Author Topic: KCLT installed, license activated, but it doesn't appear in the sim  (Read 624 times)

molleh

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 35
Hi there, I just purchased KCLT, downloaded and ran the installer, entered my license key and activated it (which AFAIK was successful) - however upon loading the sim, there are only floating jetways.

I tried looking in the Addon Manager folder to see if there was a way to verify that it was setup and activated correctly, but all I see are Couatl_Updater.exe and Couatl_Updater2.exe. The first exe rapidly does something and disappears before I can see, and the second one says that there is a problem because "settings file D:\Flight Simulator Addons\Addon Manager\couatl\Charlotte Douglas MSFS 1.0.lw.xml not found, license cannot be ferified."

"FSDT Charlotte for MSFS updated."

Any help would be appreciated, thanks :)

edit: OK, I got it working, but there's definitely an issue on the FSDT side, probably with the kclt_msfs_setup.exe you are initially given a link to immediately after purchase.

1) This is a fresh install of Windows 11, all Windows updates current, only one user (me) with admin privileges, and UAC is completely disabled, so this is not a case of "user error."

2) I had no other FSDT products installed yet, so this was the very first FSDT install I tried

3) As mentioned above, the installer appeared to be successful (including license activation) but did not fully install/update/activate the scenery - the symbolic link was placed in my Community folder, and the scenery files appeared correct in the Addon Manager folder, but the scenery didn't load in the sim

4) A little while later I discovered the FSDT e-mail about the Universal Installer in my spam folder, so I un-spammed it, downloading the Universal Installer and ran it. It installed and launched successfully and showed KCLT as being installed and activated; however, when I clicked "Update", it got to around 75% in the process and then threw an exception which I tried to continue through, but had to close the process from Task Manager

5) I re-launched the Universal Installer and tried updating again; this time it seemed to be successful, and after loading into the sim, the scenery appears to work correctly as well

A couple of additional points which aren't really errors/bugs, but recommendations on my part: both the KCLT stand-alone installer and Universal Installer, er, installer, place shortcuts on the desktop for launching the UI or Live Update - but these shortcuts ONLY appear on the desktop, so if you delete them (as I always do, since I never keep icons on my desktop - everything is accessed from the start menu) you completely lose the ability to start the Universal Installer since it isn't actually a separate .exe you can just run from the Addon Manager folder, but a special command line parameter on CouatlUpdater.exe. Ideally IMHO there should be shortcuts added to the Start menu (e.g. "FSDreamTeam\Universal Installer" and "FSDreamTeam\Live Update", *and* there should be a separate .exe (named to make them synonymous with Universal Installer and Live Update, instead of CouatlUpdater and CouatlUpdater2 which have no logical connection).

Basically this was a pretty rough experience as a "new" user (well, I've purchased FSDT products before, but haven't used them in quite a while, and only for FSX and P3D.) By comparison, purchasing and installing via OrbX Central or Contrail with some other products I've recently purchased was a lot slicker and confidence inspiring.

Please don't take offense, I only mean this as genuine constructive criticism and advice to make your products better (and make me more likely to recommend them to my flight simming friends!)

PS: Very very much looking forward to GSX for MSFS!
« Last Edit: June 03, 2022, 08:10:33 pm by molleh »

molleh

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 35
Re: KCLT installed, license activated, but it doesn't appear in the sim
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2022, 08:29:55 pm »
I noticed the textures on some of the KCLT terminals/buildings disappeared on (what appeared to be) the closest LOD, so I quit the sim and tried to update again via the Universal Installer. I was met with an unhandled exception again. Here's the text from it:

Code: [Select]
See the end of this message for details on invoking
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

************** Exception Text **************
System.InvalidOperationException: Collection was modified; enumeration operation may not execute.
   at System.ThrowHelper.ThrowInvalidOperationException(ExceptionResource resource)
   at System.Collections.Generic.List`1.Enumerator.MoveNextRare()
   at System.Collections.Generic.List`1.Enumerator.MoveNext()
   at Couatl_Updater2.Program.UpdateSelected()
   at Couatl_Updater2.FrmMain.UpdateSelectedProducts()
   at Couatl_Updater2.FrmMain.dataGridView1_CellContentClick(Object sender, DataGridViewCellEventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.DataGridView.OnCellContentClick(DataGridViewCellEventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.DataGridView.OnCommonCellContentClick(Int32 columnIndex, Int32 rowIndex, Boolean doubleClick)
   at System.Windows.Forms.DataGridViewCell.OnMouseUpInternal(DataGridViewCellMouseEventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.DataGridView.OnCellMouseUp(DataGridViewCellMouseEventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.DataGridView.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.DataGridView.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)


************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.8.4515.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_C
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v4.0.30319/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
Couatl_Updater2
    Assembly Version: 2.0.8144.25861
    Win32 Version: 2.0.2.23
    CodeBase: file:///D:/Flight%20Simulator%20Addons/Addon%20Manager/Couatl_Updater2.exe
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.8.4395.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_B
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
----------------------------------------
System
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.8.4488.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_C
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.8.4515.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_C
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Core
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.8.4515.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_C
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Core/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Core.dll
----------------------------------------
QlmLicenseLib
    Assembly Version: 12.1.20089.1
    Win32 Version: 12.1.20089.1
    CodeBase: file:///D:/Flight%20Simulator%20Addons/Addon%20Manager/QlmLicenseLib.DLL
----------------------------------------
System.Configuration
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.8.4341.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_C
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Configuration/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Configuration.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Xml
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.8.4161.0 built by: NET48REL1
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Security
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.8.4341.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_C
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Security/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Security.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Management
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.8.4435.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_C
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Management/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Management.dll
----------------------------------------
QlmLicenseLib
    Assembly Version: 12.1.20089.1
    Win32 Version: 12.1.20089.1
    CodeBase: file:///D:/Flight%20Simulator%20Addons/Addon%20Manager/couatl/QlmLicenseLib.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Web.Services
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.8.4161.0 built by: NET48REL1
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Web.Services/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Web.Services.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Data
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.8.4455.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_C
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_32/System.Data/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Data.dll
----------------------------------------
Accessibility
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.8.4161.0 built by: NET48REL1
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/Accessibility/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/Accessibility.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Numerics
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.8.4161.0 built by: NET48REL1
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Numerics/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Numerics.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Runtime.Serialization
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.8.4455.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_C
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Runtime.Serialization/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Runtime.Serialization.dll
----------------------------------------

************** JIT Debugging **************
To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this
application or computer (machine.config) must have the
jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
The application must also be compiled with debugging
enabled.

For example:

<configuration>
    <system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
</configuration>

When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception
will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer
rather than be handled by this dialog box.



molleh

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 35
Re: KCLT installed, license activated, but it doesn't appear in the sim
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2022, 08:44:12 pm »
Images of the texture problem (I realize this may be resolved once the updater can complete without crashing:)

https://i.imgur.com/6hM3yqO.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/iJGTnKW.jpg
« Last Edit: June 04, 2022, 01:54:06 pm by virtuali »

virtuali

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43212
    • VIRTUALI Sagl
Re: KCLT installed, license activated, but it doesn't appear in the sim
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2022, 03:18:03 pm »
There are several issues here:

Missing textures when going close to Terrminal A.

I had a look and, it seems it must have been caused by some quirk in the MSFS SDK, since we pushed a very small update yesterday for KCLT, in preparation for GSX.

It was a very minor update, completely unrelated to Terminal A: a couple of roadblocks on Terminal E were moved to make space for walking passengers. Terminal A was untouched. However, it seems that for some reason, the sim didn't like a .BGL with some objects made with the latest SDK (the E update) mixed with the rest of the scenery compiled with what was likely a previous version. Now, it can't explain why it only affected Terminal A and why it only affected the better LODs but, it was enough to just recompile Terminal A again with the latest SDK, and the problem is gone. I'm sorry we haven't realized it before pushing the update.

The fix is of course already online now.

Your issues with the installer

The "normal" scenery installers will eventually go away, and the Universal Installer will be the one and only way to install MSFS products going forward. The installer links would have expired on Digital River in 30 days in any case so, if you ever required a re-download, you had to use the Universal Installer anyway. In fact, one of the main reason to have the Universal Installer was to fix the issue of Digital River links expiring in 30 days, and the new installer surely solves this problem.

Now, I understand it might have been confusing but, if I understood correctly, the main issue was you didn't get OUR purchase receipt, because it was mistakenly flagged as Spam by your email client. That email explained you have to use the FSDT Universal Installer, which as you confirmed, worked at the first try and successfully installed the product.

To reduce future confusion, we decided to get rid of all links to the "old" installers on Digital River as well so now, new users buying anything from MSFS will get a link to the Universal Installer, so there will be no doubt which one to use, and it's certainly better for everybody to have just one (fairly small) installer that can install, update, manage license, etc. rather than multiple installers. We tested the Universal Installer long enough, and user feedback has been all very positive so, it was time to get rid of the old installers. In fact, we already replaced all the download links with it on Simmarket, we just haven't done it on Digital River until now.

I agree with your suggestion of adding the startup icons to the Windows Start button as well, so you won't risk losing them because you cleanup the Desktop so, the Installer for the Universal installer has been updated as well, to create icons both on the Desktop and on the "Fsdreamteam" group of the Start group.


Your issues with the Updater

This is puzzling. You said you got an exception while updating KCLT, were you using the Update button in the product list, or the "Update 1 selected" button below ? In any case, we posted the latest version of the Universal Installer, which might has some extra fixes, so I would like to hear if it's working for you right now.

molleh

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 35
Re: KCLT installed, license activated, but it doesn't appear in the sim
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2022, 06:08:48 pm »
I agree with your suggestion of adding the startup icons to the Windows Start button as well, so you won't risk losing them because you cleanup the Desktop so, the Installer for the Universal installer has been updated as well, to create icons both on the Desktop and on the "Fsdreamteam" group of the Start group.

Cool, thanks for adding the shortcuts. I'm sure it will reduce support requests for you in the future :) EDIT see below, I actually did not get start menu shortcuts when installing the new version of the UI.

Quote
Your issues with the Updater

This is puzzling. You said you got an exception while updating KCLT, were you using the Update button in the product list, or the "Update 1 selected" button below ? In any case, we posted the latest version of the Universal Installer, which might has some extra fixes, so I would like to hear if it's working for you right now.

OK, so I updated the Universal Installer and experimented a bit. A few things:

1) The fatal exception happens almost every time when I click the "Update" button that is next to the KCLT product listing. I tried every permutation of what to click on and in what order but I couldn't determine anything - it just has about a 90% chance of crashing, but it does rarely get through the update process via that button. Screenshot and text from that specific exception:

https://i.imgur.com/rCwHohS.jpg

Code: [Select]
See the end of this message for details on invoking
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

************** Exception Text **************
System.InvalidOperationException: Collection was modified; enumeration operation may not execute.
   at System.ThrowHelper.ThrowInvalidOperationException(ExceptionResource resource)
   at System.Collections.Generic.List`1.Enumerator.MoveNextRare()
   at System.Collections.Generic.List`1.Enumerator.MoveNext()
   at Couatl_Updater2.Program.UpdateSelected()
   at Couatl_Updater2.FrmMain.UpdateSelectedProducts()
   at Couatl_Updater2.FrmMain.dataGridView1_CellContentClick(Object sender, DataGridViewCellEventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.DataGridView.OnCellContentClick(DataGridViewCellEventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.DataGridView.OnCommonCellContentClick(Int32 columnIndex, Int32 rowIndex, Boolean doubleClick)
   at System.Windows.Forms.DataGridViewCell.OnMouseUpInternal(DataGridViewCellMouseEventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.DataGridView.OnCellMouseUp(DataGridViewCellMouseEventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.DataGridView.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.DataGridView.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)


************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.8.4515.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_C
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v4.0.30319/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
Couatl_Updater2
    Assembly Version: 2.0.8190.26903
    Win32 Version: 2.0.2.25
    CodeBase: file:///D:/Flight%20Simulator%20Addons/Addon%20Manager/Couatl_Updater2.exe
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.8.4395.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_B
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
----------------------------------------
System
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.8.4488.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_C
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.8.4515.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_C
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Data
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.8.4455.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_C
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_32/System.Data/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Data.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Core
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.8.4515.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_C
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Core/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Core.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Xml
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.8.4161.0 built by: NET48REL1
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll
----------------------------------------
QlmLicenseLib
    Assembly Version: 12.1.20089.1
    Win32 Version: 12.1.20089.1
    CodeBase: file:///D:/Flight%20Simulator%20Addons/Addon%20Manager/QlmLicenseLib.DLL
----------------------------------------
System.Numerics
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.8.4161.0 built by: NET48REL1
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Numerics/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Numerics.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Configuration
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.8.4341.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_C
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Configuration/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Configuration.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Security
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.8.4341.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_C
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Security/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Security.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Management
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.8.4435.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_C
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Management/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Management.dll
----------------------------------------
QlmLicenseLib
    Assembly Version: 12.1.20089.1
    Win32 Version: 12.1.20089.1
    CodeBase: file:///D:/Flight%20Simulator%20Addons/Addon%20Manager/couatl/QlmLicenseLib.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Web.Services
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.8.4161.0 built by: NET48REL1
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Web.Services/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Web.Services.dll
----------------------------------------
Accessibility
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.8.4161.0 built by: NET48REL1
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/Accessibility/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/Accessibility.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Runtime.Serialization
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.8.4455.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_C
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Runtime.Serialization/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Runtime.Serialization.dll
----------------------------------------

************** JIT Debugging **************
To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this
application or computer (machine.config) must have the
jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
The application must also be compiled with debugging
enabled.

For example:

<configuration>
    <system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
</configuration>

When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception
will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer
rather than be handled by this dialog box.

2) The other two update buttons ('Update All' and 'Update 1 Selected') don't crash when I use either one, or at least didn't crash in any of my attempts so far. However, it's confusing how the UI is laid out here. The window opens with the first item in the list of sceneries 'selected' (Mount Dauphin) without me clicking on anything.  And because the color of the selected line item is very similar to the main window, it wasn't clear to me that it was 'selected'. This led to me clicking the 'Update 1 Selected' button but getting confused when the all I saw was a brief view of the progress bars and then nothing. Once I figured out that the first line item is always selected, and the brief appearance/disappearance of the progress bars is because I (obviously) don't have that scenery installed, it makes sense - but it's confusing at first, and I can pretty much guarantee you it'll be confusing to other users as well.

Probably it would be best to not selected a scenery in the list by default, and change it so it's clearer which one is selected once the user clicks/selects it. Also, the 'Update 1 Selected' button should either be grayed out or just not appear at all if a scenery is selected that the user doesn't own/is not installed yet.

EDIT Oh, just realized that the Universal Installer did not update itself to the new version you posted - I had to go to the FSDT website and download it from there. Is that the intended method? If so, I'd really recommend making the installer itself download updated versions when they're available, or at the very least give the user a pop up alert to the newer version and a link to download it. If that *is* how it's supposed to work, it didn't (at least on my end - had to go and get it manually.) However, the behavior I described above seems unchanged.

Also, it's still not giving me start menu shortcuts, just the two on the desktop on install.

3) Lastly, there's a 'Setup - FSDreamTeam Live Update' window that pops up whenever I start the Universal Installer that stays frozen there until I close the UI. This might be expected behavior from your end, but as a user, it seems like something's not working as intended because you normally only see that type of installer window one time - when installing the app itself, not every time when running it. Pic just to clarify what I'm talking about:

https://i.imgur.com/1y87gvQ.jpg

Anyway, thanks for you time! I totally agree with FSDT moving to a universal installer/front end.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2022, 06:15:55 pm by virtuali »

virtuali

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43212
    • VIRTUALI Sagl
Re: KCLT installed, license activated, but it doesn't appear in the sim
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2022, 07:33:32 pm »
However, it's confusing how the UI is laid out here. The window opens with the first item in the list of sceneries 'selected' (Mount Dauphin) without me clicking on anything.  And because the color of the selected line item is very similar to the main window, it wasn't clear to me that it was 'selected'. This led to me clicking the 'Update 1 Selected' button but getting confused when the all I saw was a brief view of the progress bars and then nothing. Once I figured out that the first line item is always selected, and the brief appearance/disappearance of the progress bars is because I (obviously) don't have that scenery installed, it makes sense - but it's confusing at first, and I can pretty much guarantee you it'll be confusing to other users as well.

There's an old saying in UI design that, regardless how much effort you put into something that looks perfectly logical to you, somebody WILL find confusing it anyway. So, you think it's JUST a matter of making the selection color lighter ?

In any case, there was a reason why the first product in the list was selected by default, and it's because in P3D it's GSX, which is *by far* our most popular product so, lots of users only know GSX and identify FSDT with GSX, and assume the updater is a "GSX updater" so, THEY didn't know what to do, so we pre-select the first product on the list (GSX), so they could just click Update.

But generally, at least until GSX for MSFS is out (it will surely be at the top of the list), it's best not select anything at start.

Quote
Probably it would be best to not selected a scenery in the list by default, and change it so it's clearer which one is selected once the user clicks/selects it.

Ok, it's done in the current version that is online now. At start nothing is selected, and the selection color is lighter now. Also, you can go back to "no selection" by clicking outside the list.

Quote
Also, the 'Update 1 Selected' button should either be grayed out or just not appear at all if a scenery is selected that the user doesn't own/is not installed yet.

That's changed as well in the current version. The "Update Selected" button won't be active if you have selected something you don't have. If you select multiple products at once, it will be active only if *all* of them are installed.


Quote
Oh, just realized that the Universal Installer did not update itself to the new version you posted - I had to go to the FSDT website and download it from there. Is that the intended method?

Obviously not. The whole point of having a two step process ( which had the side effect you didn't like as the extra window in the background ), is precisely so the update can "Update itself". The extra window you see is the 1st stage update, which doesn't do *anything*, other than checking if there's a new version of the 2nd stage updater to download, which does the actual work, so it will be automatically started by the 1st stage.

Also, with the updater split in two, there would be any need to notify an update, ask you if you want to download the new version, and then quit and restart, each time there's an update.

So no, it's not normal you had to download the installer again.

Quote
Also, it's still not giving me start menu shortcuts, just the two on the desktop on install.

Something's wrong with your downloads, because the current version of the installer we have online now, surely does create the two extra icons in the Start button menu. Note that, because you are not downloading from our server, but from a cache replicated on Cloudflare network of 260+ nodes, it's possible your local Cloudflare node still hasn't replicated the updates we just released. Usually, it doesn't take much, like 10-15 minutes or few hours, but in some cases it might be up to 24 hours before all nodes gets all the updates.

This would explain why the updater didn't update itself and why the installer didn't create the extra icons: you are still using the old version.

So, try again now, the changes to the UI should be easy to recognize and, in any case, the updater .EXE version ( and the installer version ) is 2.0.2.26. Let me know if you are getting it, and if it fixed the crashes you had with the update from the list.

It might be possible to get rid of the 1st window by Terminating it from the 2nd program, but it's not something I'm sure it will always work, there might be unexpected side effects, because the child process is killing is caller so, I need to be sure this is something safe to do, under all possible permission and account settings.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2022, 07:40:02 pm by virtuali »

molleh

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 35
Re: KCLT installed, license activated, but it doesn't appear in the sim
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2022, 08:21:49 pm »
It's definitely the current version 2.0.2.26, but it still crashes when clicking the Update button on the "KCLT" line item and does not create Start menu items. I also tried deleting everything in Addon Manager, everything in my AppData\Local\Temp folder, everything in AppData\Roaming\virtuali, and re-downloading & running the UI installer from FSDT.com, but the behavior is exactly the same:

https://i.imgur.com/GEEFnWB.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/X6wO3VG.jpg

I can tell you're getting slightly defensive and I understand where you're coming from - but please understand I'm doing this to help *you* as much as I am getting help for myself, and I've already put a not insignificant amount of time into laying everything out as clearly and as helpfully as possible.

edit: Not to pile on too many suggestions at once, but I'd like at least the option (even if it's not default and not suggested) to have the sceneries placed directly in my community folder. I know symbolic links into that folder are a good solution for many but personally I'd prefer to just have the scenery there, even if it's a copy at the expense of my hard drive space. :)
« Last Edit: June 04, 2022, 10:48:17 pm by virtuali »

virtuali

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43212
    • VIRTUALI Sagl
Re: KCLT installed, license activated, but it doesn't appear in the sim
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2022, 10:54:30 pm »
It's definitely the current version 2.0.2.26, but it still crashes when clicking the Update button on the "KCLT" line item and does not create Start menu items.

You posted a screenshot showing the version of the updater, but the updater is not supposed or able to create any icons so, even if the updater can update itself, to get the new icons you must redownload the Universal Installer *INSTALLER*

I'm trying to figure out the crash: is it possible you selected another product while the download was in progress ? That what the error message seems to say. In that case, you might want to try it again, I've posted another update that should cover this case.

Quote
I can tell you're getting slightly defensive and I understand where you're coming from - but please understand I'm doing this to help *you* as much as I am getting help for myself, and I've already put a not insignificant amount of time into laying everything out as clearly and as helpfully as possible.

Now I'm really losing you. Fact is, ALL your suggestions has been promptly taken care of, with the utmost speed, on a weekend too. Now, perhaps I might be really naïve here but, I was expecting a completely different attitude, instead I'm begin wrongly accused of being defensive.

Quote
Not to pile on too many suggestions at once, but I'd like at least the option (even if it's not default and not suggested) to have the sceneries placed directly in my community folder. I know symbolic links into that folder are a good solution for many but personally I'd prefer to just have the scenery there, even if it's a copy at the expense of my hard drive space

Sorry, no, this won't come. The whole installer/updater is designed around the concept that's nothing is in the Community folder, so the installer and the updater will only work on ITS OWN folder, which makes it way more reliable.

In addition to that, lots of our products share files ( it might not be entirely apparent now, in MSFS, but it will be when GSX will came out), for example the whole jetway library is installed in GSX, but it's used by all our sceneries, or the animated passenger library is also used by some sceneries regardless of GSX, but is installed in GSX, which means all products files and fallbacks are made under the assumption all files are in a specific position in relation to each other.

So, while you are completely free to choose any drive/folder for the FSDT installation, so you are not losing any flexibility, all FSDT products must be together, and the updater should be there as well.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2022, 11:59:48 pm by virtuali »

molleh

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 35
Re: KCLT installed, license activated, but it doesn't appear in the sim
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2022, 11:49:21 pm »
Yes, I'm talking about the Universal Installer installer. No, of course I'm not trying to update the wrong scenery, as you can't click "Update" on scenery you don't have installed anyway.

The current version of FSDT_Universal_Installer.exe is 1.0.26 as viewed in Properties -> Details. The change log when running the installer shows 1.0.25 as the latest version (with update notes.) I am still 100% sure it isn't placing a folder and/or shortcuts in the Start menu, just the two desktop ones.

Please take a sec and let your temper cool off. I'm not upset in any way nor am I somehow placing "blame" on you or your software, I'm literally just trying to help you solve a software issue that I can literally guarantee you is not user error and will surely rear its head in the future as more users inevitably start using your installer when GSX releases. Are you or any of your testers running the latest build of Windows 11? If I had to guess that's the relevant variable, unless of course you are as well, in which case it might come down to .net side by side configuration or something like that, since I haven't done anything on that front aside from the cumulative .net updates that are downloaded with Windows Update.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2022, 11:55:50 pm by molleh »

virtuali

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43212
    • VIRTUALI Sagl
Re: KCLT installed, license activated, but it doesn't appear in the sim
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2022, 12:17:21 am »
Yes, I'm talking about the Universal Installer installer

I had to ask, because your screenshot showed the updater.exe version, not the installer version .

Quote
No, of course I'm not trying to update the wrong scenery,

Nobody accusing you of updating the "wrong scenery" ( who's being defensive now ? ), I just asked if you clicked somewhere else on the products list, not necessarily with the intention of doing anything.

Quote
as you can't click "Update" on scenery you don't have installed anyway.

And that's precisely why I asked if you SELECTED another product while a download was in progress . I never said anything about "clicking update on something you don't have installed". But just selecting WAS possible, you COULD just select a product while an update was in progress and yes, doing this I COULD replicate your crash and, if you read my last post, I think the latest version, just posted should fix this as well.

virtuali

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43212
    • VIRTUALI Sagl
Re: KCLT installed, license activated, but it doesn't appear in the sim
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2022, 12:25:47 am »
In addition to that, I found the reason why I could see the icons in the Start menu being created and you couldn't: I had GSX installed, which places a link in the Start program group for its manual, and I found the KCLT icons were created only if the fsdreamteam group was already created by a previous GSX install, otherwise they wouldn't, if no fsdreamteam group existed.

That's now fixed as well, in the very latest version of the installer, that is 1.0.27, which is online now.

molleh

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 35
Re: KCLT installed, license activated, but it doesn't appear in the sim
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2022, 01:23:53 am »
In addition to that, I found the reason why I could see the icons in the Start menu being created and you couldn't: I had GSX installed, which places a link in the Start program group for its manual, and I found the KCLT icons were created only if the fsdreamteam group was already created by a previous GSX install, otherwise they wouldn't, if no fsdreamteam group existed.

That's now fixed as well, in the very latest version of the installer, that is 1.0.27, which is online now.

OK, nice - I downloaded 1.0.27 and can confirm it now creates the Start menu entries. :)

Also, I think I figured out specifically what causes the unhandled exception. If I start an update within Universal Installer, but move the mouse over another product and it highlights that product (NO clicking, just hovering) it creates the unhandled exception.

I made a desktop recording of the complete install process from a totally "fresh" install (unlinked from UI before emptying Addon Manager, virtuali, temp folders) so I could show you visually what was going on, and that's when I figured this out. I'm sure you don't need to see it at this point but I'll link the video here anyway, just in case (I run 4k at 100% scaling so if you're not on a large 4k screen it might be somewhat difficult to make out until Youtube fully processes it, hehe):

Quote
https://youtu.be/wvsjbWrXOZQ


« Last Edit: June 05, 2022, 01:36:45 am by virtuali »

virtuali

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43212
    • VIRTUALI Sagl
Re: KCLT installed, license activated, but it doesn't appear in the sim
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2022, 12:32:27 pm »
Also, I think I figured out specifically what causes the unhandled exception. If I start an update within Universal Installer, but move the mouse over another product and it highlights that product (NO clicking, just hovering) it creates the unhandled exception.

I can't reproduce that, regardless how much I hover the mouse, I can't get the crash anymore. I could before, when *clicking* on something during a download, but not after the latest fix.


Quote
I made a desktop recording of the complete install process from a totally "fresh" install (unlinked from UI before emptying Addon Manager, virtuali, temp folders) so I could show you visually what was going on, and that's when I figured this out. I'm sure you don't need to see it at this point but I'll link the video here anyway,

Why you are sure I don't need it ? I sure do and, while the video clearly show the error doesn't happen most of the time ( considering how many times you clicked update in different situations ) , something VERY weird is happening just before the error, at 4:58, and it's the fact when you hover the mouse outside the updating product, the light selection bar has selected TWO products at once.

This is normally possible, we do allow multi-selection but, the thing is, in order to recognized a multi-selection on a standard data grid control like that, you MUST either Shift-Click or Ctrl-Click on the rows. That's not something we need code, it's an automatic behavior of the control, I have no idea how you could possibly trigger a multi-selection just by hovering, could possibly be a Windows 11 bug/quirk ?

I still haven't risked updating to Windows 11 yet, because we are in the final rush to release GSX, so nobody at FSDT can afford to lose any time and, if something goes bad, reinstalling the whole system, it's just not safe now.

In any case, I tried another fix "in the blind" ( since I cannot replicate your crash ), and added an extra check in another part of the program that deals with mouse moves, even if it's totally unrelated to the update process, it's the only place in which mouse movement is checked.

molleh

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 35
Re: KCLT installed, license activated, but it doesn't appear in the sim
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2022, 04:12:25 pm »
Looks like your fix does prevent the exception  8) I uploaded a video to show a bit more specifically the "multi-highlighting on hover" behavior - it only happens when clicking the in-line 'Update' button, none of the other update buttons reproduce that same behavior. The exception is gone but anyway I made the video in case it might help you figure out the selection oddity:

Quote
https://youtu.be/SyDg1-1iJzM

I'm glad we could work together to make Universal Installer hopefully a bit more robust and reduce FSDT's workload once GSX is out in the wild.