. That an airport that cost 9$ IS WORTH 9$ ? Go figure... Or maybe it isn't ?

Quote
Definitely not worth that long ass wait.

You mean, instead of doing our duty to users that paid 29$ for GSX, and release weekly updates for it to improve it in every conceivable ways, we should have instead forgot those that already spent money, and move on the next product to bring new cash in ?

Quote
Hope someone else will do a better version.

No, they won't, because this airport is so big, that anybody trying to attempt that, would bankrupt himself in the process by working for years (the only way they could to a "better" fps-killing version ) when we would had been on the market for a long time with that bargain price.

Captain Kevin

  • Beta tester
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1750
  • Captain Kevin
    • Captain Kevin
Re: KIAH Looks like FSX
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2023, 03:46:52 pm »
That was just the most obvious improvement but, I really can't see how anybody couldn't possibly notice the huge and unmistakable and impossible to miss VISUAL changes.
Yes, that's why I posted the last two screenshots for comparison.
Captain Kevin

CX 747-400

  • Beta tester
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 281
Re: KIAH Looks like FSX
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2023, 08:17:38 am »
I do not think that it looks like FSX, as there are some nice parts of this scenery, but I also dont feel that this release of Houston lives up to the quality we have come to expect from FSDT.
Just like the person that started this post, I have a lot of your sceneries dating back to Pre-FSDT (Cloud9) days, and this one feels like a step back.
I really do not like the hotel rooms (day or night), and the interior of the terminal E at night. I can see some sort of Asian signs, and wierd looking faces on what I assume are some type of billboard.

I dont want to sound overly negative, because overall I am happy to have something better than default, and it is a lot better than default Scenery.
I hope that your team can find a way to make this scenery to the standards that we have to expect from FSDT.
Jonathan

A part of the Flight Sim world since 1983
-----------------------
MS Windows 10 64bit Home / Intel Kaby Lake i7 @4.2 / ASUS MAX IX Hero Motherboard /Corsair DDR4 16.00G Ram /Nvidia GeForce GTX 1050 Ti

virtuali

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 50939
    • VIRTUALI Sagl
Re: KIAH Looks like FSX
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2023, 11:10:47 am »
but I also dont feel that this release of Houston lives up to the quality we have come to expect from FSDT.

It surely does, because "quality" is NOT just "textures" or "number of polygons". Quality is a overall COMBINATION of ALL these things, some that for me matters even more, assuming we are discussing about a flight simulator:

- Performance. We are better of ANY big airport here, and it's not the scenery is "sparse", it's just very well optimized so it's not just performance, it's the combination of performance/detail/airport size.

- Accuracy of all the navigation data.

- Proper "AFCAD", with proper airline codes, correct parking positions, and no errors. Too many sceneries out there, even the one that cost way more than KIAH, are distributed with lots of errors in the airport layout, which you might not notice normally, but they become obvious when you use GSX, and the usual response is if GSX is behaving bad, it's GSX's fault, when in fact the real issue they are selling faulty product that would cause problems to both airplane AI and ground services AI but since nobody really cares about default ground vehicles and it's easy to blame weird airplane AI behaviours to the MSFS AI engine, those issues are never fixed. KIAH is basically flawless from this point of view.

- The GSX profile is extensive, and took about the same time some developers can do a small airport. Like more than 1500 individual Customized pushback routes, 150+ VGDS, 50 custom passenger walking lanes for both interiors and boarding passengers. There IS an obvious value in having a default GSX profile that is installed with the airport which has been made together with it and kept updated with it.

- The animated panels that interact with GSX on Terminals B and C are something never seen before, because they use brand new feature that has been added to the MSFS SDK very recently but, according to the SDK docs, is not even supported (but it is).

- The latest update that replaced those two (admittedly ugly) United airplanes in the two maintenance hangars, and use the GSX engine to automatically place some United airplanes taken from your existing collection of AI, it's a novel approach to Static airplanes that, again, is completely new. Traditionally, Static planes would steal a regular parking spot and they would be...static. Here, we don't steal a parking spot, and they change every time.

- The price. You just can't ignore the fact KIAH is sold for less than half price of any other large airport out there. The ones that also include the "hidden tax", which would require you to upgrade your video card because in addition to be more expensive, because they just went to far with modeling (or simply failed to optimize it correctly).

I can't post this in public, but if you are interested, I could explain to you in private how some recently released sceneries I'm sure you might say are up to some "high quality standards", are in fact showing an obvious lack of understanding how to optimize a scenery, and they could be much improved, if only the developer took a bit of extra care to that.


Quote
I really do not like the hotel rooms (day or night), and the interior of the terminal E at night. I can see some sort of Asian signs, and weird looking faces on what I assume are some type of billboard.

This is course highly subjective.  Since this scenery is honestly presented ( obvious for anybody that knows our existing products, if wasn't already obvious from the price ), as a port from the previous version ( it's even called "V2" on the Home Page!!! ), we could have handled the terminals which were not remade from scratch in two ways:

- Just convert the existing textures as they were, so it would REALLY "look like FSX". Zero effort.

- Do some ACTUAL WORK to create the Parallax textures, which is the most effective way to give you the feeling of depth with almost zero cost on performance.

Quote
I hope that your team can find a way to make this scenery to the standards that we have to expect from FSDT.

This scenery is completely up to "our standards", because it looks massively better than default, it performs massively better than any other big airport out there, and it's priced extremely attractively.

I don't see many differences to our current best selling scenery (Zurich), other than Zurich is converted from a way older FSX product (it came out in 2007, KIAH is from 2014), it's way smaller, has a free alternative in the sim, and the price is the same as KIAH.

juniormafia27

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 698
  • Better You Than Me
Re: KIAH Looks like FSX
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2023, 04:20:52 am »
Stop explaining this an that.  I wasn't speaking for no one else.  I was speaking from my observation.  This airport was just not worth the wait.  All the non-responses to our questions....as far as the status of this airport.  If I would have known it was going to look like this.  I would have never asked my damn self...... I thought I was going to see something different.  Now I said what I said and that is that.  At least the GSX has been improved....although it would be nice to see some of characters walk along the side of the aircraft during push back.  But then again we "BEEN" asking for that.....or at least been on the wishlist.

« Last Edit: June 12, 2023, 12:55:23 am by virtuali »
ASUS Hero Motherboard
Windows 11 64Bit
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-9700K CPU @ 3.60GHz   3.60 GHz
64.0 GB Corsair Vengeance RGB PRO Ram
Corsair 1200 Watt
 Corsair H115i-Water Cooler
NVIDIA RTX-3090TI
Samsung 49 inch Curved Monitor

 FS9, FSX, P3D, MSFS 2020

virtuali

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 50939
    • VIRTUALI Sagl
Re: KIAH Looks like FSX
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2023, 01:04:18 am »
Stop explaining this an that.

It's not your call saying when I should stop.

Quote
I wasn't speaking for no one else.  I was speaking from my observation.

You are entitled to voice your own opinion, even if it's wrong. I'm entitled to reply, but the difference is, I post for you (which seem to have failed to look at the airport carefully enough), but to offer an opposing view that might be useful for others as well.

Quote
This airport was just not worth the wait.

Again, your are surely entitled to have an opinion, but the moment you post it, you should be prepared to have it contested with facts.


Quote
All the non-responses to our questions....as far as the status of this airport

I don't know what you are trying to say here. It has always been clear this was going to be a port. An exceptional good one, with massive  improvements, not a plain port, as everybody can see.

Quote
If I would have known it was going to look like this.

I don't think we ever said anywhere this would have been a completely remade from scratch airport. If that wasn't already obvious from the price.

Quote
I thought I was going to see something different.

What's really shocking here, is you don't see HOW MUCH KIAH IS different. Makes me wonder what was the point spending countless of hours improving models, textures, adding tons of stuff that WAS NOT THERE in the FSX version, adding many features never seen before in any scenery, and doing it without compromising fps, at a steal price to begin with.

juniormafia27

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 698
  • Better You Than Me
Re: KIAH Looks like FSX
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2023, 05:50:41 am »
"It's not your call saying when I should stop."

It was a retorical statement.

"You are entitled to voice your own opinion, even if it's wrong. I'm entitled to reply, but the difference is, I post for you (which seem to have failed to look at the airport carefully enough), but to offer an opposing view that might be useful for others as well."

I looked at it close enough to call it trash.  Apparently I am not the only one that feels the same way

"Again, your are surely entitled to have an opinion, but the moment you post it, you should be prepared to have it contested with facts."

AGAIN......This was DEFINATELY not worth the wait!




Port or no Port.....this was a terrible one.....Go look at KHOU(Houston Hobby Airport) just releast by Texan Simulations.  That runs circles around your "PORT" with all the "UP GRADES".  If this is what we can expect from your next ports......or you trying to recycle your past airports.  I will be the first not buying.

 I hope to god that someone else redoes KIAH cause this one, to me, is UNEXCEPTALBE......even for a $10 port
ASUS Hero Motherboard
Windows 11 64Bit
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-9700K CPU @ 3.60GHz   3.60 GHz
64.0 GB Corsair Vengeance RGB PRO Ram
Corsair 1200 Watt
 Corsair H115i-Water Cooler
NVIDIA RTX-3090TI
Samsung 49 inch Curved Monitor

 FS9, FSX, P3D, MSFS 2020

CX 747-400

  • Beta tester
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 281
Re: KIAH Looks like FSX
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2023, 07:45:49 am »
Quote
- Performance. We are better of ANY big airport here, and it's not the scenery is "sparse", it's just very well optimized so it's not just performance, it's the combination of performance/detail/airport size.

Not with KIAH you are not better than any other big airport. Flighbeams Denver is a far superior scenery compared to KIAH (If you want to compare big airports). Better texturing, detail, performance..... Same with Drzewiecki Designs Newark airport and I can name a few other large airports that are better.

Quote
- Proper "AFCAD", with proper airline codes, correct parking positions, and no errors. Too many sceneries out there, even the one that cost way more than KIAH, are distributed with lots of errors in the airport layout, which you might not notice normally, but they become obvious when you use GSX, and the usual response is if GSX is behaving bad, it's GSX's fault, when in fact the real issue they are selling faulty product that would cause problems to both airplane AI and ground services AI but since nobody really cares about default ground vehicles and it's easy to blame weird airplane AI behaviors to the MSFS AI engine, those issues are never fixed. KIAH is basically flawless from this point of view.

Proper airline codes and parking....Really? Is that why I have Air France, Turkish Airlines, Lion and AeroMexico parking at Terminal A. Then I get Southwest and American at Terminal D.

Term A wrong Airline

Quote
- The price. You just can't ignore the fact KIAH is sold for less than half price of any other large airport out there. The ones that also include the "hidden tax", which would require you to upgrade your video card because in addition to be more expensive, because they just went to far with modeling (or simply failed to optimize it correctly).

You are right, I can not argue about the price. I just wish you would have told us that we were going to pay less and get less with KIAH ahead of time. This way we would not have our normal expectation of an FSDT airport. As for the "Hidden Tax", I have never had that issue. I am still running a GTX270 Super and have no issues with FPS or the texture quality... and that is with most features maxed out.

Quote
I can't post this in public, but if you are interested, I could explain to you in private how some recently released sceneries I'm sure you might say are up to some "high quality standards", are in fact showing an obvious lack of understanding how to optimize a scenery, and they could be much improved, if only the developer took a bit of extra care to that.

Yes please either message me or Email me. I would love to hear about this and just have a chat with you.

Quote
Quote
I really do not like the hotel rooms (day or night), and the interior of the terminal E at night. I can see some sort of Asian signs, and weird looking faces on what I assume are some type of billboard.

This is course highly subjective.  Since this scenery is honestly presented ( obvious for anybody that knows our existing products, if wasn't already obvious from the price ), as a port from the previous version ( it's even called "V2" on the Home Page!!! ), we could have handled the terminals which were not remade from scratch in two ways:

- Just convert the existing textures as they were, so it would REALLY "look like FSX". Zero effort.

- Do some ACTUAL WORK to create the Parallax textures, which is the most effective way to give you the feeling of depth with almost zero cost on performance.

I understand what you are trying to do with the hotel and terminals, but it (in my opinion) didnt work. Is there a way to dim the brightness of the hotel rooms at night? and the inside of Terminal E look like they are from another airport, not Houston. Here are a few screenshots of what I am talking about....

This is the comic book faces and Asian characters inside Terminal E. By the way, the public area of this terminal is not 3 seperate floors. It is large open areas.
TermE Inside Night3

Closer look...
TermE Inside Night2

Here is the windows at the end of Terminal E
TermE End Windows2


Daytime Look...
TermE End Windows

Here is the hotel at night..... The building itself is done very nicely, but the room lighting does not add a sense of depth.
Term B Hotel

Lastly, could you please make the ramp areas brighter at night. Here is in sim....
Term C Dark
Real Life....
Term C Real Life


Quote
Quote
I hope that your team can find a way to make this scenery to the standards that we have to expect from FSDT.

Quote
This scenery is completely up to "our standards", because it looks massively better than default, it performs massively better than any other big airport out there, and it's priced extremely attractively.
I don't see many differences to our current best selling scenery (Zurich), other than Zurich is converted from a way older FSX product (it came out in 2007, KIAH is from 2014), it's way smaller, has a free alternative in the sim, and the price is the same as KIAH.

I understand that creating a scenery and making everyone happy impossible. I guess I just had higher expectations since it was FSDT that was making KIAH and not some newby that doesnt know what they are doing. I guess I have learned my lesson to not expect consistent high-quality products from FSDT. I would have preferred a better-quality airport at a higher price. I think everyone would have.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2023, 01:18:54 am by CX 747-400 »
Jonathan

A part of the Flight Sim world since 1983
-----------------------
MS Windows 10 64bit Home / Intel Kaby Lake i7 @4.2 / ASUS MAX IX Hero Motherboard /Corsair DDR4 16.00G Ram /Nvidia GeForce GTX 1050 Ti